Coffee House

If the Tories can’t keep Carswell in the fold, they are in serious trouble

28 August 2014

2:30 PM

28 August 2014

2:30 PM

Douglas Carswell’s defection to Ukip is a serious blow to the Tory party. Unlike so many other defectors, Carswell is not off because he has an axe to grind. This isn’t about his personal prospects but policy.

What makes this defection all the more potent is that Carswell has been a major influence on contemporary Toryism. His Direct Democracy agenda is one of the more sizable parts of the whole Tory modernisation project and his Euroscepticism isn’t driven by some Pathé news view of Britain but by a view of how this country can succeed as a modern, free-trading nation. Indeed, the section in Carswell’s speech celebrating contemporary Britain is very Cameroon.

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So, a Tory party that can’t keep Carswell in the fold has a serious problem. What compounds this for the Tories is that Carswell isn’t just defecting, he’s standing down to fight a by-election. This contest will highlight the divisions on the right and it’ll also likely result in Ukip’ first elected MP. Carswell is popular locally and the Tendring peninsula is a Ukip stronghold: in the Euros the party polled almost twice as many votes as the Tories.

If Carswell is returned to parliament as a Ukip MP, he’ll give the party a foothold in Westminster and the ability to stay in the news. He’ll also be a constant reminder of how divided the Tories are on Europe.

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Show comments
  • paul

    The Tories are truly Revolting to their nasty ideological core !!

  • artemis in france

    If this can hasten the withdrawal of Britain from the EU, good. The sooner the whole édifice collapsus, the sooner European sovereign states can begin to rebuild their crumbling économies. I’d like to think that within twenty years, their will no longer be a “government” in Brussels dictating what the rest of us do. It’ll just be a question of how long Germany is willing to foot the bill – alone.

    • Mike

      If a major net contributor like Britain leaves, I’m sure it will shake things up as many other countries in the EU will be re-assessing their contributions or hand outs.

      Those Northern EU countries like Germany, Netherlands etc who would contribute most will be wondering why should we make up the shortfall and those like Spain in receipt of hand outs will be worrying that the gravy train might stop. Added to this issue is the growing problems of Islamofascism thats taken over parts of Sweden (Malmo) and France (Paris & Marseille) with the police no go areas.

      The EU project will disintegrate and its not if but when.

  • careering_off

    Forgive me, but I don’t see what’s principled in action which is most likely to lead to the opposite of what you stand for, ie in this case a Labour government and no referendum. To argue that his move is part of a long-term Eurosceptic strategy is a bit like supporting ISIS in the hope that the establishment of a caliphate will somehow one day lead to the renaissance of Christianity. You can broadly agree with Carswell’s views about Europe and still think he’s got this badly wrong. Surely it’s the context that decides whether a particular action is principled or self-indulgent?

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …and the context is that the socialist LibLabCon clones are all rabid EUSSRphiles.

  • Bonkim

    He will lose.

  • Mike

    Cameron only got to form a government because (a) Ukip weren’t a
    force to be reckoned with back then and Tory voters only had 3 choices
    with the least worst option being vote Tory & (b) Cameron did an unsavory
    pact with Clegg.

    Now there is a serious alternative which in a sense Clegg (thankfully) enabled by having those debates withFarage. Not only did the electorate see through all the lies, spin and obfuscation that Clegg spouted, but the mere fact Cameron &
    Miliband refused to debate, it damned them just as much as Clegg. Mass immigration, all the social issues and the poisoning of our culture have
    all contributed to this defection and the rise of Ukip.

    If it had been Thatcher in charge instead of Cameron, I’m sure she would have
    risked a debate in these circumstances as she would have known that
    saying nothing was not an option but being a strong speaker, having
    conviction and strength she would have held up well against Farage and
    blunted some of his points. All those qualities Thatcher had, Cameron
    lacks and he probably knew he’d be skewered and filleted by Farage just
    as Clegg was.

    Miliband and Labour are severely tarnished after the report
    about Rotherham let alone at least another 10 towns up
    and down the country. Professor Jays report over political correctness
    trumping child abuse has sent an arrow directly at the heart of Labour
    and the chief architects of PC like Harman & Dromey (those PIE
    supporters) are notable by their silence. The only good thing from those despicable abuses against those poor vulnerable girls is the public has been told
    in plain English what went on, who were the guilty parties without any
    political spin. Those who might have giving PC advocates the benefit of
    the doubt will no longer do so and that must be a good thing.

    What a stark choice for the electorate with LibLab, vote for a party that’s
    renown for its child abusers or one that actively promotes or excuses them !

    All in all its starting to look very positive for Ukip and if more Tory
    MP’s jump ship to Ukip and the electorate vote with well informed
    conviction, we could even see the LibDems utterly destroyed and LibCom
    emasculated to the point of being unable to form a majority government
    in 2015.

    Lets pray that happens if we want to save the UK.

  • Bill Kenny

    ‘It’ll’ really?

  • Lydia Robinson

    My goodness. Carswell is a brave man. Undoubtedly he already knows that the full force of the MSM, including the Spectator, will be upon him and any past misdemeanor such as cheating on his maths exam when he was 11 will be recounted in full by the press.

  • R Fairless

    Douglas Carswell’s action is telling us what we already know. Cameron, the Eton Mess, is a fraud and so is his henchman ‘Bomber” Hague. Whatever they say we know they are committed to the EU. There is plenty of evidence from their many utterings in public and private over a long period to demonstrate their commitment to the EU. Their recent pseudo anti-EU rhetoric is propaganda to try and deceive us poor plebs. But we are not persuaded, merely even more convinced of their duplicity. Mr Carswell will now be the subject of their malice but it will not work. Mr Carswell has demonstrated courage and integrity in switching to UKIP; surely he cannot be the only English patriot: surely there must be more in the Conservative Party ready to jump?

  • Lydia Robinson

    Let the trashing of Carswell begin, including the funny photos where he’s looking deranged with his mouth twisted. It won’t work because voters are just a bit smarter than the LibLabCon and smart arsed journos think we are (including some on the Speccie.)

    • Mike

      They MSM & the Tories probably wont learn anything as the Mail campaigned long and hard trying to trash Ukip with all manner of innuendo and very historic minor character flaws.

      Everyone understands that people aren’t perfect but theres a very big difference between minor indiscretions that are not criminal offenses and criminal behaviour like Cyril Smith (Child Abuse), Perjury (Chris Huhne, Geofffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitken) expenses fraud (LibLabCon) and the sort of quasi criminal acts such as PC trumps child abuse or supporting pedophile groups that we’ve seen from Labour.

      People will remember these and if they might forget, we’ll keep reminding them.

  • gerronwithit

    Just as the whole stinking edifice that is Labour is being shown in its full glory up in Rotherham, while it’s apparatchiks fail to fall anywhere near a sword unless it comes with golden goodbyes and pensions because they to not even recognise their incompetent cronyism, at least Carswell has had the decency to stand down and allow the electorate the opportunity to decide if he is fit for their constituency, which I suggest they will.

  • John Andrews

    Thanks and congratulations to Douglas Carswell. I support UKIP but find many of their positions poorly argued. Carswell is a more profound thinker and gives one a rare excuse for political optimism. Showing that a Tory MP can become a UKIP MP, should the good people of Clacton so decide, will be a welcome blow against Cameron’s argument that ‘only the Conservatives can deliver a referendum’.

    • Mike

      Cameron’s claim that ‘only the Conservatives can deliver a referendum’ is a ridiculous statement to make.

      It should be a simple in/out vote as nothing else is feasible. The EU won’t allow us to cherry pick what we want or don’t want and that is quite a reasonable stance to stake however whilst we’re in the EU they are unreasonable.

      Whoever is in power only has to call a referendum as its not like giving birth to a child that the idiot Cameron seems to think it is.

  • Lady Magdalene

    The Tories have been in trouble every since they knifed the best post-war PM this country has produced.
    It’s just getting near the end game now.

  • Simon Denis

    Carswell has thrown a wobbly, that’s all. It happens to the best of us, but it prompts our worst and most foolish actions. Can his supporters please tell me why it makes sense to try and derail the one party which promises a referendum? Why it is better to have fat-faced Farage and thin faced Carswell making snotty noises at a Red Ed government than to have at least the chance of escaping the Euro maze? Even if all they say of Cameron were true – and I’m by no means a devoted admirer – the plain fact is he offers the one way forward. Everything else is a mixture of tantrums and wishful thinking. Yes, he’s fluffed and muffed his way through managing the Conservative party; yes he’s one of those Tories who looks down his nose at every other Tory; yes, yes, yes. But since there is nothing on offer as an alternative – a serious, electable alternative I mean – why not do the reasonable thing and support him – for now? If he comes mincing back from Brussels with a mess of potage, THEN is the time to throw it in his face, not before. In politics circumstance as Burke said and timing as Bismarck demonstrated is everything. In other words, my poor, dear little Kippers, wake up, grow up and shut up.

    • Lady Magdalene

      Cameron has been instructed to get a mandate for our membership of the EU, before the British people get so disgusted they’ll vote UKIP in their millions to get us out.

      He has no intention of carrying out a meaningful renegotiation or holding a free and fair Referendum. He’s planning another CON, like Wilson did.
      Far better to delay any Referendum until the Tories find themselves a BOO Leader and change policy, or UKIP grows strong enough to replace them.

      We’re not fighting for a Referendum. We’re fighting to get OUT of the EU and get our country back.

      • Simon Denis

        Classic paranoid reasoning. Who has “instructed” him? Common Purpose, I suppose or the Masons. Vote UKIP in their millions? You’ll be lucky. How do you know he’s planning a con? Even if he is, do you have any one who is planning anything better? As for UKIP replacing the Tories, they will merely split the right wing vote and hand dominance to the left at a time when we can ill afford it. So you’re fighting to get out are you? Yes, by banging your heads very hard against the prison wall, whilst some of us are hoping to use a key.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Do you Camerloons think you’re making any progress with that sneering bile, lad?

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Oh, and you’re not a conservative, so no sense you socialist muppets blathering about a “split vote”, lad.

          • HookesLaw

            You are so full of sneering bile its coming out of every orifice.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …except, I’m not trying to make any progress with you socialist nutters, lad. You twits get what you deserve.

        • HookesLaw

          Paranoia is meat and drink to kippers.

      • Lydia Robinson

        “before the British people get so disgusted they’ll vote UKIP in their millions to get us out.”

        We’re already disgusted and it’s going to happen!

    • Alexandrovich

      You’ll still say they’re unelectable when they’ve got fifty seats next year.

      • Simon Denis

        Fifty seats to UKIP? Well that’s minus about a hundred and twenty Tories and Miliband government. Bravo. Farage and his middle aged out of touch cronies can all shout and fart and make variously embarrassing, crass, inaccurate, wine-soaked speeches whilst the country disappears finally down the socialist pan. But perhaps that’s what you are looking for.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          You socialist Camerluvvies are already disappearing it down the socialist pan, lad.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Carswell is all but calling your boy Dave a liar, lad. It may be time for you to accept that he is a liar, given that seeming indictment.

      But as it appears you prefer to sneer in your sleep, a trick that you Camerloons seem to have perfected, we’ll just have to move along to next May, when Dave’s head gets mounted on a spike. Perhaps that will wake you up .

    • Mike

      Promising is easy, following through on your promises when its just rhetoric is harder. Cameron isn’t serious about a referendum and most in the country know it.

  • AndyB

    I’m an admirer of Mr Carswell also. He will have given this an an enormous amount of thought, and he is no small intellect. I suspect nothing much has changed and we should observe Mr Carwell’s movements as much as we did before. As you were. Move along.

  • Chris

    Well I’m voting UKIP at the GE, anybody joining me?

    • http://batman-news.com The Commentator

      Yes, most of the Tory vote and no small part of the Labour vote.

  • Michael Ray

    Immigration Figures.(The ones we know about) Rotherham (tip of the iceberg) EU re-negotiation (must be taking place in secret). Islamic State .Call Me Dave is on top of things and playing a blinder. All they can say is don’t vote UKIP you’ll get Labour.It’s too late Dave you’re gone already and you’ve been a disaster.

  • kyalami

    Other than his UKIPism, Carswell is my kind of MP. I’d feel torn on how to vote if I lived in his constituency.

    • Ludo

      Then presumably you don’t know him as well as you think you do. He seems to think that UKIP is the best fit for his beliefs.

      • saffrin

        Maybe he’s seen the light.
        Today, UKIP govern the political agenda, nine months from now, UKIP will govern the country.

  • Symbiosis

    An EU head banger’s head has exploded.

  • Ludo

    Well done to both men. The demise of the Tories and their gang rape politics is long overdue.

    • girondas2

      “The demise of the Tories and their gang rape politics is long overdue”.

      A singularly unfortunate turn of phrase

      • Ludo

        No, I literally mean that Tories encourage the gang rape of thousands of white, Northern children. “Expendables” as Tory scum MPs would likely think of them.

        • GUBU

          Are you drunk? Either that, or you’re a congenital idiot – it’s ‘literally’ that hard to tell.

        • trotters1957

          They weren’t white.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Do stop lying.

            “5.5 In this part of the report, we have not specified the ethnicity of the victims or the perpetrators. In a large number of the historic cases in particular, most of the victims in the cases we sampled were white British children, and the majority of the perpetrators were from minority ethnic communities. They were described generically in the files as ‘Asian males’ without precise reference being made to their ethnicity.”

            Page 35 of the Report:-

            http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/1407/independent_inquiry_cse_in_rotherham

        • girondas2

          Apologies – I misread your comment

        • HookesLaw

          What a lying disgusting piece of shyte you are. Happy to stand the truth on its head when all these incidents took place under labour political control.
          If you are an example of a typical kipper brainbox then gawd help the lot of you.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …how’s Dave doing at the beach, lad?

          • Mike

            Not quite encouraged, I’ll give you that but they looked the other way whilst it was happening.

            How do you judge who is the most evil, is it the men that carried out gang rape of thousands of underage vulnerable white girls, is those who knew it was happening as in social services, the police and CPS or is it those that suspected (politicians) but didn’t want to get involved for fear of losing votes if called a racist.

            Just as children need boundaries unless you want them to turn into feral animals, ethnic minorities who have a background from barbaric cultures need UK social boundaries to integrate and obey the laws of the land.

            Clearly we never set any boundaries, we never implemented any boundaries and the establishment made political correctness the new laws of the land and rape of minors a non crime.

      • Mike

        In truth LibLabCon are all responsible for PC trumping gang rape criminal acts. Labour for mass immigration & PC ideology, LibDems for trying to out do Labour and the Tories for ignoring the problem.

  • Agrippina

    At last some sense, well done Mr Carswell. We all know that if cammy is serious about our country and the long term view, we have to exit the EU. He could have made life easier for himself by vetoing Albania, Bosnia, Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia & Turkey joining and then renegotiated. He has no trump card (having said he wants to stay in) and the EU will say no to him. They are getting shot of the jetsam & flotsam of their lands and are delighted.

    Look at France with whom we are supposed to liaise with over defence issues. They happily send over all the economic migrants they can shove our way, instead of sending them back to faraway land.

    At last voters are beginning to realise that the trio of troughers are dead and we need to vote for UKIP to change our future outcome.

  • Denis_Cooper

    The Tories were in serious trouble even without Carswell departing for UKIP.

    Firstly, the leftish anti-Tory vote is much more united than it was in 2010, with most of the previous support for the LibDems having consolidated on Labour.

    Secondly, because the Tories failed to win an overall majority in 2010 and then some Tory MPs were determined to block any reform of the House of Lords the LibDems were able to retaliate by blocking the boundary changes.

    Thirdly, last and very much least, the rise in support for UKIP has been to marginally to the disadvantage of the Tory party more than that of Labour.

    Even if UKIP were to completely disappear from the political scene the net benefit to the Tories vis-à-vis Labour, maybe 2%, would be nowhere enough to overcome the first two factors.

    • dado_trunking

      We knew it all along, did we not. The Tories are in trouble, the vote on the right is split. What that means in the current FPTP setup will only sink in with the plebs after the next vote.

      • saffrin

        The pro-EU vote is split three ways. Out are united behind UKIP.
        Those seeking British justice for the 1,400 raped and abused white children of Rotherham are voting UKIP too, or at least should be if Labour’s placemen/wimin are ever to be prosecuted before the law.

        • dado_trunking

          Very good! We are finally getting to the bottom of it.
          It must be Ukip week.
          1- Carswell defecting
          2- Rotherham, a split Labour/Ukip constituency is bound to turn to Ukip in 2015
          3- what next?

          • Alexsandr

            I think the beheading of a US citizen by a ‘british’ terrorist could affect Labours vote. People realise they were the architect of the PC milti culti pro immigration mess we are in, and ‘british’ jihadis are a symptom of that.. Thats your no 3, DT

            • dado_trunking

              I am not sure about that, and I must admit your point is too broad for me.
              Multi-culturalism works in many places in Britain, it appears to fail in deprived areas just like many other things fail in deprived areas: employment figures, level of qualifications, underlying wealth and income structures, school attendance and so on.
              You cannot turn back the clock, those who are here are here and there will be more. Britain will remain a net-migration nation for the foreseeable future – if it was not so, then Thatcherite years of massive population losses in select areas would return. I believe we all agree that no one in their right (economic) mind would want to see that happen ever again.

              • saffrin

                The only good thing to come out of multiculturalism is the take-aways.

                • dado_trunking

                  Oh please, are there no grown-ups left on this blog?
                  The editor of this publication, the chap who runs the UK Independently-minded Pensioners Party UKIPP, even Andrew Neil himself, have all let multi-culturalism into their own homes. Are you all jealous or sumat?

                • saffrin

                  OK, so apart from the take-aways and the washing powder Lidl sell, what has multiculturalism ever done for us?

                • Kitty MLB

                  Well may I say interesting foods from foreign countries. Although I am not one for Halal or Kosher food myself. Multiculturalism is fine when you have a say on whom lives here and the amount of people. It would be odd if we were all the same. But I am not defending the magnitude of Muslims who live here. I’d send the majority away if I had the choice.

                • Lidlscanner

                  I will come back to you on that one if I may.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You are confusing multi-racial (or multi-ethnic) with multi-cultural. The former is an evolutionary reality existing within a state of tolerance, the latter is an artificially created and divisive policy, an imposition, that undermines social cohesion.

                  You sneer at the lack of grown-ups here but do you really believe a curry house on the high street, a mixed marriage and Rotherham council’s brand of multi-culturalism represent the same thing?

                • dado_trunking

                  I am fully aware that some wish to draw up dividing lines between all of these phrases. To move away swiftly from the juvenile levels of what could or could not constitute both, almost every part of our daily lives is affected by multi-culturalism – the alarm clock rings (a British invention?), you get ready for work following international standards of multi-cultural hygiene, take a multi-cultural breakfast, take a multi-cultural means of transport to and from work, deal with multi-cultural clients on multi-cultural projects, and when you get home, you engage in multi-cultural activities in your spare time, be it shopping in a American style multi-cultural superstore, watching an Italian opera or enjoying life in a Japanese Karaoke bar, I don’t know.
                  How on earth could you avoid/ dislike/ reject multi-culturalism per se? It just doesn’t make any (common) sense at all.

                • saffrin

                  You’d never sell a second hand car if that’s all you can come up with.
                  Ok so 60yrs of multiculturalism has brought us American Hamburgers, how long will it take before multiculturalism makes beating the wife in a multicultural way and killing your own disobedient children becomes the norm in multicultural England?
                  As we have seen in both Rotherham and Oxford, multiculturalism has brought us the repeated rape of white underage girls isn’t anything worth rocking the boat over in some areas.

                • dado_trunking

                  Why are you so thick? We accept everything that is of value to us, that multi-culturalism, we reject everything that does not conform with our moral background and ethical values.
                  What is there not to understand? Do you suffer from a severe form of semantics deficiency? Multi-culturalism is not what you make it up to be. Stop making things up!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You socialist nutters force others what to accept, laddie.

                  You force them to accept what you nutters want.

                  It’s what you fascists always do.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Heck, you and your sockpuppets were freaking out yesterday because one of your favored cultural groupings seems to enjoy forming criminal gangs and turning innocents into child s e x slaves, and that criminal perversion is now being exposed, which you multi culti nutters can’t abide .

                  You fascists can never abide that which you disagree with, and you merely count the days until the camps are opened, and dissenters can be properly dealt with.

                • dado_trunking

                  You dumb, thick pensioner. YOUR council failed. YOU did not implement YOUR laws nor did YOU care. YOU failed.

                  I had to tell you that. Only I did, no one else did.
                  Now it’s on the news …

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  It is your multi culti fascist council, laddie.

                  It is the council you socialist nutters want for all, lad, a council that persecutes legitimate political parties, threatens the citizenry retributively and enables child s e x slavers.

                  And so then, you are the child s e x slaver, lad, you and the rest of the multi culti fascists.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You are an Anglophobe racist.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  “Multi-culturalism is not what you make it up to be.”

                  True enough. It is what decades of British government and establishment have made it up to be.

                • dado_trunking

                  How often have we been though this? The Christmas Tree and the Easter Bunny – where do they come from? We accepted it without blinking. We worship a Palestinian revolutionary and burnt down our neighbours churches, here in England and Scotland, because our Church, not Rome, was the right Church. Ridiculous from today’s perspective.

                  Multi-culturalism is what it is – it’s not Romanian or Pakistani culture from the mountains – their culture will only succeed if we decided for whatever reason to *make it our* culture, like the Moorish Dance for example.

                  And may I assert multi-culturalism is most emphatically not a top-down dictated affair only. Not at all. Our music culture which is unique and uniquely successful all around the globe proves it isn’t.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …you multi culti fascists and child s e x slaver pals seem to go through it pretty often, lad.

                  Sadly for all your victims.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You still don’t understand the difference between multi-culturalism as a historical evolution and multi-culturalism as a recent top down policy. Two different things entirely.

                • dado_trunking

                  I am not confusing anything. I explained how foreign culture cannot and will not be accepted if there are conflicts with our belief system. I have furthermore outlined in great detail how foreign culture was indeed accepted many times, on various levels of socio-cultural interaction and varied effect.

                  No one is making you or me ‘be a Muslim’. The opposite is the case. We are free to choose, arguably here more than in any other place on the planet.
                  I have no issue with choice, you appear to.

                • saffrin

                  “We reject everything that does not conform with our moral background and ethical values.”

                  That sounds about right, bury your head in the sand and deny it’s happening. We are in the European Union, we are told we must accept open door immigration from EU member states yet our troubles come from Pakistan specifically.
                  Now seeing as Pakistan is not an EU member state, why are they here? Why is every single one that is here feel the need to ‘import’ a spouse, then his/her dependents?

                  Now you just deny that one.

                • trotters1957

                  They were not white girls, they were asian.
                  I think you may be committing a crime by inciting racial hatred by misrepresentation.
                  Carry on at your peril.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …so you’re putting people in peril, are you?

                • saffrin

                  You are a liar.

                • Kaine

                  Paedophilia didn’t exist in Britain before modern waves of immigration? Cyril Smith? Harvey Procter? Leon Brittan? (Sue me).

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …how about criminal gang child s e x slavers, all enabled by local governments? Got any historical names there, lad?

                • dado_trunking

                  Erhm …. ?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …I see one of them has raised a hand…

                • Conway

                  What the multi-culti enthusiasts appear to be in denial about is that ultimately it will lead to monoculturalism in the caliphate.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  “To move away swiftly from the juvenile levels of what could or could not constitute both”

                  No, let’s not. There is nothing juvenile in those levels and they are not in fact levels at all. Multi-culturalism was/is a policy pursued by the establishment without the consent of the people. And you are still confusing that with global trends in consumerism.

                  Your response is however undoubtedly juvenile, which belies your attempt to sound both superior and patronising. But of course you would try to deflect. We understand that. You are not here to offer anything sensible.

                  “You” this, “you” that, “your” this, “your” that. And the Caught Jester attempts the wisdom of the fool here – and fails spectacularly. Even the muppets that uptick you dare not show their names.

                • dado_trunking

                  You cannot handle the tone of my message, fair deuce.
                  I am not here to appease you. I am interested in the instances when we disagree and certainly am I not deflecting and *always* offer an alternative view.

                  Multiculturalism is not a top down structured affair per se. Of course it is in finance, the military and politics. But it is more often than not so in the most relevant parts of music, the arts, fashion, youth culture, even architecture and so on.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  It’s not a question of “handling” it. One does not “handle” the irritating blare of a klaxon.

                  “Of course it is in finance, the military and politics.”

                  Finally, a glimmer of light enters.

                • Jen The Blue

                  I’m a UKIPer and and I am nowhere near a pensioner. Neither is Douglas Carswell come to think of it.

              • pointlesswasteoftime

                +100

              • Jen The Blue

                Multiculturalism works in a fashion is some parts. It is when it reaches the point that whole swathes of our towns and cities are unrecognisable as British that problems manifest themselves.
                Some cultures and religious ideologies are simply incompatible with western freedoms and I’m afraid, Islam is one.
                Yes, we cannot turn the clock back and it would be wrong to try to do so. But we do not have to keep compounding the issue by uncontrolled immigration from alien cultures.

                • dado_trunking

                  Apologies, you appear to be confusing religious with class issues. All the doctors/ scientists/ designers from Pakistan, Bulgaria, Syria etc that I know are perfectly normal people.

                  Who is it that you mix with?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …now, are you falsely claiming to be an engineer again, lad?

                • dado_trunking

                  What false claim is this? Engineers cannot know doctors/scientists/designers and so on? Absolutely curious.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  So you are once again falsely claiming to be an engineer.

                  Pitiful. Simply pitiful.

                • Jen The Blue

                  Not at all. The fact that many educated nominal Muslims (or even ex-Muslims) are perfectly normal is really neither here nor there.

                  The fact is that what Islam teaches is incompatible with western values. Where you have large groups of Muslims concentrated in areas of Britain you will invariably get a large number who refuse to integrate and who will believe the barbarism of Islamic teaching its entirety.

                  Of course it would be ludicrous to say all Muslims are evil or say that no Muslims have integrated into UK society.

                  Just as ridiculous as it is to deny the problem that exists because you know a few who have.

                • dado_trunking

                  No, I am not denying a problem existed. Where have I ever denied it?

                  And, lad, who do you mix with, because all the Muslims I know are perfectly normal people. Answer the question.

                • Jen The Blue

                  Of course Muslims are normal people – I never suggested otherwise. It was Islam I was criticising as a dangerous and incompatible belief system.

                  What is the point in me answering the question? You are unlikely to know to them.

                • dado_trunking

                  Islam is a dangerous and incompatible belief system, your words.
                  That’s nonsense and you know it. It is not any more ‘dangerous or incompatible’ than Buddhism, Creationism, Scientology, or Jedi Knightery.

                • Jen The Blue

                  It is not nonsense at all.

                  I am no expert on some of those religions you mention, but as far as I know, none of them believe in the supremacy of their adherents and their rights over nonbelievers. None of those have as a central tenet of their religion that unbelievers have inferior rights and that they must pay a tax to remain alive, or be killed.

                  Of course there are many “muslims” who do not wish to subjugate the dhimmi and force them to pay the Jizya. But that is what Islam teaches and if a Muslim rejects the words of the Prophet they are apostate.

                  I am not in any way attacking all people in the UK or elsewhere who identify themselves as Muslims. I am attacking vehemently the evil religion of Islam itself and the political ideology that it is bound to.

        • trotters1957

          The vast majority of the children abused in Rotherham were Asian Muslims. Stop lying to incite racism.

      • Denis_Cooper

        Far more important than the vote on the right being split is the vote on the left no longer being split to the same degree as in 2010.

        • dado_trunking

          Correct, the LibDem vote then clearly prevented what would have been a disastrous Labour majority then. That buffer has vanished.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …they’ll need you socialist nutters and all your army of sockpuppets to make up the difference, lad.

  • an ex-tory voter

    “highlight the divisions on the right”

    Nonsense, UKIP are right of centre the Cameroon Party are left of centre and no longer worthy of the title “conservative”.

    There is no division on the right, only a division between the Cameroons and Conservatives / conservatives.

    • Istretchforthmyhands

      What would be the difference between small c conservatives and Conservatives. Always wondered.

    • saffrin

      Yes but any benefit Labour gain from tory voters defecting to UKIP is lost each day as more news of Labour’s deceit is fed to the electorate.
      News such as; Voting Labour resulted in 1,400 White children being raped on a regular basis after Labour’s PC placemen/wimin chose to support multiculturalism before the law.
      All those concerned must be prosecuted for perverting the course of justice and jailed accordingly.

      • Alexsandr

        Labour will be in trouble in some seats because of Rotherham child abuse. Many tribal labour voters are realising they dont like the labour ideology, and that labour do not stand for their old core vote.

        • Flintshire Ian

          They might think light that, but they will mainly vote Labour in the end. Because their Grandad did, or because the wicked Tories will take away their benefits, or end the NHS or their job on the Council will disappear, or any number of other Labour lies that they swallow every time.

    • Blindsideflanker

      Can you make a right left split? UKIP wishes to restore our sovereignty, in part to get control of immigration, if they did that would help the low paid, who were the core Labour vote, who are getting shafted by Labour’s mass immigration policy. So does that make UKIP left of Labour?

  • Otto von Bismarck

    The big question is, will Hannan be the next to jump? Hannan/Carswell/Farage would be a very potent combination. If more follow Carswell, it may signal the start of a Canadian style split.

    • JoeDM

      That would be good news indeed !!!

      • Otto von Bismarck

        Sadly, he has just ruled it out. Shame!

  • @PhilKean1

    .
    It is the bold move that the British people desperately needed.

    The deceit and the betrayal perpetrated by the 3 consensus parties has to be challenged. With this defection, Douglas has added his considerable weight to UKIP’s fight to help British voters regain control of their politicians.

    And let us not be in any doubt. The path Cameron is leading us along will result in continued membership of the EU – and the complete loss of the British peoples’ sacred democracy.

    Douglas Carswell understands this fact and has made the decision to join UKIP in order to try to bring an end to the greatest deceit ever perpetrated on the British people.
    .

    • @PhilKean1

      .
      And let NO-ONE tell me that Cameron seriously wants to give the British people the chance to leave the EU.

      Why else would he be rushing to get Britain included in new EU trade deals, and opting back IN to EU crime and Justice measures – including the hated and feared EU Arrest Warrant.
      .

      • southerner

        “….let NO-ONE tell me that Cameron seriously wants to give the British people the chance to leave the EU….”
        It’s only the love-struck sheep like Hooky that keep repeating that lie.

        • telemachus

          I believe it
          *
          It is perhaps one of the true planks of the current Osborne Strategy for our future
          The irony of it all is that Carswell has made exit less rather than more likely
          *
          You well know that every vote for UKIP is a surrogate vote for the forces of reason
          *
          And do not forget the moral dimension

          • Kitty MLB

            You have returned Wasp! Its been rather quiet
            here in your absence.

            • telemachus

              Sorry Kitty
              It all downhill for you until next May

              • Kitty MLB

                Have you been eating those strange mushrooms
                again, wasp.

                • telemachus

                  Yevgeny Roizman’s efforts have made these a thing of the past
                  *
                  Boris could learn a thing or two

                • Kitty MLB

                  Well this is very interesting, Indeed Boris can
                  learn a thing or two..and indeed all of us, comrade.

          • mattghg

            “every vote for UKIP is a surrogate vote for the forces of reason”

            Leave “surrogate” out of that sentence and you would be on to something

    • Blindsideflanker

      Not just the deceit perpetrated, but the deceit they are planning.

      We can all see straight through Cameron in a phoney EU renegotiation he is planning.

      • @PhilKean1

        Exactly right.
        .

    • perdix

      The ubiquitous Phil Kean getting streamed up again – happens at least twice a day!

    • somewhereinthesouth

      All he to do now is get a UKIP nomination – since he’s NOT the official UKIP candidate [yet].

      !

    • Simon Denis

      I seem to recall sensible postings from you. Why are you doing the left’s bidding? Vote Tory for general elections and Kip away as much as you like in euro-rubbish. Then tip him out of number ten if he doesn’t bring back a reasonable deal – likely – or if he fails to recommend an out vote. Timing, my dear sir, timing. Even if you hate the modernisers – so-called – the best thing you can do is present them with a fully Tory government. They were overjoyed that they had the yellow peril to help them. They’ll be overjoyed to make common cause with Red Ed against you. So don’t fall for it. It strikes me that whilst I’ve been away these threads have been filled with people winding each other up into a community of frustration and unwisdom. Don’t, I repeat, do what the left wants you to do which is to split the right.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        What does a socialist nutter like you know about we conservatives, lad? Get on over with your LibLabCon mates and leave the rest be.

        But if you’re so worried about it all, suggest you not split the UKIP vote.

  • YahYah

    To be fair, I think it was always George Osborne that Carswell didn’t really like. I remember sitting in front of him once and overhearing him wax lyrical about all the things “George” was doing wrong. I didn’t catch any animosity towards Cameron.

    • Kitty MLB

      Who on earth can dislike George Osborne. He stopped this country from becoming bankrupt. He strong, decisive, attractive and right. And loathes
      Lefties.

      • YahYah

        I’m a big fan of George, but I can see why people don’t like him.

  • A_Libertarian_Rebel

    This is hilarious spin. To name but three, Carswell is an advocate of:

    1. UK independence from ever-expanding EU suprantional political union:
    2. sound money and fiscal recovery, not QE and fake “austerity”:
    3. energy security realism, not genuflecting to the Green Religion.

    In other words, the very antithesis of Cameroon “modernisation”.

    • dado_trunking

      Sorry to disappoint, but
      1- supranational concerns in Britain are here to stay, with Ukip or without.
      2- hear hear – Ukip have a sound money policy 😉
      3- energy realism has long set in, clarifying that electricity generation form Russian coal is down, nuclear power is outdated and unaffordable and local energy generation is expanding year on year to reduce the reliance on fossil fuel imports and untimately balance the books. What further clarity does one require?

      • girondas2

        Ah, it’s the one and only Special Brew.
        Sobered up yet?

        • dado_trunking

          Boy, I told you yesterday to look in the mirror and blame yourself, many times in different ways. Today this is all over the news. YOU knew what was going on, YOU did nothing.
          Now heads will roll, make no mistake. White heads.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …it must be fascist heads, if we’re to deal with you socialist nutters, lad. You types caused this.

            • dado_trunking

              Oh sure laddie. May I assert now that I do not reside in a deprived part of Britain like you apparently do. Here, where I reside, right in the centre, some say the heart of Britain, we have not let things slip like you have. And incidentally, no one, absolutely no one, votes Ukip here. They do not even bother stand here. Social and societal depravity, whether it’s the effects of the banksters on the Home Counties or the simple poverty and lack of funding in places like Rochdale and Rotherham, *breeds* a Ukip response.

              Not here lad, not in the heart of Britain – in your deprived and morally corrupt environment however, that is where Ukip will thrive.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Good thing I got out of that gibberish early, lad.

                You live in a socialist nutter part, lad. It’s the one you fascists want to expand, in fact. It includes rabid multi culti bilge, which has resulted in the child s e x slavery you’re frantically apologizing for.

                • dado_trunking

                  A p o l o g i s i n g ? Watch heads roll, buddy. This will be right up your street.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, apologizing. You socialist nutters always fake that, before moving on with your socialist nuttery.

                • girondas2

                  It all makes sense if you assume that Dado is a muslim.
                  Blaming the victim is at the core of the islamic belief system.

                • girondas2

                  Got a stiffy on have you?

          • girondas2

            I can only make sense of your rantings if I assume that you are a muslim.

            • dado_trunking

              You are exceptionally stupid, girondas2. Other words fail me.

              • girondas2

                Words fail you do they?
                You nornally rant like a madman – what’s stopping you this time?

                • dado_trunking

                  Your level of evident stupidity is unrivalled – even viceroy does not come close.

                • girondas2

                  I think I’ve got your number, haven’t I?
                  Little Mo’

                • dado_trunking

                  Boyo, Ace will sort you out in a light wash – you are no match for me.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Well plenty because I doubt that anybody can follow this nonsense or divine its relevance.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        No need to be sorry, lad. You never disappoint. You’re always a socialist nutter, accompanied by an army of sockpuppets .

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    iDemocracy is the future – see carswell’s book – as representative democracy has been found wanting in a comprehensively-educated, FoI Act enabled, broadband-equipped world.

    Westminster’s as dead as Divine Right of Kings – and for the same reason: divorced from reality and the needs of those they govern.

    • Bert

      Would iDemocracy allow us a quick vote to bring back hanging for child abusers and those professionals, officials and police who turned a blind eye?

    • Tony_E

      iDemocracy will make little or no difference. The powers that be will still control the scope of the questions asked. The BBC will still set the agenda along with the Schools and Universities, the public bodies and the police will still protect the right of the liberal elite to crush free thought and speech.

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