Coffee House

The anti-Donald Trump mob is Making America Scary

12 March 2016

9:29 AM

12 March 2016

9:29 AM

Last night in Chicago, a mob of progressives shut down a Donald Trump rally.

The protestors — described as mostly young millennials — infiltrated the University of Illinois Pavilion, in central Chicago, and set about subverting the event. They waved Mexican flags — pro-immigrant, geddit — and wore t-shirts calling Trump Hitler. There were violent clashes and a policeman was reportedly injured.

The protestors cheered when police announced the rally would be shut down because of security concerns. They revelled in their victory against free speech, taunting the furious Trump fans with chants of ‘we won’.

This is American politics now: juvenile, anti-liberal, menacing.

We know that Trump voters are angry. Even angrier, it seems, are those on America’s left who just cannot accept that Trump voters exist.

Weirdly, both sides want Donald Trump to win the Republican nomination. The Trump fans, obviously, because they love annoying the world with their candidate. But so too the anti-Trumpists, because they violently want to have a moral political purpose.

No wonder Donald Trump says he ‘gladly accepts the mantle of anger’. He must see that anger on all sides fuels his rise.

As lots of conservatives on social media have already said, just imagine if a bunch of violent Trump fans had disrupted a Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton event. They would be called fascists, and the condemnation would be global. Politicians across the world would issue statements expressing concern.

When the same thing happens to a Trump rally, however, the reaction is strangely mute. This unfairness causes resentment which causes Trump to win more votes.

In fact, lots of people who previously might have not voted for Trump will now do so precisely because they don’t want to be told what to do by a bunch of snarling, smug left-liberal millennials. If there was any chance of stopping Donald Trump becoming the Republican nominee, it was shut down last night in Chicago.


Show comments
  • Vúvido Primero

    here you will find the real dream of Donald Trump

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5OqBd-hvKc

  • disqus_JNA27oNKVJ

    Put a DONALD sticker on anyone’s car you see with a BERNIE OR HILARY STICKER ON IT, LETS MAKE THE NEWS ON THIS,. i GOT 4 CARS THIS MORNING ! VOTE DONALD TRUMP LETS MAKE AMERICAN GREAT AGAIN , NOT STUPID.

  • disqus_JNA27oNKVJ

    Oh I’m now Voting for the Trump Man ! These Left wing liberals are border line Terrorist lying real racist thugs ! Look up Jamal Green , he was liberal Idiot that started the Violence, Not Trump ! and I hate the Liberal Media they too love to lie, Lets destroy liberalism altogether. They love everything that’s bad for this country, Those idiots would like Sharia law in this country, So if you want to destroy this country go ahead and Vote for Bernie or Hilary, I can tell you now they are full of it and doing what they do best, LIE to you , paint you a nice rosy picture so they can rip it up once they get into office, Young people today are being taught by Liberal Teachers and Professors, This is how Bias they’ve become, If you wear a T- Shirt with Jesus the savor , which is the right of WHO ever believes in Christianity should have to Right to wear, will get suspended or kick out, But Its okay for Drag queen to wear Miniskirt and High heels, same with Muslims , its okay for them to wear Burkas? Where is the freedom of US AMERICAN CITIZEN?, No ! what Liberals Idiots want is for Criminals. Illegal Aliens and Refugees to have more rights and More entitlements, Limit your entitlements and have YOU the working American Taxed to death so you can Pay for them, How nice of them to think where Okay with this and how compassionate to allow criminals into our country, The Liberals think they will eventually assimilate to becoming better people, Let one of them try breaking my door down, Illegal alien, Refugees or any thuggish punk of any race they will be met with a Hail of Bullets ! Stop the Liberal Madness , Vote for Trump !

  • http://www.mngardens.com/ Mark Gardens

    Trump 2016!!!!

  • Ozzy Guy

    These cretins prove beyond doubt how vital it is for Trump to win.

  • Cyril Sneer

    When democracy goes against the wishes of the left they get violent.

    Slander and censorship, the left in a nutshell.

  • chizwoz

    The reactions to it have also been very worrying. Granted, this does approach a very grey area in terms of freedom of speech. But what’s undeniable is that celebrating someone cancelling their rally is not a liberal attitude at all.

    • MC

      Not one of the other nominees have supported Trump’s right to speak freely. It will count against them in the long run, especially Clinton who was amongst the first to blame Trump those who sought to No Platform him. All the candidates amazingly forget the first amendment at their own risk.
      Had Clinton been intelligent she’d have both supported Trump’s right to speak at the same time as denouncing what he had to say.

      • chizwoz

        I noticed how many of them have blamed him for it. I wish they’d see that that kind of response is exactly why people like him in the first place, they’re just tired of that kind of bullshit from politicians (and are more than happy to swap it for Trump’s kind of bullshit)

  • frank davidson

    Just wonder if all those demonstrators will vote or are entitled to vote.

  • DaviddeAngelis
  • Miro23

    A great article. Why does stating the obvious truth seem so strange and radical?

    • WTF

      Because those that have created Trump live in their own isolated world with no connection with reality.

      • Nick1963

        A very strange isolated world…

  • http://opednews.com/michaelcollins Michael Collins

    What a moronic article. Trump behaves like a cowardly bully, someone who talks tough while others do the fighting. In response, Mr. Gray castigates a small group of protesters who got sick and tire of Trump’s big mouth and showed him how politics works in Chicago. Watch a Chicago City Council meeting if you want to see some real, no holds barred political intimidation. Trump is a clown show, a narcissist gone wild. How anyone could take him as anything other than that is beyond me.

    • Cyril Sneer

      ” a small group of protesters who got sick and tire of Trump’s big mouth and showed him how politics works in Chicago”

      Oh is that how democracy and freedom speech works now. Disrupt the political opposition through the use of violence and intimidation.

      Just like Hitler’s brownshirts…

      • http://opednews.com/michaelcollins Michael Collins

        Give me a break on Hitler (and remarkably, the thread didn’t end here;). My point is that Chicago is a robust political environment. There’s a lot of shouting and shoving and it’s not all Democrats. Trump can dish it out but his supporters can’t take it. They sound like a bunch of cry babies.

  • David Nichols

    So it’s fair to say if your a Eisenhower Republican then you are not a conservative. However, I often find it amusing when those that LOVE the first amendment, want to use it to close the mouth of others. I wish we had one man one vote and not a republic so those with such big mouths would find out what that would do to their right to express their opinion. LOL…..Anti Trump movement, is that like the black lives mater movement, or the move on dot org movement or the save the whales movement or less I forget my bowel movement. LOL……Protesting for the purpose of closing down free speech is about the most fascist type of movement I can think of…. I am MUCH more of a fan of restricting the vote to one state one vote……Democracy is a DANGEROUS thing for minorities…….

  • jeffy

    you would have defended hitler as well. please buy some rope and hang yourself.

  • David Nichols

    Ya got to love the PROFESSIONAL agitator who attacked Trump….He has been arrested before for the same thing, is a BIG Sanders supporter and Black Lives Mater protester……Truely he needs to get a job…..or better yet a life.

  • David Nichols

    Skipping Dog, it appears you like to rant without intellectual thought, has that always been your style or do you believe your so “enlightened” that you just have a superior intellect? LOL….I love your post, they are full of the liberal emotional gut reaction.

  • trobrianders

    The new fascist language of human rights will take out millions.

  • yapity

    At the same time though, if we let a racist, lying bigot get that close to the nomination without speaking up, that would be even worse. It would be like laying down when Hitler tried to take over your country. From what I heard, there was no violence from the progressive side. They were rowdy, loud, rude sure. but not violent

    • trobrianders

      That admission pretty much makes you a thug.

    • WTF

      Its impossible to call it over whether violence might have occurred but Trump did the right thing by cancelling the rally as if it had gone ahead and people had died, we all know who would have been put in the frame.

      Cast your mind back to 2011 when a UK student threw a fire extinguisher off a London roof and it narrowly missed killing someone. Were their racist speakers in that crowd ? No, just a bunch of unwashed out of work students out for trouble.

      http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/jan/11/student-fire-extinguisher-protests-jailed

      Then in the 1970 at Kent State University when students protesting over the Vietnam war that Democrats JFK and Lyndon Johnson instigated when some were killed or injured by the National Guard when things got out of hand. Who was to blame there, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, the Uni authorities, the National Guard or students ? Take your pick !

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_University

      Students, protesters, agitators paid for or not will do dumb, stupid and criminal acts if the mood takes them and it doesn’t matter whose politics they are protesting about either. Its easy to have a cheap shot at Trump but equally we could blame Cameron for that London students act or JFK & LBJ for the deaths at Kent State Uni. Sensible people take a more pragmatic view and accept that no matter who is in power or canvassing, no matter what they might say, they will be some protesters out to cause serious violence and trouble and politicizing it like you have is unhelpful and pointless. It doesn’t take much to turn a peaceful protest into a violent event if the wrong type of people are allowed in.

    • Cyril Sneer

      Racist lying bigot eh…..

      I’m sure you will do everything in your power to prevent democracy and prevent people to speak freely in a free country when their views do not align with yours like the little fascist that you are.

      • yapity

        People like you, making assumptions like that, are exactly why there is violence at Donald Trump’s rallies. People believe they’re fighting for their rights, their democracy. That’s a lie! None of these protestors have tried to take away their right to free speech or their right to vote. They are just exercising their right to free speech in a way that makes Donald Trump supporters feel like they have no voice at all, because they’re being drowned out by the noise of the people who hate him!

        I may hate Donald Trump, but I would never try to take away his right to free speech or yours. I just ask that you don’t take away mine!!

    • Cyril Sneer
  • retundario

    This is all due to media shills such as yourself. The media line is that violence against the ideologically impure is justified. Time to take you down – very hard

  • ~m~

    We want violence to stop and we really need leaders to stop preaching it from the podium! Leaders…need…to…NOT…fan the flames of violence…..dark….dark…road. Seriously scary stuff. We need more from our leaders than this! Please consider reason. Caveat emptor my friends, this is no good.

    • Cyril Sneer

      Ah yes the lefty lie that Trump has preached violence whilst casually ignoring who is actually conducting the violence and disruption – the race agitators of the left wing.

      • ~m~

        The man is standing on a podium, encouraging violence and offering to pay fees and fines for it, and then there’s people like you. I’m done talking about it, we clearly occupy two entirely separate realities and talking is utterly pointless.

  • Simon Fay

    2008 in reverse.

  • evad666

    Ah at last a grudging admission that democracy is threatened by a bunch of “Progressives”.

  • Cyril Sneer

    The violent anti-democratic anti-free speech race agitating and ever divisive left in a nutshell.

    Also known as….

    SCUM

  • Сорокин

    Trump and his supporters are a menace, not the people who stand up against them.

    • Cyril Sneer

      Oh genius. The people ‘who stand up to him’ are deliberately trying to silence him and disrupt his speeches. Hardly respectful of free speech and democracy is it? The left are the enemy.

      • red2black

        Consider the entertainment value.

        • Cyril Sneer

          Consider how this comes across to the American people.

          • red2black

            That must depend on their various points of view.
            I’m sure Mr Trump wasn’t expecting an easy ride.

            • Cyril Sneer

              The fact that you think disrupting political rallies through violence and using intimidation on political opponents and their supporters as entertainment rather nicely sums up the left wing further underlining their slide into the political abyss.

              You are Hitler’s brownshirts. Congrats.

              • red2black

                The whole thing’s highly entertaining, including your nonsense about Hitler’s Brownshirts.
                I’m sure Florida will be far more genteel.

    • WTF

      And you know that why ?

  • John Steadman

    For English-speaking Spectator readers, ‘scary’ means frightening.

  • Ciaran Caughey

    TRUMP 2016.

    • cmflynn

      Interesting to remember how in December Trump was dismissed by the BBC as having no hope of the nomination in spite of leading all polls by a long way. No, no, it was Rubio who was a dead cert for the Republican nomination in their opinion. Not that it would matter as Hillary was sure to be the President. Interesting that ‘by coincidence’ these were George Soros’s picks. I wonder if there could be some kind of contact between him and the BBC. Strangely he never seems to be mentioned by the BBC in spite of spending many millions to back up his candidates.

      • WTF

        What does the BBC know !

    • cmflynn

      What happened to your longer post to which I answered below?

  • Kasperlos

    The shameful organised mob, comprised partly of foreign flag-waving illegal immigrants, foreign students who have no voting rights in America, along with Islamic protestors, was dispatched by the billionaire globalist George Soros funded radical MoveOn.org. What happened in Chicago was shameful in that a bedrock right of our country was trampled upon, i.e. the right to assemble, to speak, to participate in the political process. The agenda is clear in America: either America remains in the hands of its citizens or its 240 year old experiment succumbs to the brave new world (read totalitarian) hatched for us by the globalist elites and their followers. It’s that simple, that critical of an election in 2016. Donald J. Trump knows the score and has tapped into what many Americans feel and have sensed for three decades now. There is a real anger, but it is a positive anger born out of the knowledge that the country of their birth no longer belongs to them, that the America of their parents no longer holds the same promise, that they have been horrendously betrayed by the professional ruling class for decades. And so many support Trump in wanting to save the country from going down the path of becoming a globalised feudal plantation of consumers and tax slaves. Sound familiar, UK? The United States is at a threshold of salvation or the abyss, and Europe should well pay attention as the same question beckons, viz. which way.

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    • The Patriarchy

      You might find a more ready audience at http://www.theguardian.com, whose readers will believe absolutely anything.

  • SkippingDog

    The Anti-Trump movement is just getting started. Millions of people who have contemplated how they would have acted during the rise of fascism in the 1920’s and 1930’s are going to have their chance to act on those principles soon.

    • trobrianders

      Their fascist principles, yes. You virtue-signallers are all fascists

      • SkippingDog

        Fighting fascists can hardly be a fascist activity. You seem confused. Not really surprising, since you folks are consistently confused about terms like “socialist” and “patriot” as well.

        • trobrianders

          Break the law instead of encouraging it from your armchair, get caught, get raped in jail, then come out and tell Sky News what a mess you made of your life, loser.

          • SkippingDog

            No need to, but you folks sure do like to bring up the subject of jail rape whenever possible. It seems to be a fetish with you. Do you like gladiator movies too?

            • Cyril Sneer

              A bitter little fascist aren’t you.

        • WTF

          National Socialist German Workers’ Party as in Chicago with suppressing of freedom of expression, thugs to intimidate those who disagree, it certainly matches the DNA of all those knuckle draggers who slipped in to disrupt free speech.

          • SkippingDog

            Trump is far closer to the fascist nationalism of 1920’s Italy.

            • WTF

              And you know this to be a fact because ?

              • SkippingDog

                Because I can read a history book. You should try it sometime.

                • WTF

                  If you’re that well informed perhaps you can enlighten us with these facts you’re so certain about and we’ll bow down to your superior intellect and knowledge !

                • SkippingDog

                  No, you won’t. You don’t care about facts or history, unless it supports your agenda. All you need do is read about the growth of Italian Fascism in the 1920’s to see what you and your cronies up to today.

                • WTF

                  Stop behaving like a spoiled petulant child and man up, if you have some facts, post them, but considering your reluctance I suspect you haven’t any.

                  In fact the events in Chicago are exactly like the fascism of Mussolini or Hitler to shut down free speech with violence as it now turns out that George Soros (the Wall St Fat Cat who raped Britain) has been funding moveon.org a fascist group who are infiltrating Trump rallies to cause violence.

                  Here’s a link highlighting fascism from the progessive liberals, something you have issues in providing yourself. maybe its because of the message it contains.

                  http://www.infowars.com/soros-funded-moveon-org-takes-credit-for-violence-in-chicago/

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Ah, there’s wild accusations blaming others for your views again, as you blame people recording rallies of your God Emperor for “causing violence”…check.

                  As you mention Trump’s attempts to shut down free speech with “cancellations”…when did some of your other Heros do that?

                • Cyril Sneer

                  Slander.
                  Censorship.

                  That’s what you’re all about eh little fascist.

                • Cyril Sneer

                  Hahaaha what a weak answer.

            • Cyril Sneer

              You’re losing mate, suck it up fascist.

        • Cyril Sneer

          Fighting fascists?

          Someone attends a Republican nomination rally, they get attacked and you call them fascist? Hahahaa!

    • Cyril Sneer

      Strange how it’s the anti-trump lot that are the fascists as we can clearly see from the recent news headlines.

      Ah the scum left – accuse political opponents of fascism whilst using fascist tactics to prevent free speech and democracy.

      You’re not kidding anyone mate. You’re scared, don’t we know it, it’s called democracy.

      • SkippingDog

        If that’s what you think, you’re clearly ignorant of what the word “fascist” really means. Not really surprising, since you folks can’t seem to understand what “socialist” means either.

        • WTF

          1930’s Germany, socialism & fascism as in National Socialist German Workers’ Party, keep up, you’re showing your historical ignorance !

          • red2black

            Oswald Spengler’s National Socialism.

        • Cyril Sneer

          Do you believe in free speech and do you believe people should be able to exercise that free speech free from violence and intimidation?

          You clearly don’t. As you have proven here.

    • trobrianders

      You’re the brownshirts, you idiot.

      • SkippingDog

        Hardly. Hope you enjoy your torchlight parade later.

        • David Nichols

          Have you always been a flaming liberal or did you come to that point because you either A: need some type of help from the government or B: you are not well traveled or well read on matters of history.

          • SkippingDog

            I’m actually an Eisenhower Republican who once voted for Ronald Reagan. If you want to discuss the growth of fascist nationalism under various banners in the Weimar Republic, I’m pleased to do so.

            As Mark Twain is reported to have said, history doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes.

        • Cyril Sneer

          You agree with disrupting political meetings with intimidation and violence.

          You’re the fascist.

    • WTF

      The anti-Trump movement have been going for 6 months at least, where have you been, not that they’ve made any headway !

      • SkippingDog

        I’m not part of the movement. In fact, I’m hoping he actually gets nominated. Between now and November, the parallels to Goldwater will become ever more apparent – except that Goldwater really was a patriot.

    • Cyril Sneer

      The problem is the anti-trump movement are the fascists.

      Read up on Hitler’s brownshirts, now take a good long look in the mirror.

      It’s never a good sign – having a profile where the number of comments is twice that of up votes. You must be of the left.

  • David Power

    Things just got very serious people.

    Turns out the guy stopped from jumping Trump today, had links to Islamic extremist groups…

    https://amp.twimg.com/v/977860d3-6b1b-4a5f-a81e-67baa6e2e3b1

    https://mobile.twitter.com/voxday/status/708813821025062912/photo/1

    • Nick1963

      I think you’ll find that, by tomorrow, this one will have been shown to be the work of ‘pranksters’ (the best description). Trump campaign have retweeted the link, but the You Tube link is already ‘404’d. It’s most likely bollocks… but being Trump they’ve not checked before fanning the flame.

      • WTF

        Does it really matter who caused this security scare, lucky for the guy he wasn’t taken down permanently by the secret service.

        • Nick1963

          No – but it does matter than the Trump Campaign have posted this – probable – drivel on social media without checking its veracity, accompanied by the now usual Trump inflammatory spin. A reminder of the Mussolini ‘quote’ prank they fell for last month. Sure, it’s amateurish… but that’s not the point either.

          • WTF

            Pot & Kettle comes to mind when looking at his opponents like
            Cruz & Rubio. Just a short few months ago they were quite happy to
            join the band wagon to destroy political correctness and now they
            themselves are trying to use political correctness to shut him down.

            Either you’re for free speech or you’re not its really quite simple and 1930’s Germany was an example of PC fascism & toeing the party line with no free speech, obviously you’re quite comfortable with suppression of the facts and censorship.

            • red2black

              Anders Breivik reckons his Human Rights have been violated.
              It’s political correctness gone mad.

              • WTF

                Not sure I see the connection as Breivik massacred a bunch of school kids and doesn’t deserve any human rights but what has that got to do with freedom of speech.

                • red2black

                  ‘a bunch of school kids’?

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Ah, so people don’t deserve Human rights – because if they can’t be upheld for criminals, they certainly won’t be upheld for anyone else!

                  And you can’t see his point? Unsurprising.

                • WTF

                  Any individual who kills others through terrorist acts doesn’t in my opinion deserve any human rights for the simple reason they aren’t human.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  If people’s rights are conditional, can be waived by the state…then they are no rights.

                  Moreover, dehumanising people to “non-human” status is simply social darwinism.

                • WTF

                  Terrorists who kill do not represent the human race, they are not people.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Yes yes, you decry basic rights, as I said, and your dehumanising people is typical and widespread among the right – the Tories are doing it do the disabled now as well, for instance.

                  You stand with the far right, who have killed people, so…

                • WTF

                  I repeat, terrorists who kill do not represent the human race and pedophiles that gang rape 12 year old girls are not human either and deserve no human rights.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Yes yes, you don’t believe in Human rights, I hear you. You started with one catagory, and will keep adding more, it’s clear.

                  You’ve accused me, for believing in equality before the law, of being “like” a category you now condemn as sub-human.

                • WTF

                  I repeat again, terrorists who kill do not represent the human race and pedophiles that gang rape 12 year old girls are not human either and deserve no human rights.

                  Only people who do not kill or harm others in this manner deserve human rights.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  You repeat, you oppose human rights. You keep chipping away, showing how you plan to sell your opposition to every last one of them for the peons…

                  If Human Rights are to exist, then they must be universal. Equality before the law. This does not mean criminals get away with it, it means that things are done in a transparent, just way.

                  So sorry you hate me so bitterly for this, that you defame me by linking me to the people you consider subhuman…although of course in good part of course because I’m Jewish, given your views…

                • WTF

                  “If Human Rights are to exist, then they must be universal” – Who says that other than you or other progressive liberals ?

                  If Human Rights are to exist, then they must be universal. – For all humans but not sub humans.

                  Equality before the law – Fine, before you are found guilty of inhuman acts that define you as sub-human.

                  I don’t hate you, I pity you !

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Except the 99%, why…

                  As you oppose all Human Rights, and want special rights for you and your buddies. For the law to favor you and your interests, over other Humans. Your fake “courts”, where your enemies were stripped of rights, en-mass… like any other totalitarian dictatorship… “inhuman” acts like not agreeing with you…

                  As you “pity” those like me, of a faith you consider the members of to of course be sub-Human, your “courts” would as you instruct…

                • WTF

                  Dyslexic as well – If Human Rights are to exist, then they must be universal. – For all humans

                  That’s favoring the law abiding civilized 99% of people of the world

                  A pity you as an individual, faith has nothing to do with it

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Yes yes, you want to redefine Human as a very exclusive category, you’ve said.
                  You want Special Rights for your elite. Not Human Rights.

                  You’d persecute 1% of your own…oddly specific. Your own few, your “law abiding” far right, your “civilized” far right… like the ones stopped at Cable Street!

                  And religion is the issue, right, I know…

                  (As for your noting you’d automatically exclude dyslexic people (like me, yes) from your category of “Human”….)

                • WTF

                  Yep, 99% of the 2 legged mammals as being human with perhaps 1% or however many terrorists and child rapists as being sub human. I wouldn’t persecute them, I’d just execute them or surgically remove certain parts of their anatomy so they could rape a young girl again. To be compassionate I would offer a local anesthetic though.

                  Religion has nothing to do with it,

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  So you’d chop off people’s legs….en-mass. Oh dear.

                  And you’d start castrating and murdering people based on your eugenics and thought crime theories, as you’ve decried courts and called for Special Rights, only for your few. “Terrorists”…ah, like BobMex calls all Israelis and indeed Jews and non-Jewish Zionists terrorists, eh?

                  Your attempts to decry your comments on religions…

                • WTF

                  That would work but I believe in having the punishment fit the crime so it would be other appendages I’d remove, but please take your ‘meds’ before you have a stroke !

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Ah yes, be poisoned before you… “stroke”…hmm!

                  And as for “An Eye For An Eye”…
                  Remind me, how well did that work for Israel?

                  As I said, I support the rule of law. I support civilization. I support rights for all, and equality before the law. I support Britain.

                  Cry harder.

                • WTF

                  And as I’ve said, I support the rule of law. I support civilization. I support
                  rights for all, and equality before the law. I support Britain.

                  But sub-humans who having been tried and found guilty by their peers deserve the maximum penalties up to and including execution, castration and penectomy so they can’t re-offend.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  So you contradict yourself.
                  Over and over.

                  You state you don’t support rule of law. You support no doubt a narrow system of “peers”, you support powers to punish which end up being used on the innocent, you’d cause a lot more crime of course…. your bitter hate for civilization and the British, as you make clear…

                • WTF

                  As I’ve said, I support the rule of law for all humans but the fact that you keep bringing up all manner of unrelated weird cr** into the post like ZOG, my ‘apparent’ hatred of civilization and the British or my hatred of ethnic minorities despite being close friends with many, I can only surmise that you are well into that unfortunate condition called senile dementia. I see this sort of mind state quite regularly these days on TV news when anarchists are asked why they are promoting or resorting to violence, they don’t seem to know and their responses are just almost as dis-jointed as yours.

                  Without a consult with a medical professional whether your case is age related or excessive indoctrination by the progressive liberals is impossible to say, but you’re rambling off subject and inventing stuff all the time so there’s definitely a medical condition that needs to be addressed.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Yes yes, you support the rule of law for the very few you consider Human, as you try and hide now from your production of ZOG conspiracy theory videos, deny your pposts, and as you claim you’re friendly with some of those you consider sub-human…

                  You “surmise” from your bigotry and hate I have your issues, as you see yourself in your mirror…oh well! Then you blame “anarchists”, showing your lack of knowledge…. those are “Bankers”.

                  As you scream that believing anything else is magically “senile dementure” (and hence makes people sub-human and not worth the proction of your law, check), as you demand that anyone with other views has a “medical condition”, and like the Reich you’ll use that to silence dissent…

                  Same far right, same totalitarian thuggery…

                • WTF

                  Have you any the faintest clue how others view your rambling disjointed posts as I can assure you that just as previous rants you have embarked upon in the past, you’re not doing yourself any favours. Its pointless replying to any of this garbage you post as its the ravings of someone with real issues of sanity.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  I don’t have any idea about your fantasies where you apparently blame your posts… as you scream other views have “real issues of sanity”, and you take any contradiction as “garbage”.

                  I’ll keep supporting equality before the law for all people, not just those who you’d raise up and give special rights to. Your constant objections to that…

                • Nick1963

                  Human rights either apply to all or none – in other words if they’re not universal, they don’t exist for anyone. It’s not a ‘left’ or ‘right’ thing. It is what it is.

                  Read Primo Levi’s ‘If This Is A Man’ to get a real idea of what happens when a society denies equal – or any in this case – human rights to one sector of that society.

                • WTF

                  I agree, however as I don’t regard convicted terrorist who murder people or gang rapists of underage girls as human beings, they are basically feral animals and animal rights apply, like euthanizing a rabid dog.

              • Leon Wolfeson

                If human rights are conditional, then they don’t exist, the state will just waive them whenever it finds it convenient.

                Moreover, his claims have not been supported when he tried last time, and no evidence they will this time – that you’d stop him even claiming…

                • red2black

                  You misunderstand me. Let’s just say that Mr Breivik’s claim (probably an advised one)
                  is ironic, to say the least.

            • Nick1963

              I am all for free speech. But this guy is a Presidential candidate. Posting (in this case retweeting) made up bullshit – which is what it has now been shown to be, 24 hours on – that looked VERY dodgy to begin with, is not the action of a serious politician, one constantly harping on about all his opponents apparent shortcomings – as he sees them, at least.

              Additionally, this is the guy who wants to restrict First Amendment rights for everyone else – except himself, it seems.

              • WTF

                All leaders or wannabee leaders will lie if it suits their political agenda and its up to the press to equally expose anyone from any party who lies and let the public decide. I’m not an apologist for Trump and in many ways he doesn’t come across as presidential material but history should judge leaders or politicians to see if they were failures, success’s, liars or generally truthful.

                Trumps success and weakness is he isn’t afraid to call it as it is especially over national security and terrorism. There’s many on both sides who agree that ISIS or Islamic extremism is a major problem as evidenced by San Bernandino, Boston, Fort Hood, Chattanooga and a few more terrorist acts and that’s just the USA. The difference is the PC crowd call it work place violence whilst Trump calls it by its real name Islamic terrorism. Even Hollande in France has finally called it that but it took over 100 dead before he call it as it is. If politicians aren’t prepared to admit there is a problem, they’ll never solve a problem, its that simple.

                If nothing else, Trump has shaken up the complacent elite establishment and perhaps they’ll get off their rear ends and deal with problems that affect every citizen except them with 24/7 security protection.

    • Cyril Sneer

      The left and militant Islam – like two peas in a pod.

  • Nick1963

    I’m absolutely amazed at some of the comments here. OK, The Spectator has a conservative leaning, as do its stablemates, The Daily Telegraph and Sunday Telegraph, but the comments are, in the main, condoning and absolving someone who’s statements (where they can be disentangled from the stream of self-aggrandizing nonsensensical non-sequiturs he angrily spews) are too often, fascistic in both meaning and tone – though, not necessarily, at the same time.

    • Space 1999

      Evidence of ‘fascistic’ statements please?

      • Nick1963

        Well – for one, Muslims having to register their presence…

        • Charlie Anderson

          You mean like the “census” where you have to declare your religion?

          • Nick1963

            No.

            • Charlie Anderson

              Well, what did you mean then?

              • Nick1963

                Friday, Nov. 20

                …an MSNBC reporter asked Trump, “Should there be a database or system that tracks Muslims in this country?”

                “There should be a lot of systems,” Trump responded. “Beyond databases. I mean, we should have a lot of systems.”

                ………

                A few seconds later, when asked how he would register people into a database, Trump said, “It would just be good management.”

                Finally, the reporter asked if Muslims would legally have to be part of the database.

                “They have to be — they have to be,” Trump said.

                http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/nov/24/donald-trumps-comments-database-american-muslims/

                • Charlie Anderson

                  Still wanting to know what you meant.

                • Nick1963

                  Well – if you don’t get it then I guess you’ll have to stay wanting…

                • Charlie Anderson

                  Your own source discredits you:

                  Trump’s exchange with Stephanopoulos seems to be the clearest
                  explanation of his position. No, he would not rule out a database on all
                  Muslims. But for now, he wants a database for refugees.

                  http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/nov/24/donald-trumps-comments-database-american-muslims/

                  So what is it you meant?

                • Nick1963

                  No

                • Nick1963

                  My source merely shows that Trump, himself, is very imprecise when questioned. His first statement on a position, therefore, is probably what he actually means before trying to nuance his position when the flaws are pointed out… to wit, his problem with his weird conversation with Jake Tapper over the KKK and David Duke a couple of weeks ago.

                • Charlie Anderson

                  We can all play that game.

                  Do you categorically condemn the views of Leonard Freeman? If not, why not?

                • Nick1963

                  Because I have no idea who Leonard Freeman is.

                • Charlie Anderson

                  Exactly.

                • Nick1963

                  So what are you saying – exactly?

                • Charlie Anderson

                  That we can all play the game of asking someone to condemn somebody they’ve never heard of, or potentially had heard of a long time ago and then forgotten.

                • Nick1963

                  Are you saying that Trump the Magnificent didn’t say that he would require Muslims to register their presence in the US, regardless of whether they are citizens or refugees or other immigrants (legal or illegal)?

                • Charlie Anderson

                  Yes, because he didn’t say that and the article you cited proves that. Plus he wouldn’t be able to do that, even if he became president, because the Supreme Court would strike it down.

                  Or don’t you know how it works?

                • Nick1963

                  Yes – I do know how it works. And you’re correct – it would be struck down by the Supreme Court. As would his other suggestion to deport 11 million people. Alongside that, there’s the fact that his statement that the families of suspected ISIS members should be killed – which would be a warcrime; the Generals have already said that is an order that would be ignored. Then there’s the statement that he would rewrite the First Amendment (the one dealing with freedom of speech) because he doesn’t like journalists asking him awkward questions or legitimately investigating him (that one is all about him, by the way). One would hope the Supreme Court points him towards the door on that one too.

                  But the fact is he did say it, dissembled when questioned and, regardless of how much or how far he backtracks – or even denounces the idea saying it was a mistake (he won’t) – he is a Presidential candidate of a democratic country who shouldn’t even be making statements that could be interpreted as autocratic and fascistic.

                  It’s rabble rousing demagoguery at it’s worst.

                • WTF

                  Change the subject when you lose the first argument !

                • Nick1963

                  I haven’t lost the argument, or changed the subject. The subject is whether or not Trump said he would, as President, require Muslims to register as Muslims…

                • WTF

                  Its already done, whats your problem ?

                • Nick1963

                  Or be more precise in your question.

                • WTF

                  Everyone is on a database through a census and Trumps just re-iterating what is done, what is required and if its not then it should be done as per the procedures.

                • Nick1963

                  Religion is not required to be stated on a US census.

        • mark

          So what are you, someone totally ignorant of what islam really teaches (quran, hadith, sirra – terrorism) or a muslim in disguise?

          • Nick1963

            No – I’m someone who’s aware that, like all the major religions there are various versions of Islam ranging from extreme fundamentalism, to verbally intolerant (but physically harmless) to normal, everyday worshippers to occasional worshippers, to lapsed… Most (and by that I do mean the vast majority) Muslims fit in the ‘normal, everyday worshippers’ category – somewhat akin to mild Anglican/Lutheran in US Christian terms.

            The extreme fundamentalists are more akin to the wackier, nominally, Christian sects that pop up in the US every few years… Jim Jones’ Disciples of Christ or David Koresh’s Branch Davidians…

            All that said, I’m not at all sure that you know what Islam really teaches. You know some of the words (or think you do) – may even have looked them up once or twice – but you clearly don’t understand what they really mean, and probably don’t even care to.

            There’s nothing at all sinister about either the Koran or Hadith – they’re religious texts analogous to the Christian Bible (mainly the New Testament, as it happens – the four Gospels and Acts and the Epistles). No idea what ‘sirra’ is – neither, I suspect do you. As for terrorism; if you’re suggesting terrorism is a uniquely ‘Muslim’ or ‘Islamic’ horror, you’re wrong.

            And, I’m guessing that a ‘muslim in disguise’ is a catch-all for all the stuff you’d forgotten to blame Islam for, because you hadn’t thought of it yet.

            • Adam Carter

              But how do your ‘normal, everyday worshippers’ among the muslims relate to the violent ones. What do they think of them? To what extent do they approve of their goals?
              The ‘moderate’ muslims share the same desire to see Islam ruling the world; they just prioritise other things in their lives at the moment.
              Find a ‘normal, everyday worshipper’, inject him with a truth drug, and ask him if he’d prefer the West that he lives in to stay more or less as it is or to change into an Islamic society.
              Read the Koran, read the Hadith.
              EVERYTHING, that the jihadists do is approved of in those texts.

              • Nick1963

                I couldn’t say with any degree of honesty how they feel about violent practitioners of Islam. I’ve never asked. However, from what I read in newspapers, hear on radio, see on TV I don’t see a burning radical streak that infect all Islam. Most seem perfectly normal – no different from you or me, other than their chosen religion.

                As for everything being in the Koran and Hadith, I’m sure it is, just as you can find violent instruction in the (old testament, mainly) Bible. And in the Torah – which goes without saying since it is, essentially, the old testament of the aforementioned Bible.

                All are old books instructing pre-Christians, early Christians and Muslims how to live a life in the Middle East of their age. Should they be taken at face value today? Almost certainly not. But many do – Jews with the Torah, Christians with the Bible and Muslims with the Koran.

                I just don’t think they hold much relevance today in absolute terms – writing as a (nominal) Christian.

                Some Christians have no less whacky, dark-age views; take a look at the ‘creationist’ who, contrary to all modern scientific and empirical evidence insist that their literal view of the world (including the ludicrous notion that it’s no more than 10,000 years old) is the only truth. I and most other people think that’s crackers and weird view. But they’re absolutely serious, and have – in my view – too much say in too many US schools and, sadly, schools in other countries where their -fundamentalist – religious views hold sway.

                To your other main point, I simply don’t agree that even ‘normal’ Muslims wish to take over the world – it’s a misreading of the Koran that is ascribed to the larger Muslim population for absolutely no reason other than to vilify all, because it’s easy to do so. That is, certainly a fundamentalist belief, but not one of the ordinary everyday Muslim. They just want to get on with their lives like everyone else.

                • cmflynn

                  ‘…….it’s a misreading of the Koran……’

                  So you Nick, as a non-Muslim, can make a correct reading of the Koran?

                • Nick1963

                  I can read the Koran – as can anyone – and make my own interpretation. Yes.

                • patrickirish

                  “The extreme fundamentalists are more akin to the wackier, nominally,
                  Christian sects that pop up in the US every few years… Jim Jones’
                  Disciples of Christ or David Koresh’s Branch Davidians…” , “I can read the Koran – as can anyone – and make my own interpretation. Yes” – you really don’t have a clue do you!

                • Nick1963

                  A clue about what? You’ll have to give me a clue – because, apparently, I’m too stupid to understand something that hasn’t been described…

                • patrickirish

                  I apologise for my tone and comment, but Christian fundamentalists are not proselytizing hate, murder and destruction from one end of the globe to the other, and what you think the Koran says is irrelevant. Ordinary Muslims will vote for Sharia if they had a chance – every poll says that.

                • Nick1963

                  Here’s the problem with Christian fundamentalists. In many places they do proselytize, they are seen as spreading hate and destruction of whatever state they are operating in. Right or wrong, that is a fact.

                  Christianity my be seen as being relatively benign in that regard, by Christians, however, historically, it has been far from benign. Wars have been fought in the name of Christianity – fighting, bloody, murderous wars, not notionally harmless spiritual wars.

                  There is, at the moment, a view/theory (call it what you will) that more than a few fundamentalist Christian sects – mainly (but not only) based in the US – are very happy for the Israeli/Palestinian… disagreements… never be resolved because those sects are so convinced that we are at the advent of the biblical ‘End of Days’ that they want to be in a ‘free’ Israel when the day does actually come, because they don’t think they’ll be allowed anywhere near that benighted land should the Palestinians have a piece of it.

                  The theory goes on that Israeli Prime Minister, Mr Netanyahu, is quite happy to go along with that if it means he can continue to make excuses about why he’s not prepared to negotiate with the Palestinian leadership and, at the same time, take the US annual multi-billion dollar contribution to Israeli national defence…

                  As for Shariah, sure they’d have it if they could. I’d have some UK laws I quite like when I’m in the US (driving on the left… more roundabouts… Earl Grey Tea available at half the price it is at the moment in Whole Foods (and mandatory for sale in Trader Joe’s)… UK made KitKat’s instead of the abominable US versions… but it’s not going to happen.

            • WTF

              Funny thing is, despite there being many variations of Christianity, a few versions of Judaism or Hinduism not one variant of these religions is out to terrorize the world, kill people, rape young girls and cause mayhem. Only one religion namely Islam earns that unique distinction in having a ‘flavour’ of a 5th century death cult among its various versions and is the ONLY religion today where two major factions of a religion are killing each other in a prolonged civil war.

              That should tell you something, surely !

              • Leon Wolfeson

                Yes, it says you’re ignorant of what Muslims pracrtce and do, and they’re simply your first target.

                • WTF

                  I was referring to religion not Muslims but its still factually correct that Islam is the only religion which at this moment in time is having a civil war between Shia and Sunni, I suggest you check it out as you’re the ignorant one.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Ah, so you’re even more of a collectivist. And where’s the fighting in say …Indonesia?

                  There’s fighting in one area of the world, not quite your narrative. Moreover, you’re ignoring ongoing religious conflicts elsewhere. Deaths still continue, if it at a lower rate than during the troubles, in NI for example…between Christian sects.

                • WTF

                  There is no civil war in NI, only the middle east in

                  Iraqi Civil War, since 2 January 2014
                  Second Libyan Civil War, since 16 May 2014
                  Yemeni Civil War, since 19 March 2015

                  Look it up you moron !

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  So you deny the entire modern history of NI? My my!

                  “U MORON”

                  I understand your blind bigotry just fine, as you fail to prove a civil war in Indonesia, for example.

                • WTF

                  History, its over ! but

                  Iraqi Civil War, since 2 January 2014
                  Second Libyan Civil War, since 16 May 2014
                  Yemeni Civil War, since 19 March 2015

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  So you deny the ongoing violence in NI, check.

                • WTF

                  Just go to wikipedia as that’s where I cut and pasted the current civil wars from.

                  Iraqi Civil War, since 2 January 2014
                  Second Libyan Civil War, since 16 May 2014
                  Yemeni Civil War, since 19 March 2015

                • Nick1963

                  There’s a strong chance that the NI ‘Troubles’ are about to reignite.

                • WTF

                  Oh well, if it kicks off again perhaps we should leave them to it.

              • Nick1963

                I don’t disagree – ironic isn’t it. And (ignoring the centuries of enmity between Sunni’s and Shia) the current gouts of murderous violence have followed – as many predicted – the utterly self-serving 2003 Iraq invasion, with all it’s destorted (a kind description) for the reasons for that disastrous war. Like him or loath him, Saddam had kept a lid on the inter-Muslim violence for decades. Now a partisan Iraqi government (or sorts) that has left a vacuum that ISIS/ISIL/Daesh are now filling – with all the consequences that brings.

                • WTF

                  Glad we agree here if not on everything and I apologies if I’ve been a bit uncivil a few times but I’ve enjoyed debating the issues with you. Wish I could say the same about one or two others here but that’s life.

                • Nick1963

                  No need to apologise – I don’t take it personally. I enjoy robust debate too – rarely get to do it much these days what with flitting between the UK and US for work and family reasons.

                • Nick1963

                  …and if I ever appear to have taken offence at anything, I really haven’t 😀

            • mark

              So your either extremely ignorant, whatsmore with all the information available, WILLFULLY ignorant or your the common muslim doing its warare lying.

              • Nick1963

                I’m sure that started out making sense in your head when you began typing it…

                • mark

                  Troll will now be ignored.

                • Nick1963

                  No skin off my nose. So far our interaction has consisted of one roundabout way of accusing me of being an idiot, which, kind of, backfired – nice way to introduce yourself, by the way… and one sentence that was so garbled it made absolutely no sense. Troll yourself.

            • mark

              Lying quranderphal troll.

              • Nick1963

                I think it’s time to refer you to Pressdram v. Arkell.

          • cmflynn

            Nick is a character one meets often but is no less dangerous for that. His logic goes like this: ‘All religions are basically the same. The C of E is a religion. Therefore all religions are basically similar to the C of E differing only in trivial details. Those who are obviously not similar to the C of E? Well, these are ‘extremists’ who have misinterpreted their religion.’

            How someone like Nick, from outside a religion, can decide who is a true believer and who is a heretic is something which is never addressed.

            It is very difficult for those such as Nick to change their mindset no matter what the evidence, as you can see from his answer below.

            • Nick1963

              I haven’t seen such pompous – not to say hypocritical – twaddle since my last school report, nearly 40 years ago.

              Here’s the extraordinarily hypocritical part; ignoring the fact you have no idea who I am or what my religious knowledge consists of, “how can you”, cmflynn, “decide who is a true believer and who is a heretic”?

              Address that one yourself. I can absolutely say I don’t judge people without knowing them – even a little bit.

              And my religious views – or lack thereof – have bugger all to do with the C of E.

              • cmflynn

                Sorry to have upset you but you do say on one of your long comments that you were a nominal member of the C of E.

                • Nick1963

                  Yes – nominal being the operative word. I was baptised and confirmed into the C of E and last attended a service (that wasn’t either a marriage, Christening or Christmas Carols) when I was 18 – and only then because the school I attended required attendance at Sunday communion.

                  When I’m in the US I do attend my mother-in-law’s Lutheran church on a Sunday morning, as I did this morning, because she’d get very upset if I (or my wife) didn’t. :D…

                  Am I a ‘true believer’? No. But that’s another story…

        • WTF

          ALL immigrants to the USA have to declare their religion on immigration documents, its what they do, why should Muslims be exempt ?

          • Nick1963

            No – immigrants don’t HAVE to declare their religion.

            • WTF

              I beg to differ as I had to on a 20 page application form just 2 years ago.

              • Leon Wolfeson

                No, he’s getting at blocking those who can’t prove they’re of an acceptable religion.
                Forever, since his actions will cause hate, and lead to massive divisions and radicalism.

                • WTF

                  Obviously you don’t believe in criminal checks to vet any or all immigrants so you’re more than at ease to see repeats of Paris or San Bernandino massacres, gang rapes in Rotherham, sexual attacks in Cologne and more so there’s no point in discussing this any further.

                  You have no morals or regard to ‘at risk girls’ in Europe from un-vetted immigrants no matter what their ethnicity which leads me to believe you have similar tendencies in that direction. As an enabler of these sick perverts, its a close call who is worse, they or people like you that enable them, but either way you’re one sick individual.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  “Obviously”.

                  Nope, in your head. I’m not, like you, for your mass hate and your selective caring about crime. Your saying that I care about all crime means I have no morals, as you threaten all girls who are not white and of your ideology…as you criticize those nasty tourists and business visitors…

                  As you “believe” your old fashioned eugenics, and blame me for law and order, as you hate on Jews and the left, we’re “sick” to you for not blindly hating people for not being just like you, and not wanting you to have the special rights you want before the law.

                  You have not discussed anything on this, merely attacked those not like you.

                • WTF

                  Well done, we’re back on your Jew hate thing you used to go on about before and made yourself look a complete ahole.

                  You don’t agree with criminal checks on immigrants and by definition, you wouldn’t agree with CRB checks for those who work with kids as its the same sort of risks.

                  By not wanting criminal checks, you’re an enabler of criminal activities of all types whereas I want to protect everyone no matter their age, gender or ethnicity by having these vetting procedures.

                  There’s nothing else that needs to be said, amongst other low lifes, you’re the pedophiles friend !

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  So you say facts make people look like aholes, to you.

                  As you make up fantasies, entirely in your head, and blame me on them. I do not agree with what you are laying out, which is your view and nothing to do with me… as you spew Jewhate at me, making wild accusations based on your own, entirely origional fantasies.

                  You want to “protect” people from those different to you, there’s a sharp difference. You’ve stated your selective caring about crime before as well. As you show, given your defamation of me here for being a British Jew.

                • WTF

                  You’re nothing like any of the Jewish friends I have, is it a figment of your imagination as all the Jews I know are lucid, sane, intelligent and very nice people.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  I’m “nothing like” non-existent people, you know no Jews you state firmly and for the record, right.
                  You’d not get near a Jew without losing it, from what I can see.

                  Thanks for that, again, defamer, all because I believe in equality before the law – an important principle in Jewish law, in fact.

                • WTF

                  I used to offer my mobile DJ services to a Jewish charity organization years ago so yes, I got along with them all very well. That’s why I can’t believe you are Jewish with an attitude like yours.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Yes, I’m sure harassment of a Jewish Charity went down well.

                  As you show your Jewhate based on your ignorance of Jews, how dare I believe in equality before the law, support Britain, not mindlessly hate those just like me etc.

                  I’m a Jew, both as such, nothing you can do can change that. Fact. Your whining can’t change that.

                • WTF

                  Now you’ve gone from the sublime to the ridiculous with your personality disorder issues.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Ah yes, the “personality disorder” of not being just like you and your harassment of a charity.

              • Nick1963

                Yes, I have experienced of the US visa application and immigration process. My wife is a US citizen. Do you mean I-130? The I-120 is a student visa.

                I have never been asked, either in written form or verbally, to state my religion. There are, as you say, myriad other questions, but not that one. And there’s probably a reason for that – the First Amendment.

                • WTF

                  My mistake, I did mean the I-130 but that’s just the initial form to start the application off. 5 Months after USCIS had ‘processed’ this form along with supporting documents, I had to go to the IS website where there was a 10 page flow charted on line document to fill in which delved into much more detail including who my parents were, where they lived, my ethnicity, religion and all manner of other personal details. Its all that information that they required before they then requested police certificates from any country I had resided in for 10 years or more.

                  There’s also another mistake in that the visa the San Bernandino terrorist used was in fact a K-1 visa not a B-1 visa but the point I made is still valid in that at that time, police certificates (vetting) were optional although it might have changed now as a result of that massacre and a public outcry.

                • Nick1963

                  Well, I’ve a green card renewal coming up in the next few months, so I’ll see if it’s in with the I-90 questions. It wasn’t last time. Either that or I didn’t see it 😀

            • Cyril Sneer

              Perhaps you should do your homework before coming out with that.

              • Nick1963

                At least your nom-de-plume seems apposite.

      • Cyril Sneer

        He won’t have any. They’re all about slander and censorship remember.

    • Sue Smith

      Look much deeper, my friend. You surely have analytical skills that would suffice to make the link between repressive political correctness and the Frankenstein monster the American people now face. A mediocre and inexperienced high-school student would be capable of drawing such dots. The genii has escaped from the bottle and now the “progressives” want to wash their hands of it, just like Pontius Pilate. Ain’t goooona happen.

      • Nick1963

        I don’t disagree that American conservative politics has been leading to this for situation for a while; the Republican party’s journey to the right, eventually being hi-jacked by the ‘Christian’ (and I say that as an occasionally church-going CofE member) right, and more recently by the insurgent Tea Party – a party within a party. Mr Trump is the result of the anger the deliberately non-cooperative GOP has whipped up over the last decade. They (the GOP) only have themselves to blame for it. If they believe Rubio is the most acceptable candidate they have, that just shows how far off-beam they have become.

        I’m not sure that ‘political correctness’ has anything to do with anything at all.

        Trump is a blow-hard, bloviating populist. He would be a disaster for America first, and then the rest of the world as President.

        • Sue Smith

          We disagree over the causes. I do think repressive political correctness and state-sanctioned censorship has a LOT to do with the current predicament.

          The GOPs – the party of Lincoln – so anatomized as to be a parody of its former self. This is not only tragic but essentially dangerous for an effective adversarial republican democracy. I say this because we face many of the same issues in Australia; fundamentalist pressure groups trying to ride roughshod over the political landscape.

          A good discussion to have!!

          • Nick1963

            It is a good discussion to have – but America isn’t having that discussion, and Trump is the the last person who wants that discussion. The media – certainly in the US – has not seriously questioned what he’s really offering the electorate.

            And what he’s offering isn’t very much, in all seriousness. He has no credible policies. On top of which he wants more ‘state-sanctioned censorship’; that is what his absurd utterances on the First Amendment are really about; to cow a supine media, to deter legitimate investigative journalism.

            We do agree that the incapability of the GOP to act like a real political party is dangerous to US democracy. That said, two party politics can go that way when the fringes of the parties become the mainstream; hasn’t happened to the Democrats yet. But it easily could.

            • WTF

              “The media – certainly in the US – has not seriously questioned what he’s really offering the electorate.”

              Exactly, they’ve been too busy concentrating on trying to destroy him as a person than to look at his politics as they know his policies gel with a large percentage of America and they don’t want to add oxygen to it. Unfortunately for the MSM by concentrating on the person they’ve lost the plot and he’s winning despite their attempts at character assassination.

              • Nick1963

                He doesn’t have any – ANY – credible policies. Not one. Even the pronouncements that have everyone hot under the collar (both supporters and detractors) won’t get close to being enacted, mostly because they’re either unconstitutional or otherwise illegal. But those are the rabble rousing ‘policies’ that are, at least, keeping him ‘in the game’. For now anyway.

                He’s a charlatan snake-oil salesman who will, eventually get found out. Hopefully before it’s too late.

                • patrickirish

                  Build a fence – credible, temporary halt to Muslim immigration – credible, stop foreign outsourcing – tricky but credible.

                • red2black

                  People must fear what may happen in America itself if Mr Trump became President.
                  What would the consequences be for Muslims, Mexicans and others already living in America? Stopping outsourcing sounds a bit ‘command economy’, and I imagine businesspeople of all kinds would be extremely unhappy about it.

                • WTF

                  As I understand it he employs a lot of Mexicans in his construction business so he’s hardly going to send them back home. As for Muslims, if they are legally resident and aren’t a terrorist threat then just like anyone else, no probs, they’ll stay.

                  Outsourcing work has been the bane of all western countries but especially the UK & USA. In the UK the tax payer has had to pick up the unemployment tab for companies outsourcing services in places like India which in my experience ends up with some idiot who is clueless about my bank account, can’t speak English and raises all sorts of issues like security. It wouldn’t be a bad thing to put tariffs on companies that outsource and cost the country money.

                • red2black

                  Outsourcing maximises profits. I’ve a friend who worked for UK company that relocated its production side to China a few years ago. Once the move proved negative in terms of profits, production was brought back to the UK. Whether the reassurances you mention will convince Muslims, Mexicans and others that they have nothing to fear if they’re legal, remains to be seen.

                • WTF

                  I think Trumps test over Latinos will be seen today over the voting in Florida. There’s a surprising number of legal Hispanic US citizens who are backing Trump on his immigration policies as they went through the immigration ‘mill’ to get in legally and can’t see why others should get a free pass. The progressive liberals have got it wrong by suggesting its only white voters who want tougher immigration rules as in reality ALL sane legal residents or citizens want the same thing. They’ve tried the race card against Trump but most people of any ethnic origin have seen through this dirty trick. The law is the law and there shouldn’t be exceptions for ‘undocumented democrats’ !

                • red2black

                  That’s an interesting point. At about 4.3 million, they make up about a quarter of Florida’s population, and the top-end guesstimate for illegals is around 1 million. Perhaps an amnesty would be easier to police.

                • WTF

                  The problem with amnesties, there’s always another one a decade or so later. Its like never following through with a ‘sanction’ against a child who constantly misbehaves at home, they just repeat the same bad behavior. Even worse is letting thugs or those caught with illegal guns off with a slapped wrist, far too many whine that they didn’t mean it and wont do it again but as we know, the recidivism rates are still far too high at 40% or so and that’s just the ones who are caught. It might be true that an amnesty is easier to police but it never works as a deterrent and illegal immigration just continues.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Yes yes, far too low recidivism and how dare the borders not be sealed against the Other…

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Ah yes, people who are not for hating the Other are insane, as you claim facts are “cards”, and as you support persecuting poor citizens for their race, check.

                • Nick1963

                  The fence is already there… he’s advocating building a wall – and then, apparently, trying to blackmail Mexico into paying for it. It won’t happen – but, I agree, it is the most credible. Halting Muslim immigration? Well, only if he follows through on his stated aim of destroying the First Amendment… and he may have a problem with the Supreme Court there…

                  Then there’s stopping foreign outsourcing (one I happen to hope does happen – because if it happens in the US it will have to happen everywhere else); but that in itself is a problem, as it will mean renegotiating every single international trade deal in the world, Do you have any idea how long just one trade deal takes before all the signatories sign on the dotted line?

                  And that’s ignoring the fact of Trump’s own business dealings. Where are ‘Trump’ branded ties made? China. And his shirts? In the sweatshops of Bangladesh. Why? Because they’re far cheaper to produce there.

                  There is nothing at all credible about either Mr Trump personally or as a Presidential candidate.

                • patrickirish

                  If Mr trump was in a field of candidates, from both parties, who were credible, decent, motivated by concern for the people of the US that would be an issue. As he is not what counts is assaulting the entrenched corruption of the US political class and he is best able to do that, I think, perhaps Bernie may be a goer, but he has issues of credibility viz his blaming Trump for the assaults on Trump peopleetc.

                • Nick1963

                  Well – there we do agree. The field of candidates this year has been, largely, dreadful, and most (if not all) would never have made it as candidates in a politically less fractious environment. But the GOP’s awful slate of people is, largely self-inflicted. And, as I said in another comment yesterday, the very fact that Rubio is the preferred candidate for the GOP hierarchy just shows how out of whack they have become with the mainstream.

                  Even if you loathed Bill Clinton (and I understand why many do) there was one thing he was absolutely right about. You don’t win by appealing to the fringes. And that applies to the left as much as to the right. It’s why, up until about 20 years ago, you could barely put a cigarette paper between the core beliefs of the GOP and the Dems… the differences were mainly nuance – in government that is. What they said among themselves was different.

                  I get why people don’t like Hillary – don’t trust her. But if in the current circumstances I had a vote (which I don’t, though my wife does) and it came to a choice between Hillary and Trump, it would have to be Hillary – at least she’s not threatening to trash the constitution for entirely self-serving reasons, or threatening ‘policies’ that will destroy most, if not all, existing trade deals and from there, very probably to an economic cataclysm that will make the 30’s look like party-time. And from there who knows what?

                  At least with Hillary the world will be here in 4 years time. Hopefully in that time the GOP will have regained the senses they began losing 3 decades ago, and will have a slate of credible, sensible candidates.

                  Oh – by the way. Bernie may not be wrong in blaming Trump and his team for the violence in Chicago… why did he chose that particular university – the most diverse in the US – to speak at? That’s only one question among many concerning Trump and the violence that seems to accompany him at almost every speaking event and his culpability for it.

                • WTF

                  Broad sweeping assertions but no examples, p*** off and do some research first !

              • Leon Wolfeson

                Funny, plenty of discussion of his big-government, utterly non-conservative plans.

                Not to mention how he’s come out against freedom and for mass internet censorship, for example.

                • WTF

                  Correction, there hasn’t been any discussions just attacks.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  So you decry all discussion from all sorts of people, in all sorts of media, etc.

                  Nope, all magically “attacks” to you, in your hate of debate and discussion.

                • WTF

                  I’m waiting for you to provide a discussion piece that the media had over Trump rather than just attacks.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  You’re being a self-entitled snob again? Right.

                  Your refusal to google…

                • WTF

                  Its pointless with you because when I have provided links for facts in the past you go off on some Jew hate rant that has nothing to do with the subject due to your attention deficit disorder issues. I had thought ADD was a child hood problem but clearly you never got over it or went from there straight to senile dementia.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Ah yes, more wild accusations, Jews are ADD now, blah blah…Jews are senile, blah blah

                  Jews like me are pointless, blah blah.

                  How dare I not follow your ideology of hate, etc.
                  (Your few random links, why…)

                • WTF

                  You’re the only one with ADD issues with a self hate complex to boot.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Ah yes, I’m the only Jew you can find right now

                  “U GOT ADD, JEW”
                  “U SELF HATE, JEW”

                  Right, I hear you just fine. Thanks for confirming you don’t know any Jews offline. And all because I don’t believe exactly as you do!

          • Leon Wolfeson

            A quite sad series of excuses for extremism, Ms. Bien Pensant.

            You and your extremists…

            • WTF

              All extremists want to deny freedom of speech which is exactly your position assuming you don’t go off on some tangent. That means you can say what you like and we can say what we like even if you disagree with it. Jihadists are obviously the worst example of extremists as they’ll cut your head off any innocent person if they are in the mood or something has p***ed them off and based on your inane posts, you support these feral sub humans. Best look in the mirror to see an apologist for extremism instead of name calling.

              • Leon Wolfeson

                So… you make excuse for other violent groups.

                But no, I don’t support you, as you say I as a moderate leftist British Jew…. hmm, no, that’s just your Islamism speaking there, I’m fine with free speech.

        • WTF

          The Rep party hasn’t gone right any more than the Tories have. They’ve both gone progressive liberal which is why people are looking at Trump to fix the countries issues.

          • Nick1963

            I’ll agree that the UK Tories aren’t that far to the right right. I would disagree, though, that the GOP isn’t; they are far more right-wing now than they were even 10 years ago. And it has been a gradual move over the last 20-25 years, most recently accelerated by the insurgent Tea Party ‘movement’. The only UK analogy I can think of is when Mr Corbyn’s friends in Militant invaded the UK Labour Party in the 70’s and 80’s. Militant (proto-socialst/communist) were no more principled traditional Labour ‘true believers’ than the Tea Party are principled traditional Republican ‘true believers’. Trump is the next step along from that. How he was allowed to stand as a Republican candidate in the first place is a question the GOP leadership must now be asking themselves.

    • Augustus

      Fascism was a political movement formed by Mussolini which he defined as a merger of socialism and corporate power into a totalitarian socialist single party. There’s nothing far right about Fascism, or N*zism for that matter. They are both socialist ideologies based on a dictatorship of the proletariat.

      • Nick1963

        If you say so.

        • patrickirish

          That’s right Nick, resort to the flippant when you lack the knowledge or the intelligence to rebut serious posters.

          • red2black

            Fascism and National Socialism both reject the idea of Class Struggle and a proletarian dictatorship. They emphasise Race and Nation. Many prisoners in Dachau were there to be persuaded that their class snobbery was misguided. Even so, Marx did base his idea of Class Struggle on French Historians’ ideas about Race Struggle, as he pointed out in a letter to Engels.

          • Nick1963

            Yup. He said nothing worth rebutting. Augustus has a point of view that, I think it’s fairly obvious, I don’t agree with. It’s a side point that’s not worth wasting time debating. I could, but I can’t be bothered.

        • Cyril Sneer

          Well you tried your best.

      • red2black

        Nationalism in Italy; Nationalism and Racism in Germany.
        Race and Nation.
        Oswald Spengler defined the National Socialism in which Hitler believed.

    • WTF

      Obviously your song book is completely different to most other peoples. Saying that Muslim immigrants are potentially a security threat when you don’t have adequate vetting in place is telling it as it is, its not racist or fascist but the truth. After two attacks in Paris and one in California where many people were slaughtered by Muslim terrorists some of who were migrants, its quite reasonable to suggest that the vetting procedure should be fixed and immigration suspended until it is.

      If Ford or VW had a known safety failure with a car which would you prefer, ignore it and have people die or stop shipments of cars until the problem is fixed ?

      • Nick1963

        Well, to start with, I disagree with the premiss that Muslim immigrants (and, in this case, without beating about the bush, we are saying ‘Muslim’ means Arab or Pakistani ‘looking’) are any more of a potential threat to security than any other group, racial, national or religious. If Richard Reid had been ‘racially profiled’ in that way, he wouldn’t have been caught (regardless of the fact that he wasn’t anyway before trying to detonate his shoe). Neither would the Boston bomb brothers.

        Moving to other terrorist groups, Timothy McVeigh was neither a Muslim nor an Arab before blowing up his bomb in Oklahoma. Columbine… Aurora… Sandy Hook… et al. None of the perpetrators were Muslim – or anything other than white boys with guns and a grudge. Then there’s Charleston and Dylan Roof…

        I go to my own – too close – experience of terrorism. December 17th 1983. Christmas shopping one Saturday with my girlfriend. Brompton Road, London. Then a bomb detonated where we’d been walking. A bomb targeting the Harrods store. 5 minutes was the difference between life and death for one or both of us. 6 people died (3 police officers). Over 90 were injured. The PIRA claimed responsibility. White. European. Christians.

        The same PIRA funded by Boston, Massachusetts based NORAID. It was a time when, if you lived or worked in London you became used to multiple bomb alerts – real and, more often false (far more frequent, but no less ‘terrifying’ – affecting the everyday. You got used to it. But you also learned to distrust anyone with an Irish accent. Was it right? Of course it wasn’t. The IRA/PIRA/Real IRA and whatever else they called themselves when they fell out with each other were, in reality a tiny bunch of nutters.

        I accept, of course, that ISIS/ISIL aren’t a tiny bunch in quite the same way, and the real headcases within are rather more murderous, but they’re mostly in the Middle East. And the various agencies, both in the US and Europe, that track them seem to have them pretty well tied up. That’s not to say, either, that they should lower their guard. As tragic as both the Parisian killing sprees were, the most recent seems to have been as a result of failings in the Belgian security services rather than the French. But one must also remember that, for France, there is a colonial legacy partly in play that is unique to France and north Africa in particular.

        But, as understandable as racial profiling may be. It isn’t right. Nor is to enforce a register solely of Muslims, as Mr Trump has, at least, implied. Not in a free, democratic country and society striving to uphold those same values and inculcate them around the less free world.

        Since 9/11 we, in the West, have lost too many of our freedoms. For instance, Singapore is, famously, the most surveilled country in the world – more CCTV cameras per capita than anywhere else. Singapore is a small city state, a one party (albeit elected) state. Guess what the second most surveilled country is. It’s your country – and mine. The UK. The cradle of modern parliamentary democracy.

        The usual excuse for the CCTV cameras hanging from every small town and village lampost is “Well, if you’ve done nothing wrong, you’ve nothing to worry about”. I’d rather not be under suspicion that I ‘might’ be up to something in the first place.

        That’s just a more obvious example of the freedoms we have lost in the name of the nonsensical ‘War on Terror’.

        Comparing sentient humans with inanimate objects is a bit odd and unhelpful.

        Eventually, we have to talk with these people – however disagreeable that may be – and work a way through the maze. That’s the lesson of the the British and Irish experience. It’s also the lesson of the South African experience.

        It’s also the lesson of Iraq, in a different way; be careful what you wish for – you might just get it, or something worse.

        • Adam Carter

          There’s no point talking to jihadists because they have an unbending workld view that their religion must dominate the world and others must be, at best, 2nd class citizens in their world.
          They can’t and won’t dilute that vision, therefore talking will do no good. They must be suppressed by the minimum violence necessary. If the minimum violence means dropping the big one on them then let’s drop thr big one.

          • Nick1963

            Jihadists – perhaps. But not all Muslims are jihadists, any more than all Christians are followers of Jim Jones or David Koresh. A tiny minority. There are, possibly, as many Christian nutters as there are jihadists. Let’s not forget that the US was founded by English Puritan Christian fundamentalists who couldn’t fine a home in England for their non-conformist brand(s) of Christianity. Even the Baptists.

            Many of those sects and branches of Christianity are, even today, ‘unbending in their world view that others must be, at best, 2nd class citizens’. That’s the problem when one fundamentalist religion butts up against another… that the problem with the three mainstream Abrahamic religions, at the ‘fundamentalist’ level in particular – they can’t get on with one another because they fail to understand one another; worse, they fail to WANT to understand one another, leave alone accept their differences while claiming the same basic God.

            However, just ‘dropping the big one’, as you advocate seems a rather extreme over-reaction… and, almost certainly, a war crime.

            • cmflynn

              ‘…….not all Muslims are jihadists…..’

              Yes, they are Nick, Jihad is park of the religion. A ‘Muslim’ who rejected jihad would not be accepted by other Muslims as Muslim at all.

              • Nick1963

                OK – I meant, and I would suspect you already know this , ‘jihadist’ in the generally (albeit, as you so joyfully point out, fundamentally wrong) accepted meaning of the word.

                I’d like to know what a ‘park of the religion’ is though…

        • WTF

          All very interesting as I also had my local pub in Woolwich blown up by the IRA just a mile away from where those un-vetted Muslims terrorist beheaded Lee Rigby. But thats the point isn’t it, if you identify a risk you put in place measures to try and prevent it happening unlike you who are prepared to see people die over ‘freedoms’.

          To use your feeble excuse lets abandon airport security as extremist Muslims don’t present a problem or lets not bother screening people attending football matches in Paris but thank goodness they did other wise a lot would have been killed that night.

          Life has threats from all sources inanimate objects or living, but at least with cars or planes its pretty easy to assess the risk but just because its a lot more difficult with sneaky Islamic jihadists doesn’t mean we should give up. So far, I along with millions of others have lost our freedoms due to Islamic terrorism so a bit of caution and proper vetting from known threats is only prudent.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah yes, mad people behead someone, so it’s PC bigory time for you.

            As you talk about thought crime theory, not security.
            As you try and abolish freedoms, and want less freedom thanks to your collectivist propaganda – which is also the best way to cause more division and make it easier for extremists. Not mention making mass hate more acceptable…

            • WTF

              When or if you ever you can regain cognitive sanity I’ll have a debate but your brain is mush and you’re not making any sense to anyone.

              • Leon Wolfeson

                Ah yes, if I ever agree with your far right….no debate, just voices raised together in hate, your closed-minded goal.

                As you talk about your goal of murdering me via turning my brain to mush, or whatever.

                As you claim to be “anyone”, collectivist.

                • WTF

                  You have never debated because you have never supplied any facts anyone could debate on but now I know you’ve really lost it again just as you did before you went on your rehabilitation break.

                  I see we’re now back to this weird conspiracy theory in you head where I or others want to kill you. Next you’ll be posting that I hate Jews or some such nonsense just like before but I had nothing to do with turning your brain to mush, you managed that all by yourself.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  So you deny any fact I’ve ever mentioned, as you spew some random garbage about “rehabilitation break”, showing you’re the one factually opposing debate via accusations of mental illness.

                  As you deny the far right thugs who tried to kill me. As you make excuses for them, and as you try and excuse Jewhate – your denial, in the midst of lies. As you claim I killed myself, showing how odd and extreme you are.

                • WTF

                  Yawn !

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Yea, those boring facts I know, Mr. Garbage Defamer.

                • WTF

                  Yawn, still waiting !

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Yes, still being a self-entitled whiner, right, Mr. Garbage Defamer.

        • Penny

          Nick – while I am in agreement with your views on surveillance in the UK. I am inclined to think that your comment that “eventually we have to talk with these people” is vague.

          I am basing my comment on the assumption that by “these people” you mean the jihadists? If so – which ones? There are so many of them. Some are fighting in common cause; some are targeting their own government, some are fighting against each other. Some are large – like IS (and perhaps Boko Haram whose fighting force Amnesty puts at 15,000 with the caveat that it is likely to be much bigger) – some are small. I would be inclined to think that most, if asked, would say that their long term goal was for Islam to dominate. Their particular affiliation, of course! Which is a whole other war. Even the one-time Iranian president, Ahmadinejad, was confident that one day, Islam will cover the world. Religious people tend to believe their own texts whether interpreted benignly or aggressively.

          But let’s say that in your comment about having to talk with these people you meant the currently better known IS. “Talk” in this sense is just a vague concept. What is generally involved in “talks” is “negotiation”. Negotiation means compromise. What do you think we, in the West, can give up in order to satisfy a group who have set themselves up as a global caliphate? This isn’t at all like the British and Irish experience because the Irish weren’t attempting to spread an ideology at a global level.

        • WTF

          I would add to this to your long post that unfortunately there are nut jobs in America who get hold of guns and massacre people just like Breivik did in Norway but the reasons are explainable as these people have serious mental problems rather than being encouraged or inspired by the same religion.

          I fully support the right to bear arms however I also support any back ground checks that can be improved upon to try and mitigate against events like Columbine. Just as relevant are all the deaths by drive by shootings in places like Chicago from illegally owned guns as the only thing that will reduce that threat is more rigorous police stop and frisk followed up by 10 years for first offense of carrying an illegal gun.

          “But you also learned to distrust anyone with an Irish accent.” – I object most strongly to that insinuation as I worked in London all through the IRA campaign and had fiends locally who were Irish as well. There was never an anti Irish sentiment in the capital as a result of IRA bombings as for the most part they were an inconvenience rather than Islams indiscriminate bus / tube attack years later. In fact, there was some sympathy for the Catholic minority in Belfast from people like myself and by far the majority of Londoners didn’t take sides, we just wanted the problems to be resolved. I re-iterate, you cannot conflate Islamic terrorism with the IRA bombings, the reasons were different, the methods were different and the motivation were poles apart.

          As far as surveillance is concerned, it cuts both ways as it now monitors the police by us with smartphones as they monitor us with surveillance cameras. Its not a good idea, but it is what it is.

          I do have to disagree however not only with the conflation of the IRA & ISIS but also with S. Africa. Firstly ISIS weren’t around when UK born Islamic terrorists blew up London and they were suicide bombers which the IRA were never. On lessons being learned we had Blair broker a deal to let IRA terrorists off the hook but recently soldiers from Bloody Sunday have again been targeted for possible criminal investigation. In the troubles of Northern Ireland bad things were done on both sides I’m pretty sure but why are we looking at events that happened all those years ago when IRA terrorist were let off.

          What was learned from South Africa, not a lot as those in power have the money and those at the bottom whatever their color have nothing. Its the same story but worse in Zimbabwe where the majority of people there have exchanged food, work, health care and shelter for a voting slip.

          The only lessons we should learn from Iraq or the middle east is to let them get on with whatever they are doing and stay the h*** away.

          • Nick1963

            Well, your experience of life in 1980’s London seems somewhat different than mine. Certainly, there was a sympathy with the majority – Catholic and Protestant – in NI as a general principle, but there was also a distrust of anyone you didn’t know who had an Irish accent – absurd as that was for some of us with Irish relatives, some of whom actually had no accent other than an English one. I had Irish friends, colleagues and neighbours too.

            That said, if I seem to be trying to conflate Irish with Islamic terrorism, that was not the intention. The intent was to point out the lessons we can learn on how that conflict was resolved with the Good Friday agreement, as well as how South Africa’s Apartheid history was dealt with by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Both were good examples of apparently implacable enemies being brought to understand that each other’s enemy wasn’t quite as implacable as each thought.

            That the good that the TRC did in South Africa during Mandela’s presidency is now being squandered is not an indictment of the process, but of the small men who followed Mandela. In NI the process is holding – just. There is a round of murders and bombings going on at the moment, but is relatively minor by comparison with the 70’s and 80’s.

            Unless we wish to live in a perpetual state of distrust and being ever war-ready, we are going to have to talk to ‘them’ – once we find out who ‘they’ are. And yes, Penny, that may mean negotiation and compromise. I wouldn’t begin to guess what those compromises may be but it’s clear that the Israel/Palestine issue needs dealing with, as does the US (and other western countries) relationship with Saudi Arabia – who, if reports are correct, seem to be one of the major funders of Islamic violence.

    • George

      Reading your many comments here on Trump gives the impression you are trying to be reasonable and balanced on the subject of Muslims and Islam.

      Your basic argument is that, yes, Muslims have committed acts of terrorism in the West and elsewhere, but so have other groups, such as the Christian IRA, and we don’t call for a ban on Christians.

      Such an analogy is entirely illogical and fails to understand the nature of Islam.

      No terrorist group the West has had to deal with has ever been remotely like the Islamic terrorist groups today. Muslim terrorism is not about any particular political grievance, but an attempt to destroy western values and impose Muslim culture on the West.

      Muslim violence comes from the nature of Islam itself. Yes, not all Muslims are prepared to be violent, but even there, polls show a surprising number of Muslims in the West supporting violence.

      In democratic elections in Egypt, a majority voted for the Muslim Brotherhood. Muslims want sharia law.

      Islam really is different. America had, over the centuries, millions of European immigrants, but they all integrated and became Americans. That will not happen with Muslim immigrants, not in a million years.

      A large Muslim population in America will bring about large segregated Muslim communities (as we have in Europe) demanding their right to separate Muslim facilities and “respect” for their non-western values. If ever there is enough of them in the US they will vote for the American version of the Muslim Brotherhood.

      Trump’s style may offend your virtue-signalling nature, or your genuine niceness. But don’t fool yourself about Islam. Look at Europe and learn.

      • Nick1963

        Where do we have ‘segregated’ Muslim communities in Europe?

        SOME Muslims may want sharia law. Not all. Far from all, in fact. But, the ones that do are not going to get it though, where there is a majority against and the existing law prohibits it, even on a local level. That said, as far as the UK is concerned the Church of England has it’s own laws and courts, as do various Jewish congregations with the Beth Din courts. All, though, are subservient to English, Welsh and Scottish laws, and must operate within those laws. I would guess that there are similar arrangements throughout the rest of Europe. I’m guessing that Sharia courts would have to too. I would certainly expect them to – if they ever happen.

        I would guess – I don’t know – that Beth Din operate in the US too, within the constitution. Sharia courts would have to do the same there too.

        However, I don’t know enough about Sharia law to comment much further. I more than suspect you don’t either.

        I’ve looked at Islam in Europe – and, I’m sorry to disappoint you, but I don’t find it scary – certainly not as scary as the previously mentioned IRA and their fellow travellers on the ‘Loyalist’ (Loyal to whom, God only knows) side.

        Are there some Muslims who do terrible things? Unquestionably. Are there some Christians who do terrible things? Also, unquestionably. Are there some Jews, Hindu’s, Buddhists, even, who do terrible things? Unquestionably.

        As for Trump, yes his style offends, (so, for different reasons, does Hillary’s). What really worries me about Trump though, is not that he’s rude and bombastic (that’s US politics – which may be a part of the problem, actually). It’s that he lies so easily and then tries to finesse his first response. He may, just, be right about some things – I’m not sure what, so far – but there’s so much bullshit to wade through to get to it. And he has not one single policy that either makes sense, or can actually be enacted they way he’s selling it. He’s a snake-oil con-artist. But, bafflingly, people are buying – unquestioningly. And the people that are trying to ask the serious questions – the media – are abused and ignored for doing so.

        Rabble-rousing populism is not the way to go, in my view. It’s highly dangerous, and the comparisons some make with Hitler’s rise in the early 1930’s may not be that wide of the mark. And look what happened to Germany – and the rest of the world as a result within a decade.

    • Cyril Sneer

      The don’t vote for him.

      That’s how democracy works. You should try it and respect it.

      • Nick1963

        Thanks. I had no idea.

  • Space 1999

    Trump has been consistently – as George W Bush would say – misunderestimated.

    At the same time, he’s been sneered at, ridiculed, mocked and called dumb – simply because he offends the delicate PC sensibilities of the West ruling elites.

    Fascinatingly though, many US voters have seen through this and know that he speaks for them. Perhaps he’s not so thick after all? I think he’s far cannier than his enemies would like to pretend.

    • Sue Smith

      He’s not “thick” per se. Merely without tact or class. But, ask yourselves this; is this what it takes to push back against ingrained so-called ‘progressivism’ (the one step forward/two steps backwards kind) which is censoring the community, endangering civil society and destroying living standards and basic freedoms? We face the same problems in Australia with the Green Left. These are frightening ideologues and fundamentalists.

      When these same types were caught in the headlights and subjected to HUAC all those decades ago they screamed “victim”, “witch-hunt” and “persecution”. In reality, history has shown them to have been unpatriotic fools who admired the very ideology American men and women had just died for in their thousands to be liberated from.

      • Space 1999

        Indeed – this may be the ‘battering ram’ that’s needed to break down the politically correct ‘castle doors’…

        • Sue Smith

          Let’s hope it does serve a useful function and put people on notice. If they vote for Hillary they’ll get more PC verbiage and no increase in living standards. Talk about a rock and a hard place!!!

          • Space 1999

            I don’t think Trump is the new messiah, but he may well be the shock to the American body politic that causes it to start healing itself. Hilary is just a four year long prescription of Prozac and painkillers…

            • Sue Smith

              You’re too kind about Hillary.

              When your body politic is supported by judicial activism this makes it very hard to have some sort of “rapprochment”. I’m pessimistic about Clinton. She was, after all, such an ineffective feminist that she allowed her philandering husband to serially offend and humiliate her, without lifting a finger to stop it! That kind of Feminism I can do without. And it might offer a brief insight into a Clinton Mk 2 Presidency. Appeasement on steroids.

  • WTF

    So no one is blaming Obama, Clinton, Saunders, Cruz, Rubio and others for stirring the Trump pot and bringing it to life. No one is blaming main stream media and their progressive liberal journalists for stirring this pot. No one is blaming propaganda programs like the View with all their nasty female gossip mongers for stirring Trumps pot.

    Doesn’t it ever occur to all these ‘fear baiters’ and ‘racial dividers’ that if they hadn’t attacked Trump so viciously by wanton fear mongering, he might have gained far less support & traction than he has. They have created Trump more than anything else as it was they who misjudged the mood of the country and instead of fixing the problems in a measured way, they attacked his obvious truths. That there are problems that need fixing is not in question and Obama and the rest had an opportunity to fix them in a more civil manner but instead of doing this, they created even more divides that gave Trump fuel for his campaign.

    Then you add in all the liberal tossers from ABC or MSNBC putting their penny worth of divisiveness but boosting Trump at the same time. They even more than the White House have highlighted the very issues that Trump has brought up and its backfired spectacularly. They just re-inforced the issues Trump has raised but by attacking Trump all the time, offering no solutions and consequently many people gravitate towards the bullied and castigate the bullies. You created him and you need to live with the consequences as there’s little you can do now and last night was just another failure from the anti-Trump brigade.

    Whats next, are you going to try to assassinate him because you disagree with free speech ? It wouldn’t surprise me !

    • Sue Smith

      Totally agree with these comments. And I saw that Stephen Colbert had Bill Maher on his program evangelizing about Trump being dangerous and sticking his own boot into “conservatives”. He’s a vicious individual – vainglorious and totally misguided. When some of the things he says have a ring of truth you cannot believe them because he over-reaches on most everything.

      Failure to understand the modern political predicament and their own dirty hands in it is the lot of ‘progressive’ America. They simply don’t care at all about anybody’s ideas but their own. It’s the ultimate form of elitist snobbery – the very thing of which they accuse “the Establishment”. In reality, these kinds of accusations are merely the “projections” of the Left.

      That isn’t going to stand!!

    • Tickertapeguy

      A lot of people are blaming them including myself

      • WTF

        My point here is it matters little whether you agree with Trump or disagree with him, he didn’t create himself out of thin air, it was others that created him whether you view him as a savior or a monster.

        If he gets in and it all goes well, they’ll all come around brown nosing him but if it all goes wrong, they’ll continue Trump bashing but air brushing out their part in creating him.

        • Sue Smith

          Yes, Trump is the Frankenstein monster of the ‘progressives’. They just aren’t intelligent enough to be careful about what they wish for!! Simple as that.

        • Tickertapeguy

          I disagree on a few vital points
          -Trump created himself. His father loaned (or gave) him a million dollars which he made into 10 billion dollars. That includes 500 corporations which he is the CEO. Trump paid back the million dollars to his father
          -His brother was also loaned (or gave) a million dollars by the same father. he went nowhere with that money.
          Second issue
          Among Trump supporters are those who want secession. this movement predates Trump by a couple of years. Many in this movement prefer if Trump loses since he will soften the movement by rectifying a good deal of the problems. They fear that like Reagan, Trump will be a short term fix to a long term problem. Like Reagan the US continued and accelerated our demise. Reagan was unable to steer this nation from the entrenched establishment and their machinations.
          That means
          If Trump loses and someone else becomes President it will only feed the Secessionist movement like pouring gasoline on fire. That is what I meant.

  • Kevin Ytza

    If there was any chance of stopping Donald Trump becoming the Republican nominee, it was shut down last night in Chicago.

    I hope so. Good God, it’s the lunatics running the asylum.

  • Ozzy Guy

    Ha ha…these low IQ deadshits in Chicago don’t even realize how much their behaviour is contributing to ensure Trump’s victory.

  • trobrianders

    Half you idiots just repeat the inane babbling of lefty comedians off the telly from whom you derive your entire understanding of the world. Pathetic!

    • Maxwell Frere

      You tell ’em, Einstein.

  • grimm

    Judging by the aggressive character attacks on the Leave EU campaigners published in this magazine over the last two weeks The Spectator does not mind having a snarling smug left-liberal sounding off in its pages.

  • George

    The protesters waved Mexican flags? In Chicago? And they wonder why Trump and his millions of supporters want to bring about fundamental change?

    Mark Steyn relates a story about a town, Maywood, in California, which was originally largely white, Anglo and prosperous but is now welfare-ridden and over 96% Mexican, mostly made up of illegals. In many other areas the Mexican “illegals” are the majority and effectively constitute Mexico as part of the US welfare state.

    As Steyn points out, this is not diversity, but a total Mexican take-over. So great is the illegal Mexican influx, he says, that whole swaths of southern California and Arizona will eventually become Mexican territory.

    Have the American people no moral right to object to this Mexican invasion? Did those anti-Trump protesters have a vested interest in illegal Mexican immigration, or are they just naive and stupid?

    Similar points could, and should be made about Muslim immigration to the US.

    The 9/11 bombers were Muslim immigrants. The Boston marathon bombers were Muslim immigrants. The San Bernardino killers were Muslim immigrants or children of Muslim immigrants. After such acts of terror, and many more, why should the right of a Muslim to enter the US not be questioned? Indeed not only the US, but the West generally should be asking why the right of Muslims to come should take precedence over the security of westerners.

    The virtue-signalers of the Left like to portray Trump and his supporters as ignorant and uneducated. But in time, just as with Reagan and Soviet Communism, Trump and his supporters will be proved right about the Mexican and Muslim threats to the US.

    • grimm

      In the past you would need an army to invade a country and take posession of its wealth. With the Western ruling elite so focussed on “doing the right thing” invaders now just need to turn up in large numbers and demand their human rights.

    • Nick1963

      Just a couple of points of fact; both Arizona and California were part of Mexico… that may account for a sizeable portion of the Hispanic population of both states.

      Mark Steyn, though occasionally funny, is prone to over-exaggeration to make his often, apparently, paranoid point.

  • trobrianders

    Even brownshirts had better self-awareness than these savages.

    • WTF

      You’re correct, as despicable their policies were at least the brown shirts knew why they had those policies. The student protesters today whether in the UK or USA and no matter what the issue, just want to smash up the place without having a reason and completely dumb with it. I never understood why rioters in Brixton or LA (Watts) decades ago or more recently across the UK or in Ferguson MI, go out and smash up their own neighborhood. You’d think they’d strike a blow at the establishment if they could figure out what their grievance was but no, its smash up and loot from your own people who serve you. Go figure !

  • Andy C

    Progressive? These chumps look about as regressed as it is possible to be.

    • trobrianders

      They’ve learned a lot from their jihadist brethren.

    • WTF

      Its the progressive liberals who are pulling their strings like a puppet as they can’t even wipe their own a*** most of them.

  • Tickertapeguy

    This anti Trump rioters is mainly the result of the US media and their twisted reporting of Trump and big money from the neocons.
    We will win either way. If Trump wins the US maybe able to save herself from a whole host of problems
    If Trump loses and some other person becomes President it will catapult the secessionist movement into over drive.

    • The Masked Marvel

      Soros isn’t a neocon. BLM is not funded by neocons. Occupy Wall St. is not funded by neocons. Bernie Sanders supporters are not funded by neocons. You are entitled to your own opinion, twisted as it may be, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

      • Tickertapeguy

        and here comes the Jew defender
        -Soros is a jew and is funding this riot. he plans more riots for Trump
        -Bernie Sanders is Jew and supports communism. A good deal of those rioters were Sanders supporters
        Media is controlled by Jews who have gone out of their way to twist every aspect of Trump
        The Federal Reserve is controlled by Jewish owned Banks that Trump wants to audit. Will give you the list anytime. Those are the facts.

        • trobrianders

          Jews of all stripe seem to have an exaggerated interest in status quo. I wonder why?

          • Tickertapeguy

            I am not addressing all Jews “trobrianders” only the powerful and established Jews.
            Give you an example. A close friend of mine is a Jew. She was married to a German. He died a few years ago and before the Madoff scandal. both were very wealthy. She became more so after his death. Most of her money was tied up with Madoff (A Jew too)
            When the Scandal broke she was left almost penniless. She lost her husband and her fortune. She is a victim of the manipulative actions of another Jew named Madoff.

            • trobrianders

              By all stripe I meant industrialists, journalists, entertainers etc. I just meant Jews are pretty unified about the status quo.

              • Maxwell Frere

                I think that the pair of you are going to have to get together and thrash out exactly why you hate the Jews, which Jews you hate, which (if any) you don’t and what you have got against Status Quo. I am sure that you will have a whale of a time doing so but I will have to make my excuses. Have fun!

                • trobrianders

                  I don’t hate Jews, I love them. I was half brought up in a Jewish home. I have observed they are pretty unified around the status quo. Their interests are wrapped up in the status quo. Hardly surprising not many are backing Trump. You seem to see anti-Semitism in your soup, sir.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  But the American Jewish community fully backed Obama and his policies for 8 years
                  regardless
                  if they were destroying the US
                  they now support Hillary Clinton who is the heir to Obama.

                • trobrianders

                  Like I said, status quo

                • Tickertapeguy

                  understand. then when we point that out on the internet we are labeled “anti Semites” which is an effective tool to silence anyone.

                • trobrianders

                  Ignore Maxwell Frere. He just attempts to take a moral high ground whatever the issue. His farts must smell good up there.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  I do not know Maxwell. I will not ignore his remarks for if not challenged they stand alone against mine leaving other commenters to take his side.

                • trobrianders

                  Doubtless there will be many to take his side. Our loonyversities have churned out hundreds of thousands of the little pygmies.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  Yep. that is yet another issue, our higher learning institutes and how much nonsense they churn out
                  for example a good deal who support Bernie Sanders and his communist platform do not have a clue what communism has done and they are university students by and large.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  Once you explain why Judaism
                  does not consider Christ anything. not even a prophet. The Muslims consider him a prophet
                  why Judaism does not consider the New Testament of any value less alone Holy and not “God the son”
                  while
                  Christians consider the Jewish God Yahweh “God the Father”. and consider the old testament central to the Bible and Holy. lets start there.

                • trobrianders

                  Stay out of it you pathetic virtue signalling moron.

                • Maxwell Frere

                  That’s right, Mr. Padge.

              • Tickertapeguy

                Yes. That is because they belong to tribes. the only faith that is based on tribes.

                but

                Since then discussions of societies and the ancient root of them has expanded. Northern Europeans also belong to a tribal culture (unlike the southern Europeans). One sees a more amicable desire to part ways if a problem cannot be resolved by the descendants of Northern Europeans.

                Then there are the nomadic people like the Gypsies. they have maintained that nomadic culture for 2 thousand years.

                then there are the settled communities like Southern Europeans who arn’t so amicable about issues of forming new nations. Like the Roman Empire they consolidate. this is an extreme summary of societies and their roots. I could quote you a poem by Kipling of the Temperament of the Northern European if you want.

                • trobrianders

                  Sure

                • Tickertapeguy

                  THE WRATH OF THE AWAKENED SAXON

                  by Rudyard Kipling

                  It was not part of their blood,
                  It came to them very late,
                  With long arrears to make good,
                  When the Saxon began to hate.

                  They were not easily moved,
                  They were icy — willing to wait
                  Till every count should be proved,
                  Ere the Saxon began to hate.

                  Their voices were even and low.
                  Their eyes were level and straight.
                  There was neither sign nor show
                  When the Saxon began to hate.

                  It was not preached to the crowd.
                  It was not taught by the state.
                  No man spoke it aloud
                  When the Saxon began to hate.

                  It was not suddenly bred.
                  It will not swiftly abate.
                  Through the chilled years ahead,
                  When Time shall count from the date
                  That the Saxon began to hate.

                • trobrianders

                  I think Saxons might have civilised hate which is a very good thing.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  Outside of this poem what I glean is that “Hate” (if that is even the right word) was

                  systematized
                  organized
                  No outward open emotional outbursts.

                  carefully calculated as in Germany of the 40’s into a modern genocidal machine. That regime was defeated but the blue print they left behind is what future nightmare will base it upon.

                  This is just my observation.

                • trobrianders

                  Like I said, civilised.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  Organized is not necessarily “civilized”

                • trobrianders

                  You’ve not ever faced a machete-wielding zealot.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  I have faced things similar but I get your point. mine was the system Germany created in the 1940’s which luckily I never faced.

        • The Masked Marvel

          Who said anything about Jews? Oh, yes, ‘neocon’ is shorthand. Trump wants to audit the banks that bailed him out of bankruptcy? LOL!

          • Tickertapeguy

            Yes “necon” is a pseudonym for Jews. For a long time in the US media we could not use the word “jew” without having our comment removed.
            The Federal Reserve is made up of these banks

            Below is the list of the owners of the 12 Central Banks:

            – Rothschild Bank of London
            – Rothschild Bank of Berlin
            – Lazard Brothers of Paris
            – Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
            – Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
            – Warburg Bank of Hamburg
            – Lehman Brothers of New York (who went bankrupt in 2008 & were bailed out by Obama)
            – Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
            – Goldman Sachs of New York-(Wife of Ted Cruz is 2nd in command. She quit but the connection between Ted and Sachs remains)
            – Chase Manhattan Bank of New York
            In all, there are about 300 VERY POWERFUL, partly foreign individuals that owns the Federal Reserve.

            • The Masked Marvel

              Trump’s daughter married an orthodox Jew and converted to Judaism for it. Better start hiding your money and children before the Jooooos come to get them.

              • Tickertapeguy

                You are hyper sensitive of anyone criticizing the established Jews arn’t you? But have no problem criticizing
                Christians
                Muslims
                liberals or conservatives
                Communists or Capitalists
                or anyone who is NOT a Jew. Hypocrite
                I know all about his family connections to Jewish people for Trump openly states that in his rallies. If you were not such a Liberal hypocrite you would know the difference of what I stated including personal anecdotes.

                • The Masked Marvel

                  I didn’t bring up Jews. You did. You’re the one with an extreme….er….sensitivity. Please cite two of my comments where I am critical of Christians. Back up your slander.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  I believe you are the one who first replied to my comment. No one else did. Your first comment to me was
                  “Soros isn’t a neocon. BLM is not funded by neocons. Occupy Wall St. is not funded by neocons. Bernie Sanders supporters are not funded by neocons. You are entitled to your own opinion, twisted as it may be, but you are not entitled to your own facts.”
                  Here in the US “neocons” is another word for “Jews”.From there the entire subject revolved around Jews.
                  As for my comment of Jews hating Christianity they do. they do not consider Chris anything. If they do they consider Christ claiming to be the Son of God (and for Christian a God) a blasphemy. That is the best.
                  The Jews and Judaism completely repudiates everything from the Garden of Getsemone to Mount Calvary as Fiction at best
                  the Jews and Judaism considers the Resurrection of Christ a fairy tale, the last supper is just a supper and nothing more. The birth of Christ in Bethlehem is just a birth of another Jew
                  If Christians felt that way of the old Testament the Jews would not have any problem in considering that an insult. God! are you that dense?

                • The Masked Marvel

                  I replied, yes, but did not mention Jews. I mean, I mentioned two people who are Jews – Soros and Sanders – but didn’t frame it as “Jews are the problem”.
                  I notice – as do others who read this – that you are unable to address the issue of your support for Trump and bizarre assertion that he will take down the (Jewish) banks despite having a Jewish son-in-law and convert daughter. Why would Trump want to take down the Jewish establishment if his own family is part of it?

                • Tickertapeguy

                  Are you still at this? you have a big problem buddy and you need to get over your neurotic notions. read my comments. I specifically mentioned “established” Jews to those who control the Federal Reserve. You took that and forced me to address a wider issue with Jews on several levels.
                  I wish I read such dogmatic defense of
                  the USA
                  Christianity
                  Democracy
                  Capitalism
                  The White Man
                  The Western Culture and so much
                  other than the Jews. get a life.

                • The Masked Marvel

                  Who brought up Jews? You’re just upset that your odd theory has been debunked and are throwing your toys out of the pram.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  Then get rid of filthy Jews
                  These hooked nose Semites have a darn home called Israel
                  Move on. org is financed by filthy Jew named Soros which used black thugs to do extreme violence in the Chicago and Kansas rallies.
                  Then I have you to come to this forum to police me? f you

                • The Masked Marvel

                  What a shock.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  that you are not. (shocked)
                  but I gave you what you wanted. you want to paint my comments as anti Semitic and you got that to some degree. I have to deal with what the ‘established” Jews have done to my life. my personal life, and I do not have the time or want to waste any pleasing people like you on public forums. your “politically correct’ jargon is worthless. Often it is people like you who demand politically correct language in public but indulge in raw bigotry in private.

                • The Masked Marvel

                  I think you’ve done a job painting your comments as anti-Semitic on your own. I haven’t engaged in politically correct anything.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  And who cares? you? big deal. You can read my comments in any way it suits you. You can also make comments that I may see as
                  anti Christian
                  anti American
                  Anti Democratic
                  Anti anything and I do not give a flying hoot. That is called freedom of speech. Something you believe only some people have that right.

                • The Masked Marvel

                  No, I am not taking away your right to free speech. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism or ridicule. You can’t defend any of your comments and have been busted as a vile bigot, and are whining and lashing out in response. Deal with it.

                • Tickertapeguy

                  I do not need to defend my comments to you when you falsely accuse me. I consider your comments to me rather vile but then you are rather vile.

                • The Masked Marvel

                  There is no false accusation. You have made your own statements for all to read. It’s in your comment history for all to see. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism. You have made your own choices here.

        • Ingmar Blessing

          That is a slippery slope Tickertapeguy. It went bad – really nasty bad – before.

          A network of individuals with lots of money and power and one or the other nasty plan does not qualify to dismiss Jews or Judaism in general.

  • whyayeman

    Ah, ‘progressives’

    If they can’t win by fair means, they resort to foul means.

    It kinda reminds me of petulant little brats.

    • trobrianders

      Or brownshirts

  • Jonathan Burns

    Honestly can’t stand Trump, but can’t stand this sort of thing either.

    • Maxwell Frere

      Hear, hear! These thugs almost certainly would call Trump a “fascist” and themselves “liberals”. THEY are, of course, the fascists while Trump is just a demagogic opportunist.

      • trobrianders

        The media uses words like ‘demagogic’ and Guardian readers suck them up. The easiest way to sound like they know what they’re talking about. Keep smelling your own farts while the rest of us try and save our civilisation.

        • Maxwell Frere

          That’s right, sonny. I am convinced that the future of our civilisation is safe in the hands of you and your chums.

          • trobrianders

            Who do you entrust it to?

            • Maxwell Frere

              Those who do not follow demagogues of any type.

              • trobrianders

                Oh you mean the Merkels desperate to overrun us with people who are brainwashed to hate us?

  • Business Cat

    SJW’s sure don’t like people they disagree with gathering publicly.

    Slippery slope that kind of bankrupt ideology.

  • http://www.ihaveareallybig.org Robert Bruce

    Nicely stated in an honest article. What I saw last night in Chicago literally reminder me of how the Bolsheviks and the Nazis tried to silence any opposition voice–and were successful. The winner? Donald Trump– that mob actually has some people feeling sorry for him. I didn’t think that was possible, but then again anything seems possible in this strangest of American political seasons.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      Well, yes, Mr. Trump did indeed make his choices.

      He cancelled his event, when there was no advisement he had to to play the victim, lest he go near those with other views.

  • WTF

    A bit of history here in the context of last night in Chicago and previous politically motivated events.

    The Watts riots of 1965 in Los Angeles – The root causes of the riots were high unemployment, poor schools, and other inferior living conditions for African Americans in Watts. Recommendations for addressing these problems included “emergency literacy and preschool programs, improved police-community ties, increased low-income housing, more job-training projects, upgraded health-care services, more efficient public transportation, and many more.” Most of these recommendations were not acted upon.
    The Mayor of Los Angeles – Sam Yorty, a Democrat !

    In 1963 JFK a Democrat president was the instigator of what turned out to be an unpopular war, namely Vietnam by sanctioning a coup to overthrow the Diem regime. Subsequently, Lydon B Johnson another Democrat president, instituted the draft, sent troops and planes to bomb northern Vietnam. This set the stage for Nixon to be saddled with mass protests at Kent State University where student rioting was countered by a National Guard and sadly some students were killed or injured. One can honestly state that the root cause of these deaths came from the Democrats in JFK and Johnson.

    In 1972, George Wallace a Democratic racist segregationist had an attempted assassination attempt against him that left him in a wheel chair and you guessed it, he was a Democrat running for President !

    Last year (2014) in Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s annual breakfast honoring Martin Luther King Jr. was interrupted when a group of protesters came in complaining about the Mayors cover up of the shooting of a black teenager, Laquan McDonald. Once more the common link was the Democrat Mayor who sat on a video for a year before being forced to release the footage.

    Now of course we come to last night and instead of a Democrat racist hopeful, an ineffective Democrat mayor, an Democratic instigator of the Vietnam war or a Democratic Mayoral cover up, we see paid for agitators stirring up trouble at a Republican rally for a presidential hopeful who is innocent of all of these actions.

    You may not like Trump, you may not agree with him, but he has a right to be heard when put in context of these historical events !

  • Minstrel Boy

    Left wing thuggery good! Right wing thuggery bad! This is the continual message of The Guardian, the BBC, and upstarts such as The Huffington Post.
    Remarkably like the sheep in Animal Farm with their “Four Legs Good. Two Legs Bad/ subsequently amended to Better!” What a chorus of hypocritical cretins!

  • Bendys

    Americans always display so much enthusiasm for their elections and afterwards everything deflates like a balloon… Change ?…

  • The Dybbuk

    If the writer sees demonstrators against Trump scary he clearly has not even given a thought to what an America with Trump as president will look like. Trump, for all is faux outrage is more the problem than a few leftist demonstrators who will grow out of it whereas a man aspiring to be president should know better than to pander to instincts best buried, not encouraged.

    • The Masked Marvel

      Trump would govern as the Big-Government, crony corporatist Democrat he’s been his entire life. He is less corrupt than the Clintons, though.

      • Maxwell Frere

        An accurate and succinct appraisal.

  • Alan Towson

    The anti donald mob is the same mob showing up as moveon or blacklivematters or whatever whackamole hole it erupts from…it all comes from the Democrats, all paid for.

  • davidofkent

    It seems to be the same here in the UK. The Left try to prevent any opposing view from being heard. They clearly believe neither in free speech nor democracy.

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