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How can Jews oppose Muslim anti-Semitism without being ‘Islamophobic’?

2 September 2014

7:00 PM

2 September 2014

7:00 PM

On Sunday there was a rally in London demanding ‘zero tolerance’ of anti-Semitism. About 4,500 people gathered in front of the Royal Courts of Justice. Speakers who addressed the crowds included the Chief Rabbi, Maajid Nawaz and me.

Among the things I told the crowd was to expect more and to demand more of their ‘communal leadership’. Long-term readers will know that I’ve never had much time for communal leadership of any kind. I don’t like the groups who claim to speak on behalf of all Muslims – groups which disproportionately represent a politicised and fundamentalist hard-line interpretation of their faith. And I don’t like groups that have claimed to have speak for the ‘gay community’ (whatever that is), tending as they do to be leftists who believe anyone identifiably ‘conservative’ is their enemy. Jewish communal leadership is an equally mixed blessing.

Just last week there was an example of how such leadership can be counter-productive to the interests of the community it claims to represent. The Board of Deputies of British Jews (BoD) co-signed a letter with the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB). This letter – which has already attracted a good deal – made it to the front-page of the BBC’s website. It was also the most terrific shot in the communal foot of Britain’s Jewish communities. What the Board of Deputies apparently did not realise in signing a joint letter with the MCB is that it was not only harming the long-term situation of Jews in Britain but also devastatingly undermining moderate and progressive elements within the Muslim communities.

In endorsing the MCB as a legitimate partner, the BoD was doing something that successive British governments have resisted doing. Two of the most powerful objections to the MCB concern its attitudes towards Jews. First, there was its historic decision to boycott Holocaust Memorial Day. Also, in 2009 a senior leader of the MCB was found to have co-signed the ‘Istanbul declaration’, a document which appeared to advocate attacks on British ships should they take any part in the blockade which aims to prevent weaponry being shipped to Hamas-run Gaza. This incident caused the last Labour government to sever ties with the MCB.

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So the UK government – acting in part on behalf of British Jews – wherever possible avoids dealing with the MCB. Yet here is a communal ‘leadership’ organisation, which claims to speak for Britain’s Jews, endorsing and working with that very group.

At Sunday’s rally the grassroots anger with the BoD really boiled over. When their names were announced, Vivian Wineman and Laura Marks from the Board of Deputies were booed. Even before they even spoke, a scornful chant went up from the crowd: ‘You need to do more’. Wineman and Marks claimed that the BoD was at the forefront of fighting anti-Semitism. Marks amazingly attempted to prove just how effective the BoD was by proclaiming that initiatives like the joint letter with the MCB ‘don’t just come from nowhere’. Indeed. They come from a communal leadership group intent on signing side-deals with a Muslim organisation that they should shun.

But I do pity Jewish leaders trying to deal with this issue. It isn’t easy. First there is the problem of failing to identify the enemy. On Sunday Maajid Nawaz identified the principal source of anti-Semitism today. It is not the far right, as in the past, but the far left and the Muslim communities. This is true, though it is a subject most Jewish leaders wish to keep a million miles away from.

One of the rabbis who also spoke, Laura Janner-Klausner, tried to summon up the spirit of Cable Street in her remarks. ‘They shall not pass’, she declared. A noble sentiment – and one I wholly support – but the question of ‘who?’ is quite important, isn’t it? Who shall not pass? Nazis? Tick. The British Union of Fascists? Tick. But that was 80 years ago. Who shall not pass today? Surely we need to know before blocking the streets against such a foe?

And even when they do nod to the problem, the Jewish leaders has trouble addressing it. The Chief Rabbi followed the example of the Board of Deputies by condemning ‘anti-Semitism and Islamophobia’ as though they were more or less identical. But they are not. ‘Islamophobia’ remains a nonsense term that encompasses anything felt at any time to offend any Muslim – including facts. Moreover, in its justifiable desire not to appear sectarian, the Jewish leadership can undermine its own cause. Why is that?

Well, no less a witness than the left-wing Muslim firebrand Mehdi Hasan has said that ‘anti-Semitism isn’t just tolerated in some sections of the British Muslim community; it’s routine and commonplace’. Just last year Hasan wrote: ‘Any Muslims reading this article – if they are honest with themselves – will know instantly what I am referring to. It’s our dirty little secret.’ He went on: ‘To be honest, I’ve always been reluctant to write a column such as this. To accuse my fellow Muslims of being soft on the scourge of anti-Semitism isn’t easy; I feel as if I am “dobbing in” the community… [But] as a community, we do have a “Jewish problem”. There is no point pretending otherwise.’

Now this causes a problem, doesn’t it? Because the claim made by most Jewish and non-Jewish mainstream voices is that the Muslim extremists constitute a tiny proportion of the Muslim population in Britain and other Western countries. They maintain that the ‘vast majority’ are overwhelmingly ‘moderate’ and opposed to all such extremist views. Yet when it comes to Jews it would appear – as Hasan implies – that a very large proportion of Muslims, perhaps a majority, are anti-Semitic. So how do Jews oppose Muslim anti-Semitism without being ‘Islamophobic’?

These are difficult waters and ones we are all going to have to navigate. But the booing of the crowds in London at the weekend signalled an interesting shift in opinion over the general ability of these communal groups to do any good. As one Jewish friend I spoke to afterwards put it, were this the 1930s the Board of Deputies would not be standing on Cable Street shouting ‘You shall not pass’. It would be busily doing side-deals with the British Union of Fascists.

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Show comments
  • sina

    My goodness you are sharper than I am these days. I must try to rid myself of this headcold.
    درب اتوماتیک
    کرکره برقی

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    The problem with the term, Islamophobia, is that, its so vague. Anything perceived as being vaguely critical of Islam, can be termed Islamophobia.

  • http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html TNT

    Talk to any ‘moderate’ Muslim for any length of time, and you will see that he or she is in complete accord with their knife-wielding co-religionists in the desert. Their goal for the human race – to be enslaved under a global caliphate – is universal.

    I am proud to be Islamophobic. Islam is disgusting.

  • Sage Ham

    Apologies for the terrible spelling!

  • Sage Ham

    There are two communities that created and art of daft declarations, idiotic groupism and down right stupid alliances with the enemy. The first community were the Eastern Orthodix communities. They have been appeasing the Islamic conquest for 1400 years. See where they are. They are so stupid (Armeniens, Copts, Syrians, Iraqi) that they become anti Isreal to appease Mooslems right wing. The other are Jews. Jewish rabbis were the supporters of the mosque at ground zero. The leftists are not disintegrating Chirstians and they will have the same fate

  • YehudaPa

    Who cares if someone is Islamophobic? If they are, then there is good reason to be.

  • jesseventura2

    And you wonder why jews and muslims are hated?
    If there were no jews or muslims we would have better world order?

  • Matthew Meadow

    This post:

    The problem with Islam: ‘Allah’ is a 100% perversion of the image of God.

    Islam the core values:

    http://tinyurl.com/pczu3oq

    A Message to President Obama from a former Muslim:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqNH0hDqVu4

    was being pulled by the moderator, what is the problem? Is the Spectator becoming Islamophobic !?

  • PickledOnion

    Islamophobia is a misappropriated term. It should mean fear of Islam. But like the term homophobia it as become the default definition of hatred of Muslims and of course Gay people.

    Now everyone who has an announce of common sense should be an Islamophobe. Anyone who doesn’t fear Islam is an idiot. Islam via a variety of proponents has made it clear what it thinks of us infidels and what it has in store for us.

    If that makes me Islamophobic then great. If you aren’t then you are an idiot so take your head out of the sand and wake up.

  • edithgrove

    This riddle in the reporting of a beheading of an 82 year old lady in her garden in Edmonton: the officer in charge says, “Whilst it is too early to speculate on what the motive behind this attack was I am confident, based on the information currently available to me, that it is not terrorist related.” But a paragraph earlier I read the attacker had converted to Islam a month ago and one line of inquiry will be whether he had viewed the tapes of beheadings on Youtube. We are faced with Rotherhamspeak everywhere we turn.

  • Excuse me

    I would suggest that to really provide the differentiation demanded between “moderate Muslims” and Islamists, the moderates need to go on jihad–against the Islamists. Pick up arms, head for whatever hell-hole ISIS, BOKO HARAM, or HAMAS is hiding in, and shoehorn them out, and eliminate the threat people acting in the name of Islam pose to the rest of the world. Why make the non-Muslim do it? It’s a Muslim problem.

  • Excuse me

    Anyone who is not “Islamiphobic” is not keeping up on world events. I say arm all the Jews in Europe as fast as possible.

  • Physiocrat

    It’s Methodists one has to watch out for. They are on the march and will take over the world. You can blame John Wesley for that.

  • Zanderz

    ‘Moderate’ Islam is a left wing construct. It doesn’t actually exist on the ground. Nice article summing up the situation.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/moderate-islam-is-multiculturalism-misspelled/

  • Raine

    A sane and rational article.It’s convenient and PC to speak about the “moderates” – in effect this distracts from the main problem. I would also like to hear the “moderate” voice. The police are told to describe terrorism as “international terrorism” rather than “Islamic terrorism” – which is what it the terror threat is. But government does not want to offend…

    • Excuse me

      Yes, only Muslims are subject to being offended. Hospitals in France must take crosses off the walls, bacon removed from Subway menus, American flags removed from an apartment complex–it all “offends” Muslims. Is anyone offended by the scenes in the streets of Paris with hundreds of Muslims, butts up kneeling on prayer rugs, clogging the streets? Are people offended my Muslims on the dole, plotting jihad?

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    “We’re going to murder six million Jews and five postmen.”

  • English Majority

    I’m gonna be honest: I don’t think we can rely on the Jewish community.

    Israelis are brilliant, and I love their Nationalism and fire. But Jewish people here seem to be way too Liberal, too willing to ally with Muslims, and seem to want to erode free speech (not that we have it anyway, like).

    That said, we all have a common enemy. And that enemy is Islam and immigration.

    Not ‘Radical Islam’, or ‘Fundamentalist Islam’, or ‘Islamic Extremism’.

    Just Islam.

    Any other details/differences can be sorted out after the Dawn.

    Friend of my Friend and that.

    • Damaris Tighe

      But doesn’t Douglas make the point that the Jewish leadership is disliked by many Jews who don’t feel they represent them?

      • English Majority

        Yes, yes. But I just think Jewish people are particularly Liberal.

        Don’t get me wrong: I realise Whites have just as much Liberals/Leftists etc.

        • dsiminiuk

          Not correct. The majority of American Jews are liberal, whereas the majority of American whites are conservative. However, the liberal Jews are integrating and intermarrying and as a result are losing their own heritage so they will move from Jewish to white/secular over time. The more observant Jews (toward the Orthodox religiousity) are more conservative, are preserving their heritage, not intermarrying and aren’t going anywhere. In any case, the USA will be gone before any of that shift in demographics even matters.

        • MissDemeanor

          and yet Israel takes a much much much much harder stance on terrorism and would never ever allow thousands of kids and young women to be raped and abused for fear of being called a name

          funny that

          • English Majority

            Yes.

            As I said above: I love Israel’s fire and Nationalism. But Jewish people in Britain and the West in general tend to be overwhelmingly pro-multiculturalism, pro-immigration

            Could be wrong.

    • MissDemeanor

      i’m jewish, i know hundreds of jews in this country (i guess i’m popular and have a ginormous family), not one of them would be ‘too willing to ally with Muslims’
      I have no idea where you get this insane notion from ,but it’s completely untrue

      but what is true, is that while my ancestors have fought side by side to your ancestors, today I feel unprotected and unsafe in my own country, sold out to rabid fanatics, canary-in-the-mine-style. If my own country doesn’t care about my safety because I’m a jew, then why on earth should I care about my country?

      • Excuse me

        I like your name, and I applaud your big family. May it grow bigger, wealthier, and gain influence.

    • Nicholas I

      “Israelis are brilliant, and I love their Nationalism and fire” ???

      They ae parasites, living off of American and German taxpayers. And they need to cheat, spy, commit treason, subvert other nations, cause wars, etc. just to maintain their military occupation of their stolen land. I don’t see anything to admire.

      And “islamophobia” is a jew racket to destroy Britain and Europe.

  • Matthew Meadow

    The problem with Islam:

    ‘Allah’ is a 100% diabolic perversion of the image of God.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Well said.

  • terryuno .

    The question should be: How can non-Jews oppose Jewish racism and Jewish Supremacism in Israel without being called an anti-Semite?

    Jewish groups in Europe and the U.S would not tolerate any group in Europe or the U.S being denied basic human rights in the same way as Palestinians are.

    If human rights are to have any meaning they have to be universal and apply to all people.

    • GAM

      Why is that the question? How many people have been killed by Israel in the past few years? Compare that number to the number of people killed by radical Islamists and you’ll see that Israel is nothing more than a scapegoat used by the extremists to distract people from the true atrocities being committed.
      While I sympathize with the innocent Palestinians caught up in the conflict, I can’t help but believe that Hamas holds the key to their future. They can continue their violent path which has brought the average Palestinian nothing but misery, or they can abandon violence and accept the reality which is Israel, and create a better life for their people. The choice is theirs.

    • Epidermoid

      “If human rights are to have any meaning they have to be universal and apply to all people.”

      But Muslims do not accept universal Human Rights. How could they? Jews are an inferior people and must be conscious of their humiliation whenever it can be achieved. As this is not often, you can imagine the fury.

    • Guest

      LOL

      oh if those evil jews were only as tolerant and peaceful as those lovely muslims..

    • Excuse me

      Jewish racism? Jewish Supremacism? Within the border of Israel there are about 8 million people. 75% are Jewish. 20.7 % are Arabs. The rest are a mix. All are free, and as an example, Arabs serve in the Knesset. It might be better to question Arab Muslim racism and supremacism. How many Jews are in government in…Lebanon? None. How many Jews in the country? None. How many Jews in Iraq? SInce 1948, when there property was stolen and they were either killed or kicked out, none. And so it goes. What does HAMAS’ charter call for? The DEATH OF ALL JEWS. BTW don’t confuse the Arab occupied West Bank and Gaza with Israel. Israelis do not govern there, the place is full of sworn enemies of Jews. What would make you happy? If ISrael just lets them in and says “kill us if you must”?

  • extoryagent2

    Phobia = fear, nothing in my dictionary about ‘irrational’. Show me the man who does not fear people who chuck bombs at him.

    • dsiminiuk

      “a persistent fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths in avoiding, typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational.”

  • The_Missing_Think

    The moment I get banned from this site, as I have been its sister publication the Telegraph blogs, I am buying train tickets for London… the MET.

    And all my insurance policies are going on the table.

    Westminster et al, will not be 2015 happy about that.

    • eddie333

      You need to up your medds mate
      before you take the trip to london I suggest you click on your own profile name
      all your posts are still there
      including the one you repeated 3 times
      loon

      • Damaris Tighe

        I think the opportunity to comment on an article on the joooz has caused him to blow a gasket.

        • The_Missing_Think

          Hypocrite, your team regularly get up-tight, and do something about perceived racial violations.

          You know… the ‘Zero Tolerance for Anti-Semites’ march?

          I note you’ve conceded born means born, well done.

          • Damaris Tighe

            calm down dear

    • David Booth.

      I don’t know what you’re on sunshine but it’s not the gear you thought you were buying.

      • The_Missing_Think

        Of course you don’t know what I’m on, it’s called the moral high ground. Click the link if don’t believe me.

        Thanks for the tacit.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      You get banned from the Independent for making the slightest negative comment about their Liberal Arts Muppet journalists. The Independent has to be the worst named MSM publication. “Establish Lackey” would be far more appropriate. Face it, Britain’s got too many national newspapers.
      Jack, Japan Alps

  • Mike

    There is only one from of Islam and we judge it as we see it. There is no radical, moderate, militant, peaceful, forgiving or any other flavor of Islam & Islamic culture.

    Brits have always been seen in a stereo type manner with good reason and many times including warts and all. Likewise the French, Germans, Italians and Spanish are stereo typed for their own peculiarities. We are what we are and we get judged by the obvious traits we portray. Muslims and their religion Islam are no different and they are judged by the public face thats portrayed coming from their communities.

    If Brits dont like the stereo typed public image of binge drinking by a minority of us then its up to the majority to do something about rather than complain how others see all of us. With Muslims, its no different, if you don’t want to be tarred with a brush that makes you all Jihadists or rapists, stop whining about it by playing that victim card and just fix your problem.

  • The_Missing_Think

    Go live in Israel, your racial hatred is trashing our lands, look what you’ve done to America… any chance of an article on that?

    Why not Speccie… huh?

    Or London?

    • MissDemeanor

      you’re missing something all right..

  • The_Missing_Think

    Filmed it all. Everything deleted… because I’m too Rotherham.

    You’re going to be arrested for these race crimes.

    • The_Missing_Think

      Thanks for the support Team Dreg, that’s why the name stings, because you are.

  • The_Missing_Think

    Those white trash rape and torture victims were protected by the delete key, exactly as ‘Eddie’ the Zionist is today.

    I’m filming it, it’s llegal, and I’m prosecuting the anti-white doing it.

    If you feel so strongly, to be breaking race laws as a ‘professional’, go live in Israel.

    Filming your race hatred for prosecution.

    • eddie333

      What’s being deleted mate?
      Every reply you made to me is still here.
      But please let me have the youtube link when you put it up
      I could do with a laugh

      • The_Missing_Think

        Might just do that, that’s why I filmed it with a fresh browser tab showing it happened, time stamped wth this internet clock.

        http://www.online-stopwatch.com/online-clock/

        Comments are closed culture is no myth.

        Still no direct answer?

        Is Israel an enthno-nationalist state, yes or no?

        • eddie333

          “Noun – ethnonationalism (plural ethnonationalisms)
          A type of nationalism which defines the nation in terms of a shared ethnicity.”

          “An ethnicity, or ethnic group, is a socially-defined category of people who identify with each other based on common ancestral, social, cultural, or national experience.Membership of an ethnic group tends to be defined by a shared cultural heritage, ancestry, myth of origins, history,homeland, language (dialect), or even ideology, and manifests itself through symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine,dressing style, physical appearance, etc.”

          “Is Israel an enthno-nationalist state, yes or no?”

          Yes and no.

          I know you wont like that answer and I’m not trying to avoid your question – but it is impossible to give you a definitive answer.

          It’s true that Israel is (for the most part) a jewish state and encourages jewish immigration. However whilst 75% of the population is jewish at least 20% of it’s population are non jewish arabs – muslims and christians.

          Then consider the fact that the jewish population is also very ethnically diverse comprising jews from all five continents and with skin colours ranging from the palest of pale to the blackest of black.

          Personally – for these reasons I don’t think you can label Israel an ethno-nationalist state without sounding disingenuous.

          Put it this way – if you were looking for a textbook example of what you call an ethno-nationalist state then you would not choose Israel.

          • The_Missing_Think

            Well done, two weeks in the making, was it an issue for you?

            This quote proves you wrong, in attitude, it is ethno-nationalist, hence the forced expulsions. Something no crumbling white society is even allowed to discuss in public, let alone do. (I filmed this quote being repeatedly deleted by the ‘free speech’ Spectator some time ago, still got those films as well).

            “ISRAEL will expel 400 native-born children of non-Jewish foreign workers to help
            safeguard the country’s Jewish identity”.

            http://www.theage.com.au/world/israel-to-expel-400-children-20100802-1139p.html#ixzz3ASq3rv4D

            • eddie333

              And you base your whole “ethno-nationalist” argument on that one incident?

              Seriously?

              Meanwhile the arab population of Israel has increased from 150,000 in 1948 to 1.7m today?

              Israel sure sucks balls when it comes to ethnic cleansing huh?

              Have you any idea what a clown you are?

              • The_Missing_Think

                So it’s fine with you if we start forced expulsions as well, yes or no?

                – No… that would be wrong, because that would be ilegal and ‘racist’. whereas, with Israel, that’s ok because… well… it’s where my true loyalty is, as a European Zionist.

                Yes or no?

                • eddie333

                  Well I don’t live in Israel mate – I live in the UK

                  So I can’t vote on what they do in Israel

                  I only have a say (vote) on what happens here

                • The_Missing_Think

                  And I don’t know all those facts already?

                  So to clarify:

                  In your view, a state can enforce racially profiled expulsions from within its lands, and it doesn’t prove it’s an ethno-nationalist state?

                  Ok fine, I’m sure you won’t mind if it becomes an adopted cultral practise to other ‘Western democracies’, I’ll remind you, and all your fellow Zionist loyalist, of that stance, if it happens in Blighty. What’s good for the goose…

                • eddie333

                  This is from the link you posted….

                  “Under the new rules, children born to foreign workers who entered Israel legally, and who have lived in Israel for five years or more, speak Hebrew and are enrolled in an Israeli school, will be eligible for permanent residency.”

                  So in reality it was only the ones that didn’t meet these criteria that were not permitted to stay. 800 out of 1200 met the criteria and were allowed to stay.

                • The_Missing_Think

                  Yeah, I’ve read it. It confirms that Israel has enforced racially profiled expulsions in the real world, this cannot be disputed or re-spun.

                  It also states:

                  “On the one hand, this problem is a humanitarian problem, we all feel and understand the hearts of children,” Mr Netanyahu said. ”But on the other hand, there are Zionist considerations and ensuring the Jewish character of the state of Israel.”

                  … “But on the other hand, there are Zionist English considerations and ensuring the Jewish English character of the state of Israel England”

                  Whites would never be allowed the same parity, due to the very same Zionism. ie… the BNP’s 100% voluntary policies. They were shredded.

                  “We work for a multi-ethnic Brtiain”. UK’s JCORE.

                  … ensuring the Jewish English character…

                  Can you see the racial hypocrisy yet?

                • Damaris Tighe

                  What on earth are you talking about. Netanyahu is the PM of Israel, not Britain. He has never commented on, let alone thought about given the more local problems on his plate, the immigration policies of the UK.

                • The_Missing_Think

                  Silly me, and I thought Daid Cameron was the Israeli PM and that.. no, I didn’t did I?… dearie me… have we got a tacit ‘I can see the com…par…i… son being made, of the two Western democracies, it does look like a solid case, edie333’s gone for one of his 11 day meditations… hmmm… tricky… I could always straw-man it… yes, that sounds good, just hope the fact that I cannot offer an argument doesn’t get spotted… why hasn’t his comment been deleted? Where has my right to zero tolerance of ruffled feathers gone?.. this is what we marched for after all…

                  So are you ok with racially profiled forced expulsions from Britain, regardless of the fact they were born here, same as Israel does, for the same above argument Israeli PM Netanyahu uses?

                  Or is that different… by chance? Huh?

                • eddie333

                  Yes I can see your hypocrisy very clearly
                  Your stupidity too

                • The_Missing_Think

                  Spit it out then… or are you bluffing?

                  I challenge your credibility, here and now, you have no moral argument, just your ruffled Zio-feathers, you’re bluffing.

                • eddie333

                  Really?

                  This one incident is what you hang your whole argument on?
                  Because some of the children of migrant workers (not Israeli nationals) were not allowed to stay in Israel for not meeting clear criteria?
                  And yet the ones that met those criteria were allowed to stay? Even though they were/are not jewish?

                  And that is your whole argument?

                  Let me ask you a question now.

                  Do you have a problem with ethno-nationalism per se?

                  Or just “zionist” ethno nationalism?

                • The_Missing_Think

                  Again, no, but even on its own, why do you down play enforced racially profiled expulsions as a minor incident, it happened and it’s a valid test case, and PM Netanyahu’s “there are Zionist considerations and ensuring the Jewish character of the state of Israel.” is pretty strong stuff, any white PM saying the equivalent for whites, would be incinerated as a ‘racist’. As well you know. The JWC quote on the subject of white ethno-nationalism…. is very, very anti. here look

                  And I’m not a hypocrite for pointing it out thanks.

                  You asked me about Israel’s ethno-naionalism before:

                  “Or is it just israel you have a problem with sunshine?” Eddie333 – 21 August 2014

                  I replied “No I don’t, I just want the same as Israeli Jews”. which hasn’t changed at all, I just want parity for whites, not more.

                  So, I’ve replied and refuted honestly, your turn again, as the above comment, can you see the racial hypocrisy, yes or no?

                • eddie333

                  I “down play” it because I dont think its that big a deal.

                  Two thirds of the migrant workers’ children mentioned in that article were allowed to stay.

                  The ones that did not meet the set criteria were not.

                  I think – if anything – it’s you that is “up playing” a nothing story.

                  Meanwhile the non jewish population of Israel has increased ten fold since 1948 and comprises 25% of the total population.

                  Compare those figures to every arab country and every muslim country where the jewish population of each has massively decreased since 1948 as a direct result of persecution and forced expulsion.

                  That’s REAL forced expulsion for no reason whatsoever – not imagined. And I’m talking about lawful citizens of those countries – not transient migrant workers. These are communities that existed for centuries.

                  The Muslim countries (arab and non-arab) have ethnically cleansed themselves of 97% of their jewish population since 1948.

                  “I just want the same as Israeli Jews”.

                  How long have you lived in Israel?

                • The_Missing_Think

                  ‘Israel is a civilised Western democracy’… We’ll call that ‘apple’.

                  My quoted compaison is between apples and… apples… got it?

                  You’ve just compared ‘oranges’ (Muslim states) with apples.

                  That’s a huge fail, as I’m not a Muslim, in a Muslim state, nor have I ever said it, as all the quotes quoted show, this is between whites and Zionist, NO-ONE else, try again.

                  Better than your Muslim straw-man effort, you’re clearly pro-ENFORCED racially profiled expulsions regardless of birth rights, that stance is conceptually well beyond BNP policies. But for some strange reason, I presume you reserve the right to label their VOLUNTARY repatriation policies as racist and utterly grey uniform at will, in a zero tolerance, march down the road with a banner way?

                  Your response validates the accusation. You still loathe the BNP’s pro-white ethno-nationalistic stance intensley, but think nothing of it when Israel goes well beyond their mild policies.

                  You’re happy marching against the BNP, but you are BNP+ for Israel… says it all.

                • eddie333

                  ‘Israel is a civilised Western democracy’..

                  Yes I see what you mean….

                  Because Israel is not a barbaric 7th century religious autocracy and does not advocate the murder of homosexuals or wife beating or the marrying of 9 year old girls or the summary beheading of “infidels” etc etc that obviously means we should judge it much more harshly when we compare it to other (muslim) countries that do all those things?

                  Right mate?

                  In other words – if Israel wasn’t a civilised western democracy – and was not labelled as such – then you would have no problem whatsoever with whatever it did?

                • The_Missing_Think

                  No, but remote distant events of no effect, are far less important than local ones, such as the stuff already covered.

                  You’re not a Muslim, you’re a Zionist defending the accusation that since 1948 European Zionism has became racially hypocritical, not Israeli Zionism.

                  I’ve made my case, I’m happy with it, I appreciate your efforts in this debate, but please leave Islam out of it, it’s irrelevant on this point. The subject is as defined and thrashed out, are European Zionist practises racially hypocritical?

                  I say its an obvious yes, see above, if you can’t prove otherwise, it’s a valid point.

                • eddie333

                  Thanks for the discussion

                  I’m also happy with the case I’ve made to you.

                  I mentioned Islam in my OP because the title of this article is as follows….

                  “How can Jews oppose Muslim anti-Semitism without being ‘Islamophobic’?”

                  For the record I don’t think Israel is a perfect country – I would never say it is. But then again which country is perfect?

                  I don’t think it deserves to be demonised in the way that it is by the left wing when the glaring faults of so many other “culturally different” countries are completely ignored.

                • Isahiah62

                  so what color are the JEWS in your world?

                • Isahiah62

                  Obviously It is just israel you have a problem with !!!

                  what about 100% theocratic ethno-states that did racially cleanse over 500,000 non Muslims? and Gaza? In 1945, around one million Jews lived in Jewish communities residing in Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Syria and Yemen……first the Saturday people now the Sunday people…

                  no compensation, no right of return, no worldwide myths about their “stolen” lands, no money from governments trying to install terrorist states

                • Damaris Tighe

                  There ARE forced expulsions of adults & children in the UK who under UK law shouldn’t be here. And a lot of people agree with this. Of course there are do-gooders like the people who tried to stop the expulsion of a schoolgirl from the UK a few months ago.

  • The_Missing_Think

    I’m warning you, I’m filming this Rotherham style cover up racial abuse… you could be arrested, us whites ae human beings as well, or are you disputing this fact… huh, deleter?

    “This can be black or white”

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/2/1/6/3

    Section 9. Explanatory notes. (2010 Equalities Act).

    You sure about that?

  • Mark McIntyre

    Moi = Antisemitic + Islamaphobic + Antichrist !
    Evolution really should have seen-off religion / superstition by now.
    Reason = the culmination of knowledge through investigation and discussion

    • Richard

      Actually, reason is not as pervasive as you might think. In Africa, it barely exists.

  • LordJustin

    The problem, as it always has been, is not religion, but politicised religion. And that goes for Islamists, Zionists, large parts of the Catholic World, and the contemporary, but equally zealous, religions like socialism and environmentalism.

    Britain’s strength lies in the secular form of government we have managed to evolve over centuries under the very nose of an established church. A christian country run by agnostics – a masterstroke of smoke and mirrors unprecedented in human history, and beyond the ability or comprehension of almost everybody EXCEPT the British.

    However, other peoples continue to evangelise their religions – both old and new – for political goals. To fight the problem, we must remain vigilant. Accidents apart, if they say it, it’s probably not true.

    So, when self-appointed or volunteer leaders advocate that their “we”, need to team up with “them”, be afraid, be very afraid. There is a bigger picture that you need to stand back to see. And that is almost certainly the awareness that the divide and rule politics of modern government is diluting their power and influence, and they need to team up to flex their muscles to effect – at least for the time being…

  • hyperides

    For a start we should drop the terms ‘antisemitism/antisemite’ (invented by those who wished to hide their prejudices behind a quasi-scientific word) and use ‘Jew-haters/Jew-haters’. That makes the thing explicit instead of covering it daintily. The Board of Deputies is, alas, scarcely more representative of the views of British Jews on major political issues than the MCB, and displays its incompetence (or maybe just its reading of The Guardian) by issuing a ‘joint statement’ with Jew-haters. It is up to the Jewish community to bring the BoD to task for this – but the BoD has a long history of living in a world of its own.

  • Robertus Maximus

    I am sorry Douglas, but I cannot read an article by any writer still suffering from ‘The vast majority’ syndrome, e.g. ‘The vast majority love all unbelievers and want only good for them’. It is slavish forelock tugging to the political correctness that most of us threw out of the window years ago. Get up off the floor, stand upright, and never demonstrate such unbecoming obeisance again.

    • Damaris Tighe

      As Daniel Greenfield posted on http://www.FrontpageMag.com of 2 September, ‘moderate muslims’ are secular muslims, ie, those who don’t follow their religion. I expect there are many middle class ‘muslims’ in the UK who were born to muslim parents but are now non-religious or atheists.

      This is an important distinction because Islam is an ideology which, unlike skin colour, can be chosen. That’s why I’m relaxed about excoriating Islam but not about antipathy to people simply because of physical racial characteristics.

      As for why such secular ‘muslims’ aren’t demonstrating against muslim atrocities, it’s always difficult to mobilise people who by definition aren’t ideological & just want to get on with everyday life. And to get people on the streets in the first place requires leadership & organisation – which as a muslim poster here has confirmed, is a potentially dangerous business when you are a muslim campaigning against jihadism.

      • Robertus Maximus

        The trouble is, Damaris, they can get onto the streets to protest about Israel. I am afraid I am rather less accommodating in my views as, when push really does come to shove, I think they would instinctively side with their co-religionists, of whatever ideological intensity. After all, it seems most of them do attend the mosque and attend to their ritual prayers throughout the day, so they must have more than a passing acquaintance with Islam. It would be nice if you are right but I have my doubts. Thank you for replying, by the way.

        • Damaris Tighe

          “they can get onto the streets to protest about Israel” – yes but these are motivated activists, not the people I’m talking about. That’s the whole point: Muslims aren’t one group (any more than Jews are) & the people we keep asking to come forward are the least organised, the least engaged & the least activist. They don’t attend anti-Israel demonstrations & the women don’t wear religious clothing. I don’t know where you got your information about regular mosque attendence & daily prayer, but this would not apply to the group I’m talking about who are secular & so by definition don’t do religion.

      • Mike

        Very True and no different to many ex-Christians like myself who although brought up a practicing Christian based on our culture and upbringing, we’re now atheists..

  • artemis in france

    Very difficult for Jews to délivre a strong message without the help of gentilles like us. Hasan is being honest and quite humble in his article (a first as far as I know), but I doubt many other Muslims would admit the same. And why should they hen so many bien-pensants and even some deluded Jews continue to criticise Israel for defending itself? As it happens, one of the reasons I generally admire Jews is that they don’t seem to feel the need to convert everyone else to their faith and certainly wouldn’t consider it by threatening murder. This should be enough for any objective person, but may well be the reason that Islam holds them in such contempt – that and all the stuff in the Koran saying they should be murdered.

  • JoeDM

    Islamophobia is a perfectly respectable response to Islamofascism

  • thomasaikenhead

    “How can Jews oppose Muslim anti-Semitism without being ‘Islamophobic’?”

    Well a very good start would be for Jewish community leaders to publicly condemn the violent physical attack on George Galloway?

    Whatever their perception of his views, they damn themselves by failing to point out that it is unacceptable to assault an elected British politician.

    They place themselves alongside the Muslim community leaders who failed to condemn the abuse of English children by gangs of Muslim men of Pakistani origin.

    Where is the real leadership shown by either group?

    • Mike

      Thomas the assailant was not Jewish but a RC so should they be condemning the attack

      • thomasaikenhead

        Mike,

        Is your comment correct?

        The Daily Telegraph article. ”Jewish carer’ denies George Galloway attack” on September 1st 2014 would suggest otherwise?

        Attacker Neil Masterton stated;

        “I didn’t want him to think I’m scared, Galloway is Anti-semitic and I am Jewish.”

        The failure of Jewish community leaders, and British politicians, to condemn an extremely violent physical assault on a 64 year old man by a man of 39 remains a damning insight into their values and prejudices and serves as a public exposure of their vested interests and narrow, parochial mindsets.

        • Mike

          I did read the following:

          Little is known about Masterson, and strict rules govern all comment in the UK press prior to any trial beyond the briefest details of the alleged offender’s name, age and address. However, a Facebook entry for a Neil Masterson reveals that not only is he not Jewish or Israeli, but he is Catholic. And according to reports based on his Facebook entry, he has taken a strong dislike to Galloway because of the MP’s left-wing policies including a well-documented dislike of Israel and Israelis.

          Came from the Jerusalem Post but would need other sources to confirm.

          • thomasaikenhead

            Mike,

            “Little is known about Masterson…”

            Simply not correct and I cited a Daily Telegraph article that DID know about him and quoted him as stating clearly that he is Jewish.

            I think that the DT is a more credible source that Facebook or the Jerusalem Post!

            As for MP George Galloway, he does not dislike Israel OR Israelis but simply objects to certain policies of the current Israeli administration.

            He should be perfectly free to express his views without being subjected to violent, physical attack, after all that is what democracy is all about!

            • Cheradenine

              Masterson’s Facebook page reveals his pro-Israel/pro-Jewish obsessions. At one point he claims to be a Catholic, but the page is, in fact, full of anti-Catholic invective.

            • Epidermoid

              “As for MP George Galloway, he does not dislike Israel OR Israelis but
              simply objects to certain policies of the current Israeli
              administration.”

              A classical antiSemitic defence. Galloway is a thuggish Jew hater of a type seen in the 30’s. He did not deserve to be assaulted, just mocked and prosecuted when he goes too far.

              • thomasaikenhead

                Epi,

                Condemning a viscous attack upon an elderly man simply for his political views has nothing to do with anti-Semitism at all.

                As for your pathetic attempt to smear George Galloway as a thug, in case you have not noticed he was the victim of the cowardly assault.

                Call him a Jew hater in public or in print and he will, quite rightly, sue you accordingly and undoubtedly win.

                There have been no grounds whatsoever for him to be prosecuted, in fact quite the opposite, he usually brings court causes when he has been defamed and wins!

                • Pelo Nord

                  Galloway is clever enough never to get caught out using the J-word and is the master of staying within the law; it’s always Israel and Zionism onto which he vomits his unrelenting stream of invective and hatred.
                  But as long as he never says anything against JEWS he’s OK, yes?
                  Most of us aren’t fooled.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Pelo Nord,

                  He stays within the law because he is a law-abiding citizen and is, quite rightly, able to use the law to protect his good name when he is defamed or wronged.

                  He is not trying to fool anyone, he has always been quite clear about what he thinks.

                  You may not agree with him objecting to the IDF killing thousands of Palestinian civilians in Gaza including hundreds of children and maiming thousands more, but it is a valid and legitimate viewpoint and justifies his opposition to Israeli government policy.

                • Pelo Nord

                  Nah, don’t buy it. He objects ” to the IDF killing thousands of Palestinian civilians in Gaza including hundreds of children”. Fine.
                  Where’s his frothing rage when his friends (enemies of USA & Israel) do far, far worst. Where are the colourful adjectives and appearances at rallies for these countries.
                  His good name? If you think the way he does then I guess that’s what it is to you.
                  If he spoke about Islam the way he speaks about Israel would you still so highly of him? Of course you wouldn’t.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Pelo Nord,

                  Israel cannot have it both ways?

                  Israel and it supporters cannot keep (falsely) proclaiming it to be the only democracy in the Middle East, a modern country subject to the rule of law and yet continue to repeatedly unleash one of the most powerful military forces in the world on the unarmed population of Gaza killing thousands and thousands of them and think that it can continue to be an accepted member of the international community.

                  This is the problem for Israel, it desperately wants to be accepted by the international community but it cannot conform to the conduct required to enjoy such a status.

                  The demographics are also working against Israel, in a generation the number of Arabs within Israel and the Occupied Territories will outnumber the Jewish citizens and so Israel will be unable to remain a Jewish state and also a democratic state.

                  As for George Galloway, he dies indeed enjoy a good name as he has repeatedly and very successfully dealt with those who attempt to slander, smear and slur him and is clearly popular as he has repeatedly been elected in the UK.

                  As for Israel and Islam, one is a state and the other is a religion thus they cannot be compared.

                • Pelo Nord

                  Nah, don’t buy it. You think of him as having a “good name” because his views coincide with your own.
                  Where’s his rage and hyperbolic denigration of Islamic states where death tolls are vastly higher? He’s a humanitarian surely, so the deaths of any innocent people must mean the same to him wherever they are or whoever the perpetrators are, no?
                  If he spoke about Islam the way he does about Israel would you still consider him a man with a “good name”?

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Pelo,

                  The Muslim states that you refer to do not claim to be modern, democratic states that merit acceptance by the international community as Israel does.

                  They know that they are autocratic, despotic states that are not accepted by the international community and accept that designation.

                  The problem for Israel is that it craves acceptance but does not conform with the values and conduct that merit it as the latest mass slaughter in Gaza makes very clear.

                • Pelo Nord

                  So George’s ire and hatred is based on Israel’s claim to be a modern democratic state – he’s annoyed by the country’s false perception of itself?

                  If Israel announces to the world that it’s autocratic and despotic, Mr G will re-think his position?

                  Israel doesn’t crave acceptance as is quite evident by its f*ck you attitude to the rest of the world when it comes to defending itself and it’s doing very well as a high-tech innovations powerhouse and a capitalistic one too, a damn good reason for Mr G to loathe it as would most members of the far-left.

                  It’s perhaps rather easier for Western democracies to ‘conform with the values and conduct’ when they’re not surrounded by ‘autocratic, despotic states’ who have waged war on Israel numerous times in the past, seeking its detruction, although this is dismissed as ‘hasbara’ by the anti-Israel brigade for whom Israel can do no right.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Pelo,

                  It is really simple, George Galloway and many other people in the world dislike the Israeli government policy of repeatedly using the IDF to massacre the civilian population of Gaza in Operation(s) Cast Lead, Pillar and now Protective Edge.

                  They dislike seeing one of the most powerful professional military forces in the world, paid and supplied primarily by the US, but also in a minor way by the UK, killing hundreds of innocent children and maiming thousands more.

                  You may care to endorse such policies but most people do not.

            • Pelo Nord

              “he does not dislike Israel OR Israelis”
              That actually made me smile – thanks for that at least.

    • MikeF

      “They place themselves alongside the Muslim community leaders who failed to condemn the abuse of English children by gangs of Muslim men of Pakistani origin.”
      No they don’t. The assault on George Galloway – which was utterly reprehensible – was the isolated act of a lone individual and there is no reason to suppose Jewish community leaders had any prior knowledge of it. They are under no obligation to disassociate themselves from an act with which they had no connection whatsoever.
      The rape of children in Rotherham, in constrast, was a systematic campaign of abuse lasting over a decade that was known to the leadership of the local Labour Party including Muslim councillors, senior council officers and the police – it seems likely, therefore, that it was known about amongst the local ‘Pakistani’ community as well. There is no comparison between the two situations.

      • thomasaikenhead

        Actually they do as he stated that he was Jewish and committed the assault for that reason.

        Why would they NOT want to condemn a vicious physical attack on an elected British politician?

        • MikeF

          Because, as I said, they did not instigate it, incite it or have any prior knowledge of it that might have enabled them to prevent it. What you want them to do is to establish a linkage – however spurious in reality – between Jews in general and this attack that would justify anti-semitic sentiment elsewhere. They are not that stupid.

          • thomasaikenhead

            MikeF,

            I never claimed that they did, I merely pointed out that by failing to condemn such an attack they have adopted a similar stance to Muslim ‘community leaders’ who remain silent on topics such as the child abuse in Rotherham and anti-semitic activity in the UK.

            After all, the attacker has made quite clear WHY he conducted his attack, has he not?

        • Nate

          Actually the guy that beat up galloway, Neil Masterson is catholic.

          • thomasaikenhead

            Not according the The Daily Telegraph!

  • Richard

    Eventually the self-imposed lying will cease, and it won’t happen in a pretty way. Labour’s way of dealing with the situation was (and will be again, after the next election) to force people together, no matter what. Objections were (and will be again) brutally repressed. Pressure-cooker Britain will explode, and then there might be some sort of peace, but it will be a peace in which people keep themselves very separate.

    • Cheradenine

      And the Muslim demographic goes on doubling every 11.5 years.

      • Richard

        At a minimum.

  • Wadi Trumpet

    And you’d be a member of the BUF. If it weren’t for the Muslims, you’d hate the Jews instean.

    • Richard

      I think there is more reason to hate the Muslims than the Jews. Just look around you if you can’t see what those reasons might be.

      • Cheradenine

        Who let the Muslims in, in 8th century Spain and in 20th century Europe?

        • Richard

          Jews in the UK are as likely to vote Tory as Labour, according to research. In the UK, this was all started by Labour in 1948 with changes to the nationality law. Although there are prominent Left-wing Jews, there are also prominent Conservative ones (at least, when Britain still had conservatism, which it doesn’t, anymore) and the Jewish demographic is tiny. From my experience, the CoE are the real loony-lefties, and that is wherever they may be found around the globe. Huddleston in South Africa was a prime example. Even Switzerland has a growing population, and there are no Jews there to speak of. This is squarely a civilisational decline of the West, and the creation of the people who voted in the clueless political parties.

          • Cheradenine

            They are not solely responsible, for sure, but their role has been significant. It is primarily Jewish lobbying that has led to the introduction of “hate speech” laws throughout European civilisation, including Britain in particular. These laws prevent the problem being discussed.

            In general, Jews are vastly overrepresented among the ranks of journalists (I would estimate a 10x – 30x overrepresentation) and tend to use their positions to push the benefits of multiculturalism, diversity and immigration. They are also vastly overrepresented among the ranks of MPs.

            Similarly, if you trace the origins of key ideas that have delegitimised the natural wish of Europeans to retain a society inhabited by people of similar ancestry themselves, you almost invariably find that Jews are at the root of it. I’m thinking of Franz Boas and his disciples who spawned the entire pseudoscience of anthropology, the Frankfurt School who invented the “prejudice as pathology” line that still lives on today in concepts like “Islamophobia”. Further back, there is Karl Marx.

            In general, we see a picture of an alienated minority looking askance at Europeans and their civilisation and generating influential systems of ideas that portray it as “sick” and in need of disruptive transformation.

            • Richard

              I agree with what you say in part, but Jews are over-represented (demographically-speaking) in many fields, including music and science. It is known that Ashkenazi Jews have IQ scores about one standard deviation higher than the rest of the white population (there is a strong correlation between IQ and success in life) and so this is predictable. In other words, the brightest are over-represented, as you would expect. I don’t think that their being Jewish (in terms of preferential treatment or anything like that) has anything to do with it. The real problem, though, is that Western civilisation has declined to the extent that there is nothing to act as counter-weight to this. I grew up out of the West (though of British grandparentage) and when I came to Britain, the decay in the people was remarkable to me to witness. They are like leaves in the wind, blown up and down and roundabout, with no direction or national meaning. They have discarded all of their national narratives, and only care to be “cool”. That is why this land is as it is. If what you say is correct, that a tiny group of immigrants has been allowed to set issues such as identity, belief, etc., then surely there wasn’t really anything anyway, or at least, nothing worth preserving. I don’t see that that is what has happened, though, apart from perhaps notionally.

    • Cheradenine

      I doubt it. He’s on their payroll.

    • Guest

      no.
      jews have done nothing but contribute to humanity

      muslims have contributed only wars and bloodshed on humanity

      comparing jews to muslims, is like comparing a crystal vase to the trainspotting toilet.

  • Mrs Josephine Hyde-Hartley

    I don’t really think peace can be exported. It’s either with us or it isn’t.

    But these two man-made organisations ie the MCB and the BoD have obviously got together with the best intentions.. so this article really does seem to be whipping up a load of yah-boo hysteria.

    Perhaps it would have been better if the BoD and MCB had got together under the auspices of a wonderful quaker silence ie enough said..

  • TimboX

    Brilliant article. Very thought provoking. Of course everyone knows that the vast, vast majority of muslims are inherently anti-Semitic. It’s a generational issue that stems from the koran. I’ve never met one yet that didn’t throw out the odd anti-Jewish slur at the most unexpected of moments.

    It’s true what they say, you can either have equality or diversity, but not both.

  • MikeF

    There is one way only of avoiding the danger of ‘Islamophobia’. Recognise that no such thing exists and that the term is mock-analytical gibberish. Go on try it – There is no Islamophobia. Once you have said it out loud it is really quite easy to live with the idea.

  • AJH1968

    If the fascists of the 1930’s committed a fraction of the outrages that the so called minority of muslims have committed would the elite be falling over themselves to placate the majority. Given the size and scale of the Rotherham atrocity how can it be reasonably claimed that vast majority of muslims condemn the actions of the minority (remember 1400 victims, God knows how many rapists). The reaction of the so called majority have lacked any significant level of introspection or remorse and nauseatingly it has done little to curb the cringeworthy adulation and apologies of a cavalcade of leftwing toadies and lickspittles.

    • pedestrianblogger

      For every rapist, there must have been a dozen who knew what was going on and kept silent. And every one of them a “moderate Muslim”.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Whole families knew.

        • Maverick Muezzin

          In fairness we don’t know how many Muslims knew, (although really the issue is the Pakistani community). I still know a lot of Muslims who are in denial about the 7/7 bombings and believe it was a government conspiracy. It’s easy to be in denial when faced with the prospect of such horror.

          But what is clear is that were plenty of non-Muslims, at the council, in the police force, and in Parliament, who did whatever they could to keep this hushed up for so long. The whole rotten edifice of Left-wing identity politics provided a shield and encouragement for those sicko rapists.

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      when you do the math (sorry!) it is even more appalling: Rotherham is an area of 250,000: we can surmise that 50% are female, we can further surmise that about 20% of the females are 10 to 20 years old (as an absolute maximum, probably less). Of those 25000 how many in care/council/social worker target? Say 10%…2500. Of which 1400 were victims? We are talking 50% plus of the total in council care. WTF?!!! Is my maths way off? If not then this is even worse than the effing terrible it already is.

      • Damaris Tighe

        You’ve then got to add on the towns with much larger muslim populations where we know some gangs have been operating. The total figure in the UK is mind-boggling.

        • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

          Indeed 🙁

      • Cheradenine

        Plus there were only 8000 Muslims in the town. How many families was that? Considering the size of Muslim families, and their levels of interrelatedness, that’s probably only 300-400 families. 400 families, 1400 victims minimum. How many Pakistani families did not have someone involved in this?

      • AJH1968

        What would the reaction be in another country to such an atrocity. Lets stick to rational countrys, we all know what would happen in Pakistan and the Middle East.

  • global city

    Most Muslims (even ‘bad’ ones) are Jewphobic. Can we please get this placed into the MSM?

  • eddie333

    At least 80% of the Anti Israel (anti-jewish) protesters at the recent marches for Gaza have been British muslim. Without muslim attendance these rallies would have been very sparsely attended.

    To me that says it all….

    Shouldn’t these people really get their own houses in order before they start claiming the moral high ground?

    Or maybe they think that if they make enough noise about Israel then people will forget about (or at least be temporarily distracted from) the multiple genocides that continue to occur in the name of Islam?

    (Yet another western journalist murdered today….)

    Sorry guys but that old magicians trick wont work anymore – not now we have a lasting ceasefire between Hamas and Israel.

    Without the Gaza conflict to distract us – everyone can now see who the bad guys really are.

    That Britain’s moderate muslims are choosing to NOT take to the streets to protest the actions of their radical cousins in Iraq speaks volumes.

    • Damaris Tighe

      To take to the streets requires organisation & representation. If the only muslim activist organisations are militant in their sympathies, there is no-one to lead the moderates – assuming they exist.

      Edit: mind you, the Quilliam Foundation is supposed to be moderate & I don’t see them organising rallies.

      • Suzy61

        According to the MSM they exist in their millions….wtf are they? Conspicious by their absence.

        • pedestrianblogger

          According to Livia (below), they are too busy walking their dogs, cheering on their local soccer teams, baking Eccles cakes, chuckling over Dad’s Army boxed sets, volunteering for charitable work and doing other similarly typically British things to find the time to express their condemnation of their rather less “moderate” co-religionists. It’s rather odd. Everyone else seems to manage to make themselves and their opinions heard.

          • Suzy61

            ha ha..yes…so difficult to find the time..they have so much to do..signing on, going to to the post office, sending money home etc…

          • Maverick Muezzin

            Well I do walk the border collie, bake lemon meringue pie, and prefer my One Foot in the Grave box set. As a volunteer for Age Concern I used to visit a sweet, if a bit racist, old lady called Lucy. (Although my main voluntary work has been to do with human rights and international development.) When I see anti-semitic statements I challenge them, and by and large receive abuse from my fellow Muslims for doing so, but still I try. I don’t enjoy confrontation, but I look around and see no one else challenging it most of the time, so I feel obliged. People tell me privately they agree with me, but they don’t want to get involved and face the same kind of abuse.

            Sadly, as is so often the case, the people who shout loudest and with the most vitriol intimidate others from even speaking. (Worryingly this seems to be a tactic by the Scottish Nats too.) Muslim ‘moderates’ like myself don’t feel safe speaking out, so opt for the ostrich tactic of ignoring the issue. And ‘moderate’ personalities and groups are thoroughly character-assassinated, and thus have no legitimacy within the community at large.

            • pedestrianblogger

              I wish you all the best and hope you live long and happily. Likewise, your Collie (although I can’t find it within myself to share your liking for One Foot In The Grave).

            • Conway

              Isn’t the border collie, like all dogs, haram?

              • Maverick Muezzin

                Eating dogs is certainly haraam (like pork). Owning them isn’t.

                In fact Sunnni Islam teaches us that on the Day of Judgement someone will get into Heaven for the merciful act of giving water to a thirsty dog in the desert.

                Similarly we can eat shot game birds that have been fetched by our dogs, unless the dog has tried to eat it, in which case the hungry dog should have it. Mum just gets halal chicken from Tesco though. Much easier.

                • Mike

                  maybe you should try the kosher counter but I bet its more expensive!!

    • The_Missing_Think

      Israel only issues passports to Europeans that are Jewish.

      Talking about ‘bad’ guys and liars…

      Is Israel an enhno-nationalist state, yes or no?

      • eddie333

        Because refusing a non jewish European a passport is much much worse than slicing off their head and putting it on youtube?
        Right mate?

        • The_Missing_Think

          Yawn… yet more strawman rubbish I never said.

          Listen up liar, there’s a third option… an Enoch Powell English England… with no constant tedious sand cult dispute, where there should be a strong healthy English culture… in England.

          That requires a good slice of pro-white ethno-nationalism, something all Zionist racial hypocrites like you vehmently oppose.

          That’s why you can’t state’yes’, becuse you’re a lousy racial hypocrite. (‘racist’).

          Is Israel an enthno-nationalist state, yes or no? (for the twentith time LIAR).

          • eddie333

            Well if that’s what you want I suggest you go and vote for it.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Of course Israel is a nation state – as Britain should be. But not an ethno-nationalist state as it issues passports to Jewish Ethiopians as well as Jewish Europeans – contrary to what you say in an earlier post. In fact Israel went out of its way to fly the black Jews in.

            Israel also accepted tens of thousands of muslim black african
            asylum seekers.

            • The_Missing_Think

              Stop being evasive. Use the word ‘no’, if you think it.

              Is Israel an enthno-nationalist state, yes or no?

              (note, the question isn’t is Israel a nation state?).

        • The_Missing_Think

          Aaaah… is the ‘Speccie Zionist’ cheating to protect their fellow Jewish chummy in Israeli land grabbed provence No.3?

          Proof that you are anti-white race abusers.

          Rotherham all over again is it?

        • The_Missing_Think

          It is illegal to delete this comment, don’t push me.

          Yawn… yet more strawman rubbish I never said.

          Listen up liar, there’s a third option… an Enoch Powell English England… with no constant tedious sand cult dispute, where there should be a strong healthy English culture… in England.

          That requires a good slice of pro-white ethno-nationalism, something all Zionist racial hypocrites like you vehmently oppose.

          That’s why you can’t state’yes’, becuse you’re a lousy racial hypocrite. (‘racist’).

          Is Israel an enthno-nationalist state, yes or no? (for the wentith time LIAR).

        • Damaris Tighe

          But non-Jewish Europeans can get citizenship rights eddie, after a certain time in residence. The rules are much the same as the UK if you’re not Jewish I believe. It’s just that with Jews the right to citizenship is automatic.

        • The_Missing_Think

          Aaaah… love Eddie do we?

          Because he’s one of ours… NOT in Israel, but so what?

          Filming your criminl acts of Rotherham style cover up.

          Yawn… yet more strawman rubbish I never said.

          Listen up liar, there’s a third option… an Enoch Powell English England… with no constant tedious sand cult dispute, where there should be a strong healthy English culture… in England.

          That requires a good slice of pro-white ethno-nationalism, something all Zionist racial hypocrites like you vehmently oppose.

          That’s why you can’t state’yes’, becuse you’re a lousy racial hypocrite. (‘racist’).

          Is Israel an enthno-nationalist state, yes or no? (for the wentith time LIAR).

      • Richard

        But this is untrue. There are Somali Jews, Yemenite Jews, all sorts of non-European Jews. You need to go to Israel or at least read up more about it before making such comments.

        • The_Missing_Think

          Oh… my freedom of speech has returned, just as well I filmed it all.

          Still filming.

          Richard,

          Blah blah blah… straight yes or no if you can?

          Is Israel an enthno-nationalist state, yes or no?

          • eddie333

            You’re not very bright are you mate?

            • The_Missing_Think

              Brighter than you are honest.

              Is Israel an enthno-nationalist state, yes or no?

              • Damaris Tighe

                No

                • The_Missing_Think

                  Care to explain why the Israeli Govt is doing ‘racially profiled’ forced expulsions then?

                  You know, racially profiled, as in, racially profiled. As in normaly illegal in Western democracies… but hey… so what?… that’s different because they’re white… yeah?

                  Not your wannabe emotional aspirations and waffle, but the real world. ↓↓↓

                  So that makes your ‘No’ delusional.
                  _____

                  “ISRAEL will expel 400 native-born children of non-Jewish foreign workers to help safeguard the country’s Jewish identity”.

                  http://www.theage.com.au/world/israel-to-expel-400-children-20100802-1139p.html#ixzz3ASq3rv4D

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Philippinos = foreign non-citizen workers.

                • The_Missing_Think

                  Nope, ‘Israeli’, or you’re not ‘British’.

                  “ISRAEL will expel 400 native-born children of non-Jewish foreign workers to help safeguard the country’s Jewish identity”.
                  _____

                  Born in Britain = Fully legally British. Even Jhadiis.

                  Born in Israel = Israeli Kicked out.

                  Try again.

      • Guest

        oh how dare evil Israel open its’ borders to all world jewry??

        they should behead and slaughter each other like muslims do, or ignore the ethnic cleansing of christians (by muslims), like christians…

        • MissDemeanor

          jews looking out for jews has made jew-haters foam at their mouths since the beginning of time

          instead of worrying about jews helping jews, maybe this troglodyte should worry about his fellow christians/muslims
          but that would take a minimum amount of self-criticism, insight and responsibility

      • Pelo Nord

        Why do you care?

  • Patriccia Shaw

    “Who shall not pass today? Surely we need to know before blocking the streets against such a foe?”
    *
    Well Douglas Murray for one.
    Fomenting hatred against MCB who are trying desperately to bring communities together.

    • Suzy61

      You idiot.

      • Patriccia Shaw

        If it is idiotic to decry fomentation of racial tensions, I plead guilty.

        • pedestrianblogger

          Oh right. Islam is a “race”, all of a sudden. Well I never.

          • Chris Morriss

            Well, the Jews claim often enough that they are a ‘race’, so it’s only to be expected.

            • Damaris Tighe

              No, Jews don’t claim to be a ‘race’, they claim to be a ‘people’ which is something quite different. ‘People’ is more like a tribe which is open to members of any race if they want to throw in their lot with the Jewish people.

              • Patriccia Shaw

                In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race

                • Damaris Tighe

                  I don’t give a stuff – that’s not how Jews see themselves. I can only assume that the SC declared them a race for race legislation purposes.

                • Cheradenine

                  Jews see themselves as being genetically distinct and are intent on preserving their genetic distinctness as we saw from the recent hysteria in Israel when Netanyahu’s son was alleged to be dating a Norwegian girl.

          • Patriccia Shaw

            But foment it he does

            • Suzy61

              If you don’t know the meaning of the word…stop ‘effing using it!

              • Patriccia Shaw

                The main consequence of the intemperate Murray posts is to stoke tensions between the Arab race and the Chosen People who also, I understand regard themselves as a race.
                I could of course be wrong.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  You are wrong. See my post on this thread.

        • Suzy61

          Islam is a religion

        • Suzy61

          Look up the word ‘racial’ in the OED.

    • The Masked Marvel

      Yes, burning poppies and abusing your daughters is the best kind of social cohesion, isn’t it?

      • Patriccia Shaw

        Criminals
        Not the religion

        • The Masked Marvel

          Criminals, yes. But there is a particular version of the religion which is problematic and is more widespread than you like to admit. See this BBC journalist’s explanation, for example:

          http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28967146

          Of course, the police and council mandarins who allowed this to continue and suppressed objections have their own criminal ideology to answer for as well. But that’s a different discussion.

    • Maverick Muezzin

      Patricia, I genuinely appreciate your sentiment. But if there’s one thing we should all have learned recently, it’s that making certain issues taboo – because they’re potentially divisive – is not the solution. To have any meaningful dialogue between communities, and any real chance of change, then uncomfortable issues have to be addressed.

      Having said that, then if people like Douglas Murray do want change, then they also can’t cling to the past. Undoubtedly the people running MCB have done some knobbish things in the past. But the very fact they’ve jointly signed something with BoD suggests the potential for rehabilitation. Humans are so tribal it’s always easy to be divisive towards others (even in paltry matters like football). Attempts at cohesion should be encouraged and nurtured, albeit in a mature way that doesn’t seek blindly to ignore real issues.

      • Mike

        I agree with what you say MM except for 1 point – football is not a paltry matter – as you know some teams’ supporters are divided on religious affiliations – mainly in Scotland I believe

        • thomasaikenhead

          Mike,

          Yes indeed, as the reactions of fans of Beitar Jerusalem in ‘La Familia’ showed when the club signed two Muslim Chechen players?

          Now a situation has developed in Manchester where the Jewish Glazer family own Manchester United while their rivals, Manchester City, are owned by Muslims from the Middle East.

      • Colonel Mustard

        You should know that “Patriccia Shaw” is an identity used by telemachus when posting about Palestinian issues. He is an “agent of influence” for the Labour party but like many of them his politics belong in the SWP and he is an admirer of Stalin, the Gulag and “proscribing” those whose political views dissent from his.

        Other identities he uses here are .telemachus, telemachus associates and Common Purpose. God knows why because his prose is instantly identifiable.

  • Alexsandr

    douglas
    you say:- ‘Because the claim made by most Jewish and non-Jewish mainstream voices
    is that the Muslim extremists constitute a tiny proportion of the Muslim
    population in Britain and other Western countries’

    where is the evidence for these ‘moderates’ Where were the moderates demonstrating after Lee Rigby’s slaughter saying ‘not in our name’
    time and time again we have problems caused by so called extremists. but we never see the moderates.
    Muslims must be prepared to stand up and shout very loud and clear condemning atrocities supposed to be in the name of their religion, or we must assume they give tacit acceptance.

    • Patriccia Shaw

      That is what MCB were doing before Murray and acolytes decided to lambast them

    • Suzy61

      Alexsandr….I say the exact same thing on another subject here, to the Muslims silence is indeed golden but gives the remainder of us grave doubts.

    • Livia

      You don’t see the moderates generally in life, because they’re at work, or at home worrying about their mortgages, or redecorating, or filing for bankruptcy, or watching X Factor. If there were millions of extremists in the country, as you seem to imagine there to be, then we’d have a lot more terrorism than we do, a lot, lot, lot more. We don’t, because most people are moderate. The murder of Lee Rigby was frightening and disgusting on every level, but there haven’t been any other acts of terrorism in Britain since then, and it’s been quite awhile. More people choke to death on their own food than die of terrorism in this country. More people are killed by their boyfriends or husbands than at the hands of people who kill in the name of an invisible space wizard. Stop being so paranoid.

      • will91

        It’s only due to luck/the expertise of our security services/the ineptness of many of these wannabe jihadists that thousands more people haven’t been killed in this country. It’s not for want of trying. The attempt to bomb the Ministry of Sound nightclub in London, the attempt to bomb the London stock exchange, the 2006 attempt to destroy 10 airliners flying from England to the United States. There you go! 3 foiled plots off the top of my head. Stop being so bloody naive!!

        • thomasaikenhead

          will91,

          The negligence and incompetence of the British security services is now legendary, or are you unaware of the ‘dodgy dossier’ that led to the UK getting involved in the invasion of Iraq?

          Are you totally ignorant of the industrial scale child abuse of white, English, Christian school girls by gangs of Muslim men of Pakistani origin that has been going on in England for DECADES?

          This is a genuine and very real threat to England but the security services have taken no action whatsoever.

          Clearly the concept of ‘clear and present danger’ is alien to them.

      • Suzy61

        Grow up Livia

      • Ridcully

        “More women are killed by their husbands and boyfriends..”
        You mean as a matter of “honour?” Kind of undermined your own argument there.

      • JohnIIISobieski

        Let´s assume child rape and torture did not only happen in Rotherham but (more likely) all over the country, in hundreds of cities all across Britain. In that case British Muslims might have managed to rape and torture more girls than ISIS did in Iraq. Would you consider that to be a war crime, a crime against humanity or just, as you put it so nonchalantly, a one off of people who worship an invisible space wizard?

        • thomasaikenhead

          John,

          You have to ask yourself why David Cameron, Gordon Brown and Tony Blair took no action to protect these abused children?

          As Alexis Jay made clear, the evidence was there for all to see and the law is very clear, but no action was taken.

          The only conclusion id that ‘the political class’ simply did not care!

          • wudyermucuss

            Community cohesion trumps mass rape.

            • thomasaikenhead

              Yes, but it certaiony does not exempt the police, social workers, councillors, teachers and medical staff from their ‘duty of care’ to the children that they were charged with protecting.

              The prosecutions that the victims are starting to bring are bound to force yet more disclosure about precisely who was involved and who new what and when.

              The other factor is that Rotherham was certainly not an isolated incident but part of a pattern of abuse in many cities and towns and there is much, much more about these other places still to be revealed!

      • Penny

        Terrorism isn’t a numbers game, Livia. It took 19 people to kill some 3,000-odd on 9/11. Similarly, London, Bali, Madrid and most other attacks have involved very few actual attackers.

        Terrorism works by creating anxiety and restrictions. Currently, and despite what appears to be very few British deaths through terrorism, we still have pretty stringent airport security procedures. Millions of people accept them (and want them) because anxiety would set in if we’d no way of checking that our trip to Malaga wasn’t going to end in disaster thanks to someone with explosives in his underwear or shoes and a determination to move the passengers closer to Paradise. And I’m sure you can see that, if we had no airport security procedures, there would be effects other than passenger anxiety.

        Let’s say – for the sake of argument – that in 2015 there will be 12 deaths per month in the UK due to road accidents. That’s 144 deaths per year that aren’t going to have much of an impact on the public in general. But supposing every month we saw a single Lee Rigby-type incident occurring in random parts of the UK and among ordinary people (as opposed to soldiers)? That’s just 12 per year – but the impact would be huge. It isn’t the numbers that would matter, it would be the “not knowing” element of whether the strike would be in your area and affect either you or someone you know.

        • thomasaikenhead

          Penny,

          Terrorism IS a numbers game.

          It is all about likelihoods and probabilities, hence the value of risk/reward analysis.

          As it happens, returning jihadis have not committed any crimes in the UK, yet thousands of of white, Christian, English school girls have been groomed, raped, beaten and prostituted by gangs of Muslim men of Pakistani origin.

          The numbers make clear that the real threat is domestic, yet the police, politicians, social workers, teachers and medical professionals ignored the overwhelming evidence and failed to protect these vulnerable children?

          The very real terror experienced by these children is quite different from the abstract threat of returning jihadis.

          Evil happens when good men do nothing!

      • MissDemeanor

        and yet there were HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Muslims on European squares when a guy drew a bleedin’ CARTOON!!

        thy weren’t too ‘moderate’ or busy for that..

      • James Lovelace

        “If there were millions of extremists in the country, as you seem to imagine there to be, then we’d have a lot more terrorism than we do, a lot, lot, lot more. ”

        Muslims are 1/20th of the UK population. Yet they have carried out the worst terrorist atrocities in Britain, and at least 332 of them have been convicted of terrorism (MI5 can’t even be bothered to update the stats since June 2013).

        I’m sure if 332 non-muslims were convicted for plotting terrorist attacks on muslims in the UK, you’d be screaming with outrage. Yet we non-muslims are 19/20ths of the population. So, just to equal the amount of muslim terrorism, there would need to be 19 x 332 non-muslim terrorists.

      • uberwest

        That’s only because the numbers are relatively small, and for the reason will91 points out. Wait until the numbers are greater. Then the bombs will be more likely to succeed because the muslims involved in counter-terrorism will be more inclined to let them succeed.

      • uberwest

        A disproportionate number of female murder victims are muslim women killed by their muslim fathers or husbands or brothers in so called ‘honour’ killings.

    • Terry Field

      It seems to be simply sane and rational to be Islamiphobic

      • Damaris Tighe

        I am islamophobic because I dislike (to put it mildly) the religion. I reserve judgment on individuals – they may be nominal muslims for all I know, like ‘christians’ who go to church for weddings & funerals.

        • pedestrianblogger

          I have had Muslim friends who were, genuinely, moderate and who wore their religion very lightly indeed. But, I am sure there were Nazis who were delightful company and who sneered at old Grofaz but Nazism itself was no less despicable for their attitude.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Exactly, whatever the masses feel they’re irrelevant. Small highly motivated groups win.

          • Maria

            Yes, true. But what helps evil proliferate is that those who even hold things lightly say nothing.
            Albert Speer was one such person. Of himself one can emphathise but participation is borne from silence.

        • Rocksy

          There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. Their belief system doesn’t allow for moderate thinking or behaviour. Those who appear so are living by Christian principles as espoused in British culture not Islamic principles.
          As for Christians, there is usually nothing outwardly to distinguish between nominal and devout Christians.

          • GM

            …….apart from the sandals.

          • Maria

            Perhaps moderate should be named for what it is, unfaithful or less fervent. But ‘moderates’ the unfaithful can facilitate by silence.

          • Maria

            Christianity is not about principles. That is the remaining fragments of Christianity. Christianity is about conversion to Christ, union with Christ through the action of the Holy Spirit who’s mission is actually ‘to convince the world about sin’. Blasphemy is a rejection of the redemptive work of Christ.
            True conversion to Christ does indeed manifest in works, manner of living, understanding, worship and belief because infused charity is changing their hearts. Hence they are more loving spouses, mothers, fathers, and have mercy by action. Full conversion has a face of Christ in charity in two ways for God through spiritual sacrifices and to our neighbour as being amongst them as one of them. So fervent Christianity has a face like Mother Teresa, Francis of Assisi, St John Paul the Great, St Thomas Aquinas and St Terese of Lisieux, and St Louis of France.
            Love is mercy in action in truth.
            Not a sentimental feeling at all.
            I might add that Christians stopped Islam for the sake of our freedom in Christ.

            • Rocksy

              What a crock.

            • Sage Ham

              Thank you. Its incredible how the whinny pot brigade now batting for any other religion than Christianity, demonstrate such selective amnesia!

        • Colonel Mustard

          The other day when telemachus returned (unfortunately) from taking instruction from the KGB he asserted that you were one of his “associates”.

          Is that true? Your comments seem diametrically opposite to his but maybe there is a mind game involved. And today you and he both turn up here together!

          • Damaris Tighe

            What? Of course not Colonel. I’ve been off line for a few days as computer down. Can you refer me to the relevant post?

            • Colonel Mustard

              He wrote:-

              “I welcome the flame being kept alive by by very good friends Dalai, Mynydd, Telemachus associates, Daidragon, Damaris and Patriccia

              The battle is now joined with energy”

              It was in this thread:-

              http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/08/carswells-deflection-inflicts-damage-on-the-party-to-which-he-owes-his-career/#comment-1564456602

              • Damaris Tighe

                There is certainly a game being played but it’s not mine. I note my name has rather cleverly been thrown in the middle of a list of known trolls. But can’t think why he’s picked on me – unless it’s because I post a lot.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  telemachus, .telemachus, telemachus associates, Patriccia Shaw and Common Purpose are one and the same person/cell. There is much of Walter Mitty in the name dropping but most is contrived to provoke, sometimes as with ISIS backfiring.

                  Mynydd and Daidragon are Welsh Labour and could be the same person or operating from the same cell. You would think given the dire state of affairs in Wales under Labour’s yoke they would have more important things to do.

                  Dalai guevara, Dado_trunking and You_kid post very similar comments and appear to be associated, not Englishmen, and often constructing comments as though English is a second language. Pro-Eco, pro-EU, socialist leaning and virulently Anglophobe. Dado poses as a Scots Nat but the loyalty is ambiguous – it is often difficult to unravel their arcane and sneering prose.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  I think I may have been singled out for misinformation because I rattled dado_trunking by altering his name slightly into something rude. First time I’ve seen him or associates angry.

                  I know it’s been said before, but the best way to deal with these trolls is not to feed them. Difficult I know when your blood is up.

        • Colonel Mustard

          The right to dislike is rapidly becoming demonised if not criminalised. It is conflated with discrimination to outlaw it and weasel words like ’embrace’ and ‘celebrate’ are deployed to polarise debate. You must embrace and celebrate their favoured identity groups.

          Meanwhile the left are permitted to hate and demonise their own targets. There is a complementary tactic which is coercion to condemn. Thus if you do not condemn Israel you are tantamount to being a war criminal. If you offend the objects of their shibboleths you must be publicly shamed and forced to apologise. This does not apply to their own apparatchiks of course.

          Really the same imperative that had Red Guard mobs chanting invective and the misery of polarised good vs bad scenarios peddled during Mao’s Cultural Revolution.

        • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

          I also dislike Islam and recognise the danger it poses to Europe.
          but
          A lot, though I know not all ,of the Islamic anti semitism stems from the way Muslims are being slaughtered by Jews and how Muslims were dispossessed by force in 1948.

          if anyone tells me that Muslims are slaughtering one another, I know that too.
          Each side is version Islamophobic
          This means we we reserve the right to kill you if you do not subscribe to our sect.

          • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

            Events of WW2 need not have been a great deal different for Germans to have over run the UK

            After occupation would those activists who attempted to use force to change the situation be considered Germanophobes or freedom fighters ?
            Would there have been wide scale anti Germanophobia ?

            • global city

              We are hidebound by many commitments made in those times, for different problems with different intentions.

          • Richard

            Muslims are not only slaughtering other Muslims, though. If they were, it wouldn’t bother most people, since they must do whatever they wish. But when they start slaughtering others as a terror-tactic, well, that’s not cricket.

          • alexa44

            A lot, though I know not all ,of the Islamic anti semitism stems from the way Muslims are being slaughtered by Jews ?

            Yet Islamic antisemtism existed centuries before the creation of the state of Israel.

            • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

              As Islam grew in scope and influence the antagonism present in it’s teaching was not specifically directed towards Jews tho’ Jews were targeted,

              The danger represented by Islam is that it is hostile to ALL who will not submit to it’s teaching.

              ALL outside Islam are dhimmis who have no right to oppose the teachings and are required to pay tithes as a tribute to protection offered by Islam to non muslims.

              You will find that in SOME areas of the Ottoman Empire Jews attained positions of wealth and privilege. which disproves the common belief that Muslims have always and everywhere persecuted Jews.
              Such a claim is I’m afraid propaganda…

              Ignoring the dispossession that occurred in 1948 while only referring to the last rocket fired into Israel will not provide a step forward to a solution of the ME crisis.
              A peaceable solution is by now almost impossible to attain IMO anyway.

              • alexa44

                In some areas and in different time yes jews attained position of wealth and privialge. But in other areas and in many more times Jews were persecuted for being Jewish. they suffered massacars and force conversion for centuries all over the muslim world.

                Saying that it is propoganda is ignoring history.

      • pedestrianblogger

        A phobia is an irrational fear. The word “Islamophobia” seems to be the ultimate in oxymorons.

        • telemachus

          The word is not ideal, but is recognisably similar to ‘xenophobia’ and ‘europhobia, and is a useful shorthand way of referring to dread or hatred of Islam – and, therefore, to fear or dislike of all or most Muslims
          *

          The term Islamophobia refers to unfounded hostility towards Islam. It refers also to the practical consequences of such hostility in unfair discrimination against Muslim individuals and communities, and to the exclusion of Muslims from mainstream political and social affairs
          *
          Only Islamophobes like yourself question the word

          • Colonel Mustard

            Tripe. A phobia is irrational fear not hostility and it is not what you contrive it to be to suit your political ends.

            Your party invented these pejoratives to smear your political enemies because you cannot combat them with objective argument.

            You demonstrate the technique every time you post your tripe here.

            Leave the English language alone. You have politicised enough in your drive to create 1984.

            • The Laughing Cavalier

              My fear of the beggars is perfectly rational.

          • LordJustin

            When most people speak of Islamophobia, they are referring to Islamists, not Muslims, in the same way as intelligent people separate debate on immigration policy from racism. Only the left attempt to conflate such terms to silence dissent.

            • Russell Quinn

              You put that very nicely.Bravo 🙂

          • gerontius

            !

          • gerontius

            “The term Islamophobia refers to unfounded hostility towards Islam.”

            But hostility to Islam from civilised people is not unfounded is it telemachus? – it is exceedingly well-founded.

          • global city

            What a silly definition!

          • global city

            how is the long standing ‘unfounded’ hostility of the Left to Christianity defined in your lalaworld?

          • richardolsen

            I’d say that Islamic extremism has proven that any phobia against Islam (which by the way is fear only, not hatred) is justified. Gay men in particular, who would be put to the death penalty under Islamic law, have much to fear Islam for. When you have HAMAS whose sole aim is to not just kill every Jew in Israel, but all the Jews of the world, then a phobia of Islam is completely justified by Jews. Islam does itself a great injustice by refusing to actively speak out against and even suppress these violent and hateful actions and speeches. Until such time that the so called “moderate” muslims start to speak up loudly, then I for one will continue to fear what Islam could achieve.

          • Physiocrat

            There two separate issues here. The first is what should one’s attitude to Muslims be? The second is what should one’s attitude be to the body of doctrine that Muslims follow?

          • Russell Quinn

            What’s the word for people that are fearful of Muslims committing more atrocities and think that there is a problem with the rate at which Islam is producing people that are happy to go and kill other people in the name of Islam?

        • couchtripper

          People like you are irrationally scared of “Islam taking over and forcing you to live under Sharon law”. Either that or you’re just a standard bigot.

          • richardolsen

            It’s Sharia, not Sharon. Those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones with such force.

        • Isahiah62

          ISLAMO-FAUX- BIA
          ISLAMO-phony-ists

      • Kitty MLB

        As others have said there is no such word as Islamophobia..a phobia is an irrational fear..such as
        I living in a very old cottage and being afraid of tiny
        spiders who will not plot to send me to oblivion unlike
        Muslims. Its a word created by the left to make the normal seem irrational and defend the abnormal.

        • telemachus

          But Ladybird ISILphobia would fit your argument but not Islamophobia
          The vast majority of Muslims are peace loving like you and I and would no more behead Americans than would a LibDem

          • Kitty MLB

            Someone said evil will thrive if good men do and
            say nothing. There are many Muslim doctors in this country and other similar well -educated people and yet they say nothing, why is that wasp? I understand it was a Muslim doctor from
            This country who has ‘gone home to help’.
            Why won’t what you call the peace loving Muslims speak up..they might be able to stop
            them…we can’t. And stop being so gullible they’re really not you little chums from the East.

          • Colonel Mustard

            You advocated to give the ISIL leader a fair hearing. What is that called?

          • Terry Field

            It takes a constituency of the bigoted, the deranged, the ‘passive’ believers to support and promote a phalanx of killers.
            An organism has many specialised cells………………..It is dangerous in its entirety.
            Teeth are attached to bone and muscle that is surrounded in fat.

          • gerontius

            Then why are those countries that are dominated by islam such horrible, corrupt and violent places, if the inhabitants are so peace-loving?

          • global city

            why have Lefties been so hostile to Christianity? Now that they all support religion what category does this come under?

            • Helen Kate Greaves

              A lot of us lefties are not religious. Thicko.

              • global city

                it was a rather rhetorical question I was raising… oh superior person!

          • alexa44

            Anjam Choudary:
            “There is no such thing as a radical or moderate form of Islam,” he said. “You know, a woman is either pregnant or not pregnant. If you abide by Islam, and you follow what is in the Koran and the traditions of the prophet — then, quite frankly, you’d never find anything that I say which does not have Islamic basis.”
            “I’ve been propagating Islam, and I’ve met most of the leaders of the Muslim community, so I know what’s out there. If you go to Muslims who are actually practicing Islam…you’ll find that they say the exact same thing as me. Because I’m not calling for leadership for individuals, I’m calling for leadership for Islam.”

            • Ruth Ben-Or

              In his own words. I believe him.

        • Terry Field

          My goodness you are sharper than I am these days. I must try to rid myself of this headcold.

      • Maria

        Yes, totally reasonable…good insight.

    • MathMan

      There is ample evidence that after 9/11 Muslim children were jumping up and down for joy in British classrooms. Where did that come from if they are from ‘moderate’ homes?

    • Last Man Standing

      Choudary insists there is no such thing as moderate or radical Islam, just Islam. Although it has to be said his model for Islam is also violent, brutal and aggressive.

    • JEK68

      You know he wasn’t claiming that the statement is true?
      He was pointing out that people make that claim even when some Muslims point out that there is an underlying anti-semitism among most Muslims.

    • global city

      almost by definition ‘moderates’ do not rise up in foment and protest.

  • Freeworld

    The pr war is without doubt being won by those who believe that the followers of Islam on every occasion are the victims and on every occasion anyone who challenges that must be islamophobic…what a daft understanding there is of this rather sensible word, anyone who knows anything at all about the consequences of Islam would be mad not to be fearful of it.

    • Alexsandr

      not sure the war is being won. I feel the tide has turned in the last months.
      People are now openly criticising Islam in a way they didnt before.

      • Patriccia Shaw

        And why?
        Could it be because folks like Murray are h*ll bent on fomenting hatred against a religion rather than the medieval throwbacks that deserve our opprobrium.

        • Suzy61

          Who are the Medieval throwbacks? Who are speaking against them?

          • Patriccia Shaw

            You know well ISIL
            You also know well the force of the whole civilised world(Including Muslim Egypt) are speaking incessantly against them
            Only Obama is bombing them
            Where is Cameron

            • Suzy61

              The whole world? Where are the moderate Muslims?

              • telemachus

                Egypt for a start
                Turkey for a splendid example

                • Suzy61

                  In the UK? I don’t give a fig about Egypt or Turkey.

                • Patriccia Shaw

                  The majority of Muslims in Birmingham, Leeds, Bradford
                  Need I go on

                • Suzy61

                  Would that be the ‘Moderate Muslims of Birmingham, Leeds, Bradford’ who are organising a protest against IS this weekend in London – bringing the traffic to a standstill?

                • Patriccia Shaw

                  A protest against IS
                  Against IS

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Assuming these moderates exist, they need leadership. Any leader would probably be murdered.

                • Maverick Muezzin

                  Sadly I agree. It’s one reason why no one’s picked up the baton properly yet.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Maverick: it would be very helpful to all of us is if you could write a brief description of your take on the different muslim (religious & nominal) groups in the UK & what you think their political stances are. There’s a temptation to see all muslims as a homogenous lump & of course they’re not, are they?

                • adamber

                  Based on what data?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Could you go on as telemachus. It would be more honest.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Turkey is a disaster. It’s becoming more Islamist by the minute.

                • Patriccia Shaw

                  Turkey is a modern tolerant state with less inter-racial and inter-religious tensions than the UK

                • Damaris Tighe

                  You’re about 5 years out of date.

                • Patriccia Shaw

                  There are political tensions.
                  But that is different.

                • adamber

                  Turkey has more journalists in prison than Iran.
                  You are utterly clueless.

                • gerontius

                  In islamic states religion is politics.

                • Maverick Muezzin

                  A bit more out of date than that. Turkey’s Attaturk-inspired secular nationalism, whilst tourist-friendly, has been horrendously intolerant. Never mind prohibitions such as women with headscarves being banned from university, or men who pray or have beards from being in the army. How about national conscription unless you’re queer? But that all pales next to the ethnic cleansing of thousands upon thousands of Greeks and Kurds. As well as the illegal tragedy of Northern Cyprus that has torn a beautiful country apart.

                • adamber

                  Absolute drivel.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Inter-racial and inter-religious tensions caused by the Labour party.

                • gerontius

                  ???????
                  Talk about blind to reality

                • Guest

                  LMAO

                  Turkey has the highest number of imprisoned journalists in the entire world!

                  do you people do anything else than lie, spread taqiyya and *ank into the hummus in ME restaurants in Britain?

                • MissDemeanor

                  they do that to hummus???
                  are you sure?

                • Damaris Tighe

                  I think I’ll continue to buy my hummus in sealed tubs from M&S & Waitrose.

                • adamber

                  Turkey? Erdogan (and the cronies in Turkish press) has made several blatantly anti-Semitic statements recently.
                  In Egypt, according to a Pew poll, 97% of people hold anti-Semitic views.
                  If that’s moderate, I’d hate to see extremism.

              • Maverick Muezzin

                Where do you expect them to be?

                When the IRA used to murder did you expect all Roman Catholics to take to the streets decrying “Not in our name!” How about the UFF?

                When China violate human rights laws, do you expect every person of Chinese descent you meet to explain to you that they disagree with it? Or every atheist?

                Would you have personally apologised when Britain went to war over the Suez Canal? If you were an American, would you be exclaiming to all and sundry who could hear it that you disagreed with the torture at Abu Ghraib? And if you didn’t, should we all assume that you tacitly approved.

                Do you even know any Muslims? Have you even asked them what they think about things?

                As probably the first Muslim you’ve ever had a conversation with about these matters, let me tell you that I believe that what ISIS is doing is morally repugnant and wrong. When the subject has arisen, I have only ever heard the Muslims I know condemn it, and have never heard anyone defend it.

                • adamber

                  How come they suddenly make an appearance when Israel defends itself against rockets and tunnels from Hamas?
                  They manage to make themselves heard loud and clear every time – when they want to.

                • Maverick Muezzin

                  Well there are a few things going on here.

                  First, people are generally better able to preserve their ego by criticising others rather than themselves. Israel is an easy boogeyman scapegoat for many Muslims and those on the Left. (Just as Muslims are for a fair few people, especially on here.) Not least because Israel has done many immoral and illegal actions. (As have Islamist groups.)

                  Second, the Israel-Palestine conflict is a very emotive subject. People care rabidly about it, perhaps because there is so much symbolism. And it’s easy for people not directly involved to focus on past wrongs and hatred of ‘the other side’, rather than how to constructively build a better future for both sides. Both sides are living in a tragic situation there.

                  Third is the pernicious influence of the Left on Muslims in Britain. The Left, generally, hates Israel. There are very close ties between Muslim communities and the Left in this country. So the Left is happy to facilitate protests and provide anti-Israel propaganda, whilst also shoring up its support in such communities. (And the Islamists can tap into that and feed off it too). I’ve been on a couple of Free Palestine marches in the past (I stopped going because of hate-mongering elements). Who do you think organises the marches and the coaches to get people there? I went down on a coach organised by socialists (that was full with other white people) that I’d heard about through leafleting at a mosque. A lot of Muslims wouldn’t be bothered to go otherwise. And to be honest a lot of students see it as a cheap, fun day trip to London.

                • mightymark

                  Actually there is another example where communal declarations seem to be demanded and that is where the anti Israel mob (and it is often indeed a “mob”) demand of e.g. British Jews a “disloyalty to Israel oath” as the price of avoiding anti semitism, damage to communal buildings etc.

                • Maverick Muezzin

                  Well said. That’s equally wrong and disgusting.

                • Suzy61

                  Let me put it this way…whenever they perceive a so-called ‘wrong’ by non-Muslims (or Kuffar as they like to describe us) they head straight for the streets. They don’t seem to have a problem organising that.

                  They may well disagree with the actions of IS but they will only do so privately because they could never publicly condemn and march against other Muslims. They will not protest against their own and certainly not in front of the Kuffar. They will close ranks to protect the barbaric jihadis, regardless of their evil crimes, simply because they are fellow Muslims.

                  It is not for me to seek the moderates out. The whole point is for them to have the courage to show themselves.

                  And since you ask… I worked with a Muslim gentleman. It was the first day of a new project and our employer had sat us on a bank of four desks. Three ladies and him. On day two he didn’t appear. It seems he complained to management that he couldn’t possibly sit with women of equal rank…so they allowed him to go and sit in a corner and put screens around his desk so he could ‘pretend’ that he had been given his own office. The sniggering got too much for him and he left soon after.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  I was especially interested in your last paragraph Suzy. Was the guy old, young?

                • Suzy61

                  He was in his thirties, immaculately turned-out (suit and tie) and spoke impeccable English. This was a project for the Civil Service – so I assume he was discreetly moved sideways – but no doubt his ‘re-assignment’ would have accommodated his wishes. We were asked not to make a ‘fuss’ about it. You’ve gotta laugh!

                • Damaris Tighe

                  So his misogyny was respected in other words. Can you imagine a white person refusing to work with a black, or a straight person refusing to work with a gay person, being given the time of day?

                  It’s the same mentality that turned a blind eye in Rotherham.

          • Livia

            ISIL. Everyone is speaking against them.

            • Suzy61

              Not the moderate Muslims

        • James Lovelace

          “the medieval throwbacks”

          Would that be the 10,000 who attend Hizb ut Tahrir conferences? Cameron himself said “islamic extremists are Nazis”, and Hizb ut Tahrir have been agitating in the UK for the restoration of the Caliphate for 30 years.

          When did any other political party in the UK get 10,000 people to a conference? The BNP couldn’t get 200 people to a conference, and the BNP can draw on 95% of the population. Hizb ut Tahrir can get those numbers from a mere 5% of the population.

          It is clear: muslims in Britain are drawn to fascism by a factor of 20x that of the real indigenous British people.

      • Freeworld

        I would like to agree but with the torrent of stories about as rod puts it “Muslims behaving badly” where is the response. Yes the Rotherham thing finally and at last has found some respectable media outlet but who is being (rightly) harangued the police, Labour Party and social services, that’s ok but when will there be a robust discussion on the failing and corruptions that reside in the commonplace of the Muslim communities, very big of Hasan to come clean but was it shame or glee he was expressing

  • excel

    Cable Street boosted the popularity of the BUF, just so you know.

    http://www.historytoday.com/daniel-tilles/myth-cable-street

  • Swiss Bob

    So how do Jews oppose Muslim anti-Semitism without being ‘Islamophobic’?

    Mr Murray, not sure they should worry about it because after recent events I’m not sure anyone gives a sh 1t whether any thinks they’re ‘islamophobic’ or not.

    Edit. Apart from ‘anti-semites’

    • telemachus

      I am far from anti-Semite, having many Jewish members of my family by marriage but I know well that this thread is written by the UK’s chief media islamophobe
      I say time and again we must embrace the Muslims in our midst
      They will then enrich and not threaten us

      • The Masked Marvel

        They’re embracing your daughters, anyway. Drummer Rigby and those who perished on 7/7 were enriched as well.

      • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

        The last 40 or more years of embracing them doesn’t seem to have worked. What do you suggest now?

      • Dutchnick

        You may welcome Ebola into your household,I do not. When I see a disease that is injurious to the population of my country I want action to protect all. After two decades living and working all over the Muslim world I see not one redeeming nor enriching feature of this faith. There is one faith, one book of instruction and IS, Hamas, Hezbollah etc are only manifestation of what Muslims actually must believe and that is not by choice. Yours is the view of the sad old left that sucked in Muslim immigrants into their miserable Labour constituencies to garner their votes in return to our welfare payments. Roll on the revolution brothers!

      • Kitty MLB

        So those building an Islamic state here and in the Middle East are doing so in order to play scrabble
        on their prayer mats.Embrace them and they
        can just strangle us..I suppose it saves them the trouble of building bombs to blow us up.

      • gerontius

        1400 in Rotherham.
        What’s the score in your other Rotten Boroughs telemachus?

        Still waiting for an answer, oh working class hero

      • Swiss Bob

        Loon

        • starfish

          A loon with the largest and most diverse diaspora in the World

      • gerontius

        “I say time and again we must embrace the Muslims in our midst”

        Is that what you tell your grandaughters telemachus?
        Look I know you need the islamic vote, I understand that, but you are getting more absurd by the day?

      • MissDemeanor

        do not tell me who I must or mustn’t embrace!
        I will not embrace those who wish to behead me because I’m jewish – that’s why jews are still alive. If it were for your type, we’d have all been long gone by now.

        just because you are happy to bend over and give them your granddaughters and kneel next tot them waving your ar$e in the air, do not have the audacity to tell other they MUST do the same

        it is your ilk that has brought all of this upon us, and you STILL keep at it, instead of crawling back under your traitorous Islamophilic rock.

  • The Masked Marvel

    They don’t, Douglas. As you well know, according to the same people who promote the Tiny Minority narrative, the anti-Jewish sentiment is justified by Israel’s actions. Until that spell is broken, your question is moot.

    By the way, did you notice how many BBC personalities or regular staff were present? Any of the stalwarts who supported Occupy or the various and sundry ‘human rights’ campaigns?

  • sarah_13

    Spot on, keep up the good work. To be fair to the Board of Deputies it’s the problem all religious leaders have though, they can’t really call out other religion’s or their leaders because they are all on such shaky ground. So they tend to cling to each other for support. And Christopher Hitchens eloquently summed up Islamophobia ; “a word created by fascists, and used by cowards to manipulate morons.”

    • Suzy61

      We are poorer for his departing, for sure. His eloquence is sorely missed.

      • Patriccia Shaw

        Andrew Cummins, not Hitchens, wrote that calumny

        • sarah_13

          Apologies, my mistake, I believe you are right. Still a great definition irrespective of the provenance.

    • Cheradenine

      The word ‘Islamophobia’ was coined by the Jew Richard Stone, a prominent “anti-racism” campaigner. Jews have played a vastly disproportionate role in pushing multiculturalism and diversity on an unwilling British and European people, playing the Hitler card against anyone who expressed misgivings. They bear a large measure of responsibility for the catastrophe now engulfing them and, more importantly, us.

      • sarah_13

        Yeah, always the Jews…..there’s a word for what you suffer from….

        • Cheradenine

          Islamophobia? Islamophobia is just a recasting of “antisemitism”, an absurd accusation of wickedness intended to delegitimise criticism. The facts are the facts. It is possible to assess propositions by examining their instrinsic merits, and the factual evidence that supports them. It isn’t necessary to assess propositions by attempting to divine how pure the motivation of the person making them is. That is a distinctly Oriental approach, something the Jews and Muslims share, as they share many things.

          • Maverick Muezzin

            Exactly. Such accusations are often employed just as ad hominem attacks designed to shut down disagreement.

            This not only debases the level of debate, it also devalues the terms for when there are the very real acts of bigotry that do happen.

        • The_Missing_Think

          Yawn…

      • Damaris Tighe

        Of course, intellectuals in general had nothing to do with it …

        • Cheradenine

          The ‘Frankfurt School’ research that produced the “prejudice as pathology” model – which came to dominate western discourse – was done almost entirely by Jewish “social scientists” and their research was paid for by the American Jewish Committee to help combat antisemitism.

          You should accept responsibility for what you have done. But the truth is you are no more capable of doing that than Muslims are, are you? You both react to criticism, no matter how well founded, by lapsing into a paranoid victim mentality and accusing your interlocutor of being possessed by some kind of demonic evil. This primitive Oriental mentality would actually be quaint and funny if it hadn’t had such pernicious consequences for Europe.

      • JohnIIISobieski

        It was the Mullahs in Iran who used it against their own Iranian opposition and some guy called Tariq Modood at the Policy Studies Institute in Britain who popularized the concept.
        Nonetheless, it is true that especially American Jews are mostly liberals (every Tom Wolfe novel has its silly push button liberal Jew) who love multiculturalism.

        But you should make an exception for the Israelis, they are different, they are conservative and definitely on our side.

        • Luke Bandolino

          When one has to run for shelter every day, it tends to bring out the islamophobia.

      • The_Missing_Think

        Cheradenine, you are obviously a ‘far right’ extremist, that’s why decent white Zionist won’t up-tick such a comment, because, as their fellow white minority American Zionist have proven in just seventy years, there’s nothing dangerous about Zionism, it’s the other sand cult that’s the problem.

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