Coffee House

Did we really have to hear all about Crispin Blunt’s sex life?

25 January 2016

3:36 PM

25 January 2016

3:36 PM

A year or so back my friend and colleague Hugo Rifkind wrote a very good piece in which he argued that the issues concerning gay rights should not be resolved simply by an elongated ‘eeeeuw’. In other words, heterosexual distaste at the practices of homosexuals should not determine general policy towards this minority. A good point and well made and I agreed with much of it. But it shouldn’t stop the rest of us going ‘eeeeuw’ from time to time, nonetheless.


So, Crispin Blunt MP feels hurt because laws proscribing amyl nitrate (or ‘poppers’) would criminalise the entire gay community. A jar of poppers and a tube of ‘lube’ are always found in the bedside drawer of a gay man, we are told. I would have thought that the requirement for amyl nitrate to relax the sphincter muscle and lube to accommodate entry was God’s way of telling you that what you’re about to do is unnatural and perverse. Or your body’s way of telling you – your call. So eeeeuw. Amyl nitrate is very bad for you – so ban it. Crispin and others can always use a jemmy instead.

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Show comments
  • Yan

    Absolutely disgusting and unnatural.

  • Paul

    Quite honestly the most offensive part of this article is that the author says “eeeeuw”. It’s a phrase that I mostly associate with teenage American girls.

  • Chrismanchester

    What is the point of the comments section when Discuss take hours to put them up?

  • FrankieThompson

    Is the MP related to the old product advertised profusely a few years ago.

    CrispNDry ?

  • usorthem3

    Just another hate filled homophobic christian who wants all gay people put to death because his “god” says so. The core of christian faith is 2nd chronicles 15 13 just like ISIS.

  • Frank

    Crispin’s children must be so proud of their dad sharing all this.

  • txt_man

    Unnatural? I guess taking aspirin or having heart surgery should be avoided too because they’re unnatural.

  • txt_man

    It’s really gay for “straight” men like Liddle and those here in the comments section to mind about what other guys do with their dicks.

  • Tamerlane

    Ancient Greeks, Persians etc managed to bonk each other senseless in every orifice, male or female, come what may without needing amyl nitrate. I’m sure the nation’s <1% will get by.

    • Paul

      Remember it’s not just homosexuals that partake in this type of intercourse. Therefore, one assumes it’s slightly more than 1%.

  • right1_left1

    I could ony ‘see’ the start of the first paragraph of the Rifkind article which stated that the ‘eeeuw’ factor was not a good reason to oppose gay marriage.
    The logical opposition to gay marriage is that the arrangement is not natural and not consistant with of thecombined meaning of the individual words homosexual and marriage.
    Many will have a moral objection too but in today’s climate judging anything has become an orginal sin.

    Two men copulating should be a private activity unpleasant to consider for many but best left private
    It is not justifed by the the deceit employed by apologists when the word ‘love’ is used.

    I have actually tried poppers.
    Being naive I took a deep whif and far from loosening the sphincter my heart felt as if it was going to explode.
    eeeuw

    adding: i have been toold that many women enjoy receiving some ‘eeeuw’
    From the point of view of birth control Is that a reason to include it in the school curriculum ?

    first an O level and then an A level in sensory experience.

  • edithgrove

    I was moderated for saying this last time but let me try once more. It’s a small miracle that Crispin Blunt or Rod for that matter are getting any action at all, so as a kindness I’d say let’s celebrate that and give them whatever they need to get them through the night. Personally I mourn the loss of discretion in British life but that’s for me to deal with. (language adjusted)

  • Brinley

    Male homosexuality is completely natural if it’s in the form of rubbing and kissing. I recommend it to all men. All men should exploit their inner homosexual desire.

    It might anger women to see men turning to men instead of women, but that’s male superiority for you. I don’t recommend sexual penetration other than traditional penetration designed to form babies, however.

    • edithgrove

      Frottage we used to call it and it was good enough for anyone. Those days are long gone and now it’s more, more, more and inevitably MPs standing up in parliament demanding drugs. As we age its the simpler things we value not a bedside cabinet stuffed with horse relaxants and god knows what.

  • mandelson

    I’m sure his daughter and son go all dewy eyed when they muse on Daddy’s antics.

  • Mc

    “Did we really have to hear all about Crispin Blunt’s s@x life”

    More specifically, Crispin’s enjoyment of having his sphincter relaxed by poppers

  • BobSF_94117

    Not sure about the actual physical effects but talking about poppers sure brings out the stupid in some folks.

  • Tony

    Well said Rod, his daughters must have been mortified.

  • LoveMeIamALiberal

    Quite. One wishes Mr Blunt would put a sock in it (I realise I may be giving him ideas).

  • mandelson

    Unfortunately there is a irresistable urge to destroy our innate sense of decency by the new establishment.

  • Jen The Blue

    Surely just as homosexuals have the right to do what they like with each other, surely I have the right find it disgusting and unnatural?

    • mandelson

      Not if you work in the media, education, social services, mainstream politics, a cake shop, a guest house. More categories being added by the day. We now live in the equivalent of East Germany when you hide your views or talk in code with those you trust and are wary of being denounced and our careers destroyed.

    • Paul

      You have that right, but I can’t see why you feel homosexuals would want to know your opinion on the matter. It’d be rather like me commenting negatively on the colour of your lounge. I wouldn’t express my opinion on it because I’d be certain you wouldn’t care about my view. Yet, for some reason, lots of people seem to think homosexuals are waiting to hear what random strangers think about them. Bizarre.

      • Jen The Blue

        Well no. Unless you have no views whatsoever on morality. The colour of my lounge is not at all a question of morality. ( Light orange on the wall with the chimney breast and the open fire, pale blue on the other three walls. )

        But, if the entire homosexual cohort just wished to get on with their lives without shoving it in our faces, or expecting the rest of us to approve of their lifestyle, or expecting privileges such as being above criticism…..then fine.

        I have no wish to IMPOSE what I believe on anyone…….but on the other hand, I see no reason the law should impose beliefs on me.

  • mickey667

    Rod, have you nothing left to say anymore?

    its weird. You;re in favour of the state telling adults of sound mind what to do in there spare time and with what substances, and Gays = Eeeew.

    I mean, what even is your politics anymore? State intervention, reduction in liberty, Gyas are eeeew.

  • rtj1211

    Perhaps we could hear about yours instead, Mr Liddle?!

  • Ned Costello

    I agree with Rod. Classic Over-share from Blunt which immediately peovoked the Eeeeeuuuw reflex in me.

  • Miss Floribunda Rose

    If you give poppers to a woman as you **** her, her back will arch, her torso writhe, and she will go absolutely out of her mind for approximately 45 seconds. You can get ’em in certain s*x shops in Soho–poppers, that is. How very inappropriate. Please feel free to flag me.

  • TomSatsuma

    FFS what rod have all you straights got up your arses?

    You may be sick of seeing/hearing about all our gay stuff – how do you think WE feel… we’ve quietly heard you lot drone on for decades.

    Stop being such precious princesses and go grumble about the fact that your GP is a woman or that apparently now you have to let black people into your shop.

    • jargee

      Rod could never equal that plot by two gays to get a handful of money out of those two elderly hoteliers down south. They couldn’t have given a toss that the poor guy was going into hospital for a bypass the following day. They needed compensating for not being allowed to sleep together in the Christian hotel!!

      • TomSatsuma

        Um… are you talking to me?

        Or are you just randomly firing arguments and hoping one sticks?

        As for their ‘plot’… did I use the same plot when I was driven out of my home by a homophobic neighbour? When 1 in 5 people on the street say gay people should be in prison you really think it takes a ‘plot’ for some homophobia to make the news?

        • For Whom the Troll Bells

          I sympathise with you if you were the victim of a homophobic neighbour but I am sceptical of your claim that 1 in 5 people on the street say gay people should be in prison. Even 50 or 60 years ago when society was far less tolerant and sympathetic to just about anyone who was different from the norm, I doubt that the figure would have been as high. Please cite the evidence for your statement.

          • TomSatsuma

            I should have clarified that this is in London (21%) – for the country as a whole it’s 16% (still too high). Also these figures are for 2014… It was 24% (almost a quarter) in 2008.

            I don’t blame you for being surprised.

            Figures here: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/sep/28/british-sex-survey-2014-nation-lost-sexual-swagger

            • For Whom the Troll Bells

              Thanks for that clarification. In the interests of accuracy, however, the poll did not say “go to prison” but “illegal” which is not the same thing at all. I wonder if the rather high figure for London has not been skewed by the very large numbers of citizens from religious or cultural backgrounds that a very opposed to homosexuality. I suspect that the figure is not representative of most of the country.

              • TomSatsuma

                As I said, the whole country is 16%.

                You have to admit that’s still shockingly high – and my original point stands… with homophobia this common (And polls aside I know it is common from personal experience) it’s pretty unfair to assume any time it’s made public that it’s a ‘plot’ by gay people.

                After I got driven out of my flat I was turned away from a new place because we are a gay couple. I didn’t go to the news because it’s a normal part of life for us. I’m glad I didn’t for fear of being accused of making it up.

  • Marvin

    The LGBT brigade MUST, just MUST push the barriers of normality and decency to the limits. This is equality running amok.

  • Roland Haines

    I am a very broad minded 69 year old heterosexual man. And I cringe and sicken when the television media treat us to the sight of men kissing each other. I am not a “queer hater” nor do I worry over much about gay marriage, but sweet Jesus this kind of thing just disgusts me. Will the BBC and Guardian forgive me for impregnating women in my younger day and still loving girls?

    • Miss Floribunda Rose

      I find ALL kissing in public nauseating.

    • For Whom the Troll Bells

      I suspect that most heterosexual men of your (and my) generation are intuitively repelled by the sight of men kissing and even more by the thought of what homosexuals do with one another. I don’t know if this is a consequence of nurture or nature but, whatever the case, the feelings are genuinely held and it angers me that it is so gratuitously overriden by media of all kinds. Like you, Roland, I have no animosity towards homosexuals but do object to those who seem determined to confront and challenge me and others wiith their sexual orientation. For most of them, however, I can’t tell them from Adam (or Eve!), neither do I want to – we all have far more in common than not, and I want my social intercourse to be on that basis rather than be dominated by differences.

    • MattM

      Well get a life and get over it. It’s really none of your business. That it upsets you so much when it has no part in your supposed life is telling.

      • Roland Haines

        I have a life thanks, one does not need to be a homosexual to have a life.
        Seeing newsreel of children perishing in Africa is not part of my life, but it still sickens me. So what are you saying exactly, underneath the bluster, I am a raving gayboy? That is the usual homosexual response to those who are not very keen on it.

      • For Whom the Troll Bells

        You have demonstrated exactly the same sort of bigotry, intolerance and insensitivity that homosexuals commonly faced and which have now largely disappeared.

  • Icebow

    Nitrite, Rod.

    • For Whom the Troll Bells

      Quite right. The nitrate is £50, with short-time being 15.

  • statechaos

    It’s a simple case of ‘too much information’…….

  • Count Boso

    When Blunt hit his mid-life crisis, why didn’t he just go out and buy a sports car?

  • Jenny Wren

    So the booze you obviously have to take in to write this guff….that is obviously bad for you, and should be banned?

  • gawonmyson

    As they say in the joke I have no problem with gays as long as it’s not made compulsory but it seems to me be member of the Tory party it may well be as Red Ken said it’s riddled with them.

  • edithgrove

    It’s not so long ago Rod was telling us he’d come in his mother’s handbag. Some of us, the more squeamish amongst us, might have thought eeeeuw but since we’ve pretty much let everything go to the dogs Rod’s handbag story is probably as valid a subject of conversation as Crispin Blunts sphincter muscle. Which is untrue incidentally, about relaxing the sphincter, I think Keith Vaz came up with that explanation after concentrating too hard.

  • DennisHorne

    It’s perfectly normal. Like sticking your dinner up hour nose.

  • Andy Tomlins

    If we stopped everything that we weren’t evolved to do we’ll be heading back to the dark ages. Which I guess the religious nuts like Liddle secretly long for.

    • Mark

      What is the evolutionary value of inserting spermatozoa into non reproductory tracts of the body?

      Is it to naturally extinguish the passage of genetic traits to the next generation?

      • edithgrove

        well it takes all kinds but the particular benefits might be to release frustration, to get a good nights sleep. Many young heteros release it several times a day with barely an orifice in sight so it shouldn’t be too difficult to answer your own question.

  • jim

    Yuk!

  • peter

    I think that the sound is best described as eeeeuch!

  • MikeF

    I think the right term is ‘uugghhh’ though I suppose sometimes it will be ‘oouuuch’.

  • King Kibbutz

    They’re always trying to shoehorn things into the mainstream aren’t they?

    • The Duke of Mendoza

      I can’t help wondering if “shoehorn” was quite the _mot juste_ in the context.
      But tee hee.

      • King Kibbutz

        True as well?

        • The Duke of Mendoza

          Well, fact is, I can’t think of a synonym that doesn’t sound even more painful, or yet more gross. I mean, “slide in by the back door” doesn’t quite, er, come off [see what I mean?] either, does it? And so on. O dear. This is all going terribly downhill.

          • Donafugata

            Better stop digging, Duke.

            • The Duke of Mendoza

              Too right. I have. I’ve already sold the spade on eBay. I shouldn’t be surprised if some buffoon thought that was racist. I give up. Actually no I don’t, but I think I’ve taken this one as far as it will half-decently go.

              • Donafugata

                Selling a spade?
                I thought slavery had been abolished.

                • The Duke of Mendoza

                  Guffaw

          • King Kibbutz

            Hours of fun.

    • Paul

      You seem to forget that those who want to ban amyl nitrate are the ones who have brought this into the mainstream. Blunt wouldn’t have had to offend the sensibilities of middle England had the government just let him get on with his private life in private.

  • Sean L

    If you maim or kill yourself, then it is other people’s business: one’s family, friends colleagues, clients, employers, anyone who relies on you for something. Even more so if it entails contracting an infectious disease. Nevertheless, I could do without being reminded of the inanity that is Hugo Rifkind’s column. Uuugh.

  • Chris Preece

    I was once told “If you don’t no what you’re talking about, it’s best not to say anything at all.” Take note.

    • Adam Carter

      But if you can’t spell it’s OK to write for a wide audience on the internet.

      • Paul

        I genuinely can’t see any misspelt words in Chris Preece’s comment. Or are you referring to typos in the main article? Either way, I’m not sure it’s accurate to say Spectator blogs get a “wide audience on the internet”.

    • Donafugata

      Even more so if you can’t spell.

  • Count Spencer

    “my friend and colleague Hugo Rifkind ”
    you can always tell a man by the company he keeps

    • polidorisghost

      I assume that Rod is simply displaying good manners: All colleagues are referred to as friends, even when you hate them.

  • James Chilton

    We cannot always give a rational account of why we feel disgusted. But does that matter in the case of somebody like Mr Blunt?

    • Miss Floribunda Rose

      Disgust is a result of evolutionary processes which cause us to avoid the unclean.

      • Paul

        I’m not sure I agree with that. Hygiene, as we know it now, is actually very modern. Too modern to be considered evolutionary anyway.

        • Miss Floribunda Rose

          If a caveman ate rotting meat, for example, he might die. I meant it in this way.

  • Malcolm Stevas

    Oh my god is that what the amyl nitrate was for? Eeeeuw….

    • polidorisghost

      I wondered myself but was too embarrased to say.
      Asked the mistress: She just said don’t go there, but if you must martinis are better.

      • Marvin

        Why the boxing gloves though?

        • polidorisghost

          For champion athletes only, so try at your own risk.

          PS: They look better on me than her.

      • Malcolm Stevas

        Gosh, the things I learn here… Thanks – I think.

        • polidorisghost

          Glad to help and good luck

    • Marvin

      They do know how to be happy and gay.

    • AndrewMelville

      I also read that with interest.

      As Liddle points out, when so much pharmacology is required to make the thing run, perhaps it’s better that it shouldn’t. Yuck indeed.

      Now to look up “jemmy”.

  • The Masked Marvel

    Cue the condemnation of homophobic hate speech, and another opportunity for the BBC/Guardian axis to call Rod a bigot.

    • http://Firebird.com JunkkMale

      Pretty sure it was all necessary for the ‘boundary-pushing’ Radio 4 play currently in production. That is, the next one in this arena.

      • The Masked Marvel

        I eagerly await the Radio 4 play on women who were assaulted by migrants in public pools.

    • mickey667

      Its just boring provocation that means nothing though. He;s nothing left to say anymore.

      • The Masked Marvel

        That’s the job of a ‘humour’ polemicist, though. Rod has to keep churning out copy, you see, if for no other reason than to give the appearance of doing something else for his paycheck aside from commissioning pieces from Julie Burchill

    • txt_man

      Not a bigot. Just ignorant.

      • The Masked Marvel

        Ignorant? How so? Of what?

        • Nick Harman

          He seems well-informed actually.

    • usorthem3

      He is a homophobic bigot christian POS. You conservatives want control of all VAGINAS and PENISES for you deity.

      • The Masked Marvel

        Rod Liddle is neither Christian nor conservative.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          So, he’s like you in your view then. Hmm!

        • Ed

          He is documented as a god botherer, and socially he’s conservative – when he’s not laying about his pregnant women, of course….

  • Adam Carter

    You are half wrong on this one, Rod.
    Your point about there exists a need for ‘poppers’ and lube is not bad, but it is imporatnat that queers should be able to do what they like in private.
    And ‘Amyl nitrate is very bad for you – so ban it.’ is completely wrong.
    It is no business of yours, or the state, to tell adults of sound mind what they should ingest. Or otherwise put into their bodies, of course.

    • ButcombeMan

      That is an awful lot of consumer protection you are writing off, at a stroke.

      • William Haworth

        But just imagine if the UK population were treated like grown-ups; where would it end?

        • red2black

          Most actions taken by armed civilians don’t seem very grown up.
          More guns mean more gun-related crime.

          • newminster

            The American experience would seem to contradict that hypothesis, red2black.

            • red2black

              There seem to be a lot of fatal shootings in America, including some carried out by schoolchildren.

            • For Whom the Troll Bells

              Are you suggesting that firearms related crime in the USA has no correlation to the number of guns in the country?

    • King Kibbutz

      So when can I buy me a gun?

      • Adam Carter

        As soon as our rulers understand that society would be better, and safer, if law-abiding citizens who are not mentally ill and have undergone a firearms training course were allowed to own guns.
        I am in favour of an armed citizenry.
        Unfortunately most people don’t think this issue through, they just emote when there is a criminal shooting.
        If a small percentage, maybe 20% to 30% of the Bataclan audience in Paris had been armed then fewer innocents would have lost their lives to the savages.

        • King Kibbutz

          In our current and projected state, I am of the same opinion. Even five years ago I would never have dreamt of it.

          • bionde

            I am about to invest in half a dozen cans of hornet spray to keep in handy spots round the house. If you have the doors open on a hot day you never know if you might get a nasty infestion

        • For Whom the Troll Bells

          You don’t think that there just might be a connection between the USA having the highest level of gun ownership in the world, and having a number of fire-arms related deaths proportionate to population that is over 30 times bigger than that of the UK which has very stringent gun ownership laws, do you? I am not at all sure that, by the criteria you have proposed, you would be allowed to own a gun.

          • starfish

            You don’t think there might be a connection with gang warfare and drug cartels?

            Anyhoo the weapon of choice in this counrty appears to be knives and machetes thanks to our cultural enrichment

            • For Whom the Troll Bells

              Gun crime from gang warfare and drug cartels certainly adds to the figures in some areas but most gun crime across the US is not from gang warfare or drug cartels.

              Perhaps there’s a connection between stringent gun controls in this country and what you term the weapon of choice by some parts of the population!

              • mandelson

                You say most gun crime across US is not from gangs or drug cartels. Assuming you are leaving out suicide then are you saying that most gun crime is carried out by licensed gun holders? Please define what crimes and who is carrying them out by percentage with a source that can be checked. I assume you have a credible source for your assertion?

                • For Whom the Troll Bells

                  “Assuming you are leaving out suicide then are you saying that most gun crime is carried out by licensed gun holders?”. No, funnily enough, what I am saying is exactly what I said. That is that, apart from some areas, most gun crime across the US is not from gang warfare or drug cartels. How you interpret this as saying that most gun crime is carried out by licensed gunholders is beyond me. Some of it will, of course, be from licenced gun holders but much will be using Illegally held guns by professional or part-time criminals settling scores with others of their kind; in vendettas and disputes; by burglars, robbers or muggers in pursuit of their ‘trade”, by drug or alcohol addicts out of their minds; by deranged people; by political, ethnic or religious extremists; in “settling” disputes with employers or with colleagues etc etc. Before providing you with a credible source for what you call my assertion, I need to know what you think my assertion is – what I said or what, in some strange way, you think I said. In the meantime, take a look at this reference that concludes

                  “The bottom line of most of this information is quite clear: the firearms being used in crimes are overwhelmingly illegal weapons”

                  http://gun.laws.com/illegal-guns/illegal-guns-statistics

                • mandelson

                  Right so you answer a question with a question. Anyway the last line is sufficient. Illegally held guns are the problem. So irrelevant to legally held guns.

                • For Whom the Troll Bells

                  Legally held guns are very relevant to the problem because almost every illegally held gun started life as a legally held one. Every gun that leaves the factories of Ruger, Smith & Wesson or Colt was legally purchased by the military, law enforcement agencies or licenced gun dealers. They, in turn, sold them on, usually legally, to others. However, from there, the lower down the supply chain the more the guns are likely to be sold illegally, lost or stolen. In the UK, we have very few legally held handguns other than those owned by official bodies and, in consequence, very few illegally held guns. Of course, very few does not mean none.

                • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

                  You seem to be unaware that there is a large supply of illegally imported firearms that have been smuggled into the UK in the boots of cars, or inside spare tyres from the continent. There was a massive surge in supply after the Balkan wars of the 1990s. Police contacts I have spoken to told me that there are pubs in every town where criminals can buy or hire a pistol and ammunition for very little money. There has also been a surge in home made guns and legally held replica non active firearms being converted to fire live rounds. Ammunition can also me easily manufactured. CRIMINALS can always get guns.

                • For Whom the Troll Bells

                  Where on Earth is the question in the post to which you have replied? The only question mark is in your sentence that I quoted. In another part of this discussion, you said that I gave a figure of 30% for something. I have not in this thread ever given such a figure and asked you where you think it was. You have not replied. Are you actually reading the posts in this thread or simply indulging your gun fantasies?

                • mandelson

                  Take an aspirin and have a lie down dear boy.

                • For Whom the Troll Bells

                  I am happy to leave you to your thoughts, John McClane. In any case, the discussion with you was becoming the intellectual equivalent of kicking a puppy.

                • mandelson

                  Oooh you do have some interesting fantasies.

                • scotsims

                  I’d use the FBI crime stats which ar much more accurate and not biased.

                • For Whom the Troll Bells

                  I wasn’t aware that the FBI had any figures for the percentage of illegal firearms cf legal ones used in crimes – do you have a link? The FBI figures do show, however, that half of all murders are by guns and the US Bureau of Justice states that 80% of guns available in the US are from US manufacturers, and it is ludicrous to think that these were sold illegally by the factories. So, unless almost all murders using guns were carried out by citizens who bought them legally for legal purposes, a good proportion of those legal guns must have become illegal ones through being stolen, lost or illegally sold on. More guns, more illegal guns. More guns, more gun crime.

                • scotsims

                  Apologies, faulty memory.

                  What little I found was that there are no actual counts of illegal guns used in murders, part of the problem is that many guns aren’t recovered, the other part is semantics – the definition of “illegal” – gift, borrowed, stolen.

                  Again no attempt to deceive on my part.

                • For Whom the Troll Bells

                  No attempt to deceive assumed and apologies accepted.

                • scotsims

                  License? Bwahahaha!

                  See FBI crime rates. Pretty much all others are biased.

            • PaD

              Its knives and machetes only because its 5years in jail immediately for possession of a gun..no ifs no buts

          • Adam Carter

            Disproportionately, who are the victims?
            Criminals shot by other criminals make up a lot of the victims.
            Then there are the innocents who are slaughtered at ‘gun-free’ zones like schools, cinemas and offices where the killer knows he will meet no resistance.
            When there are a few attempted mass shootings by attackers at shooting ranges or gun shows without the killer being killed by his intended victims, then I’ll believe that ‘gun-free’ zones are a good idea.
            Next time you are in a group of people, say a theatre or concert, have a look around and ask yourself if you would be less safe if some of those, who satisfy the criteria I have put forward, were carrying concealed weapons.
            And if the USA were to have more stringent gun contriol, as so many seem to call for, how many criminals and gang members would give up their guns, do you think? I’ll tell you my answer to that question: very few would give up their guns.
            Would the law-abiding populace then be safer, with stricter gun control? Or not?

            • For Whom the Troll Bells

              Leaving aside criminal use of firearms in the US, the rate of firearms related suicides is 44 times that of the UK and the accident rate is thousands of times higher. However you look at it, more guns means more deaths, including those of innocent people. Of course it wouldn’t stop the criminals but it would reduce the number of suicides and accidents over time, and crminals might find less incentive to carry firearms if fewer weapons were in circulation. It’s probably too late to turn the clock back in the US but let’s not pretend in the UK that the answer to firearms related deaths is yet more firearms.

              Your propositions concerning cinemas or the stadium in Paris are, to say the least, ill thought out. So, in this crowded cinema with subdued lighting, a large number of the customers are carrying concealed hand guns. An unknown number of gunmen start shooting – pandemonium breaks out, confusion reigns, no-one has any idea what is happening and everyone is scared witless. Not you, of course, because you are are unfazed and have acute situational awareness. As you pull out this hand gun, everything suddenly goes blank – a Dirty Harry wannabee two rows behind you has seen you with a gun and, thinking that you were another perpetratot, shot you down. More and more wannabees join the exchange and the result is… well, yet more innocent deaths.

          • RandsWrath

            If you discount shootings by the duskier part of their population (aka ‘gun violence’, ‘shots ringing out’, ‘violent streets’ etc) then the US has a homicide rate the same as… Switzerland.

            The truth will out.

            • For Whom the Troll Bells

              And if you discount everyone who isn’t a Bhudist priest, then the US figures are the best in the World. But let’s take your case of Switzerland – this paragon of gun ownership has a firearms related murder rate 4 times that of the UK and a suicide rate many times larger.

              • Adam Carter

                What’s the murder rate overall?
                What are the rates for other crimes of violence?
                These are interesting and important points. I don’t think it is yet fully understood what makes some countries and cultures more prone to violence.

                As for suicide – different altogether, and nothing to do with the merits, as I see them, of gun ownership for defence of law-abiding citizens.

                • For Whom the Troll Bells

                  As for suicide – everything to do with gun ownership for defence of law-abiding citizens since the overwhelming number of handgun suicides are from handguns that were bought quite legally for defence by law abiding citizens. Far, far more people are killed by legally owned handguns in the US from suicides, quarrels within the family, accidents and irresponsible use than have ever been used in justifiable defence of home, family and person.

                • Adam Carter

                  So people swho want to commit suicide and own a gun will often use a gun to do it.
                  People who can travel to Beachy Head might do it there.
                  People with easy access to a railway line might do it there.
                  So what?
                  Suicide is a personal choice and is nowhere near as important as protecting the law-abiding from criminals who would do them harm. And that’s what legally held guns do.

                • scotsims

                  in 2012 259 justifiable gun-related homicides occurred in self defense.

                  Your arguments are all cr*p and aimed at ignorant white suburbanites to sell guns.

                • mandelson

                  OK so you advocate knife control, rope control, sleeping pill control, bridge control? I’m sure I’ve missed a couple.

                • For Whom the Troll Bells

                  No, but I do think that mandatory treatment in a secure facility for people who have an alarming inability to understand straight forward language might be useful.

                • scotsims

                  Compared to guns, murder rates from those methods are negligible.

                • scotsims

                  Actually it’s all the same as the weapon used to kill is a firearm. The suicide rate would be massively smaller if firearms weren’t involved, as would domestic abuse shootings, shootings during arguments. The US murder rate is that of a third world country.

              • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

                You are only counting gun related homicide. In Britain people use knives and bottles and blunt objects to murder because most of them don’t have a gun, They still murder people more than the Swiss do. If a Swiss nutter is going to murder someone he uses his army pistol or his rifle. You are still less likely to be murdered in Switzerland than you are in London or Nottingham or a whole lot of cities where the weapon of choice is a bottle or a carving knife.

            • scotsims

              The truth is out there.
              More whites are killed by whites, than blacks killing whites.
              See FBI crime statistics.
              How long have you been a white supremacist.

              • 1688

                Blacks are a mere 13% of ( u.s ) population – Whites nearly six times that . Besides far more blacks murder Whites than vice versa in absolute terms ..

                • scotsims

                  FBI crime stats expose you as the racist liar that you are. F off.

          • mandelson

            I suspect you are including kilings by gang bangers and suicides in your 30%. What has that to do with law abiding citizens with a gun license?

            • The Duke of Mendoza

              Well, this is both a long way and a refreshing change from the grislier aspects of buggery. But if you want a *fact*-based discussion of US firearms law (which is by no means uniform across the 50 States) and the connection between demographics [black people] and related crime, I suggest you read the last chapter of “Does the Trigger Pull the Finger?” by Richard Law & Peter Brookesmith. Meanwhile, I’m with Adam Carter on this one, provided the gun owner has had adequate training in safety, accuracy, tactics and the law. And will leave with a question: would the joy-boys in Paris have entered that concert hall if they had thought that an appreciable number of people were packing?

              • For Whom the Troll Bells

                “would the joy-boys in Paris have entered that concert hall if they had thought that an appreciable number of people were packing?”. I doubt that it would have had an iota of effect – they already had far greater firepower than could have been deployed against them and, if they didn’t think that they did, they would simply have increased their own with perhaps even more deadly results. More chance of getting killed by someone “packing” = more chance of becoming a martyr and meeting the 72 virgins. to have adequate training in safety, accuracy, tactics and the law is not something that ordinary citizens can get. It takes very long, very intensive training plus stringent phycological screening and regular testing before special forces and police firearms officers are deemed qualified to cope with hostage and terrorist situations, and even they get it wrong sometimes. The last thing we need in the UK is large numbers of Dirty Harry fantasists “packing”.

                • The Duke of Mendoza

                  Somewhat earlier in this discussion you wrote:
                  “In the UK, we have very few legally held handguns other than those owned by official bodies and, in consequence, very few illegally held guns. Of course, very few does not mean none.”

                  It’s not very few. Using various statistics, in 1988 Mike Yardley estimated the number of off-ticket guns (of all kinds) in non-official hands to be about 4 million. It’s known that since the Fall of the Wall, the number of off-ticket Makarov pistols in the UK increased more than somewhat. No one knows how many pistol owners complied with the 1997 handgun ban/hand-in, but comparing trade sales with the numbers handed in suggest that 75% of previously-registered pistols stayed out of government hands. Law and Brookesmith (op. cit.), making their own additional calculations, suggest that the pool of unregistered weapons in private hands may currently be as high as 10 million. That’s one firearm per six people.

                  Now you say, à propos the Bataclan atrocity:
                  “More chance of getting killed by someone “packing” = more chance of becoming a martyr and meeting the 72 virgins.”

                  They were wearing suicide vests in hope of meriting all those virgins, though (why 72, I wonder?). So they were not expecting to survive in any case. My suggestion would be that they’d attack somewhere else where people would be less likely to be carrying, as all the mass shooters in the US and UK have done (schools, cinemas &c). But I also suggest that if they couldn’t let go of Bataclan, they would have stopped shooting sooner had they had some return fire. I grant there would have been some risk of an Irish firing squad developing. But that’s where training comes in.

                  Then you say:
                  “To have adequate training in safety, accuracy, tactics and the law is not something that ordinary citizens can get. It takes very long, very intensive training plus stringent phycological [sic] screening and regular testing before special forces and police firearms officers are deemed qualified to cope with hostage and terrorist situations, and even they get it wrong sometimes.”

                  1) When handguns were “legal”, it was perfectly possible to get such adequate training, albeit not that cheaply. You can still get it in the US and various other countries. So just add the cost of an air fare.

                  2) Special forces and the police are trained in offensive tactics, and (generally) for acting in co-ordinated groups. Judging from various incidents involving armed police in the UK over the years, and the number of bullet holes one’s seen in the roofs of police ranges, my impression is that their training in all the aspects mentioned leaves more than somewhat to be desired. Civilian firearms training was and is always in individual defensive tactics. There is a difference. And it’s designed to dissolve any Dirty Harry–style fantasies, should they be lurking. Although it has to be said, whatever else he did or didn’t, Harry never missed.

                  And before everyone falls asleep, bear in mind that before the first gun controls were introduced in the UK in 1920, the murder rate (by all means) was astonishingly low. As it is in Vermont, where gun controls are virtually non-existent.

                • For Whom the Troll Bells

                  1. Once you start citing Mike Lawrence as an unbiased. credible and authorititive source for any firearms statistics, let alone statistics for the UK, you are into the world of total fantasy.

                  2. It is absolute nonsense to suggest that, when handguns were legal in the UK, it was possible for ordinary citizens to get the same sort of training, far less the psychological screening and testing, that special forces and police firearms officers get today..

                  3. Your “sic” to my typo of “psychological” is a cheap shot – but what else can one expect from gun fantasists but cheap shots; there’s not much else to support their bizarre view of the real world?

                  4. 72 virgins?. In Islam, the concept of 72 virgins (houri) refers to an aspect of paradise. Surah Dukhan chapter 44, verse 54.

                  5. Your impression that the training of police firearms officers leaves a lot to be desired based on bullet holes in the roofs of ranges is testament to your ignorance (and I use the word in its literal sense).

                  Your position on guns is pure fantasy, and dangerous fantasy at that.

                • The Duke of Mendoza

                  Here it is by numbers, folks:

                  1. Once you start citing Mike Lawrence … you are into the world of total fantasy.

                  Can’t argue with that, mainly because I didn’t mention anyone of that name and have no idea who he is. If he exists, even.

                  2. It is absolute nonsense to suggest that, when handguns were legal in the UK, it was possible for ordinary citizens to get the same sort of training, far less the psychological screening and testing, that special forcws [sic] and police firearms officers get today..

                  I already explained the difference between military/police training and civilian firearms training, so what you say is irrelevant. And if my point is “absolute nonsense”, how’d you explain how I & many another went on such courses, and learned much from them?

                  3. Your “sic” to my typo of “psychological”is a cheap shot – but what else can one expect from gun fantasists but cheap shots; there’s not much else to support their bizarre view of the real world?

                  O dear. I have statistics, common law, and maybe even common sense on hand to offer you re: an armed citizenry and self-defense. These are not fantasies. Further, you have no idea (and I’m not about to help you on this one) what my personal experience of self-defense with firearms is. But I can’t help but be curious as to the extent of your own personal acquaintance with firearms and their practical employment, because you’re beginning to sound like someone who doesn’t have a great deal of either. Instead, you have the mantra of “fantasy”. I suggest: Your fantasy, old fruit, not mine.

                  4. 72 virgins?. In Islam, the concept of 72 virgins (houri) refers to an aspect of paradise. Surah Dukhan chapter 44, verse 54.

                  But why 72? Why not 23? or 47? or 32? An aspect of someone else’s Paradise is having to play the harp. I don’t understand that either. So your answer is another non-answer.

                  5. Your impression that the training of police firearms officers leaves a lot to be desired based on bullet holes in the roofs of ranges is testament to your ignorance (and I use the word in its literal sense.

                  It is, as I indicated, based a bit more than that. And bullet holes in the roof of a range is OK? Really? You’d’ve had some difficulty finding such a thing on a civilian pistol range in ye olden days. You have no grounds for your aspersion of ignorance, literal or otherwise.

                  6. Your position on guns is pure fantasy, and dangerous fantasy at that.

                  Only dangerous to those who prefer to choose victims that they believe to be unarmed. Not difficult in the UK and France. An armed society is a polite society. I think Col Jeff Cooper said that. And he didn’t mean people were polite because they were fearful of being shot, but that armed people do their utmost to avoid confrontation.

                  If this is the best that the disarmers can do, I might almost prefer to go back to discussing buggery. But mmm hmmm maybe not.

                  The only acceptable form of gun control is a steady pair of hands.

                • For Whom the Troll Bells

                  Your No 2. You got me there! I meant, of course, Mike Yardley; I have no idea why I wrote Lawrence but, yes, I’ll give you that one. Apart from the name change, however, the rest of my comment stands.

                  I don’t think that I will ever convince you, nor you me, so perhaps we should leave it at that. For my part, I remain thankful that not a single Western country has been persuaded by the merits of the case that you and others have made and are relaxing their gun controls. Most are actually tightening up their laws, even the USA, albeit slowly and quietly to avoid offending the insanity that pervades so much of the NRA.

                  I am, however, in total agreement with you on one thing – the sentiment expressed in your penultimate sentence!

                • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

                  There is nothing but worthless assertion in this answer of yours. Re-read it and see if you can fnd any evidence anywhere – besides your own opinion that is.

            • For Whom the Troll Bells

              I don’t recall giving a figure of 30% for anything – where do you think I did?

          • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

            There are other armed societies which have fewer murders per hundred thousand of population than we do – Switzerland for example. EVERY able bodied man between the ages of 18 and 35 MUST keep in his home an automatic military rifle and a semi auto pistol with ammunition for both. On leaving the service, the militia man is able to buy his pistol for the princely sum of 40 centimes. Our homicide rate in the UK is 0.9 per one hundred thousand people every year. The Swiss rate is 0.7 per hundred thousand . In the USA the rate is now down to five per one hundred thousand. The difference is cultural and not the guns themselves. It is all about how people think and react.

        • scotsims

          Imagine 20 – 30 people in a busy club or darkened movie theater pulling out their weapon at the sound of gunfire. Who do they shoot? The guy with the gun. 20 – 30 guys with guns.

          That’s real smart.

      • scotsims

        Come to America, anyone can buy a gun. over 30,000. deaths a year due to firearms. DUCK!

    • William Haworth

      I remember them saying in the debate that more or less one person dies per year from using this stuff. So put a health warning on it, tax it and move on.

      So long as I’m not required to watch or participate, be free and happy.

      • peter

        Better and safer to have a massdebate!

        • For Whom the Troll Bells

          Very droll!

    • Donafugata

      Agree, totally, it is no-one’s business except that some gays make it our business by telling us even though we’d prefer to remain in ignorance.

      • mickey667

        In a debate on banning it yes.

      • txt_man

        So gays are forcing you to use lubricants? Engage in homosexual behavior?

      • johnfaganwilliams

        Dear Dona – with Gary Player I once opened a golf resort named after you.

        • Donafugata

          Really?

          I’ve taken my name from a novel called Il Gattopardo by Guiseppe di Lampedusa, you may have heard of it.
          Donafugata was the name of the summer retreat.

          Try to catch the beautiful film version with Burt Lancaster as the Principe.

          • scotsims

            So you’re a summer retreat? Or are you a golf course? Or both? Do you use protection? How many men do you treat?

    • Mark

      That’s fine, does that also mean that all associated injuries and transmission of viruses will be treated in private health care facilities?

      Thought not. The state has a role in preventative health care, which is being exercised in discouraging the misuse of amyl nitrate.

      Amyl nitrate in common with other vasodilators has side effects, hence it is a prescription drug, for heart and circulatory conditions.

      • Adam Carter

        You extend the discussion into the role of the state in health care.
        I am not in favour of the NHS. One of the reasons for that is that it seeks to interfere in people’s lives, for the reason you put forward.If I am paying your bill then I have the right to tell you how to live.
        We see it with the idea currently being put into the public consciousness that there should be a ‘sugar tax’ because there is an ‘obesity epidemic’. It’s a ridiculous idea; there is no obesity epidemic. You can’t catch obesity from me.
        However, it is next to impossible to discuss alternatives to the NHS in this country. Nobody thin ks about it; they just emote that it is wonderful.

        • Matt Sharp

          What would be your preferred alternative to the NHS?

          • Adam Carter

            This is a very difficult question because what I would like is not achievable from where we are. Therefore we would need to have a national discussion about it, with positions necessarily changing to accommodate other views, views which would contribute to determining what is achievable.
            I would go for some sort of compulsory insurance, all catasprohic risks would be covered and there would be lifestyle questions to take into account increased or decreased risk. Motor insurance is compulsory, but the premiums also reflect the risk each driver brings to the pool.
            Yes, what about family history, genetic pre-disposition etc. over which the individual has no control? I don’t yet have the answer; I’d need to see what actuaries say.
            I’m not entirely happy about my suggestion because I don’t like the idea of compulsion at all.But I can’t see how to avoid it on this matter.
            This is a very difficult and complex problem and it would be very unwise to claim that I’ve got the ideal answer today.

            • right1_left1

              Private health insurance poses major problems.
              House insurance is a good example
              Very many wiggle factors are included in deeply embeded contract clauses to avoid speedy non conditional payouts ( or even any payment)

              As for private US health insurance !

              I dont think its necessary to ‘ tell people how to live’ but if a condition exists brought about by negligence or self indulgence then some of the consequent costs incurred should transfer from the taxpayer to the ‘user’

              • scotsims

                So childbirth costs should be borne by the mother and not the state/insurance. Cancer? Old age?

        • For Whom the Troll Bells

          I don’t agree with you about gun control, Adam, but I am with you on this.

      • TomSatsuma

        HIV charities have condemned the ban, saying it’ll lead to increased rates (I’d explain why but you’d just go eewwww)

        • bionde

          I am only guessing but I assume because less relaxation there would be more tearing (Ouch) leading to more easily transmitted virrises (Euughhh)
          Maybe they should try the aforementioned Martini method?

    • MenAreLikeWine

      So you support the legalisation of all drugs?

      • Adam Carter

        Yes.
        A lot of the social costs of drugs come because they are illegal.
        Legalise them and you’d have properly produced drugs without adulteration. Consumers would then know the dose accurately.
        You’d also get tax revenue.
        I’d restrict sale to licensed outlets and to adults only, with very secere penalties for selling or supplying to minors.
        In principle, and in all areas, I’d go for many fewer laws and much more severe sentences for crime.
        Anyway, I suspect your question was meant to imply that legalisation of drugs would be a bad thing.
        Let me ask you two questions – do those people currently involved in the drug trade want to see drugs legalised?
        The answer to that is ‘No’. It would wreck their criminal enterprises, wealth and income.
        So, why are prohibitionists on the same side as criminals?

        • MenAreLikeWine

          I believe that the legalisation of drugs would be a bad thing. It isn’t just about the immediate physical impact on an individual but the wider impact on others.
          Crack cocaine is highly addictive, if Mrs Smith, wife and mother, takes it, will the impact be limited to her?

          Would the crimes committed, by addicts to pay for their habits, cease if the drugs were legal?

          Unfortunately, while the taking of drugs is a selfish action, we need to consider the impact on others as well.

          • Adam Carter

            Let’s try again, a comment of mine with a four-letter word with an asterisk has gone to moderation.
            What if Mr. Smith, husband and father blows his wage packet down the pubb and in the bookies…?
            It’s not just death and taxes that are certai. It is also certain that some people will mess (That’s the changed word to avoid the censor) up their lives.
            That will never, ever change. And because it will never, ever change it is not a sound basis for making policy.

            • mandelson

              So do you propose the repeal of the law on seatbelts and crash helmets?

        • Bram

          Very good points. Drugs, prohibition…the biggest buddies of the illegal trade have always been the authorities and the costs to society have always been worse than the ill the authorities were trying to address with their wrong-headed bans.

          Without fail, they get it wrong. With the so-called War on Drugs, they get it spectacularly and monstrously wrong. In fact, the very same point can be made about migration. Had Europe adopted a sensible migration policy, with controlled and monitored circular migration as the objective, the continent would not be in the current mess from which it will never recover.

    • Marvin

      Happy suicides to all you luvvies.

    • RS

      If all ‘legal highs’ are banned other than by exception, there us no cause for an exemption for poppers or cabinet ministers.

    • Marvin

      Excrement is ok then?

  • Dr Bock

    Probably all those J.G.Ballard novels I’ve read, but gay MP makes such ‘revelations’ is a little dull, given that human psychology is a spectrum, it would have been far more entertaining if an MP had outed themselves as being into race play, the bien pensantists would have gone through the f***ing roof! Deep joy all round.

    • Adam Carter

      What is race play?

      • Dr Bock

        Look it up. Not my bag, but it exists.

        • Adam Carter

          Years ago I was acquainted with a white man who enjoyed getting close to black men. Apparently he was a ‘dinge queen’.
          The other way round – a gentleman of colour favouring closeness with honkies was a ‘snow queen’.
          I think.
          But this was in the 1970s, and since then I have ingested a lot of legal liquids that have done my memory no good.
          Scotch is (well, can be) very bad for you – so ban it, eh, Rod?

      • MikeH

        Something to do with the Oscars and their nominations.

        Or lack of.

      • King Zog

        It be Othello.

      • Holly

        Running away….quick!….
        One of ’em is bound to be f****ed.
        I could be wrong though….

      • Miss Floribunda Rose

        One partner plays Fay Wray, the other plays King Kong.

    • hepworth

      You think our homosexual community won’t go through the roof? they’re massing in force as I type, eeeeuw.

    • Malcolm Stevas

      I’ve read lots of Ballard but not sure how he comes into this….

      • Dr Bock

        The fact that human psychology is a spectrum, different people like different things to a greater or lesser extent, and that many of his protagonists reflect this truism, and if a debate like the one Rod discusses isn’t at least partially explained by this I don’t know what is.

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