Coffee House

Labour and the ‘Tory lie machine’

6 August 2014

9:15 AM

6 August 2014

9:15 AM

Sajid Javid is giving a speech today that doesn’t seem to have a great deal to do with his brief as Culture Secretary. He’s also a pretty good Tory attack dog, and his address to the Centre for Policy Studies will focus on Labour’s ‘basic instinct’ to spend and a warning that this instinct would leave Britain £500bn worse off.

It’s not so much the speech itself from the Culture Secretary that’s interesting, but the reaction from the Labour Party. Chris Leslie has said:

‘These numbers have been totally made up. Labour has not set out any plans for extra capital spending after the election, so this is just another example of the Tory lie machine in action.’

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Leslie then criticises the Coalition’s ability to stick to its own fiscal rules, and repeats Labour’s own commitments. He is of course executing a sleight of hand while accusing the Conservatives of operating a ‘lie machine’: saying ‘Labour has not set any out any plans for extra capital spending’ is not the same as saying ‘we can now definitively rule out extra capital spending’. That’s because the Labour line is that it will not borrow a penny more for day-to-day spending, which sounds disciplined until you realise that this is simply ruling out borrowing for revenue spending and leaving a capital spending spree open.

Anyway, these Labour tricks have been running for a while. But what’s new is that the party now wants to talk about Tory lying a lot. They talked about Tory lying when David Cameron attacked Harriet Harman over middle class people paying more tax. Yet again, this is the Opposition trying to use pot shots at their weak spot as an opportunity to talk about the Tories’ honesty. They think decency and sincerity are an area where they, and particularly their leader, can trump David Cameron’s party. And so we’ll hear a lot more about that ‘Tory lie machine’ in the next few months.


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Show comments
  • Mukkinese

    Capital investment brings a return, often a profit. Isn’t that central to capitalism?

    So you are actually complaining that Labour might make money to help pay down the debt?

  • Archibald Heatherington

    This isn’t a case of the pot calling the kettle black so much as the Steinway grand calling the albino polar bear black.

  • http://www.CaerphillyPreserves.co.uk/ No Good Boyo

    Coming from the party of Tony Blair, Alasdair Campbell, the sexed-up dossier and elevating spin into an art form, this strikes me as a really bad idea. It’ll remind everybody that MiliBalls are hardly snow-white virgins themselves when it comes to deception.

    “Vote Labour, because you can’t trust a Tory,” Everybody listen for the sound of an entire country reverberating with hollow laughter. Expenses claims, anybody?

  • Holly

    Labour bods and that same old,same old, POLAR OPPOSITE trick again eh?
    How novel.

  • Smithersjones2013

    They think decency and sincerity are an area where they, and
    particularly their leader, can trump David Cameron’s party. And so we’ll
    hear a lot more about that ‘Tory lie machine’ in the next few months.

    ROFLMAO! The Blair and Brown governments were the most rotten corrupt disgraces this country has had to bear in many many decades and Miliband the Misfit was an increasingly integral part of it!

    Labour ~ Lying Since 1994 (we’ll get to the lies Wilson told another day)!

    PS And as for decency, the union puppet, Mr Ed even stabbed his own brother in the back!

  • Mukkinese

    “They think decency and sincerity are an area where they, and particularly their leader, can trump David Cameron’s party.”

    Well they are right aren’t they?

    Look at the polls, whenever the question is asked, voters trust Labour to be fairer and more compassionate than the Tories. Facts are facts…

    • Colonel Mustard

      Provide the specific evidence for these polls please.

    • Inverted Meniscus

      That would be the same Fascist scum that tried to destroy this country between 1997 and 2010 would it lad? To suggest the Labour Party is honest is just ridiculous.

    • saffrin

      Did you notice the Tories have got themselves a Paki for a culture minister?
      I mean, since when did being called to prayer five times a day, raping your wife and killing your kids become part of British culture?

      • GraveDave

        Yes, let’s be honest, if the Tories were the Tories of old, the Tories all the hardliners get all nostalgic over, there would be no equal rights for ‘Pakis’, or blacks, no gay rights, and women fit only for the kitchen and babies, people working for ten bob an hour, the poor living in slums and work houses, The unions outlawed and strikes broken by force… etc…etc…etc…. Now you can understand why it’s taking so long for ‘Call me’ to try and rid himself of the Toxic brand.

        If you cant beat ’em join ’em.

      • Liz

        Raping your wife was part of British culture until 1991 when it was made illegal.

        • maxime1793

          You’re batshit insane.

  • jimmy

    ordinary people cant see through the lies because the press and media streams that fill their lives are full of it

  • Peter Stroud

    Every Labour government since 1945 has left the country near bankruptcy. Why should Miliband’s government be any different? The Labour Party comprises too many ex trade unionists, political advisors, ex civil servants and ex local government politicians. No where near enough members from business and trade.

    • sarahsmith232

      ‘I do not believe the intellectual elements in the Labour party will ever exercise adequate control; too much will always be decided by those who do not know AT ALL what they are talking about; and if – which is not unlikely – the control of the party is seized by an autocratic inner ring, this control will be exercised in the interests of the extreme left wing – the section of the Labour Party which I shall designate the party of catastrophe.’.
      Which leading voice do you think wrote that? Labour has often used his policy positions as a prop over the last few years, he’s become something of Left-wing, social democrat folk hero for them?
      Listen to this – it was Keynes. A quote from ‘Am I a Liberal?’ written in – GET THIS!!!! – 1925!!!!!! Really come on a lot since but, haven’t they!

      • sarahsmith232

        Actually, I should have added, – Len McClusky – shouldn’t they all recognise something of themselves in their favourite economists hero view.

  • Bert

    Are McBride, Whealon, Mandy And Alicam back in the pre-election circle of trust?
    Labours smear and lying attack appears to be ramping up again.

  • MalcolmRedfellow

    Fair do’s — and even if the sauce goes gander and goose — it really is getting nasty out there. And trivial.

    Has anyone sorted Wreath-gate? Were the crude (deliberately so?) labels on the wreaths handed to Clegg and Miliband, at the last possible moment, enemy action?

    • HookesLaw

      Or perhaps Cameron was the only one with the care to ask for a blank note.

      I don’t call 500 billion trivial.

      • saffrin

        Was the the bung Cameron made for murdering two naval crews?

  • 2trueblue

    Liebore, who spent 13yrs with BBCs assistance to lie every day to the nation. They then exited power after 13yrs and left the UK in an appalling state. During those get great reforms they promised in our society> Well, child poverty grew in a so called time of plenty, teenage pregnancy grew at an unprecedanted rate. youth unemployment grew, immigration grew at an unsustainable rate, and they broke the bank. They also presided over the most corrupt parliament in our time. MPs had difficulty deciding where their main residence was in their greed to stuff the electorate and the taxman in their greed to fill their boots with our money.
    We need no lessons from Liebore on anything.

    We need to be mindful of what they did, their words are cheap and we need to get OUR BBC back.

    • Makroon

      And it’s not as if their lying has diminished with their exit from government.
      Their whole “project” is to convince the voters that the infamous “13 years” didn’t happen and was anyway, nothing to do with the present leadership.

      • HookesLaw

        So why do the dim nutjobs want to let them back in then?

        • DWWolds

          Because they bought so many votes with the welfare their hand-outs.

    • GraveDave

      Yes, it’s outrageous. Why cant they lie for the Tory lie machine equally. What on earth are we paying our TV licence fees for.

      • Colonel Mustard

        I think you have missed the point…

        • GraveDave

          The point is if the BBC had a pro Tory bias, it would be okay to lie. Propaganda is propaganda. They all do it.

    • Mukkinese

      The only independent assessment of BBC political bias states that it is consistently biased to the right of centre, regardless of which party is in power.

      Deny the facts, but that will not change them to those that you wish were true…

      • Colonel Mustard

        What a joke. If you are referring to the Prebble report then Newswatch unearthed ties between Stuart Prebble and the BBC, between the BBC and the university department which conducted the supposedly impartial research, and between the university’s project director and the EU. The independence of the project was thus severely compromised. There is more, quite shocking really.

        http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/impartialityatthebbc.pdf

  • HookesLaw

    What on Earth has who is making the speech got to do with anything? The big question you might ask is why more tories are not making endless repetitive speeches on this or wome other attack on Labour. But no too many dumb thick tory backbenchers and their apologists and promoters care only enough to attack their own party.

    • 2trueblue

      Well you might ask. The BBC are very picky about who they let on OUR tv. Why do you think the propoganda machine for Liebore is so efficient?

  • david trant

    My dream, (sadly not one that will be realised) would be for fornicator, adulterer, a man sacked for lying about his relationship with Petronella Wyatt and her abortion, (both late of this Parish) Boris Johnson to become leader of the Tory Party. In the Red Corner Dan Jarvis MP ex-Para/SAS type with an exceptional military record who left the army to nurse his wife who was suffering from terminal cancer and to bring up their two sons, (not a CV a film script) to be leader of the Labour Party. Watching the Tories trying to rubbish the character of Jarvis whilst extolling Boris would be a joy to experience.

    As for the Tories being liars who can ever forget their promises never to raise VAT during election campaigns, followed with a sharp rise once safely elected.

    • HookesLaw

      what a pathetic rant

      Read what the Telegraph said in 2010 (or better still read the facts for yourself before spouting off … ”The manifesto does not rule out increases in Vat, income tax or National
      Insurance and fails to spell out the full detail of Tory plans for public
      spending. The document makes few firm pledges on tax – other than the
      promise not to increase National Insurance for lower paid workers next year.

      So who is lying now?

      In case you have forgotten we have a coalition and the libdems promised a ratio of spending cuts to tax increases of. 2.5 to 1as part of cutting the deficit.

      • Makroon

        Ha-ha, ‘David Trant’ has so much belief in his party that he wants Red ‘n Balls jettisoned and substituted by some military hero as a figure-head.

        • david trant

          I don’t have a party, if I did have one it certainly wouldn’t be the Tories, although I’m not inspired by anyone. However at the moment the military hero type would have enormous appeal, don’t you think?

      • david trant

        We have absolutely no plans to raise VAT. Our first Budget is all about
        recognising we need to get spending under control rather than putting up
        tax.

        David Cameron election campaign 2010

    • Inverted Meniscus

      Weighed against the avalanche of lies, spite and dishonesty endured between 1997 and 2010 the Tories are just beginners laddie.

      • david trant

        they’ll improve.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          No lad the Fascist Labour Party just tell more and more lies. Their economic philosophy, such ad it is, is doomed to failure and so they lie, lie and lie again until, like in 2010′ reality exposes those lies. Fascist Labour is the party of lies, lying and liars.

  • David B

    I remember this was one of Brown’s golden rules. He then defined everything from employing managers in the NHS to MP’s expenses as investment and borrowed recklessly,

    And who was at his side when he did this, Balls and Miliband. Therefore read “borrowing for investment and capital projects” as borrow for everything.

    • sarahsmith232

      Was intending to make that point as well. They believe their get clause is the – ‘we always said we’d not rule out spending to ‘invest”. Well, just about anything going can be described as an investment – borrowing, taxing and spending on welfare can be described by a Left-winger as an investment. That’s how they’re intending to brush off the liar tag come June 2015.

      • Mr Creosote

        “investments” can go down as well as up, but Labour investments only ever go one way.

        • Holly

          On and on and on.
          For generations.

    • Donafugata

      Exactly and PFI was the biggest cook up the books ever had, beyond mendacious.

  • swatnan

    Bozo is also giving a speech today. Sarjid should be attacking Bozo not Labour because exit from the EU would be catastrophic, for the Arts Culture and Tourism and Sport

    • sarahsmith232

      The BME bean counter is more than able to destroy it himself – have you not read about his ‘3 Ticks’ policy? Labour went down the same path with encouraging greater levels of BME participation in the arts via their funding structures. What should be noted though is that that is ALL Labour did, they just encouraged. They didn’t outright ban funding if there were no BME characters of creatives involved in a project.
      The BME bean counter has out Laboured the Labour party by outright banning solely white creatives from accessing funding. This shows that he’s another Warsi and Abbott, their only interest is in representing their own, if that comes at the expensive of greater society as a whole then that is really not an outcome that is of any particular interest to them.
      The bean counter can’t be expected to understand that this mindset is a product of Labour party conditioning in itself. He can understand numbers, the way that stack up on a spread sheet, if it gets any deeper then the bean counter can’t be expected to really have a whole lot occur to him. Just about the very last thing that should ever have been left in charge of arts funding.

      • HookesLaw

        ‘BME’ — well done for exposing your self as a low life.

        • sarahsmith232

          Honey, you’re a simpleton. It’s all so really very simple for you – if a person attacks a politician due to their ethnicity then this can only be understood in really very simple terms – they are a racist.
          Well, luvie, actually, there’s a little bit more to consider.
          What does his ‘3 Ticks’ policy reveal? Your response shows that you’re of the thinking that any opposers can only be racists. Utter, beyond utter, absolute and at the extreme end of, claptrap.
          His policy is unjustifiable. It will damage our creative industries. This isn’t a debatable point of view, it’s a fact. Something which I should imagine even he could have managed to work out.
          So why has he weighed the issues and come down on the side it being far more ‘important’ (on Andrew Marr this is the word he used to justify his policy) that the BME populations interests are furthered at the expense of white creatives and the creative industries as a whole? You believe his ethnicity would have played no part in this thinking?
          Well, i’m going to be brutal – get ****ing real dearie. OBVIOUSLY his ethnicity is the explanation. So, when a politician shows themselves to be a person that has entered parliament not represent greater society as whole but to only represent their ‘own’ then that is due to their being a BME politician. Their ethnicity is an integral and over-riding part of their identity. He is that, his unjustifiable ‘3 Ticks’ policy proves that, he forfeits the right to be understood as a British politician, he’s a BME one. That certainly should not be allowed anywhere near a leadership position in the Tory party.

          • swatnan

            I’m trying to make out what your saying but with diffiuculty.
            The fact is Labour, and even the Tories, should be not only encouraging greater inclusivity in Arts Culture and Sports from all the strands of diversity but also looking at an organisation’s Equalities Policy, and base their funding on their past actions. So, if they haven’t done much to say include ethnic participation in say just for the sake of argument Rambling or Opera and Ballet, then their funding should be turned down. It has to be said that The Ramblers and Ballet and Music Companies have made great strides in encouraging greater participation. BoZo is 1/4 Turkish and IDS is 1/4 Japanese, and Ed Milliband 100% Jewish; neither should have been allowed near the Leadership, because they’re simply not up to it, not on their Etnicity.

            • sarahsmith232

              Could I ask somebody else to explain to me whether I’ve explained myself well, or badly, or whether it’s just that this person swatnan isn’t able to understand what I would have thought was a simple equation.
              Ok, so, swatnan. So, politicians decide policy based on their desired for set of outcomes. They have to weigh up all of the different factors, like for e.g – a mansion tax would be damaging not only for the people that have to cough up but also for greater society as a whole because this would damage aspiration. But we believe that an unequal society is even more damaging so our preferred egalitarian outcome means that knowingly and deliberately damaging affluence and aspiration is an acceptable policy aim.
              Note the ‘knowingly and deliberately damaging’ part. Politicians have to weigh up who to **** over via the tax system, who to then redistribute this ‘wealth’ towards and who and what it is they hope will be the beneficiary of via the bringing about of their desired outcomes.
              This Javid knowingly and deliberately has implemented policy that will damage white creatives and the creative industry as a whole. His end point desired for outcome is that there be PC, victim BME characters is absolutely every British movie funded. He has thought all the issues through and has managed to convince himself that this is a preferred outcome.
              A Culture Sec’ implements policy that he knows will be damaging to the creative industries for no greater justifiable reason than it being of benefit to the BME population should not be in the position he’s in. And this bean counter has managed to convince himself that he’s a Thatcherite Tory, as well. You would need to be a superificial bean counter, air head to have managed to tally the 2.

              • swatnan

                I may be thick, but I’m still struggling with this.
                How can he be stiffling ‘white creativity’ when the whole point is for inclusivity? We keep making the ‘business case’ for inclusivity, and there is one; so if something only favours one group over others, eg white ethnics, and is not inclusive, then it can’t be right. Art is about the interaction between individuals and groups and changing perceptions, and looking at things with a different perspective.

                • sarahsmith232

                  Right ok, so – he’s stifling white creativity by blocking access to funding. If a white only team of creatives apply for funding then under his ‘3 Ticks’ policy they will be denied it due to their ethnicity. Ok, so, surely you can understand that?
                  You write – ‘if something only favours one group over others, eg white ethnics, and is not inclusive, then it can’t be right’.
                  But that isn’t what funding favoured. It didn’t favour any particular ethnic group, it favoured talent. Be that of the white or any other ethnic variety. That is the only criteria funding should be based on.
                  White people make up the majority of the population, that means that it’s statistical fact that the majority of creatives are white. This ‘3 Ticks’ policy can’t, statistically, not damage them. They are not in a position to chose to alter their ethnic group, so will be blocked because of it. Outcome – overall damage to the creative industries as a whole, especially white creatives.
                  The bean counter believes he gives white creatives a way out – if the include BME characters then they can still access funding. If he had even just something so much as in the region of an understanding of how and why a creative IS a creative then he would understand that white creatives can’t merely create BME characters so that they can tick enough ****ing PC b****y tick boxes. This isn’t a choice, it quite simply isn’t a possibility. The creative mind doesn’t operate like a ****ing superficial, adding up machine, bankers. This he can’t get.
                  To be fair to the BME bean counter, that at least gives him a bit of an excuse – he’s far too superficial an air head banker to be expected to understand any of this.

  • saffrin

    Sajid Javid; Culture Secretary.
    Tells us all we need to know about LibLabCon.

    • realfish

      Meaning?

      • saffrin

        They are as one.
        LibLabCon means more of the same.

        • Donafugata

          Similar to energy suppliers, supermarkets and banks pushing the illusion of choice as choice itself.

          Same dogs, different gravy, that’s all.

      • HookesLaw

        I suspect if you read the ‘BME’ dog whisle above you will get the message,
        It beggars belief that the Spectator allows such low lifes to use their pages – but then again perhaps not. Mr Nelson clearly has no shame.

        • global city

          People can see right through your smears, especially on this site.

        • Adam Carter

          I can’t hear a dog whistle.
          Why don’t you spell it out?
          Because you can’t.

        • saffrin

          Quisling

        • saffrin

          For a shirt lifter, you sure do complain a lot.

  • Mr Creosote

    Voting Labour?……..the triumph of hope over experience.

    • Foxy Loxy

      As is voting Tory.

      • Mr Creosote

        touche – the Kipper’s time has come!

  • JoeDM

    Well, well, well. Who would have thought it?

    Politicians lying. Whatever next !!!!!

    • Kennie

      Q: How can you tell if a politician is lying?
      A: His/her lips are moving.

      • Holly

        Q.How can you tell a politicians lying?
        A.Unlike humans, they’re stood up.

  • Colonel Mustard

    “They think decency and sincerity are an area where they, and particularly their leader, can trump David Cameron’s party.”

    Bwahahaha! That’s a good ‘un, tell us another one do.

    • Foxy Loxy

      In the decency and sincerity stakes, both Tories and Labour lose.

      • sarahsmith232

        LOL, good one.

        • HookesLaw

          ‘LOL’ – makes a change from ‘BME’. Yes thats a real good one.

          • sarahsmith232

            I note you have conceded defeat. Realise now that your post was based on led by the nose, Left-wing brainwashing?
            You’ve not bothered to reply to my post further down, the one which included your original accusation, ’cause you can’t. You know you were in the wrong.
            I’ll take your running as an apology then, you know, just ’cause the Guardian and the BBC tells you something is an example of racism really doesn’t mean that it is so, you know.
            Enjoy your day dear, and do try and not allow yourself to be made so small minded in future dearie.

      • Makroon

        What a bunch of attention seekers you lot are.
        You just can’t bear any topic which doesn’t talk about you, can you ?

        • HookesLaw

          Plus Farage’s basic stance is built on a big lie. He is now reduced to allowing his anti EU campaign to be used for blunt xenophobia and overt racism.

          • global city

            The danger of the immigration focus is that it allows tribal idiots to make the claim that you just have. Ordinary people will see through this.

            My fear is that people will just tire of the migration mantra as everybody really understands that issue. UKIP should move on to the democratic and constitutional issues that idiots have successfully avoided for four decades.

            Avoidance is your tactic on the EU issue, Hooky, and shows why UKIP should focus on that.

          • Adam Carter

            Can you please provide quotes from Mr. Farage, any UKIP official spokesman or the UKIP website?
            Something like. ‘Kick out the darkies’ would show you have a strong case for what you have said.
            Good luck with that.

          • Smithersjones2013

            No Hooky only in your deranged tin foil hat wearing world is that the case. Its all a delusion that you have created in your own mind to compensate for the distress you feel over the knowledge that your beloved Dave is heading for humiliation at the ballot box. Given his previous humiliation in Tory heartlands at the hands of UKIP such transference whilst outlandish is understandable but you should try and control yourself or risk making yourself a pariah..

            And now of course Boris is beginning the final chapter of Dave’s demise circling like an out of shape vulture ready to swoop down and peck at the bones of the defeated Cameron after the general election. Have you people to give you support in your grief in what will be desperate times for you?

        • realfish

          You should see the Telegraph site where the ‘Kippers hijack every single story within one or two posts (mind you I’ve not checked out the comments on the sports pages).

          • Ooh!MePurse!

            And attempt to close down any discussion with vile personal attacks.

      • Colonel Mustard

        But the story is about how Labour (and their advocates) see themselves and how far that is from the reality of what they always inflict on us. Their sanctimony and hubris make them ghastly people and I always feel uncomfortable in their presence (© Patrick Stewart).

        Cameron’s regime is simply inept.

    • Inverted Meniscus

      Absolutely. Labour the party of lies, lying and liars claiming to be honest. Hilarious.

      • telemachus

        You trumpet the narrative

        Labour the party of lies, lying and liars

        Try

        Caring and reasonableness

        • Inverted Meniscus

          Sorry that should read filthy lies, filthy lying and disgusting filthy liars. That is the Fascist Scum a Labour Party. Utter filth all of them.

          • telemachus

            The thread was about the Tory lie machine

            • Smithersjones2013

              Well it seems to have turned into one about Labour hypocrisy and dishonesty and I must say you gave it a healthy shove in that direction with your ‘narrative’ post

            • Inverted Meniscus

              Yes but the Fascist Scum of the Labour Party, liars all, set the benchmark for lying in office as the filthy scum who tried to destroy this country between 1997 and 2010 proved. Labour= lying fascist scum.

            • Fergus Pickering

              This thread is about what we say it is about, old son.

            • Kitty MLB

              As others have sageously said the thread is what we say it is old wasp! and not what Labour
              dictates.

              • Ooh!MePurse!

                As an aside, hello Kitty, did you have a splendid holiday?

                • Kitty MLB

                  Oh yes thank you. It was delightful. Away from the modern world, just the sound of birds and sitting beneath the stars-
                  heavens poetry. When in a mountainous area its so peaceful
                  you forget how noisy and complicated the world is. Just a lot of walking and reading. And now I return to this chaotic place.

                • Ooh!MePurse!

                  Good for you. I’ve had a new hip thing put in!

        • Kennie

          Yes, some Labourites think it is reasonable to care just for paedos, immigrants and postal votes.

        • Smithersjones2013

          We’ll keep the red rag flying high
          No time for facts let’s falsify
          The truth be gone, honesty’s demise.
          You cannot surpass Labour lies

          Coz Labour lies,
          Yes Labour lies
          Oh how it liesIit always iies
          We’ll keep the red rag flying high
          Coz just like crap it attracts the flies

        • Kitty MLB

          ” Caring and reasonable” tell that to a lady in my village who
          lost her only son in the Iraq war. She can see what is happening in the Middle East today and asks why did he sacrifice his life.

    • dado_trunking

      I have another good one:
      LibDems 2010 23% of the vote – 8% of the seats.
      Ukip 2015 12% of the vote (half that) – 0.5% of the seats.

      That’s how British democrackery works.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Not a problem for a Brussels based EU sponsored gibberish spouting sockpuppet like yourself so why don’t you just clear off. Oh, and take the goat with you.

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