Coffee House

Europe, Islamism and some uncomfortable home truths

22 March 2016

5:20 PM

22 March 2016

5:20 PM

The flags are at half-mast in Westminster in a show of solidarity with Brussels, one of those ceremonies Europe seems to be getting used to. We’re long used to the statements of shock by politicians (why the shock?) as well as the platitudes about this having nothing to do with any particular religion. After that we have the now traditional focus of all our anger and grief towards Katie Hopkins, as if what she says or believes makes any difference to the growing problem facing Europe.

Not all of Europe, of course. Central Europe, chiefly Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic, remain largely safe from the terror threat, despite the former in particular being a Nato player in the Middle East. It is precisely because the reasons for this are so obvious that they cannot be mentioned. Poland is 0.1 percent Muslim, most of whom are from a long-settled Tartar community, Britain is 5 percent, France 9 percent and Brussels 25 percent, and those numbers are growing.


For all the goodwill shown by the vast majority of people in Europe, Muslim and non-Muslim, and for all those things that shouldn’t have to be said – that most Muslims hate this monstrosity – these statistics correlate to terrorism risk. That’s not something people want to hear when they have a desperate urge to feel solidarity, but it is true nonetheless. It may well be that as the Muslim population increases in any European country, the radicalisation risk grows exponentially, since such extremism thrives on ghettoisation and isolation. Neither the French policy of integration nor the British model of multiculturalism can stop this. There is no sign of Islamism disappearing anytime soon. These problems will not go away. It is simply a facet of the multi-ethnic society we now inhabit.

After Paris I wrote:

Radical Islamism thrives in the absence of other identities, which is why it is especially prevalent among second-generation immigrants, who are more likely to feel alienated and torn between cultures. This alienation, which is reflected in statistics on mental illness among the children of migrants, is the flipside of what Salman Rushdie called the world of the “cultural mestizo” found in the arts; to the especially talented this provides the sort of confusion and nuance that might produce great novels or films but to others it brings great stress and confusion. 

Religion provides the comfort of certainty, something politicians have failed to see because they have assumed that particular Western values are universal or inevitable, when they are actually quite unusual and fragile; this was reflected in Barack Obama’s statement that the Paris atrocities were an attack on “universal values”.

Added to this we have another serious problem, the growing absence of jobs for lower-skilled men, an explosive mixture in a Europe that has in many of its cities groups of men united by a universalistic religion with an ambivalent attitude to violence.

Central Europeans have become the new target for liberal snobbery in the past couple of years, their antediluvian attitudes to Islamic migration making them the new hillbillies; low-status whites it’s okay to mock on account of their views. But looking at what is happening in Brussels, London and Paris, is it not rather rational for them to look at Merkel’s open-borders policy and the whole multicultural thing with some scepticism? I suspect those flags will be back at half mast soon enough.

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Show comments
  • Chamber Pot

    Quite so. It is all very well looking down your noses at Eastern hillbillies but there is no consolation in doing so while staring at the sharp blade held against your throat ?

  • Hegelman

    Hindus and Jews and Christians and Buddhists and atheists and agnostics are perfectly fine to have as immigrants. But there must be a stop to Muslim immigration.

    • WTF

      Like Trump, I want a proper vetting system in place as I don’t believe in discrimination on race or religion. If you can’t prove you’re no threat and are denied entry to a country, that’s your problem and no one elses. If no one of an ethnic group can prove they are no threat, that is still their problem and no one elses.

  • lancastrian1

    This is from the Reliance of The Traveller, the classic manual of sharia law. With islam comes sharia law and jihad. That is the simple truth we need to recognise.

    Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs), which is why the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said as he was returning from jihad. “We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.”
    The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus (def: b7) is such Koranic verses as:
    (1) “Fighting is prescribed for you” (Koran 2:216);
    (2) “Slay them wherever you find them” (Koran 4:89);
    (3) “Fight the idolators utterly” (Koran 9:36);

    and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
    “I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah”;
    and the hadith reported by Muslim,
    “To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it.”Details concerning jihad are found in the accounts of the military expeditions of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), including his own martial forays and those on which he dispatched others. The former consist of the ones he personally attended, some twenty-seven (others say twenty-nine) of them. He fought in eight of them, and killed only one person with his noble hand, Ubayy ibn Khalaf, at the battle of Uhud. On the latter expeditions he sent others to fight, himself remaining at Medina, and these were forty-seven in number.)


    The caliph (o25) makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians (N: provided he has first invited them to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, then invited them to enter the social order of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax (jizya, def: o11.4)-which is the significance of their paying it, not the money itself-while remaining in their ancestral religions) (O: and the war continues) until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax (O: in accordance with the word of Allah Most High,
    “Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and His messenger have forbidden-who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book-until they pay the poll tax out of hand and are humbled” (Koran 9.29), the time and place for which is before the final descent of Jesus (upon whom be peace). After his finalcoming, nothing but Islam will be accepted from them, for taking the poll tax is only effective until Jesus’ descent (upon him and our Prophet be peace), which is the divinely revealed law of Muhammad. The coming of Jesus does not entail a separate divinely revealed law, for he will rule

    • JabbaPapa

      Good jolly old RoP.

  • Faithful

    The violence and racial theories of Nazism were in Meine Kampf but few read it because it was verbose and few thought World War 2 would come. Every political or religious movements follows the words example and teaching of their founders. Islam’s founder was by any standard a inhuman man whose moral values were corrupt. The issue is his example is followed because he is the law giver and a mouthpiece. Hs behaviour therefore is an example to his followers. Therefore his followers must be excluded because they bring immoral behaviour and war. It might be unfashionable but its true. There is no moderate Islam and Islam if it has any peace… is only for those who submit to it. Within it there is sharia law. Do Europeans want to live and suffer Islam? No we don’t anymore than we want Nazism of Bolshevism. I would prefer to live in a society whose ethical and moral system is Christian. Tolerance is not accepting everything…and Islam is not acceptable because of its founder. Because I have said the above according to Islam I merit death. That is my point…why let this into Europe? Why? The conquest of Europe has been Islam’s aim and dream. Why are we doing nothing to stop it as our ancestors did?

  • MC

    I do not respect islam.

  • Jonathan Tedd

    Muslim woman tears up Israeli flag at the Brusells memorial – onlookers do nothing.

    • Sanctimony

      They’re Belgians, for God’s sake…

      • James Burrow

        Not a helpful comment…

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    Spot on article. If a country has a Muslim population of four hundred and only five percent are receptive to radical, Islamist ideology, you still, twenty thousand people you have to watch. Most of Europe has much larger Muslim populations than this. The majority of Muslims may never take on ,board, Jihadist ideology. But you will still have a serious ongoing problem. That is very difficult to entirely eradicate. It may be that support for Jihadist ideology among the Muslim, diaspora, in the west, will ebb and flow.

  • Ralph Musgrave

    Does Ed West actually get paid for writing the above boring load of hot air?

    • MC

      I suspect he did get paid for saying what needs to be said. Are you one of those musser sympathisers?

  • Jonah Varlik

    Europe had Christ and rejected him. Mohommed has stepped into the vaccuum.

    • MC

      Where do you get that idiocy from. As Europe as evolved Europeans have rejected fairy stories. What we failed to do was stop the import of new fairy tales. Thankfully the largest and fastest growing group in Europe in non believers.

  • logdon

    ‘especially prevalent among second-generation immigrants, who are more likely to feel alienated and torn between cultures.’

    They alienate themselves. Even the young toe rags who on the face of it eschew the robes and huge beards.

    The Subaru is a weapon of choice and the driving appalling. The arrogance is a wierd retaliation merely because they’re not in charge. Criminality and violence is way out of proportion to their numbers. Drug dealing is rampant. In other words fitting in is the last thing on their minds.

    But why should they?

    Our passivity feeds this obnoxious attitude and the law is mainly on their side.

    They know the score and this no-mans land they inhabit is a perfect nurturing ground for racist hatred.

  • Bain Dewitt

    “most Muslims hate this monstrosity” [citation needed]. even the cuckiest, anti-whitiest single-issue “counterjihadists” don’t believe this. A poll of 500 British muslims showed that amongst 18 to 24yr olds, 28% thought that suicide bombing of military targets in the UK was justified. D’oh! Every single opinion poll shows that same thing, that at least 10% and more of muslims surveyed are happy to openly declare they support blowing up whitey.

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  • King Zog

    I’m off to Hungary, then. Or Poland, even. Land of Chopin, Szymanowski and Gorecki. Ah, paradisium…

  • James

    If David Cameron stopped doing trade with Saudi Arabia we would not have to turn the UK into an Islamic state.

  • prompteetsincere

    Je NE suis pas.

    • JabbaPapa

      je suis pas is acceptable in informal language, including interwebs discussion forums.

      • Sanctimony

        As is bollocks….</i.

  • Haloge

    As far as i can see the Central Europeans appear to be the only ones displaying any common sense on this issue.

    • MC

      Yes, and look what the EU did to the only country that tried to fight the invasion: they just jailed the former leaders for genocide; aka killing hundreds of muslim terrorists who entered the region and sparked disorder. However the gruaniad and BBC seem to think that it’s OK for muslims to kill Europeans but not OK for Europeans to defence themselves. It is the same twisted mentality that supports Palestinian terrorists by saying Israel must be proportionate in relatilation. I support Israel’s right to defend itself in whichever way it sees fit.

      • Penny

        It’s hard to know what people mean when they say that Israel must be “proportionate” in its response. Does it mean that Israel should match Hamas, rocket for rocket, fired indiscriminately into civilian areas? Probably not.

        More often than not, though, I’ve found that those demanding “proportionality” have a peculiar idea that it’s a matter of casualty figures. So, what are they asking – that Israel sits back until, say, 5 Israelis are killed, and then cracks on until it has levelled the score? It’s a bizarre notion which, in my view, makes civilians the objective of a war.

  • Cheddarcakes

    The Muslim world is becoming more backwards, more aggressive, more medieval and more intolerant of criticism. Just look at Turkey the so called modern and progressive nation of the Islamic world , millions of Turks support ISIS and Sharia law. A full fifth (21%) of Syrians support ISIS and we have just let hundreds of thousands of them into the EU.

    We deserve the terrorist attacks for being so stupid as to welcome our own destruction

    • James

      I have not seen the German head of security services press conference on any UK news – confirming ISIS had sent an people disguised as migrants and 33,000 of the 1mil allowed into Germany had skipped registration and are missing. He went on to say they are now untraceable and could be anywhere in Europe, probably living in safe houses. David Cameron tells us we are safer in Europe.

    • gelert

      40% of UK Muslims voted in favour of Sharia for all Brits a few years ago.

  • James Burrow

    If God, Allah or Jehovah really existed, he’d have made a better job of humanity. As science has unequivocally proved, we evolved from microscopic cells, not the ‘Adam & Eve’ bullshit we’re told at Sunday school. The quicker humanity stops pedalling religious lies and hatred to its children and starts trying to improve the world with science and voluntary birth control, the quicker religious terrorism will cease, IT’S THAT BLOODY SIMPLE!

    • JabbaPapa

      Then why is there something rather than nothing ?

      • James Burrow

        Well that’s the great mystery isn’t it. If you invent your own religon’s creator, as they all do, you have to prove who created the creator! If you’re saying ‘the universe can’t have appeared from nothing’ then neither can he who you believe created it.

        • JabbaPapa

          Riiiiight — Philosophy not one of your strengths then, I guess

          Do you understand that the Zero Cause (God) cannot be conceived of as being a consequence of any first or second Causes existing within material Reality ?

          Also — WHY should I have to “prove” what you describe as a “great mystery” ?

          • James Burrow

            I did actually reply to your question three days ago but the moderators marked it as ‘pending’ I shall re-word it thus to avoid further censorship:
            I asked that if God ‘loves and saves’ why weren’t the six million (of a certain faith beginning with ‘J’), who prayed several times a day during 1939-45, ‘saved’ and why were thousands of Filipino Muslims washed into the sea by the great tsunami (classed by insurance companies as an ‘Act of God’)? (According to the Bible, drowning is apparently one of the Lord’s favourite ways of ridding the World of its non-believers).

    • Doctor Crackles

      ‘he’d have made a better job of humanity’ is not an objective position, but your subjective notion.

      ‘science has unequivocally proved, we evolved from microscopic cells’ science has done no such thing and cannot ever do such a thing. Science has no ‘dog’ in the evolution vs religion fight, which is an argument between competing faiths.

      If you believe that all religions are to blame for Muslim terror then you really are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

      • James Burrow

        Well Doc, I’m just trying to keep things simple. I believe in what I can see, feel, touch, smell and hear. Not in the disproven theories of religions that seek to indoctrinate the minds of children, whatever race they’re from. You think I believe that ‘all religions are to blame for Muslim terror’. I didn’t write that, but I’m sure the Muslims would’ve thought the same of ‘Christian terror’ back in the Crusades? I simply saying if we just stop telling each other (forcibly with terrorism), that “my God’s better than your God” and stop believing what was written (then translated umpteen times), in books by relatively uneducated people, without the benefit of modern science, the world would become a safer place.

        • James

          There is more evidence that the universe and life was created than there is evidence of the big bang theory. Think about how nature works and connects with the planets.

          • James Burrow

            How does nature connect with other planets? I’m 57 and have grown up watching nature programmes all my life. From what I can see, most specieshave evolved to eat those that are weaker or defenceless. That is the sickest system for life to continue I can think of and would have taken someone with an evil mind to have thought of. I’d prefer not to blame a ‘creator’ for that, but can see that the evolution of any species will adapt to benefit itself.

            • James

              The sun makes nature happen, as does the moon that helps control our rivers and seas.

              • James Burrow

                Hi James, yes I totally agree with that, but I was confused when you mentioned ‘planets’ because neither the Sun nor the Moon are planets. The Sun is a classed as a star and the Moon is well, a moon! Other planets like Earth also have moons orbiting them.

                I’ve actually often thought that if people MUST have something to worship, it should really be the Sun, because without it, all life will cease to exist on Earth, no matter which God you believe in. It is sadly inevitable and of course disproves the statement ‘World without end’ often heard in churches.

                • James

                  Precisely – the orbit of planets and stars is why life exists and earth is stable. This means humans are able to live with the correct atmosphere and breathe oxygen, as well as enabling nature to happen for sustaining human life and involvement. Jupiter’s gravitational force is why our planet has survived – this planet has protected us from asteroids and comets, pulling them away from our planet. World leading scientists have ended careers confessing that something god-like created this system.

                • James Burrow

                  Well if something God-like created our solar system working in such a precise way as to allow life on Earth, why would this being waste its time creating all the billions of other galaxies and solar systems, most of which are eternally incapable of supporting life? Wouldn’t that be a massive waste of effort and totally pointless?

                  Also, why create a world where most things have to brutally kill and eat each other to survive? Why create different types of human with different coloured skin and features, speaking different languages, then give them the emotions of hatred, jealousy and persecution? Why send different ‘prophets’ to force those ‘created’ humans to believe in him or be killed, then sit back and watch them kill each other over their differences? Only a self-centred, narcissistic, megalomaniac would do that! Certainly not worthy of worship! I prefer to think that out of the vast number of planets in the never-ending Universe, we coincidentally happened to be in the right place at the right time in the Sun’s limited lifespan, for conditions (light and water), to be sufficient to support organic life. Fossils of this primitive organic life have been found and carbon dated, as have countless more fossils of life, that existed long before the Bible or Koran were ever thought about. You can’t dispute physical evidence of evolutionary life compared to compendiums of impossible tales written by various men of dubious sanity, morals and motives can you?

                • James

                  The bible may have been a fantasy written by anyone but, that does not discount a god-like creator. We don’t have to brutally kill each other that is choice of man and free will. There are many theories about the universe from earth being the last living planet that can sustain life with scientists believing there was life on mars; multiverse is another theory but, nobody knows for sure. I follow no religion but keep an open mind because, life, nature, human beings and many things are far too complex and amazing to have been an accident.

                • James Burrow

                  I think we’re on the same page now and I agree with pretty much all of that, especially the bit about killing each other! I suppose we’re all agnostic in reality and in that respect, I’m still open to being convinced. But I don’t want Muslims, Jews, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics or C of E trying to convince me with hogwash quotes and horrific threats from their story-books.

                  I am a kind-hearted person who does a lot for charity and animal welfare. If only all humans could show some kindness towards one-another and other non-human species, the World would be a happier place.

                  My Christian mother served God all her life; playing the church organ, cleaning the church and vicarage voluntarily, knitting hundreds of blankets for Africa and delivering/collecting Christian Aid envelopes on dark, wet evenings. She died a slow (4 months) and particularly agonising death 8 years ago and the pain still lingers for my father, brother and myself. We prayed every day, begging the Lord to help her, but of course, he didn’t. He doesn’t help most people in a similar position, but when someone rarely makes a ‘miraculous’ recovery, people say it was the Lord who saved them! (A bit like gamblers only telling their friends when they’ve won something, not all the losses they’ve made).

                  So I’ll keep an open mind as you suggest but would prefer to think there wasn’t a ‘supreme being’ who was obviously so thoughtless and uncaring towards my mother and other good people I’ve known, as I would see it as a complete betrayal. Terry Wogan became an atheist for similar reasons…

                • James

                  Charles Darwin is arguably the greatest biologist that ever lived. During his time he denounced God because of a bee species in South America that plants eggs inside creatures and offspring develop by eating those creatures from the inside out – who would design such a cruel insect. Well, Satan. If God exists so does Lucifer and that is why there is so much evil around.

                • James E.

                  My thoughts entirely re. the Bee. But who created Lucifer?

                • James

                  Personality-wise – himself?

        • King Zog

          “I simply saying if we just stop telling each other (forcibly with
          terrorism), that “my God’s better than your God” and stop believing what
          was written (then translated umpteen times), in books by relatively
          uneducated people, without the benefit of modern science, the world
          would become a safer place.”

          Bombs. Big, f*ck-off nucular bombs. Big bombs. Big. Sciencsy. Bombs.


          Science. Science! SCIENCE!!


          H. Bombs.

          • James Burrow

            And your point is? If religious people stopped waging war on each other for believing in a different God, prophet or deity, there would be far less war and no need for bombs! Science isn’t all about making bombs, for me it’s about health research, solar power, wind power, green energy. I’d like to see science used in a positive way not in a negative way. But of course religious fanatics just love bombs don’t they!

          • James Burrow

            I actually replied to this 2 days ago but my question was moderated and still marked as ‘pending’ I asked that if God saves and loves, why didn’t he help the six million who prayed to him several times a day in 1939-45? (Re worded this time to avoid censorship)!

            “Science. Science! SCIENCE!!”
            No need to shout lol.

            • King Zog

              Did you get an answer?

      • James Burrow

        Cognitive dissonance? There’s nothing inconsistent about my thinking Doc. I think religious teachings encourage violence – something I am opposed to. As someone else pointed out on here, the ‘terrorists’ are actually Jihadists, simply carrying out the instructional verses of the Koran, to kill the non-believers.

        In the Bible, God responded to man’s sin in a “holy and righteous manner”, but also in a way that salvaged mankind. “So the Lord said, ‘I will wipe from the face of the earth, the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them”. But Noah found favour in the eyes of the Lord” (Genesis 6:7, 8).

        Why the animals?? What did they do wrong?

        Yes, all people on earth died except the eight people who were found righteous in the eyes of God: Noah, Noah’s wife, and Noah’s three sons and their wives. Scripture indicates that Noah testified to the world about the coming flood for 120 years…

        He must’ve been extremely healthy to have lived for so long without any medical problems!

        The people who perished in the flood died because they refused to acknowledge God or seek his forgiveness. Noah, on the other hand, is described as righteous, blameless, and obedient in that he “walked with God” (Genesis 6:9).

        So apparently, non-believers were wiped out and we have all descended from just 8 righteous people (which is probably genetically impossible, without severe deformities) and of course just two of each of the known 7.7 million species of animals there are on earth! How did they all fit on the boat??

        This is my worry. People actually believe this stuff – and kill each other over their differing interpretation of the mumbo-jumbo.

        As I said, if people woke up and realised that none of this could have actually happened, the world would be a happier place.

    • James

      God gave humanity free will.

      • James Burrow

        When did he tell you that? Or did you read it in the books (Bible etc.), that were written by poorly educated men, thousands of years ago? I’m not saying they were thick, but they had no scientific knowledge in those days. For example, scientists have calculated that the Sun (the true giver of all life on Earth), will burn out in 5 billion years, after which the World will cease to exist. What does that make of the statement ‘World without end’?

        • JabbaPapa

          poorly educated men


          Clearly, far better educated than you are.

          • James Burrow

            Oh here we go, a good religious man throwing insults already – not surprisingly! I was merely stating a fact, not insulting them. They could not POSSIBLY have been as well educated as present day scientists. There were no colleges or universities then, no electricity, computers, telescopes etc. and certainly no carbon dating equipment. How on earth could they possess the knowledge our scientists have amassed over recent centuries? Most people thought the Earth was flat in those days! The word Mediterranean means ‘middle of the Earth’ (as Im sure you’re aware), so called because they thought it was a sea surrounded by Earth and if you went too far you’d fall off the edge. Now tell me again, were they really better educated then me?

            • JabbaPapa

              I was merely stating a fact

              No you weren’t, you were posting on the basis of prejudice.

              Archimedes had no access to “colleges or universities then, no electricity, computers, telescopes etc. and certainly no carbon dating equipment.” Was he “poorly educated” too ?

              • James Burrow

                Prejudiced? Against who? I stand by what I said, there were NO colleges, universities, electricity, computers, telescopes or carbon-dating equipment. The first telescope was invented in 1608AD therefore, I was stating an unbiased, unprejudiced FACT.

                • JabbaPapa

                  Prejudiced? Against who?

                  Prejudice doesn’t have to be “against” anyone, as your education should have told you.

                  Your prejudice is leading you to confuse technology with educational quality — but they are two entirely different things.

                  Today’s best-educated are not more poorly educated than they will be in 300 years when there will be even better facilities available ; nor were yesterday’s best-educated more poorly educated than today’s.

                • James Burrow

                  Have you really thought about what you’re saying here? With the benefit of constant new discoveries and technological advancement, of course present day students are better educated than those of 2000 odd years ago! Similarly, future students will be educated to a far higher standard than us a if the World survives for much longer!

                • JabbaPapa

                  Have you really thought about what you’re saying here?

                  Well, you clearly haven’t — you claim that men in Antiquity were “poorly educated” on the basis of exactly ZERO supporting evidence, versus the blatant counter-evidence that you’re discussing authors whose literary works have been constantly “in print” for MILLENNIA, and for ideological reasons having NOTHING to do with educational quality as such.

                  It would OTOH be very prudent to suppose that such authors as Aristotle, Archimedes, Julius Caesar, Ezekiel, Isaiah, St Paul, St Augustine were the beneficiaries of extremely high educational standards.

                  You are confusing the contents and tools of the teaching professions with the nature of Education as such, in a false qualitative assessment that boils down to nothing except for “more=better”.

                  Your claims are utterly absurd — are present day students “better educated” than Leonardo da Vinci, because he had no access to “electricity, computers, telescopes etc. and certainly no carbon dating equipment” ???

                  The incremental improvement over the millennia of educational systems says exactly NOTHING about the relative quality of the education received by particular individuals throughout History compared to others, but only about the quantity and the nature of the knowledge provided, and the ongoing methodological shifts in the educational process itself.

                  The relative quality of the education can be directly compared only at the synchronic level, not the diachronic ; so that a man today with a third-class undergraduate degree from some grisly ex-polytechnic can be described as being more poorly educated than another with a first-class postgraduate degree from one of the major Universities.

                  But let’s get real — neither of these men are likely to be “better educated” than Da Vinci, Archimedes, or Augustine.

                • James Burrow

                  You misunderstand me sir. I’m certainly not saying ‘more = better’. I’m simply saying that with massive improvements in technology, new discoveries throughout the centuries and with the benefit of scientific apparatus that Archimedes et al, could only have dreamt of, our present day scientific students and professors can’t help but be better qualified than those of the ancient world.

                  When I said ‘poorly educated’ I wasn’t insulting the educators of that time, I was comparing that which we know of today with what educators of the past could not possibly have known then. Hence, we are better educated now.

                  For example, if your geography teacher taught you that the Earth was flat and drew a grossly inaccurate map of the known world, would you have received a better quality education by him than by a present day geography teacher who taught you the World was spherical and exhibited an extremely accurate map of the World using Google Earth, projected onto a screen, showing different climatic regions and relief etc.? I don’t really understand your argument. My daughter’s education is better than mine and her children’s will be better than hers, thanks to new knowledge and discoveries. You’re quoting famous names from the past and are basically saying “how dare you criticise their education”, when in reality we have present day scientists whom you’ve probably never heard of, who possess far more knowledge of this planet/solar system, etc. than Archimedes would ever have known!

            • Haloge
              • James Burrow

                Thanks Haloge, all very interesting!

        • James

          Think of the complexity of human beings and especially the brain – do you believe that was an accident?

          • James Burrow

            Well we weren’t always as complex as we are today. One only has to look back at our evolutionary path; the remains of our ancient ancestors, Neanderthal man, apes, amphibians, marine invertebrates, right down to the first simple, single-cell forms of life that existed in the ancient oceans, to see how we’ve evolved over countless millennia. Even now, many species are adapting (evolving), to cope with the changes man is making to their habitat, but those who can’t, sadly perish. All this is scientifically documented evidence. Surely you can’t still discount these unbiased facts in favour of Adam & Eve and Noah’s Ark tales??? It has been calculated that if all this planet’s (frozen and vapourized) water was liquified at once, it would only raise the average sea level by 1 inch. How then, did Noah’s Ark (containing pairs of every species of animal from across the globe!), come to rest at the top of a mountain, 7000 ft high? Oh and all this took place to drown the Lord’s non-believers!

            • James

              Most scientific theories are eventually disproved.

              • James Burrow


        • ArchiePonsonby

          The Old Testament is a collection of Jewish folk tales. Religion is a belief system invented by man to explain his existence…………………..or so I’ve heard!

          • James Burrow

            Exactly. But here we are, over 2000 years down the line, with heaps of scientific evidence to the contrary and millions of gullible individuals STILL believe everything those ancient myths say. I find it really quite staggering.

            • ArchiePonsonby

              Well quite! Just goes to show the power of words, although whenever I hear that “the pen is mightier than the sword” my stock response is that it rather depends whom is wielding which!

    • King Zog

      “If God, Allah or Jehovah really existed, he’d have made a better job of humanity.”

      Damn Him for not existing! Why could He not exist? I mean, it’d be so easy for Him… and we’d be so much happier! And better (as you assert)… Why does He not exist? Why? Pourquoi?

      “As science has unequivocally proved, we evolved from microscopic cells,
      not the ‘Adam & Eve’ bullshit we’re told at Sunday school.”

      You went to Sunday School? Not an atheist from birth?

      “…and starts trying to improve the world with science and voluntary birth control…”

      Done, and done.


      No need to shout.

      • MC

        Zog, I presume you are aiming to be the King of Idiots.

  • johnb1945

    This article is very perceptive.

    Jihadism is, indeed, a reflection of the way in which 2nd gen Muslims are being torn between identities, and leaving the Muslim identity can be insecure. You may lose your family over it.

    We need to be steadfast in ensuring that the alternative for those who leave is secure and welcoming, and leave they will. I have seen it with my own eyes.

  • BaronHardup

    As a second generation Irish Catholic immigrant, Ed West seems to fit his own description well.

  • Bemused

    We saw what you did there Ed;
    “Britain is 5 percent, France 9 percent and Brussels 25 percent, and those numbers are growing.”
    To bolster a reasonable but fairly weak argument you have compared national to city statistics to assess alleged risk so you can come up with Belgium as the bad guy. Should you not have compared Brussels (25%) with Marseilles (20%) Barcelona (17%) Rotterdam (13%) Copenhagen & Paris (10%) and London (9%) or perhaps carried on from Britain (5%) and France (9%) with Belgium (9%).
    Nobody minds polemic but try to have some integrity and credibility with your stats.

    • JabbaPapa

      Well said.

    • ProfessorPistov

      Anything above 0% anywhere is too much.

  • WTF

    The choice is simple –

    Do we ignore irresponsible parents who try and enter the EU illegally and end up with their child dead on a Greek beach !
    Risk letting in more Islamic terrorists into the EU to murder over 30 people and maim hundreds in one terrorist attack !

    The security services have estimated there are at least 5,000 ISIS terrorists operating in Europe as of this moment, that’s potentially 1,500 Brussels style terrorist attacks. Do the numbers, 1,500 attacks, 30 killed per attack that’s over 45,000 people dead & 300,000 injured on the altar of political correctness thanks to progressive liberals in power like Merkal or Juncker and many more.

    Are the elite establishment paying the price for that death toll ?
    Are the progressive liberals paying the price for that death toll ?
    Are the ‘oh so moral high ground’ celebrities paying the price for that death toll ?

    And what does Obama or Clinton say, “We must work together”. Work with who ? ISIS don’t negotiate in a way that even the worst 20th century dictator would negotiate. This is not an IRA or ETA style negotiating stitch up what ever you believe about those terror organizations. Our leaders refuse to acknowledge who we are up against, what motivates them or even call them by their correct name, and whilst they have 24/7 protection, the electorate is at permanent risk from being shot, blown up or even worse.

    • James Burrow

      Totally agree with you.

  • Doctor Crackles

    If we are to have any long term hope of victory we must greatly increase the indigenous British birthrate. In the Netherlands Geert Wilders is on trial for publicly stating he wants ‘fewer Moroccans’, but without more Dutch there is no vitality behind this sentiment. It is true we cannot out breed Islam, but we can produce enough young men to serve as our defence. We could certainly use the millions of aborted baby boys right now.

    • James Burrow

      I agree with your point, but a population race within the UK will only fuel global population which is bad for the planet in general. Probably best to simply stop all further immigration from Islamic countries and deport any terrorist sympathisers, including those who protest in favour of Sharia Law, those who protest against British forces and democracy. Basically get rid of any anti-British Muslims that pose as a potential security threat, or try to Islamify the UK. Definitely ban hahal slaughter for a start.

      • Penny

        I’m a bit late to this thread but…. I don’t think the deportation idea is viable..To which country do you deport British-born terrorist sympathisers (and those who want Shari’a/protest against British forces etc)? Even if they have dual nationality, you can’t force the country in question to take those you don’t want.

        • James Burrow

          Well if their country of ethnic origin refuses to take them back, it doesn’t say much for them does it? They’ll have to be imprisoned indefinitely.

  • Odo Saunders

    The BBC will do anything to play down the Islamist threat currently facing Europe in order ro ensure that the British public will not vote for Brexit. All the news organisations need to be honest with their listners/viewers and to admit that the Schengen Agrrement is a security failure, while also pointing out that Belgium is a failed state that is incapable of dealing with the current threat to its borders. Belgium does not have the security apparatus to assist any other country in this matter. The ruling classes will continue to wring their hands and hope that the situation will improve one day, unable/unwilling to improve the current security arrangements due to their desire to promote their cherished dream of a multicultural Europe. Why do we continue to vote for them? Ah yes, the European electorates are more concerned with their television reality shows and sport. Has anything changed since the time of the Roman Empire when the populace could be bought off with “bread and circuses?” The events in Belgium will be largely forgotten by Saturday morning when the BBC will announce the start of “another great sporting weekend!” During this time the terrorists will quietly continue to plan for another atrocity.

  • David

    What is Islamism?
    Is it anything to do with Islam?

  • Sean L

    Well put.

  • D Cripps

    It’s not an exact science but Peter Hammond has remarked on previously observed correlation between % of Muslim population (I guess that means those who support sharia-law) and violence…

    • abystander

      Nothing this protestant writes is science.

      • Doctor Crackles


        • abystander

          Have you seen his loopy, loony site?

  • Nick

    As world leaders Cameron,Merkel,Hollande and the leader of Belgium have become irrelevant now.That’s because they have failed to protect us adequately against the threat of islam that is staring us in the face.

    They know that accepting so many muslims to live amongst us is wrong but they do not possess the maturity to accept that they are wrong.

    Solidarity gestures like illuminating the Eiffel Tower or saying I’m Ju suis whatever will do nothing to prevent the next attacks.

    Muslims have got to be removed from Europe on masse.

    Remove them humanely but do it soon.

    • Bill Fitzgerald

      Totally agree. Use our foreign aid budget to cover the costs of repatriation back to muslim lands. It may take a generation but it will be money well spent.

      • Nick

        If the military were allowed to run it,thousands could be removed within weeks.

        • JabbaPapa

          If the military were allowed to run it, the UK would become a totalitarian dictatorship.

          • Nick

            Why? Why do you think that totalitarian dictatorship would happen just because our armed forces removed them?

            • JabbaPapa


              • Nick

                / leg-foot/

                • James Burrow


  • grimm

    The goodwill shown by Westerners toward third world immigrants has been wasted and is not reciprocated. Instead we get increasingly refined and subtle definitions of racism and xenophobia as immigrants and their Left wing supporters seek prove we are all racists bigots even if we think we are not. If there were no real racists they would have to invent them.

    If most Muslims hate the monstrosity of terrorism (as Ed West says) they are keeping very quiet about it. The arrogance of the waves of “refugees” streaming in from Southern Europe (demanding a new life while claiming to be seeking asylum) will warn anyone whose mind isn’t dulled by the so called humanitarian values drummed into us since childhood that Muslims have no gratitude or respect for the goodwill shown by Westerners.

  • Jacobi

    We must stop using this term “ Terrorist” regarding the Brussels murderers. It is inappropriate. Yes they use terror as a weapon, but they are orthodox Muslims carrying out actions which they understand their prophet has permitted them to do and they believe they will be duly rewarded for these actions which they see as legitimate orthodox Muslim actions.

    It is essential always to understand the mind of your enemy.

    • Opal

      So very true. “Terrorist” is not the correct term. It would be more appropriate to call them Mujahideen, which is exactly what they are: A Mujahid is a Muslim engaged in jihad as a guerilla warrior, against non-Muslim forces. They are well-trained and highly motivated soldiers of Allah. Western governments and media seem to be poorly educated on the topic – they seem to know nothing about what Islam is.

      Similarly, the Muslim illegal invader/migrants are not random people fleeing terror – they are engaged in Hijrah – Jihad by emigration. The general public may not know, but the government and media should know – everyone had better wise up, and fast.

    • janetjH

      Yes Jacobi, this will help you understand:

  • Willhelm

    Educated or uneducated, employed or unemployed, rich or poor, productive member of society or unproductive member of society… none of it matters. Why? Because EVERYONE knows mass murder is wrong! There are no excuses for slaughtering innocents. Period! I am sick and tired of the media and politically correct government elites shoving excuses down our throats!