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Exclusive: ‘unspun’ Jeremy Corbyn used an old speech rejected by Miliband

29 September 2015

5:02 PM

29 September 2015

5:02 PM

On its own terms, I imagine Jeremy Corbyn’s speech to the Labour conference can be considered tolerably acceptable. Much of it, after all, consisted of time-served bromides with which almost no-one could reasonably disagree. It was a Marx and apple-pie speech that omitted most of Marx. And who dislikes pie?

Nevertheless, what was new was not good and what was good was not new. Much of it, actually, was not new at all. I can disclose that a significant chunk of Corbyn’s speech was, in its essentials, written many years ago. Not by Corbyn, of course, but by the writer Richard Heller.

Mr Heller (with whom I should say I have played cricket in the past) has been offering his speech to various Labour leaders since the days of Neil Kinnock. Four years ago, he offered Ed Miliband this unsolicited advice. As best I can tell, Miliband ignored him – as previous Labour leaders had. So Heller posted his words on his website, a well of leftie rhetoric free to anyone who may want to use it.  It seems that Corbyn (or his speechwriters) have been happy to draw upon this well. Let’s compare and contrast this speech with Heller’s words from four years ago (emphasis added).

To wit, Corbyn said this afternoon:

Since the dawn of history in virtually every human society there are some people who are given a great deal and many more people who are given little or nothing.  Some people have property and power, class and capital, status and clout which are denied to the many.  

And time and time again, the people who receive a great deal tell the many to be grateful to be given anything at all. They say that the world cannot be changed and the many must accept the terms on which they are allowed to live in it.

And Heller said:

Since the dawn of history, in virtually every human society there are some people who are given a great deal and many more people who are given little or nothing. Some people have property and power, class and capital, status and even sanctity, which are denied to the multitude. And time and time again, the people who receive a great deal tell the multitude to be grateful to be given anything at all. They say that the world cannot be changed and the multitude must accept the terms on which they are allowed to live in it.

[Alt-Text]


Now back to Corbyn:

These days this attitude is justified by economic theory. The many with little or nothing are told they live in a global economy whose terms cannot be changed. They must accept the place assigned to them by competitive markets.

By the way, isn’t it curious that globalisation always means low wages for poor people, but is used to justify massive payments to top chief executives.

Our Labour Party came into being to fight that attitude. That is still what our Labour Party is all about. Labour is the voice that says to the many, at home and abroad: “you don’t have to take what you’re given.”

And Heller wrote:

 The multitudes with little or nothing are told that they live in a global economy whose terms cannot be changed: they must accept the place assigned to them by competitive markets.

“The Labour Party came into being to fight that attitude. That is still what the Labour Party is all about. Labour is the voice that says to the multitude, at home and abroad: ‘you don’t have to take what you’re given.’ 

Back to Corbyn’s speech. He then said:

Labour says:

“You may be born poor but you don’t have to stay poor. You don’t have to live without power and without hope. You don’t have to set limits on your talent and your ambition – or those of your children.”

“You don’t have to accept prejudice and discrimination, or sickness or poverty, or destruction and war. You don’t have to be grateful to survive in a world made by others.  No, you set the terms for the people in power over you, and you dismiss them when they fail you.” 

That’s what democracy is about. That has always been our Labour Party’s message. You don’t have to take what you’re given.

It was the great Nigerian writer Ben Okri who perhaps put it best:  “The most authentic thing about us is our capacity to create, to overcome, to endure, to transform, to love”.

But Corbyn’s words owed less to Nigerian aphoristists than they did to Heller:

“Labour says: ‘you may be born poor but you don’t have to stay poor. You don’t have to live without power and without hope. You don’t have to set limits on your talent and your ambition – or those of your children.You don’t have to accept prejudice and discrimination, or sickness or destitution, or destruction and war. You don’t have to be grateful to survive in a world made by others. No, you set the terms for the people in power over you, and you dismiss them when they fail you.’

“That has always been Labour’s message. You don’t have to take what you’re given.”

Then Corbyn said:

But they’re at it again. The people who want you to take what you’re given. This Tory government.  This government which was made by the few – and paid for by the few.

Since becoming leader David Cameron has received £55 million in donations from hedge funds. From people who have a lot and want to keep it all.

And this is what Heller advised:

“They’re at it again. The people who want you to take what you’re given. This Tory-led government. This government which was made by the few – and paid by the few. Before the last election David Cameron’s received £x millions in donations from just y people. People to whom much had been given and who wanted to keep it.

Fill in the Xs! Very New Politics. Corbyn continues:

That is why this pre-paid government came into being.  

To protect the few and tell all the rest of us to accept what we’re given.  To deliver the £145 million tax break they have given the hedge funds in return.  

They want us to believe there is no alternative to cutting jobs.

Slashing public services. Vandalising the NHS. Cutting junior doctor’s pay. Reducing care for the elderly.Destroying the hopes of young people for a college education or putting university graduates into massive debt. Putting half a million more children in poverty.

They want the people of Britain to accept all of these things. They expect millions of people to work harder and longer for a lower quality of life on lower wages. Well, they’re not having it. Our Labour Party says no.  The British people never have to take what they are given.  

Corbyn certainly knows all about taking what he is given. These are the words he was given by (or, rather, took from) Heller:-

“That is why this Tory-led government came into being. To protect the few and tell all the rest of us to accept what we’re given. David Cameron and George Osborne want us to believe that there is no alternative to cutting jobs, slashing public services, vandalizing the NHS, attacking pensions, reducing care for the elderly. Destroying the hopes of young people for a college education – or a decent job afterwards if they do manage to get one. They want the British people to accept all of these things. They expect millions of people to work harder and longer for a lower quality of life. They want families to accept more stress and hardship and whole communities to accept destruction.

“Labour says no. You don’t have to accept any of these things. No one has to take what they’re given from David Cameron and George Osborne.”

Fair enough and nowt wrong with borrowing (and I’m pretty sure Heller, though likely surprised will not object), even if you might think the ‘new politics’ might place at least a small premium on originality. Then again, Mr Heller did say in 2011 that his remarks were available to others, albeit upon application.

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Show comments
  • http://www.iandsmith.com ID Smith

    Why is the government giving £45m to Roman Abramovich while letting a British steelworks go to the wall?

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  • Peter Gilkes

    How absolutely desperate ‘you lot’ are to vilify this man chosen by ordinary people to lead their party. All this for a man that ‘you lot’ say is unelectable and is 4 1/2 years from definitely losing. You are old maids looking under the bed – hoping to find an intruder there. Grow up.

  • vanessa beeson

    Even if this is true, does it really matter? WE have been ruled by right wing politics since Thatcher was PM. Tony Blair moving labour to the right was one of her greatest achievements! ‘New’ labour being ‘right’ labour. So this if any part of this speech is old, it will be as relevant in 2015 as it was in 1980. We haven’t had a true labour government since 79. So what’s the problem? Why reinvent the wheel?!

  • Sue Smith

    Love the Hitler salute, btw.

  • http://www.iandsmith.com ID Smith

    Love it. Thanks. Don’t stop RTing. “To protect the few and tell all the rest of us to accept what we’re given. To deliver the £145 million tax break they have given the hedge funds in return.”

  • http://www.iandsmith.com ID Smith

    Thanks, guys. Keep repeating our best lines, especially “Some people have property and power, class and capital, status and clout which are denied to the many”

    • Sean L

      Yes and none more so than in the countries that have actually implemented the kind of socialism advocated by Corbyn, which concentrates economic and political power to a degree that is quasi-feudal in its inequality. Feel free to point to any socialist experiment that hasn’t brought about economic collapse and tyranny; or where the few, the Party, haven’t profited at the expense of the many, ‘the people’.

      • http://www.iandsmith.com ID Smith

        Thank you for a lecture on the past, but I do know socialism is dead and buried. Corbyn has suggested a viable alternative to the few having property and power, class and capital, status and clout which are denied to the many. £340 billion was spent printing money to save the few with none of the ill-effects that are supposed to accompany such leftish ventures. Yet when ‘Trotskyite’ Corbyn talks about printing money for the people, there’s uproar, asteroids are going to drop out of the sky. So who are the tyrants now? “And time and time again, the people who receive a great deal tell
        the many to be grateful to be given anything at all.” Keep talking about what Corbyn said. People might see what’s going on.

  • Wessex Man

    The privately educated Compo Corbyn has nothing to offer the British, it was like watching the slow suicide of a once respectable political party.

  • Alan Newman

    This is a non-issue, he was offered a passage to use in his speech, he liked it, it was consistent with the message he wanted to convey.

    Obviously he made a good choice because it led to one of the multiple standing ovations he was given during the speech.

    The author of the line has gone on record* saying he offered it and was delighted that it was chosen to be used. Where is the story in all of this?

    *http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/29/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader-conference-speech

  • Simon Rowe

    Telegraph says “Much of speech from Heller” – yea, about 5%, so that’s “Much” as in “Not Much”. Also, have I moved to a different planet or do Cameron et al write all their own speeches now, rather than engage with professional speech writers?
    What matters here is intent and belief – I’m no Labour afficionado, but I find Corbyn has a breath of fresh air. I am quite sure the parts of Heller he used are a genuine reflection of what he believes.
    Seems the press can’t stand anyone who stands up to them.

  • Kennie

    according to the DT, it was a Neil Kinnock speech.
    According to a bloke on Sky news, it was neither. Can you critics not get your briefings from Downing Street correct?

  • e2toe4

    IN the photo shoot *Working on the speech* he was just making sure every *many* was changed into *multitude*?

  • Jacques Strap

    More like he used a four year old to write it….

  • Sean L

    Wasn’t he supposed to be a new type of authentic politician, eschewing the spin and chicanery of his predecessors? But all he comes up with is this confected twaddle originally written for the phony former leader he’s supposed to be the “change” from!

  • Josh Danby

    I’m less concerned with the speech’s source and more concerned with it’s accuracy, in which case I think both versions are making some very good points.
    And while we’re on the subject of “old hat”, is no one else more bothered that you can use an X + Y insert-the-corruption formula to point out Tory hypocrisy at any given point in time? “What’s David Cameron privatising this week? Ah, dependable as ever.”

  • McRobbie

    You may be born poor but you don’t have to stay poor as poverty is a relative term and the left will ensure all people will be equally poor…..Equality of poverty is there for the giving….and the raving luddite loony left led by “kind” corbyn will give you that equality.

    • Cue Bono

      Exactly. The best way to escape poverty is to work hard and improve yourself. Not hope for an increase in benefits.

    • The Wiganer

      Indeed. All these people we know who were born poor but are now affluent (i’m sure you know lots like I do) are just a part of our false consciousness.

  • rtj1211

    Well, Ed Miliband’s ‘One Nation Labour’ was stolen directly from a spoof speech I wrote for David Cameron in 2011. Go on, ask William Hague, I know he read it……

  • Hegelman

    Heller himself says:

    “”I sent it to Team Corbyn as I have sent it to each and every Labour
    leader before him. I am very proud of that passage. I had no idea they
    were going to use it until today, but I am delighted that they have. It
    is a very fine passage. I sent it by post two weeks ago, to the leader
    of the opposition’s office.

    I offered it to him as Labour leader, because I felt it was a passage applicable to anyone with the values of the Labour party. I also published it on my website, probably about four years ago. It may look like they took it from there but that isn’t the case and to say it was stolen or plagiarised is nonsense.”

    • Cue Bono

      So. Corbyn is sitting in his red socks and sandals wondering what to put in his speech when this four year old nonsense drops through his letter box saving him the bother. That’s okay then.

  • Hegelman

    So?

    Politicians all use speech writers.

    • David Belcher

      You’re right. But Heller isn’t Corbyn’s speechwriter so if a stranger posts chunks of text and Corbyn uses them all it’s of interest, especially if the source is kept secret until this newspaper flushes it out. It’s of interest to know who Richard Heller is and what his ideas are because we don’t know what Corbyn stands for other than ‘stop the world, I want to get off’ rantings.

      • Hegelman

        Heller says:

        “I offered it to him as Labour leader, because I felt it was a passage
        applicable to anyone with the values of the Labour party. I also
        published it on my website, probably about four years ago. It may look like they took it from there but that isn’t the case and to say it was stolen or plagiarised is nonsense.”

        • Cue Bono

          This seems to be bothering you quite a bit. LOL

  • King Zog

    So if Corbyn becomes PM and Biden becomes POTUS we’ll have a whole new basis for the special relationship.

  • CraigStrachan

    Good catch, Mr Massie. (By rights, this should be quite devastating for Corbyn).

    • Chris Judge

      Yeah – really devastating – the speech was given with the author’s permission – he sent it to Corbyn – do keep up.

      • CraigStrachan

        A four-year-old speech, right.

        • Chris Judge

          some essential truths last more than 4 years

          • No Man’s Land

            Hahahaha

          • CraigStrachan

            Couldn’t he just have dusted off an old Kinnock speech then. Maybe the one where he took on Hatton and Militant? Oh, wait…

        • David Belcher

          It’s actually older, apparently Heller has been hawking it to every Labour leader since Kinnock. All rejected it until now.

          • Cue Bono

            Pulled Jezbollah out of a hole though, so that’s okay then.

        • Jacques Strap

          A speech for a four year old

  • Mynydd

    A lot of words that said nothing, it’s not the Spectator of old

  • entropy’s enemy

    Will this post be updated to include the news that Heller offered the speech to Corbyn? Because that seems relevant. That update should probably go at the top, and not at the bottom.

    • Paul Robson

      Even more relevant that they didn’t mention it until caught ….

      • David Belcher

        Bingo. They were flushed out by The Speccie

    • The Wiganer

      And he offered it to Kinnock, Smith, Blair, Brown and Milliband. They said no.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Still can’t spell M I L I B A N D ?
        What a M U P P E T !

        • Labour Mole Catcher

          Ed Miliband is Jack’s lover and they like each other’s anatomies!

  • Cue Bono

    Ha, ha, ha, ha this needs to be in every newspaper tomorrow morning!

  • David Belcher

    Good work Alex Massie.

    Funny how Corbyn name-checked Nigerian writers and American poets in his speech but when he copy-pasted huge chunks from a Briton he didn’t give them any credit.

    • Cue Bono

      Excellent point.

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      that’s more ridiculous double standards

    • Kampalaobserver

      “It was the great Nigerian writer Ben Okri who perhaps put it best: “The most authentic thing about us is our capacity to create, to overcome, to endure, to transform, to love”.”

      Irony: the sentence he creates is a quote about being authentic by creating.
      That sentence being surrounded by stuff he pinched.

    • James McGlone

      Ah right. So, from now on we’ll be expecting politicians to name-check their speech-writers?

      What’s wrong with you people?

  • Fencesitter

    Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase “free speech”, doesn’t it?

    I don’t think plagiarism of this sort is excusable in any sphere of life. The writer should have been offered payment for his work, then this story would not have existed.

  • Cath Ferguson

    “That has always been our Labour Party’s message. You don’t have to take what you’re given.”

    Except for voters in Scotland…

    • The_greyhound

      If Scotland wants to pay for its public services, it can have its independence tomorrow. But of course nippy-sweetie, practised liar and hypocrite, will carry on warbling her nationalist nonsense while cringing away from another referendum. Scotland gets a remarkably good deal from the English taxpayer – but like all parasites the pathetic SNP is composed entirely of ungrateful whingers.

      • Paul Robson

        I find it amusing how the Corbyn fans behave *exactly* like the Cybernats do …

  • mickey667

    Heller gave him the passages to use for fuck;s sake.

    The media are becoming a parody of themselves

    • Bayesian_Rationalist

      Unfortunately, as seen in this comments section, for instance, they have a gullible and docile audience.

      • Cue Bono

        Fortunately though out in the real world the people can see right through him.

    • David Belcher

      So Corbyn is just reheating a blog from 2011 rather than saying anything new.

      There goes his “authenticity”.

  • Bayesian_Rationalist

    Not at all surprising to see the docile and impressionable amongst the population taking this story at face value. Let’s, however, turn to what the person who wrote this particular passage, Heller, has to say:

    “I sent it to Team Corbyn as I have sent it to each and every Labour
    leader before him. I am very proud of that passage. I had no idea they
    were going to use it until today, but I am delighted that they have. It
    is a very fine passage. I sent it by post two weeks ago, to the leader
    of the opposition’s office.

    I offered it to him as Labour leader, because I felt it was a passage
    applicable to anyone with the values of the Labour party. I also
    published it on my website, probably about four years ago. It may look
    like they took it from there but that isn’t the case and to say it was
    stolen or plagiarised is nonsense.”

    • Cue Bono

      So basically Comrade Corbyn couldn’t be ar*ed to write it himself and then the day is saved by some crap that was written four years ago. New politics you say? Ha, ha ha.

  • Chris Dugdale

    May I suggest that this article is updated with the statement from Heller on this, as obtained by the Guardian?

    “I sent it to Team Corbyn as I have sent it to each and every Labour leader before him. I am very proud of that passage. I had no idea they were going to use it until today, but I am delighted that they have. It is a very fine passage. I sent it by post two weeks ago, to the leader of the opposition’s office.

    I offered it to him as Labour leader, because I felt it was a passage applicable to anyone with the values of the Labour party. I also published it on my website, probably about four years ago. It may look like they took it from there but that isn’t the case and to say it was stolen or plagiarised is nonsense.”

    • Simon Jenkins

      ‘Politician has speech written for him.’ This is a complete non-story, what was the Spectator thinking?

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        they are scraping the barrel. Same as with the women in the top cabinet jobs, same as with supposed ‘purges’ (how many organisations would tolerate the stuff Blairites have been coming up with), same with ‘he never held down a proper job outside Westminster’ (neither has Cameron), and so on

      • Cue Bono

        “Politician has speech written for him four years ago.”

        • Neil Turner

          “Politician has speech written for someone else twenty years ago; hails ‘New Politics’.”

          • Sue Smith

            You didn’t put in the complete title”

            “New Politics: Lenin and Trotsky and the soviet experiment”.

        • Sue Smith

          Shouldn’t that be 44 years ago?

      • The Wiganer

        Er no it wasn’t written for him. It was written for Neil Kinnock.

        Would you let Cameron get away with recycling a rejected Margaret Thatcher speech?

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          you’d love him for it

        • Geoff Walsh

          I’m a real Wiganer, stop talking crap please

      • Caractacus

        Politician claiming that he represents the ‘New Politics’ uses 30 year old speech to proclaim 30 year old failed policies.

        • Sue Smith

          Including all the stage directions!! Priceless.

    • The_greyhound

      So the grauniad confirms that granny corbyn was merely slopping up some warmed over platitudes.

      • Sue Smith

        Who’s been eating my porridge?

    • whs1954

      So? The man and his team are so incompetent they have to cobble together his speech with something written four years ago that is so vacuous, so boilerplate, so unrelated to reality or current affairs, that it can just be scooped up and dumped lock stock and barrel into his speech, hardly one word altered or changed. The fact that the author happily served them up to Corbyn isn’t here or there.

      If I scribble some platitudes and post them to Conservative HQ Cameron’s team are hardly likely to take them up, but if I did, I expect the Corbynistas would be snarking and sneering. What’s sauce for the goose…

  • cakeypig

    So…he used about five minutes worth of an old speech in the middle of an hour long speech? And this is a story? Political journalism reaches new highs…

  • Neil McFarlane

    Shock horror – politician utilises services of speech writer. (Of course Cameron would never dream of doing such a thing.)
    What horrendous scandal will they uncover next?

    • starfish

      ‘Honest Politics’

      One would have thought he might have credited the author of this master work, especially as he is not a member of the leadership team

  • The Meister

    Labour. They love borrowing money and other people’s speeches apparently. The plot weakens….

    • mactheanti

      So it was OK for Cameroink to borrow large chunks of Tony Blair’s speeches?

      • The Meister

        Go on. When, where, etc? I’m vaguely interested.

      • Conway

        The one true thing Cameron has said is that he’s the heir to Blair.

  • mactheanti

    Perhaps rejecting this speech was Miliband’s first big error? Point is that Corbyn thinks this is relevant and I think he is right.

    Where in the other speech was this written?

    “I’ve been given a very large mandate”?

  • andagain

    Well, that’s a pretty good way of demonstrating continuity.

  • mactheanti

    At least he was guided by a speech made for the Labour party, unlike Cameron who plagiarised large chunks of his speeches from Tony Blair.

    Give over, none of them write their own speeches and they all borrow bits/What is alarming that this could be used 4 years later and the Tories lead by the Pig Pantha are still getting away with their attacks on the poor, disabled etc.

    • The Wiganer

      So David Cameron (two term prime minister) took guidance from Blair (three term prime minister).

      Corbyn borrows a speech that was rejected by Kinnock.

  • http://t.co/rXjomKpfUv JP Janson De Couet

    How very sad the Spectator and its writers are …

    • The Meister

      They seem a rather jolly, affluent, well-regarded crowd to me, running a highly successful magazine.

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      they illustrate very well the type of politics people are sick of. Cheap attacks, soundbites, sneers, smears, cliches…

      they have 5 years to think about what is good about what they are offering. They’ll need that time.

      • The Meister

        “Cheap attacks, soundbites, sneers, smears, cliches…” Well, I hate to say it, but politics has been like this for about 2,000 years or more, maybe longer. It’s the nature of the beast I’m afraid.

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          I think since the time of Blair it’s gone into overdrive. I don’t remember it being quite so bad before.

          • Paul Robson

            You’re just whining because your glorious fuhrer got caught recycling a four year old speech …..
            The nats do this ; anything short of slavishly crawling interview and the mega-whine about abuse starts.

            • Mara Naile-Akim

              yes he was caught doing exactly what everyone else does: reading speeches written by other people

              and that is my whole point. People aren’t stupid, they can see double standards from a mile off.

              • starfish

                “reading speeches written by other people for other people”

                there, fixed that for you

      • Cue Bono

        They illustrate this case of plagiarism very well indeed.

        • Chris Judge

          Really?
          Learn the meaning of words before using them.
          Plagiarism would involve copying something without the author’s permission.
          Apology? Retraction? From you or the sloppy journalist who wrote this.
          I thought not.

          • Cue Bono

            “I thought not.”

            A common ailment among the left.

          • starfish

            plagiarism is usually defined as the practice of taking someone else’s work or ideas and passing them off as one’s own

            given that he failed to credit the author of this speech, and he is someone who is not in his leadership team, I’d say the charge is a fair one

            • Chris Judge

              An intelligent reasoned response – thank you. But political speech writers are almost never acknowledged and so I still think the plagiarism charge is overstated.

      • Sarka

        Well, I know most politicos do not write their own speeches, but I did assume that usually they consult with speechwriters on important speeches to produce something fresh with at least some consistent input from them. Swiping whole long sections from a speech written some time ago for someone else (even if congenial to the person’s views) strikes me as pretty lazy in a politico trying to create his own authoritative image as leader. It’s not a question of the particular politics in this case – I would think the less of any politician of any party who was caught doing it. It’s..er…feeble.

        • Paul Robson

          Corbyn : ” I hold in my hand a piece of paper ,,,, signed by Duke William of Normandy … guaranteeing that Roman Legions will not invade” …..

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Oh, you mean William the Dastarb?

            So, I’m dysletic.

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          nothing’s changed in 4 years though

    • Cue Bono

      They caught your man out very well indeed.

  • davidofkent

    I think the point is that this man is claiming to be a new type of politician, yet has nothing new to say. Of course he hasn’t. What has he said in his 32 years on the back benches that has caused people to think he was the new Messiah?

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      ‘austerity plain old does not work’

      • starfish

        Eh?

        Austerity has not been tried, even though lefties are adamant that we are one step closer to Victorian melodrama

        In fact things are so bad in the UK (food banks, people thrown out on streets, assaults on personal liberty, surveillance state, criminality, tax evasion, brutal exploitation o f workers, ramapant racism etc) that they want to import thousands of migrants to make it worse

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          I heard all this from Communists when I was young. ‘Real communism has not been tried’. Well, that’s for a reason. Same with austerity and other free-market craziness. No matter how much austerity you introduce (even if we consider the Greek levels of it, which led to a 25% contraction in the economy), you can always claim it wasn’t enough because of those pesky people stopping you, but if only they’d go away you would create your wonderful utopia of free-market milk and honey. Or in Britain’s case (our aims being somewhat less lofty) start reducing the debt without going back to the 1930 standards of living for the 10 million at the bottom of society.

          As for migrants, it’s pot and kettle, who was it who decimated the UKBA, tell me please? So Corbyn wants to bring in refugees, and Cameron cuts the agency trusted with stopping criminals coming in. I know which one is more damaging.

          • Paul Robson

            … well there is an obvious stop on “austerity” ; when you have no deficit. When you aren’t borrowing money to print it.

            The argument you use has been used for socialism all over the world ; some socialist utopia screws up (currently, Venezuela) and that’s never “real socialism”.

            If you seriously think the standard of living for the 10 million a the bottom of society (unless you mean non UK society ?) is as it was in the 1930s you must be drunk.

            • Mara Naile-Akim

              that’s my whole point, that the fanatics of austerity are no different from the fanatics of communism in their fundamentalist belief in their model. And the utopian point at which deficit is zero will never arrive, as your economy will contract and decrease revenue.

              as for the 1930’s remark this is not what I said, read again

              • Paul Robson

                1930s standard of living is even stupider.
                We had no deficit in the las years of the 1990s, in fact a small surplus.
                Clueless as every corbynsista.

          • goodsoldier

            They are on the same side when it comes to migrants, all bowing to the EU. They are obedient citizens, like the East Germans of the DDR. They are just vaguely different hors d’oeuvres from the same greasy platter. Merkel and Juncker are in charge as the civil servants well know.

      • con

        what austerity?

    • mactheanti

      It is a guide, a framework and let me tell you that most people wont know or even care who wrote it or when it was written.

      • Cue Bono

        You’re right about that. Most people don’t give a sh!te about Comrade Corbyn beyond the comedy value.

        • goodsoldier

          Well the media don’t stop discussing him in earnest voices.

  • Mara Naile-Akim

    And?

    The things JC is talking about are as pertinent now as they were in 2011.

  • Colin

    Stop smearing the man.

    • LRJ1

      lol

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      they can’t, they’ve lost the ability to discuss politics in a non-negative way

    • The_greyhound

      Pointing out that he’s a platitudinous dotard isn’t a smear.

      • Colin

        Irony…

  • http://my.telegraph.co.uk/voteregime/ The Prez

    He couldn’t even write his own crap speech? Oh man

    • Thayaric

      Do they ever?
      Most of Hamoron’s speeches are written by a woman, Clare Foges, otherwise known as the Prime Minister’s larynx.

      • http://my.telegraph.co.uk/voteregime/ The Prez

        Oh, I know that, so I probably should have said they can’t even write their own crap speech!

      • con

        second hand speech Corbyn, man o’ de pipple.

        • Cue Bono

          T’were grim on ‘t typewriter.

    • http://www.figurewizard.com/ figurewizard

      Yours is the only commentary on Corbyn’s speech that makes any sense.

    • goodsoldier

      Sheer laziness and incompetence. i could write a great one for them even though I would not agree with a word of it. It would take about 3 hours to write. I’m sure plenty of people could do it, to go by the good quality of so many of the comments I read. I guess Corbyn is so busy with his North Islington constituency work he doesn’t have time to write and think at the same time.

  • Peter Stroud

    Unfortunate for Corbyn, and Labour: but the majority of citizens in this UK do not recognise the country that they describe.

    • mactheanti

      You are

    • mactheanti

      You are joking? I’d say the majority of ordinary people recognise only too well the world Corbyn was describing. Most are extremely worried about how their children and grandchildren will be able to afford a home of their own for a start.

      • anyfool

        If they are worrying about their female grandchildren, they have every right to, when Labours new core vote reaches critical mass they will become less than animals under the law, the boys will be offered the wonderful option, convert or die,

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          and Tory cuts to UKBA will facilitate that process?

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        Or kids.

      • Cue Bono

        They certainly won’t be able to afford a home if Comrade Corbyn gets his hands on power, because they won’t have jobs.

      • The Wiganer

        The majority of people are opposed to mass immigration. Corbyn isn’t.

      • wudyermucuss

        They didn’t in May.
        They won’t in 2020.

  • P T McGeer

    Kind of like the US hopeful who plagiarised a speech by Neil Kinnock.

    • http://www.figurewizard.com/ figurewizard

      And look what happened to him.

      • P T McGeer

        Kinnock or the US hopeful?

  • ohforheavensake

    Yep, fair enough. The points are good ones, & needed saying.

    By the way: Milliband didn’t use this- Corbyn did. That’s the new politics, right there.

    • http://www.frankfisher.org Frank Fisher

      Obviously explains why both “forgot” to mention the deficit eh?

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        maybe because that would involve telling everyone how the Tories doubled the debt

        and JC doesn’t do cheap shots

      • Bayesian_Rationalist

        Corbyn mentioned both the trade deficit and the debt that the Tories have been racking up over the past five years, which they will continue to do.

        Unlike the gullible and docile amongst us, who believe that a household budget is equivalent to a national budget, mainstream economists are slightly confused at the obsession (in Britain) with the deficit, going so far as to call it ‘deficit fetishism.’ Quite an appropriate term, I’d say.

        • The Wiganer

          So, you are complaining about the Tories not getting rid of the deficit.

          Then you are saying we don’t need to reduce the deficit. So you are in favour of what the Tories have done.

          Who is the docile one again?

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            there’s nothing wrong with pointing out hypocrisy even though you don’t agree with the statements made

            • Cue Bono

              Nice of you to praise him for pointing out your hypocrisy.

      • Cue Bono

        LOL

      • paul

        Oh yes the deficit that Osborne promised to eliminate by 2015 ? Whilst the National Debt is now £1.5T you are a total deluded right wing arrogant Nasty Party Supporter who delights in distorting the facts to support your Tory Party’s warped agenda !!

        • http://www.frankfisher.org Frank Fisher

          I’m not a conservative voter – I don’t support any UK political party.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      Miliband, ohforheavensake!
      Heaven’s sake.
      Kids today, …

      • Labour Mole Catcher

        Don’t be an idiot for being an idiot’s sake!

  • http://www.frankfisher.org Frank Fisher

    Well, the Lefties are today lauding Corbyn in *exactly* the same way they once lauded Miliband, using the same language, same emotive trash, and not one of them seems to remember that they have done this all before. They’re like rather stupid children.

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      I personally never had any time for Milliband. Offered nothing different whatsoever. Voted SNP since 2009, will now go back to Labour.

      • anyfool

        So you had no time for Mr Ed because he offered nothing new, you brag about voting for a party that wants independence but offered the same thing, now you intend to vote for a party that completely opposes independence but offers even more old hat, still nothing new.
        Blair said voters for Corbyn need a brain transplant, they don’t, they need a brain.

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          typical tories resorting to ad hominem remarks

          not concerned about independence, I just want a party that opposes austerity. And the SNP did that, in words if not so much in action. But there was literally no one to vote for. Now there is.

          • The Meister

            Austerity will wipe out the deficit – it’s the biggest single thing any politician can do to help every single person in the UK. Much more useful than socialist platitudes. The public are in favour of austerity, including most Labour voters. They know it isn’t just some scheme dreamed up by Osborne to annoy them.

            • Namron7

              ‘The public are in favour of austerity, including most Labour voters.’
              So much so that they voted for Corbyn with a 60% share of the vote. Yeah, Labour voters are crazy about austerity. LOL!

              • Cue Bono

                How many of that 60% were £3 SWP types and conservatives?

                • Namron7

                  I think you’re showing your age. I doubt that there’s anyone in the UK under 50 who could even tell you what the SWP is/was.

                  And that’s an important point. i.e. The Labour Party’s new members are young! And the aging demographic of the average DM/Telegpraph reader is definitely going to be a problem for the Tories in 2020.

                  As for Conservative supporters joining Labour to vote for Corbyn, do you really think so? I honestly can’t think of a single reason why David Cameron would prefer to face the popular leftist Jeremy Corbyn at the polls in 2020 rather than the limp, Blair-jaded, Iraq-War-tinged Yvette Cooper et al.

                  But if you were one of those 60%, thanks. British politics needed a kick and Corbyn is providing it.

                • The Wiganer

                  You do realise that as people get older their attitudes and voting intentions change? Otherwise we’d never get a change of government.

                • Namron7

                  “You do realise that as people get older their attitudes and voting intentions change?”

                  Maybe. But I don’t see Corbyn’s current young supporters changing their voting intentions between now and 2020. And their numbers will only increase.

                • Cue Bono

                  They will somehow multiply? Like bacteria?

                • Namron7

                  “They will somehow multiply? Like bacteria?”

                  Not like bacteria, no. Because it’s an arithmetical rather than a geometrical progression. However, there are about 500,000 (18 year old) new voters added to the electoral register each year.

                  I don’t think you will find many 18 year old Tories.
                  .

                • Cue Bono

                  I think you are wrong. Most 18 year olds are non political. Of the few who are many will be left leaning, but when they emerge into the real world where most of them will have to earn a living, raise a family etc they will very soon become tory. Otherwise they will end up as sad old bearded failures in red socks and sandals.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  you mean the real world where you can’t afford a house before 30 and kids before 35? Where there are no jobs for young people, even with degrees? Where a quarter of under-25’s live with parents?

                  gee, they will really think austerity is grand!

                • Cue Bono

                  I think you will find that employment is booming and that low interest rates make mortgages affordable. What is Corbyn offering? Living in rented council housing? Or just free houses for all?

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  affordable, wow, that’s funny. Well, shame about the sky-high house prices then eh? Jeremy is offering we build more housing and regulate the rental market. Which is as common sense as it gets.

                  and yes, some more council housing would be nice too, Attlee did intend to make them available to everybody. As well as a job, which until 1979 was the case. Talking about jobs, I can’t imagine many young people thinking zero-hours contracts or agency work as being too fantastic.

                • Cue Bono

                  I can’t imagine many people thinking that throwing their money away on rent is a good idea when they could own their home by paying a mortgage. Just another thing that makes you unelectable.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  but they can’t. Getting on the housing ladder is harder than ever.

                • Cue Bono

                  Well they most certainly are buying houses.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  umm… no. Average age of first-time buyer is 37 (although the help to buy program lowered that to 31 for people who used it – but it has its limitations). The average first time buyer needs to earn over 40k, almost double the average wage.

                • Cue Bono

                  Er, and? Your leader was talking today about not just taking what you are given. That involves improving your lot. How that would work with him in charge was very unclear.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  nice change of the subject there. First it was ‘things are grand’ then ‘well, maybe not so grand, but you should improve your lot’. If there’s more affordable housing, prices will come down. If the rent market is regulated, rents will come down. Young people will welcome that. It’s not rocket science.

                • PeteTongue

                  You are losing focus: there is nothing wrong with what you list.
                  Owning homes isn’t a right. Affordable housing however should be.

                • goodsoldier

                  Atlee would be sick if he could see what has happened to Great Britain. So would Beveridge and Hardie.

                • goodsoldier

                  Low cost rent-controlled flats in Central London. 100% inheritance tax if he could. No second properties. All you have to do is watch Dr. Zhivago.

                • Jackthesmilingblack

                  Seek your fortune in the colonies.
                  Worked for me.
                  Jack, the Japan Alps Brit

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  many have done that also, yeah

                • Labour Mole Catcher

                  Worked?!

                • Sue Smith

                  Those social problems you mention are indeed serious. But I don’t think lunacy is the idea around that. Honestly. Failed policies of the past remind me of the film “The Mummy” where the walking cadaver didn’t ever get the girl. Use that as a metaphor for Corbyn and his beliefs.

                • goodsoldier

                  Yes, if you are gentile like Corbyn, a real job is not easy.

                • goodsoldier

                  If it was only ‘sad old bearded failures in red socks and sandals’, I wouldn’t mind so much. It’s how they manage to steal from people who produce and earn their living and they call it redistribution of wealth, or inequality. There is always a new slogan for theft.

                • Cue Bono

                  Of course Cameron would prefer Comrade Jeremy to any of the other candidates. The man is unelectable. You may not have noticed, but the tories are laughing their bollox off at this leftie nonsense.

                  If you are relying on the young people eventually outvoting the old then you are in for a disappointment. You see the thing is they are also ageing and as they age they wise up and put away childish nonsense. They grow up into conservatives.

                • JamesFaction

                  That must be why every tory who could grab some airtime did so to shriek that Corbyn is “a threat to national security/family security/economic security” and basically call him a terrorist. “Unelectable” and yet they are trying so hard to trash him and scare the public away from him. You’re living in a fantasy world Cue Bono

                • Cue Bono

                  I suspect that you are the one living in a fantasy world. In order to get into government Labour need to attract the votes of people who voted Tory in 2015. Having a terrorist supporting leftie in charge is very unlikely to make that happen. I wish you all the very best in your fantasies though as I am thoroughly enjoying the implosion of the Labour Party.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  except he doesn’t support terrorists, he just supports negotiation with terrorists. Given the West’s experience in fighting terrorism of late, it’s not such a terrible position to hold.

                • Cue Bono

                  Now that is a direct lie. He wasn’t negotiating with Provo and Islamist terrorists. He was offering them his full support.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  having quickly looked it up, some of the things he said were indeed very unfortunate, but then again it’s not like western governments don’t lend their support to terrorists when it suits them. E.g. in Chechnya.

                • Cue Bono

                  They don’t tend to lend support to the terrorists who are murdering people in their own country. Jezbollah did though as did his shadow chancellor.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  I think they see the whole conflict as 6 of one half a dozen of the other, which in his eyes excuses the IRA atrocities, in the same way that people are prepared to close their eyes on those by the British establishment. I don’t agree with their point of view, but lets’ just say I won’t be feeling any less safe with JC at number 10asdasd

                  EDIT:

                  Colin Parry, whose 12-year-old son Tim was killed in the 1993 Warrington bombing, accused Mr Corbyn of being “insensitive” to the violence victims of IRA atrocities.

                  He said: “I’m surprised he is so unwilling to condemn the IRA for the many things it did wrong.

                  “Jeremy Corbyn draws no distinction between the armed forces and the IRA. He keeps repeating that all sides did things that were wrong.That can’t be a sound judgement.

                  “In my view, you have to distinguish between a legitimate state army guarding its own citizens, trying to prevent violence, and an illegal force perpetrating that violence.

                  “His unease when it comes to condemning the IRA suggest that he clearly doesn’t see any difference. That is deeply offensive to victims of the IRA’s campaign when it was at its height.”

                • Cue Bono

                  Absolute nonsense.

                • Sue Smith

                  Chechnya, England; yeah, I can see the similarities. Both major world powers, both once embraced, er, socialism, both…….oh wait.

                • Paul Robson

                  But not interested in negotiating with the other side…

                • KingEric

                  Negotiation takes two opposing sides. Corbyn only ever talks to one side. It has nothing to do with negotiation.

                • Sue Smith

                  Not such a terrible position aye, with your head up your own backside when the firecracker goes off!!

                • Sue Smith

                  I think we all are.

                • Namron7

                  “Of course Cameron would prefer Comrade Jeremy to any of the other candidates. The man is unelectable.”

                  Well, I know Cameron’s stupid. But he can’t be THAT darn stupid.

                  For instance, Cameron must have noted that Corbyn’s leadership vote was higher than Blair’s and that Blair subsequently smashed the Tories three years later?

                • Cue Bono

                  I don’t think that Tories, socialists and commies were queueing up to vote for Blair. 160,000 people voted for Corbyn. That won’t sweep him into Downing Street.

                • Sue Smith

                  It will if he can get a job as the Janitor.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  let’s not forget Thatcher, in ’75 she was seen as a radical.

                • Namron7

                  Indeed.

                • Cue Bono

                  Yeah and some of you bozos still think she was radical. Yet it was her policies which helped bring prosperity to the UK after Labour had trashed the economy in the seventies.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  to people who grew up under the consensus of the 50’s and 60’s she would be yes

                • Cue Bono

                  Those are the people who prospered under her government.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  some of them did. But it was still a radical departure from the previous status quo.

                • Cue Bono

                  You want to go back to the fifties? I recommend you google “I’m alright Jack”. You can watch it on Youtube.

                • Jackthesmilingblack

                  Great movie.

                • Sue Smith

                  My mother always used to joke (and she died 31 years ago) that Labor/Labour voters “were born wetting their pants”. Much hilarity in our family and friends over that one.

                • Sue Smith

                  And thank God for that!!

                • Paul Robson

                  Seriously?

                • KingEric

                  A leadership vote confined to only members of that political party is meaningless back in the real, big world. How many voted for Corbyn, 250,000? The UK electorate is over 30 million. The views of 250,000 are to all intents and purposes inconsequential. No one outside the Labour party and the Westminster bubble gives a flying fcuk about how many votes Corbyn got in the leadership election.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  well, actually when I was young I believed in the free markets. I grew out of it.

                • Cue Bono

                  We cannot legislate for stupidity.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  no, but we can call stupidity anything that is a millimeter outside our world view

                  and hope the label sticks

                • Cue Bono

                  A millimeter? More like a thousand miles. Your philosophy does not work, has been proven worldwide to not work and has led to the deaths of millions. That is why you are unelectable.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  social democracy never killed anyone, and has resulted in the highest living standards on the planet

                  and here we see another tory trick: trying to pretend everyone to the left of Blair is a Stalinist under a sheep’s coat

                • Cue Bono

                  Blair was a social democrat. Corbyn is a socialist, Socialism causes misery, starvation and death.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  No, Blair was centre-right, Corbyn is a social democrat. Socialism kinda pre-supposes you get rid of enterpreneurship, like they did in the USSR, which Corbyn certainly never suggested. Indeed, he promised helping small businesses, so is in a way a truer capitalist than Cameron who is only interested in helping corporations.

                • Cue Bono

                  The problem with your theory is that Corbyn’s mate McDonnell proudly proclaimed himself a socialist just the other day. You are backing the wrong team bud. Join in with the winning side and come along for the big kill. It’s going to be great fun.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  what they mean by socialist and what me and you do are different things

                • Cue Bono

                  You mean they are liars?

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  socialism is a broad church, and they are at that end of it that’s called social democracy.

                • Cue Bono

                  No. They are full blown socialists and proud of it. Unelectable.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  well, you might as well deny the earth is round, doesn’t change the facts. Socialism that accepts profit-making is generally termed social democracy, and it is radically different from what we saw in the USSR and other communist countries. That brand of socialism never caused starvation or death.

                • PeteTongue

                  Mara, this folk no longer understands the meaning of words. They have no idea what you are talking about. In a minute they will be blaming Blairs edshcashun system, forgetting that they themselves left school before Thatcher took over.

                • magi83

                  ‘Socialism that accepts profit-making’ (!!!???)…is not socialism. By definition.

                • Sue Smith

                  It did for the people who actually PAID for all of that.

                • Sue Smith

                  You’re not even literate, which explains a lot really…

                • magi83

                  Blair centre-right…arguing over shades of black I see?

                • Sue Smith

                  I don’t mind if he’s a communist, just as long as he uses his own money to pay for his loony ideas.

                • Sue Smith

                  I think not. More likely they become Greens.

                • Peter Gilkes

                  Which is why you are squealing about him every few seconds. At least he stays away fro pigs’ heads.

                • KingEric

                  Really dull. I have been hearing the “conservative supports are all old a are dying out” line for well over 30 years. You do realise that the ones that do pass away are replaced with new supporters, hence how they keep winning elections? You are really desperate if one of your main hopes for a Labour victory in 2020 is that all the old Tory supporters will have died. Dream on!

                • goodsoldier

                  He’s providing the usual tantrum of the spoiled child who thinks everybody else is given things unfairly instead of earning it fairly and squarely.

                • Josh Danby

                  He had over a 50% result from all 3 sections – £3 members, full party members and trade union affiliates. Even removing the £3 voters entirely he would have won in the first round. Although the 70,000 new full party members since his election must consist of some pretty determined Tories and a hitherto unheard of level of Trotskyists.

              • The Meister

                Eh???? Labour voters? No no, his 60% was the tattooed brigade, the £ 3 Twitterati, the bitter old Trots who remember 1968, student Feminazis, infilitrators from UKIP and the Tories, etc, etc. A real rag-tag rabble. How incredible that you don’t understand the difference between the activists/members and the electorate. No wonder they are going to lose massively. Parallel universe time.

            • Cherry Barnett

              If it will wipe out the deficit then why is the country in double the debt? Surely if it’s all cuts then we will be spending less….
              Tory lies my friend.

              • Cue Bono

                So what exactly will spending more do to the deficit?

                • JamesFaction

                  The more money you make available to those who will spend it, the more tax dollars you can collect. It’s called economic stimulus.

                  It’s a shame the “austerity” myth still lives on.

                • magi83

                  We have a stimulus. It’s called the deficit.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  it’s called investment ))

                • Cue Bono

                  So you will invest in an even bigger deficit. That will help us how?

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  investment generates growth, growth generates higher revenue, you get your investment back plus some more

                  it has to be right sort of investment of course, not the botched job tony did

                • Cue Bono

                  Investment in benefits does not encourage growth. It encourages people to stay at home and adopt a lifestyle of sloth and it runs up an unaffordable deficit. Investing in nationalised industry will lead to strikes, subsequent unaffordable wage increases and bankruptcy. We don’t need to guess about this as it has been tried before and we know it doesn’t work.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  but it worked just fine. We had full employment, a strong industry (now we rely on oil and financial services) and a much lower cost of living compared to the income. You could have a child, travel and buy a house without bankrupting yourself. Yes, there were problems, but guess what there are problems now, in spite of 30 years of oil revenues and a large technological leap. And guess what, with full employment you don’t need to pay as much benefit

                • Cue Bono

                  It was unaffordable and the economy went downhill rapido. The Tories had to come along a clear up the mess as they always have to do. The electorate will not make that mistake again.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  and as a result of 30 years of Tory and NuLab poliices (with some help from the banks) we are in a much bigger hole. Thanks for clearing up the mess.

                • goodsoldier

                  Growth? I hear that word bandied about. Gordon Brown always talked about investment and growth and handed out cheap loans to create affordable housing. You approve of Gordon? excuses, always excuses for the same old destructive ideology that loses in every honest debate.

            • Mara Naile-Akim

              umm, look at Greece. 5 years of austerity led to the economy contracting by 25%. This led to the revenues falling, making the whole exercise counterproductive!

              it’s economics 101 it really is. The state not investing leads to the state not receiving revenue. The debt grows.

              • Cue Bono

                Greece is thriving now under its socialist governent?

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  Tsipras sold out.

                • Cue Bono

                  So their economy is now in sh!te order because they didn’t go far enough left? Priceless.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  not a question of left and right, but a question of austerity being shown not to work, and actually make things worse

                • Cue Bono

                  Utterly wrong. The only hope that the Greek economy has of recovery is if they instigate austerity, because otherwise they will run out of money. It collapsed in the first place because they were handing out free money to ‘pensioners’ of fifty years of age, and they weren’t paying their taxes. Their money tree fell over.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  no, it collapsed because they don’t have control of their own currency. Although the rich never paying tax didn’t help either.

                  in my book, a 25% contraction in economy and a spiraling debt despite massive bailouts is an abysmal failure. Contrast this to what Iceland did, and how they’ve recovered.

                • Cue Bono

                  I don’t recall Tsiaris ever calling for a pull out from the EU. Is that what you support?

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  Varoufakis did though. Yes, I do think that Greece should have threatened to pull out of the EU. It was a situation of mutually assured destruction, where the damage to both Greece and the EU of Grexit would have been massive, and might have persuaded the latter it wasn’t worth it. But that isn’t the point, the point is that a healthy economy relies on government spending, and if you take that away your revenues will fall.

                • Cue Bono

                  A healthy economy relies on entrepreneurship. Crush that and your economy will fail. That is the problem with the philosophy of the left.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  problem is, the Tories do precious little of helping the little entrepreneurs and SME’s. They instead help the corporations. And austerity is terrible for those little guys, although great for the corporations!

                • goodsoldier

                  The EU helps the corporations. That is partly why the Tories support the EU.

                • goodsoldier

                  Why do you and Corbyn love the EU?

                • PeteTongue

                  Tsipras didn’t sell out – he is delivering the goods that no other leader of Greece could deliver. He was reelected because Greeks understand that and you don’t.

            • Peter Gilkes

              No. it was dreamed up by Osborne to run down public services and the sell of the bet bits left.
              The deficit will be wiped out, you say, by giving tax breaks to the rich, paying vast sums to private landlord in housing benefit, subsidising private companies wage bills through tax credits and ignoring tax evasion. The Sheister would be more appropriate.

          • Mark Fletcher

            I see you are not concerned about independence. Obviously you’re not bothered about Trident either and the odd £100 billion quid. And what with Corbyn’s remarks on the Andrew Marr show, I dare say you cannot much be bothered with truth and honesty. I stopped voting for Labour around the same time as you but will never vote Labour again.

            • Mara Naile-Akim

              Corbyn is the least untruthful and dishonest guy in there. And as for Trident, there is a clear military argument for not having it. Not everyone who opposes it is a CND infiltrator. In this day an age, with MoD budgets squeezed like never before, there are other more important areas to devote funds than nuclear weapons, which the US has by the thousand anyway.

              • Mark Fletcher

                Corbyn has fallen at the first hurdle. Pretty much his earliest pronouncement on Scotland was several versions of that old Unionist hymn SNP=Bad.. He’s blown it. Not truthful in any respect. Quite obviously dishonest.

          • Icebow

            Pro-moneytree.

            • Mara Naile-Akim

              typical tory meaningless soundbite

              • goodsoldier

                You approve of printing money and devaluing our currency so that your ilk can spend now and we all suffer later. Osborne is doing this now too, I know, but he is not doing what any conservative of probity would do.

        • Sue Smith

          Mr. Ed. Remember him? He used to buy stuff using Wilbur’s credit card. The more things change….

          I’ll stop horsing around now.

      • SC1

        You realize Corbyn is against more powers for Scotland?

        He would rather see Scotland governed by a Tory government in London than a social democratic government in Edinburgh.

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          So?

          Not everyone who voted SNP wants separation or more powers. Some people just want to vote for a party that does not follow the same old beaten-up austerity and free market orthodoxy.

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            and interestingly, SNP’s statements tonight indicate they want to stay on the left of even Corbyn’s Labour, having a go at him for not challenging Osbourne enough

            • e2toe4

              Bunging £150K of public money at the more than slightly capitalist and financially successful T-in-the-Park music festival is obviously one of the Marxist wealth redistributive policies the SNP feel Corbyn may unable to match?

          • e2toe4

            I have a plan that challenges beaten-up free market orthodoxy and speaks to the problem of austerity…at least to the bit of austerity that applies to me personally in the present economic system.

            It is radical and innovative and essentially involves finding distressed property owners at the lower end of the market …then redistributing wealth to …er.. myself I suppose… by buying their homes from them…before selling them…hopefully within an hour or two, at much higher prices.

            I see nothing at all wrong in this, but am worried I may be missing some fine point of morality…or even Law.

            Is there anyone you could suggest in the SNP who may be able to give me some advice about my scheme?

      • Tamerlane

        Garbage. You were plugging the Miliband for PM message a year ago. Nice try though.

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          ah yea, the good old tory ad hominem. Prove it then!

          haven’t voted labour since early 2000’s (when I was young and stupid and believed Blair). Voted Lib Dems and then SNP.

          • Tamerlane

            Yeah right, I remember laughing at you a year ago waxing lyrical about Miliband.

      • Bob-B

        Miliband was different from Blair in being unable to win an election. I’m sure Corbyn will differ from Blair in the same way.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        The reason so many Brits misspell “Miliband” (and Saville) incorrectly is that they stress the word incorrectly. Stress on the first syllable. Bad case of placing the emphasis on the wrong syllable.

    • mickey667

      Heller offer him the fucking speech.This is ridiculous

    • dissidentvoice

      People like you make me feel so old inside…

    • JACK HAGGERTY

      Stupid of us to think we can question what Noam Chomsky called predatory capitalism? Stupid to think we can have a public conversation again about social democracy? The right-wing have gone too far. They need to be stopped. Cameron and Osborne are about to give the poor another kicking, and now they want to neuter what’s left of the working class movement, i.e. the trades unions. They asked for a class war and they will get one.

      • Cue Bono

        LOL March comrades march!

        • JACK HAGGERTY

          As a non-political animal of 64 I have never marched in any public demonstration, but I shall be out demonstrating (lawfully) against this parcel or rogues (the words of Burns) in government. Mr Corbyn is in the great tradition of British radicals from Hazilit to Jim Larkin.

          • JACK HAGGERTY

            Sorry I meant to write ‘parcel of rogues’ which describes Cameron and Osborne and their super rich friends in big business.

            • Cue Bono

              Do away with the big businesses Comrade that’s the thing to do! Then everyone will be equally poor.

              • rtj1211

                Perhaps reforming them would be as appropriate as reforming the Trades Unions? You know, no political donations without a shareholder vote and 50% of all shareholders must vote yes? Reform of taxation law to stop billions of sales in this country being booked to jurisdictions like Luxumbourg which maintain low taxation rates as they don’t need any infrastructure as they are so small (which is why all rich tax havens are in very small jurisdictions)?? Reform of pay structures limiting maximum pay to a given multiple of minimum pay?? Reform of allowable expenses preventing corporates having never-ending subsidised jollies to sports events around the globe? Reform of estates laws which prevents those who offshore their assets from having any input into political processes??

                You know the sorts of things: sauce for the goose….

                • Cue Bono

                  The sort of things that drive business out of this country and put people on the dole. Who will pay for the dole when there is no one in work?

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  somehow in the 70’s there was full employment

                  so I call BS

                • Cue Bono

                  I remember the seventies. Apart from the ridiculous hair styles, beards, flares etc what I remember mostly are the strikes, the utterly crap standards of manufacture, night shift workers turning up with sleeping bags under their arms, the unburied dead, the piles of unlifted rubbish, the power cuts.

                  I strongly suspect that big business was disinclined to invest in the UK because of all of that and that led to mass unemployment.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  but there wasn’t any mass unemployment, that’s the whole point. Not till the 80’s.

                • Cue Bono

                  The mass unemployment of the 80s was a direct result of the destruction of the economy in the 70s. The conservatives always have to clear up the mess made by Labour. Always.

                • Mara Naile-Akim

                  no it was not, it was a political choice

                • Cue Bono

                  We should have continued to produce unaffordable climate destroying coal and crap cars that no one wanted to buy?

                • The Wiganer

                  Labour had 13 years to sort all those problems. They didn’t bother.

                • Cherry Barnett

                  No, Tory-esque Labour had 13 years. This is different.
                  Stop looking at the name and assuming it’s the same.

                • Cue Bono

                  You’ve got your party back comrade?

                • The Wiganer

                  This new Labour is in favour of the EU. It is the EU that allows money to be funnelled through Luxembourg.

                  So your ‘new’ party won’t do a damn thing.

              • Jack Haggerty

                Mr Corbyn promised more help for the self-employed. He recognised the need for entrepreneurs and private enterprise. But unregulated capitalism is working against the welfare of we, the many. Chomsky has demonstrated this truth in several books. Have you forgotten the world financial crash? Read the recent book by historian Tony Judt. Read Naomi Klein. Read Polly Toynbee and David Walker’s book, ‘Cameron’s Coup – How the Tories Took Britain to the Brink’ (Guardian Books 2015). Read Karl Miller’s book, ‘Dark Horses’. As a former literary editor of The Spectator, Mr Miller can remember when this once brilliant weekly journal was anti-Establishment, and when it was truly radical and independent. Now when I see its editor speaking on television I feel ashamed for him. His views are trite and callow. Oh for a new Hilaire Belloc or GK Chesterton.

      • whs1954

        If we on the centre-right have gone too far, how come we were re-elected with 26 more MPs than last time? How come we were handed a majority government four months ago. You aren’t the only voter in the British democracy, you know. Who is in government isn’t just your choice.

        • JamesFaction

          The newsmedia works hand-in-hand with the corporates and ensures their hard-right pro-corporate-welfare pro-rich mates get elected.

          Democracy is only possible if people are making an INFORMED decision. The majority read the “news” and therefore ignorant and have no time to research what’s really going on because they work so fricken hard just to survive.

          Welcome to the brave new world.

          • goodsoldier

            The news media adore the Labour party. All we have been hearing for weeks are loving details about Corbyn and endless shop talk about the Labour party. The entire BBC votes Labour, occasionally a dribble of lib dem and one secret Tory here and there. What do you watch or listen to? It must be quite good..

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          because milliband failed to offer anything different

          in scotland where there was a genuine different choice, the pro-austerity coalition of tories, lib dems and nulab were trounced like never before

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Another DS that can’t spell Miliband.

            • Labour Mole Catcher

              Enough about the name of your male lover!

        • Jack Haggerty

          And as a democrat I accept the will of the people. But the food banks will become a way of life for millions of poor people. Hunger has returned to Britain. More people will lose their benefit. Private rents will rocket. The gap between wealthy and poor will grow to catastrophic proportions. Cameron even intends to meddle with the independence and integrity of the BBC and Channel 4 – ironic when you remember how Cameron and Osborne were wooed by BSkyB chief executive James Murdoch. In 2007 these three devious twisters attended a summit on, quote, ‘social responsibility’. What would Clement Atlee say if he were alive?

      • The Wiganer

        We had a public consultation back in May. It was called an election.

        As Class War now involves attacking shops that sell bowls of cereal I don’t think you’re going to get very far.

        • Jack Haggerty

          No, a class war is about fighting for social decency. Fighting the way Keir Hardie and Jim Larkin fought, through peaceful means. Read a wonderful little book — HARRY’S LAST STAND – HOW THE WORLD MY GENERATION BUILT IS FALLING DOWN, AND WHAT WE CAN DO TO SAVE IT (Icon 2014). The author, Harry Leslie Smith, is 92 and he fought for the country he loves, Britain, in the Second World War. Harry supported Robin Corbyn in the election for Labour leader. I did so myself and I am an evangelical Christian.

      • goodsoldier

        And you want mass immigration? How is that good for your working classes here in the UK? Tell me how much you care for the working classes in this country?

    • akrasia

      Bang on FF. Terminally deluded automatons.

      “New boss, same as the old boss”.

    • Nyree Ambarchian

      Not just lefties. I never felt any connection to Miliband, but Corbyn feels authentic. It’s definitely engaging.

    • Damon

      And the same way they honked and grovelled at the altar of Tony Blair in 97. Remember that red-headed plonker singing ‘things can only get bett-eeeeer’?

    • Sue Smith

      Great news for the Tories!!

  • mailbiter

    New politics. Same old crap.

    • Bob McDade

      New! Better! Different! Change!

    • Bozza ‘n’ Dave

      Holy crap, this time.

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