Coffee House

Did Donald Trump go too far against Jeb Bush last night? Probably not

14 February 2016

10:46 AM

14 February 2016

10:46 AM

If Jeb Bush is to have any chance of winning the Republican nomination in 2016, he needs a ‘media moment’. He needs an exchange of arguments or insults with Donald J. Trump in which he indisputably comes out on top.

If you listen to Team Bush’s boosters, that moment happened last night. But they would say that.

Trump and Bush clashed fiercely over foreign policy and the legacy of Jeb’s brother, George W. Bush. And the crowd booed Trump. Trump said that the Bush II administration had lied over Iraq. ‘They said there were weapons of mass destruction,’ he said. ‘There were none and they knew there were none. There were no weapons of mass destruction.’

This prompted boos from the audience and an emotional response from Jeb Bush, who said: ‘When Donald Trump was building a reality TV show, my brother was building the security apparatus that kept us safe.’

[Alt-Text]


Bush also said: ‘I am sick and tired of him going after my family … He has had the gall to go after my mother … My mom is the strongest woman I know.’

‘She should be running,’ Trump snapped back.

Trump is better at being rude than Bush. Yet it might have been an error for him to insult the Bush family and diss the war on terror ahead of the South Carolina primary. Dubya, the 43rd president, remains surprisingly popular in the Palmetto state. There are eight military bases in South Carolina, so adopting the less hawkish line is risky.

Trump also turned on the audience, repeatedly calling them lobbyists. This may have made him sound a bit deranged. But he did the same thing in last Saturday’s TV debate, then triumphed three days later in New Hampshire.

South Carolina senator Lindsey Graham, who after dropping out of the presidential race in December has not only endorsed Jeb but become his lead spokesman, was adamant that Trump had gone too far. He said after the debate that Trump ‘went to a level of nut job we haven’t seen before.’ Graham called himself ‘the happiest man in South Carolina’.

Yet while people like Graham see a tactical mistake, most people sitting at home see a famous man shouting truths at a group of lying politicians and lobbyists. And they like it.

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Show comments
  • http://petervu.ca Peter Vu

    Check out this app and find out if even you could be a better businessman than presidential candidate Donald Trump:

    http://areyoubetterthantrump.com

  • OnDemandBay

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  • Payne by name

    To be honest, Trump was right about Iraq wasn’t he? There were no weapons of mass destruction.

  • AlexanderGalt

    Trump is brash and nasty and this is popular because lots of ordinary Republicans are angry with the endless retreat of their leaders from the fight. That said, if Trump gets elected his supporters are in for a sad surprise. Trump is very much a status quo Republican and will be just as much of a sell-out as Bush et al. Cruz is the only real conservative in with a chance and thanks to Hillary’s weakness it is a real chance. Good piece on why liberal bias is actually helping Republicans this time because they’ve foisted an unelectable candidate on the Dems at: http://john-moloney.blogspot.com/2016/02/thank-liberal-media-bias-for-hillary.html

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Game Over, Jeb.

  • paulus

    You cannot be too harsh, Freddie when your analyzing utter disaster and defeat any sentient human being can follow the irreversible logic of what has gone wrong. Within a generation of taking over, they have totally thrown away an unassailable position. A line must be drawn under it..With deftness and swiftness we can retrieve the situation, but they have blotted their copy book and must fall into line.

  • Sean L

    I’ve never heard him speak directly but whenever he’s quoted Trump seems to be either telling the truth or proposing tangible solutions, like building a wall to keep out unwanted immigrants. Alhough we can’t keep them out even with a sea.

    • Mike Johnson

      Your politicians are who negate the sea as a barrier to immigration

      • Sean L

        You’ve got them sussed, man.

  • rotekz

    The boos and cheers were fake. https://youtu.be/M2g8DmIVL1I

  • jeremy Morfey

    I find myself in a surreal place thinking that the Pig with the Wig might be offering a better solution to the world’s troubles than anyone else.

    I was listening this morning on ‘Thought for the Day’ that it is always wise to be able to understand alien cultures if one is going to broker world peace. In this context, it was understanding how contemptuous Russians are for the weak lily-livered, who are not prepared to go into a project whole-heartedly, and for them this means to the death and total destruction if needs be. Both presidential Bushes entered into wars they were not prepared to see through to their conclusions.

    The first Gulf War never actually removed Saddam Hussein, nor his capacity to wreak carnage. The Shia Marsh Arabs were promised military backup for their revolt, but were then betrayed by Bush senior, slaughtered, and the draining of the marshes led to a major ecological catastrophe in the region.

    Dubbya’s ‘War on Terror’ falsely linked the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon as resulting from his father’s unfinished business, when it was actually renegade Saudi wahhabi fanatics, led by a black sheep from one of his closest business friends’ family. The ‘Shock and Awe’ destruction of Baghdad was entered into with enough gusto, but was not followed through with a proper invasion with enough power to enforce pax americana.

    This is what the Russians are complaining about. If you must enter a war, for goodness sake do it properly and leave no stone standing and no enemy breathing, and Europe can take the fleeing civilian collateral.

    What is happening now bears quite a resemblance to 1980, when the Soviet Union (of all people) invaded Afghanistan, but failed to sort out the Mujahideen (the forerunners of today’s Islamists) who, with Western backing, managed to drive out the Soviet invaders and set up the the Taliban.

    At the time, there was a presidential race in America. In the blue corner stood one of the most decent and honourable men ever to have graced the White House, and even now in his dotage is dedicating his life to eradicating a particularly nasty parasite in Africa. At the end of his presidency, in despair, he started talking about a ‘limited nuclear war’ in Europe. My father dug a nuclear shelter in the garden, since the alternative offered up by Whitehall was to hide under the kitchen table for protection.

    In the red corner was a cynical right-wing Hollywood cowboy notorious for shouting his mouth off about evil empires and his willingness to shoot down from space any threat to America. He put the fear of God into anyone who thought it any possibility that this creature of flaky brain would ever have his finger on the big red button. While he was never a good man, he was someone the Russians could respect as being whole-hearted, and under him the Cold War drew to a close.

    • ArchiePonsonby

      The man in the “red corner” ensured that the U.S. hostages in Teheran were released as he was being sworn in, after threatening death and destruction to the mullahs, all whilst the man in the “blue corner” dithered for a year and a half! Force or the threat thereof is still the overwhelming factor behind any diplomatic manouevres and that was a lesson which Obama singularly failed to appreciate with his farcical “foreign policy reset”!

  • Frank

    Senator Lindsey Graham comes across as a very odd fish.

    • ArchiePonsonby

      None odder in a very crowded field!

  • Diego Fink Belingieri

    How ironic that Trump is hurt when actually telling the TRUTH. That’s what you get when you want delirious warmonger’s votes I guess.

  • Tino Tinel

    Changes are to come regardless Trump tells what it is, and what Jeb fell saved by his brother, most of us see , was a lie to bust his agenda and steel riches for a clan and with that fear and scared people he enrich himself and thinks as a broather He can do the same,,.

  • Gilbert White

    Bushwhacked?

  • Mark
  • Moderndayslave

    Graham should relish his days on the gravy train. They are over . The people of this country are f’n pissed and it’s not at Trump :))

  • MathMan

    Let’s not forget that Jeb fiddled the (Hanging chads) election in Florida in 2000 to give his brother the Presidency over Al Gore.

    • anyfool

      Not quite, it turned out the military vote was what swung it for Bush, that was before he and Blair changed the Rules of Engagement during the Afghan War, precipitating the high casualty rates.

  • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

    Whenever I see Trump, I’m put in mind of Mussolini. The likeness is quite astonishing; both megalomaniacs and they even look like each other.

    http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/is-donald-trump-reborn-mussolini.html

    • Pioneer

      Self confidence is an essential requirement of a President. Trump wants to be President of the US, not of the World. He is the very opposite of Mussolini.

      The current US administration is using fascist techniques, as you can’t have failed to notice.

      • WFC

        Or, as Mark Steyn put it: he’s the one who sounds as if he wants to the President of the USA, not President of Davos.

    • The Masked Marvel

      Not really, no.

    • serialluncher

      Look at the youtube clips of his rallies. Populist defiance, pursing lips, stick out jaw. March on Washington. Mussolini had better hair though.

    • edithgrove

      I’ve heard him compared to Hitler and Mussolini but I think he is rather the quintessential upper east side b**ch, funny, faux shocking and the limo waits outside. If you haven’t anything nice to say about anyone, come sit by me.

      • serialluncher

        Mussolini was more peacockish and probably would have found Trump a bit vulgar. They have similar traits still and similar campaigning style but Mussolini was much more violent (so far) – eg. got expelled from school for stabbing someone. And Trump doesn’t really qualify as a fascist (so far).

      • ArchiePonsonby

        Not THE Dorothy Parker, surely?

    • FF42

      The difference is that Mussolini had beliefs, even if they weren’t beliefs you and I would subscribe to. Donald Trump doesn’t believe in anything at all except Donald Trump.

  • Pioneer

    “most people sitting at home see a famous man shouting truths at a group of lying politicians and lobbyists. And they like it.”

    Yes, that seems to be the case. The GOP stacks the audience with establishment supporters. GOP incompetence or dirty tricks?

    Bush: ‘My mom is the strongest woman I know.’
    ‘She should be running,’ Trump snapped back.

    Excellent.

  • Seniors Penname

    Trump’s complaint of a voter high-jacking in IOWA, by Ted Cruz, was vindicated by his New Hampshire landslide victory results and all voters will remember this. If numbers mean anything, TRUMP is the real deal and votes know this to be true. Rather than mocking and attacking TRUMP his colleagues would do well to line up behind him to secure a place in the next presidential cabinet.

    The wrong minded disgruntled elitist establishment, and their special interest groups, will try everything to stop TRUMP. Their votes have no more value than any other votes. Forget these naysayers. Their desperate pathetic dying efforts are as hollow as they are. Mocking Trump is their Achilles heel. Attack ads against TRUMP will backfire because voters already sense their fears. Their BS will fail them. They are responsible for bankrupting America at home and politically abroad. They are incapable of hearing the voter’s needs. Clinton vs Sanders debates are like watching paint dry. Politicians and their heir apparent attitudes are doomed to failure. They are now obsolete. They just don’t get it. TRUMP is the only viable solution to America’s domestic and international disasters.

    The first amendment exists to protect the freedom of the press and every American. When the media and the press censures comments they themselves are violating the first amendment

    On November the 9th they will come to know this to be true. It’s time to say goodbye to the old boys club. Disgruntled voters, of every party affiliation, are always the true and only catalyst for positive changes. We definitely need to clean house. Vote for change; Vote to make America great again.

  • hepworth

    the author mocks Trump for stating that the audience are “lobbyists”. He obviously hasn’t watched Question Time.

    • Torybushhug

      VS automatons such as Leanne Wood and Nicola Sturgeon are past masters at eliciting guaranteed bovine QT audience applause on the back of banal platitudes.

      I can predict every time the audience is about to applaud. All one needs to say is something as puerile as ‘I passionately believe in fairness for all’, or ‘I for one know the majority of immigrants want to contribute’ (oh yea, that’s why so many open cash business’ such as takeaways and taxi firms, they cant wait to contribute those taxes……… – 24% of Pakistannis are on benefits but in my long business experience they work in cash on the side and are often Landlords – they advertise their properties as ‘all bills included’ because this enables them to collect rents in cash and pretend they live in the property so as not to have the tax man notice)

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Jen Bush needs to explain why he signed a Martial Law Executive Order four days before 9/11. Telepathic or fore knowledge? I lean towards the latter.

  • Malcolm Stevas

    Is this an extension of that story the other day about the “Superbowl” sporting contest, or something else? It sounds quite similar.

  • The Masked Marvel

    I thought there was another political party in the US who were also having these contests. Has that been cancelled or doesn’t it matter?

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      Yes, we don’t hear much about it but apparently there is no contest like the GOP are having. The Dems are only two that anyone hears about: a favoured but flawed shoo-in candidate and a Corbynesque joke candidate designed to stumble along making it appear like a contest….

      • The Masked Marvel

        The fact that it’s any contest at all should be a story. It seems that Hillary came out ahead in Iowa only because of a few magical coin tosses, and lost New Hampshire but will come out ahead in the delegate count because of the rigged Dem system. Nothing to see here, move along, eh? The email scandal, the Goldman Sachs problem, older women vs younger women, all a non-story for the bubble-dwellers. It’s getting old hearing about every tedious nuance of the Republican contest but FA about the race where one contestant has been subpoenaed and is facing an FBI investigation. Yawn, apparently. It’s as bad as the BBC.

  • Ingmar Blessing

    “She should be running” LOL..

    Imagine hat in office! C-Span ratings would go through the roof.

    I admid, that snap increased my sympathy for Trump.

  • Skyeward

    I liked Trump going into the belly of the beast, truth-telling on Iraq and making a pro-social security statement. He might not have been applauded by the county party members filling the seats but he’s in touch with two nearly universally-supported themes – we’re sick of wars and paying for them, we want social security strengthened and maintained. Of course he’s too bombastic and vague to be President but he’s certainly shaking up the race.

  • Sid Falco

    GWB was a terrible president – run and hid on 9/11 then got manipulated into invading Iraq. No reason why he should get a free pass.

  • victor67

    The Bush family with their links to the oil industry embarked on a ME policy to enrich themselves and their associates. It certainly did not keep America safe.

    • anyfool

      In Blair he had the perfect accomplice, looking at how much Blair has enriched himself, you have to imagine the senior partner made staggering amounts.
      Hillary Clinton is on the same mission, but jail is likely to beckon, the Clinton Foundation itself is under investigation, if she fails to win the Presidency, Bill and her daughter could be fellow cell mates.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        We can but hope.

  • anyfool

    Bush like Blair is popular with fewer and fewer people, Jeb his brother, the one originally groomed for the Presidency is not doing well, he has it all, the perfect political demeanour, the perfect political history, the perfect bedside type manner, the perfect empty shell to carry it off, who would not despise this man

    • Enoch Powell

      No one would despise him.

      They can’t remember him long enough to despise him.

  • https://plus.google.com/u/0/ Wendy Davis

    Bush seems apologetic.

  • WFC

    Trump’s disparaging references to Bush’s family – intended to provoke Bush into defending them – have a clear objective. Namely, to remind the audience that the US Presidency is not a hereditary institution, and ask them whether they really want three members of the same family in the White House in 25 years.

    • eat your greens

      Leftards even suggesting that Jeb run in primaries is an indicator of the fact that most leftard US politicos really have thoroughly lost all sense of what democracy actually is. They are not unlike totalitarian communists.

      • Skyeward

        Such strange notions the British hold of America. Homeland Security began under G.W. I’d hardly call him a lefty and everybody across the spectrum knows it’s just been a money grab – Bush and his wars and security apparatus ran up the deficit tremendously. Today’s progressive politics has been much informed by Bob La Follette, the fiery Wisconsin Senator and Governor AND a Republican. Left v. Right is a tired old way of viewing the country. We should all be focusing on whether the neo-liberal consensus is benefiting the majority of Americans. Small c’s and Big P’s both say no.

        • telemachus

          We should all be focusing on whether the neo-liberal consensus is benefiting the majority of Americans
          *

          • MaxSceptic

            Perhaps the Islamist nutters know that any such atrocity would generate a response by a President Trump that would not, in legal parlance, be ‘proportional’

            Had this course of action been taken in 2001 the dust would have settled by now and remaining would be praying in the direction of a mile wide crater.

            • telemachus

              What you actually mean is you wish Bush had created 10 more Iraq situations and brought the Syria debacle forward 10 years
              *
              Whichever way you look at it the Islamophobic rhetoric of Trump is spaggravating a serious situation

              • Pioneer

                Not clear what the relationship is between US 9/11 and Iraq.

                • telemachus

                  So 9/11 led directly to Afghanistan
                  That gave Bush a taste for Crusades

          • Pioneer

            The US 9/11 perpetrators were able to mark the anniversary of the original 9/11 because of the lack of security.Flaws in the visa program allowed the hijackers to gain entry to and remain in the U.S. to carry out the attacks.

            • Skyeward

              Source. Or do you personally get your daily briefing from the FBI. Although if you add in homegrown crazies, I might believe that.

            • Mary Ann

              And Trump telling all Muslims that they are not to be trusted will help recruitment.

              • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

                Telling the CofE that they are the product of an insane king’s desire to exert megalomaniac power over is kingdom and his lust for a girl brought up at the French Court does not cause choir boy bombs or curates to plan suicide missions or beheadings. Neither does disparaging the Pope encourage nuns and monks to run amok.

                You really do need to account for why it is that the religion of peace contains so many of this kind of dangerous propensity. I recommend a kind of typical allergy treatment approach. You take the irritant and regularly apply it to the sufferer until they become insensitive to it.

                Here’s my first treatment for them ->

                Mohammad was just a bad man who manipulated a lot of sixth century Arabians and then forced people to do what he wanted at the point of a sword.

              • Pioneer

                Bringing in hundreds of thousands of muslims will hinder recruitment?

            • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

              Don’t forget that the CIA and the FBI DEPEND for their finance and status on keeping everyone focused on how REALLY important they are. This means that whatever they say, you can’t believe them. Always remember that both of them and MI6 allowed it to be believed that Saddam Hussein had nuclear and biological weapons that could be turn ed on the west at forty-five minutes notice. Extensive searching after a catastrophic war discovered no nuclear and no chemical weapons at all. The CIA has publicaly announced that fact.

          • Skyeward

            Well, except many Americans know Muslims from north Africa, the Balkans, Asia-Pacific and yes, some from the Middle East and who now live in Chicago, Michigan, Charlotte, Spokane, and Nashville, etc. and they’re by and large just regular Americans. It’s about tweaking our screening and rules. Getting Americans to understand what neo-liberalism does to them and who is to blame is the bigger challenge right now. Too many vote slavishly for those bought and paid for by big banks, big pharma, big ag, big oil, and of course the Kochs.

            • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

              When ever people start writing sentences containing lists of ‘big’ this and ‘big’ that and attaching the named ‘big’ entity to a conspiracy of some sort, you know a) that they are American and b) that they are pretty much a hill-billy with a banjo, no teeth, an interest in s0d0my, and a murderous intent. You people can’t hide from us. We’ve seen Deliverance and we know who you are.

              • ciorans smile

                You sure got a pretty mouth Arthur.

              • Skyeward

                Wow – that is a pretty crude remark. I’m an MBA at a Fortune 100 and likely live a life outside your experience and comprehension. So I’ll lay it out nice and slow for you. You see we use quite a few common linguistic shortcuts in America to refer to all sorts of things and in this case “big” banks refer to the largest 3-4 banks categorized as too big to fail. When I string all those industries together I’m referring to their lobbying clout (5 financial lobbyists for each member of congress), taxpayer subsidies the big players each receive in various forms (which start-up’s, small businesses and mid-sized companies mostly do not), and their abilities to bend and shape regulatory policy using cadres of legal counsel. Every American knows what Big Pharma means since it’s a common use term across the media, politics and culture. How is it you don’t? Are you a bit out of touch across the Atlantic? And as for bad teeth, isn’t that more of a British thing? Some of your actors and public figures… gross.

                • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

                  Did you major in ‘Tediousness’ in your MBA?

                • Skyeward

                  Nope. And thankfully I was too disciplined to wallow in ignorance. I pity you.

                • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

                  That’s really hurtful…… Bwahhahahahahaha

                • Skyeward

                  Of course it wasn’t. Apparently you deserve pity on many levels. I don’t know what the options for adult learning are in your country but you really should look into further education.

                • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

                  I’m delighting in your disdain. Please feel free to keep pitying me. I laugh heartily that you convey these feelings to me. :))

                • Skyeward

                  Because you aren’t conveying anything whatsoever, eh?

                • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

                  :))

          • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

            Did Enoch Powell’s disparaging remarks about black men create terrorism? People making disparaging remarks about ethnic groups or races, or religions does not create anything unless a group of people are over-sensitive and violent enough to respond in that way. If you make disparaging remarks about the Cof E, you don’t get a bunch of choir boys going out in their spooky surpluses and beheading people. There needs to be that kind of cultural propensity. Muslims have that…. Not many do the beheading and exploding I will grant you, but a lot more openly sympathise with it – still not a majority, but enough to mark them out as a dangerously disloyal lot and a bunch of folk we’d have been better having nothing to do with at all in terms of having them come and live among us. If ten percent of them admit to being sympathetic to DAESH, and one percent might turn nasty on us, we should never have allowed any of them to come here. If one percent of airline pilots wanted and planned to end their days flying an airliner into a mountain. none of us would ever get on a plane. If ten percent of them said they could understand why the one percent would do that, we’d be in really deep sh | t.

      • Mary Ann

        There is no reason why this Bush shouldn’t run if he wants to the job is open to all Americans, to stop him because of his family is discrimination, actually I wouldn’t be surprised if he is handicapped by his name.

        • Pioneer

          I get the impression he doesn’t really want to run, he is just doing it because it is expected of him. He isn’t very enthusiastic.His policies are catastrophic.

    • Ambientereal

      Trump knows, that to be successful you have to be “different”. So he is very far away from the political correctness and engaged with truth. Yes, the truth that no one will admit, the truth that must be recognized before the problems it poses could be solved.

      • Mary Ann

        Trump will just create more problems, you cannot have a loose cannon ball in the most important job in the world.

        • Ambientereal

          Trump´s job is at first recognize the problem, and he is doing quite well. If he wins, then he will have to propose reasonable solutions so that the congress admit them.

  • Ralph

    Bush has always given me the impression he doesn’t really want to run but is doing so because it is expected of him.

    • James Chilton

      Filial duty or piety.

      • Wessex Man

        or maybe they are all just mad as March Hares.

  • Rosenbaum’s Tinted Spectacles

    Donald Trump has one job to do and one job only: annihilate the gunslinging Bush clan of posing cowboys lead by a hockey gran.

    • Ivan Ewan

      Or he could just bluff and bluster and insult the audience like last time.

    • telemachus

      And if he radicalises a few more Muslims as he does it
      No problem
      They will blow up a few nobody’s in a State where he will not be Sean dead after the election

      • Mary Ann

        And he can say “I told you so.”

      • The Masked Marvel

        A few more Muslims will be radicalised by Trump only if people like you keep telling them they’re right to be.

        • telemachus

          Look
          There are many Muslims who grow up thinking that the UK or USA are OK
          They are progressing thru the education system
          Then they come across folk like Tommy Robinson
          But that probably would be ignored
          Until a National Figure slams them and tells them to go home
          To where?
          They were born in the UK/USA
          So they kick
          And find crazies like Abu Hamsa who play on their young minds
          *
          Then 9/11
          Then 7/7
          *
          Trump already has blood on his hands

          • Harryagain

            We need to be deporting the “crazies”.
            Or executing them.
            They will not go away.
            They get radicalised in the local mosques.

            If anyone has blood on their hands, its Bush and Bliar.
            Who got rid of the man that stood between us and the “crazies”,
            ie Saddam Hussein, who was our friend.
            As is Assad.

            • telemachus

              I cannot disagree with that and like Ken and Jeremy want to see Blair in The Hague
              *
              That is not the issue here
              The issue is to stop Trump inducing the conditions for a new 9/11

              • Hugh

                Tele 2 days ago: “If he [Blair] and Bush had not gone in Iraq would be like Syria by now.”
                Tele 3 hours ago: “I want to see Blair in the Hague.”

                Time for your meds.

              • Harryagain

                The “crazies” would commit a new 9-11 tomorrow if they could.
                Regardless of who is in power.

          • The Masked Marvel

            Utter garbage. They are radicalised by videos, chat rooms, social media, their community leaders, and people like you telling them they’re right to feel that way. Tommy Robinson is a symptom, not a cause.

            • telemachus

              It is the community environment of feeling of hatred fuelled by Trump and his ilk that increases the fodder for your radicalisers

              • anyfool

                They are radicalised from birth, the mothers feed them bile at the breast, when they can talk, the father fills them with hatred of others, usually whites but white women in particular.
                They have hated for 1600 years, nothing we have done has changed that.

                • telemachus

                  Sadly not
                  Some perfectly normal kids
                  Who play with our kids at school
                  And go to camp with them
                  Are driven into the hands of the radicalisers in their teens
                  And those with a screw loose
                  End up as Jihadi John

                • gatorbait51

                  You mean dead?

                • Wessex Man

                  hopefully

                • Pioneer

                  Do people who wind up like JJ have something in common?

                • starfish

                  E J Thribb

                • Hayekian

                  and why doesn’t that happen to our kids? It sounds like a dose of flu or a cold, presumably could happen to anyone. Is there a missing factor between their kids and our kids we aren’t considering here?

                • Mary Ann

                  You have obviously never breast fed a baby. I suspect you are judging others by your own standards.

                • Mr B J Mann

                  And neither have you:

                  The poor thing would choke on the bitter, curdled bile!

                • Alex

                  That’s a disgusting thing to say to a woman

                • Mr B J Mann

                  Yup, it was harsh, but true.

                  She’s a bitter, curdled bile filled woman who says disgusting, bitter, curdled bile filled things to people she disagrees with.

                • Alex

                  And you’re not, of course…

                • Mr B J Mann

                  Well, I’m a bloke for a start!

                  You should have gone to ~O^O……::::::::savers!!!

              • Wessex Man

                You are a tosspot tele babe, when their preachers of hate living on handouts here celebrate beheadings while eating their breakfast at midday and laugh at the taking of un-believers deaths, there always a useful idiot like you to sing their praises.

              • The Masked Marvel

                The only hatred fuelled by Trump is yours, and that of your kind. In your previous comment you brought up 9/11 and 7/7 as examples of events prompted by this ‘radicalisation’. You are either lying just so you have words to put in the little comment box, or you are seriously intellectually deficient. There was no Trump or Tommy Robinson (as public figures on this issue) then, so it’s impossible for them to have had any effect whatsoever. There was no EDL, there were no Daily Mail rants, nothing at all like what you point to now with your bony digital finger of blame. It simply didn’t exist at the time.
                Your pet Islamic monsters inspired themselves, encouraged by the BBC and people like you telling them to get outraged. There is more blood on your hands than on Trump’s or Robinson’s. And you wonder why people here find you sickening.

          • Hugh

            Which national figure was it who was responsible for 9/11 and 7/7, then? I think we should be told.

            • Mary Ann

              We could start with those who carved up the Middle East after WW1 with no respect for the traditions of those who lived there, it would have helped if they had drawn in a Kurdistan, it might have helped also if they hadn’t decided to to ship the descendants of Jewish immigrants into Palestine and kick people out of their homes to set up a Jewish state………

              Bible, Galations VI (King James Version): Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

              • Hugh

                So not Donald Trump after all. Good to know.

                If only they’d thought of the impact on Bradford teaching assistants and Saudi engineers 100 years on I”m sure they would have put in Kurdistan, so don’t be too hard on them.

                “The one who sins is the one who will die.
                The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent
                share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be
                credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged
                against them” Ezekiel 18:20.

              • Wessex Man

                Strange that Mary Ann the middle East rose up in WW1 as our allies to get rid of the Turkish Empire who regularly carried out extermination of ethnic groups.

            • Harryagain

              The one who instigated the arming of the muhadjadeen in Afghanistan.
              Regan was it?

          • Mary Ann

            I agree up to the last sentence, although if he carries on telling Muslims that they are dangerous people he will help those to wish to turn them against the rest of the human race, give a dog a bad name, tell them they are different to others, not to be trusted. I wish Trump would keep his mouth shut.

            Mind you, when it comes to the Mexicans, I wonder how he is planning to force Mexico to build a wall all along the border and why don’t most Americans realise that he is mad.

            • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

              he said Mexico would pay, not that they’d build it. And if it’s built, they’ll pay. same as we pay for Spanish roads etc.

            • Pioneer

              He is going to build the wall. Mexico will pay for it. Not difficult to understand.

              Obama’s deliberate weakening of the borders to attack America has been very successful. In addititon to the enormous welfare cost, loss of jobs due to undercutting by illegal workers ( they don’t declare it of course, so it supplements their welfare), there is a great deal of violent crime perpetrated by immigrants against Americans. Mexican drug gangs have penetrated deep into America.

              Interesting how Obama uses the media:

              “If I had a son”, his promotion of the Michael Brown myth, “worplace violence”, etc. Yet he remains silent about anything that doesn’t fit his anti-American narrative:the murder of Kate Steinle, the appalling black on black killings,etc.

          • Voltara Smith

            So their psyches are so feeble that the opinion of a single person is enough to tip them over the edge to murder and violence? Then maybe Trump is right and it would be better if they were all closely vetted

            • telemachus

              Opinion of a single person
              No
              A man who moulds the attitudes of a population
              Hitler did it before Kristallnacht

              • Harryagain

                No, dimwit.
                The population is fed up of being lied to.
                Trump just states the blindingly obvious.

              • Wessex Man

                and Jezza managed to gather onto himself all the loonytune lefties who had no political direction until Jezza said unto them ” come join me the job’s not finished yet, we have to destroy the Labour party entirely.”

              • Fraziel

                You are obviously not aware of the view that anyone who has to use Hitler or resorts to using the nazis to make an argument has already lost the argument or simply doesnt have one.

                • telemachus

                  I mention your hero from time to time to confound Mike Godwin

            • Harryagain

              Or utterly destroyed.
              It’s them or us.

          • Hayekian

            but aren’t their white kids progressing through the education system who see a figure like Abu Hamza, or Anjem Choudry who can probably be ignored until they find out that an epidemic of pedophilia has been suppressed because of fears over racial tensions by the UK establishment. They see their free speech limited and crimes against them given more lenient sentences than those against others purely on the basis of skin color and religion. They see people who fight to protect them here and abroad derided and murdered in the street. They want to go somewhere where this can’t happen anymore but to where, they were born here. So they kick….
            Then bacon on the doors of a mosque, then quoting Churchill on the steps of the Winchester guildhall and … nothing.
            The true enablers of radicalization are people like you who legitimize these people’s warped belief systems and sense of entitlement.

          • Fraziel

            Tommy Robinson should be given a medal. One of the few people prepared to stand up to offensive, outrageous behaviour by radical extremist Islamists in his home town and whose side do you take? Yup, the extremist radical islamists. You should be ashamed.

      • Adam Carter

        If Islam is a religion of peace then why aren’t muslims who have been radicalised more peaceful than those who haven’t been?

        • telemachus

          You know this
          The radicals are akin to the Ku Klux Klan division of the Southern Baptist Church
          *
          Just as the racist agenda of these Southern Baptists not Christian so the terrorists are not pursuing true Islam

          • cmflynn

            Are you a Muslim Telemachus? It always puzzles me that non Muslims can say with complete certainty who are the true interpreters of Islam and who are the benighted heretics. If a Muslim, for instance started to proclaim that one set of Christians were ‘not pursuing true’ Christianity we would laugh and say, ‘How could you know?’

            • telemachus

              I know
              I know

              • polidorisghost

                Come on give it up, you’re a busted flush, everyone knows who you are – little Nick the pr boy.
                Why don’t you publish your accounts Nick so we can see your retainers – Phoar! look at the size of those!

                • flipkipper

                  Well, blandingsnumpt, everyone knows you’ve on no retainer. For some it’s not even the London living wage.

                • Wessex Man

                  Ha ha the gang’s all here with their usual gibberish!

                • flipkipper

                  Telewessex, when have you ever had anything to contribute other than the loony kip meme?

                • Wessex Man

                  Ha ha you are a card, when I need to reference thin air, all I have to do is read your inane comments

                • polidorisghost

                  Of course I’m not on a retainer – Retainers are for hired hands.
                  And bennies are for scroungers like you Abdul.

                • flipkipper

                  Stop crying you lefty.

                • polidorisghost

                  ?
                  But you’re the one on bennies Abdul, not me.

                • flipkipper

                  ?
                  Looking for someone to troll in your multiple guises, you ubernumpt? You’ve chosen not so wisely.

                • polidorisghost

                  But it was you that trolled me slackbladder.
                  Multiple guises?
                  Are you a schizophrenic? – Voices in the head, that kind of thing – how exotic – maybe it’s big Al talking to you.
                  Anyway, I have to get on. You enjoy your life as best you can.

                • flipkipper

                  Blandings, why do you think I am calling you blandings, you thick numpt. Are you too thick to look in the mirror and recognise your sorry selves (that’s plural for self).

            • UKSteve

              No, he’s just a tr0ll, called Nikos, with a blog.

              • cmflynn

                But unfortunately he’s not alone. Many politicians, including Cameron love to trot out who is misinterpreting Islam in their opinion, oblivious to how ridiculous it makes them look.

          • gatorbait51

            The Klan was ,and is, the enforcement arm of the Democrat Party. Nothing Democratic about them .

          • Adam Carter

            What terrorist action does not find its justification in the Koran or Hadith?

          • Speedy

            How many mass-murders have the southern baptists carried out lately?

      • Karl W South

        @telemachuss:disqus So your position is that there is a group of Muslims so sensitive and so close to turning into extremists that the comments of Trump will push them over the edge? If that is true then those people were *always* going to become extremists, and were *always* a problem.

        • telemachus

          This is a herd phenomenon
          Trump alienates the uncommitted young
          Then the Abu Hamsas get to work
          *
          Bit like the Branch Davidians and Wako

          • Mary Ann

            Just another nail in the coffin, the straw that broke the camel’s back……

            • Wessex Man

              Aw! sweet, tele babe and Mary Ann together at last! both spouting their usual socialist propaganda that has dragged the world to the brink of destruction.

              • Guilttripjunkie

                Both are Mohammedans and most likely converts. This would explain their fanatical zeal in supporting the RoP.

        • Mary Ann

          It follows being bullied at school, not being able to get a job because of your name,……….the straw.

          • Karl W South

            Do British Hindus face the same problems?

        • Hayekian

          This is the contradiction in the argument of the left that seems never to be probed for its intellectual incoherence by the press. Apparently, these people are just like us and yet on a hair trigger for any perceived slight, they want to live in a pluralistic secular society but they want to have draconian blasphemy laws and religious courts, they value their British identity but still feel more allegiance to their coreligionists abroad, they want to use the rights of protest and free speech to insult and antagonize others but want protection from those who wish to do the same to them, their religion is completely peaceful unless someone criticizes it or draws attention to inconvenient truths about it’s founder.

      • Badger

        Trump doesn’t radicalise muslims, Mohammed does.

        • telemachus

          You must look at the whole picture
          Trump and his ilk deliver more into the hands of Abu Hamsa and his crazies
          And make it more likely that they will act on the message of the crazies

          • Badger

            Trump doesn’t radicalise muslims, Mohammed does.

            • Mary Ann

              How did you get away with putting in the same comment twice?

          • Wessex Man

            I’m just going to guess here tele babe but the next comment of your’s I read will probably contain the word ‘narrative’, all the saddo tired socialist claptrap that really doesn’t answer any queries.

            • Mary Ann

              The point you are missing is that hatred begats hatred, the vicious circle needs to be broken, and Trump saying he will ban all Muslims because he doesn’t trust them is tarring them all with the same brush, and stirring up hate. When you consider the level of gun crime in the US it would make far more sense to at least require a sanity test before selling guns to people.

              • rationality

                It is typical of your consistent misunderstanding that you are so harsh on Trump and his supporters for wanting to ban Muslims yet you give the psychopaths bombing the Middle East (and then saying to the people there ‘come on over to the US’) a free ride. What sort of country destroys one country and then brings its people over to their own despite the host people’s desire wish that they dont want a radicalised, Western hating people who contribute nothing to society?

                You have to be completely deranged to not see an insidious agenda. And frankly I am disgusted at your bigotry and hate towards people like ourselves who are constantly persecuted by morons for being ‘racist’ which is in fact persecution, which you participate in day in, day out. Get the fck off their backs and see the bigger picture.

              • Wessex Man

                I’m not missing the point at all, as far as I’m concerned he belongs in an Institution for the Criminally Insane along with most of the rest of the Presidential candidates.

                The level of Gun crime in the US has been one of their constant idiocies, along with pretending to be the world’s policeman, the bringer of ‘democracy and the giver of the lie about the special relationship that they trot out whenever they want a useful patsy like Blair, Brown or Cameron to make their tea and justify their criminal wars.

                • Wessex Man

                  of course that’s not to say we should adore the murderous scum or to let them into our country.

                • rationality

                  ‘The level of Gun crime in the US has been one of their constant idiocies’

                  Very much a recent development and linked to immigration from non European nations. Just like in our towns and cities violent crime is up for the same reason.

              • Hybird

                It would make far more sense to require a sanity test of Muslims before allowing them into any Western country. Face facts – they all believe that a man who was a mass-murderer, rapist, robber, slave-owner and torturer was the “Perfect Man” and is the ultimate role model. And that is insane.

              • Hayekian

                “we should let potentially dangerous people into our societies because not doing so might antagonize some of them” is a serious argument?
                Religious people subscribe to a set of beliefs and a world view. Unlike politics, this world view is often non-negotiable as “god has determined it to be this way” really ends any discussion.
                We should take people who tell us they are religious at their word and understand that they truly believe in their holy books (however incoherent and nonsensical) and are highly motivated to follow them and change their society to suit them, after all their eternal future depends on it.

              • Fraziel

                A sanity test? Really? Not sure that’s the route anyone should be going down. No criminal record and an explanation as to why you want one should be sufficient.

          • Fraziel

            yep, its everyone elses fault except the terrorists themselves. Typical socialist rubbish allowing people to abdicate responsibility. Nothing any of these fascist animals do in the name of Islam is justified by anything Donald Trump will say or do.

        • Mary Ann

          Mohammed has been dead for a long time, it’s nutters using the religion to have power over others to get their own way, as all religions have done and still do.

          • Badger

            Don’t be foolish, islam is the biggest threat we face today, along with the issue of mass/unlimited immigration.
            A very nasty civil conflict is on the way and we all need to be realistic.
            Make sure you choose the correct side, not the side of the enemy. Don’t be a traitor.

        • mattghg

          This comment deserves a thousand upticks.

      • Cobbett

        Shut up for Odin’s sake.

        • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

          Leave Odin out of it. I’ve just been watching the Vikings. Those boys were bad. The last thing we want is to radicalise those Danes and Swedes and Norwegians. Those boys are big lads. They came here before and took away hundreds of tonnes of silver and they s ha gg ed a lot of our women and left behind a race of Yorkshiremen. We don’t want anymore of that. Far worse than 7/7 by a long mile.

          • Cobbett

            The Swedes and Danes these days are a bunch of feminised losers, so nothing to worry about on that score.

        • Mary Ann

          So you don’t believe in freedom of speech?

          • Mr B J Mann

            Mary Ann -> telemachus

            “I wish Trump would keep his mouth shut.”

          • Cobbett

            What was the subject again?

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