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If the left doesn’t wake up soon, it could be responsible for Brexit

3 March 2016

11:44 AM

3 March 2016

11:44 AM

It’s only been a week and a half since the starting gun was fired, yet for people outside of the Westminster bubble, the debate over the EU referendum is no doubt already beginning to tire.

On the one hand we have the ‘outers’ banging on almost exclusively about sovereignty and immigration. And on the other side we hear the same economic mantra repeated over and over again. I’m a convinced ‘remainer’ and of course I know that these arguments matter enormously – but I fear that this debate over the future direction of our country could be lost to the ‘outers’ unless my side make a more visceral argument for Britain remaining a member of the EU.

For a start that means remembering why the EU came about in the first place.

Amidst the metaphorical bombardment being launched by both sides of the EU debate, it’s easy to forget the literal bombs and bullets – and cross continental carnage – which led to the creation of the EU.  We have grown up and grown old within a Europe that has enjoyed the longest period of peace since the time of the Roman Empire.  We forget that at our peril.

But Britain shouldn’t just remain in the EU because of it’s role in peace-building – nor simply because the economic arguments are so overwhelmingly in favour of staying. This debate must be more than a transactional calculation.

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The European story should also be celebrated because of its role in allowing Britain to be Britain – while working with our neighbours on the shared challenges we face. The way in which countries with different histories and cultures have come together – and have chosen to pool resources for their common good – is historically unique. Most people in the UK may not feel as ‘European’ as those on the continent, but our positive, outward looking place in the world – and our generally tolerant, multicultural society – is enhanced, not hindered, by the EU.

To protect all that the EU has given us – and to prevent us slipping backwards – the ‘In’ side has to win this referendum. But a narrow victory isn’t enough. The pro-European campaign in 1975 won 66 per cent of the vote. We might not repeat this in 2016. But we must aim for more than just making it over the finishing line with 51 per cent of the vote. The clearer the victory, the easier it will be to move on from this sterile debate on membership, to the real issue of how we can build the kind of Europe that we want.

And this brings me to another concern I have about the direction of the EU debate: the relative silence from the Labour leadership.  Perhaps it’s because, like a minority of others on the left, they believe that the EU is a ‘capitalist club’ which has undermined progressive politics in Britain.  Yet there is no evidence that the British people are currently held back from fulfilling a more progressive political and social agenda by the European Union. Indeed it seems to me that the opposite is true.  It is the EU which is introducing caps on bankers’ bonuses, stronger action on tax evasion and avoidance, and more lobbying transparency.  Even on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Treaty, it is David Cameron who is the loudest cheerleader, and our European neighbours (3 million of whom have signed a petition opposing TTIP) who offer us the best chance of defeating it.

The views of the Labour leadership matter – and complacency could increase the chances of Britain sleepwalking out of the EU. I’ve no doubt that sitting back and watching civil war in the Tory party is tempting – but to do so in the hope of boosting progressive politics would simply be cutting off our nose to spite our face.

We have many weeks to go in this campaign. I hope that as we head towards June the ‘In’ side – and in particular those of us on the left – take this chance to tell a positive story about the EU; both what it has done, and what – if we work together across Europe – it could do, and it’s potential for bringing about a more socially justice and environmentally sustainable future.

Caroline Lucas is the Green party MP for Brighton Pavilion. She will be giving a speech entitled ‘The EU: friend or foe for progressive politics’ tonight at the London School of Economics. Details are available here.


 

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Show comments
  • Steve

    They often call the left ‘liberals’, which as a genuine liberally minded guy I find disagreeable.

    There’s nothing liberal or democratic about the EU.
    If the left was truly either of those two things it’d be for Brexit, but as communist states through history prove, it’s just the other side of the coin that fascism resides on. Control.

    It’s a stretch to claim the left will be responsible for Brexit if it doesn’t act. The left as a legitimate political force is irrelevant. A failed experiment of the last century. It has no say in the matter. Whatever the UK decides it won’t be up to the left, despite it’s proclivities for patriarchal oversight.

  • http://www.CaerphillyPreserves.co.uk/ No Good Boyo

    Democracy keeps the peace in Europe. It’s almost unheard of for democracies to go to war. The only example I can think of in the entire 20th century was the Cod War, in the 1970’s. The only one before that was the Boer War in 1899.

    Again and again, the EU has acted to undermine democratic power in Europe. Week by week, it seizes ever more authority from national governments’ democratic control, declaring that it can never be returned. It’s stated ambition is to render elected governments impotent in the face of the European Commission’s authority. Democracy, and hence, Europe’s future peace, is not safe in the EU’s hands.

  • andyrwebman

    Nothing sounds more retarded than so called “Green” parties championing high levels of immigration.

    How are we to achieve cuts overall to our consumption and environmental impact, Caroline? You’re helping to make a tough target much tougher.

    You should have taken Maths at school instead of political studies.

    • trobrianders

      She has daddy issues probably. No amount of politics will fix that.

  • Tom Dixon

    The real question I genuinely can’t find an answer to is why is the ‘new left’ so pro Europe? It seems that the traditional left has been marginalised by a new middle class left who only see the EU in terms of the self affirming arguments made in the article above.
    The EU has been bad for the working poor of the UK, we take their taxes and pay them to an organisation which gives them very little return on this investment. We are constantly told that business is in favour of remain, and it is, BIG business that is, they love the lobbying power they have in Brussels, and the cheap labour that Schengen provides, plus the protectionism that reams of EU regulations give on everything from car emmissions to the power of a vacuum cleaner. Of course its all dressed up as ‘environmental’ but in reality its the result of extensive lobbying by huge EU corporations to hamper imports from the emerging economies.
    Then there’s the dreaded immigration issue, we know that the vast majority of immigrants to the UK come here to work, but in such large numbers they have had a huge effect on wages. We are told that this isn’t true, but any economist who tells you that annually adding 300,000 or so new workers into an labour market the size of the UK’s hasn’t had an effect on wages is either a liar or an idiot. Perhaps salaries in some better paid professions haven’t been affected, but if you look at the lowest paid it has had a huge effect. The minimum wage hides this effect to some extent, but many more people are on the minimum wage than would have been the case had we not seen such a large increase in the workforce. Even some professions which used to pay quite well by working class standards are now paying minimum wage, HGV drivers for example, my grandfather drove trucks, in his day it was a good job, these days its poorly paid, tanker drivers and some other specialists still do ok but the run of the mill delivery driver is at or just above the minimum wage. These people used to be the core voters of the left, who do they turn to now? Farage?
    I think that by ignoring the working poor and supporting the essentially Thatcherite policy of backing big business at all costs and allowing free market economics to run free in the labour market the left are sleepwalking into an even bigger problem…. Remain. I doubt there are enough middle class lefties outside the South East to win another election for Labour and if they continue to ignore the interests of their core vote in the rest of the country they may not see power for a very long time.

  • paulus

    You are asking us to embark upon a project that has no predetermined point except a euphemism. That was conceived by people who had no understanding of the situations that we currently face or likely to face. Their entire World view was shaped by outdated, discredited and now defunct understandings of politics, processed and structures. Predictably the EU has reverted to the strong dictate to the weak. All predicable.

    The arithmetic, logic and limits of dynamics of processes limited by human understanding will lead to a catastrophic event. History has taught us this and wishing away reality will not change it. We will vote to save everyone.

  • If I may just butt in here..

    EU preserves European peace.
    NATO is a figment of your imagination.

    Meanwhile, given anything they say will increase the Brexit vote, the Labour Leadership is doing the only sensible thing from their point of view and keeping its gob shut. The Republican establishment and media in the US don’t seem to have learned that lesson yet, and neither do you Ms Lucas. More ego than common sense, I suspect, and you haven’t got much of an ego.

  • alexei

    When did Ms Lucas morph into a Remainer? I distinctly remember her sharing a platform for a number of years with the Leavers on the Left, such as Tony Benn, Frank Field, Kate Hoey etc, speaking passionately about the evils of the EU. Did she have a Damascene conversion, did someone get to her, or what? This is the sort of volte-face, when politicians switch sides seemingly overnight that turns people off politics and confirms their distrust of politicians generally.

  • Bodkinn

    I don’t believe that whatever scare stories the inners make up and get their minions to support will have any effect. The British will take one look at the chaos which is now the EU as it falls asunder and decide they want no part of it. The present actuality of the situation in the Europe is far more frightening than any fiction writer paid by the inners could make up and have it believed.

  • Stephen Wolstenholme

    Video highlights of cross-party, anti-EU Grassroots Out rally, London. Please share.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TE5dAEgwlQ

  • Peter Andrews

    Not so many years ago it was Green Party policy to leave the EU. The Greens also – and uniquely in politics – had a policy on population. They argued that the UK was way overpopulated and that it would be desirable for it to decline to around 30 millions.
    Then they got a few MEPs elected and discovered the EU gravy train, and they became bleeding heart liberals dedicated to letting any number of migrants into the country.
    These days the Greens no longer believe that small is beautiful: they’re fully paid up supporters of the undemocratic EU bureaucracy. And they no longer believe that basic ecological principles such as optimum population apply.

    • ArchiePonsonby

      Dead right and spot on!

  • Bill Kendall

    What a load of tripe! Who wrote that for you Caroline?

  • rbw152

    Caroline, how do you know that the ‘economic arguments are so overwhelmingly in favour of staying’?

    Economics are not exactly the Green’s strong point after all. You once said that renewable energy is ‘free’, despite the fact it’s propped up with billions of pounds of tax payer’s money, so I’m not sure your opinion is much to worry about in this argument.

    Look, we’re the world’s fifth largest economy. The EU needs us perhaps more than we need them. The idea that the EU would stop trading with us just because we leave is nonsense.

    I don’t know, lefties just trot out these opinions as if they are fact and as if other people don’t know better than them – and yet you haven’t got a clue really.

    Let’s face it, you say these things because of your ideology not because you’ve taken a long, hard, unbiased look at the facts.

    Quite frankly, I wish you’d be a bit more honest. The Green Party has recently stated its support for Corbyn, proving the ‘watermelon’ epithet we all knew to be true, so why don’t you admit that your ideology colours your opinions on this subject?

    We all know you’re never going to agree with the ‘out’ campaign for this reason so either stop wasting your breath or please just say ‘speaking as a green socialist’ before stating your opinion. Instead of trying to mislead everyone into thinking that you’re taking a purely practical, sensible approach, because we all know that’s rubbish.

  • kitten

    Only the neoliberals want us to stay in.

    Caroline Lucas declaring her stance has nailed her politics to the pole; she’s an unabashed neoliberal and arguably not very left wing at all.

    The EU supports banks; the Greek bailout money mostly went on banks.

    Goldman Sachs is financing the in campaign.

    The EU supports privatisation of our state owned assets; the Royal Mail being a good example.

    TTIP could put our NHS at risk of privatisation and the EU has been warned to expect job losses as jobs are transferred to the States.

    Unfettered immigration has lowered the wages of the poorest in society.

    This is proof enough that the left have just as much reason to favour Brexit as the right.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      So you have no idea about neoliberalism.
      As you decry the left, from your far right.

      As you make wild claims about Jewish bankers… (of course)

      As you blame the EU for your undemocratic goals, and blame the EU for Tory privatization policy. As you admit your right’s TTIP (which the Tories would wave through after an English EU exit) will risk the NHS, and don’t want the European left’s opposition…as you lie about immigration and wages, and try and ignore the trade you’re so desperate to lower, so wages can fall for you.

      Your demands about the left, as you demand they hate the poor like your far right…

    • kitten

      The EU is imperialist.

      The EU is working towards a federal superstate.

      Some posters that purport to wanting us to stay in the EU engage in ad hominem attacks and lies. I guess they can’t argue with facts.

      .
      .
      .
      .

      .

  • Andrew Cole

    Caroline Lucas has got lost in the Westminster bubble as well has she. How many votes does this westminster bubble represent in the wide scheme of things.

    This referendum will not be won or lost by any party not talking enough. It will be won by normal people talking sense. Caroline Lucas needs to have a break from the elite in the Westminster bubble and actually talk to people outside of her cosmopolitan seat of Brighton and realise WHY people are angry and why people do not believe a word most politicians say.

    If the left doesn’t wake up???? Most of the left are the ones voting out!!!

    • Leon Wolfeson

      So you have no idea who’s voting for what then.

      As you note your anger at democracy…

      • Andrew Cole

        It is cross party. Her talking about the left waking up is purely to the PLP and has no real effect on what left leaning voters will vote in the referendum.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Who are today overwhelmingly for remain. This isn’t the 70’s.

          (Note that New Labourites? Centralist, at best)

          • Andrew Cole

            Tell that to the bubble. They refer to the northern working class as Left. They are overwhelmingly for leave.

            • Leon Wolfeson

              “the bubble”.

              Sure, Mr. The Bubble, your fantasies are odd.

              • Andrew Cole

                How many posts will it be until you call me racist or start warbling on about zionists or jews?

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Your self-promotion of your own views will do.
                  Thanks for expressing them.

                • Andrew Cole

                  I won’t be spending my time tonight playing your silly game. You can go divert someone else’s attention. You can stalk my posts as normal though for everybody to see how little of a life you have in your Uni bedsit.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  The game is yours, you made a statement and it was quite clear.

                  As you make wild hate accusations against me, clearly from your post because of my religion.
                  You are one person, not everyone, as you demand a right to censor posts with arrant whining about “stalking”.

                  I stand for Britain against extremists like you.

                • Andrew Cole

                  bye bye.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  And now you make threats.

                  “I won’t be spending my time tonight playing your silly game.”

                  Ah, so as you replied again you’re also a liar. Nice to know.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Never mind the actual polling on this…

          • Andrew Cole

            The actual polling? You mean the mass ranks of faithful Labour voters in the North that voted for UKIP instead in 2015?

            • Leon Wolfeson

              No, I don’t mean your fantasies about things which never happened, but thanks for the propaganda there.

              People don’t magically flip from left to right en-mass.

              Your far right keep claiming it, and keep failing when you believe your own words…for example, at Cable Street!

              • Andrew Cole

                Your idea of left and right is very outdated. The left used to be a working class thing. Tell me why they are voting for UKIP? Tell me why they are the core of the ‘leave’ voters? Your own lot admit it and are trying to work out how to address it. Obviously they haven’t thought about campaigning for leave which would instantly address it and almost wipe UKIP out of those labour areas.

                http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/23/labour-win-working-class-voters-ukip

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Ah yes, that excuse for the far right.

                  The left are not voting UKIP, get over it, as you deny the right wing core of the isolationist agenda.

                  “Your own lot” – what, Mutualists? 98%+ Remain. Jewish People? 90%+ Remain. Who, then? 83% of Labour supporters were remain in November 2015 polling….

                  You seem to think that campaigning for isolationism, helping the right and lower wages, abandoning the party and essentially begging the left to vote for the Tories…

                  As you link a agitprop piece, from politican who was entirely debunked by Labour’s rise in membership under Corbyn. The left are returning to Labour, from “not voting”. (And no, that’s not shown fully in the polls…)

                  UKIP have done well among the right-wing leaning segments of the working class, yes, which is a *Tory* problem. Not a Labour one…except among the rightist New Labourites who refuse to admit any of the major reasons Labour lost the last election!

                • Andrew Cole

                  You continue to talk of separate people while I continue to see people in this country as simply people.

                  83% of Labour voter at the last election. You are very likely right. What about those that used to vote Labour?

                  Left right politics has crossed over so much in the past decade yet you still continue the BBC brainwashing drivel about left his and right that.

                  The facts are that the largest proportion of the leave vote are people who are ‘considered’ to be the traditional Labour voter demographic.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  You refuse to admit there’s opposition to your views, hmm!

                  As you peddle a myth of crossover…no, Labour moved away from the left, as you frantically excuse the right, and make up “facts” based on myth in an attempt to confuse voters. Anything but admit it’s your isolationist right, as ever, driving the isolationist agenda.

                • Andrew Cole

                  Your premise is that the people who voted UKIP are those that were impressed by New Labour. Complete opposite of the truth. If anything those New Labour addicts are still Labour voters and do still want to stay in the EU.

                  Most of the working class low pay, low skilled workers in England would have been considered to be Labour’s old left demographic yet they are the ones that feel betrayed by Labour and who will vote to leave.

                  Jobs and Security is what matters to them and they have lost their jobs and have no security which they lay firmly on the door of the governments continual persistence in following the EU rules and letting EU migrants come in vast numbers to work in the low paid jobs.

                  You can warble on about left this and right that but on this issue it isn’t about right wing fascists that hate johnny foreigner. They are not moaning about the people themselves. They are moaning about the policy that allowed them to come.

                  Your lot always try to depict this argument as Brits hating foreigners and to make it out as a personal attack on people when the truth it is the policy that these people are attacking, not the people.

                  You cannot debate the argument so instead resort to calling them racists and bigots instead of asking them what they are moaning about.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  No, that’s your premise in your mind.

                  As you ignore what the betrayal is – moving right, nothing to do with the EU and your isolationist xenophobia. As you go after their jobs and securities, in your attempts to undermine them – as you make excuses for the Fash, and try and deny YOUR views, the ones you try and paint as common.

                  When even the less-extreme BNP got 1667 votes at the GE. As you try and stop debate, when YOU, and YOU only (not your collectivist nonsense) show your true colours, then whine when they’re talked about.

                  Moreover, no, your far right are very much attacking people. Hate crime is up.

                • Andrew Cole

                  No I ma saying that this EU issue is nothing to do with left or right. It is not party political in the least. It isn’t Tory vs Labour vs UKIP. People who vote Labour will vote out just as people who vote Tory will vote in. You never know some kippers might vote to stay.

                  You are trying to fit this single issue in with everything else and then try and take people’s opinions on this issue to fit them in with a left or right lean.

                  It is simple fact that a huge amount of Labour’s traditional vote deserted them at the last election and whilst some old and some new may have joined since Corbyn became Leader that does not affect the issue of the referendum.

                  Whether you think Corbyn has won back those Northern Industrial areas that does not mean they are not going to vote to leave.

                  The Referendum whether you like it or not is nothing to do with if you vote Tory, Labour or Liberal. People from all parties will vote both ways. Then they will return to whichever party they want to vote for at the next election.

                  I think voting is becoming more fluid in the younger generations anyway. There is much less tribalism in the youth vote.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  There are, today, strong correlations between the left and right and how they will vote in this referendum – trends, not absolutes and there are of course vocal exceptions. Not in the past, no, but today.

                  You are trying to make wild accusations. As you then ignore the fact that much of Labour’s base had moved to “not voting”, but that it’s returning thanks to Corbyn. The people involved are not isolationists, and never have been, as you push propaganda.

                  There’s less right wing voters among the younger generation. That’s what’s happening.

                • Andrew Cole

                  I acknowledged that many of Labour’s traditional working class may well be returning to Corbyn. However those same working class voters that are returning to Labour are still the ones most likely to vote for leave.

                  That is why I am saying that this referendum is not a left / right thing at all.

                  I agree there are left right wing (if you mean Tory) voters among the young (if you mean under 30) however there are a huge amount of 30 to 50 Tory voters and there are a huge amount of working class under 30s that will vote UKIP.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  “However those same working class voters that are returning to Labour are still the ones most likely to vote for leave”

                  This is nonsense, pure unfounded propaganda. As you frantically make excuses for the clear left/right lines today in voting, for the vast majority.

                  There are some under 30 right wingers who vote UKIP rather than Tory, yes, and? Meanwhile, younger people are trending away from the Tories. Still.

  • BorderReiver100

    “The European story should also be celebrated because of its role in allowing Britain to be Britain”

    My Goodness, words fail me! Is this the way they think?

  • WFC

    For those who struggled to keep their eyes open reading this vacuous fact-free tosh, here is an excellent analysis of why left wingers should want out: http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/for-europe-against-the-eu/18102#.VtixrPDfWK1

    • Leon Wolfeson

      No, not really, your post is very short, as you repost something which is progressive
      And that was the Coalition.

      So, yes, fact-free tosh from you. Nothing to do with the left, clearly.

      And then it complains that the BBC won’t change it’s editorial guidelines for some random people. Why, Russia might not get all the love it deserves, for instance, the only really significant non-EU European nation, after all eh?

      It’s a right winger, showing his right wing credentials and why the left have a problem of infiltrators. Ignoring everything said about the EU, that article is a paen against democracy, the whining of an elitist who does not trust the British people.

  • The History Man

    Excellent article. I too am fed up that the debate is largely between one set of rabid extreme anti Europeans and the other lot of sceptics who are running the Stay campaign. I remember the 1975 campaign which was full of optimism, idealism and aspirations for building a new Europe.
    Let’s get back to that and start debunking all these poisonous myths about the EU which have taken hold due to the insidious campaign from the Outers over the years.
    According to Nigel Farage, we are out to be invaded by ‘500 million potential immigrants’ when 65 million of them are British living in Britain. That is the quality of the debate!

    • Holly

      The very FACT that we are NOT anti Europeans, we are anti EU, is probably why you are so ‘fed up’.
      Swat up on the REAL reasons why we feel so strongly about this, and then have a lie down for a bit.

    • Discuscutter

      The referendum would not even have a chance if the EU wasn’t so crisis ridden and especially ineffective in the face of crisis.

      The Euro is the most important one, if it was not hindering jobs and growth and making countries sink in to deflation and decline then there would be no problem.

      It is hard to be optimistic when one sees how it all went.

  • Liberty

    The reason that the Inners do not often make the points you make is because the argument is flawed and they would be exposed 1) The EU did not preserve the peace, Nato did, and that was to fend off the USSR, not to enforce peace between Western Europeans for whom war became unthinkable a year or two after WW2 and increasingly so ever since. And 2) because we do not need a gigantic, corrupt, expensive bureaucratic, additional layer of government to enable nations to work together in peace and harmony. Europe would have had good commercial, cultural and political relations with all our neighbours without the EU. The EU is entirely superfluous.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      No, war is entirely, entirely thinkable in the sort of scenarios being dreamed up about the EU dissolving. In fact, in those it’s virtually inevitable.

      The EU is actually quite efficient (in good part because it does not do the more inefficient things national governments need to do), and your claims reject history. Moreover, do explain why even America saw the need for a supranational pact? (And yes, NAFTA has supranational elements)

  • Conway

    I’m a convinced ‘remainer’ and of course I know that these arguments matter enormously – but I fear that this debate over the future direction of our country could be lost to the ‘outers’ unless my side make a more visceral argument for Britain remaining a member of the EU.” Visceral, so a gut feeling, then?

    For a start that means remembering why the EU came about in the first place.” In wartime Germany, I believe. It was always intended to be an Empire, it’s just that having failed with tanks and bombers they’ve had rather more success with economic and political strategies.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      So, you believe that Black is White, and…

  • AnotherOldBoy

    Caroline Lucas is a nutter. What is she doing writing for the Spectator?

    • trobrianders

      More worrying is the nutters that had to coalesce in number to elect her. Concentrations of stupid can be highly toxic.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        The toxicity of democracy. How sad.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      Ah yes, the decrial of other views as “a nutter”.

      • Steven

        Wolfeson, she is a hater of the Jewish state, and displays the most rank hypocrisy in calling for a boycott of it – aloneof all nations in the world. You used to keep banging on about imaginary anti-semites, but confronted with this bigotry, you will no doubt rush to defend Lucas – making you something of a hypocrite yourself.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          I don’t support the Greens and I’m not a hypocrite like you – I don’t claim my views are imaginary, for starters. Your bigotry rolls on.

          • Steven

            You do know you’re a loony, don’t you?

            • Leon Wolfeson

              “UR LOONY”

              No, I know you consider those holding other views are insane – which is a view of yours which is designed of course to suppress debate and shows your strongly right wing, totalitarian and social darwinist views.

              Thanks, Mr. Hypocrite Steven.
              You were plain wrong on my supporting Lucas, but instead of admitting so you’ve simply moved the whining up a few notches.

              • Steven

                …but you really are a loon.
                And you need to work at finding an original insult – I identified you as a hypocrite, so then you simply mirror that back. Not very creative, is it?

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  “UR LOON”

                  As you demand I work for you for free, as you make your wild accusations, and want me to be “creative” rather than truthful.

                • Steven

                  You are the worst of all possibilities – neither truthful nor original.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Ah yes, I must fit into your PC collectivist bigotry – “not just like you”.

                • Steven

                  Eh?
                  Try posting something coherent.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Take more ESOL lessons.

                • Steven

                  …or perhaps you could articulate an argument.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  Oh right, a non-English speaker like you could whine on about things he can’t read or I could get to the point.

                • Steven

                  No, I speak English perfectly well, thank you. Unfortunately, you can’t write it.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  So you admit you can read my posts, but don’t, but then you reverse yourself and claim that English is not English because of your lack of knowledge of English.

                  Right. Done whining yet?

                • Steven

                  More incoherent nonsense – just read that back to yourself. If it makes sense to you, then your brain must be wired in a very strange way.

                • Leon Wolfeson

                  “More incoherent nonsense – just read that back to yourself.”

                  Right, I agree your post is utterly in coherent in context. Your whining goes on, as you continue not to read my post.

  • Robert_Eve

    What a complete idiot you are Ms Lucas.

  • GnosticBrian

    “We have grown up and grown old within a Europe that has enjoyed the
    longest period of peace since the time of the Roman Empire. We forget
    that at our peril”.

    It appears that Caroline’s grasp of European history matches Natalie Bennett’s understanding of economics – how peaceful was:

    The Greek civil war between 1946 and 1949.

    The Soviet suppression of the 1953 uprising in East Germany.

    The Soviet suppression of the 1956 Poznan uprising.

    The Soviet suppression of the 1956 Hungarian revolution.

    The three “cod wars”; 1958, 1972 / 73, 1975 / 76.

    The Soviet suppression of the Prague spring in 1968.

    The 1968 – 1998 “troubles”.

    The 1988 – 1994 Nagorno-Karabakh War.

    The 1989 Romanian revolution.

    The 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus.

    The Albanian anarchy of 1997.

    The 1998 second Georgian war.

    The brutal fighting following Yugoslav breakup.

    The Kosovo War 1998 / 99

    The 1991 “ten day war” in Slovenia.

    The 1991 / 92 South Ossetia war.

    The War in Abkhazia from 1992 to 1993

    The Transnistria war of 1992.

    The 1994 / 96 Chechen war.

    The 1999 Dagestan War.

    The 1999 – 2009 Second Chechen war.

    The 1999 – 2001 insurgency in the Preševo Valley.

    The 2001 insurgency in the Republic of Macedonia

    The civil war in Ingushetia, 2007 to date.

    The Georgian / Russian war of 2008.

    The insurgency in North Caucasus 2009 to present date.

    Conflict in Ukraine 2013 to date.

    The Greens, out of touch as usual.

    • trobrianders

      She means none of her dinner parties were interrupted.

    • Discuscutter

      By historical standards it is one of the most peaceful times but that has happened before, it will come and go.

      • GnosticBrian

        And the EVIDENCE that this is down to the EU rather than NATO or MAD?

        • Discuscutter

          There is no evidence that it is down to the EU, I would say that they are both down to the same root causes. I

          • GnosticBrian

            So Caroline Lucas is wrong to think that the EU has brought about the claimed era of peace.

            • Discuscutter

              Certainly.
              Correlation is not causation.

  • paul

    Cameron dug the hole so it is up to him to get out of it and what he will find now that all the people that he kicked on the way up have been waiting to kick him on the way down twice as hard and it is laughable that Cameron like the Scottish Referendum wants the Labour Party to bail him out – AGAIN – yet week on week he only shows contempt for the Labour Party if I were Corbyn I would let him stew in his own steaming heap of self pity !!!

  • John Carins

    The left has never woken up. It uses social envy and emotion to garner support. It will forever continue its moronic zombie state. It must never be allowed to succeed. Brexit will bring liberation and if the left by doing nothing helps this cause then that is just fine by me.

    • Cobbett

      The ‘left’ have already succeeded.

      • John Carins

        If that is the case then more reason to get out of the dictatorial EU.

    • trobrianders

      Yes with Brexit we not only shake off Brussels but traitorous Scots too. Happy days.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        And the Welsh. And quite likely London.

        And never mind the fighting in Northern Ireland.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      Ah yes, the PC bigotry and projection, Mr. Zombie, as you fight democracy. As you talk about ending it here…

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