Coffee House

Moazzam Begg: Islamic bookseller or terrorist trainer?

10 October 2014

4:44 PM

10 October 2014

4:44 PM

Moazzam Begg’s lawyer once said that the former Guantanamo Bay detainee was ‘an extremist all right – he believes passionately in charity and justice for all.’

Many seemed to agree. Despite Begg signing a confession at Guantanamo admitting his links to al-Qaeda and terrorism-related activity (which he says was coerced), Amnesty International promoted the terror suspect widely. At a campaign event in 2007, Shami Chakrabarti of the civil-liberties group Liberty called him a “wonderful advocate . . . for human rights and in particular for human liberty’. In 2006, the New Statesman ranked Begg 21st in its top-50 list of ‘heroes of our time’ (ahead of Bill Clinton, Bob Dylan and the Queen).

However, earlier this year, Begg was charged with a series of terrorism offences relating to time he recently spent in Syria. He was accused of attending a terrorism training camp, possessing electronic documents (entitled Camp 1, Camp 2, Training Schedule, Camp Rules, and Fitness Training Schedule) and fundraising for terrorism. Begg was recorded complaining that his trainees lacked maturity, that ‘Jihad is not just a physical capacity but also about using your brain’, and that ‘they want to call it martyrdom but I said we have to be physically prepared. If you don’t prepare this just becomes suicide, not martyrdom.’

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Begg had denied all the charges. While he has conceded that he was in Syria giving training to rebels working against the Assad regime, he has said his activities there did not meet the definition of terrorism.  His lawyer argued that ‘Mr Begg did not train anyone for the purposes of terrorism as defined in the 2001 [anti-terror] act. Mr Begg says he was involved in training young men to defend civilians against war crimes by the Assad regime.’

In a farcical turn of events, the charges were dropped last week when fresh evidence was presented to the Crown Prosecution Services (CPS) by MI5. The CPS has been cagey about precisely what this was, but one component is that Begg had actually travelled to Syria with MI5’s prior consent and was in contact with them before his departure. Begg will now escape jail.

He has previously admitted to fighting in Bosnia; his own handwritten notes to the Combatant Status Review board details his time at training camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan in the 1990s. Yet he is routinely described in the media as an innocent swept up in the War on Terror, who was simply a ‘language teacher’, an ‘international aid worker’, or an ‘Islamic bookseller’.

Now he has admitted to being capable of giving military training. That is some contradiction. I’ve never done any aid work, but you must pick up some unusual skills in the field, if Begg’s experience is anything to go by.

In an additional twist, Begg has also now disclosed in a BBC interview that he may know those who were holding Alan Henning and could perhaps have secured his release had the government chosen not to ‘demonise and criminalise’ him. If we take him at his word, it’s worth asking how this school teacher/aid worker/bookseller could have the weight in jihadi circles necessary to pull off something of this magnitude. Remember, even theological heavyweights such as Abu Qatada criticised ISIS’ capture of Henning – but to no avail.

The natural suspicion is that Begg always was far more than the naïve innocent he professed to be. The nature of his activities in Syria may have now become clear. But his links to both terrorist groups and MI5 have ensured that the truth about Begg himself has never been murkier.

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Show comments
  • Mary Cotter

    Islamic Aid Services aims to deliver exceptional care and support to Muslims living in poverty. For that we have to look towards being the premier zakat collection and distribution organisation.

  • cartimandua

    If he has stayed on the right side of any law it has not been for want of trying. Sometimes it is .. a duck.

  • cartimandua

    I would have thought “demonizing him” would lend him credibility with IS.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Marxism 2010 – Mozzam Begg, Gerry Conlan and Gareth Peirce – Was it like this for the Irish?
    YouTube
    Watch it and weep Britisher pals, if you still have an ounce of humanity left in you.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    And now this from Veterans Today:
    “Framed on bogus terror charges after the 9/11 false flag operation, Moazzam Begg was finally deemed innocent and released…but not before enduring three years of torture in Bagram and Guantanamo.
    Begg witnessed fellow detainees being beaten to death by US soldiers. He witnessed the unimaginably brutal rape and torture of Aafia Siddiqui, another innocent Muslim caught up in the post-9/11 witch-hunt. After his release, Begg wrote a gripping account of his experiences, Enemy Combatant, and worked with the close-Guantanamo activist website CagePrisoners.”

    Suck it up, Britisher pals. You’re chief henchman to the bad guys.

  • The Masked Marvel

    He’s an extremist chancer, and little else. If Shami praises him, we know he’s on the wrong side of decency.

  • swatnan

    I’d go for the latter. Something quite shifty about Begg. Not to be trusted.
    Of course he might well be a double agent having worked for MI5 to infiltrate the plotters, and thats why charges have been dropped. We’ll find out in due course.
    Shami is a great lady, a tireless champion of liberty.

  • cromwell

    He travels to Syria with MI5s blessing, MI5 save him from jail, it would seem he is a MI5 agent.

    • ramesesthegrumbler

      I wonder how his ‘friends’ in Syria will receive such news. An MI5 agent in their very midst!
      Is it possible such a notion is being touted in order to get him beheaded next time he pops over there? Surely not?

  • jesseventura2

    Referendum on returning muslim immigrants to countries of origin UKIP?

    • Donafugata

      In my dreams

  • Mike

    Lets cut the crap, the establishment along with the security services will employ anyone if its expedient to their current activities. It doesn’t matter whether they are Islamic nut jobs, mentally unstable, psychopaths or even gang rapists, they’ll employ & use them and when it all goes sour, there’s no case to answer in court.

    Who needs extremists when you have governments like we’ve had !

  • Roger Hudson

    That ‘fitness training schedule’ sounds nasty. I use the ‘Commando7’ myself.
    The states problem is trying to prove ‘intent’, reach for the mind probe.
    Tens of thousands of people in the UK have ‘material helping terrorism’ or whatever the charge is, I used to be in the TA, i must throw out that old AK47 manual that’s in the bookcase.

  • BonzoDog

    If you are clean-shaven and your name is Bruce you will have no worries with the authorities. What do these people expect with their ten-syllable names and face bristles that came off a street sweeper attachment?

  • http://twitter.com/WinstonCDN WinstonCDN

    He is both. Why does the UK allow this?

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    If you’d been treated in the same way as Moazzam Begg, you too might be a little miffed. Or as a US Marine commented to the “Tipton Three” on their release, “If you weren’t a terrorist before you came here, after the way we’ve treated you, you sure would be now.” Helps explain why the US is knowingly holding innocent men year on year.
    The United States of Torture: It’s undeniable.
    Jack, Japan Alps

    • Hexhamgeezer

      Torture? He seems fit and wealthy enough unlike some family friends who returned from the Far East.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Yes of course. All that went before is just a figment of the imagination and forbearance is the only response that will prevent the crazed radicals becoming more crazed and more radical.

      Here’s a question for you. If you had a choice would you rather be held in Gitmo Bay or be on one of the 9/11 airliners?

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Flight 77 the one that supposedly hit the Pentagon, the flight with Barbara Olson on board. Perhaps I’d have been given a new identity. Note well that less than six months later, husband Ted (former Solicitor General) marries Lady Booth (that’s her name, not a title). Problem is no one can find a trace of M’lady from educational records. Barbara plus plastic surgery? Whisper who dare.
        Suspect you selected the wrong hypothetical example.

  • ADW

    Here’s a test: ask this bookseller if he’s prepared openly to sell alan Dersowitz on Israel, Richard dawkisn and c s Lewis on Christianity. If so, he’s a bookseller. If not, he believes in freedom of nothing at all, just religious bigotry.

    • cartimandua

      He sold the most dreadful extremist propaganda. If he didn’t “do” anything he will have triggered those who did. Perhaps he is one of the serial killers by proxy who trap stupid or crazy Muslim youth.
      Did he really complain the recruits were not fit enough for suicide missions?

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    The United States of Torture: It’s undeniable.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Moazzam Begg was deprived of “his day on court” because it could have led to a former foreign secretary (David Miliband) being charged with involvement in and facilitating the torture of a British citizen while held by the US in Guantanamo. A Miliband in the dock; isn’t that enough incentive for you? Where could it lead? “Tony Blair, you are charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity. But be assured more serious charges will follow.”

    • Fergus Pickering

      Why don’t I care?

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Insensitivity multiplied by a total lack of humanity multiplied by mind-numbing stupidity is the concept I’m trying to convey.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Whereas you, sir, are a shining light. Well done!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            What a break, Jock McNutter in your corner.

            • Fergus Pickering

              You mean you are for Begg the Terrorist. Oh well, it takes all sorts. I hope he blows YOU up first.

              • Jackthesmilingblack

                You’re starting to believe your own BS, Fergus.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  I tell nothing but truth, O Picaninny. Except when I don’t of course

        • http://www.ukip.org/index/ George Smiley (deceased)

          And you do, given that you are a Japanese Troll?!

    • Donafugata

      And we have already paid dearly for that.

  • John Piatt

    He was on the Today programme the other day. I never heard such vain bullshit in all my life. A time-waster.

  • Bonkim

    MI5 must know what others don’t. .

  • ButcombeMan

    There is a long tradtion of serious criminals pretending to or even actually cooperating with intelligence Officers to give themselves an “insurance policy”. Sometimes the Intelligence Officers even know and well understand what is being done but just need the intelligence too much to pass up the opportunity.

    All the indications are that Begg falls into that class of person.

    Shami of course could not comprehend this scenario but it happens all the time.

  • Agrippina

    Why this man has not gone to live in a mossie country is beyond me. I assume it must be because he makes quite a lot of money via the taxpayer in various claims against the govt.

    Whatever happened to having folks disappear, this chap seems to travel to fairly dangerous spots. How would we know where he went, who got him etc?

  • Mc

    The security services has unlimited legal powers and technology to snoop on people it dislikes. Yet Begg is still to be found guilty of any terrorist offences. That suggests any number of possibilities, none of which reflect well on the UK authorities. The possibilities include that the security services are grossly incompetent, Begg is innocent and simply being hounded by the authorities, or Begg is operating with the security services’ approval (as suggested by this article).

    • ButcombeMan

      No read my other post where I explain.

  • victor67

    “Confession at Guantanamo” Must be Kosher then.

    • Hexhamgeezer

      ‘Kosher? Have you lost your head man…………………………….?

      • victor67

        Irony my dear fellow. This article is all speculation.

        • Sean L

          The recording isn’t speculation: he either said those things or he didn’t say them.

        • Hexhamgeezer

          …and apparently not spotted? Ever heard of cast-irony?

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Two-dimensional humourless rubes; what would you do with um!

  • GraveDave

    Shami Chakrabarti of the civil-liberties group Liberty

    How much does she earn and who pays it? And is it only Muslim terrorist suspects she defends? It would be good to know. Because I’ve certainly never heard her raising her voice for the poor ‘racist’ whites who have been falsely arrested or charged by certain politically motivated parties.

    • edlancey

      She is one of the lucky few who can give “Malala” a run for her money in the looks department.

    • Agrippina

      Gareth Peirce is the solicitor who has defended Begg, Qatada, Hamza et al. She is of course paid for by you and me, the taxpayer.

      She was a journo and switched to law. She is a softy liberal who attended Cheltenhams Ladies College and Oxford. She is a good person but naive.

      Liberty receive funds from us taxpayers too, as they defend human rights & civil liberties!

      • Donafugata

        I have just tried to say I agree and that Gazza Pierce is in the photo but My comment is awaiting approval so it may not appear.

  • In2minds

    Moazzam Begg, just another ordinary East Birmingham resident?

    • GraveDave

      Shami Chakrabarti of the civil-liberties group Liberty called him a “wonderful advocate for human rights and in particular for human liberty’.

      For he’s a jolly good fellow – for he’s a jolly good fellow – for he’s a jolly good fellow…

      • goatmince

        Shami Chakrabarti is reported to have had a Maccy Dees once, and a diet coke, she is reported to have shopped at that anti Jewish supermarket of that Lord chappy, and she did reportedly use uber taxis – you know, the ones that charge the living daylight in peak hours.

        Time to boycott all that. Now.

    • CGR

      Birminghamistan !!!

    • wudyermucuss

      An ordinary peace loving bookseller.
      Hobbies include jihad training.
      Knows a few IS hostage takers.
      A nice guy.
      Always said hello.
      Neighbours are shocked probably.

  • davidofkent

    Can he not be persuaded to join the jihadis in Iraq or Syria?

  • K BB

    Christopher Hitchens was right, they should have been left face down on the battlefield.

    • goatmince

      When were you last on a battlefield, bro?

      CH also said that Britain was broke, had no pensions, was selling all its assets to Qatar and so on, mind – so we do all quite like him.

      • K BB

        You may be thinking of the wrong man. The great Hitch is late.

        • goatmince

          His bro is now delivering the thinking, bro.
          Please refrain from quoting dead people – they cannot defend themselves …

  • CGR

    Why is he still in this country? He should be deported.

    • Donafugata

      Unfortunately he was born in Birmingham so we are stuck with him.

  • AlexanderGalt

    Forget Begg. What’s one man.

    My comfort is that ISIS are not Islamic. David Cameron told me so!

    Just imagine if they were… All those millions of Muslim immigrants…

    It doesn’t bear thinking about.

    There’s apretty good angle on the “religion of peace” lie that in a
    post: “Why The Obvious Lie” at:

    http://john-moloney.blogspot.com/2014/10/why-lie.html

  • Donafugata

    He has been caught twice in terror training camps.
    First time was in Afghanistan in 2002 when the Pakistanis handed him to the Americans. At that time and in consideration of what he was up to, he spent a justifiable sojourn in Guantanamo.

    When he returned to the UK he was generously compensated by, who else but the British tax payer.

    Earlier this year he was picked up in a Syrian terror training camp but has recently been released. No doubt he will again be receiving another wedge with the help of the person to the left of the photo, the human rights lawyer who looks vaguely like a woman but has a man’s name.

    Begg now appears to be trying to make a career change from poacher to gamekeeper in claiming he helped get Henning released.

  • McRobbie

    I was amused when he tried to stick pins in the government saying he had been willing to “negotiate” with poor mr hennings murderers…provided the UK government begged him of course. He’s done nothing to help catch the mad muslim killer has he, and he did not come out as even the most extreme muslim leaders did to condemn the ISIS thugs proposed killing at the time. It seems that he is playing the spinning media game for ISIS.

    • Donafugata

      His middle name should be taqiyya.

  • Swiss Bob

    All I want to know is when is he going to be deported.

    He could take the execrable Chakrabarti with him.

    • Suzy61

      Chaka is the darling of El Beeb. She is a useful yardstick for the rest of us…if she supports it then it is at least worth investigating, with a touch more circumspect.

      • telemachus

        To all the Islamophobes that haunt this blog, it should be noted that Shami is a Hindu
        As to hypocrisy, I would point out as short time ago as 30 August last year we were on the cusp of military intervention in Syria joining the cause that Begg is accused of joining
        Begg is no more terrorist than Cameron who is reported this weekend to be pressing Miliband hard to join the attack with the USA on those that Begg also has been attacking
        *
        We need to harness the Beggs in our midst rather than alienating them

        • Swiss Bob

          To all the Labour Pàedophiles and enablers. It’s not right to cover up for and assist pàédophiles, it’s not right to arrest the children’s parents when they complain and it’s definitely not right even if you make it legal. NB Ms Harman.

          We need to deport the Beggs of this World via a herc at 15,000ft. Along with most of the Labour party hierarchy and their useful idiots, See above.

          • telemachus

            If you wish to bring party politics into it
            Support the call of that magnificent leader Tony Blair to get some boots on the ground to wipe out the ISIL barbarians rather than libelling a single individual

            • Swiss Bob

              You brought party politics into it with your pitiful accusations of bigotry, a Labour party specialty.

              Smearing is all you have left, no one wants to vote for you anymore, by 2020 your party will be polling like the LibDems are now.

              • telemachus

                Listen
                There is a crisis in Iraq and Syria that threatens the Free World
                And all we hear is blanket condemnation of all Muslims
                Notwithstanding that the Shia Muslims worldwide and particularly in Iraq, Iran and Syria are working tirelessly to crush the so called Muslims of IS

                • Swiss Bob

                  And all we hear is blanket condemnation of all Muslims

                  No, those are the voices in your head.

                  You are projecting your own bigotry which you so frequently display here, most recently above, accusing people of ‘Islamophobia’, on no evidence whatsoever.

                  You also demonstrate perfectly what fifth columnists, useful idiots and traitors Labour are with your lies, ‘so called muslims’, I think they call that taqiyya.

                • telemachus

                  Your rant indicates that my statement is reality not voices

                • Colonel Mustard

                  No, you should listen for once and give it a rest.

                • telemachus

                  I listen to reasoned whispers
                  Not shouted rants

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You don’t listen at all. You want to dominate the discourse, like radical Islam.

                • telemachus

                  When ones opponents are wrong
                  And further, are fomenting discontent in our peace loving tolerant nation, the only alternative to dominating the discourse is too horrendous to contemplate

                • Colonel Mustard

                  It is not for you to determine right and wrong. No-one set you up as judge or even arbiter.

                  And most of the fomenting of discontent is the direct result of the policies, activities and behaviour of your fellow travellers of the left. Their embrace of the international in the quest for new voters and their illegal wars have given us our own Middle East turmoil.

                  There is growing resentment at what passes in England, understandably so. Attempting to suppress it is just going to make it worse. And you can take that to your party leader in case he and his other authoritarian New Labour has beens have any more plans to regulate what people can think, write or say here.

                • telemachus

                  So stoke it up
                  Cable Street style

                • Colonel Mustard

                  I’m not stoking anything up. You and your fellow travellers have been and are doing that.

                  Or did you think your assault on English national identity, culture, traditions and religion would result in capitulation without demur? Did you presume that the one identity you despise could be eradicated without objection whilst you huff and puff about the rights and sensitivities of all the others?

                • Mynydd

                  “It is not for you to determine right and wrong. No-one set you up as judge or even arbiter”, also applies to you. People in greenhouses shouldn’t throw stones.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Your comprehension is, once again, sadly lacking. The context of telemachus’ statements was that he wants to dominate the discourse when he considers that his opponents are wrong. In other words he wants to control what they say.

                  You are another who likes to tag other peoples comments rather than just making your own. Very selectively too. And you have commented here not impartially but as a fellow tribal supporter of the Labour party.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Shia muslims are working tirelessly to exterminate Sunni muslims And vice versa. Let us hope they both succeed.

          • Mynydd

            If you have evidence about “Labour Paedophiles and enablers” and “NB Ms Harman” then it is your civic duty to hand it over to the police. Shouting your month off here will not help children and their parents. All it means that you are more interested in playing party politics than the health and safety of children. Finally I would ask, do you hold all members of the Conservative/Lib Dem parties responsible for all child physical and sexual abuse since they came to power in 2010.

            • Swiss Bob

              I might take your remonstrations seriously if you took the same stance against your friend’s hateful bigotry and trolling.

            • Colonel Mustard

              “… you are more interested in playing party politics”

              You have some nerve when everything you post here is either in defence of the Labour party or an attack on the Tories.

            • Agrippina

              The Jay Report outlined the failings. Diane Abbot blogged on here, you may find it shows clearly the evidence you mention. Deputy Council Leader (2011-2014) from the Pakistani community was clear that he had not understood the scale of the CSE problem in Rotherham until 2013. He then disagreed with colleague elected members on the way to approach it. He had advocated taking the issue ‘head on’ but had been overruled.

              He was one of the elected members who said they thought the criminal convictions in 2010 were ‘a one-off, isolated case’, and not an example of a deep-rooted problem of Pakistani-heritage perpetrators targeting young white girls. This was at best naïve, and at worst ignoring a politically inconvenient truth (page 99).

              Recommendation from Prof Jay: The issue of race should be tackled as an absolute priority if it is a significant factor in the criminal activity of organised child sexual abuse in the Borough (page 118).

          • Donafugata

            Agreed but unfortunately Begg was born in Birmingham.

            We should recognise the Islamic state and ship out all the undesirables so that they may be issued with Islamic passports and become pariahs to the international community.

        • Suzy61

          ‘To all the Islamophobes that haunt this blog, it should be noted that Shami is a Hindu’

          Who said she was Muslim? Does ‘Islamophobia’ now include NOT pointing out when someone is NOT Muslim?

          Where does this nonsense end?

          • telemachus

            Suzy
            You know well that as soon as her name is mentioned the islamophobes immediately take to their metaphorical pens with rants about Muslims and rants about her defence of what they term her kind
            Shami, virtually alone in these times of witch hunt brings some reason to the debate

            • Colonel Mustard

              “Islamophobia is a word created by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate morons.”

              Given the state of the world and the record of terrorism any fear of radical Islam is far from irrational.

              But beyond that one of the most intriguing aspects of modern Britain is the way that the left and radical Islam appear to make common cause. Many on the left, like you, always quick to jump to the defence of terrorists and to excuse or attempt to justify their acts whilst at the same time denouncing any understandable concerns about the rise of radical Islam as bigotry or “Islamophobia”. You seem more concerned about radical Islam being slighted than the many thousands of its innocent victims all over the world.

              A good example of this peculiar tendency was the way you intervened when the video of the ISL “Caliph” was first released here to advocate giving him a “fair hearing” and referring to “Crusader Bush”.

              Extraordinary and troubling.

              • telemachus

                In case you cannot read
                And like the rest are guilty of islamophobic kneejerkism
                My posts have concentrated on giving a fair hearing to Shami
                She is no Muslim but folks of the right deliberately try to tar her with support of radical Muslim extremism
                The problem with the right is that they cannot forgive her for championing Liberty
                And they therefore try to destroy her with every stroke of the pen
                *
                And in your case anyone who defends her

                • Colonel Mustard

                  I can read well enough. She is a controversial figure who attracts positive and negative viewpoints about her activities. Weaponising her against the right is a cheap trick given her activities from 1997 to 2010 when New Labour threatened ‘Liberty’ as never before.

                  No-one here accused her of being a Muslim so your intervention was unnecessary and appeared merely an excuse to deploy the word “Islamophobe” against dissenting views.

                  The article is about Begg and his suspected terrorist activities or alleged innocence, citing her involvement. Her involvement can be scrutinised and commented on without you having to “defend” her. So wind your neck in for once and give it a rest.

                  God knows we need a rest from you here.

                • telemachus

                  I will not take lectures on Liberty
                  *
                  While on the subject of Begg
                  If he had information that may have saved the life of the Salford taxi driver, just why did the Foreign Office dismiss him
                  Could it be that the relevant desk was staffed by Islamophobes as well?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You don’t have any understanding of what Liberty means. You think that just because you are a strident champion of the left that you are entitled to presume the championship of liberty too.

                  In fact your accumulated comments here evidence the exact opposite. Your own extreme Stalinist politics threaten liberty and you seek to control, expunge or “proscribe” the views of others you disagree with.

                  Beyond your own pompous, inflated and hubris-crammed opinion of what you are and what you represent your comments speak for themselves and all are aware of what they convey. You are a methodist I believe? Well you certainly need to take lectures on humility from some of your ministers.

                • telemachus

                  I refer your nihilism and defeatism to one of the greats, Dr Sangster

                  Defeatism” is not a pleasing word, but it is a popular one. Its wide use indicates its serviceableness to those who want to describe the strange temper of the times, a compound of doubt, depression, and hopelessness. All spheres of life are infected. Statesmen feel it. They want peace, but they are so sure that they cannot get it that they bend their whole strength to the preparations for war.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  I do not dwell in nihilism or defeatism and it is time that you stopped labelling dissent with pejoratives.

                  In a free democracy I am entitled to express a different political opinion and should not be subject to your accusations of nihilism or defeatism, or revanchism, or any of the other labels you resort to because of it.

                  You mention Dr Sangster. I doubt he would have had any truck with you, the very antithesis of his own humility.

                • Donafugata

                  The self-righteous left have a moral certainty that is beyond question, Blair is the epitome of this delusion.

                • Suzy61

                  I think it much more likely that Begg had zero knowledge and even less influence.

                • telemachus

                  So why not call the bluff then?

                • Suzy61

                  Because a life was at stake. How could they possibly afford to play games with him?

                • telemachus

                  Not games
                  Information should have been obtained even if there was less than 1% chance that is would have led to a different outcome

                • Suzy61

                  Playing bluff is a game Telemachus, a dangerous one. His track record hardly serves him proud. I don’t think I would have gambled a person’s life on his say so. For me, he seems to enjoy his ‘infamy’ a little too much.

                • Donafugata

                  Begg was generously compensated for having been in Guantanamo.

                  He can now afford to work pro bono which is a way of reinventing himself as an anti-terrorist and Mr. Nice Guy, taqiyya permitting.

                • http://www.ophiuchuscube.com/ Hendrik

                  The government does not negotiate with terrorists, or traitors – and that includes Begg.

                • GraveDave

                  She seems to only want to championlLiberty for brown people/ extremists though. Strange – don’t you think?

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Everyone knows she is not a muslim. She is a rich human rights lawyer and therefore deserves whatever opprobrium we heap on her. Sister to Cheri Blair, but browner.

                • Erictheowl

                  And ex- New Labour Home Office lawyer, if I remember correctly, on very chummy first name terms with some of the real horrors from that era, Hariet,Patricia, Jacquie, et al.

                • Donafugata

                  Chakrabati is the one whose knees jerk whenever a Muslim is on a terror charge she feels the need to get them off.

          • Donafugata

            And anyway she, like Gareth Pierce who is defending Begg, is a £££awyer.

            • Jackthesmilingblack

              Wrongly convicted victim Gerry Conlon was laid to rest yesterday in Belfast.
              Speaking at the funeral of Guilford Four victim Gerry Conlon, his lawyer Gareth Pierce said that Conlon was a “victorious human being” who had “defeated a mighty foe”. Ms. Pierce has form for showing Authority in its true light. Criminal justice, a contradiction in terms.

              • Donafugata

                I haven’t “picked the wrong example”, Pierce is just behind Begg in the photo and is his legal representative.

        • Colonel Mustard

          You have no more knowledge of Begg’s suspected involvement in terrorism or alleged innocence than anyone else. Your intervention is both unnecessary and unwelcome, merely another excuse to tag the top comment and smear commentators whose politic views differ from yours.

          Bearing in mind your previous advocacy of ISL and the “Caliph”, asking that they and he be given a “fair hearing”, you might contemplate how it looks when you jump to the defence of a controversial character like Begg and whether it might be questioned if you do so on behalf of the Labour party.

          • telemachus

            I intervene as a responsible citizen who decries the kneejerk condemnation of individuals just because they were born into Muslim families
            All must be given a fair hearing
            And particularly as I stated Shami who is no Muslim

            • Colonel Mustard

              No you don’t. You intervene as a Labour-advocating troll and “High Sheriff” always tagging the top comment for maximum visibility of your attempted dominating and intimidating observations, most of which involve stereotyping and smearing dissenting commentary here.

              If you really believed “all must be given a fair hearing” then you’d allow others to comment in dissent from your political views free from your unwanted interventions and without tagging their comments.

              Ms Chakrabarti (I won’t repeat your bogus leftist inference of chumminess by writing ‘Shami’) is a controversial figure who attracts polarised positive and negative views.

              • telemachus

                You may dissent
                But you are wrong
                Views which destabilise our way of life must be attacked with maximum visibility
                Do not turn this party political
                It is about our survival as a tolerant peace loving society

                • Colonel Mustard

                  It is not for you to judge wrong and right. It is not for you to decide what views are destabilising, although there appears to be a lack of intervention from you whenever the extremist views of the political left or Islam threaten stability.

                  We are no longer a tolerant, peace-loving society but an increasingly sectarian one, mainly due to the divisive and destructive consequences of “policies” pursued by people just like you.

                  Having stoked up division and inequality leading to widespread resentment you now attempt to shut down dissent by attacking articulations of concern using intemperate language and hyperbole.

                  The activities of Islamic extremists here and across the world make “Islamophobia’ perfectly understandable and a natural human response. Since terrorists and extremists are “Islamic” and commit their acts in the name of Islam, fear or concern about the effect of that religion is a natural response. It is trying to suppress it by manipulating language that is dumb.

                  And it is very party political because it is mainly your party that has brought this all about.

                • telemachus

                  “We are no longer a tolerant, peace-loving society but an increasingly sectarian one”
                  So why
                  Could it be that the events of Thursday stoked by a jumped up failed city broker are promoting this?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Of course not. Islamic radicalism and terrorism has much longer roots. Don’t attempt to turn the symptoms into the disease.

                  Throughout the ages there have been outbreaks of Islamic radicalism and waves of aggressive Islamic invasion. You should study the history of Indonesia and in particular the roots of Hindu religion in Bali. Islam is not a natural condition of the ethnic indigenes of that part of the world.

                  The first glimmerings of potential problems here came from multi-culturalists attempting to suppress expressions of British culture and Christian religion for fear of giving offence. Curiously that was never labelled as a “phobia” although it was probably more legitimately one. That multi-culti aberration seemed to spread quickly throughout government and officialdom so that the host country’s long established culture, traditions and religion became merely one amongst many, all with supposedly equal standing. The “change” was presumed and progressed without consent. The very people who were entrusted to defend our institutions seemed to be the ones most prepared to abandon them and to espouse their tolerance to embrace intolerance.

                  It is only recently that there have been attempts to restore “Britishness” and they are invariably pathetic.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  You keep saying our Nige is a failed city broker. I thought he did very well. What do you mean failed?

                • Rik

                  Wrong it is about the survival of our society period.
                  Damn i shouldn’t feed the troll he will need a bigger bridge to live under

            • ADW

              Ah yes, born into Muslim families. Women born into such families are automatically deemed second class citizens. Now, if we had a proper separation of church and state, a muslim feminist movement equal to the suffragettes, and an insistence that the education system apply equally to all, then women would have a decent chance of escaping the grotesque handicap imposed by the ridiculous old men of that religion. Unfortunately, with useful idiots like you, and virtually all of Britain’s public servants, muslim born women are condemned to a lower status in the name of diversity.

              • telemachus

                Women born into such families are automatically deemed second class citizens”
                Not in this country they are not
                Muslim women are promoted by their families particularly to the professions
                I urge you to take a walk around Lincoln’s Inn and have a chat with the smart youg ladies wandering therein

                • ADW

                  You are therefore unaware of the scandal of first cousin marriages and all the girls taken out of school as soon as they hit puberty, or who are required to cover themselves head to toe unlike the men. Or are you aware, and callously dismiss it as an irrelevant minority, or do you celebrate it as diversity? The percentage of Muslim women at the bar is somewhat lower than the percentage abused in the way I mentioned, as if you would care.

                • Lusaka

                  Yes of course you will find practices that are outdated. However, things are changing, albeit slowly.
                  The same mentality as yours prevailed in southern Africa which denied the indigenous people their human rights on the basis of being ‘backward’.
                  I suppose you are just a natural bigot!

                • ADW

                  No, I am the one who wants bigoted practises removed from this country. That is the opposite of bigotry.

                • Lusaka

                  A bigot is someone who is INTOLERANT towards those holding different opinions.
                  Racial purity and its ilk died with the Nazis, or haven’t you noticed?

                • ADW

                  Thanks for invoking Godwin’s law. I have said nothing about race, here or anywhere else.

                  I am tolerant of a broad range of opinions. However, like everyone else on the planet, there are limits. I have no tolerance towards those who think for ludicrous superstitious reasons that women should have an intimate part of their anatomy removed in infancy.

                  I have no tolerance for keeping women from education, or imposing draconian dress requirements on them which have no male equivalent.

                  I am intolerant of those who think that invading sovereign countries without a clear plan for the aftermath and with no threat to ourselves is a good idea.

                  I intolerant of those who think there is no link between HIV and AIDS.

                  And so on. Which of the above are you willing to ‘tolerate’?

                • Lusaka

                  May I remind you that not very long ago witches were burnt at the stake, children were sent up chimneys, women had NO votes as they were the property of the men they were married to (hence the woman adopts the surname of the husband) and I could go on.
                  It all happened in England! However, the country progressed and gradually outdated practices were eradicated. Most of the modern inventions originated in the UK (Graham Bell, the Wright brothers, the world wide web) etc.

                  To take one example that you quote above, genital mutilation. This is a barbaric practice and my heart goes out to those poor women. Many bleed to death. Education is the only answer. By being intolerant and hate filled wont solve anything. What you take for granted in your country (like reading) is only a privilege for the few in most third world countries. Basic hygiene is unknown. Most people work a full day just to buy one meal. Basic medical facilities are not available.

                  To add to this grim list most of these countries have corrupt politicians lording over them aided and abetted by (some, not all) politicians from first world countries. If you were brave you would travel to one of these wretched places and spend sometime with the real poor and see for yourself.

                  Go to the Philippines garbage dump where people, including children try and salvage items to sell.

                • ADW

                  I am well aware of all you state, and specifically mentioned an action of western governments of which I disapproved – the Iraq invasion.

                  But you are missing the point. You called me a bigot when I am no such thing. I am someone who is concerned at the establishment of ideas and practises in the uk that have no place here. They have no place anywhere else either, but I can’t do much about that. It is not intolerant to oppose intolerance, ignorance and superstition. I deplore western “spiritual mediums” and astrologers just as much as third world superstitions.

                • Lusaka

                  May I wish you good day, Sir. I misread you earlier.

                • ADW

                  No problem, and thank you for the sort of civilised response that is sadly a rarity around here

                • Donafugata

                  Intolerance is the hallmark of Islam therefore Muslims are bigots.

                • Lusaka

                  Islam means peace to one and all. Islam cannot help it if some individuals choose to apply its tenets incorrectly and end up committing crimes and atrocities.
                  Remember each soul shall taste death. It is great equaliser. Those who have lived a life of virtue will have their soul exit peacefully. While those who do mischief and end up committing crimes will die in rage.
                  So before you slander a whole group of people, be wise and take care.

                • http://www.ophiuchuscube.com/ Hendrik

                  I’d urge you to walk around south of Brick Lane in London and TRY to talk to the women who are “happy to be” covered in bin bags .. big chance they are even allowed to talk to you.

                • Lusaka

                  On the one hand you hate them and the next you complain they do not talk to you!
                  Which is it?

                • http://www.ophiuchuscube.com/ Hendrik

                  I was answering telemachus.
                  But: I don’t complain at all they don’t talk to me. I want nothing to do with them.
                  And yes: I do hate them. Are you one of them?

                • Lusaka

                  So, one group goes around isolating themselves believing it is the right thing to do…..
                  and another going around with hate and rage….’ how dare they come to my country and behave like this……’

                  This looks like a good recipe for future trouble. Hate for hate’s sake.
                  Happy future to you, Hendrik!!

                • http://www.ophiuchuscube.com/ Hendrik

                  People in the west have bent over backwards for decades to accommodate their demands .. and we get beheadings, tube bombs and rapes in return as a thank you — and still they are not happy.
                  I return my hatred towards the followers of this horrible ideology as much as I get the hate from them.
                  And yes: my future will be fantastic! Unlike those hate preachers and their sympathisers, as people are waking up to the treacherous behaviour of many.

                • Lusaka

                  Hang on a minute there! Who killed Red Indians in the USA and Aborigines in Australia without mercy?
                  When the crusaders invaded Jerusalem they killed everything that moved. Nobody was spared!
                  While the Ottoman caliphate welcomed Jews who were massacred by Isabella and Ferdinand during the Spanish Inquisition. Enough said.
                  Remember no religion or race of people are totally clean or totally corrupt and bad.
                  Hitler was German but that doesn’t taint the entire German people with his crimes.
                  Your rabid hatred puts you in the same category as those you hate. You are at opposite ends of the same spectrum.
                  I disagree with a lot of people on many issues, yet I do not hate anybody. I have my say and move on.
                  Can’t stand Tony Blair generally, yet I admire his ability to ‘move on’ and get on with life.

                • http://www.ophiuchuscube.com/ Hendrik

                  You kidding me? You bring up stuff that was done centuries ago? I am not interested. What I see and experience is now – and that is what matters. (and I agree with half of your Tony Blair statement: I still think he should be tried for war crimes).
                  I don’t care if you put me in the same category as them – there are many more like me – and the number is growing.
                  We live in a free country, and I am allowed to hate people, and I do. For me it would be a matter of survival if islam would take over the world.

                  “Know thy enemy.”

              • Mynydd

                I would point out that in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland there is “a proper separation of church and state” and that it is legally binding that “the education system apply equally to all”. Now if this is not the case in England, then you must qualify your comment, after all, England is only one part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

                • Hole_in_One

                  Are you having laugh? We have enforced (by the Catholic Church) segregation jn education. You may wish to attend Ibrox of Celtic Park to research the benefits this “equality” brings.

                • ADW

                  The C of E still has bishops in the House of Lords ex officio, and these still have some residual power over the whole of the uk, so it’s not true to say the places you mention there is a total separation. Also, the queen is the head of the c of e, and despite any constitutional niceties about that is still the head of state for all.

                  More importantly, the equal education point theoretically applies in England, but in practise is rubbish since there are faith schools and among them plenty who deliberately teach bigoted cpvalues and distorted presentations of evolution.

            • Sarka

              Begg seems to have done rather more than merely being born…

        • nicholas kenyon

          My objections to ‘Shami’ have nothing to do with her ethnicity. It’s her definition of liberal that I object to: she screams ‘freedom’ whenever anyone from the left is accused of anything and remains mysteriously silent whenever a rightist (of any strain) is accused of anything that offends her delicate anti-racist/sexist sensibilities. Freedom of speech is indivisible, er, bitch

        • simon

          popular comment that

    • goatmince

      Chakrabarti? And then what? Have Grayling dictate what our hooman rites are and what aren’t? Knows this bigotry no end?

      • Swiss Bob

        You’re absolutely correct, Chakrabarti is a terrible bigot, just look at the very selective choice of ‘human rights’ cases she takes.

        Huckster and shyster are two words that come to mind.

        • goatmince

          How many hooman rites cases do you take, Bob?
          Will you let me choose them for you, du chlynes bigotli?

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