Coffee House

Can the Tory party locate its secret weapon?

4 September 2014

9:32 PM

4 September 2014

9:32 PM

It used to be said that loyalty was the Tory party’s secret weapon. But this supposed strength hasn’t been very apparent in recent years. Indeed, at times, it seems that the Tory party hasn’t quite recovered from the demons unleashed by Margaret Thatcher’s ouster twenty-odd years ago.   Douglas Carswell’s defection means that Westminster, when it is not panicking about the Scottish referendum, is chuntering about whether his move to Ukip is the harbinger of a bigger Tory split to come, one that The Spectator explores this week.

Worryingly for the Tory loyalists, there are people on all sides of the party are preparing for this fight.  As one Tory MP tells me, ‘It has that civil war quality to it: people just want to harm the other side.’’   There is plenty of blame to go round for this situation. David Cameron didn’t cause this split on the right. But he hasn’t helped heal it either. His own party and personnel management has also been lacking. As even one loyalist remarks, Cameron ‘has put himself at risk of ‘suffering death from a thousand slights’. While those on the right who say there is little difference between Cameron and Miliband are being wilfully blind.   But if the Tory party indulges in several months of introspection, it will lose the next election. The electorate does not like divided parties and if the Tories are talking to themselves while Labour are trying to talk to the public, they’ll only be one winner in 2o15.

Subscribe to The Spectator today for a quality of argument not found in any other publication. Get more Spectator for less – just £12 for 12 issues.


Show comments
  • OhJohnnie

    Yeah, people are brain dead because the Daily Telegraph comment facility is no longer .. Punishment at what cost?

  • Andrew Cole

    An article from 2014? On the front page? Have we run out of articles?

  • richard1949

    Can rhe toy Party locate it’s secret weapon, is that the same as findng a woman’s g-spot ?

  • John Carins

    The Tories are doomed. They are a mirror image of Labour but for different reasons. Cameron and his cronies are not conservative and they believe that sovereignty is an “illusion”. How have we ended up with such a weak pathetic government? They continue to manage decline and are not prepared to be brave.

  • thomas_paine2

    L E A V E>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thursday 23rd June : your local polling station : 07:00 a:m<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

  • The Masked Marvel

    One can think of something else the Tory leadership can’t find with both hands….

  • http://paulweston101.blogspot.com Paul Weston

    We have had close to five years of Cameron. If he emerges triumphant next year we will have five more and the Tories will all be very happy.

    But what will five more years mean? Evasion over the EU. The ongoing population replacement of the native British. An ever growing national debt. Crap schools (getting rid of Gove was cretionous), crap universities, the continuation of the ECHR, a leftist police force, CPS and judiciary and leftist control of all our institutions – especially the BBC.

    Here’s an idea for a secret weapon Dave; behave like a Conservative rather than a cowardly left-liberal dupe.

    • dalai guevara

      Our schools are not crap, many of our universities certainly aren’t. Population is not replaced, it is generated, either here or abroad to fill the vacancies that have been created over time.

      Can we build nuclear power stations today? No, we need to import the expertise. Will we wash our own cars? No, we will import the expertise.

      That’s what we are doing. We are importing the skill or the desire to work which cannot be found here. There are massive shortages of skill, make no mistake, I know my stuff. There is a massive desire of others to work for a living. The UK thrives on that business model and it cannot be artificially curtailed. The notion is the free market and a market is only free if the access to that market is free. There is absolutely nothing leftie about that.

      • http://paulweston101.blogspot.com Paul Weston

        There are many areas of Britain where the population has been replaced. White flight is real. Tower Hamlets is just one example, and once that population is replaced you end up with rather unpleasant political representation such as Lutfur Rahman who does not fully believe in democracy. It is not just population replacement, it is cultural replacement as well. Which is not a good thing if you care to look at the behaviour of the cultures who are replacing us.

        Public schools are good, State schools are not. This is why the Doctors, engineers, scientists etc are mainly produced by public schools in Britain, whereas Finland, for example, manages to produce the same level of “elitism” from its rather wonderful state school system.

        This explains why we can no longer design and build our own nuclear power stations and have to rely on better educated foreigners instead, which is an appalling indictment of our educational system I would have thought…..as is the fact we must import other skills shortages.

        A question for you: Do you think the native British have a moral and ethical right to retain their homeland and culture as a majority people in perpetuity?

        And a second question if I may; Are you an admirer of Che Guevara? I only ask because one of his favourite little tricks was to execute young men in front of their mothers, should the mothers be foolish enough to plead for their son’s life.

        • dalai guevara

          I am more than happy to respond to your questions.

          British people have a genuine right to retain their homeland and culture, they retain it by living it and living in it. Why did British culture flee Tower Hamlets? Surely, as an avid proponent of British culture you would campaign for British people to live British culture in Tower Hamets. What are you doing then, moving out? Profound and substantial elements of what we perceive as British culture have been imported over many millennia. This is set to continue and only those new (foreign) elements we agree with as a people will end up defining the nation of the future.

          In response to your second question, my profile name is designed to balance widespread and evident global multiculturalism in tune with the essence of my posts: I can be as calm as a Dalai when debating any topic of my choice, but when confronted with often inferior, diverting and self negating riposts then I reserve my right to have the Guevara come out.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …how’s the goat, lad?

  • global city

    “I pledge to limit our involvement with the EU to issues of trade, from the safety of EFTA. All political associations, commitments and treaties will be null and void from the day we return to No10”

    That would blitz any and all barriers to re-election…. a genuine and not so secret weapon. Is Cameron inclined to take it up? Not on your Nelly!

  • Denis_Cooper

    The Tories are already set to lose the next election; they have been since they failed to win the last one, which itself was the result of their failures during 2009.

    Suppose the Tories had won an overall majority in 2010. The LibDems would not have been part of the government and without their perceived contamination by the association with the Tories they would not have lost two thirds of their support, most of which switched to Labour, worth maybe 7% for Labour versus the Tories; and they would not have been able to block the boundary changes, also worth about 7% for Labour versus the Tories.

    Compared to those two major factors the effect of UKIP is minor; even if it were to completely disappear from the political scene the Tories might get a very slight net benefit versus Labour, perhaps 2% at most.

    • andagain

      They’d still be in with a chance if they were not so determined to destroy themselves. But they are. and have been for at least the last twenty years.

  • kyalami

    The Tories will lose their next election because they have alienated too many of their core supporters, and not just on Europe.

    The National Planning Policy Framework gave free rein to developers to build over the countryside – not exactly the best way to maintain rural support.

    • Fred Smith

      HS2 is another blinder.

    • Conway

      The mood in the rural parishes in my neck of the woods is rebellious. They’ve had enough.

      • kyalami

        It’s the same here. Our MP, a very likeable fellow normally, is clearly prepared to acquiesce in rampant overdevelopment to avoid annoying the government. The seat will likely be non-Tory after the election.

  • starfish

    As another poster said loyalty is a two way street

    Furthermore it is not the party leader’s right to expect it without question. It has to be earned and nurtured.

    Cameron has all the hallmarks of a weak leader. Someone who says one thing and does another; is too keen to accept plaudits and advice from certain cliques while ignoring the big picture

    He sees everything in terms of personal advantage

    He is a flimflam metchant and has been found wanting

    He has now lost a significant portion of his party

    And what is worse is that milliband and clegg are cut from the same cloth

    They have similar reality free backgrounds superficial gloss and think they are intellectuals. Typical bubble dwellers

    And you wonder why UKIP is popular?!

  • Lady Magdalene

    Cameron may not have caused the split on the right (that honour belongs to Heath, Major and the other wets who ousted Mrs Thatcher in order to build the EU).
    But he certainly did his best to exacerbate it by first promising and then reneging on a Referendum on the Lisbon Treachery; by adopting Blair’s policies wholesale; by making it clear that his political beliefs have more in common with Clegg than Carswell and by forcing through gay “marriage” knowing full well that his party were opposed.
    Anyone would forgiven for thinking he WANTED the party to split.

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      I agree but let’s be clear, despite what EVERYONE thinks he didn’t renege or break his ‘cast iron’ guarantee: what he said was very specific and had a big IF attached.

      That said, it is clear he is irrecoverably pro EU, got rid of his best operative (Gove), got rid of a ‘great hope’ (Patterson), is hopelessly ‘wet’, far too liberal and keeps saying Islam is a religion of peace and that all the atrocities have nothing to do with it, that’s enough for me.

      • Fred Smith

        “We will not let matters rest there.”???

        He thought it was clever to allow people to believe things he knew weren’t true because it suited him. He and Hague resisted direct requests to clarify the position of what would happen if the 2nd Irish referendum resulted in a yes vote, as was highly likely, and the reason for this was the coming euro elections. There was no thought as to what would happen if he was called on it, as was likely and they let things trundle along.

        When there was no more wriggle room, they referred to the small print like shysters. Their poll ratings went down after that.

        It was a crass move made for a dubious advantage and they’ve been made to pay the price. Now when he wants faith in something he’s offering for the future, the 2017 referendum, no one trusts him.

        This is Cameron, stupid moves which stand to gain him very little, are very likely to go wrong, and when they do have a huge penalty. He at least has amazingly poor political judgement.

        • Alexsandr

          that sums it up nicely -thanks Fred.

          • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

            agreed

  • Damaris Tighe

    ‘Ousting’ James, we say ‘ousting’ not ‘ouster’ like the yanks.

  • Fred Smith

    Loyalty is a two way street, and those loyal to something which isn’t loyal to them are simply dupes.

  • Chingford Man

    At least when Dave has his Allende Moment, he can reflect that so many people told him what he was doing wrong and what the consequences would be. The bloodbath may not even be delayed too long. I cannot see how Cameron could survive a Scottish Yes vote.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …lucky for him the jocks love socialism.

    • Lady Magdalene

      Being fair, that wouldn’t be his fault. Labour put the warped devolution settlement in place; Labour put the voting system in place in the Scottish Assembly – thinking they had prevented the SNP from ever gaining a majority; Scottish Labour performed so poorly that the Scots voted for the only viable alternative.
      Cameron was picking up the pieces.

      • Chingford Man

        Oh there’s plenty of blame to be shovelled at Labour. But at the same time, here we have a Prime Minister of the United Kingdom who has basically sat on the sidelines and sub-contracted the defence of his polity to someone else. He has allowed Salmond to claim Scotland as his fiefdom and effectively to keep him out. At least Farage has the gumption to hold a pro-union rally with his people from all over the UK, the kind of thing the Tories might once have done.

        If Scotland is lost, it will be the crowning indictment of the political class: that it allowed a chancer – for such he is – like Salmond to obtain a referendum at a time of his choosing and win it.

  • you_kid

    Spectator Poll:
    Should the UK involve itself in a military campaign against Is…rael?

    Never did you run such a poll. You didn’t need to, the streets told you what was going on. Joan Rivers, rest in peace.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …can any other of you socialist nutters translate this nutter’s gibberish?

  • andagain

    It used to be said that loyalty was the Tory party’s secret weapon.

    There is no such thing as a loyal Tory, and hasn’t been for at least the last generation.

    Name one other political party that has prepared for a general election by starting a civil war. The Right just doesn’t want to be in government.

    • ManOfKent

      Name one other political party that would defenestrate the most successful political leader in British electoral history.?

      22nd November 1990 was the day the Tory Party committed suicide. It’s just taking a long time to die……

      • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

        Yes, it has also taken me and many others a long time to realise that; more like sEUicide. Major tried his hardest (and in 1992 got more votes than any other British PM…EVER) but the course was set.

      • andagain

        Is that the excuse? St Margaret of Grantham lost office and so the Tories right wing must destroy any other attempt to form a Conservative government for the rest of time?

  • ManOfKent

    David Cameron didn’t cause this split on the right.

    Perhaps not but he breathed iife into that split when it was largely dormant. Just consider Cameron’s achievements :

    – A joke of an Immigration policy that is now in tatters
    – A misguided modernisation and detoxification project that by achieving the opposite ended in abject failure
    – An absence of focus on Criminal Justice (resulting in the horrendous revelations in Rotherham
    – Abandoning the traditional family
    – An incoherent and contradictory Defence policy (more wars, less troops less, military assets)
    – Abandoning the centre right for the wasteland of the no mans land in the centre of politics
    – Procession of incoherent, inconsistent and implausible positions on the EU
    – An increasingly failed foreign policy
    – Forming a coalition with the Libdems
    – Hero worshipping Tony Blair
    – Obsessing over matters of political crassness.(i.e. the equality agenda)
    – Abusing and insulting anyone who does not share the Cameroons narrow minded Urban liberal elitist world view.

    Never has a Tory leader done so much to wreck his own party and make it incapable of winning a majority.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …and that party is about 1/3 its size when Call Me Dave took the helm. Nothing could better demonstrate this guy’s incompetence.

  • Alexandrovich

    “It used to be said that loyalty was the Tory party’s secret weapon.”
    Loyalty to whom? Certainly not the rank and file conservatives who voted them in.

  • ButcombeMan

    “David Cameron didn’t cause this split on the right”.
    James.
    Do you really believe that if Cameron had dealt robustly and honestly with EU issues (so that,agree with him or not, he could be trusted), with Immigration, with public spending, with foreign adventures and had not so suddenly redefined marriage, that those us who have abandoned support, would actually have done so?

    Are you trying to re-write the last four years already?

    It should be obvious to even the most “bubble” centric scribbler, that Cameron HAS caused the split and almost with every desperate tactic and soundbite e.g “fruitcakes”, he reinforces it..

    People will put up with not agreeing with everything their chosen party does. When they find they agree with almost none of it, it is surely time to go.

    Cameron has abandoned his core vote without winning anything much in return, it was very silly it was politically inept.

    I believe it it is irrecoverable.

    He has been careless with the Tories.

    • YahYah

      Will you set out a shopping list of demands that, if met, will have you all return to the Conservative party?

      • Chingford Man

        No. People like me are gone for good. I’m getting in the popcorn for the civil war.

        • telemachus

          I hate the Tories
          But I hate more those who will not stick by their Party when times get tough
          Most in the case of the Tories are doubly reprehensible having been attracted by the racist creed peddled by Farage

          • Darnell Jackson

            Hate crime

            • telemachus

              Ye I hate crime too
              And I see Miliband best placed to tackle this without risking social alienation

              • gerontius

                “Ye I hate crime too”

                Not when it takes place in Rotherham you don’t.
                Though to be fair to you, you probably catagorise the gang rape of children as “cultural enrichment”.

          • MrsDBliss

            As a Labour supporter you have demonstrated wonderfully the party’s attitude towards the working classes, just as yahyah Tories attitude towards its party members,
            Political parties aren’t football teams; that is the my place in which your self-righteous comment has any moral collateral. Political parties should be about what is best for the country and the people within it. You have it all in reverse.

            • telemachus

              Political parties should be about what is best for the country and the people within it
              Agree
              And care
              *
              Only one choice

              • MrsDBliss

                Yet you’re other post talks about hating people not sticking by their party ‘when times get tough’. It puts political party first and is also deceptive.
                People are leaving the Conservative party not because – like a Manchester United supporter – a winning streak is followed by a losing streak. In fact their leaving means a loss is more likely; their leaving is causing the tough times, it’s not a response to them.
                Their leaving therefore is a direct result of their belief that the conservatives aren’t doing what’s best for their country. So you’re taking cheap shots, or you don’t agree that country comes before party or you’re not very bright as to see what the situation actually is.
                Secondly, what is this ‘one choice’ you’re talking about? You can’t possibly be talking about labour surely?

              • gerontius

                “Only one choice”
                Tell it to the 1400 children in Rotherham telemachus. Tell them you “care”, but not about them.

                • Simon Denis

                  It’s all very well attacking him here; but UKIP will let his people into number 10 by the back door and it’s your duty to oppose this process.

            • Alexandrovich

              “Political parties aren’t football teams.”
              They are if they have YahYah Tory in them!
              (Apologies…)

          • gerontius

            “I hate the Tories”

            Not as much as I hate those who hand over defenceless children to rape gangs.
            That’s you I’m talking about telemachus. You and those like you.

          • Chingford Man

            I don’t care what you say as your opinion has no relevance to me. Away off to Komment Macht Frei.

          • chouenlai

            Yes, we aren’t very hot for you either.

      • ManOfKent

        There’s no point because the Tory brand is irrevocably tainted. The party is virtually persona non gratis in Scotland and across most of urban Britain.It cannot win a majority anymore. It has no core ideology anymore and like the Blairite New Labour is nothing more than a hollowed out shell of a party that stands for nothing other than attaining and retaining power Its a divided and dysfunctional party that has been so for almost a generation.

        It’s broken.

        Why would anyone return to a party that’s broken?

        • YahYah

          Well, it has essentially run the country quite well, and that was the only thing it ever stood for. Thatcherism was a product of that, not something as abstract and meaningless as an “ideology”.

          It’s not a question of people “returning”, it’s about making sure that they are attracting new voters faster than they are losing old voters. It’s about managing voter churn.

          The Conservative brand is not nearly as tainted as the Ukip brand, believe me.

          • ManOfKent

            The Conservative brand is not nearly as toxic as the Ukip brand, believe me.

            Only in your and other Tory delusional fantasies. You really should not believe your own pernicious propaganda………..

            And if you think increasing the national debt faster and by more than any other peacetime British Government whilst throwing money at an obese and dysfunctional public sector is ‘running the country quite well’ then you have a very strange view of economics……..

            PS It’s not a question of people “returning”,

            Then why did you ask?

            it’s about making sure that they are attracting new voters faster than they are losing old voters. It’s about managing political churn.

            But they are not. They are losing!

            • YahYah

              I thought that was obvious — to prove that the “if Cameron hadn’t….if the Tories didn’t….if the Conservatives did this” complaint is a red herring.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                The only thing obvious is that you Camerloons are delusional, lad. Read your above posts through a few times. They’re pure delusion. They are severed from all reality. They have no connection with the real world. This will become obvious to you in 8.0 months, when you’re staring up at Dave’s head mounted on that spike, but better it would become obvious to you today.

                • you_kid

                  Now is the time for our readership to identify, again, the resident islamopalestinian on a photograph published by the well-respected right-wing nutjobs of breitbored.

                  Make no mistake, that is you! It must be, you spout the same tripe.
                  http://www.breitbart.com/mediaserver/BF8F95BDFC7644C89C965D86985FC7D2.jpg?h=867&w=650

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …can any other of you socialist nutters translate this nutter’s gibberish?

            • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

              The debt would have risen no matter what. That is like blaming the sun rising in the East on Cameron.

          • Lady Magdalene

            That’s not what the results of by-elections in Labour areas is demonstrating. UKIP has come second in a series of by-elections for local authorities as well as Westminster.
            Labour-voting people who will never vote Conservative WILL vote for UKIP.

            • YahYah

              You mean that Ukip have come second in a bunch of areas where the Conservatives used to come second? Gosh.

              No, Ukip does not have greater reach than the Conservatives. That’s just what Ukip tell you, to make you think that they, unlike the Conservatives, can sell a “traditional” conservative agenda to the country. They can’t, even if they had one to sell.

              • global city

                Are you that fellow, dim but nice….except for not actually being very nice?

                THINK about what you just wrote.

            • Mynydd

              Why would Labour-voting people vote for an extreme right wing party like UKIP when they didn’t vote for the moderate centre right Conservative party?

              • Earthenware

                “Why would Labour-voting people vote for an extreme right wing party like UKIP…”

                That is the root of why the establishment don’t understand UKIP and have not been able to stem the tide of defections.

                UKIP supporters don’t see the party as right-wing. They see it as patriotic – which they do not consider to be an exclusively right-wing virtue. This is why UKIP attracts Labour voters, they are often as patriotic as Tories but would not touch that party with a bargepole.

                For ex-Tory UKIP voters, the Tories under Cameron are a Europhile party, not patriotic at all. Sadly. the idea of patriotism is now considered to be old fashioned and there is no place for it in the “modernised” Tories.

                • Mynydd

                  You may not like the truth, UKIP is an extreme right wing party, that is why there are Conservative turn coats like Carswell

                • Makroon

                  UKIP is the party of protest and nostalgia.
                  And the Brits whether Labour or Conservative, are the world’s greatest nostalgics.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …yes, you progressives are never much for “nostalgia”. You’re still busily making the “new man” and so forth, eh comrade?

                  Generally, your busy makings involve the camps, as we know historically.

                • ButcombeMan

                  The “extreme right wing” thing, is just a simple smear tactic. No one is listening. Because it is not true.

                  It is a method of opposing those who disagree with you, without making the intellectual effort to deal with their arguments, their hopes and their fears.

                  It is typical leftist tactic.

                  It has been seen through.

                  it does not work any more.

              • Alexsandr

                in the 60’s and 70’s there were many labour MP’s in the northern cities. Donald kaberry and Keith Joseph in Leeds for a start. Many in the north will not vote tory but wil gladly vote for a right of centre party. As said elsewhere on this thread, its the tory brand thats broken

                • Mynydd

                  If so why are there no UKIP MPs and why don’t they control a Council. UKIP have just one solution for all problems, leave the EU

                • Alexsandr

                  look at the history of Labour. How long did it take them to form a government?
                  Labour was created in 1899 and didnt form a majority government till 1945.

                • Simon Denis

                  So that gives you until 2060 to get your UKIP government – by which time most of its supporters will be pushing up daisies and the mass immigration encouraged meanwhile by your immediate preference Labour ascendancy will have made right wing success in any form of political contest an impossibility. I think perhaps if this is conservatism today – stiff necked, delusional and self-destructive – it deserves to fail.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Except, you hypocritical Camerluvvies are also pushing mass immigration, laddie.

                  Not surprising that you want we conservatives to fail, you socialist nutter.

                • ButcombeMan

                  Keith Joseph was a Tory MP in Leeds

          • Makroon

            Quite so !
            And when did the Conservatives turn into a caudillo party ?
            Apart from Mrs T and Churchill (for a brief period), most Conservative leaders have been lacklustre at best. That hasn’t prevented a decent record of managing the country and enabling business.
            Of course, there are those who yearn for a “leader” with lots of easy answers, who they can believe in and idolise.
            That is not the British way, thank God.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              It’s the way for you Camerloons, laddie. You worship that muppet Dave.

          • global city

            Yah, you write like one of those PPE graduates…yah?

            • YahYah

              They must be very clever.

              • global city

                Not really!

                Serious note. Absolute, blind loyalty to a political party, to the extent that you end up defending the indefensible is always a bad choice.

                • YahYah

                  Is that so?

                • global city

                  It is. You can clearly see it in stupid Lefties who defend what ever meme someone at the top of the SWP has decided will help bring down western civilisation. Blindly backing what ever mantra is pumped out by CCHQ may not seem as herd-like to you, as the idiocy we see in our left wing friends, but it is.

                  What would you do if the regime and political direction of the party changed tomorrow?

                • YahYah

                  Is that so?

                • global city

                  Yes. Absolutely. Why are you not aware of this incontestable fact?

        • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

          Gratis? Do you mean they’re giving stuff away? 😉

          persona non grata / personae non gratae

        • chouenlai

          Well you better help to fix it. Because the ONLY alternative is Labour. There will not be a UKIP government. There might be a Tory UKIP merger in government one day.

          • Alexsandr

            or the tories will wither and die or UKIP or some other party yet to be born will be the new right of centre.
            Kippers hate the tories. If they get into bed with the tories the grassroots will revolt.

            • ButcombeMan

              Well I will and have recently supported UKIP, but I do not hate the Tories,

              I recognize that, too often in my lifetime, the Tories have had to pick up the pieces after disastrous Labour Governments..

              I feel sorry for the Tories, Cameron has led them into a wilderness. Their blind loyalty makes the future bleak

              The “heir to Blair”

              How he should be ashamed at that.

              if we get a Labour government next time (which I expect), Cameron will go, There will be a scramble to lead with some non entities like May believing they should lead, yes that stupid woman who gave us “the nasty party”.

              It will be undignified and it will be a long fractious haul back to anything approaching normality with a thought through offering to voters.

              With the Tories broken, who will pick up the pieces after the next Labour failure?

              The future is very bleak indeed.

              • Simon Denis

                A long haul? How long do you think this country has? How long can it afford a Labour government? Don’t forget – three million immigrants in just over ten years. And the pace is rising – look at the shores of the Med – so how many are you willing to risk in the next five years? Oh yes, so the figure is up anyway, but this administration has borne down on the non-EU figures, which is where the mass of really dangerous and burdensome immigration comes from – Islamic, unskilled, philoprogenitive, etcetera. As I say, you are merely in despair and don’t really care about all this; all you want is to make your noise now – your wilfully ignorant, self-righteous noise which sets to one side the genuine, conservative achievements of this government in education, employment and – yes – immigration the better to sound aggrieved and hard done by. You don’t for a moment feel “sorry” for the Tories; you’re glad to hurt us, even if in the process you trash the last remnants of your own sort of England. It’s pitiful and vile and frankly you should grow up.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You Camerloons are welcoming those immigrants, you hypocritical Camerluvvie drone.

                  And stop whining, you vile muppet.

                • Conway

                  The pace [of immigrants] is rising. Yes, but who has been in power for the last four years? Nothing has changed. Where is the bonfire of the quangos? Where is the repeal of all of Labour’s illiberal legislation? What has been done to roll back the power of the EU (opting in to the EAW etc is unbelievable)? Why should anyone who wants small government and independence vote for Dave’s Conservatives? The time has come to vote for what you want and not for something you don’t really want to keep out what you really don’t want.

                • ButcombeMan

                  Britain is over.

                  I shall encourage my grandchildren to emigrate.

                  I cannot understand why Cameron has done what he has done, or not done, that which he promised..

                  There is no real political party that represents the interests of our people.

                  UKIP makes an effort but is utterly amateur in sorting out proper policies on many things.

            • Simon Denis

              That’s all the kippers can do – hate.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …and you Camerluvvies are desperate for them to vote for you.

                How pitiful you are, lad.

      • ButcombeMan

        I do not think that the party, under Cameron as Leader, can be reclaimed.

        He broke it, pointlessly.

        He personally has never been able to touch the swathes of ordinary folk, across the UK and outside the London bubble, that are essential to overall success, He never could have done that. That is why he was wrong from the beginning.

        Worse, I do not see any obvious replacement who might have success now. DD shot himself in both feet.

        Boris would get a few votes but serious people do not take Boris seriously. “Boris Island” is a mad scheme by another politician fixated on London. It is ridiculous.

        • YahYah

          He didn’t break anything. What it is that Ukip convinced you that Cameron doesn’t respect you, and that they do, which is, of course, rubbish, but people never get tired of being duped as long the duplicity gives them hope and a community.

          You’re an easy target being sold cheap politics. Because you’re a cripple, Verbal. Because you’re stupid. Because you’re weaker than them.

          • Alexandrovich

            Nice. That’ll get rid of the ‘nasty party’ stigma.

            • YahYah

              I’m not a member of a political party, just a biased observer, but the Tories are not the nasty party, Ukip is. “Nastiness” is just the manifestation of an emotional incontinence that the Tories don’t really have. Their hearts are big enough to keep blood flowing to their brains.

          • ButcombeMan

            You have the same problem as Cameron, you treat those who disagree with you as fools , “fruitcakes” Cameron foolishly said. Cameron is though, usually more civil than you.

            You assume they are not capable of thinking straight, you even foolishly think, they are being SOLD policies by UKIP which is ridiculous. A key feature of UKIP is that it, for the moment at least, has hardly any seriously thought through policies. Those it does have though, hit the spot.

            UKIP is taking voters from both left and right, all parts of the political spectrum, voters extremely dissatisfied with both main parties and many who have never voted..

            The Conservative Party under Cameron, offers me hardly any policy with which I agree. Before Cameron it generally did.

            You have not been here long but it is plain that a large number of people agree with me.

            Cameron has changed the Tories. I do not want to vote for “the heir to Blair”. I despise Blair and Brown and their evil foreign adventures and economically incompetent works.

            Where else is there?.

            • YahYah

              I’m treating you like a fool because you’re refusing to be appeased. I think you’re refusing to be appeased because Ukip have convinced you to distrust the Tories, because it is essential to them that you do. It is essential to them that the Tories can do nothing to regain your support.

              It’s Ukip that has disenfranchised you, insisting that all the imperfections of your relationship with the Conservatives were intolerable.

              I suppose you can settle for what the Conservatives offer, or you can settle for bitter acrimony with Ukip.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                The Camerluvvies offer doctrinaire LibLabCon socialism, lad, speaking of bitter acrimony, which you socialists thrive on.

            • Simon Denis

              It is NOT taking voters symmetrically as well you know. Why have they targeted Tory seats, otherwise? And in our skewed constituencies, the Tories cannot afford these frivolous defections as much as Labour can. You say there are no policies the Tories offer which you can agree with – so no to Gove’s emphasis on traditional examination, then? Or to freeing schools from the deadening freemasonry of the left wing town hall? Or to Theresa May in at last getting Hamza out of this country where all her predecessors had failed and bearing down – despite a left-stuffed Home Office – on non-EU immigration? The large number who agree with you by the bye are your nest of fellow kipper fanatics – and don’t complain about insults; take away insults and your case would amount to nothing. You have not managed to answer with ANY psephological evidence the central point that Nige means Ed; you have not managed to swat aside the policy points made above; you have consistently spoken of Cameron with a degree of personal venom which makes it a shameful thing even to write to you anonymously. I do so merely because it sickens me that such a tide of wilfully stupid bile should represent the right and that it might give anyone the impression that conservatism means churlish, reactionary curs like you. Well, help to hurt the one party which offers half way decent government if you like; support that gurning, flat footed opportunist Farage if you must; but know you are a traitor to the cause; a traitor to the people and above all a traitor to this England which so badly needs to escape from the toils of the EU.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                You’re incredibly stupid, but the most stupid thing about you is that you actually believe you’re one of we conservatives, lad.

                That’s stupid.

              • ButcombeMan

                I largely agree with Gove, but he got sacked. He made some mistakes (because he was in a hurry) but the thrust was right.

                A Gove led party would interest me.

                Theresa May is a joke, intellectually stupid, originator of that so sticking, damaging meme, “the nasty party”.

                She crippled the Tories through that one remark, made to further her career.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Better you tell your Camerluvvie buddies to set out a shopping list of demands they’ll make of the EUSSR, laddie.

        So far, you and they don’t deign to tell the plebs what those are. That’s one of the many reasons Dave’s head is headed for a spike in 8.0 months.

      • Lady Magdalene

        I think the Party has one last chance to ditch Cameron; find itself a BOO Leader and change policy on the EU: we want a Trade Treaty only, not political union.
        But the Party will still split because the minority LibCONs won’t stay in a party that is advocating restoration of our Sovereignty and independence.

        • Makroon

          What about the electorate, do they get a say at all in your “re-engineering Britain” fantasies ?

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …not according to you Camerloons, who are keeping all details of their “renegotiations” hidden.

      • Earthenware

        “Will you set out a shopping list of demands that, if met, will have you all return to the Conservative party?”

        It’s too late for that now. The European Election campaign made it very clear that the Tories now consider us ex-Tories to be the enemy. With the abuse, lies and smears that were heaped upon us, I can say that the feeling is now reciprocated.

        • YahYah

          Huh? Of course you’re the enemy, you muppet. You’re part of a separate political party, in what world do you think that everyone can just get along as each tries to destroy the other’s vote? You always were an enemy, and you’ve always thought of the Conservatives as an enemy, otherwise you would not have behaved the way you have.

          • Earthenware

            I voted Tory for nearly thirty years, but thanks for the confirmation that I’m the enemy.

            It’s good to have it out in the open, at least we all know that the “please come back” noises from the Tories are just hot air.

            • YahYah

              Cry me a river.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …yes, that’s what you’ll be doing 8.0 months from now, lad, when you’re staring at Dave’s head on that spike .

              • Alexandrovich

                Will the Chorna do?

                • YahYah

                  Admittedly that was a more sophisticated word play than I was expecting.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            You above mentioned that there would be a UKIP/Camerloon agreement, and now you’re claiming there will be no “merge”.

            Make up your mind, you clueless Camerloonian muppet.

            • YahYah

              I’m not sure where you think I mentioned that, but I doubt I wrote anything of the sort, because I’ve never thought that would be remotely workable.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Yes, you’re not sure about a lot of things you do, I notice, similar to most of you clueless Camerloonian muppets.

          • ButcombeMan

            Smearing voters who abandoned the Tories because of Cameron and his works, is not smart.

            Cameron calls me a “fruitcake”, Fine, I will reconsider the Tories when he has left th stage.

            • YahYah

              I’m not smearing the voters. That’s what I was trying to say. It’s Ukip that I believe to be disingenuous. Voters are voters, they can and should vote as they want.

              I don’t think Cameron was ever smearing the voters either, but he has a habit of putting his foot in it, and it’s obviously difficult to differentiate once the accusation has been made.

              • ButcombeMan

                “Voters are voters, they can and should vote as they want”.

                Well exactly. If the Cameron offering is unattractive to them, voters will move, I and many others have.

                They should be able to do that without being name called by Cameron.

                If Cameron and the party want those voters back, it is them that must change, that is how our democracy works. Cameron (or whoever takes over from him) must modify what the Tories offer, to more closely align themselves with voter views and aspirations.

                The silly cry vote UKIP, get Milliband and Balls, is rebounding on Cameron. People who oppose Cameron &, distrust him, are digging in. The distrust, especially on Europe, is too deep.

                I do not agree with tactical voting at a General Election . We should all vote for the party that most meets our political views.

        • Simon Denis

          Oh, how convenient; you haven’t actually got any genuine complaints, have you? Name one – go on.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …you’re even dumber than I thought, lad.

          • Earthenware

            “Name one”

            Gay Marriage.

    • misomiso

      In the end it all comes down to Europe.

      The nightmare scenario for the right is DC winning, then winning an IN/OUT referendum with minimal reforms.

      DC can still save the situation, but he needs to set the bar very high of what hes willing to accept from the EU, and go for things he has shied away from for fear of offending the Euro’s, spefically Freedom of Movement and Institutional reform.

      • JoeDM

        I am sure that is exactly his plan !!!

        Cameron has stated that he will never lead the UK out of the EU.

    • chouenlai

      I am well aware that there are many like you in my constituency party. They are almost all elderly and live in the 1960’s. “Queers” should be bashed, “darkies should go home ” and young people would not touch the Tories with a very long stick. By the way, before the usual trolls start their idiocy, I am a 68 year old male who is ex military, ex Business and still a rabid hetrosexual.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …actually, you’re the one trolling this site, lad.

      • ButcombeMan

        Nice.

        No political argument, just a little personal smear.

        And it is “heterosexual”, “rabid” eh?

        Your response tells us much more about you, than it does about me. You sound like the sort of chap to avoid in the pub. I never trust an Army Officer who did not get above Major.

  • Last Man Standing

    Why are we being “wilfully blind” in stating the obvious, that Cameron and Miliband are cut from the same cloth? And perhaps it would have been better to have spoken to the grave disloyalty to the British people which has been perpetrated by the Tory Party (I cannot call them Conservative).

Close