Coffee House

How the migrant crisis could get much worse

29 February 2016

6:43 PM

29 February 2016

6:43 PM

Angela Merkel gave a defiant interview last night in which she defended her handling of the refugee crisis. She declared, ‘I have no Plan B’—worryingly, I suspect this is true.

But how much worse the refugee crisis could become worse is made clear in leaked minutes of a meeting between the President of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Donald Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker. As Bloomberg columnist Marc Champion points out, Erdogan is determined to get far more out of the EU than the 3 billion Euros it is currently offering. He tells them that if the offer is for only 3 billion, the conversation might as well end there: “We can open the doors to Greece and Bulgaria anytime and we can put the refugees on buses.” He warns them that if Turkey opens its borders, there won’t just be the body of one dead boy on a beach but 10 to 15 thousand.

What this leak shows is how hard it will be to get a functional EU Turkey deal. And if Erdogan carries out his threats, which is unlikely but not impossible, the migrant crisis will enter a new and even more dangerous phase.

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Show comments
  • AndrewMelville

    Europe, even under the non leadership of the EU, does not need Turkey. It doesn’t need any trade, finance or labour from Turkey. Lock the borders tight. Admit no one. Expel the Turk from NATO, throw a couple of anti-aircraft weapons systems to the Kurds and sit back and watch the fun.

    Who does this pipsqueak, Erdogan think he is? He needs to be taught not to cheek his betters.

  • DaHitman

    So the Turks keep allowing immigrants to slip into the EU and the EU thanks the Turks by giving them unlimited visas for its 80 MILLION MUSLIMS, WTF

  • global city

    in the long run, it is us or them…. so we need firm action now.

  • Jacobi

    Turkey, the real villain in this Islamisation of Europe crisis, will open the door regardless. Sooner if they don’t get the extra money, later and steadily, if they do get it. Erdogan is correct walls will be breached.

    There is one way to deal with this. Arrest, then humane internment in holding camps, followed by internment in secure camps, until they can be returned or choose to return to their own countries.

    Now this will require enormous logistic facilities as well as police, military, a greatly expanded Gendarmerie and above all, a suitably armed and effective European Coast Guard Force to carry this out.

    No doubt some will say that is tantamount to war. Correct. We are at, war and the sooner people wake up and realise this the better

  • AraucaniaPatagonia

    If EU politicians had any cojones, they’d simply implement an all-out trade embargo against Turkey – literally, zero trade until Turkey’s Islamist president bucks up.

    But they won’t because EU politicians are more concerned with living in the people’s pockets than looking after the people’s interests.

  • logdon

    That illustration bears not one shred of likeness to the photographs of triumphant, supremacist muslims pouring in on their civilisation jihad.

    Give me your huddled masses? Not when on reaching the first safe port of call as agreed in Dublin, they refuse documentation and demand a trip to Germany.

    At least it’s not here.

  • Graham

    The unelected EU commission, Syria and the Qatar/Iran Gas pipe

    Assad’s chosen career was a medical doctor and surgeon who came to England to work in a London Hospital he met his English wife in London. His father died, his Brother took over and then died in a car accident. He was then drafted into the position. He returned to Syria married his English sweetheart and they were to modernise the “secular” state. His wife “Emma” is an educated Lady and has a computer science degree from London. Not the background of a Tyrant.

    Iran who owns 300 Trillion cubic feet of Gas on the other side of the Persian Gulf to Qatar were consulted on supplying Gas and agreed in principle to supply the gas to Turkey and the EU. (I wondered why they were cuddled up to them). They decided to take the Gas through Georgia, guess what happened, Russia said NO and moved troops in 2008.

    In 2009, Russia switched off the Gas to Ukraine (there was a dispute with Ukraine who were taking Russian gas and Money) whom via a Gas pipe was supplying Germany, France, and most of Eastern Europe including Greece via this route. Oh, I forgot and Turkey. This caused a major issue for the unelected EU commission, Eastern Europe and Turkey. It caused no issues for Great Britain as we 1. Have our own Gas 2. Are supplied via Norway 3. Have an agreement with Russia via a different routed pipeline. What has this to do with Syria?

    Well, Qatar has the largest Gas reserves in the world 900 TRILLION cubic feet Yes 900 Trillion, but here is the catch, no pipeline. So the unelected EU commission, USA (administration) and Turkish politicians had a deal with Qatar to provide pipeline through Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria and TURKEY (by the way through Kurdish Turkey). Putin and Assad said NO to the pipeline. Then and only then was the plan hatched for “regime change”!

    So yes, the unelected EU commission are responsible for the refugees, not the West, the West implies the people knew or know, they didn’t and don’t. The British establishment and the elite politicians (via a corrupt voting system in which 76% of the “electorate” did not vote for the Government) are supporting this via our contributions to the unelected EU commission, yet “we the people” have no say on what is going on. We cannot withdraw from this unelected EU commissions energy crisis or their lack of foresight and dangerous foreign policy. Unless we leave.

    Why is the USA (administration) involved? They did not want to give Russia $ foreign exchange which is the payment currency in Gas/Oil. Russia has already “invented” money $ and created billionaires via the corrupt western banking system, which is why, Russia has been removed from the Visa system. It is a bit like the BCCI scandal. So, Putin is simply being a capitalist and applying the rules of supply and demand. The unelected EU commission, not Putin, created ISIS and the “rebels” so who is to blame? The people did not want this war the unelected EU commission and politicians did over a Gas pipe.

  • Flintshire Ian

    Put the migrants in camps on Greek islands. Pay the Greeks to keep them there until (if?) peace returns to Syria, with a reasonable service charge on top of the cost. Make it clear that no-one gets any further – Aussie style.

  • The Masked Marvel

    If only Turkey had already been brought into the EU like the mandarins wanted, eh? Er….

  • commenteer

    In the end, armed border guards will have put a stop to it. While there’s still hope of getting in and being given accommodation, benefits, free education and healthcare, the flow will be endless.
    As for ‘asylum’, when the circumstances change, so must rules which were drawn up for the specific circumstances of the last world war.

    • Terry Field

      The flow will be endless and enormous, come what may. The border guards will have to machine gun vast numbers to stop them overwhelming the defences. Is that remotely likely and sustainable? Who will we collectively recruit as killers????

      • Discuscutter

        The alternative is to end the welfare state, public services, throw away the minimum wage and workers rights and accept that it will be a free for all economy.

        • EnglandLaments

          Turning Europe into the third world would do the trick – they wouldn’t want to come here then. It will happen one way or another in any case. If the hundreds of millions are not prevented from arriving, Europe will soon resemble the places they were leaving behind in the first place.

      • commenteer

        I don’t think you’re right about the endless flow. Remember, these are mainly economic migrants, certainly those from North Africa and Afghanistan. Many have come because of Merkel’s open invitation. Once they know that they are not welcome, that they won’t be let in, will be housed in camps with no hope of citizenship, etc., the flow will decrease. .
        These migrants are not hungry, they are not badly clothed, and many have paid substantial amounts to people smugglers. Apart from the smaller number of Syrians who have been bombed out of their homes, these are migrants driven only by their desire to leech on our western liberal societies, or better themselves at our expense, if you prefer. They are not an unstoppable flow, precipitated by the tide of history.

        • Discuscutter

          For the next century the pressure and the numbers coming will only increase.

          Africa and the Middle East, over to Pakistan are going to add about 2.5bn people to its total population.

          Even though many of them are growing strongly they cannot support such runaway population growth.

          This isn’t even the start of it.

        • E.I.Cronin

          Yes it’s not impossible. The human traffic industry is now worth something like 4 billion euros? If the EU effectively shut the trade down the influx would decrease. Denmark and even Sweden are reluctantly starting to change their welfare laws.

    • EnglandLaments

      We are led by moral cowards. It is clear that the postwar settlement is completely broken, including the failed asylum system and the human rights circus. Scrap the asylum system, reform human rights to make them citizen’s rights and defend Europe’s beseiged borders.
      But I am not holding my breath!

  • Discuscutter

    Egypt alone is heading for 150mn people and it depends on imported grain and aid to feed them, as it builds on its fertile lands which are very small as is.

    If Europe committed to taking 10mn a year for the next 50, it would not even dent the projected growth in Africa and the Middle East.

    Europe would though have collapsed economically, socially and politically after just a few years of it though.

  • EnglandLaments

    Nutty Mutti Merkel is an appalling traitor! It beggars belief that she is still German Chancellor, instead of in prison awaiting trial for treason.

  • Terry Field

    The desertification of the sub Saharan expanse, and the Middle East, together with the super-explosion of the local populations – an increase over the next fifty years in excess of the current populations in Europe – mean a massive migration, vastly greater than anything experienced to date, will occur.
    SO, two real choices; take them all in and utterly destroy Europe, or build an armoured barrier with huge resources applied and watch the horror on the other side of the wire as the vast hordes die.
    There are no other choices, just nuanced politicised camouflage.

    • Gilbert White

      You could also send a mordern Cecil Rhodes to sort the Natives out but presumably some sort of plague will get them before the armaggaden you mention?

      • Terry Field

        I do not suggest armageddon, just a continuation of the collapse caused by unsupportable population numbers. As for intervention, can Europe look on, and thus reduce the damage to itself, by killing huge numbers who try to storm its walls?

        • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

          Right again Terry. The population of Ethiopia for example has more tha n doubled since the time in the early eighties when Michael Burk showed us masses of starving Ethipiopes in a barren land. They could not feed themselves then so their response has been to double their population. Great idea.

    • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

      Well said. I don’t always agree with you, but you are right about this.

      Personally, I wonder when it was that we forgot what a navy was for and when we abandoned the idea that invading, swarthy brigands must be met by rapid rifle fire and artillery as they swarmed up our our beaches.

      The Greeks in their inimitable, wretched way allow a million vagabonds a year to walk into Kos intent on an uncooperative approach to being registered or controlled in any way and simply wave them on, providing sustenance and transport to the land of their northern neighbours. Greece is so incorrigible as to be an impossible ally and must be walled off with a mined border and as you say, with huge resources applied to them. We should support the rather excellent start by the Macedonians NOT as was done on the BBC last night imply concern that some children, put in harms way by a delinquent horde might have been subjected to tear gas after a savage attack on a border fence by villains.

      I’d have been happier to have seen a determined series of volleys of Martini fire as in Rourke’s Drift, myself. We should utterly reject this delinquent behaviour by would be migrants and repel it with determined force. I long to see this, and as soon as possible or we will see our continent over-run and changed beyond recognition. If there are uprisings of the dusky citizens already here, then round them up and deport them with absolute determination. We have armed forces to defend the well-being of the population. Let us use them and defend our culture and our well-being.

    • EnglandLaments

      For the UK, national survival means first getting out of the EU.

      • Terry Field

        So you say.
        The disaster that is England is the direct result of dreadful mis-government from Westminster since 1945, sauf Madame Thatcher.
        The country crawled into the EEC as a suppliant and semi-failed state in 1973. Its condition is much worse now; your delusional sweaty cheap nationalism simply hides the nasty reality; Britain is incapable of prospering anywhere now, since it is de-industrialised, de-skilled, de-educated, de- capitalised, and no longer of significance in the world. The jingoistic ravings of the leavers is simply funny to listen to, particularly at a healthy distance from the place. It should count itself lucky that Germany takes it under its wing, as should the other dysfunctional post-imperial screw-up, France.

        • EnglandLaments

          You call it “sweaty nationalism”, I call it self defence.

          • Terry Field

            Yes, you would. The neurosis of the external threat, so important to the mental architecture of the tinpot nationalist. Can’t achieve in normal life, so dream remedial dreams.

          • E.I.Cronin

            Agreed. Even a portion of the billions squandered on immigration, aid and bureacracy could be used to educate and skill our own populations. And rebuild our manufacturing industries.

  • Frank

    Love the title’s “could” – the migrant crisis will get very much worse. The solution may be to let Russia take out Erdogan!

    • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

      Errrm,,,,, You think it a good idea to destabilise a population of eighty million adjacent to Europe’s most feeble and incorrigible member, Greece?

      As an aside it is just one more situation which makes me wonder at the utter stupidity of the expansion at all costs movement among the EU politicos around the millennium. Complete idiots! Criminally negligent and arrogant buffoons.

      • Frank

        Well, we can either go to war to protect Erdogan from his own stupidity, or let him cope on his own. Since NAO has already warned him that it will not assist him in his current stand-off with Russia, the outcome could be as I described.

  • Thomas Katz

    “How the migrant crisis could get much worse”

    It will get worse and worse until we have a “British Spring”. You hardly hear of anyone now who doesn’t have a poor opinion of immigrants, all it needs is a hot summer, a downturn maybe, and a piece of tinder, (something like Rotherham again perhaps) then hopefully there will be an “uprising” against the Liberal Elite that are determined to destroy every value this Country ever had.

    OK, so I dream, but it’s a good one!

    • Hybird

      The West Yorkshire Police say that Halifax will dwarf Rotherham when the enquiry is finished. But Rotherham didn’t cause a political earthquake and neither will Halifax – unless someone (that means UKIP) actually take off the kid gloves for once.

      • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

        I think this crime is EVERYWHERE, but too many places aren’t looking. The police and political classes are still where Rotherham was around 2003.

    • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

      Something like Rotherham you say? I assert that there is a Rotherham in EVERY town that has a substantial population of Pakistani men in it. Soon to come a huge trial in Newcastle as the Operation Sanctuary comes to a close. Already charged with Rotherham type offences, 29 Muslim men and two women. If your town hasn’t had a ‘Rotherham’ trial yet, you either have no Pakistani criminals in it, or you just aren’t looking under the stones. I’ waiting for the political forces in London to allow the Met to start looking. It will be massive there, but all I hear from the politicos and police is talk about ‘communities’ and the importance of cohesion…… Watch this space.

  • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

    Turkey is not any kind of a reliable partner, but more like a piratical brigand that an unwise EU tries to recruit to perform some kind of dodgy service on its behalf. It will turn on us as soon as it suits. Apart from extracting money, the next and most important thing that Turkey wants and impulsive short termist Mrs Merkle is unilaterally offering, is visa free travel to the EU and eventual access to the EU gravy train. We grant this at our peril. There are almost eighty million Turks in that huge and decidedly non-European country. No one thinks that 80 million Turks will come here, but several millions will do – be sure of it.

  • derek

    In the last 25 years the population of Africa has doubled to just over 1 billion, by 2050 it is estimated to reach 1.5 billion. If 1% of these people come north we are in trouble, if 5% come north. Man the barricades.

    • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

      Since their fertility is so much higher than ours (five children average per African woman) we had better be concerned long before five percent get on the move. To be fair, African migrants tend to integrate and contribute more. Middle East migrants are much more problematic and are far more likely to sit on benefits. A very large proportion of Bangladeshi and Pakistani migrant women never work and claim benefits. this is a lifestyle choice on their part and that of their governing husbands as they like them to stay at home and not interact with the Kuffar.

      • Hybird

        “To be fair, African migrants tend to integrate and contribute more.”

        African Muslims don’t. Somalis for instance.

        • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

          No – you are right, I was thinking of sub-Saharan Africans. Thanks for the correction.

  • John Smith

    Erdogan is a major threat to world peace. Turkey should be expelled from NATO.

  • Maureen Fisher

    Let’s put it very simply: they’ve f@cked up their own countries and now they’re coming to do the same to yours.

  • https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/home Dean Jackson

    “How the migrant crisis could get much worse”

    Have you noticed the Marxist dialectical talking point in referring to the MIGRANT crisis? That’s because ‘migrant’ let’s the Marxist co-opted West off the hook in causing the crisis. Refugees flee persecution and chaos, while migrants travel for better economic opportunities. The term refugee reminds us that it is the Marxist co-opted West causing the chaos throughout the globe, which is in-line with the Marxist strategy of ‘convergence’, where a discredited West will be maneuvered into a new union with Russia, a union ‘From the Atlantic to Vladivostok’…

    “Russia is an inalienable and organic part of Greater Europe and European civilization. Our citizens think of themselves as Europeans. We are by no means indifferent to developments in united Europe.

    That is why Russia proposes moving toward the creation of a common economic and human space from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean – a community referred by Russian experts to as “the Union of Europe,” which will strengthen Russia’s potential and position in its economic pivot toward the “new Asia.” – Vladimir Putin (2012).

    https://www.rt.com/politics/official-word/putin-russia-changing-world-263/

    …and…

    “Editor’s Note: The phrases ‘From the Atlantic to the Urals’, ‘From the Atlantic to Vladivostok’ and ‘From Vancouver to Vladivostok’ are interchangeable in the strategists’ lexicon. In the course of his Nobel Peace Prize Lecture, delivered in Oslo in June 1992, Gorbachev said: ‘Our [sic] vision of the European space from the Atlantic to the Urals is not that of a closed system. Since it includes the Soviet Union [sic], which reaches to the shores of the Pacific, it goes beyond nominal geographical boundaries’. Note that Gorbachev, who had been out of office for six months, referred to the Soviet Union, not Russia. In an interview on Moscow Television on 19 November 1991, Eduard Shevardnadze continued speaking as though he was still Soviet Foreign Minister: ‘I think that the idea of a Common European Home, the building of a united Europe, and I would like to underline today, of great Europe, the building of Great Europe, great, united Europe, from the Atlantic to the Urals, from the Atlantic to Vladivostok, including all our territory, most probably a European-Asian space, this project is inevitable. I am sure that we will come to building a united military space as well. To say more precisely: we will build a united Europe, whose security will be based on the principles of collective security. Precisely, collective security’. These statements by key implementers of the strategy reflect the central strategic objective of asserting ‘irreversible’ Russian/Soviet hegemony over Eurasia, thus establishing the primary geographical component of the intended World Government.” — ‘The Perestroika Deception’, by KGB defector Major Anatoliy Golitsyn.

    https://ia800305.us.archive.org/27/items/AnatoliyGolitsyn/Golitsyn-ThePerestroikaDeception-TheWorldsSlideTowardsTheSecondOctoberRevolution1995.pdf

  • Tom Cullem

    Why would Frau Merkel have a “Plan B”? Who stopped her from implementing Plan A? Her poll ratings are already beginning to recover slightly.
    It is up to the rest of Europe to say NO. Let Germany have them all.

    • Hamburger

      Say it quietly, she does not have a plan A.

  • Mongo

    ‘ there won’t just be the body of one dead boy on a beach but 10 to 15 thousand’

    And the Eurocrats actually want a man who talks like that in their club?

    • Alex

      Whereas Iain Duncan Smith of the Brexit club actually has the record to back it up

      • Mongo

        IDS has said something comparable?

        • Alex

          Done something comparable.

          • Mongo

            he drowned 15000 kids? What a monster!

  • E.I.Cronin

    Again and again I’m struck at how Western leaders with immense resources, responsibility and power are earnest, (excuse the pun) angelic imbeciles. No wonder Islamic leaders are running rings around us. For a glimpse at her total disconnection from reality check out the interview. Follow Rules! Integration! Keep Europe together!

    http://www.dw.com/en/merkel-i-have-no-plan-b-on-migrant-crisis-strategy/a-19081119

    I suspect she actually believes the kitsch. Could be wrong… maybe she’s thinking ”Mein Gott vat zee ***** haff I done!!”.

  • Donafugata

    It is better that we know this now. Erdogan just confirms what many of us have suspected for a long time.

    The news comes too late to help Germany, Merkel won’t be moved but this might help any undecided British to vote Brexit.

  • Suzy61

    As someone else has already said, Merkel has no plan A, never mind a Plan B.

    Ah, Turkey, holding Europe to ransom….and the answer proffered is to allow them to join the club!

  • In2minds

    “how hard it will be to get a functional EU Turkey deal” –

    Hard? No impossible Erdogan cannot be trusted.

  • GoJebus

    No matter how bad it gets, no matter how ratcheted up the propaganda gets from the BBC and Channel 4, and Angela Merkel, and Medicins Sans Frontiers and our yellow politicians, and our crop of hair-shirted multiculture-promoting liberals who are the central villains in this story, we have to prevent the mass entry of Muslims into this country.

    A sizeable contingent of home-grown European Muslims are threatening to tear their host countries apart due to their overt and covert trampling of our core value of free speech, their support for and complicity in the murder of cartoonists and authors (together with our media and politicians), the fear they generate via their fatwas and beheadings, and through the transmission of their cultural cancers of FGM, the sanctioning of death for apostates and for blasphemy, anti-semitism, misogyny, and homophobia – and that is before we consider their disdain for beer, art, history, music, poetry bacon, dogs, goldfish and hamsters.

    Our politicians in their ivory towers may deny it but Islam is cultural cyanide. We should shout it down and deride its horrible beliefs at every available opportunity. We certainly shouldn’t risk strengthening it’s hand by letting its adherents flock here in their tens of thousands from its backward heartlands.

    • Tom Cullem

      Well, once that IN vote is secured, the EU is set to expand the guidelines on free movement of workers, and in half a dozen years or so, those one million Muslims that Germany took in will have their EU visas and be fanning out across other EU countries, and there won’t be a damn thing you can do to stop it.

      Just watch as the Germans re-elect Merkel and our dear countrymen fall for the blandishments of Cameron, Goldman Sachs, the CBI, the City, etc., and vote to stay IN because they haven’t got the imagination or spine to vote OUT.

      • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

        Most of them will come here to England as soon as they get EU travel documents – be sure of it. A large number of them speak English already. WE MUST GET OUT OF THE EU or we will be over run.

        By the way – I said they will come to England deliberately. They don’t by and large want to go to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. Past experience shows where the vast majority of them settle.

        • Terry Field

          No, the EU will permanently close the Schengen deal. They will suffer as we do if they do not. In practice, they will seal the northern borders of Greece, and that country will become overwhelmed. The same with Italy. Both will be sealed from the north and west.

          • Malcolm Stevas

            Looks increasingly likely. Now we hear Gjorge Ivanov of Macedonia saying just that: if countries to the north such as Austria limit migrant entry, Macedonia and its neighbours must inevitably do likewise otherwise they will have resident hordes of migrants that make the Calais “Jungle” look minuscule.

            • Terry Field

              Indeed; This feels like the collapse of civilisation in the late third century and early fourth in the Western Empire. Our civilisation is beginning to collapse; Europe is more intimately connected to the impoverishing world. It will feel it first and worst.
              Greece will be overwhelmed. Italy will be overwhelmed. Maybe southern France. Hundreds of millions will attempt to break in over the next fifty years. Any young person who does not leave Europe and the UK for the US if they are able to do so is little short of insane.
              Trump is correct about migration, and is equally correct about the dreadful trade deals that impose the super-impoverishment of ‘free trade’ on a port of the world that can now gain no benefit from it.

              • Malcolm Stevas

                All the more important that European leaders show some grit and take a robust attitude to (largely) economic migrants trying to blag their way in. It’s perfectly do-able, just requires the political will – and that means swapping our spineless political leaders for others with backbone & balls.

                • Dr. Heath

                  Yes. Trump’s message about the utter, fecking uselessness of America’s political class resonates across Europe, with its own menagerie of supine, utterly fecking useless politicians, just as much as it does in the States. Poorer EU states will build fences and deploy troops because they have no choice. The UK, whose voters will probably have been convinced by the date of the referendum that they’ll all be sacked if their nation leaves the EU, could normally count on the English Channel to save it from the fate of Germany. The UK’s tragedy is that most of our politicians would not only build a land bridge to the continent if they could but that they have no concerns whatsoever as to the ultimate consequences of a population surge in the next generation of another twenty or so million people.

              • Michael H Kenyon

                This will certainly call the bluff of the PC twerps and SJWs.

          • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

            Well Greece is certainly being sealed off and a good job too. What worries me Terry is that Merkle is completely unrepentant about starting the million person walk from Greece to Germany with all of the misery and exploitation it entails for the walkers and the later problems in European life by trying to absorb a large population of largely incompatible Muslim people.

            • Robbydot1

              Wholly incompatible.

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        • AndrewMelville

          As a Scot I am very concerned about my nearest and dearest neighbours. England has been badly served by the British government these last 40 years or so.

          • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

            Do you mean in connection with pandering to the EU? If so, I agree with you. The United Kingdom is one of the few EU nations with a solid history of avoiding military dictatorship, communism and fascism. The effrontery of being dictated to by politicians from more than a dozen EU states which in my lifetime have been fascist, communist and military dictatorships is extremely annoying. Since 1951 when I was born, the following have been either fascist or military dictatorships:

            Spain, Portugal, Greece.

            These have been communist dictatorships:

            GDR, Czec Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia.

            We are about to take in a bunch of Balkan states such as Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia – again all communist in the last few decades AND of course Turkey – barely democratic right now.

            And politicians from these places DARE Andrew to lecture us about human rights and the rule of law? It is an outrage and an affront to common decency. Fe ck ’em, I say

            • AndrewMelville

              Exactly so. They are inferior political cultures and the dare to lecture us. Worse we are supine enough not just to listen to them, but to forget our own history and harken to their silly claims.

              • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

                Good to meet you Andrew. Well said.

      • Frank

        One million? More likely 5 million!

        • Terry Field

          One hundred million over the next fifty years.

      • 2trueblue

        You omitted to mention lack of intelligence.

    • Dennis McScumbag

      Anyone who voices the opinion that they don’t want to become a minority in their own country, not just for their own security but for the sake of human diversity in race/culture is considered extreme. The Muslim attack on ‘our core value of free speech’ is welcomed by the LibLabCon.
      They know what is at stake if people en masse start questioning the benefits of their own displacement, which seems to be increasingly the case.

    • #toryscum

      ooof, great post

    • AndrewMelville

      Don’t forget their smelly persons and foods.

      • GoJebus

        That post has the look and feel of a racist slur and I am concerned that you’ve chosen to link it to my post.

  • Social Justice Warrior

    #refugeeswelcome!

    Merkel is an inspiration. The greatest female leader in history

    • FrankS2

      LoL (as they say the internet)!

      • SalmondFishing

        I bet she’ll get the Nobel Prize one day, unlike the Cameronman.

        • Ridcully

          Big deal, given how tarnished that particular bauble has become.

    • GoJebus

      #downwithfreespeech!

    • SalmondFishing

      You’re not fooling me, Rod.

    • Tom Cullem

      Yes, just ask the women of Cologne, Stuttgart, Malmo, Stockholm, Helsinki . . . and more recently, Kieler, where three young girls were harassed by a mob of Afghan men, who also attacked the police when they arrived.

      I just know that the women of Sweden, which recently admitted to covering up the rate of sexual assault among immigrant men for years, are particularly fond of Mrs Merkel.

      As Social Justice Warriors the world over have demonstrated time and again, local labour issues and women’s safety and peace of mind always take a back seat to multi-kulti fantasies.

      That’s why the FN, the DPP, the Sweden Democrats, and the True Finn party are doing so well.

      • Alex

        Notice you have dropped UKIP from that list 🙂

    • King Zog

      #howmanyrefugeeswelcome?

      Why bring up the fact that she’s a woman? That’s not very Social Justice Warriorlike of you.

  • Bonkim

    No brainer!

  • winger.steve

    There is apparently plenty of empty land in the north of England in a part they call Scotland where these people could be housed; they say they want them to come ther

    • Social Justice Warrior

      all parts of the UK should welcome more refugees. There’s lots of room near me – several empty fields which more houses could be built

    • Sandra Barwick

      Think you mean ‘to the north of England’. Very important distinction.

    • Hybird

      There’s plenty of empty land in Turkey. Thousands of abandoned villages which have remained uninhabited since the Turks ethnically cleansed them of Greeks and Armenians.

  • Dominic Stockford

    t the same time as Merkel grandstands and refuses to back down (lose face) it is being leaked that Germany will close their borders because they cannot cope. How much longer before she is dumped?

    • Tom Cullem

      I disagree – all she has done is support a tightened up asylum package that was passed last week. And Morocco announced today that it would take back 10,000 of its citizens who slipped in with the migrants last year. That’s it.

      Germany can’t close its borders without finishing off Schengen, and she will never do that. And her poll ratings are already recovering slightly.

      If Germany keeps voting for her, Germany deserves everything it gets.

  • sebastian2

    Erdogan is after money and EU membership. His threat is the more potent if not actually carried out but used, instead, to extract Danegeld from a vacillating Brussels. It’s a kind of extortion. Of course, if the cost of keeping migrants in Turkey becomes too expensive because a cash strapped Europe won’t fork out, he will shove the liability onto the EU ridding himself of the drain on his own resources. The economics will oblige it. That’s when the numbers will really soar. So the EU will pay whatever Turkey demands. Much better than hundreds of thousand of migrants to be accommodated and provided for over years – decades. The EU will pay, at least until the money dries up – which it will.

    That, however, is only part of it since no matter how much money Turkey wrings from us, the country still couldn’t cope. The problem is too big and too complex. It embraces, in any case, more than just Turkey for there are those migrants already in Greece and those heading for Greece across the Med. The scale of the total and comprehensive mess and its ramifications is hard to describe in ordinary language. They’re coming in from all over. Many want to enter the UK.

    As for Britain, we can no longer entertain utopian fantasies. This is all bad news that leaves no space for enjoying self delusion about the seriousness of it. We cannot absorb these numbers. We have to close the borders.

  • thomasaikenhead

    The Sunni Erdogan and his cronies have made massive fortunes buying cheap oil from IS and then selling it at a higher price on the world market.

    He now seeks to replace this source of income by blackmailing the EU.

    Article likes this make clear that only if Brexit takes place can the UK regain sovereignty and with it control over its borders.

    David Cameron must have watched the riots in Calais and the Macedonian border as the illegal immigrants vent their frustration at being thwarted by resorting to violence in an attempt to bludgeon their way to their chosen destinations.

    Little wonder that the German politician, Frauke Petry, who suggested that these illegal invaders should be shot at the border has seen her popularity soar?

  • Ron Todd

    Remind me again why does Cameron want us to stay in the EU?

    • Johnnydub

      Becuase he’s a lackey of the establishment, and they want strong nations torn apart by immigration so they can get away with more activity to screw us over.

    • sebastian2

      I think he’s been “promised” a top job with status, lots of dosh and a pension to match.

    • Tom Cullem

      Goldman Sachs wants it. The City wans it. The CBI wants it. TTIP wants it. America wants it.
      What you and I want is of absolutely no moment whatsoever.

  • Charlie Anderson

    What worries me is not so much Mrs. Merkel’s lack of a plan B, but the fact that nobody appears to have any plans whatsoever.

    I find this surprising because conflict in the region is not a new phenomena – it’s been going on for centuries, if not millennia. I found this interesting interactive map that lets you zoom in to anywhere in the world and see the border changes during just the 20th Century ( http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/themes/maps-interactive/maps-in-time.htm ) which gives you an idea about just how volatile the region is.

  • Uusikaupunki

    I wonder if the little child who was beheaded in Moscow will get anything like the sympathy expressed for the muslim kid shown drowned on a Turkish beach?

    • Johnnydub

      A question to which (very sadly) the answer is no.

    • sebastian2

      Excellent point.

    • Alex

      They are not comparable a priori. One was brutally murdered, the other died in a tragic accident. Accordingly, most of the public reaction to the beheaded kid has been apoplectic rage at the beheader as opposed to hand-wringing and sympathy. It’s rather harder to be angry with the sea, doubly as it can’t deliberately kill a child and triply as it can’t do it in the service of some ideology.

      • E.I.Cronin

        That’s disingenuous to say the least. The sea, as you well know, had very little to do with it. Abdullah Kurdi was not recognised by the UNHCR as a refugee because he had work and accommodation in Istanbul and was even able to return to Kobane before IS attacked again. An aunt paid thousands of pounds (the amount varies) for a illegal people smuggling operation with faulty life jackets – money that could have sustained them in Turkey. The grandfather begged them not to go.

        We should have been furious in both cases. Instead we saw candlelit vigils and orgiastic pleas to collapse all borders. Refugee advocates have shown they regard jihad, rape, ethnic crime and endless social conflict an acceptable loss for the perceived benefits of *cultural diversity*. So why wouldn’t they stoop to politicising a child’s death?

        • Alex

          Irrelevant. The beheaded child was murdered, Aylan Kurdi’s death was by misadventure. Hence the latter is more of a “tragedy” while in the former emotion is focused against the killer rather than on the victim.

          • E.I.Cronin

            Kurdi was killed by the actions of his father and the people smuggling trade. It’s like putting a child in a faulty car with no seatbelt and a drunk driver then blaming the road. The human traffic industry is a corrupt, illegal trade caused by weak, stupid social policy.

            • Alex

              No, it’s not the same. The parent is only liable for a child who doesn’t wear a seatbelt because the law explicitly says they are. Not knowing the circumstances we cannot ascertain whether Aylan’s death was caused by parental negligence meeting a relevant legal test or whether it was due to events that were impossible to foresee or mitigate.

          • E.I.Cronin

            Snort. So you’re telling me it’s impossible to foresee what could happen putting a 4 year old out to sea on an overcrowded, inadequate vessel, with faulty or non existent safety equipment and on an illegal mission? Snort.

            His death was tragic and his father, along with the traffickers and the governments who allowed the trade to resume, bear responsibility. It’s the harsh, painful truth.

            Merkel bears responsibility for every rape, sexual assault and crime committed by MENA migrants in Germany.

            • Alex

              I’m glad you’re not a lawyer

              • E.I.Cronin

                Thank you!. I may not be fluent in bogus Human Rights legalese but most ordinary people can spot devious moral equivalence and BS when they read it.

                • Alex

                  Yeah … justice based on feels and narrative is so much better

  • Lady Magdalene

    Basically, Erdogan is demanding money with menaces.

    This is the Turkey they want in the EU, with 75 million Turks given the right to move to western Europe.

    Best vote LEAVE whilst we still can.

    • Hybird

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Erdogan and his gangster family are making an absolute fortune out of the supply of rubber dinghies, outboard motors and life-jackets. Come to think about it, all he’d need to do to stop the invasion is restrict the sale of these items.

      • Johnnydub

        The Erdogan family were certainly making a fortune of the oil ISIS was exporting, till the Russians blitzed the tanker convoys – the same convoys the Yanks have ignored for the last couple of years…

      • Alex

        Meanwhile, I wonder how much Boris made shorting the pound last weekend.

    • SalmondFishing

      Why pretend you were stupid? Three million Turks live in Germany already.

    • Alex

      Fear! Fear!

      Why would they cross the entire continent just to get to rainy, stingy, xenophobic Britain? They would go to Germany, where apart from anything else there is already a large Turkish community – even while they are outside the EU.

      • Mongo

        actually Britain is probably the least stingy, least xenophobic country in Europe which is exactly why we have more than half a million new arrivals every year, and why thousands are shacking up in miserable tent cities in Calais just for the chance to get to our ‘promised land’

        • Alex

          It’s categorically not, especially in terms of the stinginess: our benefits are far lower and far more difficult to get than in other European countries with similar sized economies (notably France). The only draw for immigrants to come here is the English language, which is widely spoken, and tabloid tales of Cameron’s “jobs miracle” which are as lurid as they are untrue. I might give you the NHS if they are sick, but you’ll have to do a few contortions to explain how they can have survived a perilous journey over sea and land if they are that sick.

          The people wanting to come over from Calais have been there for nearly twenty years, so they have nothing to do with the immigrant crisis, and at any rate there are so few of them they would struggle to fill the stands at Dover Athletic.

          • Mongo

            he was asking about what would happen if Turkey joined and their citizens had an open door to Europe.

            Since literally millions of Eastern Europeans jumped at the chance to move en masse to the UK once they joined, it’s not unreasoanble to assume that millions of Turks will do the same if they get the chance

            • Alex

              About 1,950,000 EU nationals from all countries have moved to the UK since 2004, balanced by 840,000 outflows. Until 2010 about 15% of these were from 2004 acceding member states. Since 2010, and since 2012 with the addition of workers from the 2007 acceding member states, this has risen to 35%. So your statement that “millions” have moved to the UK is patently incorrect.

              Early inflows of EU nationals from the 2004 acceding member states were no doubt inflated by the fact that Britain, alongside only Ireland and Sweden, elected to waive its entitlement to delay the freedom of movement of workers from these countries for a maximum of seven years.

              So with post-2004 EU migration it would appear that the British Blair government, not any “Eurocrat” or “EU diktat”, is at fault for any supposedly overwhelming immigration, with its gung-ho, race-to-the-bottom, “capitalisme anglo-saxon” desire to import cheap labour. The EU and its Continental members, however, were far more sensible.

              The British government had learnt its lesson by 2007, when it applied the waiver in full in respect of Bulgaria and Romania, leading to Farage’s infamous prophesy that we would be inundated “en masse” with “millions” of Romanians and Bulgarians as of New Year 2014.

              • red2black

                Of course figures can be challenged, but it’s good to see some far more precise ones presented, rather than the usual ‘millions’, along with the usual Politburo stuff. It’s worrying when people sound so much like their supposed enemies.

          • red2black

            You mean there’s a shortage of football fans as well as doctors and nurses?
            (arf arf)

          • Hamburger

            If France is so good, why don’t they want to stay there?

            • red2black
              • Hamburger

                That does not answer my question.

                • red2black

                  You haven’t had time to read it in the time since I posted it.
                  I haven’t posted it for ‘political’ reasons, and you may find answers

                • Hamburger

                  Alex suggested that conditions for migrants are far better in France which begged my question. Your link could not answer is either, “This being the real world, there is no easy answer to the question “why?” “.
                  By the way I can read very fast.

                • red2black

                  Ask the migrants?

                • Hamburger

                  I guess the ones here don’t want to go to the UK!

                • red2black

                  I’m in Merrie England.

            • Alex

              They do, which is why there are only a few thousand at Calais and why asylum applications in the UK (note, for all asylum seekers not just Syrians/Eritreans/Libyans etc) are so much lower than France, Italy etc.

          • Gilbert White

            Absolutely sure the English Language is widely spoken in England or do you pigeon english by illegal chancers?

            • Alex

              Widely spoken as a second language throughout the world, I meant, making a country where everyone speaks English attractive.

              No, I don’t “pigeon English”, seems like you *speak *pidgin English though.

  • Conway

    And if Erdogan carries out his threats, which is unlikely but not impossible, the migrant crisis will enter a new and even more dangerous phase.” Why would he not carry out his threats? This should really swing the vote to LEAVE!

  • Guido’s fault

    I can already hear the hard left continental whiners beg us to finally open our borders.

  • sidor

    Turkey and frau Merkel successfully perform evacuation of the ISIS jihadists defeated in Syria and Iraq to Europe. It reminds massive evacuation of the former SS to the Latin America in 1945.

  • Hybird

    Dhimmis must pay jizya to Muslims…or else. That’s the age old deal. And Merkel is a willing dhimmi.

  • Graeme S

    Shocking piece of blackmail….bloody Turks pulling out all the stops

    • In2minds

      Shocked, why, have you been to Turkey?

      • Caviar luvvie

        I have been, which makes me glad, because i shall never go again.
        Not giving money to a country that buys ISIS oil.

  • Earlshill

    I have no doubt Erdogan will carry out his threat, and soon, since his ISIS friends appear to be getting squeezed between Syrian/Russian and Iraqui/Iranian assaults. If the French and Egyptians carry through on their planned assault on ISIS in Libya in April then just watch as Erdogan goes for broke.

    • SalmondFishing

      The Kurds, not unlike the Scots, have little final say in matters that concern their nation.

      • teigitur

        There was a referendum. Did you not notice?

        • Numpty McTumshie

          Scots voted the ‘wrong’ way therefore there has to be some conspiracy behind the result. Innit.

          • SalmondFishing

            Why be deliberately obtuse? This piece is not about Scotland.

            • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

              Scots were brought in by a comment above. Numpty and I have commented on that.

            • Robbydot1

              You brought the Scots into it!

              • SalmondFishing

                I din’t – I merely compared the two in response to the scenario the KURDS are now facing.

            • logdon

              You started it,

        • Gilbert White

          A referendum so close as to be irrelevant?

          • teigitur

            It was not that close.

      • Dominic Stockford

        The Kurds are not the goodies. No-one in this mess is.

        • telemachus

          ‘Cept Putin

          • SunnyD

            goodness me! I find myself somewhat agreeing with you

          • Robbydot1

            Good God, Tele, you’ve said something sensible!

          • logdon

            Where’s the smelling salts when you need them?

      • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

        Neither the Scots nor the Kurds have a nation. They may have had some sort of tribal kingdom hundreds of years ago, but they have been long since subsumed into modern states which will not fragment into scrappy little fiefdoms of a few million souls, scrabbling about and trying to control petty economies and squabbling among one another in petty wars. The Scots Nats need to get the reality of what the referendum meant eighteen months ago THEY LOST. MOST SCOTS DID NOT AND DO NOT WANT INDEPENDENCE FROM THE UK. SHUT UP ALREADY AND GET RID OF YOUR RESENTMENT. YOU ARE PART OF THE UK AND WILL ALWAYS BE. GET USED TO IT.

        • Malcolm Stevas

          That isn’t necessarily either fair or correct: national self-determination is a fundamental freedom and if sufficient Scots want independence IMV they should have it. In any case, Scottish independence would provide welcome relief from SNP whingeing and N.Sturgeon’s canny meddling in English affairs…

          • Terry Field

            The shifting sands of nationhood simply reflect the desires of the moment, and need to be heeded to avoid bloodshed. The real issue, however, is the overpopulation, degradation of resource supply, climate desertification and civilisation collapse, in whatever passes for ‘nations’ in future.

            • Rhoda Klapp

              Bit 70s Club of Rome isn’t it? Any of their predictions come true yet? Or maybe you prefer false prophet Paul Ehrlich?

              • Terry Field

                I see your point; but no, I think climate change is unarguable -except by the stupid or politically bigoted, and the overpopulation of the southern and eastern Med is so obvious only an effort of will and myopia would miss it.

          • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

            Well it’s true, but I do feel the Scots are being constantly manipulated by the grievance scratching politics of the SNP. I blame Blair for this. The SNP were a ridiculous rump until Blair launched the break up of the UK by giving them a ridiculous and expensive parliament to use as an independence soap box. Until then, the whole of Scotland was run by about five ministers and was the better for it.

            • Malcolm Stevas

              True enough, but I suspect we differ in our attitudes to that “break up of the UK”! It might prove challenging, but ultimately I’m happy that England could not only undergo it successfully but benefit as well.

              • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

                Yes, I agree England does not NEED five million Scots, but I don’t see successful nations fragmenting into puny little left wing fiefdoms for grievance scratching wretches like Salmond as a good way forward. Besides, the numbers of Scots who voted for exit from the UK last year were tiny – only 1.6 million of mostly hard left, urban Scots.

                • Malcolm Stevas

                  Well, that might prove a little controversial… That “tiny pressure group” garnered 56 Parliamentary seats through the eccentric, skewed workings of our FPTP system. If we’re not going to shake up the voting system so that it reflects the democratic wishes of voters, then independence for Scotland seems called for, otherwise we’re in hock to those 5 million or so. If subsequently they find they’ve turned themselves into a “puny left wing fiefdom” it’s their lookout.

    • telemachus

      You misunderstand Erdogan
      He wants good friendship with Europe to allow accession of his country
      Friends with IS
      You could not be more wrong
      He is terrified they might destabilise his country
      Yours is another blog aimed at Islam in general

      • Hybird

        Erdogan is a devout Muslim. The Koran repeatedly forbids Muslims from being friends with non-believers – on pain of hell-fire.

        • telemachus

          Muslims still know on which side their bread is buttered

          • Hybird

            Yes, they do – but they can never be trusted. Erdogan is quite obviously operating a protection racket. “Nice continent you’ve got there, Europe. Shame if anything should happen to it.”

            • telemachus

              Is that not what you would do

              • Hybird

                No. I’m not a gangster or a would-be Caliph.

                • telemachus

                  We are all the same
                  We are all out for us and ours
                  The right exclusively
                  The left with caring left for the disadvantaged
                  So with Muslims
                  We have IS the bad
                  And Erdogan the good

                • Hybird

                  “Erdogan the good.”

                  You are really quite insane. You know that, don’t you?

                • telemachus

                  He rules and keeps in check disparate and potentially warring groups

                • Hybird

                  And journalists…

                • telemachus

                  As in Christian Russia

                • Sid Falco

                  Do you never get tired writing the same garbage day after day ? You should be locked up.

                • logdon

                  Have you been to Bradford recently?

          • sebastian2

            I agree. Today, this side. Tomorrow, that side.

            • telemachus

              Wrong
              Like you and me they are after a fast buck

              • Hybird

                What else can you expect when their role model “prophet” was a robber and slave trader.

                • telemachus

                  And no mean conqueror of peoples

                • Hybird

                  Torturer, rapist, wife-beater, mass murderer…and abuser of at least one little girl. A man of many talents. You’d obviously have to be quite mad or totally brainwashed to think he was the “Perfect Man” – which doesn’t say much for Muslims, does it?

                • telemachus

                  A post worthy of the naive Charlie Hebdo

                • Hybird

                  The truth bothers you?

                • telemachus

                  If I stand in front of Mr Gove and say “you are ugly”
                  Would that be sensible

                • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

                  He would be very polite. He always is exquisitely polite. Your mention of Charlie Hebdo reminds us that Muslims are not at all like Mr Gove and that they have within their ranks a great many savage and unpredictable Islamaloons who will cut off your head as soon as look at you. I don’t pretend that all Muslims are like this – that would be a falsehood, but a great many Muslims as evinced by reliable surveys claim a sympathy with the violent ways of these radical types.

                  It is not an illusion that Muslims feature at three times the expected number in our prisons and occupy about seventy percent of the negative news on our night time TV. They are disproportionately violent, murderous and seek in disproportionate numbers to impose their backward nonsense on other people by violence. This is no surprise, as the ‘perfect man’ Mohammed did exactly that and is lauded by them, as a hero for doing so.

                • Hugh

                  It would just be rude. If Gove shot you in response, would that be reasonable or justifiable in any sense whatsoever? Should we say, ‘It’s terrible Gove shot him, but he did say he was ugly and perhaps we should have been more sympathetic to Gove’s complaints about idiot left-wingers.’

                  Your inabilty to distinguish qualitatively between prejudice views and deadly assault is truly impressive.

                • GoJebus

                  You are complicit in their murder if that thought is what squats in your brain.

                • Hamburger

                  The great waves of conquest came after his death.

                • logdon

                  Maybe we should try it again. Is that somehow different?

              • fred finger

                Speak for yourself, you Labour sellout.

                • telemachus

                  We are all human beings
                  With foibles
                  And talents
                  The mistake folks make is that Muslims are different

              • sebastian2

                You should lower your hemline. Your prejudices are showing.

                • telemachus

                  Human nature is human nature
                  Folks have got scared unnecessarily of Muslims
                  Like us there are good and bad
                  They have their ISIS
                  We have our Ku Klux Klan and successors

                • Hybird

                  The ideology that ISIS follow is exactly the same as mainstream Sunni Islam. No Sunni Muslim can condemn the things that ISIS do – because they are following the instructions in the Koran and the example of Mohammad. There is not one Muslim who will say that Allah got it wrong when he sanctioned crucifixion and lopping off hands and feet. Not one.

                • telemachus

                  You are naive in the extreme
                  The ideology of the Ku Klux Klan is the same Gospels that motivates the Pope

                • Hybird

                  The KKK have been responsible for how many deaths this century?
                  “There’s a straw man waiting in the sky…”

                • telemachus

                  ..Director of the Jim Crow Museum at Ferris State University, the actions of ISIS and other extremist groups are familiar — no better, no worse than the historic stateside violence against African-Americans. ‘There’s nothing you’re going to see today that’s not going to have already occurred in the U.S.,’ he said. ‘If you think of these groups that behead now — first of all, beheading is barbaric but it’s no more or less barbaric than some of the lynchings that occurred in the U.S.’”

                • Hybird

                  “that occurred.” Past tense.

                  No Muslim would admit that beheading is barbaric, by the way – because that would be blasphemy.

                • telemachus

                  I have many Muslim friends who are appalled at the beheadings and use just that word
                  Barbaric

                • Hybird

                  You have no Muslim friends. You have Muslim acquaintances who would never, ever describe you as a friend when they are down at the mosque. They know that Allah will punish them with everlasting torture if they have non-Muslim friends.

                  Now, when you next meet these so-called Islamic “friends” of yours, please ask them to condemn as barbarism the massacre (by beheading) of the menfolk of the Banu Qurayza tribe by their “prophet.” I guarantee that they will not do this. And you know they won’t. They will attempt to justify it – and also the enslavement of the tribe’s women and children.

                  It appears that you actually enjoy having the wool pulled over your eyes. Wake up!

                • Germainecousin

                  Truthfully, do not bother even replying to the troll. he needs to sit down and give his mouth a chance to speak.

                • sebastian2

                  With great respect, I advise you never to enter Hampton Court Maze. With the directions your thoughts take you in, you’d never find your way out.

                  I invite you to consider why Saudi Arabia (Sunni wahabbist) hasn’t attacked IS (Sunni wahabbist/salafist) but gleefully bombs Yemen rebels. One neighbour is spared; the other isn’t. If IS breaches the qur’an and hadiths, then surely KSA as the custodian of the two holy mosques, should take firm action to bring IS down and restore the true behaviour. It would be their qur’anic duty to do so. Why don’t they?

                • telemachus

                  With greater respect we were addressing the question why, not why not
                  Further Saudi are on the cusp of sending ground troops to aid in the final taking of Raqqa

                • sebastian2

                  Why not, why not?

                  As for the Saudis, you may not have had the golden opportunity of seeing their ground troops in action except perhaps against Shia civilians in Bahrain, on TV. If you knew the military discipline, command structure, co-operation, organisation and provisioning required for a ground offensive and if you knew the Saudi forces’ organisational capabilities, you would pause for thought. Add that to the grim prospect of fighting Sunni IS (who the Sauds may well be sneaking funds to), thus “supporting” Shia/Secular Assad, you’d pause a bit more. And if you can imagine the possible Sunni jihadist/extremist backlash in KSA itself as Saudi troops engage (unlikely, but imagine anyway), you will enjoy a very long pause for thought indeed.

                  TE Lawrence described the Arabs as “a people of starts”. Things have hardly changed. They are permanently on the cusp.

                • Sandra Barwick

                  That’s why he wears white – it’s sympathy.

                • logdon

                  The latest one, Red Francis?

                • Caviar luvvie

                  Muslims aren’t human though.
                  They gas humans, their own, and they eat their own: just like cockroaches do.

                • telemachus

                  Do not generalise from the n a z I s of the religion

                • Hamburger

                  I agree apart from the attitude of almost all Muslims, including liberal Muslims, towards the Jews.

        • Frank

          He also appears to be running a deeply corrupt regime which locks up all opponents on trumped up charges of treason and has been flogging oil for IS – wonder whose pocket gets that money? Turkey should be booted out of NATO.

          • red2black

            Turkey’s a leading market for our arms industry. A bit dodgy booting them out after we’ve tooled them up?

            • Frank

              It builds F16s under license.

      • vieuxceps2

        Tele,give Erdogan my regards when you meet him again,won’t you.
        PS Why have Turkey in Europe? Have we not already enough muzliims here?

        • telemachus

          Christendom and all that?

          • vieuxceps2

            Dar al-Islam? Is that your choice?

      • E.I.Cronin

        Angela…?? is that you?

      • Hamburger

        He has been pretty relaxed about ISIS setting up shop in Turkey.

      • logdon

        Democracy is like a tram ride. You get to where you are going, then you get off.

        Islam is Islam. There is no moderate Islam.

        I quote your hero.

      • 1Juvenis1

        Not true but even if it would be Islam deserves to be aimed at . religion of hate , death and obscurantism . Get out of Europe , you are not liked and not wanted !

        • telemachus

          And when the alternative for these poor folk is death?

      • Dr. Heath

        From what language did you calque the equivalent of ‘wants good friendship with Europe to allow accession of his country’?

        Earlshill’s words constitute a comment, not a blog.

        I despise Islam and find its holy book to be a form of hate literature mixed with looney drivel. Anyone who is still able to give voice to such comments in countries where the police are not yet arresting and criminalising people for holding this and similar opinions [i.e. Not Denmark] understands why T*rdowan is a nasty tyrant whom we need to treat as the implacable enemy of civilisation.

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