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Will politicians finally admit that the Paris attacks had something to do with Islam?

31 December 2015

8:50 AM

31 December 2015

8:50 AM

Written after the Charlie Hebdo shooting in January and revised after the Paris attacks in November, Douglas Murray’s piece on politicians’ responses to Islamic terror attacks was The Spectator‘s third most read article of 2015:

The West’s movement towards the truth is remarkably slow. We drag ourselves towards it painfully, inch by inch, after each bloody Islamist assault.

In France, Britain, Germany, America and nearly every other country in the world it remains government policy to say that any and all attacks carried out in the name of Mohammed have ‘nothing to do with Islam’. It was said by George W. Bush after 9/11, Tony Blair after 7/7 and Tony Abbott after the Sydney attack last month. It is what David Cameron said after two British extremists cut off the head of Drummer Lee Rigby in London, when ‘Jihadi John’ cut off the head of aid worker Alan Henning in the ‘Islamic State’ and when Islamic extremists attacked a Kenyan mall, separated the Muslims from the Christians and shot the latter in the head. It was what President François Hollande said after the massacre of journalists and Jews in Paris in January. And it is all that most politicians will be able to come out with again after the latest atrocities in Paris.

All these leaders are wrong. In private, they and their senior advisers often concede that they are telling a lie. The most sympathetic explanation is that they are telling a ‘noble lie’, provoked by a fear that we — the general public — are a lynch mob in waiting. ‘Noble’ or not, this lie is a mistake. First, because the general public do not rely on politicians for their information and can perfectly well read articles and books about Islam for themselves. Secondly, because the lie helps no one understand the threat we face. Thirdly, because it takes any heat off Muslims to deal with the bad traditions in their own religion. And fourthly, because unless mainstream politicians address these matters then one day perhaps the public will overtake their politicians to a truly alarming extent.

If politicians are so worried about this secondary ‘backlash’ problem then they would do well to remind us not to blame the jihadists’ actions on our peaceful compatriots and then deal with the primary problem — radical Islam — in order that no secondary, reactionary problem will ever grow.

Yet today our political class fuels both cause and nascent effect. Because the truth is there for all to see. To claim that people who punish people by killing them for blaspheming Islam while shouting ‘Allah is greatest’ has ‘nothing to do with Islam’ is madness. Because the violence of the Islamists is, truthfully, only to do with Islam: the worst version of Islam, certainly, but Islam nonetheless.

In January a chink was broken in this wall of disinformation when Sajid Javid, the only Muslim-born member of the British cabinet, and one of its brightest hopes, dipped a toe into this water. After the Charlie Hebdo attacks, he told the BBC: ‘The lazy answer would be to say that this has got nothing whatsoever to do with Islam or Muslims and that should be the end of that. That would be lazy and wrong.’ Sadly, he proceeded to utter the second most lazy thing one can say: ‘These people are using Islam, taking a peaceful religion and using it as a tool to carry out their activities.’

[Alt-Text]


Here we land at the centre of the problem — a centre we have spent the last decade and a half trying to avoid: Islam is not a peaceful religion. No religion is, but Islam is especially not. Nor is it, as some ill-informed people say, solely a religion of war. There are many peaceful verses in the Quran which — luckily for us — the majority of Muslims live by. But it is, by no means, only a religion of peace.

I say this not because I hate Islam, nor do I have any special animus against Muslims, but simply because this is the verifiable truth based on the texts. Until we accept that we will never defeat the violence, we risk encouraging whole populations to take against all of Islam and abandon all those Muslims who are trying desperately to modernise, reform and de-literalise their faith. And — most importantly — we will give up our own traditions of free speech and historical inquiry and allow one religion to have an unbelievable advantage in the free marketplace of ideas.

It is not surprising that politicians have tried to avoid this debate by spinning a lie. The world would be an infinitely safer place if the historical Mohammed had behaved more like Buddha or Jesus. But he did not and an increasing number of people — Muslim and non-Muslim — have been able to learn this for themselves in recent years. But the light of modern critical inquiry which has begun to fall on Islam is a process which is already proving incredibly painful.

The ‘cartoon wars’ — which began when the Danish paper Jyllands-Posten published a set of cartoons in 2005 — are part of that. But as Flemming Rose, the man who commissioned those cartoons, said when I sat down with him earlier this year, there remains a deep ignorance in the West about what people like the Charlie Hebdo murderers wish to achieve. And we keep ducking it. As Rose said, ‘I wish we had addressed all this nine years ago.’

Screen Shot 2015-11-14 at 15.14.00

Contra the political leaders, the Charlie Hebdo murderers and the latest Paris attackers were not lunatics without motive, but highly motivated extremists intent on enforcing their Islamic ideas on 21st-century Europe. If you do not know the ideology — perverted or plausible though it may be — you can neither understand nor prevent such attacks. Nor, without knowing some Islamic history, could you understand why — whether in Mumbai or Paris — the Islamists always target the Jews.

Of course, some people are willing to give up a few of our rights. There seems, as Rose says in his book on the Danish cartoons affair,The Tyranny of Silence, some presumption that a diverse society requires greater limitations on speech, whereas of course the more diverse the society, the more diverse you are going to have to see your speech be. It is not just cartoons, but a whole system of inquiry which is being shut down in the West by way of hard intimidation and soft claims of offence-taking. The result is that, in contemporary Europe, Islam receives not an undue amount of criticism but a free ride which is unfair to all other religions. The night after the Charlie Hebdo atrocities I was pre-recording a Radio 4 programme. My fellow discussant was a very nice Muslim man who works to ‘de-radicalise’ extremists. We agreed on nearly everything. But at some point he said that one reason Muslims shouldn’t react to such cartoons is that Mohammed never objected to critics.

There may be some positive things to be said about Mohammed, but I thought this was pushing things too far and mentioned just one occasion when Mohammed didn’t welcome a critic. Asma bint Marwan was a female poetess who mocked the ‘Prophet’ and who, as a result, Mohammed had killed. It is in the texts. It is not a problem for me. But I can understand why it is a problem for decent Muslims. The moment I said this, my Muslim colleague went berserk. How dare I say this? I replied that it was in the Hadith and had a respectable chain of transmission (an important debate). He said it was a fabrication which he would not allow to stand. The upshot was that he refused to continue unless all mention of this was wiped from the recording. The BBC team agreed and I was left trying to find another way to express the same point. The broadcast had this ‘offensive’ fact left out.

I cannot imagine another religious discussion where this would happen, but it is perfectly normal when discussing Islam. On that occasion I chose one case, but I could have chosen many others, such as the hundreds of Jews Mohammed beheaded with his own hand. Again, that’s in the mainstream Islamic sources. I haven’t made it up. It used to be a problem for Muslims to rationalise, but now there are people trying to imitate such behaviour in our societies it has become a problem for all of us, and I don’t see why people in the free world should have to lie about what we read in historical texts.

We may all share a wish that these traditions were not there but they are and they look set to have serious consequences for us all. We might all agree that the history of Christianity has hardly been un-bloody. But is it not worth asking whether the history of Christianity would have been more bloody or less bloody if, instead of telling his followers to ‘turn the other cheek’, Jesus had called (even once) for his disciples to ‘slay’ non–believers and chop off their heads?

This is a problem with Islam — one that Muslims are going to have to work through. They could do so by a process which forces them to take their foundational texts less literally, or by an intellectually acceptable process of cherry-picking verses. Or prominent clerics could unite to declare the extremists non-Muslim. But there isn’t much hope of this happening. Last month, al-Azhar University in Cairo declared that although Isis members are terrorists they cannot be described as heretics.

We have spent 15 years pretending things about Islam, a complex religion with competing interpretations. It is true that most Muslims live their lives peacefully. But a sizeable portion (around 15 per cent and more in most surveys) follow a far more radical version. The remainder are sitting on a religion which is, in many of its current forms, a deeply unstable component. That has always been a problem for reformist Muslims. But the results of ongoing mass immigration to the West at the same time as a worldwide return to Islamic literalism means that this is now a problem for all of us. To stand even a chance of dealing with it, we are going to have to wake up to it and acknowledge it for what it is.

This is an updated version of an article that was published in The Spectator on 17 January 2015.

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Show comments
  • pathanoo

    I clearly remember the days when there was NO security at all at our airports. Who caused us to be a fearful and a closing society? No terrroists can survive this long and even prosper unless they are motivated and encouraged by their religion. The Muslims are gutless cowards who want to migrate to the evil West to enjoy the fruits of it’s higher standard of living and freedom but will NOT speak out the Islamic teachings in Kuran and Hadith which sanctify these beastly acts. We all know from Islam’s own writings in Kuran and the Hadith that Mohammed was not only a murderer but a pedophile. But Mohammed topped those two acts by porking his own daughter-in-law. Even the Muslims rose up against that act. So, the Great Mohammed said to those against that act,” O! Muslims, I did not mate with my daughter-in-law for the pleasure of my flash but I did so that it would be allowed to ALL Muslims. This is the Will of Allah.” Can any Muslim deny this fact. The daughter-in-law was his adopted son’s wife (he had no son only six daughters). Guess what? There is no adoption among Muslims. Rare exceptions notwithstanding.
    My son said it once so presciently. “Dad, Mohammed was the greatest hustler of all times.”

  • John

    Shall we talk about Islam?

    Have you noticed that when we try to discuss Islam, we are immediately accused of stirring up
    religious hatred or of being Islamophobic bigots, etc.? But we can say what we like about any other religion?

    We are surprised by how little our friends and acquaintances know about Islam, which contains perhaps the greatest threat facing our Judaeo-Christian civilisation.

    So here is a memo on some of the basic facts about Islam. It may be controversial but it is factual, and we hope it will encourage a long overdue national debate.

    1. “Islam” does not mean “peace”. It means “submission” to the will of Allah (God) [1]

    2. Islam and its Sharia law are a single legal, religious and political system, taking all authority from the Qur’an and from what Muhammad did and said in his lifetime (570 – 632AD). So Islam does not fit easily into liberal Christian democracies and with our “separation of powers” between legislature, executive judiciary and church.

    3. There is a major split in Islam between Sunnis and Shias, each of which contain many sects, from radical Salafis and Wahhabis to peaceful Sufis and Ahmadis.

    4. Muslims believe that the Qur’an was dictated personally to Muhammad by an angel, that it is
    eternal, perfectly preserved, and therefore not open to criticism. [2]

    5. However, recent research suggests that there may be a number of different versions of the early
    Qur’an, which was not put into its present form until perhaps 1924AD, and that the earliest manuscripts were changed many times. [3]

    6. All devout Muslims have to obey the Qur’an, and follow what Muhammad said and did in his
    lifetime (the Hadith and the Sunnah). [4]

    7. Where there are contradictions in the Qur’an, the verses reflecting the later revelations to
    Muhammad nullify or “abrogate” the earlier ones. [5]

    This is a central doctrine.

    8. “Abrogation” is crucial because Muhammad and the Qur’an become more aggressive after he had moved from Mecca to Medina in 622AD, and so the later more violent verses and deeds are
    those which Muslims are supposed to follow. For instance, the much-quoted early Meccan verse “Let there be no compulsion in religion” (Surrah 2:256) is nullified many times in later verses.

    9. After Muhammad had accepted his multi-faith hosts’ hospitality in Medina for five years, he
    forced them to choose between converting to his new religion, paying the non-Muslim tax (Jizya) or death[6].

    He ordered the death of several hundred people[7], and Islam went on to conquer most of the known world.

    10. So the Crusades were a response to 400 years of Muslim aggression[8], with brutality on both sides, as was common at the time.

    11. Muhammad’s example in Medina has become the doctrine of “Al Hijra”, by which Muslims are
    instructed to convert host societies to Islam. [9] Hijra is also a pilgrimage of Muslims into non-Muslim lands.

    12. One of the “Trojan Horse” schools in Birmingham is actually called The Al Hijra school. [10]

    13. The penalty for converting to another religion (apostasy) is death. It is illegal to leave Islam in 19 Islamic countries and punishable by death in at least 10, including Pakistan. [11]

    14. Muslims living outside the Muslim world are permitted to deceive their hosts to promote Islam
    (known as “Taqiyya”) [12].

    A recent example of Taqiyya arose here on 17th September 2014 when 119 British Imams and Muslim leaders wrote to the Independent newspaper to assure us that the decapitation of two British aid workers in Syria was “nowhere justified in the Qur’an”.

    To back this up, they quoted from Surah 5:32 of the Qur’an: “whosoever kills a human being……it is as if he killed the entire human race”.

    This sounds peaceful until you fill in the dots.

    The missing section reads: “unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land”.

    So the Qur’an actually says that you can be killed for “spreading mischief in the land”.

    The very next verse, Surah 5:33 supports Jihad; “the punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his Apostle and strive with might and main for mischief in the land is execution or crucifixion or the cutting of hands or feet from opposite sides or exile him from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter”.

    The primary verse justifying the decapitation of non-believers in the Qur’an, is Surah 47:4 which states: “So when you meet those that disbelieve, smite their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them…”

    15. The UK’s Muslim population went up 75% between 2001 and 2011 – from 1.6 to 2.7 million, with a third of them under the age of 15 (see attached ONS table) and the trend has continued. The government tolerates Sharia law in our Muslim communities, under which a man may have four wives [13].

    Furthermore, he can divorce his wife by simply saying three times “I divorce you” [14], but his wife cannot do the same.

    16. Thus there are Muslim activists in The UK and Europe who are confident of taking over our
    culture through “the power of the womb” and the ballot box. Civil unrest looms? [15]

    17. A large majority of our Muslim population is indeed peace loving. But they are not standing up to their violent co-religionists. It would be dangerous for them to criticise fellow Muslims, as their culture prohibits anything deemed to bring “shame” on their religion, family or community. [16]

    18. But a silent majority is not much help. No silent majority has prevented any of history’s great massacres – including the Chinese Cultural Revolution, the Holocaust. The Soviet Union etc.

    19. Islam now has energy and religious fervour, while we have decadence and indifference; not a
    fair match, over history.

    20. The murderers of Drummer Rigby in Woolwich in May 2013 quoted 22 verses of the Qur’an to
    justify their atrocity, six of which clearly support Jihad (see attached).

    Over 100 verses in the Qur’an encourage violence towards non-Muslims; though apologists claim they are all for self- defence. But are they? What about Surah’s 9:5 and 29, or 5:33, 8:39 and 47:4-6? (attached). Or Muhammad ordering the killing of hundreds of peaceful Qurayza Jews in 627AD?

    Modern examples include massacres perpetrated by Boko Haram in Nigeria, Al Shabaab in Kenya or Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

    The problem is that the jihadists believe they are following true Islam, and that much of what they do does appear to be sanctioned by the Qur’an and the life of Muhammad.

    21. As to The Bible, there are indeed many violent passages in the Old Testament, but no one
    is killing tens of thousands of innocent people, or aiming to take over the planet on the strength of it. The New Testament is entirely peaceful, even if that fact did not stop much violence erupting within Christianity over the centuries. But today Islamic extremism is clearly the major threat to peaceful co-existence.

    22. The least we can do is try and understand it, and talk about it openly amongst ourselves and
    with our peaceful Muslim friends. We must try to give their children something better to aim at in life than segregation, Al-Hijra and Jihad.

    We must somehow persuade them to reform or at least clarify their controversial religion.

    Only they can do it.

    23. If they don’t, the future of our Judaeo-Christian culture looks bleak indeed.

    [1]
    Surah 3:19

    [2] Surah
    15:9, Surah 10:37

    [3] “Textual
    Criticism and Qur’an Manuscripts” (Lexington Books, 2011) by Keith Small

    [4] Surah
    45:6, Surah 6:114, Sunnah 4:59

    [5] Surah
    2:106, Surah 16:101

    [6] Sahih
    Muslim (19:4294)

    [7] Battle
    of the Trench. 627 Guillame, The life of Muhammad; A translation of Ibn Sirat
    Rasul Allah P461-464

    [8] http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/crusades_timeline.htm

    [9]
    “Al-Hijra: The Islamic Doctrine of Immigration” (Pilcow Press, 2009) by Sam
    Soloman and E Al Maqdisi.

    [10] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-27574922

    [11] Surah
    4:89, Bukhari 52:260, 83:37, al-Muwatta of Imam Malik 36.18.15 http://secularism.org.uk/blog/2013/08/islamic-apostasy-laws–a-big-disgrace-in-the-21st-century

    [12] Taqiyya
    (Deception in Islam) Surah 3:28

    [13] Surah
    4:3

    [14] Muslim
    9:3493

    [15] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054909/have-babies-muslims-uk-hate-fanatic-says-warning-comes-9-11-uk.html

    [16] http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/richardlandes/100101297/liberal-intellectuals-are-frightened-of-confronting-islams-honour-shame-culture

  • Marvin

    Douglas Murray of all people should realise that the leaders of all the modern western countries unlike us, know the true numbers of Moslems that they have invited and still inviting to their lands, hence the appeasement and surrender to their demands. Unable and inapt to see that leaving out the ignorance of their interpretations of asinine beliefs, they worship the same god, book and religious
    dogma. Hence a Moslem is a Moslem no matter how much they detest each other.

  • R Fairless

    If you want a realistic take on Islam without falsehoods or lies or political or religious bias I commend the short history and religious lessons expounded by the late Christopher Hitchens. Without fear or favour he tells it as it is on U Tube still available to those who seek the truth.

  • Daidragon

    Douglas. Maybe ‘they’ will admit it is something to do with Islam when you admit it is also something to do with foreign policy decisions in the middle east. Islam is generally no more responsible for Paris than right wing polemisists are responsible for Breivik.

    • WTF

      They will never admit to any terrorist attack being anything to do with Islam in the way they automatically attach other symptoms to other anti-social activities, and there lies the problem.

      For example, the left in America like Obama & Clinton, immediately give the reason people die after a mass shooting as being down to gun ownership which is ludicrous and untrue. If a man goes on the rampage with a knife or a machete we never hear those same liberals demanding that knives or machetes be banned so why are guns singled out. They are only the instrument of death, not the cause or the action itself. You might as well demand the banning of cars because they kill people when drunks, drugged up individuals or joy riders use them and people die. The same applies to linking Jihadism to the Iraq war, there’s no direct link.

      Its fair to say that in certain cases you might be able to attribute western governments actions to ‘upsetting’ some Muslim in the ME whose family was killed due to their actions but its stretching it way too far to use that as an excuse (which many do) for a UK born Muslim to plot and kill UK citizens. Just this week a young Muslim woman who lived with a mixed religion family in Reading, had siblings, was educated to university level and is now serving 20+ years for plotting a killing spree in the UK with her husband. The ONLY common denominator that might explain her actions is Islam, as nothing else fits and even the judge implied as much when she tried to play a ‘victim’ card.

      We know that excessive use of alcohol is bad for your health and try to curb it, similarly with smoking & binge eating, and its about time the establishment admitted that Islam is the major contributory factor in barbaric acts we see today. Bombings, shootings, rape, be-heading, sexism, homophobia, FGM and honour killing all carried out by ‘domestic’ Muslims, are no different to their counterparts in Iraq or Syria. They are supposed to be citizens of a western country not directly affected by our foreign policies, but they still act in the name of their god and their ‘idols’ in the ME.

      Islam is the cancer that affects them first and the rest of us secondly just as the effects of tobacco, alcohol will when not controlled. Until we control Islam, nothing will change and if a young UK born university educated Muslim can become a Jihadists, think of the thousands of others who have a much lower IQ, some are mentally retarded & some harbor a persecution complex. Just reading the Koran & Haddith would convert them in the bat of an eyelid as they haven’t the ability to contextualize its contexts.

  • WTF

    Why does the liberal elite and MSM have this mental block when trying to understand why people like this well educated woman below commit terrorism. Some years back we had two Muslim doctors who tried to blow up Glasgow airport and now this woman with a university degree plots to kill Londoners. These aren’t your social misfits with low IQ’s or so called ‘persecuted’ Muslims that the liberals always use as an excuse, these people are supposedly intelligent with a high IQ but still resort to Islamic terrorism.

    Her parents were of mixed race but normal and not radical, she had normal siblings, she lived in a good neighborhood, she was well schooled, she hadn’t been abused as a child or young girl, she didn’t have medical issues, she hadn’t been on a Club Jihadi break in fact NONE of the usual lame excuses that liberals trot out to make terrorist victims are applicable, so why was she plotting to blow up a shopping mall.

    Come on all you mentally challenged liberals, please explain to us why and what is the motivation for this womans ‘conversion’ to terrorism as only one aspect fits the usual mould. I don’t suppose it has anything to do with Islam has it ?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3381530/What-drove-magistrate-s-daughter-plot-bomb-massacre-week-Britain-s-unlikely-jihadi-jailed-life-anguish-loving-middle-class-parents.html#comments

  • voidist

    when do we kick out our polticians who have become the willing breeders of muslim fundementalism

  • trobrianders

    Murray is a bit dense if he believes ordinary people take their cues from the pronouncements of politicians. People don’t need warnings about Islam from on high. Everybody knows that mainstream politicians are just trying to keep a potentially volatile situation under control by telling white lies.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Isłam strikes back, and what a cunning plan. The US and its synophantic allies attack, invade and occupy Muslim countries on a trumped up pretext. As payback, Muslims disguised as refugees invade Europe and set about converting European countries to Isłam. Brilliant strategy, made possible by the misguided liberal values of traitors mascrading as politicians.
    Take a leaf out of Japan’s immigration policy book: “So how many refugees have you excepted?”
    “Let’s see; there’s Muhammed, Achmed, Fatima… Must be at least half a dozen.”
    Jack, the Japan Alps Brit

  • omgamuslim

    Will right wing journalists stop peddling the lie that the Paris incident had something to do with Islam rather than the French bombing the territories under IS control?

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      It’s not either or. The two situations are interconnected.

      • omgamuslim

        It is “either or”. At least as long as people fail to connect the avowed socialism of the French leadership to their bombing enterprise thousands of miles away or the Christian beliefs of the British leadership in sending British bombers to do the same. If the beliefs of IS leadership are important so are those of the British and the French. In any case there is no good reason to believe that IS had anything to do with Paris.

  • Maggie

    I look forward to reading a Speccie review of the Tommy Robinson
    book,’Enemy of the State,’ – perhaps by Douglas Murray?

  • Nexialist

    In 2006, the then Home Sec John Reid (Labour) was intimidated and forced to suspend a visit to Leyton in London, by a small gang of Muslim jihadis, led by the Jamaican convert Trevor Brookes, ex-bouncer, jailbird and hard core islamist. Brookes told ‘kafir’ Reid that he had no right to come into a Muslim-controlled district and should leave immediately. Reid acquiesced, fearing trouble. Shame Reid did not confront Brookes head-on at that moment and make it clear to him that his ‘no go zone’ was illegal and would be challenged with the law and if necessary with force in a matter of days. We are all paying the price nowadays for Reid’s caution and arguably his cowardice, typical of the dhimmi Labour politician of the early phase of Labour’s multiculturalist experiment in glorious diversity. Ten years on, and ‘no go zones’ are a common feature of most if not all of our cities, big and small. But it is not only the hard case jihadis who believe that western democratic governments are a soft touch; the vast majority of the 3-5 million Muslims in the UK (including illegals,numbers unknown)) also marvel at the astonishing restraint of our politicians and governments, intimidated into submission, unwilling to take on directly the enemy within (unlike Hollande in France after Paris in November 2015, approving over 2000 raids on known islamist activists, with a treasure trove of warlike material; how many such raids did Theresa May call for?). Nowhere else in the (un)civilised world would Islam get such a free ride, paid for by the tax payer, who also takes responsibility for the slaughter of innocents. Basically, the western and uk ‘kuffar’ are getting shafted, whilst politicians continue to plead that Islam is an RoP. What is to be done? Fight back, yes, Get tough, yes, but go after what? My suggestion would be to enshrine in law a counter-attack on Islamic terror of any and all types, focussing on the complete banning and extirpation of the concept and practice of ‘jihad’ and all its variants in Islamic law, custom and practice, with a view to restore the supremacy of UK law and the courts. Banning jihad, we may be in a position to destroy the Koran as a code and handbook of war. In short, I would call upon a ‘war powers’ act, within which to outlaw any and all islamic ‘warmongering’ activity in the uk, as well as any utterances and practices which seek to bring about an Islamic state or caliphate. In essence, we need to re-occupy, hold and purge all those legal and social spaces and concessions where Muslim supremacist practices e.g. sharia courts, madrassas, no go zones, halal markets, islamic slavery) have infiltrated over the last 50 years and and take them out, by legal means or by force. Meanwhile Muslim immigration and the deportation of illegals and undesirables must become a top priority.

  • Shapster

    What a huge relief it is to hear someone daring to say the truth…thank you, Douglas Murray.

  • Child_of_Thatcher

    Donald Trump tells the truth, so now the elites don’t want him as president. Trouble is the people do!

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      It doesn’t matter how the people vote. What matters is who counts the votes. Doubly true in the U.S. of A.

    • Sue Smith

      I never stop throwing up whenever I hear the term “elites”. Nothing could be further from the truth as a description of these types.

  • sidor

    The most basic French principle used to be: there are no minorities in France. They successfully assimilated all the ethnic groups who happened to live in the territory controlled by France: kelts in Bretagne, Germans in Alsace, Italians in Corsica and Liguria, Basks in Gascogne. Now, we are observing a remarkable and very significant phenomenon: the French are spectacularly failing in their long and hard attempts to assimilate the Maghreb Arabs who they were massively importing since de Gaulle. This appear to be the end of the French idea of nationalism started by Louis XIV: one nation, one language, one faith (one fuhrer). The French attempts to force the Arabs to use French when praying in mosques were particularly entertaining.

  • Sue Smith

    Aw, shucks, it’s only because they weren’t able to hold a New Year’s Eve party.

  • Miriamgibson

    All thanks to the great Prophet Obuvia who helped me in restoring joy in my marriage again, I think I have lost it until a friend directed me to this great man Prophet Abuvia, he is indeed a very great man, I lost my husband to an unknown woman for six month, I was been thrown out of my matrimonial home along with my 2kids and nobody was able to help me and my kids I went to my mother in-law to complain of my husband attitude and to my greatest shock I was quarreled by my husband people and also thrown out, oh I wiped and wiped no help is coming so I have to meet a friend Mirabel who accommodated me and my kids and introduced me to this great man Prophet Abuvia who I contacted and he told me to not worry that this is the solution ground to my problem so I grabbed the word with courage and faith, he did what he had to do within 4 days my husband called me on phone asking me that where are we that he has been looking for us everywhere that we should please come back home also my mother in-law called and said where are we that my husband have been looking everywhere for us that we should go back home, wow this is joy I was full of tears and don’t know what to say, this great man Prophet Abuvia is indeed a superior oh thanks to him again,i love him, you can reach him on his email prophet.abuvia@abv.bg. i promise to
    share the testimony to the world forever.

  • Nips000

    Islam is not the only subject about which it has been made dangerous to speak the truth. As always, there is an easier way and a harder way to find out what the truth is. The easier way is to allow contentious statements to be made and to subject them to criticism based on evidence – and then actively choose the best truth you can find. The harder way is to wait for the bad results of untruth (ie lies if we could or should have known the truth) to work their way through our society to a point where they cannot be ignored.

  • Nic Glancy

    questions need to be asked for sure,
    On that note I must go, have a wonderful new year, hopefully something can be done to at least examine why we cannot call it as it is.

    • hepworth

      “Have a wonderful new year”?
      The way things are shaping it’s going to be a s*it New year.

      • Nic Glancy

        I believe as positive as I try and be this needs to be addressed, I have had conversations with followers of Islam who haven’t given me any reason to think there’s any honesty when speaking to khuffar, when pressed on it, they didnt ease my fears with Clear manipulation.

  • Nic Glancy

    There is a political side to a jihad movement, and also an offensive bloody jihad, jihad means struggle, but to negate from the facts of what it teaches even to a minirity I believe would be dangerous , also it has varying rules dependant on popularity percentages.not scare mongering but an extremely organised movement

    • hepworth

      “an extremely organised movement”.
      Spot on Nic, But our masters will NEVER admit this obvious truth.
      Traitors one and all.

  • Nic Glancy

    Well I actually think it’s an irrelevance right now ,getting back on topic is we need really question and understand Islam, and terrorism done it its name, because until we do that, it will remain a mystery which holds a potential threat on our freedoms

  • Edgar Uncumber

    Douglas Murray admits that Islam is “a complex religion with competing interpretations”, and that most Muslims live their lives peacefully.

    He then does some rhetorical acrobatics by saying a “sizeable portion” – around 15% – follow a “far more radical version”. But what does that even mean? Perhaps he would like us to make the leap and conclude that 15% of all Muslims are ready to kill for Mohammed.

    Scaremongering.

    • hepworth

      No pal. verifiable truth.

  • Nic Glancy

    One thing I know won’t help is not discussing and waiting, so I think it somehow needs to be made aware to the masses if the politicians won’t discuss it themselves

  • Nic Glancy

    When the leader of our country this year labels it as the religion of peace, which it just cannot be named honestly as, we know something more than knowledge is holding it back

  • Gilbert White

    What did Merkel’s heart say when she was head of propaganda and young Germans were dying trying to escape, the DDR.

    • hepworth

      Merkel has no heart. She’s a Communist to the core.

  • Andrew

    One of the few occasions where a non Muslim journalist has bothered to read a translation of the Koran before writing about it! I think the incident you described concerning a Muslim colleague is an example of the crime of accurately quoting Islamic texts whilst being white.
    The problem is that the Koran/Mohammed specify that Christians betrayed god (along with all non Arabs) by leaving things out and moving things around. In contrast the Koran claims that its internal consistency and completeness is the evidence of its divinity. So:
    1. Islam cannot reform by leaving the genocide, beheading, slavery out, whereas Christianity can, (although it involves moral contortions which I decided to reject when aged 10 and rediscovered the Martian heresy). Muslims can hardly deny the problem when it is the main point of difference in the Koran!
    2. Those who seek to appease, are by claiming things peaceful about the Koran falling into a trap of demonstrating they have not read it (or are lying), and actually betraying god in the process, they are an embarrassment to the West.
    3. It also demonstrates that “Allah has caused the infidels to turn their backs”;
    I fully agree that Islam should be challenged, but would go further and ban the Medina phase of the Koran as every Sura is hate…whether it is then possible to make a religion from the rest I am inclined to say to the Sharia brigade…”YP”.

    • Nic Glancy

      Thank god for some sense, I have said this earlier but not nearly as eloquently

    • Nic Glancy

      Here is a link to view some reactions when challenge on knowledge of the said Koran over 400 comments with facts
      I’ll leave it with you https://www.facebook.com/skynews/posts/1237353959612532

  • WTF

    Today when we look around the developed world we can see the effects of Islamic terrorism which a certain UK PM claimed will never change our way of life, if only that was true. We’ve seen airport security ramped up to become a complete pain in the rear but not much safer, shopping malls are now targets for Muslim jihadists to attack, schools in Muslim areas teach one set of values against our laws and young non Muslim girls are raped by the tens of thousands both at home and abroad by Muslim pedophiles & Jihadists. ISIS has even issued written guidance based on Koran on how Muslim men should treat their female slaves such as a father and son can’t rape the same slave. Yes Tony Blair, our lives have been changed irrevocably because of Islam and no leader will admit it.

    Its New Years Eve and Times Square is more fortified by police than any Jihadist held Syrian city with a two tier security check point and snipers watching out for Jihadists. Red Square has banned any celebrations as has Brussels due to the threat of Muslim terrorism. Trafalgar square could well be half empty as the public have lost confidence that any western government has a handle on the threat and are clueless on what to do. In short, the whole western worlds celebrations have been turned upside down due to a barbaric cult called Islam but few leaders will dare utter those words Islamic Terrorism or Muslim Jihadists.

    What will 2016 bring us, one thing is certain there will be further Islamic terrorist attacks on the west from within despite bombing IS in the middle east as there’s plenty of home grown Jihadists thanks to political correctness, multiculturalism & diversity.

    • Blindsideflanker

      Indeed , Islam’s contribution to international travel is intrusive security checks.

    • Nic Glancy

      Look up Islam in a majority everyone , search taqqiya, look at how they are commanded to ignore peaceful parts of the Quran which they will quote are abrogated/replace wit later hate filled
      verses. This is something fundamentally you need to be aware of.

      • Nic Glancy

        I am not seemingly getting the attention this issue deserves , so I will leave you all to excuse deny and overlook what the issue is within Islam.
        Because for some reason you don’t believe that a path to life is through their teaching, nothing else.
        Why can’t we show Mohammed picture, why can we not name the issue as what it is, which is fundamental Islam with the goal of jihad.

        Look at the link I left earlier, it may open some very necessary mindsets to tackle a very real issue

        • WTF

          Not sure what your point is.

          Islam is a barbaric cult combining religion, culture and government which lies to dis-believers even more than Hillary Clinton doe to the American people (if that’s even possible). It makes no bones about what it wants to achieve or how it is going about it to create a global caliphate and our leaders are ignoring its duplicitous intentions. In essence, it should be banned as it has no place in a western democracy and just promotes the worst excess’s that we’ve been trying to eradicate for years..

          • https://chaunceytinker.wordpress.com/ Chauncey Tinker

            I think his points are:

            1. That the oft-quoted peaceful verses that apologists like to cherry pick are abrogated by the later hate-filled and violence inciting verses.

            2. That most people (including our own UK govt.) are ready to tow the line and give in to demands that we don’t criticize the religion or draw pictures of Mohammed.

            He wasn’t disagreeing with you.

        • Margot5000

          Is English not your first language? It might be an idea to get any comments you want to make checked over by someone who does have it as a first language as at present they are incomprehensible..

          • Nic Glancy

            Apologies, but the interface i was typing on at the time was extremely laggy and slow to show my words, it doesn’t appear the spectator / disqus has the best mobile platform.
            I think at the time I got my points accross well enough.
            Do you have anything constructive to add becasue I’m not here for a petty spelling and grammar test.

            • Margot5000

              Yeah – apologies – but it did seem like you were trying to get something across in a 2nd language and failing which seemed a shame. Guess my brain was too slow to do the translation/realise what had happened.

              • Nic Glancy

                So no then?
                I will make sure i throughly check through my posts prior to hitting send so as not to incur the wrath of grammar fascists who can’t compute reasonably accurate punctuation.
                For the record I am educated in the UK and hold British citizenship.

                • Margot5000

                  Grammar fascists can be a pain but sometimes punctuation is needed to make sense of anything and the first of your comments I read just didn’t make any sense with or without punctuation. You’re running a risk relying on anyone to decipher what looks like just a jumble of words. Would have said it’s on the part of the commenter to make sure anything is halfway legible.

          • Linda Smith

            Nic Glancy’s posts are not “incomprehensible”. Stop nitpicking.

            • Margot5000

              Have looked at the first one again and sorry, it just doesn’t make sense. The second one isn’t much better. And as I said I would have thought it’s the responsibility of the commenter to make sure they are understood. To quote “I am not seemingly getting the attention this issue deserves”. ????

              • Linda Smith

                Reading the commenter’s posts, it looks like English is not his first language. However, you must be pretty thick if you can’t understand the points he is trying to make, whether you agree with them or not.

                • Margot5000

                  Guess I must be super-thick then as now I can’t understand the point YOU’RE making! Are you saying that we should be looking on here and guessing at what any commenter is trying to say because their English is so ‘unusual’. If you too are saying it looked like it was his 2nd language (and that’s being polite) then I guess that makes my point! Actually it might make another point. If, as he says, it’s not his 2nd language then it seems downright rude to put gobbledegook on, can’t be arsed to read it thorough, and think Oh well, my comments are so important everyone else can work it out.

                • Linda Smith

                  You’re just silly! You write “can’t be arsed” and then complain about another commenter’s use of English. Plenty of native English speakers post up weird slang phrases, and expect well educated posh folk like me to be able to understand them. If I posted up comments in academic speke, people like you would be complaining that they couldn’t read my posts without a dictionary.

                • Margot5000

                  Am a bit bemused by all this. Would have said that it’s you that’s being a bit silly. The original posting that started all this (what seems like half a century ago) was a totally incomprehensible comment that the commenter himself admitted had been sent off without being read – iow had left it to anyone reading it to make head or tail of it. ‘Can’t be arsed’ may not be a particularly elegant turn of phrase but I think most reading it will understand it. That is style not comprehension. I doubt whether any of what you call academic speke would be incomprehensible to most readers here. If, as you say, there would be obscure words in it then I would imagine most ‘wouldn’t be arsed’ to look them up, taking it that the commenter, YOU, ‘couldn’t be arsed’ to make themselves understood – just as the first commenter ‘couldn’t be arsed’ to read through the comment he was posting. Your comment ‘people like you’ is beyond patronising. I would imagine I have far more advanced academic qualifications than you do. I would also imagine that there are many on here with nil academic qualifications that make themselves perfectly understood – perhaps because they ‘CAN be arsed’ to read through their comments before sending them on their way. We seem to be taking up a ridiculous amount of space here with all this so my once comment would be that you seem for some reason to have one enormous chip on your shoulder.

                • Linda Smith

                  The crux of the matter is that the comment you found incomprehensible was comprehensible to me. You’re just a nitpicker. Ta ra ducky.

                • Margot5000

                  I guess ‘Ta ra ducky’ is the’ academic speke’ you thought I and others wouldn’t understand. It also doesn’t sound like something coming out of the mouths of ‘well educated posh folk’ amongst whom you claimed to be numbered – as opposed to us peasants I guess. So 10 for comprehension, 3 for style. Guess your degree was in Eastenders studies? Really interested actually. My phrase of choice for all this would be I’m gobsmacked that you’ve got your knickers into such a twist (around your throat!) over all this. Night night – or whatever that is in ‘academic speke’.

        • sfin

          Patience, old chap! Wait for the traffic to come by!

          Your original post needs careful reading – and people are naturally lazy. It’s why I make over use of quotation marks (“Islam in a majority”, “Taqqiya”) – or, better still, provide links.

          Nowt wrong with your English, per se (you’re clearly one of us, dwindling band, who still write with a pen!) – this is just a bit of ‘web savvy’ advice.

          Good post – and thanks for the research tips.

    • Coniston

      The true nature of Islam was what Benedict XVI was explaining in his Regensburg address, which Muslims widely attacked.

      • Jaria1

        Pardon my ignorance but was that the time when he referred to their religon being one of the sword?
        If so the thought has often passed through my mind if what he said was really the cause of his early retirement.
        It certainly didn’t go down well in some quarters

        • Coniston
          • Jaria1

            That tested my attention span Coniston . I assume you are an expert in the subject and are no doubt correct in doubting my suspicion about the old Popes reason for retirement. It does mention the Muslims outrage at what he had to say and I had already been aware of the fact that Muslims won’t tolerate the word of their prophet being questioned I’d just not open to discussion.
            We therefore should take the threats amongst us infidels very seriously as they bound to follow the dictats of the Koran without question.

  • Jack Smith

    I can’t understand why people tie themselves in knots arguing that not all muslims are bad, immigrants just want to work hard, only the minority of newcomers are criminals, blah blah. Because even if that were true, it would be irrelevant. The point is that the post WW2 mass immigration phenomenon has brought absolutely no positive benefits to Western societies whatsoever. None. For Britain and the rest of the West, all of the effects of mass immigration and multiculturalism are negative, disastrous in fact. So given that mass immigration brings no discernible benefits, only problems, we in the West have no incentive to try to separate the dangerous from the non dangerous or the productive from the burdensome. We don’t need or gain anything positive from mass immigration at all, so it’s just not worth the risk.

    • WTF

      I would separate out controlled immigration as opposed to mass immigration as controlled immigration can be beneficial and if done properly can be compassionate as well. In essence, the only immigrants allowed in should be either those that we need for specific job roles which we can’t fill at home and foreign spouses on the condition that the UK spouse supports his wife/husband for a minimum of 10 years. At a stroke by imposing strict conditions to all applicants, we’d effectively bar the majority of immigrants we don’t want without any liberal being able to label it racist.

      The sort of mass immigration that we don’t want or need is that which costs the indigenous tax payers dearly in money, culture, crime and especially now anti-terrorism measures. IS Jihadists in Syria do not present much of a threat to the west and could be easily be kept out of the country if liberals were slapped down but its the home grown ones that are the real problem.

      • Nic Glancy

        I am interested what is the big problem in telling the truth . Will we offend the Muslim world by addressing it by its name. It’s pure cowardice. And it’s something that I have always agreed with DM about surpressing our free speech. It’s revolting to not name it as it is.
        It’s also revolting to not confront clear deceit when it happens, which it does. I have examples

      • Jack Smith

        You’re right, small numbers of newcomers would be assimilable and could be a positive influence, provided that they were skilled, motivated to fit in and from culturally-compatible source countries. And if a native Brit wanted to marry an American or a Dane, then he should be allowed to. But that is not the sort of thing we’re talking about. The numbers are not small, they’re massive – transformational. We’re not being enhanced or just influenced by immigration, we’re been replaced by it. We’re not welcoming a few friendly newcomers, we’re being swept aside by vast hordes of demanding, disrespectful, rapacious and aggressive invaders. If the Windrush had never docked at Tilbury in 1948 and had none of the subsequent mass, poor-world immigration taken place, then try as I might I cannot think of a single negative consequence of that for our society. There is just no way in which the sort of transformational mass immigration to which we have been – and continue to be – subjected in the post WW2 period, has been positive or beneficial. We now find ourselves in a survival situation and if you’re still worried about whether some weak-kneed, liberal pant-wetter calls you a racist, then you have your priorities all wrong. Spurious accusations of racism is just a technique designed to bully and intimidate Brits into not standing up for ourselves.

        • Nic Glancy

          Bravo sir, so I suggest it isn’t illegal to drop the political correctness, a temoorary offence given is better than a permanent threat to our society, which people may need to realise it is.

  • twowolves

    Very few seem to understand the motives of the Paris attackers. Unlike previous terror groups ISIS has unique goals beyond terrorising European people. Their message is for Muslims already living in the West, this message is the messianic call “We are powerful and our enemies weak, now is the time to strike”. Hollande promised revenge but played perfectly into the ISIS game by doing pretty close to nothing. 2016 here we come.

  • Edgar Uncumber

    Sure, Islamist terror has something to do with Islam. It’s sort of obvious. But to say that Islam is therefore The Problem, particularly in Britain, is illogical, because it ignores other obvious facts, such as 1) a vanishingly small percentage of Muslims engage in jihadi terrorism, and 2) there was no jihadi terror problem in Britain before 2005. A sounder theory in my view is that a suite of catalysts is acting upon a tiny minority of people who call themselves Muslims to elicit a violent response from them, and this has manifested in the last two decades in Britain, and only minimally.
    Prominent among the catalysts is the success of the Mujahideen resistance to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, an international Islamic campaign that inspired young Muslim men around the world, and which gave birth to Al Qaeda and then to Daesh – each a vivid example of successful and alluring Islamic militancy, and a beacon for disaffected young Muslims.
    A recent study by Douglas Murray’s organisation, the Henry Jackson Society, looked at 32 IS-inspired terror plots in the West between July 2014 and August 2015. It found that of 58 individuals involved, 97% were men, 74% were under 25 (10 teens), 29% were converts to Islam, and 22% had been in trouble with the police before.
    The 2008 study by MI5’s Behavioural Science Unit challenged the “conveyor belt” theory that assumes
    terrorists trundle along a path of increasing religious conservatism before strapping on an explosive vest. After studying hundreds of cases, researchers found that many were bad or negligent Muslims, or converts, and that few were brought up in strongly religious households.
    It’s true that when these men want justification for their crimes, they will find it in their holy book. But to me it feels lazy and misguided to seek blame in Islam.

    • Blindsideflanker

      You cannot absolve Islam when converts or lapsed Muslims with criminal records take up the religion to an excess, that they do become Islamic terrorists suggests there is something very wrong with the religion where people can read into it that violence is justified.

      • Blindsideflanker

        PS Finsbury Mosque and Abu Hamza were involved in terrorism long before 2005. British tourists got killed by Hamza’s nephew in 1998.

    • WTF

      For decades governments have addressed new problems when they surface by looking at the root causes and dealing with it but not so with Islam.

      The UK used to have gun ownership but the government at some point decided that it was a danger/problem and cut back before Blair finally banned them. Its the same with drugs, tobacco & alcohol and laws are passed to deal with specific problems when they surface but they have been around for centuries before. Just as there was no problem from specific Jihadists as we see it today before 2005 doesn’t let Islam off the hook as there was no problem of teenage binge drinking until recently but alcohol is the root cause just as Islam is with Jihadists.

      Islam is the problem as Muslims by definition have to adhere to Islams teachings and there lies the problem.

      • Mary Ann

        The main reason that Christians are not doing the same is they are not doing as Jesus taught and are ignoring large parts of the Old Testament.

        http://www.bethinking.org/bible/q-how-did-jesus-view-the-old-testament

        • Nic Glancy

          Well both the old and the New Testament have been altered and modernised , but Islam is given as God final commands, undisputed, the oerfect example of godliness, and hence why we have the proble.m ,it is filled with hate they cannot ignore l

          • Nic Glancy

            So?. Why if we know this, are we just waiting. Surely we should support a movement to confront our MPs to tackle the very real issue . Is it bigoted to oppose a fascist ideology, it may not be popular, but as a disbeleiver, it wouldn’t be. Favourable for most of s as a majority.

          • Mary Ann

            Meanwhile, the Christian Church no longer follows the the teachings of Jesus.

            • Nic Glancy

              Agreed, maybe that where the country’s going wrong 🙂 the truth is if you do view Islam as a colonial power which is will create an inevitable to elephant in the room, what is there to do,.
              It does feel goebelsesque but I am aware how us khuffar are treated in the end

              • Mary Ann

                Perhaps we should be considering what percentage of Muslims actually believe that others should be killed for not believing in one small sect of Islam especially as that particular sect seems more intent on killing other Muslims than anyone else. We also need to ask why Daesh chose to drop false passports near the Paris attacks.

                • Nic Glancy

                  I think if you research properly their text you will see amongst internal conflict, their unwaveable view upon dhimmis is something of more grave concern,. I’m afraid the reason it’s not being discussed is because it is impossible to enforce change and I think it’s cowardice and defeatism

                • Nic Glancy

                  And another horrible but very true part of their religion is decption to further their religion, called taqqiya, it is widely accepted.

                • Nic Glancy

                  Maajid nawaz is part of the Islamic reform movement, he and others are attempting reform because of its incompatibility, it’s an ugly truth

        • WTF

          I think you have it slightly wrong, Christians are doing what Jesus taught as per the New Testament rather than the example set by that Islamic prophet.

      • Edgar Uncumber

        2.7 million Muslims live perfectly peacefully in the UK. So I don’t believe you.

        • Nic Glancy

          Have you had any demands put on you for change, are the birth rates and migration numbers something you keep an eye on in the minoritues, if when it isn’t a minority do you believe enforcement of religious law won’t be put to the establishment?

          • Edgar Uncumber

            In order: No; Yes; No.

            • Nic Glancy

              So when in a majority, their unquestionable religious text won’t be attempted to be enforced, even though they are required to live under sharia , unfortunately I wish that was a viable option , in reality I don’t then it is.

              • Edgar Uncumber

                When will Muslims be a majority in the UK?

                • Nic Glancy

                  I am no Fortune teller. But that wasn’t my Question to you, If/when they are do you not think it will happen? And the nature as. It is as it has always been is to spread and grow no?

                • Edgar Uncumber

                  I don’t believe they ever will be, so I can’t answer.

                • Jaria1

                  About 2050 . The most registered name at the moment being Mohammed.the Maternity wards are full of Muslims

                • Sue Smith

                  I’ve watched British reality shows set in hospitals, like “24 Hours in Emergency” and “One Born Every Minute” and I cannot believe it’s a British program!!!!!! As near to my image of Britain as I to Hercules (sorry, paraphrasing Hamlet).

                • Jaria1

                  Thanks to this IPad I avoid all those shows which my wife is hooked on, just put the earphones on. It’s not only Muslims who’s wives have seemingly accepted the secondary role. Whilst sitting watching the world go by at a border town between Spain and Portugal I noticed a smartly dressed man crossing the bridge following him was his wife laden down with luggage.( perhaps she didn’t want to tire him out)

                • Sue Smith

                  The difference is when one is actually codified and sanctioned by the culture and society, which seems to be the case with muslims. Of course, there would be educated muslims but they seem out-numbered by the medieval variety, sadly.

                  From what I gather, Syria has been quite an affluent culture and many of its citizens have done well as professionals. You’ll notice that many of them speak English. Assad was actually educated in the UK. But that doesn’t take account of the armies of ill-educated, chauvenistic medievalists who want to thrust their religion onto the rest of us.

        • Conway

          Wait until the figure is 27 million and I think you’ll be surprised.

        • Jaria1

          That is until their loyalties are tested .Apoll taken several years ago showed a significant minority of these peaceful Muslims were to varying degrees sympathetic to the “activists” ambitions

        • WTF

          On the surface that’s true but if you dig deeper, its a lie. Muslim schools brain wash kids in anti-west rhetoric, Mosques harbor radical extremists and even materials for carrying out bombing and we’ve yet to see any ‘moderate’ Muslim tell the authorities of a likely terrorist attack, sexual grooming of ‘white flesh’, FGM, Honour killings, pedophila etc, etc.

          Even the cleric at the San Bernandino mosque claimed he knew nothing about that terrorist who attended his mosque until it emerged he socialized with him. Those are the facts, you can deny as much as you like but facts are facts.

          • https://chaunceytinker.wordpress.com/ Chauncey Tinker

            According to this nearly half of their mosques are run by a hate preaching sect, at least this was the case in 2007:

            http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article2098578.ece

            If anyone has any more up to date information on this I would be grateful. Quite why the mainstream media aren’t investigating regularly I don’t know.

        • sidor

          They are mostly not Arabs like the French ones.

        • WTF

          In a word “Taqiyya” !

        • Sue Smith

          Yes, the stupefying effects of repression and religion can create that false impression.

    • E.I.Cronin

      1) The extremists wage Jihad. The moderates want Sharia.

      The intolerant, highly discriminatory nature of Islamic jurisprudence as well as the scriptural mandate for hatred of non-Muslims is of much greater concern and a threat to social cohesion than Jihad. A tiny fraction of Islamic extremists can do an immense amount of damage physically it’s true – my nation had one terror plot thwarted in which the cell was planning mass casualties of up to 1,000. But ‘worse’, in the sense of more widespread, in my opinion is the effect of Islamic fundamentalism in creating a society riven with hostility and resentment as WTF points out. Ruud Koopman’s 2014 study provides alarming statistics on outsider hostility within European Islamic communities.

      https://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-fundamentalism-is-widely-spread

      2) ”to me it feels lazy and misguided to seek blame in Islam”

      Incorrect. Jihad in the context of war is scripturally mandated in Islamic scripture and given glorious, lyrical praise, particularly the al-Bukhari Hadith.

      http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/TrilogyStats/Percentage_of_Trilogy_Text_Devoted_to_Jihad.html

      • Edgar Uncumber

        Thanks for the Koopman link. That’s sobering. I’m glad that you de-link religious fundamentalism from terror. It’s interesting that you see fundamentalism and the societal strife it brings as more dangerous. I would agree. We should be worried about power grabs in schools, and in municipalities, where the objective is to cement the advantage of a given ethnic or religious group. The bigotry and abuse in fundamentalist Islam or any religion should be named and challenged. I believe all this can be achieved without demonising all Muslims, which just fuels division and societal strife.

        • E.I.Cronin

          And likewise am glad you can acknowledge the damaging effects of Islamic fundamentalism which is far more widespread and dynamic in Islam than in other faiths. Oriana Fallaci in Force of Reason referred to Jihad as the ”fireworks” and argued, very passionately, that the real damage is cultural. I agree. The majority of Salafists are quietist.

          This is the Gordian knot liberals have tied themselves up in – hatred of non-Muslims; secondary status of women and anti-Semitism are all powerful, central themes in Islam. In our naïve commitment to religious freedom we have permitted a faith dedicated to the extinction of religious freedom and human rights to grow unchecked – and look at the results across Europe and all Western nations. Plus the aberrant ideology of Multiculturalism combined with political correctness and the bogus ‘Anti-racism’ movement means political and media elites have been paralysed by an overwhelming fear of criticising ethnic minorities. All while subjecting their own ethnic and cultural identity to a corrosive negative filtering.

          I simply don’t care what Muslims think or feel anymore – I’m more concerned about my own people. This debate has been unhealthily obsessed with minority concerns. We need to admit the widespread feeling amongst mainstream westerners that OUR culture, our identity and traditions have been demonised.

          .

  • Patrick

    Politicians will never admit it has something to do with Islam, as that would be the end of their career in politics. The small elite bubble of politics won’t allow it. I sometime wonder if the mad idea that the ruling class are lizards from outer space is true, when I hear another educated, seemingly normal politician say it has nothing to do with Islam

  • Callan

    I believe the latest post by Pat Condell on YouTube paints the picture perfectly.

  • Tzctplus –

    If Muslims were a violent bunch we would be toast.

    There are an important slice of the world’s population, so every analysis should start from the simple fact that they aren’t all out to get us Westerners, because their preoccupations aren’t jihad, caliphates and ask the rest of the extreme Islamist narrative.

    Reach country has a niche nucleus of people that are intent on violence and that become radicalised in front of our own eyes, hire many times have we heard that terrorists were actually known to the authorities?

    Islamists are few, a minuscule group, so frankly to blame Islam for the deeds of these deranged individuals is preposterous.

    It is an old favourite of people using wide generalisations about Islam to point out his violent the Koran is, conveniently forgetting that in the Bible’s old testament there are many examples of even genocide that could be embraced by deranged Christians as well, we are only so lucky that it hasn’t happened, but fit as long as the old testament exists thus will be always a latent danger.

    Containing Islamism should be old fashioned police work at home and robust attack against known hot spots abroad, as part of a new league of allies to include NATO, the EU, Russia and China plus any Muslim countries that wish to make it clear they have no time for international terrorism.

    But it should be the terrorists, not Islam, who should be attacked, the enormous majority of Muslims don’t care about the delusions of the terrorists and have no intention or desire to see innocent people killed randomly.

    • Mongo

      another RoP apologist/enabler

      did you learn nothing from this article?

      • Tzctplus –

        When there is a fundamental disagreement with the premise of the article it is impossible to learn much from something one considers to be mistaken.

        The reality is that we don’t have whole Islamic countries lining up to destroy the Western democracies, we don’t have all Muslims (not even a sizeable minority) vying for Western blood, and we have many Muslims that actually have more important things to do than to waste their time in jihadism.

        We have terrorist groups before, certainly not some with the deadly idiosyncrasies of the Islamist extremists, but it is noticeable how s many commentators are ready to put hundreds of millions of people in the same insane basket when it is demonstrably false that most of them means us any harm, all what you need to do is count man, count.

    • Patrick

      The problem is Islam under Mohammed and the years following his death were all about jihad. This is why so many times since, jihad has been the main thrust and the ‘true’ part of the religion. And as we see now, jihad across large parts of Aftica, Middle East, Asia and Europe ( and a growing jihad in America) shows this tiny number is growing again. Never since Vienna nearly fell to a Muslim jihad, has this problem for the world been greater.

    • Blindsideflanker

      While not all Muslims are terrorist, most terrorists are Muslim.

      So how do you spot the difference before they set out to kill you?

      The fact is if we hadn’t been enriched with millions of the followers of Islam our country would be a safer place.

      • Blindsideflanker

        “Bible’s old testament there are many examples of even genocide that could be embraced by deranged Christians as well, we are only so lucky that it hasn’t happened, ”

        Not a matter of luck for fortunately Christians have grown up. In addition the main part of Christian teaching comes from Jesus Christ who preached tolerance and inclusion, that can’t be said for Islam, for whom their prophet who participated in the slaughter of innocents and preached intolerance.

        • Andrew

          Indeed I left Christianity because of this, and so have no sympathy for Islam that is 100 times worse. The difference is in the Koran which bans leaving things out and moving things around because that is how Christians are supposed to have betrayed god (along with all non Arabs), so as you allude Christians can and obviously do leave the bad bits out and mostly have a good impact on the world.

      • Nic Glancy

        Genuinely , if people. Are coming here and discussing this as if Islam isn’t the number one factor in their lives then you ar serously misjudging the ways of Mohammed’s people’s as a majority
        If you’re looking from a integrated into society cultural perspective, you will not be making any decent or helpful contributions to the obvious future issue here.

        • Nic Glancy

          Does this need spelling out in very real terms.
          They are followers of Mohammed, they are ordered to deceive for jihad,
          They cannot dispute the instructions of their Quran. I suggest if you are looking at this from a human perspective you are being naive , because the way they are instructed to behave once in a majority is far from humane, and sharia law will be implemented.
          Once in a majority it becomes a very real issue.
          The fact we cannot discuss, the views of their actions in the name of their book is the very start of the problem.
          The way all Muslims, who call themselves Muslims, Isis being the epitome of good Muslims, however much this is hidden from us, are to spread is at the expense of the culture and way of life they replace. Wow
          Not an extreme view , the truth

    • WTF

      Actually, if Muslims were generally a violent bunch in the UK there wouldn’t be a problem as they would be squashed very quickly with or without the authorities getting involved. Its the very fact that the majority quietly support Sharia law and tacitly back the small percentage of Jihadists that we are under threat by an insidious creeping islamification of the west. Our very compassion is used against us.

      • Nic Glancy

        A problem les in our culture ALWAYS changing for theirs
        And isn’t us who demands the us and them situation.

      • Mary Ann

        majority support jihadists, I think you need to check your facts.

        • WTF

          I don’t disagree with that but that’s the point isn’t it, they aren’t violent in an active sense but are more dangerous because they don’t overtly show violence against us. I’ve lost count of the number of times some cleric at a mosque spouts platitudes after some terrorist outrage only for the facts to dribble out later he was a lying sack of s*** and knew everything about the Jihadists and kept quiet about it.

          That was the case with the San Bernandino killer where the cleric at his local Mosque initially claimed he didn’t really know about Farook but then it emerged he’d been to a party with the terrorist couple. Now its emerging there were even links to a New York Mosque so basically, you can’t trust any Muslim cleric and that’s due to Islam that tells them to lie to dis-believers.

          It should be pointed out that whereas churches are essentially just places of Christian worship, a mosque is far more than just a place of worship and mirrors the differences between Christianity and Islam where Islam is also a culture and a form of government. Its time our leaders woke up to this inconvenient fact and shut down/confiscate assets of any Mosques where this sort of activity is found. After all, we confiscate drug barons assets for illegal activities.

    • E.I.Cronin

      fyi… Some poll results copied from a regular poster here:
      ————————————————————————————————-
      NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified 16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is “acceptable”.
      Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops
      Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings
      are justified. 35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24%
      overall). 42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35%
      overall). 22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13%
      overall). 29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25%
      overall).
      Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are
      often or sometimes justified (81% never). 28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never).
      Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their
      religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are
      justified.
      ICM: 5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned
      Islamic terror attack to authorities. 27% do not support the deportation of
      Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.
      Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in
      Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.
      ICM Poll: 25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to
      report terrorists to police.
      Pew Research (2013): At least 1 in 4 Muslims do not reject violence against
      civilians (study did not distinguish between those who believe it is partially
      justified and never justified).

  • Liberanos

    In order to protect muslims from fully-deserved public outrage, governments have to continue pretending that these primitives would never obey the solemn imperatives of their faith. In other words, that these believers already accept that allah was wrong or mohammad a liar. I can’t recall ever hearing those sentiments.

  • greggf

    “All these leaders are wrong (about Islam). In private, they and their senior advisers often concede that they are telling a lie.”

    No Douglas you are wrong, they don’t care.
    The only European government that might reflect on the matter is when the Swiss populus does.

  • Edgar Uncumber

    The couple from Reading sentenced this
    week puzzle me. The guy, Rehman, was a drug addict and loser, hardly
    an exemplary Muslim, who developed a fetish for IS and martyrdom in a
    desperate bid for some kind of importance. His wife, Khan, was
    unhappy in a cloistered household, heading for an arranged marriage,
    who was caught up in an obsession with him. Most of the money she
    procured for him through payday loans went on feeding his drug habit.
    They were kids, really, at odds with their families, and caught in a
    destructive, isolated loop. They brought their drama to a head by
    reaching out, directly through the Internet, for jihadi inspiration
    and bomb-making tips, not through the mediation of any community
    teaching or encouragement. Is this even a ‘Muslim plot’?

    • Nic Glancy

      i have yet to discuss an Islamic viewpoint which is anything but agreeable to every single undisputed word of the Quran, sura and hadiths, if you’re aware of its contents and history, a plot is inevitable. I hope the moderates do appear, but when pushed on belief, I guess the apostacy fear comes into play.

    • Gilbert White

      Sounds a bit like Mo before he met the rich widow?

  • William Matthews

    I think there is little hope of a reformation in Islam achieving anything. The Qu’ran was written for Muslims. If you read it as a Muslim it is great. You’re the best, you’re the righteous, you’re superior, you’re on the side of good and god. Plus Mohammed as pointed out in the article is very much a ‘doer’ in fighting evil. He stoned women, beheaded Jews, subjugated unbelievers and conquered evil.

    If you’re a non-Muslim however, the Qu’ran is an utterly terrifying book.

    For young men and women fighting for what they believe is right, Islam is an enormously sexy idea. Practically orgasmic. An ancient book, steeped in history, that answers the problems of capitalism, atheism, corruption, moral decay and the people looking to perpetuate this decadent society: Jews, Christians and unbelievers.

    In a nutshell; Islam is exciting and righteous but only if you’re a Muslim mind you.

    In the same way that Japanese young boys love the demon Shogun Nobonaga who was far from being a saint, or if Europeans were allowed, the Crusaders of Europe. Or for us British, King Richard the Lion Heart — before he was declared politically insensitive that is.

    Reducing Mohammed to a peaceful man, and weaving past the numerous horrors he is purported to have performed will only result in an Islamic right-wing backlash, with only a slim hope of making the Prophet boring enough to be forgotten. Tantamount to making young Muslims stop watching Superman and instead watch ‘Rosy and Jim’. Good luck.

    I believe we cannot expect Muslims to reform their religion with any great success. The only hope we have in the West is for our society as a whole to undermine top-to-bottom the religion itself.

    Make it clear that the Qu’ran was copied (badly) from multiple sources, shout loud that it appears to be an off-shoot of a 3rd or 4th Century Christian-Judiac cult. Keep saying there is little credible evidence of Mohammed existing and most likely he is a composite character created to galvanize the Arabic Empire. Talking ants, flying horses, stars as missiles to destroy demons, the moon chopped in two are ridiculous concepts. Why can a document written in the 9th Century not be read clearly today? (We can read a 5,000 year old Sumerian text no problem, so why is the Qu’ran illegible?)

    The world needs to stop pandering. We should use scientific theory and fact to make it embarrassing to say you’re a practicing Muslim. In the same way Christians always seem to have to apologize.

    • Nic Glancy

      We can only hope, I think, our only tactic is to confront the “this isn’t Islam’ers ” with a very real “actually it is”, with facts, until the politicians actually understand and accept what ideology we’re dealing with.

      • William Matthews

        I think we’ve tried that. I think we need to de-fang the whole religion, not just argue theologically. Theology is broadly speaking, just a collection of excuses.

        • Nic Glancy

          I had an exhausting exchange within a Facebook comments page of the Sky news regarding some activities of IS and their,shall we say partners handbook, it wasn’t pleasant, it was filled with deflections and strictly home truths but the there is a point you get to where they cannot dispute their views and it is a way for the ignorant to be more informed. Baby steps I guess

          • Nic Glancy

            https://www.facebook.com/skynews/posts/1237353959612532
            Don’t know if I can link but you’ll be surprised the positive response of the general public, is does look a little bit harsh but it is a very harsh subject to agree with

            • William Matthews

              …sadly Facebook is blocked for me.

              • Nic Glancy

                It’s was a real eye opener, the sheer delusion I guess, even deceitful, but when you get down to the core as some in the know are aware. It isn’t pleasant for the non believer. A harsh truth

              • flipkipper

                Oh the irony of it all. Can we blame Leveson for this?

                • William Matthews

                  My privacy was invaded once too often 😉

                • flipkipper

                  I sincerely hope you seek and then receive the justice you deserve 😉

    • Conway

      Muslims will never apologise in the same way Christians always seem to have to apologise. The answer lies in your opening lines. Muslims don’t care what infidels think – kuffars are lower than cattle, after all, and muslims follow the “perfect man” by engaging in jihad and all the other anti-Western antics. Christians have been taught that the meek shall inherit the earth and that they should turn the other cheek. The two are like oil and water. There is no way they will mix.

  • rationality

    We’re not going to get anywhere until we admit who really controls the West. We’ve been waiting for a long time now and I think its obvious that they will never stop the Islamic invasion or admit to its violence. We have no defence from Christianity, no political party, no mainstream media or public figure. Our immune system has been destroyed.

    Anyone would think there is anti European agenda going on. Oh wait there is.

    • Jaria1

      People that study the bible say that a Muslim invasion is foretold , there will be a fight and the Muslims will lose.
      However I seem to recall that this has already happened and they got as far as the Loire before they were finally defeated.
      I hasten to add that that my knowledge is very sketchy on this matter

      • hedgemagnet

        That’s a pity because I wouldn’t mind knowing where in the NT that’s been prophesied, as I find these Christian/Muslim eschatology myths fascinating. The best thing we can all do as rational grown-ups though is to not let them become self-fullfilling.

        • Jaria1

          I will make a point of finding out for you.
          I won’t waste each other’s time questioning your take on the bible or religon

        • Jaria1

          I’m told revelations where it states any future prophet will be false.

  • Lickkylick

    It’s a War, no politician wants to admit defeat, unfortunately they have already ‘conceaded’ two thirds of Europe, they don’t want to endure the final humiliation of being led to the ‘chopping block’ weeping and wailing by their Islamic masters.

  • Nic Glancy

    The regressive left and political correctness attitude of some serves nothing and no one but the suppression of the facts surrounding Islam, it is in its very nature anti freedom and anti free speech. If they want to argue their points, let them. The sooner it’s accepted the sooner it can be be challenged.

  • Icebow

    ‘Moderate Islam’ is the perversion, simply in being a version.

  • http://batman-news.com/ Whizjet

    That 85% of supposedly peace loving Muslims all have a vote.
    QED.

    • Jaria1

      Yes Whizjet and 90% use it and vote the way they are told to vote.
      That as opposed to about 40% of the general population who spread their vote between other party’s .
      No wonder they are so well represented

      • Conway

        The way the postal votes have been weighed rather than counted in recent elections, it would not be surprising to find 110% of them had voted!

        • Jaria1

          It’s a way of life to cheat and bribe etc. Our politicians make the mistake of treating them with the same standards as the average Brit.

  • teigitur

    The answer to your question is no.

  • Zalacain

    “Will politicians finally admit that the Paris attacks had something to do with Islam?”Politicians will say whatever they think will get them elected.

    • Mary Ann

      If this column represents the people of Britain then politicians would all be telling us how awful Muslims are and how they are going to chuck them out of Britain, but hang on, they are not saying that, so does this column not represent the people or are politicians not nearly as bad as they are painted, contributors can’t have it both ways.

      • Nic Glancy

        How about their thinking, their God is backwards, the person who guides their jihad whether politically or by the sword is not compatible with society. Discussing cannot be stopped out of fear or simply because we disapprove just like they could

      • Geo

        Why would there be any obligation on this column to represent the people? It represents only the writer’s opinion.

      • Jaria1

        Good try but it’s nothing like that at all if you would pause and think . Politicians as Zalacain has just said that politicians are careful not to say anything that might lose them votes. I’ve constantly said the Muslim vote is strong due to the high percentage turn out and voting for the same candidate. We on the other hand spread our votes and about 40% of us turn out to their 80%.
        Just look up the percentage of population and see how well they are represented in Councils and Westminster.

  • Blindsideflanker

    No, there is no limit to the delusion the political establishment will engage in. Their fate is inexorably tied to multiculturalism and the religion of peace for even with the flexible values of our politicians, about turning on this would be even too much for them.

    • telemachus

      My problem is that carping on this further radicalises the young of Southall and Sparkbrook
      *
      It is at times like this that we must embrace our 2.6 million Muslim brethren
      And integrate them into our dynamic multi-ethnic, multifaith and yes multicultural society

      • saffrin

        Bin there tried that.
        That’s how they got away with raping our children was it not?

      • Blindsideflanker

        “And integrate them into our dynamic multi-ethnic, multifaith and yes multicultural society”

        Integrate them into multiculturalism ? I am sorry but that is a meaningless statement.

        • telemachus

          Near where I live is a multicultural centre where we all interact
          Yet each group is able to maintain ther traditions
          Interestingly the Pakistanis and Arabs are keen to have their own events but join us all in our melting pot events

          • Jaria1

            Do you all sit together or are females separated.

            • telemachus

              Very good point
              But no segregation

              • Jaria1

                How long do you think that modernisation will take to spread to prayers at the Mosques?

            • Sue Smith

              I’ve seen them in Vienna – the men with their wives dutifully following in those long tents, 5 paces behind. I emulated the voice of the compere on a game show like “The Price is Right” and say to my husband, “It’s a new cow (car!)”.

              In May this year on a tram in Vienna we were sitting near a muslim family. The woman was wearing one of those oppressive coats buttoned to the ground. The bottom one had come undone and her 7 y/o son bend across the aisle of the tram (unspoken) to do it up for her. It sent a shiver down my spine!!

          • Andrew

            Islam is the enemy of multiculturalism. Even the pillar of Islam concerning a pilgrimage to Mecca, is linked into going around the black rock and simulating the destruction of the idols of another civilisation, A motivation to cultural and physical destruction across the world – e.g. 9/11.

          • hepworth

            You’re a plain and simple traitor and fool to boot mucus.

            • Mary Ann

              That is just plain silly, how many Muslims do you actually know?

              • hepworth

                I lived in a muslim country for 3 years, can you match that “lady”?

                • Sue Smith

                  We want names and addresses!!!

          • TheJustCity

            As has been observed, when Islam is part of a multicultural project it becomes, in effect, bi-culturalism: Muslims vs everyone else.

        • Conway

          They don’t do multiculturalism; it’s submission or death.

        • UKSteve

          Perhaps it should be “Indoctrinate into….”?

      • Jaria1

        Are you really saying we should not discuss the actions of Muslims in the UK and the rest of the world?
        We did more than embrace them when they came over and it’s they that have caused their unpopularity by their behaviour
        The answer lies with these Muslims you talk of. It’s their job to control those that cause friction if they did convince their activists that they are the cause of hostility due to their behaviour towards their hosts then life would be much easier for all concerned.
        Other countries would have slung them out by now. Sure way of getting rid of trouble

      • Hugh1

        Any person of whatever faith or culture would be insane to wish to integrate into the world you inhabit.

      • Itinerant

        When a substantial percentage actively oppose integration- what do you do?
        When a substantial proportion wish to impose Sharia law on non-Muslims- what do you do?
        As for multikulti ideology- it is not only extremist but insanely naive and divisive.
        Islamists love gullible ‘progressives’ because they’re so useful and multikulti is the almost the perfect vehicle, to hide their supremacist agenda.
        Here’s a New Year’s resolution for you Tele- WAKE UP!

        • Adam Carter

          As I type it is 2.07pm.
          Any guesses as to how long it will take telemachus to answer your questions?
          His answers, if he offers any at all, might be interesting, or more likely exasperating.

          • hepworth

            You were right Adam.

        • telemachus

          You work on it Itinerant
          You do not despair
          Our country became great by embracing all comers from Claudius on

          • Adam Carter

            Well done tele, a quick reply.
            Basically you are saying that WE must work on it, i.e it is OUR fault.
            Thank you.
            You rarely disappoint those who have come to know your writings.

            • telemachus

              That is correct
              They are a minority
              If you wish to induce a bunker mentality, you do what Douglas Murray suggests
              In other words you either ignore them or verbally abuse them
              There is another way

              • Adam Carter

                I reject your idea that WE should change to accommodate THEM.
                They should change to fit in with our culture or they should leave.

                • Nic Glancy

                  Their religion will not change, it is unchangeable and it is indisputable .
                  That is the problem we face

                • telemachus

                  The Murray solution
                  More radicalisation
                  More Paris style debacles
                  We have armed police on the streets of London this very day to counter the consequences of such views

                • Adam Carter

                  No.
                  We have armed police on the streets to counter the consequences of people following the example of m*h***ad.

                • telemachus

                  You see
                  You compound the problem
                  That is the language of incitement that has induced catastrophe

                • Nic Glancy

                  Blame the hate filled book, 1400 years of expansion

                • hepworth

                  If we were in the 2nd world war you would be a member of the Vichy government or would be broadcasting as lord Haw Haw.

                • Harryagain

                  The catastrophe is induced by the koran.

                • Andrew

                  Blaming the victims. Less Islamic migration, means less Islamic terror.
                  Terror can be inspired from the Koran itself, so that does need to be challenged.

                • Mary Ann

                  Daesh want us to be frightened and they are succeeding. Trump has given into them, our part in beating Daesh is not to give into their propaganda and the hatred they encourage.

                • Harryagain

                  At some point there will be civil war.
                  Us the native Brits must win and drive the evil cult back to the place the came from.
                  This is inevitable.
                  The later it happens, the worse things will be.
                  History repeats itself.
                  As happened in Spain and the Balkans.

                • hepworth

                  No pal, we have armed police on our streets BECAUSE of islam.
                  (I refuse to capitalise islam out of principal).

                • King Kibbutz

                  So, let’s get this straight.
                  Radicalisation has nothing whatever to do with the intrinsic aggression at the heart of the ‘religion of peace’?
                  If only we would ’embrace’ them, whatever that means, then we would see a blossoming and a coming together of all?
                  They are not interested in my embrace. Nothing short of submission or extermination will satisfy their mission.

              • hepworth

                “Minority”? are you stark raving mucus?
                You really are a fool.

              • King Kibbutz

                That other way, it has been tried since the 1950s and has got us to where we are. Fail.

          • UKSteve

            No it didn’t, troll-cret1n. It became great because of the Victorian era and the Industrial Revolution.

            Mass immigration only started here from 1948, and has done almost nothing whatsoever for the country, on those terms.

          • Sue Smith

            Became, yes, but is no more.

            • telemachus

              Remains

              • Sue Smith

                Priceless!!!

          • Itinerant

            British History is a rather more bloody affair than ’embraces’ Tele- besides the only thing I despair of is gullible and naive ‘progressives’.

          • sfin

            Not even close to this scale they didn’t.

            The number of countries, worldwide, who have successfully integrated a muslim population, when it passes 5% of the total population, is zero.

        • Nic Glancy

          I think to understand the situation, you have to look at the history , population trends, political Islam, and the spread of Islam. The 3 caliphates prior and subsequently and ultimately the teachings of Mohammed.
          To even indicate this is anything that western society has contributed to is to be ignorant of political and cultural jihad.
          To not name the terror which is emulating, to the letter , the Quran by its name indicates that something is, I hazard to say, making us submit.
          To look at the undisputed word of Mohammed, and look what is demanded and the trends of the followers of Mohammed might give you a better idea of whether there is compatibility with the way western society lives.
          I also would emplore you to look at very real lessons and codes of conduct approved to religiously deceive you.
          Please don’t be ignorant to the spread, via taqqiya and kitman, and what is asked of Islam.
          There is a reason why a movement of Muslims within Islam are looking , hopelessly at reformation for the sake of avoiding inevitable. Jihad.
          Sorry if this seems extreme, it isn’t.

          • Itinerant

            I think perhaps you missed the rhetoric nature of some of my questions to Tele.

            I am all too aware of supremacist and expansionist nature of the ideology, contained in scripture and codified in Sharia.

            President Sisi has implored the scholars of Al-Azhar, again, for reform but the Mufti wont even declare ISIS heretics- the literal interpretation required is a gigantic handbrake on reform and development in the Islamic world, since arguably the 11th century- I just don’t see where reform will come from or is even possible at all.

            Unfortunately the ‘noble lie’ Murray refers to and our ‘leaders’ refusal to confront jihad and its pivotal role within Islam , combined with the mechanics of the EurIslam social engineering works , only makes things worse for reform or secular minded Muslims and by extension, everyone else too.

            • Nic Glancy

              So in my opinion , we need to empower the people , so they are not going be succeptsble to multicutlruism which has no benefit to any of us or our kids, which on oh seeks to benefit the examsion of Islam.. I am not attempting to do anything but wise up to the realities. In a very public risky non pc way, because it doesn’t help anyone other than the Uncriticisables…

            • Jaria1

              I can recall when the first wave of Muslims came to be noticed and how people were so impressed by the service and politeness of the Muslim corner shop proprietor , open all hours and nothing was too much trouble.
              What happened?
              I did hear that their children having seen the amount of work and small reward to be made on these Corner shops was of no interest to them , meanwhile the country opened its doors to anyone and the Muslim population multiplied to an extent that their confidence increased to behave as they do world wide when there are enough of them.During this time people have protested at their increasing bad behaviour whilst the governments have chosen to turn a blind eye to the growing problem.
              I’ve put it down to their voting power, I know Gordon Brown stated all these immigrants would be grateful to Labour.
              Clinton had a similar idea on mortgages and the blacks and his party was rewarded to the extent that any Republican candidate will find success an uphill struggle

              • Sue Smith

                It all smacks of a sort of politically correct “Open All Hours”.

                • Jaria1

                  We see it differently. I see it as people prepared to work hard and give good service .
                  Something sadly lacking in large parts of the U.K. Where Socialism has blunted this type of person

                • Sue Smith

                  I was trying to be funny!!

                • Jaria1

                  Sorry Sue , humour isn’t often found on these boards. I’ve tried it often enough!

                • Sue Smith

                  Well, that IS depressing. About the only thing we can do about our world is laugh about it as most other responses seem to have failed.

                  And I’m a great believer that ridicule and satire can destroy, over time, any political movement, ideology or cultural movement. I’m still remembering the power of “Animal Farm”.

                • Jaria1

                  Can’t argue with something I agree with

                • Sue Smith

                  Great to hear it. We should stick together, we iconoclasts and thinkers.

                • UKSteve

                  And auto-didacts! 🙂

              • sfin

                I think you’ll find that the industrious corner shop owner was either Hindu or Sikh.

                You make a telling point, though re the generational difference.

                The same has happened here in France. The first wave of Arab immigrants were treated appallingly and yet, by and large, all they wanted to do was to integrate and be ‘French’. Some of the most fiercely patriotic frenchmen and frenchwomen, I know come from that generation. It’s a completely different story with the second and third generation – adopting “traditional” dress and beards (a very recent affectation), supporting Algeria/ Tunisia/ Morocco at football etc, etc. It’s almost like a gang mentality defined by race, and above all religion.

                These generations have completely abandoned any notion of statehood – they define themselves as muslim – c’est tout!

                • Jaria1

                  That’s possible and those people as you say didn’t broadcast which religon they belonged to ( headdress excepted).
                  The unacceptable aspect of some Muslims is that they hate the country that they live in and the extremist element will harm us and support those that do.
                  I do blame governments for not taking action against these people as they have taken it as a signal that their increasing militancy goes without punishment. A few expulsions would have reminded them that we are not so soft on them.
                  The French are to be applauded for making a stand on the Burka ?

                • sfin

                  I’ll admit that the evidence for my first paragraph was anecdotal…

                  An old colleague of mine, from Bradford (indigenous) used to go on about how he” hated Pakistanis”. Eventually I challenged him, along the lines of: “Aren’t you generalising a bit, old chap, slighting our former brethren from the jewel in the crown – the Indian sub continent?”

                  He replied along the lines of: “Nowt wrong with Indians – they work hard and they make fine Yorkshiremen – it’s the bl**dy Pakistanis…”. He went on to recite instances which have only recently become apparent to our MSM – the grooming gangs, the women who didn’t speak a word of English, the takeover of districts which became ghettos…This was in the early 1990’s and it was a shock to me then – cosseted as I was in, largely indigenous, North Yorkshire.

                  Suffice to say – I’m no longer shocked.

          • sfin

            Above all the history of its spread…

            Dr Bill Warner makes a compelling case that it was the spread (by conquest) of Islam into Western Europe, that was the actual cause of the dark ages.

            Here’s the clip:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

            • Nic Glancy

              yes extremely well informed anslysis I saw a while back. Very important if you try not to read too much into the Christian narrative but of course it’s definitely an eye opener

        • Icebow

          I wonder whether he might be a double troll, who has always voted Tory.

          • Itinerant

            That or someone with a compulsive opposition disorder and a fetish for straw men.

      • Jack Smith

        So we should embrace these people, eh? We should do whatever may be necessary to make diversity work? So if you had to choose between industrial-scale recreational child-rape, breast ironing, FGM, honour killings, the collapse of trust and social cohesion, plummeting education standards, soldiers being beheaded in the streets, mass riots and looting, overburdened infrastructure, welfare, health services and schools, the need to spend £billions on counter terrorism, the destruction of communities, environmental degradation, the erosion of faith in the law and public institutions, the re-emergence of TB and other diseases and exploding airports and public transport – which aspect of diversity would you say you liked best?

      • Andrew

        Appeasement has been tried and you are making the classic cultural relativist mistake of assuming all ideologies are equal, “so” they must all be the same. The idea of reciprocation comes from a belief in a common humanity which does not exist in the Medina phase of the Koran. Actually it is opposite, effectively defining non believers and sub-humans. Why would somebody following an ideology based on “the book says it so we do it” care a fig for what an unbeliever says or does?!

      • Mary Ann

        Nothing like stirring up hate to make more hate, Every time a woman in a hijab is attacked in the street the perpetrators are playing into the hands of Daesh.

        • Nic Glancy

          That is appeasement and not tackling the issue, blaming the victim of a backwards ideology

          • Nic Glancy

            Surely you can see that’s not the main issue, if someone is if that mindset then it is against everything this country stands for, it’s backwards , and therefore we can’t go forward

          • Mary Ann

            We could at least win the propaganda war, by treating innocent Muslim women with the same respect we accord to other women, try to imagine how you would hate someone who attacked your sister or your mother because of what she was wearing.

            • Jaria1

              Do you mean raping young Muslim girls?
              Even they would know raping young white girls in our cities is not popular with the locals

            • hepworth

              Perhaps she should not be wearing it then??

            • Sue Smith

              Muslim women are treated with respect in the western world; it’s only their own people who disrespect them. Sorry to disturb your utopian views, but it is 2016.

        • Jaria1

          Simple solution do not wear inappropriate clothing . as you know they have a much more direct way of dealing with it in their homelands.

          • UKSteve

            There is actually no call in the Quran for a woman to wear anything on her head:

            “Dress Code for Believers*

            Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them. God is fully cognisant of everything they do.

            And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to God, O you believers, that you may succeed.”* (24:30-31)

            *24:30-31 Dressing modestly, therefore, is a trait of the believing men and women. The minimum requirements for a woman’s dress is to lengthen her garment (33:59) and to cover her chest. Tyrannical Arab traditions have given a false impression that a woman must be covered from head to toe; such is not a Quranic or Islamic dress. — by Dr. Rashad Khalifa, who provided one of the most respected translations.

            • Linda Smith

              I find it interesting to see girls in hijabs wearing skin tight trousers when I visit my shopping mall in London.

        • hepworth

          Pr*t.

        • Sue Smith

          Stop it; I’m crying.

      • hepworth

        “the young of Southall and Sparkbrook” are a big part of the problem mucus. The solution is to stop pandering to these people and recognise this plain and simple fact.

      • King Kibbutz

        Now then, are you arguing for integration or for multiculturalism? It’s just, they don’t sit together at all well.

        • Jaria1

          Forget integration ! You must have heard what a Muslim families reaction is if their daughter wants to marry an infidel!

      • UKSteve

        “My problem is that carping on this further radicalises the young of Southall and Sparkbrook…”

        Proof please!

        (Now watch him disappear from Disqus for a week or so; he’s never provided any yet!)

        • Sue Smith

          He’s probably gone over to prepare the Discus for the next Olympic games.

          • UKSteve

            LOL – yep!

  • Malcolm Stevas

    No, they won’t.

    • flipkipper

      Some pretend-Quakers just won’t stop quacking will they?

      • Malcolm Stevas

        Your attention-seeking is so transparent, it’s pitiful. Leave politics to grown-ups. Go away and squeeze your zits – and stop upticking yourself with fake personae, something that’s even more pitiful.

        • flipkipper

          Perhaps I have your attention and the time is now right for you to engage with the argument and reflect on it, kipnut. What you cannot say is that an argument had not yet been presented to you numerous times already. You are up to the neck in it, init mate.

          • King Kibbutz

            This argument. Where? What?

            • eat your greens

              Dogsnob – are you joining the long list of leftards on this blog.

              Yes.
              No.

              • King Kibbutz

                What’s a leftard in your book?

          • eat your greens

            The leftards are a bit slow in the uptake. Best to ignore them.
            DNFTT.

    • hepworth

      They won’t if our media obsessed “citizens” wake up and smell the coffee.

  • King Kibbutz

    Not for a while yet. More must die.

    • flipkipper

      Kinky Boots aka Femme Fataliste has spoken.

      • King Kibbutz

        Spoken as observation, not the prescription you might like people to hear.

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