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It’s time we apologised to Assad – he had a point about those rebels

4 September 2014

6:00 PM

4 September 2014

6:00 PM

I saw MPs Peter Hain and Andrew Mitchell agreeing with each other on Newsnight about the need, now, to talk to President Assad, so that we might better combat the Islamic savages running amok in Syria and Iraq. Yee-haw.

If I could see, two years back, that Assad was infinitely preferable to the majority of those people who took arms against him, then why couldn’t our politicians? Do they really still cleave to the idiotic view that the Arab people are ‘just like us’ and are ready and waiting for a pluralistic, representational democracy, perhaps with the alternative vote in place for local council elections, and maybe Baroness Ashton and the Howard League for Penal Reform (‘can’t you just cut off his hand, rather than the whole arm?’). How could any sane person believe that?

Of course we should speak to Assad and, foul though he may be, first say ‘um…. sorry……you might have had a point about those rebels….’.

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Show comments
  • Dan Allen

    This is making the dreadful relative assessment that the lesser evil is a good.
    Syria is the real-world equivalent of The Daleks versus The Cybermen.
    Both sides are an appalling threat to freedom!

  • R Fairless

    Does it really surprise anyone that we got it wrong with Syria. I mean, a short while ago ‘Bomber’ Hague wanted to hurl bombs at the citizens, men, women and children and he was supported his boss, the ‘Eton Mess’ Cameron. What is in a man that he wants to commit murder.? From a safe distance of course. So, I conclude that none of the present leading politicians are to be trusted. There are regimes in the Middle East far worse than President Assad and the people seeking to replace him are extreme Islamists, hell-bent on eliminating non-believers. We need to make peace with Assad and help him defeat the terrorists whom up to now we have been supporting. Are there any Statesmen in Great Britain capable of bringing this about?

  • MathMan

    One thing is for sure – if Saddam had still been in power you wouldn’t have heard ISIS in Iraq. Having a ‘Strong Man’ in power, Ghadafi, Mubarack, Assad et al, is the only way these tribal folks can be kept in check. Sad but true.

    • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

      The only thing I would say about your comment is this : Saddam would indeed have assured that ISIS were never heard of and that would be good for “us” in the west. But not so good for all the Kurds and other Iraqis he massacred for so long. And would doubtless still be massacring now. I detest ISIS by the way, and would give three cheers if they all were vapourised right this minute, but more than anything else I give thanks I was not born in the MIddle East. Too many of us sit here, all these thousands of miles away from conflicts, and say “we must do this” or “we must do that” and then just go down the pub, watch T.V. or simply get on with our lives without any dictator or madman threatening us. We are lucky. ( And yes, I know someone will post in response telling me that we won’t be so lucky in the future when the Islamic revolution truly breaches these shores. And you would be right – if and when it does. But we are not there yet. Again, lucky us).

  • shebamurphy

    Welcome back Rod. I really missed you when you were away.

  • Zionist lackey

    Remember; those of you who oppose some kind of alliance of self-interest with Assad: we did exactly this in the Second World War when we formed a mutual alliance of self-interest with Joseph Stalin; who was responsible for many millions of his own people’s deaths in the 1930’s and during the Second World War.

    The dictum, my enemy’s enemy is my enemy, is as true today, as it has always been when it comes to geopolitics. Stalin was on an equal par with Hitler; yet the West saw the benefit of an alliance with Stalin in order to defeat Hitler: and so it is the case today with Assad. Assad is the modern Stalin and ISIS the modern equivalent of Nazism.

    Hypocritical it may be, but national self-interest must always be paramount. Anything goes in winning a war of national survival. Terms such as hypocrisy become water off a duck’s back when a nation’s survival may be at stake.

  • Donafugata

    As with Sadaam and Gadaffi, Assad has his uses, not very pleasant but better by far than the adherents of the Arabian vernal equinox.

    Rod asks a pertinent question, if supposedly well advised politicians can’t see what, for the rest of us is the bleedin’ obvious, then what hope have we?

    Last year Kerry was so hung-ho about helping those nice rebels who just wanted peace and democracy, he should be forced in front of Assad and given a very large portion of humble pie to eat.

    He has now been detailed to Ukraine to see if he can muck that one up.

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    I actually think the labour MP, speaks a lot of sense.

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    The political dysfunction at the heart of the Arab world, has prevented, truly pluralistic, inclusive, democratic, secular, politics taking hold. Islamist politics is a big part contributor to that dysfunction.

  • Diggery Whiggery

    “Islamic savages” ???

    You can’t say that Rod. Islam is the religion of peace. I think you meant to say “IslamIST savages” surely. Nuance dear boy, nuance.

  • Magz Zara

    President Assad was never a dictator nasty or otherwise.. The man was a Western Doctor with a Western wife..His mistake was allowing his Britishness to open the doors of Syria to ”refugees” and it would be wise to take note of the thanks he got..

  • Graeme S

    our supposed elected leaders have made a right mess of this , what do you suppose they talk about at he G10 meetings or what ever … I can tell you complete bolloxs

  • Peter Stroud

    And never forget: Cameron and Hague wanted to bomb Assad’s forces, and support the ‘good’ rebels. Thank God they were defeated.

  • Eyesee

    It is not just that we should ask ourselves why democracy doesn’t seem to work in tribal societies, but that we should wonder why it never occurred to us to find out about these countries before ‘helping’.

  • LordJustin

    The attempt to depose Assad had nothing to do with the terrorists and everything to do with trying to close Russia’s naval base in Syria and cut off Syrian oil exports to Russia. That’s why they missed the point about IS (or whatever it’s called this week). They weren’t even thinking about it, because it wasn’t the point. American diplomacy has always been weak on strategic peripheral vision and strong on instant media-appeal.

    Now, as we are seeing this week in Wales, the true agenda is NATO’s cold war strategy to justify increasing its military strength post Afghanistan and Iraq by demonising Russia about everything from gay rights to fantasy invasions.

    This has all the hall marks of the arms race between 1906 and 1914 that led to two world wars. Don’t let the Elite make you terrified of a few undisciplined Bedouin Bandits. Fear the Elite themselves, and silence their drums of war. The people spoke and stopped an invasion of Syria. They can do it again and stop the new arms race.

  • beenzrgud

    Yes Mr Liddle, our foreign polity does appear to be lacking. It really is starting to look like all the nasty dictators were in fact the least bad option.

  • Lagos1

    Perhaps Assad will “invite” Russia to carry out air strikes against ISIS in Syria once the Ukraine business is settled to Russian satisfaction.

    And then we can all say sorry to Putin instead and thank him for doing what the West can’t or won’t do.

  • Mike

    We want to come home “Mummy” we don’t like it here, say a number of UK Jihadists disillusioned with Syria.

    Those mentally challenged wannabee Jihadists probably thought going
    to Syria was Islams version of a fortnight in the Spanish Island of
    Ibizia with beheading as an alternative to getting wasted, a blow
    job in a bar and getting laid. I say tough, strip their passports
    off them and leave them in Syria to act as an example to others !

    But, I can see it right now. Cameron the apologist will pander to
    them, hand out ‘keep out of jail cards’ when the arrive at Heathrow
    and these killers will walk away without charges to do another
    Rotherham to satiate their frustrations. Some say that rape is akin
    to taking a life and these scum bags certainly fit the bill. As Lord
    Ahmed one of the few honest Muslim in the UK has said, its either
    rape or Jihadism these “disaffected” Muslim youths go for.

    • LordJustin

      This government is now so dishonest and amoral, there is a danger that MI6 will give these wannabe warriors a “get out of Jihad” card, put them on the payroll, and send them back to Syria to attack Assad’s government and close Russia’s Syrian naval base in the Med. Parliament said no invasion. But, don’t be surprised if these devious bastards recruit disturbed young men to do their dirty work for them – and worry about jailing them later, if they come home.

      • Ordinaryman

        We have been taught well about “dishonest and amoral” governments by the one which took us into an illegal war based on non-existent weapons of mass destruction.

        • LordJustin

          Amen to that. All governments are dishonest and amoral. The degree of dishonesty and amorality depends on opportunity and expediency. Or, as the saying goes, the scum always rises to the top.

    • Donafugata

      They probably realise they can’t lie around all day watching Sky and living off the Jihadi seekers allowance.

      Let them stay there if that is where their commitment lies.

  • swatnan

    Never apologise, or forgive. Did Churchill apologise to Stalin to get him to engage on the 2nd Front? No. Sometimes we just have to work with nasty people, to defeat an even nastier foe. And ISIS simply take the biscuit in nastiness. But no British troops in the field. It should be Muslims killing Muslims in these Civil Wars. Thats the best policy.

  • FrankieThompson

    Keep up the Baroness Ashton stuff Mr L.

    She epitomises so much that is wrong about New Labour/Britain

  • artemis in france

    Rod, you have been missed. When they showed a film about 18 months ago shot in Damascus, where all the women walked around as if they were in a Western city and ordinary folk proclamed their allegiance to Assad and their love of the city it didn’t take a soothsayer to work out that Assad mayn’t be our idea of a leader, but in Syria he was the best alternative. Preferable, certainly, to Gaddafi or Hussein, but they too don’t look so bad, do they? The problem is that our “leaders” have learned little since Iraq. What worries me now is that Assad is still not keen on intervention, although he may change his mind when Isil get closer to his chemical weapons, but if he doesn’t request outside help will Obama and Cameron still go in, all guns blazing? I do hope not. Assad is there, let him decide.

    • Mike

      If he’s got chemical weapons, at least use them on ISil and be done with it.

  • Sean L

    Yeah that’s why George Bush senior wisely left Saddam in place after the first Gulf war, before the delusional neo-cons took over via his son. Incidentally, it’s like you’re on an Auberon Waugh tip with Baroness Ashton. He’d similarly shoehorn such preposterous figures into his columns on the flimsiest pretext, such that for some reason their mere mention would become a source of amusement. Good stuff.

  • LoicMarsillac

    It appears that the strategy being followed by the hegemon in the Middle East involves the creation of a Thirty Years’ War-type of destructive-constructive dialectic culminating in the fragmentation of the major independent, non-aligned (with the American lead market-state system) states and powers in the Middle East. In the place of large nationalist, powerfully rivalrous regional states would be created ethnic/sectarian client statelets a la the Gulf States, militarily independently impotent. These permanently manageable non-nationalist, non-ambitious (militarily), almost thoroughly subjacent entities would of course necessarily form part of larger military and economic discipline-imposing zones and organizations: a Middle Eastern “Nato”-type alliance lead by the U.S./Saudi Arabia/Israel and of course a European Union-type neoliberal (or “market state”) economic bloc. In such a way and through such horrendous “birthing pangs” a (religio-culturally) “post-medieval” and (politically) post cold war-nationalist Middle East would arise, one finally approximating Europe, East Asia, and North America in its religio-cultural post-modernity and market-determined political “consensus,” albeit with a stronger residual flavoring of religiously-derived social conformity, a la Japan’s. The risks for the strategists of this longue durée scenario: a thoroughly demoralized, anarchized, and criminalized neocolonial society reminiscent of Central America’s and of other parts of Latin America.

    • Sean L

      Alllow me to paraphrase: the Middle East either becomes governable, in which case it will resemble other such polities. Or it doesn’t. In which case it will more resemble the latter regimes you mention. What other conceivable outcome could their be? A global caliphate? Nuclear obliteration?

      • lakelander

        Thanks. I was getting a headache.

      • Ordinaryman

        Well done!

  • ant

    Libya…

  • edlancey

    And, of course, the only man who knew how to hold together a dump full of warring lunatics like Iraq was Saddam.

    And, of course, the only man who knew how to hold together a dump full of warring lunatics like Libya was Gaddafi.

    And, of course, the only man who knows how to hold together a dump full of warring lunatics like Syria is Assad.

    • grammarschoolman

      Ditto Tito in Yugoslavia.

  • will91

    Remember when William Hague said in 2011 that: “We are only in the early stages of what is happening in North Africa and the Middle East. It is already set to overtake the 2008 financial crisis and 9/11 as the most important development of the early 21st century,”

    Right for the wrong reasons.

    • ADW

      That’s why it is such a relief that spectacular failure of a foreign secretary has gone.

      It is sad he never became more than a sixth form debater. He seemed to be troubled personally with at least two improper relationships. The FO said early on he was a waste of space.

      Just a shame his replacement seems equally useless.

      Meanwhile Hague and Dave’s war in Libya has given us a failed state there, the Mali uprising (ex Gadaffi supporters went home) and funding of ISIS. Thanks guys.

  • FootLong

    What does that say about our elites?

    • ManOfKent

      That they are anything but elite?

      • FootLong

        That´s why we need a semi-direct democracy like in Switzerland. To keep these people checked.

  • ManOfKent

    Cameron eat humble pie? Not much chance of that I suspect and anyway why would Assad accept it? Cameron wanted to bomb his forces not so long ago. No doubt Assad will be guided by his allies in Moscow.

    The price for co-operation might result in Cameron and others in Western EUrope having to eat humble pie on more than one front.

  • Baron

    And another thing:

    The West will not cure the jihadist boil by just bombing the IS thugs in either Iraq or Syria. Even if they were to be got rid of from the lands they currently occupy, they are very likely to re-emerge somewhere else, in one form or another, as they have done in the past.

    We should also cut the money flow, go after those who fund these groups whether there are in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Nigeria or anywhere else. And, above all, the West should also try and identify the mullahs who preach the evil, for it is the indoctrination of the mostly young by the preachers of hate that feeds the recruitment for the likes of IS, Boko Haram, al-Queda.

    • FootLong

      Qatar is builiding a great new mosque in Barcelona I believe.

      • Alexandrovich

        What an analogy, that it will be finished before the Sagrada Familia.

  • Baron

    The West doesn’t do sorry for its own mistakes, Rod, only for those of our forefathers. And the kissing Baroness is retiring anyway, she’s messed up big in Kiev, needs a well funded retirement to bask in that glory.

    • FootLong

      And now we have a little Italian communist in charge.

  • Ali

    Despotism is a legitimate form of government when dealing with barbarians. That bit of JS Mills isn’t very fashionable anymore so we turn to Tom Lehrer instead and decide to ‘send the marines, until someone we like can be elected.’

  • ohforheavensake

    So we should support someone who kills his own people? Really?

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Well, some fools support Obama, ahd he’s drone-killed his own citizens.

    • gerontius

      Yes. sometimes – if the alternative is supporting someone who kills even more people (whether they are his “own” or “someone elses” is beside the point.

  • HookesLaw

    Dear Mr Liddle – it was not rebels certainy not ISIS ones he was dropping poison gas on. It was women and children.

    • southerner

      You Camerloons never stop do you? How’s Egypt and Libya working out for you?

      • FootLong

        And they always think they have the moral high ground, just like lefties.

    • Alexandrovich

      And you know that because what…you were there?

      • arnoldo87

        Nobody on this thread was there, including you and Rod.

    • The Masked Marvel

      If you think Rod gives a selfish whining monkey’s about women and children with brown skin who live ‘over there’, and would ever support intervention in any circumstance, you are mistaken.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      It is your islamofascist buddies who are cutting off heads in Libya and Syria and Iraq, lad.

  • arnoldo87

    It all started three years ago, Rod, not two, when Assad started killing and torturing his own citizens who were fed up of his corrupt regime. This resulted in the original rebels starting to fight him. This force was moderate and mainly secular and they managed to gain the upper hand.

    At this time, the West had a chance to aid the rebels but chose not to. It was then that the Jihadists moved in. The tragic result of this failure to intervene is all too plain to see.

    It is rich of Rod and other non-interventionists to attempt to claim the high moral ground re. the ISIS situation, when the rise of the barbarians is a direct result of Obama’s pathetic foreign policy of non -intervention in Syria and withdrawal from Iraq.

    And Rod obviously thinks that Syrians and other Arabs who yearn for peace and justice will just have to accept his thesis that they really aren’t democracy material and put up with their brutal dictators for a few more generations.

    • Colonel Mustard

      I might have guessed you would be the sort to write “fed up of” instead of “fed up with”.

      Bored with.
      Fed up with.
      Tired of.

      Got it?

      • arnoldo87

        Of course, Colonel, you are quite right.

        Had to happen sooner or later.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …but you’re still waiting, as we see.

          • arnoldo87

            You’ve just conceded that I was right about the Colonel.
            Logic awry as ever, ginnie.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              is that fantastical gibberish supposed to mean something, lad?

    • FootLong

      Feel-good stuff.
      If Assad had fallen the Islamists would have taken over. Forget those three moderates of the FSA, it would have been just the way it is in Libya today where Al Qaida is on the verge of taking control of Tripolis or in Egypt where the Muslim Brotherhood seized power.

      • ADW

        Exactly.

      • arnoldo87

        Speculation, 12 inch.
        Non-intervention has got us into the state we are in Syria and Iraq.

        • FootLong

          Intervention on Assad´s side from the very beginning.

          • rodliddle

            Arnoldo mate, that is simply not true. It started with a localised armed uprising and very quickly was taken over by the lunatics. Footlong is absolutely right.

            • arnoldo87

              Rod – we all have our opinions, but I find that yours are rarely backed up with source material. Of course, all of us have to rely on media reports on foreign affairs, but have you got a source that backs up your assertion. Here is just one – from the Washington Post:-

              “The killing started in April 2011, when peaceful protests inspired by earlier revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia rose up to challenge the dictatorship running the country. The government responded — there is no getting around this — like monsters. First, security forces quietly killed activists. Then they started kidnapping, raping, torturing and killing activists and their family members, including a lot of children, dumping their mutilated bodies by the sides of roads. Then troops began simply opening fire on protests. Eventually, civilians started shooting back.

              Fighting escalated from there until it was a civil war. Armed civilians organized into rebel groups. The army deployed across the country, shelling and bombing whole neighborhoods and towns, trying to terrorize people into submission. They’ve also allegedly used chemical weapons. Volunteers from other countries joined the rebels, either because they wanted freedom and democracy for Syria or, more likely, because they are jihadists who hate Syria’s secular government. The rebels were gaining ground for a while and now it looks like Assad is coming back. There is no end in sight.”

              This article backs up my assertion that the original force was not Jihadist, and that they joined in later on. Had the West supported the original rebels the Jihadists would never have gained the foothold they have now.

              Having read this article Rod, do you still think that Assad was “infinitely preferable” to the people that took up arms against him?

        • MC73

          Yes that’s right. The problem with Iraq has been our lack of intervention.

          • arnoldo87

            Iraq in 2010 had stabilised following the US surge. The death rate had reduced to pre-war levels and they had a nascent democracy (although with a poor leader).

            The withdrawal from Iraq and the lack of Western intervention in Syria led to the current ISIS dominance in Northern Iraq and Eastern Syria. Policies that most people in the West agreed with.

            They were wrong.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …more cowbell. I need to hear that cowbell.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          No he put your fantasy ramblings firmly in place laddie.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      John McCain was photographed sitting with the “moderates”… who were pure islamofascists.

      Your post is pure fancy.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Of course it is he is a bona fide 22 carat socialist nutter who reckons Blair is as honest as the day is long.

        • arnoldo87

          “Socialist nutter” eh IM?
          Novel.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Rod Liddle kicked your socialist nutter backside lad.

            • arnoldo87

              Socialist Nutter, eh?
              Novel.

  • global city

    Apologising to a scum bag is a bit much Rod, but I know what you mean. I did write on here last year that I hoped that Assad wins, quite controversial at the time….I guess not so much so now?

  • Bonkim

    No need to say sorry – just bomb ISIS in Syria – whether Assad likes it or not. If possible get rid of both Assad and ISIS with one try. The people of Syria have suffered hugely – some more will not be any more painful. If they are any good can reconstruct Syria anew.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      The planes leave for there every day, lad. Get thee to the front lines, and get yourself into it, rather than blathering about it for others to do.

      • MC73

        Excellent idea VG, I’d be happy to donate a few quid to help the Liberal Expeditionary Force buy a few AK47s so they can get out and get intervening.

  • Pat Conway

    The civilians of Syria are caught between a tyrant and terrorists.

  • waveshaper1

    Can you imagine what we would be facing today if Obama facilitated the early departure of Assad by bombing his azz and fully supporting the FSA. ISIS would now have one of the worlds largest chemical weapons stockpiles, even more territory (all of Syria), and of course this would greatly complement their newly acquired US Armored Division, US Artillery, and unlimited US munitions.

  • Simon Denis

    Quite so. The whole notion of intervening and doing so on the side of “ISIS” was crazed; parliament rightly voted the proposal down. PC bigotry – every bit as foolish as the Bush / Blair prospectus for a de-Saddamised Iraq – prevents people from accepting that the Middle East remains in the grip of an unreconstructed, pre-modern religion. Why this should be so is something of a mystery, however; and how to deal with it in the short to medium term a terrifying conundrum. As to how we rescue them from their “mind forged manacles” – well, unrelenting propaganda on the lines of Radio Free Europe would be a start, but I can’t imagine the modern establishment liking that one tiny bit.

  • TrulyDisqusted

    Whilst we are at it, perhaps someone should apologise to Slobodan Milosevic.

    I seem to remember him stating that “when they start cutting of the heads of your citizens on your streets, then you will understand why this war is necessary” or words to that effect.

    Why is it when it comes to Muslims, the Western Elite always back the wrong camel? Anyone might be forgiven for believing that the Western Elite were being paid to use western troops as the cannon fodder in someone else’s wars?

    • ADW

      But the Muslim world was so grateful we intervened on their behalf, and Kosovo is today a shining success.

      Oh, hang on …

  • benbecula

    The strong centralizing force of dictators such as Assad and Saddam is precisely what the Arabs needed and suits their form of civilization. Despite being brutal murderers and prone to deploying chemical weapons on their own people, they are positive angels compared to the barbarian’s they are up against.

    • ADW

      Their form of “civilisation”?

      • Chris Morriss

        Well, it’s not our form is it?

        • ADW

          I just don’t think it merits the word “civilised” …

          • FootLong

            He was pushing it a little.

  • goatmince

    Peter Hain and Andrew Mitchell … who are these two chaps so poor they cannot afford to go on holiday.

    • Inverted Meniscus

      They still wouldn’t be able to avoid you and all of your sockpuppets lad.

  • Lady Magdalene

    Not a hope of getting Cameron to admit he was wrong.
    Assad is the least worst option on offer for Syria. He probably always was.
    These Middle Eastern countries run on tribal grounds. They will never be real democracies.

  • Brian K

    It seemed to me at the time that Assad was the only one prepared to defend the minority communities. That’s he’s Alawite himself gives him extra reason to resist.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Religious totalitarian nutters like IS make secular dictatorships where, if you keep your head down you can lead a decent life, quite attractive.

  • WatTylersGhost

    The Foreign Office has got it wrong time and again with its Middle East policy. Since Suez, not a single lesson has been learnt. Our natural ally in the region is Israel – the only country our government is unwilling to talk to. Unbelievable.

    • Chris Morriss

      Sorry, but one day all of the people who think that Israel is on “our” side, will suddenly see how wrong they are.
      Yes, we must somehow eliminate the scourge that is IS and their hangers on, but if possible we should not rely on an unwilling Israel to help. In the long run, Israel will be seen as part of the problem not part of the answer.
      In this I will be, sadly, a lone voice crying in the wilderness.

      • WatTylersGhost

        Well, they are most certainly on our side now. It’s just our government won’t recognise it.

  • Michael Ray

    Surfer Boy Dave was on 5 Live only this morning.He still doesn’t admit he was trying to back the wrong side in Syria.Either that or he hasn’t fallen in yet?

  • The Masked Marvel

    We have come full circle. Now Rod Liddle has reverted to the policy of the past and wants the West to prop up dictators again. Didn’t you Lefties used to say that was a bad thing?

    • GraveDave

      If Rod’s a lefty, I’m a selfish whining Monkey’s uncle.

      • The Masked Marvel

        Er, why do you suppose Liddle recently spent so much energy condemning the “faux Left”? What do you think the topic was of the article he wrote which got him sacked from the BBC for publicly expressing his political opinions? You seem to be aware of his recent book, so why do you think he blames Mrs. Thatcher for so much? How many non-Lefties do you know who want much higher taxes on higher earners. like Liddle does?

        One often marvels at how so many people assume somebody agrees with them on everything simply because there is agreement on a single issue.

      • Kitty MLB

        As a chap of integrity Rod left the Labour party over the Iraq war.His political views are still of the Leftist persuasion.

  • telemachus

    I know

    Let us have a grand Christian/Shia/Alawite alliance against the Sunni infidel

    *

    Obama/Assad/Rouhani will be a winning combination to crush the medieval warriors
    Cameron will trail along

    • Alexandrovich

      You’re floundering.

  • Kitty MLB

    The point is we may not have liked the atrocious dictators such
    as Hussain and the rest of them but I am loathed to say they
    kept the smaller dictators under control.Some assumed by us
    in the West removing such people that the Islamics would behave
    like us and have that “Arab Spring”. It was the Arab world’s
    responsibility to deal with their own dictators.
    They just like killing each other and will eventually come after the
    West..unfortunately with the situation there and what with Russia
    we may be heading towards WW3..I sincerely hope I’m wrong.

    • GraveDave

      There are some said we should have left the Kray twins in charge of the east end. Makes yer fink, dunnit. Have you read ,,,,

      Huge areas of Britain have become foreign colonies. That …

      http://www.independent.ie/…/kevin…/huge-areas-of-britain-have-become-forei...

      2 Jan 2009 – Kevin Myers … The shoppers — and there were thousands of them — were… heart of Cockney culture, with the Pearly Kings and Queens and which is, of course… Like all great cities, London had always attracted immigrants, who have … not the least of them being the rapid disappearance of role models for …

    • southerner

      And it was Call Me Dave and Vague who were at the forefront of all this gushing about how great the Arab Spring was and rushing off to Egypt and Libya to be acclaimed the hero.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        And remember, Dave interrupted his Mideast arms dealing junket, to go over and join the chorus line for the Arab Spring, cancelling his arms bazaar with the Mideast thugocrats to go hang out with all the islamofascist democrats. You really couldn’t find a better juxtaposition to demonstrate Dave’s muppetry.

        • FootLong

          The same elites that told us that the Arab spring was wonderful are the ones that are telling us that multiculturalism is the way to go at home.

        • southerner

          Exactly right. The sooner the Camerloons actually looked at what has happened / is happening and stopped mouthing what CCHQ tells them to say we might be in a better place.

  • ButcombeMan

    Excellent Rod.
    Common sense at last.
    If you want to be vague (about Foreign affairs) use Hague

    • telemachus

      Sense indeed
      *
      But we need a political action arm, not the vacillating fopp.ery of Cameron

      • ButcombeMan

        Or the even worse, the complete vacuum of serious policy and thought, given to us by Red Ed Milliband.

  • JoeDM

    Assad may well be a very nasty dictator, but when it comes down to the so-called ‘Arab Spring’ he has been proved right.

    For the west, Assad is the least worst alternative.

    • Kitty MLB

      The Arab Spring was a ludicrous word created by the West…
      more like eternal Arab Winter.

      • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

        Arab Jump would have been better.

        • telemachus

          Remember that it was thanks to Miliband that we are not there in Syria fighting shoulder to shoulder with ISIL

          • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

            no I don’t remember that, I do recall a funny chap with not much brain power jumping from one bandwagon to another but that’s about it.

            • telemachus

              Not only did he stop Cameron jumping in by his actions in our Parliament
              *
              But also the action stopped Obama in his tracks and led to Assad getting rid of his nerve gas
              *
              It was an auspicious start for when he takes charge of our foreign policy next May

              • Colonel Mustard

                He saved the world just like Gordon! You gush more than a fire hose faucet.

                • telemachus

                  And as Gordon saved the worlds banks from catastrophe so Miliband heir to Blair will get stuck in to rid the world of IS

                • global city

                  Is that an example of false consciousness you lefties used to go on about?

                • telemachus

                  What I mean is that we all yearn for a PM who has balls

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  So nobody from Fascist Labour then.

                • telemachus

                  By name and nature

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Desperate lad. Desperate socialist nuttery.

                • global city

                  Yes, balls, but not megalomania.

                • ManOfKent

                  Well if the Misfit takes power we will all be sadly disappointed then won’t we.

                • Noa

                  Then Nigel Farage is the man for you. Though I would prefer a real Parliamentarian like this man:- http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4674/geert-wilders-speech

                • FootLong

                  I agree, I am not sure if Farage really has it in the end. I hope he comes around though.

                • LordJustin

                  I hope he manages to stick it to Labour and the Tories “in the end” – the rear end.

                • telemachus

                  Following a racist comment by Geert Wilders last week, his party took a dive in the polls, and lost several members, including its lead candidate for the EU elections.

                  Holland’s populist Freedom Party (PVV) is experiencing a crisis after its leader, Geert Wilders, gave a speech to supporters last week on Wednesday (19 March).

                  The PVV leader addressed the crowd at a conference following the local elections, asking the audience: “Do you want more or less Moroccans in this city and this country?” The party’s base answered: “Less! Less! Less!”

                  The incident has dominated political debate in the country since Thursday, as Wilders’ political adversaries expressed their dismay over Wilders’ comments.

                  Diederik Samson, leader of the socialist PvdA party, was one of the politicians accusing him of racism. “What Wilders did is inciting hatred. This can be prosecuted,” he said.

                • rodliddle

                  I think what Wilders said was pretty appalling. It’s “fewer”, surely, not “less”.

                • LordJustin

                  More importantly, what Wilders did was use bad grammar. I could never support someone who doesn’t know the difference between “less” and “fewer”.

                • telemachus

                  As I said courtesy of the Vicar

                  *

                  We are seeing evidence of alliance between Wilders, Farage, Le Pen and ‎Nikolaos Michaloliakos
                  *
                  “Marine is just one of many dominoes falling all over Europe, beginning with anti EU sentiment, progressing into morosité. It began with Nikolaos Michaloliakos of Golden Dawn in Greece, jumping on the anti EU bandwagon which has descended into neo-Nazism and chaos. There is also Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, he and Le Pen recently allied to discuss disintegration of the EU.

                  In Britain we have Nigel Farage. Like Madame Le Pen, he too comes from a privileged wealthy background, but slums it – or pretends to, in order to win the support of the working class. Both posit themselves as outsiders – distanced from the major parties that comprise the duopoly in both countries.
                  *
                  Can we send them all to the North Pole? A white colourless landscape that would suit them just fine. Unless Putin invades there too, of course.

                • Colonel Mustard
                • whattheflip

                  Yeah Ed Balls. Not sure why that’s a good thing tho

                • LordJustin

                  Personally, I dread a PM who has Balls! Cameron is bad, but better the devil we know, than the devil we know even better…

                • Tim Hall

                  And turn water into wine, no doubt.

                • chudsmania

                  ‘Saved the world’ Its in Hansard. 😛

                • The Laughing Cavalier

                  Thank you for my morning chuckle.

                • gerontius

                  ??

                • LordJustin

                  or, to put it in Labourite-speak: I thinks therefore I IS, innit bro.

                • Chris Morriss

                  Faucet? Nozzle surely. I start to suspect that you’re another American operating under cover!

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Drat! Rumbled!

                  I ride an old Paint and I lead an old Dan
                  Goin’ to Montana to throw the houlihan
                  Feed them in the coulees, then water in the draw
                  Their tails are all matted and their backs are all raw

                  Ride around, little dogies, ride around them slow
                  For the fiery and snuffy are raring to go

                  Etc.

                  Yee-ha. Y’all. Etc.

                  Seriously, whilst I admit to having friends in the USMC, faucet is from the Middle English by way of France.

              • Inverted Meniscus

                No lad he shat his pants because he was being outflanked by UKIP. You’ll be telling us that the preposterous, duplicitous little stinker has principles next. He is just another unprincipled fascist Labour idiot.

                • telemachus

                  He leads a party that is united in their desire to make life in Britain better
                  And to regain our standing in the world
                  *
                  Not a split party obsessed with our relationship with Brussels

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  No lad he’s a worthless, duplicitous, preposterous coward who broke his word to Cameron when Farage outflanked him.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  “He leads a party that is united in their desire to make life in Britain better”

                  That has been their stated desire since the Fabians first slithered out from under their rocks but in 90 odd years they have never managed it and instead invariably made life more miserable instead.

                  You can keep boasting about the intentions but until you come to terms with the consequences your self-elevated pedestal and halo will remain tarnished and blood stained.

              • Seadog

                What text book do you read your answers from?

              • realfish

                NO.

                Rod forgets that we were supporting a Syrian coalition including the Free Syrian Army, who were in turn dealing with the few Islamist terrorists that were making a nuisance of themseslves.

                All Miliband did with his showboating (and reneging on an agreement to support the Government) was to create a vacuum that allowed Assad to crush the FSA…and kill tens of thousands in the process – he didn’t have to use nerve gas, he had barrel bombs.

                Miliband’s vacuum allowed ISIL to take root. His grandstanding (remember there would have had to have been further votes before action was taken to impose a ‘no fly zone’) was a devastating blow, a disaster for the country and the west, our place in the world and not least people in the middle east.

                I have no doubt that Miliband has blood on his hands, the question is why did he do it? Was it;

                – because he saw an opportunity to poke Cameron in the eye?
                – because he wanted to ‘play’ with the big boys, striding the world stage?
                – because having been brought up in a Marxist incubator his reflexive empathy was with Putin and his client Assad?
                – or simply because he was thick and out of his depth.

                • telemachus

                  Had he not taken a stand, Obama would have crushed the only stability we have in Syria
                  ISIL would be in charge in Baghdad and millions of Christians and Aluwites would lose their heads

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Had the Millipede joined with the islamofascists in Syria, many Millipedes and Camerloons would have lost their heads in May 2015, courtesy of UKIP.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  It was because UKIP rumbled him, and threatened to steal his votes.

              • DazEng

                Hmmm. Now I wonder if that same Hero will display such keen intuition about Russia?
                Doubt it, seeing as his future EU pension would be affected by it.

              • ManOfKent

                Er no. Miliband does not yet command anywhere near a majority in the HoC and therefore could not stop a united government. It was Tory rebels and Libdems who stopped Dave but don’t apologise. We expect Labour to try and steal other people’s credit

                • telemachus

                  Miliband gave the rebels the backbone
                  *
                  I worry about the lack of leadership of our country
                  Which compounds the vacillation at the top in the US
                  *
                  Oh for the days of Bush and Blair
                  And of course Condi

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Clegg was for bombing Assad, and helping the islamofascists, remember.

                • Mynydd

                  Tory rebels and Lib Dems do not command anywhere near a majority in the HoC, it’s simple maths. It was a combination of Labour, Conservative rebels and Lib Dems stopped Dave government in its tracks.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  The Labour MPs shat themselves for fear of UKIP taking their seats laddie. That’s why Miliband jumped ship. Otherwise it would have been send in the troops as usual.

              • Cyril Sneer

                Assad getting rid of his chemical weapons was more down to a sensible and astute Putin than any influence the Millipeed could’ve exerted.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Must be a disappointment for you not to be fighting shoulder to shoulder with ISIS. You could have gone and met your hero Al Baggypants and told him how much better a man than George Bush he is. Charismatic and caring no doubt.

            I expect you could have had a whip round here to pay for your ticket. No shortage of doners I reckon!

            • telemachus

              We are now into serious territory
              The time for mockery is gone
              We have them all in Cardiff
              Let us get some corporate agreement to firstly bomb IS to glory
              And then get in there by whatever means to help the Kurds and Shias from the South finally crush these barbarians

              • Alexandrovich

                He’s not mocking the situation, he’s mocking you.
                Where you’re concerned ‘it’s always mockery time’.

                • telemachus

                  The mistakes that repeat themselves throughout history are due to the tendency of the short sighted to shoot the messenger
                  *
                  I only wish we could rely on Cameron to lead us in this war against the IS barbarians
                  *
                  They threaten to behead a Brit next
                  Just what is Cameron doing

                • global city

                  He’s running scared of SWP, ‘Stop the War’ and other treacherous left wing bastardry.

                • telemachus

                  If so he is doing nothing to redeem himself

                • Colonel Mustard

                  “treacherous left wing bastardry”

                  Excellent!

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  How about pernicious left wing bastardry? I like that as well.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  “Treacherous left wing bastardry” perfection and you rarely see perfection. Permission to borrow your excellent phrase.

                • global city

                  LoL! be my guest

                • Alexandrovich

                  Okay, just for a moment, forget the bigger picture. Now, as you’re so concerned about this Brit and his possible beheading, tell us, in practical terms, how you would save him.

                • Alexandrovich

                  Come on Tele, my thumbs are sore through all this twiddling.

              • global city

                Well said (for once)

              • Inverted Meniscus

                He’s mocking you and who wouldn’t you puerile idiot.

            • Chris Morriss

              No shortage of Doners? Well, no, I expect that kebabs of all sorts will be plentiful out there.
              Potential donors to fund it all might be hard to find though 🙂

          • Alexandrovich

            You’ve obviously and conveniently forgotten that it was Nigel Farage that read the runes correctly and reflected public opinion to the Media.

            • telemachus

              An absolutely typical irrelevant comment
              In these weighty matters affecting our standing in the world and the safety of our children we recognise Farage as an irritating gnat at the table

              • Inverted Meniscus

                All of your Fascist Labour comments are irrelevant lad.

          • chudsmania

            It was the House of Commons not Milipede. Edited for accuracy.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            It was thanks to Nigel Farage that the Millipedal idiots didn’t jump into the Syrian disaster the same way they jumped into the Libyan disaster, lad.

            Absent Farage, the Millipedes would have lovingly supported their islamofascist buddies, as always.

      • LordJustin

        or, more correctly, the Western media, who are heavy on catchy titles and light on facts.

      • Gary Wintle

        The Arab Spring was genuine, but the Sunni schemers in Saudi Arabia are wealthy and duplicitous, and can get away with anything becuase they own our leaders.

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      Correct but this was obvious 2 years ago as well so why were DC, Hague and the other western powers trying to get us all to agree it was right to overthrow him: from Day 1 the Syrian Christian as said they would be slaughtered if Assad went.

    • Damaris Tighe

      For the minorities of Syria as well.

    • Bonkim

      Get rid of this beast at the same time.

    • Chris Morriss

      And it wouldn’t do any harm to make a few overtures to Iran. Persia was a great culture while the rest of the Middle East were still working out the best way to cook a goat. Why they got rid of their indigenous Zoroastrianism for Islam is a wonder, but until the overthrow of the Shah, their Islam was only skin deep. There’s hope for them yet.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Agree. They’re a proud people who’re very keen to let us know they’re not Arabs. But I doubt they voluntarily got rid of their indigenous Zoroastrianism. Forced conversions & punative taxation of non-muslims would have done the trick.

        • Conway

          A joy we have in store for us unless we act quickly.

    • CO Jones

      As, with similar hindsight, were Saddam and Gaddafi.

      Unpleasant characters all, but who would seriously argue that the world is better for their removal?

    • Julian Clegg

      Bashar Al-Assad is neither nasty nor a dictator. I suggest you watch some of his subtitled speeches and his English-language interviews with media such as CNN and Fox to get an idea of his personality and policies.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        He’s a more impressive figure than is often caricatured, I agree.

        I’m not sold on him, by any means, but I’d rather him than many others.

    • Callan

      So Putin and Rod Liddle and a few more were a little more knowledgeable than Cameron. Well, well.

    • Gary Wintle

      Sunni Wahabist Saudi Arabia funds these ISIS nutters, and the CIA trained them.
      Saudi Arabia is the source of the problem.

    • Aldabaran

      You are right of course. But the ‘West’ i.e. strategic planners in the US, see Syria as a piece on the chess board held by Iran and Russia and they want to get Assad out no matter what—they are the ones who have been prepared to see Syria’s citizens uprooted, Islamic extremism boil, and one of the ancient lands of the Middle East turned into a burnt-out wreck in a protracted and agonizing struggle to get what they want. The propaganda mills have worked incessantly trying to show that Assad (who is clearly the victim of aggression by the West) as a monster. Hague and Cameron should be remembered eternally for the way they went along with this infamous and cynical exercise which destroyed a country.

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