Coffee House

Turkey’s assault on press freedom is the act of a dictatorship, not a democracy

5 March 2016

8:00 PM

5 March 2016

8:00 PM

When Vice News journalist Mohammed Ismael Rasool was detained by Turkish authorities last August, I wrote to a friend in Turkey to ask for his help. I remarked in passing on the worsening situation for press freedom in the country: ‘Yes, getting much worse,’ he replied. ‘At some stage they will come after us, too. Then we will need your help.’ This prediction of darker times ahead proved right much more quickly than any of us foresaw. On Friday, after months of arrests and detentions of prominent journalists, the country hit a new low: courts seized control of opposition newspaper Zaman, one of Turkey’s leading media outlets. Police fired teargas and used water cannon on protestors gathered outside the paper’s building. This morning, Zaman’s editor-in-chief was fired. Journalists have been locked out of their email accounts.

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These are the actions of a dictatorship, not a democracy – and the writing has been on the wall for some time. For months, we have protested as the government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan stepped up the arrest of journalists whose work was deemed a threat to his rule. Last year, Can Dündar, the editor­-in­-chief of the Turkish daily Cumhuriyet, and his Ankara bureau chief, Gül, were arrested and charged with spying and terrorism for publishing evidence of arms deliveries by the Turkish intelligence services to Islamist groups in Syria. Others have been charged with ‘insulting the President’ – a crime that can land you up to four years in jail. Last week, it was revealed that almost 2,000 people had been prosecuted for presidential insults since Erdogan took office in 2014. All this from a country seeking membership of the European Union.

Most people who want to get into a club try to abide by its rules. But Erdogan has been able to get away with his squeeze on the media precisely because his EU counterparts have been voluble in their silence over this slide to authoritarianism. This needs to stop. A free press is, as Nelson Mandela termed it, the ‘lifeblood’ of democracy – without it, democracy is simply a façade. No press can operate freely if a journalist or editor must weigh, each day, the possibility of jail or sacking for reporting the news. No commentator should have to mull the possibility of four years in jail for criticising the government. It seems so self evident as to be almost fatuous to restate, but it is something we have taken for granted too long and at our peril.

The sight of Turkish police using tear gas and water cannon on the Zaman protestors should be a wake up call for all of those who thought press freedom was a battle fought and won long ago in our own democracies. Because the warning signs were all there in Turkey and few paid attention. We must not make the same mistake elsewhere. Poland, for example, has just announced new restrictive media laws that have so far garnered little popular attention. Hungary is already well down that path. We need to be far more outspoken on these apparent smaller attacks on the press, otherwise the closure of Zaman will not be an isolated case – neither in Turkey, nor elsewhere in this region. We can start by making it clear to Erdogan that the wider world condemns utterly this action.

Jodie Ginsberg is the CEO of Index on Censorship, a campaigning organisation for freedom of expression.

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Show comments
  • HFC

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/35745756

    A little off topic perhaps but I don’t suppose the Turkish media have made much of this affair and the fact that the Turkish gold medalist in the same Olympic 1500m race has been banned for eight years – after having been cleared by the Turkish authorities.

    Clean Olympics? Never, as long as these third world dictatorships are permitted to take part.

    Clean politics? See above.

  • michael

    If Turkey gets free movement the Austrians will be out before we are.

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  • Chamber Pot

    Poland is nothing like Turkey and Jodie Ginsberg should not be so dishonest as to suggest it. Poland has a popularly elected government who enjoy massive support, and those that it ousted were by and large corrupted by the EU and their remaining placemen in the media, the judiciary, and the bureaucracy evidently seek to frustrate the will of the people.

    Poland has a long history of resisting foreign oppression and resisting the diktats of the EU is not totalitarian on the contrary it is the vigorous expression of democracy and we must support it in the teeth of the lies and insults being flung at the Poles by Brussels for their ‘impudence’.

    • E.I.Cronin

      Too right CP. They’re an inspiring example of a nation that has rejected point blank the sinister ethnic/cultural/political cleansing programme that’s now a global disaster. Polish nationalism is a hardy species. Good on them, I hope L&J enjoy long term support.

  • Jab

    Is there much difference between the U.K and Turkey ? We have little freedom of the press anymore, I seem to recall Andrew Gillighan being sacked by the BBC for telling the truth about Tony Blairs weapons of mass destruction whilst journalists like William Shawcross who almost salivated in support of this destructive war like became head of the charities commission.The British are good at hippocracy.
    Berlusconi destroyed the Italian media and then one by one european countries have also been shackled by p.c extremists and cheap, crony journalism.Maybe we will see rebellion if people wake up in time, otherwise the future looks bleak.

  • GoJebus

    You don’t say!

  • johnhenry

    “These are the actions of a dictatorship, not a democracy – and the writing has been on the wall for some time.”

    For some time? I’ve not read this article yet and probably won’t; but I have to ask: what has the author been smoking these past three decades that she’s missed the slapdown of free comment by just about every major news organ?

  • The Masked Marvel

    Good thing those racist Islamophobes didn’t stop Turkey from being brought into the EU like our betters have recommended, eh? Er…..

    • trobrianders

      Every non-white knows the vilest racists reside on the Left.

  • Baron

    Baron blames Putin for the takeover of the paper.

    If only the KGB Colonel agreed for the establishment of a no-fly zone over Syria, avoided hitting the supply routes from Turkey to the Syrian jihadists, focused instead on killing the Kurds rather than the Allah inspired ISIL freedom fighters there would be no need for Erdogan to nationalise Zaman. Simples.

    • sidor

      The situation is even more simple: both the Turkish and the US policy in the ME is privatised by the Saudis. Insh Allah.

  • sidor

    Turkish democracy sounds as funny as Saudi vodka. The article is entirely pointless.

  • Margot5000

    Erdogan’s wife’s dress when they visited here should have been a bit of a wake-up call – though there were plenty before that. Is she his only wife by the way or do they do like the rest of the ME – and pick a presentable one for ER’s benefit.

  • Ralph

    Whether by arresting journalists or Leveson those who want to control the press should be be ridiculed even if like Ed Miliband they do it for you.

  • Maniate

    What part of Turkey being a military dictatorship didn’t you understand up till now? This thing with the newspaper is what Turkey is. It is what Turkey has always been.

    • Mc

      Correct. I can’t recall when Turkey ever was a democracy

  • Justice League

    All of the Free Turkish Press Got Arrested for Not Being part of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan War Machine This reminds me of Yugoslavia and Slobdan Milosevic

  • Discuscutter

    Turkey has been semi democratic for a long time.

    • Airey Belvoir

      Erdogan: “Democracy is like a train. You ride it till it gets you where you want to be, and then you get off.”

  • whyayeman

    “Turkey’s assault on press freedom is the act of a dictatorship, not a democracy”
    Jodie Ginsberg

    Given the Law of Attraction which states that “likes attract”, could there be a link between the above and the EU’s keenness to bring Turkey on board, I wonder (:- ?

  • Frank

    The situation in Turkey is deplorable and the leadership seems deeply corrupt.
    Having said which, for Downing Street to have rung the British Chamber of Commerce in order to get it to suspend its Director (for giving his private opinion on Brexit) suggests that Britain is now a complete banana republic dictatorship.
    Quite why the Labour and Lib-Dems parties are happy to go along with this oppression of a dissenting opinion is remarkable. Perhaps they will only take action when Downing Street orders the army to close down the Daily Mail?

  • Bonkim

    Whatever gave you the idea that Turkey is a democracy? Turkey’s history is one of Empire, and then Dictatorships some military. Turkey and the Turkish people always liked strong-arm men to lead them. Democracy in the Western mould is alien to Turks and the rest of the Middle East. There is a huge gap between Western and Eastern Turkey – Most of Eastern and Southern Turkey is medieval in character and culture. Istambul and and the tourist haunts on the Med is not the real Turkey.

  • Tekknocrates

    Wake up. First Iraq, then Syria, now Turkey is about to explode. The Kurds are creating mischief wherever they can get their boots on the ground.

    • trobrianders

      The largest ethnic group without a state. Hmmmm, I wonder why.

  • jeffersonian

    I’d be very interested in hearing what Erdogan’s UK fanclub, including Messrs Dan Hannan and Douglas Carswell, think of the latest developments. Do they still think Turkey should be welcome into (what’s left of) Europe? Should Turkey still be a full member of NATO?

  • Polly Radical

    Don’t worry, folks, Dave is working hard to get them into the EU.

    Nothing could go wrong with that, could it?

    • Sue Smith

      Well, nothing that will affect “Dave” in any way, shape or form.

  • Old Fox

    And this is the country, Turkey, which Merkel hopes to flatter and bribe to deal with the migrants – giving it an incentive to make the crisis worse, of course; which you can be sure it will. An impeccably “liberal” – ie soft left Marxist twerp – was urging us in the Times to accept “new arrivals” – the current euphemism for the advance guard of the great reverse colonisation – by putting them into the armed forces! He wants to give these people guns. Does it not smack horribly of late Rome – danegeld, mercenary armies and home grown decadence?

    • Sue Smith

      Indeed it does.

      Tonight on TV we have the spectacle of the annual “gay Mardi Gras” in Sydney. My husband has said, “why are there so many gays now; they are in record numbers”. I replied,
      “Sodom and Gomorrah”.

      They have Dykes on Bikes and I’ve created a new category: “Scrotes on Floats”.

      And, you know what folks: they now have a new marching group, “gay kids – the children of gays and those who think they might be gay”.

      ROME BURNS and the citizens play with the iPhones.

      • Old Fox

        I can see what you’re getting at. Assuming that inverted sexualities arise from mental disorder – a thought-crime, of course; and assuming that mental disorders proliferate as the normative boundaries evaporate along with the confidence of a given society, the end times will – possibly – be characterised by larger and larger numbers of homosexuals. Before anyone screams “Fascist!” at these observations, remember they are tentative; recall that I do not blame anyone or propose restrictions on liberty – I merely diagnose.

        • Sue Smith

          Screaming “Fascist” is, of course, just another form of bullying and censorship.

          I hear what you say. As to opposing ‘restrictions on liberty’ I do have to draw the line on those under 18 years of age, who have no advocates and who are at the mercy of predatory acolytes of political correctness.

          • Old Fox

            I am inclined to agree. The tolerance of twenty years ago worked well. The approval of today does damage.

            • Sue Smith

              Yes, Old Fox, and when it hits the fan they’ll respond like a typical cultural marxist/Lefty – blame the Right and then yell, “Ooooh, look over there”!!

          • FMA

            Screaming “Fascist” is, of course, just another form of bullying and censorship.

            But it’s A-OK to label someone with that jolly old Nazi-derived term “cultural Marxist”?

            • BritishPatriot

              Please be so kind as to explain why the fact that a phrase was originally coined by the Third Reich’s propaganda machine (and later translated into English by a crazy psychopath) should somehow make it unacceptable to use?

            • trobrianders

              What do you call them?

      • The Masked Marvel

        The impression of homosœxuals being out there “in record numbers” could be due the vast majority of them being ‘out’ and no longer pretending to be straight and being in false marriages, lying to their husbands/wives and children, whilst living a double life in secret. It could be that the number of homosœxuals is no greater than in the past, only now they’re allowed to be more honest about it. This neither condones nor condemns the orientation.

        • LittleRedRidingHood

          More like drug pushers. I’ve known too many people be pushed to “try it, you might like it”. Hedonistic!
          It’s like they are actively proselytizing, which is why I’m against it being pushed on our kids.
          Now before you all start screaming homophobe, I have no problems at all with gays, shock horror, there are even a few in my family and they are fantastic people, but there is a time and place and it is up to me as a parent to choose the right time to discuss this with my 5 year old, not the state or some LGBTXfeckinYZ activist.

          • The Masked Marvel

            I agree with your last sentence entirely. Indeed, there are a number of topics parents ought to have the lead on before Progressive teachers get their claws into children. Having said that, homosœxuals are wont to flirt with someone they fancy as much as straight people, but it is obviously perceived differently when they do it to someone not playing for the same side, as it were. Would a black man chatting up a white woman be a sign of him trying to proselytize for miscegenation? Or is it just that he finds her attractive without any larger meaning?

            • LittleRedRidingHood

              Depends. If you clearly state you are straight and he still continues. Makes you wonder how he’d approach youngsters who are less worldly wise.

        • Sue Smith

          I’ve factored in that situation already, but its the sheer numbers which are staggering. In my own extended family we have 6 out of 47 (my father’s side and my mother’s side and my own family and that of my in-laws) with 1 still ‘doubtful’!! (And 1 cousin was divorced because her husband was gay when they married.)

          So, that’s higher than 10% in the case of our family – nowhere near the less than 10% always touted in the media. And in two families I know there are 2 lesbians and 2 homosexual men.

          A genetic dead end. Not much to celebrate there.

          • The Masked Marvel

            I didn’t say anything about celebrating it. The divorced cousin is an example of what I was saying. And nothing you say here really contradicts my comment, does it?

    • Sue Smith

      Oh dear, some people are dumb and make themselves doubly so when going into print. A variation of a poem by John Donne, “The Triple Fool”:

      “I am two fools, I know;
      For loving and for saying so in rhyming poetry”.

      Change the words a bit and you get the idea.

  • Sue Smith

    Let’s not be too precious here; the whole of the EU is run by a dictatorship. Who consulted the people to democratically decide whether or not to admit millions of ‘refugees’? Who chose to suppress material about the Cologne sexual assaults, and also in Scandinavia? Who with-holds stories from the press because they don’t agree with the message; who overturns democratic decisions by going to a Supreme or High Court and has these overturned; who punishes dissent by going to court over some “Discrimination” law; what outside international authority punishes individual countries because they are believed to be in breach of somebody’s ‘human rights’. ON AND ON AND ON IT GOES and the people don’t seem to care any more.

  • Malcolm Stevas

    Why would anyone be surprised? Far too many for far too long have wanted desperately to imagine Turkey as some sort of idealised Islamic country in which the primitive desert religion had been tamed through a Muslim Enlightenment – an almost European democracy. Worse, too many, including our own Prime Minister, have advocated EU membership for this large Asian country of 75 million inhabitants, nearly all of them Muslim. The relatively sophisticated citizens of Ankara or Istanbul, and the Europeanised service-industry employees in holiday resorts, are not typical of the millions of deeply traditional Muslim peasants in the hinterland. Within recent decades Turks were kidnapping their political opponents and torturing them to death… This is the country for whose inhabitants it is proposed to waive Schengen visa restrictions.
    Keep the place at arm’s length, and don’t trust it an inch – especially regarding the migrants.

    • Donafugata

      All that and not too bothered about human rights – in the traditional sense of the word – that is.
      (Think ‘Midnight Express’ rather than rows over gay wedding cake.)

  • Margot5000

    Any word from Norman Stone – one-time Spectator contributor – enthusiastic promoter of Turkey joining the EU – and denier of the Armenian genocide? Or can’t he get his copy out now?

  • dickhut

    The luminaries of ‘Hacked Off’ should take note – any curb on the freedom of the press set in law gives any subsequent, less democratic regimes the loophole they need to squeeze press freedom more.

  • London Calling

    John Longworth. ..?

  • Tamerlane

    So Turkey should feel right at home in the EU then.

  • Rob Centros

    These are our “buddies” in NATO. Supporting ISIS and Al Nusra, murdering Kurds, and arresting and framing opposition leaders. Time for “regime change” in Turkey. (Oh, except this dictator is on “our” side, isn’t he? — kind of like the oppressive, head chopping leaders of Saudi Arabia, who are also our “buddies.”)

  • Muttley

    This is just Turkey making the necessary reforms to qualify for EU membership. Maybe they are doing it in their own way, but they need to show commitment to clamping down on freedom of speech before Erdogan can be allowed into the EU club.

  • misomiso

    Like its really going to do anything.

    You think president erdogan is going to listen to the British Press?

  • Nick

    And our western leaders want to integrate Turkey into Europe even though they know the Turks are assisting ISIS,bumping off political opposition and allowing the free movement of refugees and terrorists into Europe.

    And again the Turkish government is suppressing their press.

    Am I flipping missing something here?

    What possible attraction do the Turks have?

    • E.I.Cronin

      Frightening isn’t it – WFC has a great point below that the EU may be modelling itself on Erdogan. They fit hand in glove.

      Apparently Merkel’s flies to Ankara to pay obeisance to the Sultan every few weeks. What else is under discussion besides the migrant crises? Merkel’s encouraging Zuckerberg to censor FB; German authorities black out and under-reporting of migrant crime; Denmarks recent selective hate speech laws; Sweden etc come to mind.

      • milford

        Maybe Merkel the Muslim Migration Maniac’s getting some tutoring on how best to rule over her newly arrived citizens.

        • E.I.Cronin

          Snicker. Do you think she dons a headbag before her audience with Erdogan?

          I love that story about Oriana Fallaci interviewing Khomeini and she asks if the chador was compulsory. Ayatollah said ”it’s only for girls or respectable ladies”. Fallaci: ”Thank you. In that case I will take this medieval rag off my head. There. Better.”

        • Sue Smith

          She’s going to be the first one ushered to the gallows!!

          • E.I.Cronin

            The elections are going to be interesting Sue – if the Germans don’t punish the CDU then Islam will obligingly escort an entire people to the gallows. Friends of the family were in Hamburg and the wife had a nasty encounter with a dunklere Gesichtsfarbe. She’s fine, luckily, as so many German women and children were not so lucky.

            They no longer support the Refugees Welcome movement. Incredible that some people actually have to come face to face with assault before observing reality.

            • Sue Smith

              I was in Hamburg this time last year, at the Senator Hotel right near the Hauptbahnhof; it was ugly indeed. Scores of men in huge groups, hustling, yelling, drinking, spitting, soliciting. It felt very threatening, but it was exponentially worse in Munich a month or so later. That was horrific.

              No more Europe for us. Let the young people go – they’re the ones with the cash (NOT)!! Europe doesn’t need our tourist Euro. I expect it will take some time yet before people realize and the tourism industry is negatively impacted. But I’ve lived in Austria and cannot bear to see it the way it is now.

              And my beloved Nikolaus Harnoncourt died on the weekend! I’m so glad I saw him at the Musikverein for the last time in May last year.

              • https://chaunceytinker.wordpress.com/ Chauncey Tinker

                It makes my heart bleed to see these countries that gave the world so much beautiful music being overwhelmed by a culture that is so antagonistic towards music.

                • Sue Smith

                  I’m heartbroken about it. Who will love Beethoven, Bach and Brahms after I die!?

              • E.I.Cronin

                Yep – the Eurocrats may be insulated from the cultural, ethnic and criminal impact of their insane policies for now but when tourism nosedives they’ll share the pain. Thanks for completing the picture – am banning my parents from going back to Europe. Too unsafe.

                • Sue Smith

                  Don’t think it gives me a single minute’s pleasure to have to say all of that. I’ve spent about 14 months in Vienna, all up, and even last May it had deteriorated since 2011 – people sleeping rough in Karlsplatz (attracting the most filthy looks from the elegant and proud Viennese!!), muslims everywhere in those tent dresses and coats – walking 5 paces behind their men – and everyone shouting simultaneously on mobile phones in 10 different languages on public transport. And, please, don’t think for a minute that because they say nothing they’re happy about it!! Privately you hear all. Young people usually say nothing – they’ve been brainwashed about how great “cultural diversity” is for their society!!

                • E.I.Cronin

                  A mate just showed me a clip of the initial influx – you’ve probably seen this before but the Swedish kid’s song & dance says it all:

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0hD7IffTJs

                  That’s the strangest thing – Germany must be the first civilisation in human history to submit to invasion out of politeness. Am glad the Austrians are turning the tide. The response to Merkel – take them from Greece to Germany yourself! is exactly what every EU member should be saying to her.

                • Sue Smith

                  You’ve got to have an IQ of 80 or less not to have anticipated all of this!! Stupidity on an industrial scale.

                  I predict this year will see even greater numbers than last year arriving in Europe. I also forecast that pretty much most of the middle east will eventually evacuate to Europe.

      • Sue Smith

        ABSOLUTELY. See my earlier comments.

      • Airey Belvoir

        German and Swedish media are effectively censored on migrant issues. And how many British journalists have been arrested by the Met, house searched etc in the past two years? More than a few. We are hardly lily-white.

        • E.I.Cronin

          Depressingly true. Over here we have journalists being subjected to threats and harassment to the point they’ve had to move. Perhaps the best we can say is we still have freedom of expression as a faint ideal? The EU seems committed to the exact opposite from the beginning.

      • https://chaunceytinker.wordpress.com/ Chauncey Tinker

        They were offering offering Turks access to Europe with relaxed visa restrictions. So Europe gets Turkish migrants in return for less Syrian migrants. Not sure where that’s got to yet.

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12023457/Brussels-to-ease-visa-restrictions-on-Turkey-in-exchange-for-taking-back-deported-migrants.html

        • E.I.Cronin

          Sounds like a great deal doesn’t it?!

          So Merkel, Juncker and all the smiling tools in the pictures are jostling for the position of Europe’s Pasha to the Sultan of Turkey. I love the description of Schengen as the EU’s ”greatest achievement”. He is right in way – if you can call mass population replacement; a rape and crime epidemic and financial collapse an achievement!

          • https://chaunceytinker.wordpress.com/ Chauncey Tinker

            What it sounds like is a shakedown. Accept Islam or you will get Islam, pay the jizya, infidel! Germany having been seriously enriched by previous immigration from Turkey which has resulted in a large population on welfare, the exact same pattern that we see with Islamic immigration throughout Europe.

            I invite you to visit my blog where I am trying to start a debate about the underlying problems that got us into this mess:
            https://chaunceytinker.wordpress.com/

            • E.I.Cronin

              Thanks Chauncey! will have a good read after work.

            • E.I.Cronin

              Enjoyed your dysgenics essays Chauncey, this is a massive issue for governments addicted to vote bribing and the process of weaning us off cradle to grave welfare is going to be painful but unavoidable. The Beveridge quote was spot on.

              • https://chaunceytinker.wordpress.com/ Chauncey Tinker

                Great, thanks for the feedback! Painful but unavoidable indeed, because if we fail the probability of a drift into bankruptcy becomes ever more likely. The chaos that would ensue is terrifying to imagine, and inevitably those on welfare would be the hardest hit. It is in their own best interests to be weaned off welfare.

    • Chudsmania

      Its an attempt to dissolve nation state demographics. The EU has this planned all along. The EU is the lovechild of the Bilderbergers , its a precursor to a one world Govt. Read up on it.

    • Gilbert White

      World gov trumps everything gov?

      • Sue Smith

        Did you really mean “trumps”?

      • Chas Grant

        ??

    • William Haworth

      The Turks can do what they like. EU leaders like Merkel have shown that they disregard or suspend laws when they’re inconvenient; what is different between them and us? It’s only the laws they choose to ignore, and I’m sure there are a few EU leaders looking on in envy.

    • rtj1211

      Cheap labour for multinationals to profit from.

      • Sue Smith

        Not just multinationals, all business – particularly consumables/retail and housing.

    • jeffersonian

      ‘What possible attraction do the Turks have?’

      They hate Western civilisation. Just like Brussels.

  • In2minds

    As for water cannon being used on the Zaman protesters serving as a wake up call, let’s not forget that Hogan-Howe bounced Boris Johnson into buying some of this kit too.

  • trobrianders

    Wake up. Press freedom all over the world is going the way of the dodo because in almost every case the press has become an adjunct of the corrupt elites and its mouthpieces have totally alienated the publics they address. This generation has squandered freedom like spoiled grandkids who squander the fortunes their grandparents built.

    • telemachus

      Not sure why folks are too bothered these days about print press freedom
      All who matter get their information on line

      • dickhut

        In the face of such a fatuous comment, it is difficult to know what to say.

        • MartinWW

          Forgive him. He’s not very bright.

          • Old Fox

            He is a malignant Holocaust denier. Don’t feed him with answers.

        • Chas Grant

          I am almost curious to know what Tele the Troll said, but not curious enough to unblock his comments and see for myself….

          • hippiepooter

            It’s idiocy to savour: “Not sure why folks are too bothered these days about print press freedom All who matter get their information on line”

            • Chas Grant

              Business as usual, then!

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        They are coming for you too Tele.

        • Malcolm Stevas

          Sooner the better..

      • Ron Todd

        If the onward march of cultural marxism takes over the internet we would have no honest source of information. Just approved opinion approved ‘free’ speech and the confusion between what muddle headed liberals/socialists want to be true and what is actually true.

        • telemachus

          Sadly
          We cannot fully take over

      • trobrianders

        What an ignorant comment

    • Sue Smith

      SPOT ON.

    • rtj1211

      Actually, grandparents and parents often squander the life prospects of their children/grandchildren by believing the falsehood that what worked in their generation will work in the children’s/grandchildren’s and crush any resistance to the notion that they might be ignorant twits who life has passed by……

    • Ralph

      The press has always been an adjunct to elites just now with increased access to information many are beginning to notice it.

  • WFC

    Turkey is just further along the road that the EU has started down. The excuses may differ – here it is “hate speech” and celebrities’ hurt feelings – but the road being travelled is the same.

    As Brendan O’Neill puts it:

    “The true instinct behind the Brussels machine is not to bring Europe together. It is to absolve national governments of the burden of having to consult us, the plebs, about important political and social matters, in favour of allowing various experts and cliques in Brussels to discuss and shape such matters on our behalf. The EU’s fuel is not cosmopolitanism — it’s democracy-dodging.

    “The EU doesn’t only trash democracy. It restricts liberty, too. This vast oligarchical entity is, unsurprisingly, hostile to the idea that people should be free to think and say what they please and to live their lives as they see fit so long as they don’t harm anyone else.

    “The EU does not trust you plebs. It continually passes rules or laws that seek to govern your minds and lives. It tells all national governments to restrict speech that incites hatred ‘based on race, s*x, religion or nationality’, an explicit attack on freedom of speech. It has seriously discussed outlawing the denial not only of the Holocaust — which would be illiberal enough — but also of various other crimes against humanity. This would massively dent academic freedom and historical debate.”

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/for-europe-against-the-eu/18102#.VttBiPDfWK2

    • Joyjlavigne


      “my .friend’s mate Is getting 98$. HOURLY. on the internet.”….


      two days ago new Mc.Laren. F1 bought after earning 18,512$,,,this was my previous month’s paycheck ,and-a little over, 17k$ Last month ..3-5 h/r of work a days ..with extra open doors & weekly. paychecks.. it’s realy the easiest work I have ever Do.. I Joined This 7 months ago and now making over 87$, p/h.Learn. More right Hereoo!75➤➤➤➤➤ http://GlobalSuperEmploymentVacanciesReportsWeb/GetPaid/98$hourly…. .❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:::::oo!75…….

    • Sue Smith

      People like Brendan O’Neill and Mark Steyne are the real heroes in this day and age. They make a great deal of sense and are very brave indeed.

      It’s so much easier to be a sheep and do nothing; they are the opposite. People have lost their lives for much less.

    • Wessex Man

      What do you two get paid for advertising?

      • WFC

        I’m supposed to get paid?

        Nobody told me.

        • Wessex Man

          I never asked that question, 40 minutes ago I was driving in my car, something strange is going on here, I also seen a comment on another thread that I didn’t make.

          • https://chaunceytinker.wordpress.com/ Chauncey Tinker

            That’s a different id.

            • Spasticus Outisticus

              It’s not very clever to LEAVE one’s avatar set to default imo.

    • Wessex Man

      I agree entirely and am astonished that this very evil Turkish Government hasn’t been thrown out of NATO, yet alone encouraged to join the EU. All democracy is being squeezed out of it and there wasn’t much to start with.

      If Russia and Turkey go to war I don’t want to see my family fighting on behalf of a regime that buys it’s oil from IS, attacks the Kurds and pushes the Syrian Refugees to Europe.

      Turkey is not our friend, it may be Merkel’s but her power mad judgement has to be called into question and only gives us another reason to leave the EU as soon as possible!

    • Morseman

      How interesting that you manage to misuse a serious article about the abuse of power and censorship of the press in Turkey by writing a long criticism of the European Union.

      • WFC

        Just pointing out that if I want to point the finger at a country which arrests and detains journalists, I can point it a lot closer to home: http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/content/67-british-journalists-arrested-andor-charged-course-their-jobs-2011

        • Morseman

          Yes indeed, this is shocking and intolerable but that is what you could have written instead of attacking the EU, which has nothing to do with heavy-handed policing in the UK and attacking journalists.

          • WFC

            But it is the direction the whole EU is travelling in.

            • PGBerkin

              That’s been my feeling at times, as well. It seems to me more of a case that the eu is trying to join Turkey rather than Turkey the eu.

            • Shari Belue


              “my .friend’s mate Is getting 98$. HOURLY. on the internet.”….


              two days ago new Mc.Laren. F1 bought after earning 18,512$,,,this was my previous month’s paycheck ,and-a little over, 17k$ Last month ..3-5 h/r of work a days ..with extra open doors & weekly. paychecks.. it’s realy the easiest work I have ever Do.. I Joined This 7 months ago and now making over 87$, p/h.Learn. More right Hereoo!455➤➤➤➤➤ http://GlobalSuperEmploymentVacanciesReportsLive/GetPaid/98$hourly…. .❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:❖:❦:::::oo!455…….

            • Morseman

              No it isn’t. Freedom of the press is a basic right in the EU.
              One could even argue that had Turkey been a member of the EU, Erdogan might have been more moderate to avoid sanctions and isolation by the other member states.

              • WFC

                Policemen in Holland warning people about Facebook posts?
                Zuckerburg cooperating with the German government to remove “hate speech”?
                Daily Mail articles censored in Sweden?
                Swedish police telling journalists not to report certain things?

                Oh yes. The EU is all about free speech!

        • Alex

          What does a Metropolitan Police investigation into phone-hacking have to do with the EU? It would seem to be something to do with the UK … an argument for our total subsumation into the superstate, perhaps? Maybe they could govern us more democratically.

          • WFC

            Which part of the EU do you consider to be democratic?

            • Alex

              The European Parliament and the European Commission, which are no less democratic than the way we elect MPs and appoint ministers in the UK.

              • WFC

                Save that the UK Parliament can initiate and amend legislation, and can “no confidence” both the government as a whole and individual ministers.

                The European Parliament cannot do any of those things. It can merely suggest amendments, and can only censure the Commission. It is more akin to a medieval advisory parliament than a modern, democratic one.

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        Vichy Dave want Turkey in the EU. Surely acts like this should exclude them from being considered. Otherwise they are all cut from the same cloth and what we see in Turkey awaits all of us.

  • Ron Todd

    Remind me again why do our political masters want Turkey in the EU?

    • GnosticBrian

      Because “our political masters” are no such thing – they have no control over our affairs having given it away to unelected functionaries for a mess of pottage.

      • CRSM

        And then regurgitate it as a Pot of Message.

    • WFC

      More people to rule.

    • Gilbert White

      Imagine all the people living as one in Nutupia? Nutupian national anthem was played at London Olympics!

    • Sue Smith

      Hungary Germany ate some Turkey dipped in Greece.

    • rtj1211

      Turkey is in NATO, the Americans want them in the EU and Europe does what the Americans tell them to or else?

    • Mike Christie

      A massive reservoir of even cheaper labour than Eastern Europe.

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