Coffee House

Obama moves against ISIS. This time, it’s a war worth fighting

8 August 2014

8:06 AM

8 August 2014

8:06 AM

Back to Iraq, then. President Obama’s announcement last night that America would intervene militarily in defence of the Kurds is by any standards a stunning development. The President, whom hawks loathe for being a ditherer and a peacenik, has turned into action man, albeit still rather a cautious action man. Republican Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham – the most reliably war-thirsty politicians in Washington – released a statement approving his decision, though of course they used it as an excuse to berate Obama for his failures in the Middle East:

‘The President is right to provide humanitarian relief to the Iraqi civilians stranded on Mount Sinjar and to authorize military strikes against ISIS forces that are threatening them, our Kurdish allies, and our own personnel in northern Iraq. However, these actions are far from sufficient to meet the growing threat that ISIS poses. We need a strategic approach, not just a humanitarian one.’

Even for the more dovish among us, it is hard to make a good moral case against intervening to protect the Yazidis. Who can say the cause is not just? Reports suggest this is a genocide. Everybody agrees that ISIS (or IS) are vile, and that we should not treat them as a nation state – whatever they may say they are. Finally, having spent over a decade bungling its foreign policy, America has a war worth fighting.

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That said, there’s reasons to be cynical.  Why now, exactly? Is it because Erbil – the west’s friend in the region — appealed for help? If so, why are the Kurds worth protecting but not the slaughtered Shias and Christians in the rest of the region?

Obama’s Team America talk does not inspire, either: ‘Earlier this week, one Iraqi in the area cried to the world, “there is no one coming to help”,’ he said (at this point the mood music rouses). ‘Well today, America is coming to help.’

If I were an Iraqi, I’d hardly be comforted by that statement – given America’s record in Mesopotamia. But the US is chiefly responsible for the current state of Iraq – you broke it, you fix it etc – and Obama’s move last night recognised that. Plus, as Rod Dreher puts it, ISIS needs killin’.

 

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Show comments
  • John

    Mark Arabo intends to do aid Iraqi Christians by pressing Congress to pass the Nineveh Plain Refugee Act or HB 5430. This was legislation that he crafted with Congressman Juan Vargas. Please support his efforts at http://minorityhf.org or visit http://online.wsj.com/articles/iraqi-catholic-church-suspends-nine-american-priests-for-leaving-posts-1414189272

  • bansha

    OBAMA, SAVE THE CHRISTIAN GENOCIDE IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. THOSE EVIL BASTARDS NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!!!!

  • Terry Field

    This will not be made right by a few pilots pressing buttons to release laser-guided weapons. The new Islamic world being created in the Middle East is simply the response to the evacuation of the USA from the region – as a result of the pivot to the Pacific. It is this president who has given the nod to all of the Islamic groups across North Africa that they can take power and he will not intervene. Only Egypt had the social fabric capable of withstanding it and rediscovering the secular path.
    He does not do anything to save the huge numbers of Christians dying, as I type this, when his immense power could simply stretch its hand out and easily do so if he wished to.
    The man has no guts. The man has perverse instincts, the man is not an American patriot.
    He has betrayed the legacy of the USA, in the most brutal way possible – by refusing to try, seriously, to correct his countries error.
    Britain can do nothing now; it is an empty husk, a ruin, a vacuum where once was a great nation. It is now a pile of unpayable debt.

  • Simon_in_London

    “you broke it, you fix it”.
    I’m usually against Western military intervention, which has mostly been used to destroy functioning states and create anarchy zones where ‘4th generation war’ entities like IS flourish. But as you say, it’s hard to argue with this one.

  • CountMahdrof

    The boys need a good scrape from time to time to keep them sharp. I know that if I was still serving, and I saw that video of the smug terrorist scum saying “Don’t be cowards and send drones. Send your troops”, I’d have been chomping at the bit to gear up, find that little wanker and introduce him to properly employed American weaponry.

    • Terry Field

      They are correct. All the world sees Western gutlessness as bombs are released by men in pleasant seats miles above the reality.

  • https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/home Dean Jackson

    Guess who “Islamic State” combatants in northern Iraq are? Ukrainian troops posing as Muslim combatants, replete with fake beards and bad wigs! Now you know (1) the West was co-opted decades ago by Marxists; (2) why the Ukrainian population revolted last January (because the Ukrainian military was either in northern Iraq or in southern Turkey preparing to enter Iraq), resulting in the toppling of hundreds of hated statues to Lenin, statues that were supposed to have been toppled back in early 1992; and (3) why the West and its puppet government in Baghdad refused to attack Islamic State back in December.

    The fraudulent “collapse” of the USSR (and East Bloc) couldn’t have been pulled off until both political parties in the United States (and political parties elsewhere in the West) were co-opted by Moscow & Allies, which explains why verification of the “collapse” was never undertaken by the West, such verification being (1) a natural administrative procedure (since the USSR wasn’t occupied by Western military forces); and (2) necessary for the survival of the West. Recall President Reagan’s favorite phrase, “Trust, but verify”.

    Notice that not one political party in the West demanded verification of the collapse of the USSR, and the media failed to alert your attention to this fact, including the “alternative” media. When determining whether the “former” USSR is complying with arms control treaties, what does the United States do to confirm compliance? Right, the United States sends into the “former” USSR investigative teams to VERIFY compliance, yet when it’s the fate of the West that’s at stake should the collapse of the USSR be a ruse, what does the United States do to confirm the collapse? Nothing!

    It gets worse–the West also never (1) de-Communized the Soviet Armed Forces of its Communist Party officer corps, which was 90% officered by Communist Party members; and (2) arrested and detained the 6-million vigilantes that assisted the Soviet Union’s Ministry of the Interior control the populations of the larger cities during the period of “Perestroika” (1986-1991)!

    There was no verification, de-Communization and de-mobilization.

    • Terry Field

      Yes – but you have missed out the bit about Peppa Pig being Cameron’s controller from Moscow Central.

  • bullet2354

    Not stunning at all – Kurds are a sensible group, a good alley – why it took so long is the question.

    Muslims – a defense contractors best friend.

    • NotYouNotSure

      I have never understand how so many people see Kurds and Muslims as a different groups – Most Kurds are Muslims !

      • bullet2354

        True – but . . .

        1 -Kurds rarely show up as violent perps. (Rarely if ever at – http://www.thereligionofpeace.com )

        2- Islam can be political – it’s tenets a motive for violence. But Kurds are identified based on Culture and not religion. Those tenets do not go as far.

        3 – There are many Kurds who are not Islamic, although the majority are.

      • Simon_in_London

        Maybe all those blond Kurdish children are a factor?

  • The Laughing Cavalier

    Too little, too late.

    • Living

      It’s never too late to do the right thing but it certainly is too little.

      • Terry Field

        It is too late. You are incorrect.

  • The Masked Marvel

    A cynical person might see Obama’s careful choice of words as an open hint to Hamas. Curiously, Isabel left out the most important bit:

    “….when civilians are threatened to be murdered on a horrific scale and we have a mandate to help, in this case a request from the Iraqi government, then I believe the United States cannot turn a blind eye”

    Now all Hamas have to do is ask, and the ‘human rights’ crowd will say it’s a mandate as well.

    • Damaris Tighe

      This is just what I’ve been suspecting – that there will be a trade off between intervention against the Islamists in Iraq & support of the Islamists of Gaza.

      • The Masked Marvel

        I’m probably being very silly and paranoid, but the language being used here has so many open doors it’s not funny. Especially now that the BBC have broadcast the DEC Hamas Are Heroes Gaza Crisis Appeal. On all channels, just to let everyone know how important it is.

        At least now nobody can claim the BBC is run by Zionists.

  • CraigET

    If Obama had not applied his own relativism to the USA’s involvement in Iraq this could have been avoided. Whether or not you think it was a mistake to invade Iraq in 2003, it was a bigger mistake to withdraw less than ten years later. Not to mention ISIS/IS began as opposition to Assad, and were both actively supported and indirectly armed by the UK/USA in Syria and Iraq respectively.

    • Carl Jacobson

      The Iraqi withdrawal agreement was authorized and signed by GW Bush, not Obama – most of the NeoCon Republicans conveniently forget that.fact.

      The Obama administration tried to renegotiate with the Iraqi government to delay US withdrawal or leave a US troop presence in Iraq – they refused.

      Obama priority for his 2nd term has been the recovery of the US economy – he knows that if he can keep the US out any more expensive foreign wars and occupations that the economy will improve.

      Obama is looking towards his presidential legacy – to leave the US in a better condition than when he took office.

      As far as I’ve read, the US provided – the US only supplied food and medical supplies to the syrian rebels not weapons. Of course, I could be wrong about that one.

      The US should throw their support behind the Kurds, who control the only stable region in Iraq. The kurds really do deserve their own autonomous state. They are an ancient population in the region, who were cheated out of their own nation-state when the Allied nations of Britain and France carved up the Ottotam Empire into protectorates after WW1.

      The kurds were promised their own country but ended up getting screwed when historical kurdistan was divided between Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran.

  • http://www.naturestudio.net van Chapman

    On the news about Obama deciding to intervene in Iraq to protect religious minorities against ISIS. – Commentary: – Obama gets criticized by Muslims if he intervenes or not. -Important here is not a question of opinion or belief, but Justice. – It is justice for the strong to protect the weak, the religious minorities, against the absurd belief that calls for a pending massacre and genocide in name of the Most Wise and Most Merciful. -There is no sacred place which is won by bloody war. Sacred is the understanding, the true love between people -What this Jihad is not. – Wisdom is not to destroy the student, the ignorant, but the ignorance itself. Wisdom is not to destroy the enemies, the adversaries, but turn them into friends, through clearing it up with reason. If someone cannot do this, and calls for jihad, he cannot call himself Omnipotent.
    – To believe in such a contradiction with mercy and wisdom, in name of the ‘Most Wise’ and ‘Merciful’ may be that one is a sentimental victim and slave of a tyrannic barbarism, but it will never be loyalty to the truth, or anyone, much less to a higher ethics or intelligence.

  • http://www.naturestudio.net van Chapman

    Obama gets criticized by Muslims if he intervenes or not. Important here is not a question of opinion or belief but Justice. It is justice for the strong to protect the weak, the religious minorities, against the absurd belief that calls for a pending massacre and genocide in name of the Most Wise and Most Merciful.-There is no sacred place which is won by bloody war. Sacred is the understanding and love between people. Wisdom is not to destroy the ignorant, but the ignorance. Wisdom is not to destroy the adversaries but turn them into friends. If a God, If someone cannot do this, and calls for jihad, he cannot call himself Omnipotent.To believe such a contradiction in name of the Most Merciful may only be that one is a sentimental victim and slave of a tyrannic barbarism, but it will never be to be loyal to the truth or anyone, much less to a higher ethics or intelligence.https://twitter.com/van_chapman/media

  • Gwangi

    We see the true face of Islam in ISIS. No doubt many British Muslims support them too – like Warsi, for example – and will protest when these vile monsters are bombed.

  • http://www.naturestudio.net van Chapman

    Obama gets criticized by Muslims if he intervenes or not. Important here is not a question of opinion or belief but Justice. It is justice for the strong to protect the weak, the religious minorities, against the absurd belief that calls for a pending massacre and genocide in name of the Most Wise and Most Merciful.-There is no sacred place which is won by bloody war. Sacres is the understanding and love between people. Wisdom is not to destroy the ignorant, but the ignorance. Wisdom is not to destroy the adversaries but turn them into friends. If a God, If someone cannot do this, and calls for jihad, he cannot call himself Omnipotent. To believe such a contradiction in name of the Most merciful may only be for one is a sentimental victim and slave of a tyrannic barbarism, but it will never be to be loyal to the truth or anyone, much less to a higher ethics or intelligence. https://twitter.com/van_chapman/media

  • will91

    Show them no mercy. Bomb these savages back to the stone age.

  • Michael Sager

    The difference between intervening on behalf of Kurdistan against ISIS and on behalf of Israel against Hamas is???????
    Apart, of course, that Israel seems to be managing to defend itself in spite of attempts to enfeeble it by Kerry + Qatar + Turkey.

  • zanzamander

    If Israel stopped defending itself and gave up its arms and ammunition as requested by the entire world and his dog in exchange for peace in the Middle East, the plight of Yazidis would pale into insignificance compared to what Islamists would do to the Jews of Israel.

  • bengeo

    How about sanctions against Saudi Arabia for bankrolling and arming ISIS?

  • zanzamander

    How many minorities is US/EU prepared to protect from genocide, how many “races” have already been obliterated? Islamists will keep us busy for a long time sucking us of our morale and treasure until in the end we will have no fight left in us.

    The war against Islamists is already lost. Isis flags are already flying in our capital. Jews are already being driven out again from cities across Europe. Christians and other non-Muslims are being hounded out from nearly all Islamic countries around the world. We’ve already tacitly accepted Sharia and other Islamic norms, that only a couple of decades ago, would have been totally unacceptable. Islamist takeover of our schools and colleges has now gone underground.

    I pray for the Yazidis and hope, if this country lets in one immigrant from an Islamic country that we accept a hundred Yazidis, Christians and other persecuted non-Muslim minorities from Islamic countries.

    Btw, has Obama or Kerry given their boilerplate caveat? You know the one, that this is not a war on Muslims or Islam and that Islam is a religion of peace corrupted by these non-Muslims?

    • Damaris Tighe

      Like the Woolwich head choppers who, we were told, were not representing the RoP even though they quoted chunks of their holy book to explain their actions.

    • robbie99

      Agreed.
      Way too many Moslems have been let into the West and not enough Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Jews and Buddhists-religions which as a rule are happy to ‘live and let live’ when in their adopted countries and generally have a positive impact economically and socially.
      Islam is NOT compatible with our way of life! And yet (despite my point above re other religions) I would be deemed a racist by the FASCIST LEFT!

      • Bonkim

        Do we want more Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Jews and Buddhists either?

        • robbie99

          Whether we want more immigration is a fair question! My point was that as a rule these religions do not cause the problems that Moslems do. Their cultures are such that they are able to make a positive impact on their host society and IF we are to have more immigration we do not need any more Moslem immigration!

          • Bonkim

            Goes against the principle of equality.

            • robbie99

              Equality of what? Do you mean it would not be fair if we stopped Muslims coming in but let in others? If that is what you mean then my response would be that the others do not cause social unrest and breed terrorism!

              • Bonkim

                There are many elements in British society that do more harm but not seen as harmful. Whilst Islamic terrorists appear in high profile and their activity particularly overseas seem dastardly – check out the numbers of crimes including murders, swindles, rape, etc, etc, carried out by those not specifically referred by race or religion.

                British legal system is there to safeguard society from all criminals – unlikely that stopping Muslims from coming in will make much of a difference to the overall harm that is being done or potential harm to Britain.

  • http://i-squared.blogspot.co.uk/ Katabasis

    And here we go again. The laptop bombardiers come out in force and assert their godlike epistemological faculties to know in advance who should live and who should die and what the consequences of this will be.

    ISIS don’t seem to hold back at all on the barbarism or ruthlessness. When they realise they’ve invoked the commitment of “the great satan”, how long before they start imitating Hamas’ tactics and using ordinary Iraqis and Syrians as human shields?

  • HookesLaw

    ‘ We need a strategic approach, not just a humanitarian one.’ This is correct and it is what dim tory back benchers scuppered when they voted with an opportunistic Labour Party over Syria.
    Obama needs to be sure to finish what he starts.

  • Colin

    “it’s a war worth fighting”

    Go fight it, then, Eisenhower.

  • robbie99

    Looking forward to the mass protests this weekend by the UK’s Moslems/leftists/stop the war coalition etc against the attempted genocide against the Christians and Shias in Northern Iraq! Crucifixions/beheadings/slicing children in half/forced conversions etc!
    The truth is these people do not give a sh#t about how many Christians/Kurds/Shia Moslem civilians get buthered by the ISIS scum, they will only protest if it is Israel! The hypocrisy is unbelievable!

    • Damaris Tighe

      The hypocrisy is also on these pages. There are posters here recommending that ISIS be ‘bombed into the stone age’ who have posted elsewhere their outrage at Israel’s operation in Gaza. Absolutely jaw-dropping.

      • Des Demona

        Are you too dense to realise the situations are entirely different?

      • robbie99

        Very true!
        But surely by bombing ISIS into the ‘stone age’ would be a forward step in their evolution!!

  • The Laughing Cavalier

    What does Her Ladyship,Sayeeda Warsi, have to say about the genocidal maniacs of ISIS now that she is no longer constrained by government office? Come to think of it, we haven’t heard from Dave “we’re a Christian nation” Cameron. Why not?

  • Augustus

    “It’s hard not to be impressed by the transformation”

    It’s also hard to apply the term ‘Commander-in-Chief’ to him too. More so than any other U.S. president. Dropping relief to those stranded on an Iraqi mountain will do little to end the bleeding that is Iraq. Half-hearted half measures only strengthen the resolve of jihadists.The U.S.military is not meant to be used as a political face saving measure, but that is all that Obama is really doing.

  • saffrin

    “The President, whom hawks loathe for being a ditherer and a peacenik, has turned into action man, albeit rather a cautious action man.”

    What’s that a joke?
    Obama has been involved in, encouraged and/or supplied arms to just about any rebel group in the asking since they awarded him the Nobel peace prize.
    Now all of that incitement, free money and weaponry is coming back to bite Obama in
    the a** in the names of ISIS and Putin.

  • CharlietheChump

    These things are easy to start, hard to finish. Fly a few drones, fire a few rockets, drop a few bombs and aid parcels. Then what?

  • alabenn

    We have enough problems here with the failed multicultural experiment that has collapsed.
    Anything that clown Obama does will make things worse, that foolishness will be confirmed with Cameron and Wallace nodding their donkey heads in agreement.
    Time to leave this fetid sewer, let it descend into the carnage that is going to happen regardless of what the fantasists here in the West want, they can outbreed the bombs of the West, they will certainly have the patience, nothing we do will halt this, trying will make it a more prolonged, these people offer death to their children, they are proud to do so, they are not humane in the Western sense, time to let the curtain fall on this whole disgusting saga.

  • Des Demona

    I’m not exactly a hawk by any means however in this case I do believe these mad dogs should be bombed back to the stone age, which unfortunately is probably where they’d like to head anyway.
    It is a pity that it can be spun that they are talking of intervention now only because Christians are being persecuted, however no matter what the circumstances at the time of intervention it would always be spun by the Jihadis as a ”war on Muslims”
    So crack on, do the world a favour and show these brutal Islamists that their barbaric behaviour will not be tolerated by the civilised world.

    • telemachus

      Indeed
      Lilly livered Cameron and Obama should never have pulled out
      Lessons for Afghanistan?

    • Blindsideflanker

      And you will get the likes of Warsi getting on her high horse, and rather than challenging her bigotry, the British establishment will buckle.

      We not only need to bomb these Jihadists back to the stone age, but we also need to ensure these Jihadists have no space in our society. They need to be shouted down and harassed, but unfortunately we have an establishment who boast about their tolerance, which is spin for their moral cowardice.

      • alabenn

        The Stone Age would be a modernising experiment with these people, try the Jurassic Age.

      • Damaris Tighe

        “we not only need to bomb these jihadists back to the stone age ..”: But I remember that you held an opposite opinion to the bombing of Hamas.

        • Blindsideflanker

          Then you remember incorrectly for the only comment I have made on the Israeli Palestinian conflict was to say a plague on both their houses.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Six days ago you described the war in Gaza as “over the top & murderous responses from the Government of Israel”. How does that square with your enthusiasm for bombing ISIS “back to the stone age”?

    • arnoldo87

      Careful now, Des – as far as I can tell, Obama is about to become a war criminal, as I am sure the usual non-interventionist suspects will remind you any time soon.
      Or will they? – They seem a bit thin on the ground at the moment.

      • telemachus

        He will get a Congressional Medal of Honour
        But not until he has apologised for pulling out in the first place
        *
        Just what is Cameron doing looking at fish in Cornwall?

    • Damaris Tighe

      And what will you say if civilians also get killed when ISIS are bombed back into the stone age? Will you want the US to stop or will you want them to grit their teeth & carry on?

      • Des Demona

        I’m not going to get involved in whataboutery regarding Gaza. They are very different situations. Suffice to say, given the different battlefield conditions it is entirely possible for targeted strikes to wipe out large numbers of fighters only and this is what I’d expect the US to do.

        • Damaris Tighe

          I see. As I think will other readers.

          • Des Demona

            Good.

  • arnoldo87

    The failure of American policy was to insist on a withdrawal from Iraq, and to refuse to support the original Syrian rebels in 2011 when they had the upper hand over Assad.

    Both of those decisions had overwhelming support from both British and American electorates, and yet it is those very decisions that have directly led to the ISIS dominance in Northern Iraq.

    We all need to understand that the West is in a war with the Islamic Jihadists, and that it can be fought early and remotely, or it can be fought later from a far weaker position and probably closer to home.

    Or, of course, as the LibDems would recommend, we could leave it all to the United Nations.

  • anyfool

    I do not give a fig for these savages, they are beyond reason, each and every one of them, regardless of which branch of Islam they follow.
    The more they hack and savage each other to death the less that will be left to propagate their vile ideology else where.
    The main problem we in the West face is they are here now, that is the only problem we should be addressing, the notion that it is over there and will make its way here unless we do something is a nonsense, that stable door is still wide open, the horse has bolted and the stable is full of interlopers, time to evict the lodgers, then shut the door.

    • Blindsideflanker

      They are already hear, as I pointed out below , the British Government is allowing the ISIS flag to be flown over a Poplar estate .

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/flag-isis-jihadi-islamic-state-flown-poplar-east-london

    • telemachus

      Forget the Muslims if that is what your pejorative post refers to
      This is to save the Christians
      Blair and Bush were not wrong
      This truly is a Crusade
      We will complete Urban II .s edict

      • anyfool

        You are the most slimy creature ever yet to slither out of the Labour Swamp, they were killing Christians while Blair was PM, what did he do, nothing, he even pretended to have no great faith.

        Why your sudden love of Christians, is your party finding the Muslim supporters it imported is not helping its aim of permanent power.

        You picked the wrong horse for this stable.

        • telemachus

          Tolerant multiculturalism at home and abroad is the aim of all reasonable people
          Right now the priority is to save the Christians in Iraq who have stark choices-renounce-flee and starve – or be put to the sword

          • Andy

            Just save them in Iraq ? What about Muslim intolerance and persecution of Christians (and other faiths) all across the Muslim world ? Even in supposedly secular Turkey the Orthodox Church faces subtle persecution and discrimination. And yet you have nothing to say about any of this.

            I’m sure you would agree that it would only be right and proper that we apply the same degree of tolerance for Islam that Muslims show for our Christian Brothers and Sisters.

            • telemachus

              We talk massacre here
              A massacre that could have been avoided if Cameron and Obama had acted differently in Iraq

              • Kitty MLB

                Er ! Cameron and Obama were not around during the last Iraq war..you meant Libya.
                Which was a consequence of the Iraq war..
                So wasp do we start again ..fighting someone
                elses eternal war and more lives to be sacrificed.

                • arnoldo87

                  He meant not withdrawing allied troops from Iraq.

                • telemachus

                  You misunderstand
                  Probably deliberately
                  It was Cameron and Obama that pulled out and allowed all the good that Blair and Bush did to unravel

                • Kitty MLB

                  Eh! all the good that Blair and Bush had done.
                  You mean sacrifice lives of our soldiers, play into the hands of evil, give that evil a reason to attack us, encourage a Islamic terrorist state to flourish in the middle east, make us
                  in the West weakened and vulnerable and invite a medieval
                  and savage cult to live amongst us in the UK.
                  Are we safe from the Muslims here, can you answer that?

                • telemachus

                  Blair and Bush prevented the current scenario until Obama/Cameron undid it
                  Remember ISIS was generated in Syria
                  It would have started years ago if we had not gone in

            • telemachus

              A decent fighting force against the Caliphate will crush them and see their support melt away

              • Augustus

                Yes, and that ‘decent fighting force’ will be Israel, who will be compelled to turn its attention to the IS threat gathering pace.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Augustus, please see a couple of comments here from people recommending that ISIS be ‘bombed into the stone age’ but have elsewhere posted their opposition to Israel’s war on Hamas!

                • telemachus

                  No
                  We need UK and US boots
                  We absolutely want nothing to do with the Israel rogue state

                • Augustus

                  The greatest disaster of all has nothing to do with the State of Israel, it’s right here in Europe. already in our cities, challenging our Judeo-Christian values. It’s Islam coming to challenge our silly notion of multiculturalism, and it has only one goal: To wipe our European culture off the face of the Earth in favour of the desert culture of Islam.

              • Andy

                Members of ISIS should be shown no mercy, but should be executed on the spot. That would make ‘their support melt away’.

          • Holly

            Like I say,’be nice to these nutjobs at your peril.
            The Muslims already here will not be looked upon favourably, because as far as the nutjobs are concerned, they are ‘westernised’.

            • telemachus

              Yes but the so called nutjobs are the minority
              You must believe in the sanctity of the human spirit

              • Holly

                This ‘minority’ your’e on about are pretty numbered, and are so far winning, do not care about your inane ramblings, and will probably never read them.
                They would show you as much mercy as they are to all the other faiths they are butchering.
                Hundreds from Britain have travelled over there, and there are many more being stoked up by the likes of Galloway, who are still here.

                • trotters1957

                  a cretin speaks

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Stop speaking then.

                • Holly

                  Let him say what he likes.
                  I put it down to him knowing that what I say is correct, but dare not say so.

            • trotters1957

              a cretin

          • Blindsideflanker

            “Tolerant multiculturalism at home and abroad is the aim of all reasonable people”

            No it is the spin people use to hide their moral cowardice.

            • telemachus

              I advocate not hiding now
              Nor did Blair
              But there has to be an end game
              In the end we all must live peacefully in the world

              • Colonel Mustard

                You are naive about evil, when you are not openly supporting it. Sometimes for good to prevail evil has to be obliterated not “embraced”. And none of your trite projections about Tories and the right wing here, none of your bogus relativism.

                It is people like you who cause most war and death because you give succour to those who see it as a means to an end rather than understanding those who resort to it to survive.

                • telemachus

                  Yes
                  ISIS are evil and should be bombed to glory

                • Colonel Mustard

                  A couple of weeks ago you were posting triumphalist hubris here about their Chief Wizard and telling us how fine and strong a leader he is.

                • telemachus

                  Strong but evil
                  Someone occasionally tells me that about the chap who saved us all from H*tler

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You admire strong but evil. You disregard evil when it is for a cause you admire. You have admitted as much. You are vile.

              • lookout

                Lefty, coward, an absolute excuse, no doubt a Galloway supporter

          • lookout

            So, is Israel allowed to fight against the mad mullahs now? Israel is a multicultural society and a tolerant one at that, unlike Britain, it’s surrounded by nutters, some of them, nuclear nutters. If Israel doesn’t fight, they will be put to the sword, will you now recognize that Israel has to take the gloves off?

            • telemachus

              If Israel were tolerant we would have a 2 State solution and peace

              • Colonel Mustard

                That is a fatuous and bogus statement. Israel internally is a far more tolerant country than Hamas-controlled Palestine or any other Islamic state and you know it.

                You are a vile peddler of lies, provocations and outrageous misrepresentations.

                • telemachus

                  Israel internally
                  That is the point
                  It is their hegemony and destruction of the Palestine State that is evil

                • Colonel Mustard

                  They are not trying to destroy the Palestine State. They could do that in a day if they wanted to. You know it too, but you choose to lie, to get your own way, as your party does.

              • Holly

                Hamas resumed firing rockets into Israel as soon as the cease fire ended.

                • telemachus

                  Israel did not do as asked and lift the economic blockade (an old style siege-starve them out)

                • lookout

                  The blockade is to stop arms, pure and simpl

              • lookout

                You’ve already got that, one state is sending rockets into
                another, how tolerant are Hamas, ISIS and Hezbollah watch the videos on Walid Shoebat.com,

              • lookout

                Can they take the gloves off?

            • Damaris Tighe

              No, Israel/Gaza is different, or so I’ve been told by a poster here who wants to bomb ISIS “into the stone age”.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Another lie. You cannot possibly speak for the “aim of all reasonable people”. All you speak for are an extremist cult of hard left misfits lurking in the Labour party and pretending they are something they are not.

      • Augustus

        “Forget the Muslims….”

        Yes, and be a hypocrite like you. Islamic State jihadists have taken over large areas of Iraq where they’ve occupied churches and removed crosses and burnt manuscripts and holy books. But that’s what’s so hypocritical about Muslims. They have such reverence for their own holy book, just to even think of handling it they use gloves, but others holy books can simply be trashed and burnt. That’s not normal civilized behaviour.

        • telemachus

          Perhaps I should have said forget the inter-Muslim conflicts.

      • HookesLaw

        What a crass dumb comment – bringing up ‘crusades’.

      • The Masked Marvel

        You really are a wind-up artist. You don’t believe half the things you say, and this is proof.

  • Lady Magdalene

    Bush and Blair are responsible for this. Their lies over WMD, their illegal war and their failure to properly plan for peace have completely destabilised the Middle East and is killing millions. How they can live with themselves is beyond me.

    • telemachus

      No the faint hearts that pulled us out were responsible
      The current debacle would have happened earlier as Saddam was swept away in the way Assad is being swept away next door

  • @PhilKean1

    .
    Ebola epidemic and Iraqi genocide : never has foreign aid been more urgent.

    So where is Britain? What relief will be provided from the now £12 bln per annum that this farce of a Tory-led Government allocates for Foreign Aid?

    The facts are that the UK Government will be doing exactly what it has increasingly done since British politics was hijacked by the Europhile Liberal-left – NOTHING!
    .

    • telemachus

      Yes we need strong government

      Remember tis 5 days ago

      Ed Miliband has intensified his criticism of David Cameron for the prime minister’s failure to condemn Israel’s “unacceptable and unjustifiable” killing of civilians in Gaza.
      It is the same issue a bully and a minority

      • Blindsideflanker

        The left supporting the Palestinians doesn’t come from logic , it is just reflex action,

        • Andy

          The Left, like the Fascist telemachus, love to support tyranny and murder. They are busy supporting Hamas, but Hamas would slit their throats without a second thought.

          • telemachus

            Hamas do not murder Christians for the sake of it
            ISIS are Medieval

            • Craig Millar

              you’re right they dont. They murder Christians, Jews, Palestinians, Sunnis, Shi’ites and anyone who stands in the way of the destruction of israel and the restoration of an islamic state in the ‘holy land’

              • telemachus

                Hamas have now accepted the 2 State solution
                Have Israel?

                • Holly

                  Shame that Hamas started firing on Israel as soon as the cease-fire ended.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  If you believe that Hamas have sincerely accepted the 2 state solution (their genocidal charter still stands) then you’re even more daft than I thought.

                • telemachus

                  Yes
                  They want peace and prosperity now
                  Do not stand in the way

                • Damaris Tighe

                  The truce has just ended & Hamas started firing missiles again. They certainly have a funny way of demonstrating they want peace & prosperity.

                • Gafto

                  Maybe Hamas are really yearning for the ‘charismatic one’. Maybe ‘Andy’ could help, or Yvette, or better still, the ‘telegenic’ Tristram.

                • logdon

                  As in ‘from the river to the sea’?

                  You are either a total idiot or a liar.

            • Kitty MLB

              No ! wake up, Islam is medieval and they want to dominate and send Christians in the Middle East as well as the West to oblivion and Jews also, and probably all other religions too.
              Having no humanity does that.
              There is a saying, I think from Churchill: He that feeds the crocodile first hoping it’ll eat him last.
              Labour have been defending an evil that will happily eat us
              and invited it into our country.

              • telemachus

                Muslim folk I know here in the North seem no different from those I meet at 8 O’clock on Sundays

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Given your comments here that is not exactly reassuring.

            • logdon

              No they murder Christians because they hate them.

              Your ignorance of Islam is quite astounding.

          • Holly

            They haven’t sussed that last bit yet.
            They would be the first to go.
            I doubt very much that they would be given the choice to convert, die or flee either, and as long as they think they can ‘be nice’ to these barbaric nutjobs, the more they endanger everyone.

            • trotters1957

              cretin again

          • Kitty MLB

            The heading says that this time its a war worth fighting. Is that
            not stamping on the graves of those who dies in the first Iraq war ?
            Will the left think more blood should be shed and more of our military should die for someone else’s eternal war. And defend those as you say who would slit our throats without giving it a second thought.

      • @PhilKean1

        It isn’t the same issue. And who is Ed Miliband?

        Always baffles me why people lend credibility to totally incredible political entities.
        .

        • telemachus

          Our failure to point out injustice in the Levant whether similar or not has put us on the backfoot with the Baghdad authorities

      • saffrin

        You need to forget about that waste of space Miliband and start thinking about who will replace him when Labour come third in the next General Election.

        • telemachus

          I partly agree
          Ed Balls will take over as PM soon after Labour accede next May

          • saffrin

            Ed Balls is finished.
            His credibility is less than Miliband and Harriet Harman is 100% fruit cake.

            • telemachus

              Folks like him
              He makes all smile

              • Colonel Mustard

                Another lie. He might make you and the other Labour loonies and misfits smile but you don’t speak for the whole population.

                You conflate the perception of telemachus (narrow and bigoted beyond belief) with a broader perception you cannot possibly quantify. And you seem to have no self awareness or shame for your blatant lies.

              • Holly

                Labour hater!

        • John Gerard

          Labour will win, I’m sorry to say.

          • saffrin

            On what grounds?
            Labour have nothing to offer. There is nothing about them that inspires confidence and they are still in denial regards their thirteen years of disaster.
            If they still fail to understand they are the cause of today’s problems, how can we hope for things to improve when the idiots running the country refuse to see what is broke?

          • Holly

            NO they will not.
            I am glad to say.
            Miliband will jump on yet another bandwagon, by supporting Iraq intervention.
            IF he doesn’t, we will know who’s votes he thinks are more important.

      • Colonel Mustard

        “Everybody agrees that ISIS (or IS) are vile”

        You don’t though. A couple of weeks ago you were praising the “strong leadership” of their Chief Wizard here in the usual repulsive hagiography. You are vile too.

        • telemachus

          I will simply repost my comment from the Boris/Cameron thread

          *

          All Ad Hominem
          Mynydd and .telemachus are confident in the knowledge that we have right and the zeitgeist with us
          We are looking to the coming return to fair egalitarian government
          But what do you want?
          Who are you?
          We detest more the vascillators and those who simply criticise censure and admonish without creed or alternative proposition
          Those who cannot nail their colours to the mast
          Better Norman Tebbit, John Redwood and Keith Joseph than those with no inner core

          • Colonel Mustard

            You are correct, that is all ad hominem. You should not conflate your refusal to accommodate any truth with a perceived absence of values on my part. I know what my values are and one of them is to confront your many lies and hypocrisies. You are vile, telemachus, and all good people here know it well. It is no good citing your equally vile comrades in mischief as any evidence of your right.

            But what you have done here is what you usually do, which is to duck the issue addressed (your recent enthusiasm for the ISIS Chief Wizard) and to resort instead to an ad hominem accusation. In fact that is what your party also habitually does.

            Your simplistic, almost cretinous imperative, that because you say you are caring and reasonable then you are, is belied by the many atrocious statements you have made here endorsing racism, genocide, mass-murder, censorship, oppression and many of the other crimes that are used to impose and enforce your communist ideology. You even praised the racist and religious bigot Galloway.

            • Gafto

              Spot on Colonel.

    • Blindsideflanker

      It was always the case that while the propaganda for the Aid policy centred around immunisation programs etc, the reality was that this represents a very small percentage of the budget, as Dfid pumped money into Aid bureaucracies, consultants, and corrupt political classes in order for them to meet their target of spending 12 billion.

      • @PhilKean1

        It is rarely mentioned that Britain’s actually has 2 Foreign Aid budgets: the £12 bln wasted by our own Government, and the billions of UK money sprayed around by the corrupt EU.
        .

        • Blindsideflanker

          I believe that about £500 million goes on disaster relief. £2.5 billion goes on medical projects like immunisation. £9 billion on all the other rubbish.

          If asked people would think the spending was the other way around.

          • Andy

            So lets save £9 billion. Would help the deficit.

            • @PhilKean1

              The majority of Britain’s £12 bln Foreign Aid budget could be cut from the program and WOULD help reduce the deficit. While we could spend the remainder on genuine emergency situations instead of wasting it where it isn’t needed.
              .

    • you_kid

      Re: foreign space programmes (it helps if you spelt it in British English)

      Is Richard Branson still feasting on the British taxpayer too to fund his?

      • @PhilKean1

        Is Richard Branson still feasting on the British taxpayer, too, to fund his?

        Proper punctuation goes along way, too.
        .

      • Airey Belvoir

        ‘Aides your point’ in a sniping post about British English: A classic ‘fail!’

        • you_kid

          Thanx for your kind aids-memoire.

          • Gafto

            You are better off not posting. Everything you write is drivel. To castigate another poster’s use of English when you yourself clearly don’t have a grasp shows what sort of an idiot you are.

            • you_kid

              You are dumb. When someone says ‘shoot’, you shoot. That’s all you dumb are capable of. Was that plain eneough?

              • Gafto

                In response to your two grammatically incorrect and nonsensical questions; firstly, not really and secondly, not really sure how to answer that one.

                Like I said, you write drivel.

                • you_kid

                  I am not paid, to write what I want.
                  Boy.

                • Gafto

                  More incoherent drivel.

    • Gwangi

      Africa has received zillions in aid over the last 50 years and is poorer now than it was then. Most aid is stolen or misused. That is why Africa has so many millionaires and billionaires who do nothing to help their own people, so why should we? Aid is a big industry in The West – and exists largely for itself and its employees.

      Trade, not aid, is what is needed – yet the EU blocks that to protect EU (usually French) farmers! China does not give aid. It builds things in return for mineral rights and land (so in the future food for China will be grown and harvested in Africa). And you don’t seriously think any African appreciates our aid! They actually hate us for giving it!

      A bit of population control would be great for the prospects of large wildlife too, seeing as African countries’ populations have quadrupled in those 50 years too.

      As for Iraq. Bomb ISIS into ashes. That is all that will work.

      • @PhilKean1

        Hard to disagree with you.
        .

  • JoeDM

    ISIS and islamofascism is the biggest threat to western liberal democratic freedoms and values that we face today.

    The ‘Arab Spring’ has been a disaster and has left the middle east in chaos. We now have to ensure that the religious based fascism does not spread west.

    • telemachus

      It will not
      The American Southern Baptists will go nuclear before then

  • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

    Better late than never…

  • Blindsideflanker

    This shows the decadence of the British establishment, who have become hide bound by the diktats of the cultural Marxists that have determined that minorities are good while indigenous values are bad, which leaves them unable to act when Muslims are slaughtering Christians in Iraq.

    It has been mentioned here before at the pathetic response by the British Government to people, from Britain, who have joined ISIS. The say they are concerned about the possibility they will resort to terrorism here, but they don’t provocatively go after them, strip them of their nationality, or seek to prosecute them for being a member of an irregular military force which is against the law.

    The British state is allowing the ISIS flag being flown over a Poplar estate, and they do diddely squat about it.

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      They will now, on the USA’s coattails again.

    • telemachus

      “Even for the more dovish among us, it is hard at this point to see a good moral case against intervening to protect the Yazidis”
      *
      Absolutely we need to get in there
      Bring back Blair

      • Blindsideflanker

        Blair would have been supporting ISIS against the Syrian Government.

        • telemachus

          No
          He would have out tanks smash them to glory
          I see a common cause for Kerry and Hammond here
          We cannot rely on Cameron

          • Blindsideflanker

            Not no, yes, Blair made it clear that we needed to take down Al Assad, just as he participated in taking out Hussein in Iraq, which would have had him supporting ISIS.

            • telemachus

              That is not quite true
              If we had got stuck in early in Syria ISIS would probably not exist

              • logdon

                And if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle.

      • Pootles

        It was Blair and his boss, Bush, who opened the door to this bloody awful mess in the first place.

        • telemachus

          No
          Saddam would have fallen to a Syrian scenario and the ISIS debacle would have happened sooner
          Blair and Bush done good
          Obama and Cameron pulled out to let ISIS in

          • Pootles

            Really? And on what basis do you come to that piece of total speculation?

            • telemachus

              There are absolute parallels between Syria and Iraq
              The Saddam regime was nearing an ISIS crumble when we went in

              • Pootles

                Rot. One thing that Iraq did not have under Saddam was mad Islamicism – in fact, Osama bin Laden condemned the regime for that sole reason. It was the Bush/Blair invasion that opened the door for the Islamists, with today’s consequences. You are a fantasist. Oh, and when you say ‘when we went in’, can you give us some details of your military service in the Iraq war?

                • arnoldo87

                  In 2010, when coalition troops were still in Iraq, it was a relatively calm country with a nascent, basic democracy, albeit under a particularly unwise leader. The death toll, although far too high by conventional standards, had dropped to pre- invasion levels. This was well after the departure of both Blair and Bush.

                  Then two things happened that electors on both sides of the Atlantic supported. Firstly the allied troops withdrew from Iraq, and in 2011 the West refused to support the ordinary, non-Jihadist rebels who had the upper hand over Assad.

                  The result was that ISIS were able to step in and dominate Eastern Syria and then Northern Iraq.

                  The desperately tragic situations in both Syria and Iraq are DIRECT consequences of Obama’s foreign policy.

                  It really is a joke to blame it on Blair and Bush, neither of whom would have removed troops from Iraq or failed to support the FSA.

    • Holly

      Well said.
      The coffee smells good, once you wake up and smell it.
      The silence of the Muslim communities is deafening.

  • telemachus

    To paraphrase a post I just replied to MLB
    *
    There is disquiet that the current mess is due to Bush who was wrong and the world was better off with Saddam
    Saddam in fact was slowly crumbling and would have faced a Syrian type situation probably earlier than it is now
    Fate is fate
    *
    This is however nothing to do with the hegemony that the Israeli state holds by rein of terror over the Palestinians
    *
    Except that the Israeli State actions deny the opprobrium of the general population being brought down on the ISIS successors
    *
    Who will listen to Welby or the Pope with Palestine going on
    *
    Thank the Lord for Obamas overnight actions. If Blair were back we would be in there protecting the Christians in the North of Iraq

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      this article has only just appeared yet you posted 22 minutes ago…curious.

      • telemachus

        Heads up from inside

        • Holly

          Heads up your ‘dark place’ is the usual position for lefties.

          • telemachus

            Not a left right issue
            An issue of human endeavour and right

          • trotters1957

            cretin

      • Andy

        The Fascists never sleep.

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