Coffee House

Breaking: Tory MP Douglas Carswell defects to Ukip

28 August 2014

11:08 AM

28 August 2014

11:08 AM

In the past few minutes, Tory MP Douglas Carswell has announced at a special press conference that he is defecting to Ukip.

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This is a surprise for a number of reasons. The first is that Ukip had given all impressions that they’d stopped trying to tempt MPs over after talks with several backbenchers failed. The second is that Carswell had appeared increasingly loyal to David Cameron after the Prime Minister pledged to hold a referendum in the next Parliament. In a long address covering his dissatisfaction with politics and the Conservative party, Carswell told the press conference that he thought ‘they’re not serious about it’ and that the Prime Minister was only aiming to get sufficient changes that would get British voters to support staying in the European Union.

‘David Cameron has made up his mind, he wants to stay in. This is all about positioning for the election.’

Update, 11.15: Carswell has announced that he is forcing a by-election in his constituency. This is a real Black Swan moment for David Cameron. 


There are many huge ripples from this defection. But the Conservative party will have to consider how on earth to respond to Carswell, a popular MP who has increased local Tory membership and his majority. He is a maverick, for sure, but a maverick through deep thinking and intellectual self-confidence. And that is difficult to dismiss. There are many backbenchers whose defections would have been easier to wave off.

Other problems: you’d have to be a very, very loyal party footsoldier to agree to go down and help in the by-election fight against a former colleague. A small split in the party will emerge simply over whether you’re an MP prepared to knock on doors on behalf of whoever the Tory candidate is, or whether you’d rather stay away and tacitly congratulate Carswell on taking a stand.


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Show comments
  • flux5000

    Vote for UKIP, lose the NHS.

    Don’t believe me?
    Go and look at the blog of UKIP MEP Paul Nuttal. “The NHS stifles competition”.

    Amazing most kippers have no clue what their senior members actually stand for…

  • revkevblue

    000

  • d_whpl

    To those who say it was the wrong decision – how do you know better than him? If there ever was a man with the patience to grit his teeth and stay in an imperfect position for the greater good of a cause, this was precisely Douglas Carswell. You can’t accuse him of not trying. If he took this step, he must have recently sensed or heard information to suggest that his ‘subversion from inside’ plan was going to be systematically frustrated. He is principled but if he were not also practical and tactical, he would have done this years ago. I think he has recently seen some pretty hard internal evidence that thoroughly convinced him of the futility of his present approach.

  • steveherts

    Excellent news. The Cameron regime is a complete sham, the so-called referendum just political manoeuvring with no real intention to recover Britains sovereignty. Carswell is right the country is run by an increasingly insular, self-regarding liberal elite-same schools, same Oxbridge colleges, same platitudes. No principles and no real policies just reactions to crisis, and afraid to face real issues such as the rising influence of Islam. Enough! We need a new political configuration!

  • Lydia Robinson

    My hats off to you Carswell! I wish I had a principled fellow like you to vote for!

  • flux5000

    Looking like most people here are on the dole sitting in front of computers, but some of us have to go to work….

    • Alan

      work… or simply show up for the public sector where the rest of us sitting in front of a computer pay for “busy busy work” to be completed? :-)

    • Jerome Leroy

      You can’t use a tablet? are you 60 or something?

      • d_whpl

        Come on, 60 is not that old. I would expect any 60 year old to know how to use tablets these days.

        • Adam Carter

          I’m 58 and I don’t know how to use a tablet. Or a smartphone.
          Your expectation is not reasonable.

  • Christian

    Ha ha, you really have no idea what’s happening do you? I’ll help you out: the Conservative Party is over. Finished. Dead.

    • Simon Fay

      Not dead at all. Just smells a bit funny. And, yes, its apparent twitchings ARE largely due to the maggots writhing under its outer-garments, I’ll grant you. But it remains the market-leader in organising end-of-the-season UK seaside bum-sex jollies.

  • misomiso

    This could be the start of a full blown strategy by UKIP to destabalise the Tory party in the run up to the election.

    DC and GO have completely failed to understand UKIP and how to deal with it. They took an aggressive line and thought they were being clever by putting up an ex UKIP guy against Farage.

    If they want to hold onto power they need to tacitly collude, and the form an independent eurosceptic Unionist party in Scotland.

    • Wessex Man

      what?

  • David Cowley

    Carswell can now join Helmer and Hamilton, such noble company. (amusing comment plagiarised from Guardian site….)

    • Wessex Man

      Typical Tory lose the argument and resort to smear!

      • Ian

        But look at the treacherous type of people he has left

  • JoeDM

    A man of stature !!!

    I will go to Clacton and walk the streets campaigning for him !!!!

    I hope many other real Tories will do the same.

  • Bert

    Better offer a referndum this side of the election then.

  • Simon Fay

    Interesting but too little too late.

  • Tony_E

    There may be a different spin to this than has at first appeared. Clacton would have been a target seat for UKIP whatever the Conservative candidate. They would have been run close.

    Now, Carswell may think he has increased his chances of re-election by going now and taking the chance that they won’t boot him out next year, and he will unite the right in his seat. He will of course, continue to vote largely with the Tories in Parliament over most issues.

  • jaz

    I have never voted Tory in my life, and nor will I, and I will certainly not vote UKIP, but I have a lot of time for Carswell. He is a rare thing among MPs, a man of principle. He also has a lot of smart things to say, especially about technology and the nature of power. I like his approach and if there were more like him then I can’t help but think that the HoC would be a far better place.
    I also think it is utterly typical of him to resign as an MP and seek re-election, rather than take the weasel approach of just crossing the floor.
    I wish him personally well and at the same time I hope that his party is obliterated in the next election, although I think his membership has made that less likely.

    • Jerome Leroy

      You will never vote Tory in your life? thats a big statement to make, I mean in the future (possible) if all other parties are adopting the same party line, and the Torys are the only party giving an alternative view, you would think tribally?

      Just curious

      • jaz

        That’s a fair comment and I take your criticism on board. Let me rephrase it to give a politician’s answer. I cannot imagine the circumstances in which I would vote Tory.

        • Jerome Leroy

          Thank you for your response, fair enough.

  • Reconstruct

    Let’s hope David Davis and Dan Hannan join him.

    • GUBU

      Don’t hold your breath waiting for that to happen…

      • Reconstruct

        I’m not, believe me. But one can dream. . .

        • obiwan

          Daniel Hannan would make an excellent UKIP Leader…

  • flux5000

    Q all the right wing apologists…

    • Jerome Leroy

      Q all the socialist nonces in Rotherham.

      • flux5000

        You wouldn’t know Socialism if it smacked you in the face. A person that abuses children can be right wing, left wing, a Socialist or whatever.
        Your generalizing is just pathetic and say’s you have nothing better to say, how sad.
        As it happens, thatcher protected pedophiles, I bet you were a thatcherite back in the day, if you’re old enough that is…

        • Jerome Leroy

          Wow, I wouldn’t know socialism if it smacked me in the face? the UAF would probably do that a a UKIP rally.

          Its no lie that a Labour majority council let pakistani origin men nonce around under age girls because they were scared of offending people who would threaten to blow up rotherham train station.

          Let the police profile criminals and bring them to justice.

  • southerner

    Ha ha ha ha.

    Hooky – has your internet connection gone down for some strange reason?

  • realfish

    Unexpected vacancy in Clacton? Go on Boris, dip y’er bread in.

  • Ramon

    MORE PLEASE. VOTE UKIP

  • bengeo

    What do we want?

    1950!

    When do we want it?

    Then!

    • Christian

      Certainly wouldn’t mind 1950 crime and immigration levels.

      • Squire Western

        Neither would 1400 young girls in Rotherham.

      • bengeo

        We know!

  • David Cowley

    Excellent, another destabilising move from the fruitcake and loony tendency. Should shore up the 8% of swivel eyed racists who are split between us and UKIP and confirm to the rest of the electorate that we are single issue obsessives, and deliver a Miliband majority so there is NO referendum. Pyrrhic victory motivated by spite.

    • Alexandrovich

      Rattled are you?

      • David Cowley

        Nope. I’m a card carrying Tory member who nevertheless gave up on them years ago.
        They keep selecting nutters so I won’t engage and campaign for them.
        There will be a move to keep the fruitcakes and loonies in the fold, they’ll make the same mistakes Hague, Duncan-Smith and Howard made by creeping towards them, not convincing the nutters and alienating everyone else, and then they’ll lose again.
        Not sure how many times we’ll continue to mistake the Telegraph comments section for a proper focus group, and then lose again.

        • Full Name

          A weak minority Labour government that loses Scottish support is the optimal outcome with Cameron being kicked and UKIP gaining a bridgehead into Westminster.

          • Wessex Man

            could well be, can’t see Labour or UKip getting outright majorities though.

        • Alexandrovich

          So nominate a ‘proper focus group’ then.

          • David Cowley

            The electorate – we’ve been experimenting with right of Major since about 1994. How’s that been working out for you so far?

            • Alexandrovich

              Not right enough by half, leading to the recent surge in support for UKIP.

              • David Cowley

                Hmmm. Seem to recollect that we didn’t have a decent turn out of voters since John Major got the largest number ever in 1992.

                “The Conservatives received what remains the largest number of popular votes in British history, breaking the record set by Labour in 1951.” (Wikipedia, admittedly, but think it’s true)
                Suggests that all the moving off to the right since 1992 hasn’t really been very effective? Fine if you want to continue to lose, but really just the Tory version of the SDP and thoroughly self-indulgent.

                • Wessex Man

                  A party that loses half of it’s membersghip including me and many other in our area since Camerloon became leader is a party drifting slowly downward all by it’s own efforts with no help from anyone else.

        • Wessex Man

          are you sure?

          • David Cowley

            ??

        • Colonel Mustard

          False flag or Long Marcher. Or Bercow.

      • Jerome Leroy

        He doesn’t like people with swivel eyes.

        I think he needs to go to prison to find them, but meh.

    • Denis_Cooper

      In case you haven’t noticed Cameron and his chums are well on the way to delivering a Miliband majority all by themselves without needing any help from UKIP. Don’t blame UKIP for the failures of the Tory party.

    • Full Name

      The toxic mantra is breaking up, the layers of control are unfolding…

      “Vote Not-Red, Get Blue”
      “Vote Not-Blue, Get Red”

      BS.

    • Squire Western

      Tory/labour are two sides of the same coin. Did it escape your notice that between them they have allowed mass immigration of Muslim paedophiles to these shores, shouting ‘racist’ at anyone who opposed them?

      • David Cowley

        That certainly destroys my argument that we’re perceived as loonies, fruitcakes and closet racists. I must have missed the EU Pandering to Pakistani Paedophiles Directive, which is no doubt because it wasn’t reported by the Blairite Broadcasting Commissar, (until Hutton….) and discussion of which was banned by the European Court of Human Rights……

  • edward

    This is great news – finally a politician who is brave and has some convictions.

    • Simon Fay

      Chuckle. The last couple of years has seen a good few of them acquire convictions in court – though nothing like enough.

  • YahYah

    “He is a maverick, for sure, but a maverick through deep thinking and intellectual self-confidence. And that is difficult to dismiss. There are many backbenchers whose defections would have been easier to wave off.”

    Oh, come on. His constituency has long been listed as prime Ukip territory by Matthew Goodwin. This isn’t about principle.

    • Full Name

      Carswell scores 88% (28pts) on Bruges Group’s MP Watch, one of the highest.
      Carswell has been working for Recall for a long time (see his blog) and is angered by the Cartel Parties fudge of it (again check his blog).
      Carswell wants Trade not Political Union. Cameron is clearly undermining that – again there’s abundant proof.

      All in all, Carswell is doing the honorable thing: Words + Actions = Agree.

      Very rare in politics.

      • YahYah

        Wow! He is not doing the honourable thing, he’s just panicking. About everything. Like he always does.

        He is an ineffective politician, as this decision proves. His political judgement is sh*t. The most notable thing he’s done since he entered Westminster was to hold a Fish & Chip dinner in his constituency.

  • alanmdouglas

    There’s never been a better time to … defect ! To plagiarise the Spectator ad line.

  • Radford_NG

    Carswell won Clacton(inc. Frinton and Walton-on-the Naze) with UKIP support in 2010.[Con.58% Lab.25%].The area of Jaywick is the most deprived in England.

  • gerronwithit

    Excellent! All Dave’s false promises starting to haunt him. I don’t think the country can stomach any more platitudes and promises about the EU, Immigration, Human Rights blah!, blah!, blah!.

    I know that Labour is the prime instigator of the disgraceful expose that has unfolded in Rotherham over the last few days, particularly with the unedifying spectacle of Labour apparatchiks refusing to leave office before their massive payouts and pensions are secured, but we cannot continue to have all Parties abusing the wishes of the electorate forever.

    It may cause us one more destructive period of Labour power but, sadly, that may be the price we have to pay to instigate real change.

    • Full Name

      You can successfully lie to most people most of the time but you can’t lie to all people all of the time.

      And hence The Great Deception plays out.

  • Denis_Cooper

    Good for him.

  • http://www.twitter.com/bongobongogovt Bongonian Govt

    I already left the party, but if I was still in the Conservative Party there is no way I’d campaign against Carswell, and I expect most of my local association feel the same way. I hope MPs and PPCs stand up to CCHQ and tell them to “go and do one” if they are threatened for non-attendance at Clacton.

  • unknownknowns

    Good for you Douglas.

    I do hope that this marks a reboot of a system that is far too cosy for the Political elite in their very own bubble.

    • flux5000

      Farage is part of that elite…

      • Denis_Cooper

        So you say.

      • alanmdouglas

        Silly silly remarks. Go back to the Socialist Worker where you belong.

        • flux5000

          He is an ex trader. He is supported by people in the city… Bit silly to ignore facts. kippers are famous for glossing over anything to protect their glorious leader…

          • Wessex Man

            So he was one of those, like us who worked to keep your dole money pouring in was he?

            • flux5000

              Pathetic attack, you know nothing of me. Fyi I am an ex para, seen many many NI tours, lost my cousin at Warren Point, been awarded a few bits of BS scrap metal.
              What have you done for your country that is so incredible, apart from being lucky enough to have worked all your life as I have done???

              • Wessex Man

                I don’t idly boast about what I’ve done!

              • Jerome Leroy

                Establishment doesn’t mean privately educated, rich etc.

                Established parties.

                Read much? that means Labour, Liberal democrats and Conservatives. Please stop being an idiot!

              • Colonel Mustard

                BS is right.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            That’s right lad he had a job. Ever considered getting one?

      • bengeo

        Just because he was educated at Dulwich College public school and worked in the city, trading commodities at the London Metal Exchange?

      • Full Name

        Not yet, the cosy elite takes time to forge Politico-Media-Politico Loop.

        The Cartel Parties = LibLabCon = All compromised and controlled at the top by Pro-EU interests.

        UKIP are far from being in the Elite given their gate-crashing The Great Deception.

        • flux5000

          Great deception, that’s a good one that is.

  • Mazzzz

    Congratulations, Mr Carswell! Let’s hope that quite a lot more Conservative MP’s have the guts to.

  • ohforheavensake

    Breaking News: Rat leaves sinking ship, clambers on board dinghy.

    • Wessex Man

      BATTLESHIP!

      • flux5000

        No MP’s means it’s a dinghy.

        • Wessex Man

          How many are you going to have, less than us now that the British people have woken up!

  • WatTylersGhost

    I have been a most vehement critic of Douglas Carswell on both his own blog site and the DT. I am delighted that finally this man has seen the light.

    Hannan and Carswell are politically joined at the hip, let’s see if Daniel Hannan now follows.

    Best wishes Douglas Carswell, welcome aboard and enjoy the ride!

    • Count Dooku

      Hannan would never join UKIP as it is today. A couple of years ago, maybe.

      Hannan is a Classical Liberal of the Whig mould. He just happens to be in the Tory party as they are the only major party in this country that has such a caucus.

      UKIP are morphing into the paternal Tories of the 50s. Very far away from Hannan.

      • Denis_Cooper

        “UKIP are morphing into the paternal Tories of the 50s.”

        No they’re not; you just make this stuff up as you go along, don’t you?

        • Wessex Man

          Poor old Dooku is terrified!

          • Count Dooku

            I am. Of Labour!

            If I could swap a Tory govt for a UKIP one I would. I voted for them in the 2009 European election. But even the current coalition is better than the UK under a Miliband-led government.

            • Jerome Leroy

              I agree, I don’t want to see another Labour government in my life time ever again.

              But if they do it will crush the current Tory party and force it to become the entity it needs to be, to get out of European union, not promise referendums which will be used for renegotiation which won’t amount to much based on recent history.

              Hopefully Ed won’t do a Darth Tyrannus on us! 😉

  • Peter Stroud

    Well done! Perhaps DC will begin to get the message.

    • Full Name

      None work harder than DC to keep the UK in the EU. He’s another one “groomed” for the job until the musical chairs passes the faux-democratic-leader role over to Labour to allow the faux-eurosceptic leader to re-charge. Except Farage is threatening that charade now.

  • @PhilKean1

    .
    Thank you, Douglas –

    – on behalf of the British people.

    Thank you.
    .

  • Clotsworth

    at long last, an Englishman worthy of that title of respect.

  • Kitty MLB

    As a Conservative ( further to the right then my leader) I am very shocked at this,
    I had him down as a potential leader. He is highly intelligent, perceptive- his book
    a few years ago about our economic downfall shows that. And he’s also genuine.
    But I wonder what Labour voters will think of this. Nigel Farage wishes his party to
    be the new party for old labour, the abandoned and betrayed working classes.

    • Mark McIntyre

      A potential future leader of the Tory Party ? – JDWC ?? – not in our mind, but, a potential future Deputy – aye.

    • Charles_Dilkes

      Labour voters don’t ‘think’ at all – that’s the problem. The electorate aren’t, as a whole, a bunch political animals digesting every nugget of political news.

      The working class are far more conservative than the Labour Party; their distaste for the Conservative Party is mere tribalism – it doesn’t say anything about UKIP.

      • flux5000

        Nice generalisation there, and that is your problem.

        • Charles_Dilkes

          Oh really? So the vast majority of the electorate are politically astute?

          You’re naive.

          • flux5000

            I didn’t say that though did I, typical rightie putting words in peoples mouths…

            • Denis_Cooper

              Just doing to you what you have tried to do to me.

              • flux5000

                You generalized, which it appears is what you are good at.
                UKIP policy will end the NHS, do you think that is a good idea or not?
                Simple question …

                • Denis_Cooper

                  “UKIP policy will end the NHS”

                  Really? And where have you seen a UKIP policy which would have the effect of ending the NHS?

                • flux5000

                  That is a problem, if you could point me to a full set of policies I would be grateful.
                  My comment was made from what Farage said some years ago, in that he agreed with the Conservatives when they say the NHS has been one big mistake.

                • Wessex Man

                  If I were a nasty person I would say you are lying but I won’t, I’ll just ask you to give a link showing him saying that.

                  UKip has already annouced that all of our policies will be presented at our Conference in Doncaster in September, can’t you wait that long? Have you got the policies of the Lib/dums Labour or the Tory party yet?

                  I’ve just come back from Bath NHS Hospital where I had a steriod injection into the spine, very well looked after, the only thing that annoyed me today about the event was that over 200 ungrateful souls never kept their appointments at the specialist unit I was treated in last month. I’m sure that each individual unit has the same problem, all the wasted time when others could have been treated. Let’s have two strikes and you are out!

                • flux5000

                  it was on ITV news about four years ago.

                  Any serious political party ought to have their core values enshrined in policy documents available already, UKIP have been there long enough to have these available.
                  Sorry to hear of your health problems, but I cannot agree with your two strikes comment.
                  Peoples health is paramount, and it doesn’t help when people don’t turn up I know, but you can’t deny people a chance for better health, which is happening already due to the £1.5 billion in private contracts already given out.

                • Wessex Man

                  If it was on ITV news four years ago it should be quite easy for you to provide a link.

                  nigel Farage incase you haven’t noticed isn’t in a position of power until 2015!

                • flux5000

                  Oh yes, really easy that one, trawl through ITV website for hours on end just to provide you with a link, I don’t think so.
                  Now where are those policies for ukip? That ought to be an easy one to find, unless they just don’t exist that is…

                • Wessex Man

                  oh dear, can’t you just google it and then pass it on?

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  So you are generalising then laddie?

                • Denis_Cooper

                  A shameless smearmonger is what you are.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  It has lad. That is why healthcare standards in this country are terrible and a privatised health service is a necessity.

                • flux5000

                  UKIP MEP Paul Nutall, on his own blog. You have heard of him I take it? He stated that “The NHS stifles competition”. He would like to see it gone.

                • flux5000

                  Replied to many here already, perhaps you need to frequent yourself with your own MEP’s? Especially Paul Nutall, who stated on his own blog, “The NHS stifles competition”.
                  Surprising you are not even aware of what the senior party members stand for…

                • Richard Williams

                  What will end the NHS is a combination of the 2012 Health and Social Care Act and the TTIP that is heading our way.

                • flux5000

                  And it was a right wing party that brought in said Act. I don’t see Farage or Cameron making any negative noises on that front either.

                • Jerome Leroy

                  Agreed Richard, all this talk about UKIP / Torys destroying the NHS is scare mongering.

                  All 3 parties want the TTIP, as they are all pro European.

                • flux5000

                  So the tories aren’t destroying the NHS then?
                  The Health and Social Care Act is a figment of our imagination?

                • Alan

                  Close the NHS. Easy. It”s a millstone.

                • flux5000

                  Typical rightie, right up to the point they need the NHS that is.

                • Jerome Leroy

                  Clocked you now, just a troll.

                  You vote Labour

                  You support TTIP

                  You are against democracy

                • flux5000

                  Wow, amazing, clueless post alert!

                  Never voted Labour in my life, so wrong on that one.

                  I hate TTIP, how you surmised that is beyond me, as you have “clocked me” I would have thought you would have seen my post about me being pro NHS.

                  I am a Socialist, I believe in what is best for this country and it’s people, if you think the last 40 odd years of right wing policies have been a good thing, then poor you, or perhaps your middle name is Jack, as in I am alright….

                • Jerome Leroy

                  Hardly clueless,

                  I’m using your own tactics against you.

                  If you are as you say pro NHS, then you should be against the introduction of TTIP.

                  That will really destroy the NHS.

                  My middle name is none of your concern and personal attacks are habitual from you.

                • flux5000

                  I am against TIPP, where did I state that I was against it???
                  Personal attacks are being aimed at me by the kippers, do unto others and all that… You guy’s just can’t take it when it’s fired back.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  SWP. You reek of it.

                • Alan

                  Who cut YOUR hair, the council?? Typical Leftie… happy to support the benefits they don’t have to pay for. The trouble with socialists is that they eventually run out of other people’s cash. The NHS is one big black hole. It may be needed in the 30s but not today. I MAY need medical assistance .. I certainly won’t NEED an NHS. If I wouldn’t trust a government to produce my motor car or cut my hair then why would I trust it with my health?

                • flux5000

                  Motor cars and health are not the same…

                  you are a right wing swivel eyed loon that the press speaks off, looks like you are all here as well…

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Labour policy has ended England. Not a good idea because what is coming will make the country your lot destroyed look like Eden.

            • Charles_Dilkes

              Well elucidate your opinion then – I’m not a mind reader.

              • flux5000

                Your comment stated that “Labour voters don’t ‘think’ at all – that’s the problem”.
                As I said, generalization.

                • Charles_Dilkes

                  I also abutted it with:

                  “The electorate aren’t, as a whole, a bunch political animals digesting every nugget of political news.”

                  Clearly you missed that part.

                • flux5000

                  Even that is a generalization! You righties so love to move the goal posts…

                • Charles_Dilkes

                  No, it’s a proviso.

                • flux5000

                  fantasy land.

                • Charles_Dilkes

                  Maybe you should look up what a qualification / caveat / proviso is.

                • flux5000

                  It was generalizing, “The electorate aren’t, as a whole, a bunch political animals digesting every nugget of political news.”
                  As I said, generalizing nonsense.
                  Like saying “All Welsh people are stupid”, or all Australians are uncouth.

                • Charles_Dilkes

                  No, it’s a proviso.

                  >>Like saying “All Welsh people are stupid”, or all Australians are uncouth.<<

                  No it isn't. They're absolute statements.

                • ThinkerStinker

                  You obviously don’t understand what Charles_Dilkes is saying. What he said was “The electorate aren’t, as a WHOLE, a bunch of political animals digesting every nugget of political news.”
                  And that is the problem, the political Establishment can and do ‘hoodwink’ the general public a lot of the time. BUT as Full Name has said on here:
                  “You can successfully lie to most people most of the time but you can’t lie to all people all of the time.
                  And hence The Great Deception plays out.”

                • flux5000

                  40 odd years of right wing policy, and some of you here think brown/blair were Socialists, say’s it all really.

                  To be fair, most people don’t have the time to “digest every nugget of political news”, most people feel helpless, they have a view, but don’t see it being represented, all they see is the business agenda being put before people and country.
                  I see right wing political parties as representatives of corporations, and I consider labour/libdems and ukip as right wing.

                • Jerome Leroy

                  So now you finally understand what Charles_Dilkes has stated earlier today.

                  You’re now level 2.

                • flux5000

                  I am now level 2? Oh dear, go on then, what does that mean in your little world?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Ah, that’s a good one. Blair/Brown not socialists so we can airbrush out the New Labour years and re-invent the party from a “clean” slate.

                • flux5000

                  Blair just continued thatchers policies, he almost joined the tories, but was persuaded by his wife to join labour instead, even balls used to be in the young conservatives.
                  But you knew that already I am sure ….

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Agreed but all leftists are stupid. You cannot generalise about Australians, Welsh, English etc etc but all leftists are stupid.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Or all Labour voters suck.

                • flux5000

                  You make a caveat when you are unsure of your position or facts…

                • Charles_Dilkes

                  I’m not presenting a fact I’m presenting an opinion.

                • flux5000

                  Or a position ….

                • Charles_Dilkes

                  All ‘opinions’ are positions, obviously.

                • flux5000

                  So obviously I was correct, glad you agree.

                • Charles_Dilkes

                  That’s a matter of opinion 😉

                  Feel free to humour yourself.

                • flux5000

                  In denial, a current theme amongst ukip believers :}

                • Charles_Dilkes

                  Realism appears delusional to people who are overly quixotic.

                • flux5000

                  Full of fancy words, short on political comment….
                  In decades to come the kippers will bemoan how they can’t afford their knee operation because the NHS isn’t there anymore…

                • Charles_Dilkes

                  >>>Full of fancy words, short on political comment….<<>>In decades to come the kippers will bemoan how they can’t afford their knee operation because the NHS isn’t there anymore…<<<

                  We'll see.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Your reds live in it and strive towards it, making life miserable for everyone. A record of not just monumental failure but destruction too.

                • flux5000

                  No, that allegation ought to be aimed directly at the right wing policies we have seen here in the UK over the last 40 odd years, take a look around, it doesn’t look good to me.
                  Another one that doesn’t know his left from his right.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Makes a change, etc.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  No those leftist sheep don’t think lad. Why else would we get a leftist government and a shattered economy?

            • Colonel Mustard

              Makes a change. It ‘s usually you reds doing the “So, you . . . ” routine.

      • fathomwest

        What a ridiculous and insulting comment. As a proud working class man I have voted Tory but not under the leadership of Cameron, who is as Tory as Grimond was.

    • flux5000

      He was a part of the deregulation of the city, in that he didn’t do a damn thing about it.
      UKIP can never replace Socialist values, the problem is that a lot of people are just catching on to how right wing the Labour party have gone.
      You most likely won’t be happy until the NHS is scrapped and everyone is on food stamps.

      • Blindsideflanker

        The socialists and Labour have screwed the working classes. UKIP at least want to put the British people first.

        • flux5000

          Wrong, Labour are not Socialist and haven’t been for a long time.
          UKIP want nothing more than a gravy train.
          You think scrapping the NHS is good? I and many others do not.

          • Denis_Cooper

            “UKIP want nothing more than a gravy train.”

            Oddly enough, not everybody thinks like that.

            • flux5000

              You reply to one part, but not the other. Can we take it you are in fact in favor of scrapping the NHS then?

              • Denis_Cooper

                “Can we take it you are in fact in favor of scrapping the NHS then?”

                Whoever “we” may be, “you” should not try to put words into other peoples’ mouths.

                • flux5000

                  UKIP policy will scrap the NHS, you replied to one part, but not the other, selective aren’t you…

                • Denis_Cooper

                  As below, where have you seen this UKIP policy which would have the effect of scrapping the NHS?

                • flux5000

                  As below, where are the UKIP policies?
                  As below I said “My comment was made from what Farage said some years ago, in that he
                  agreed with the Conservatives when they say the NHS has been one big
                  mistake.”

                • Alexandrovich

                  So what you’re saying is, he wouldn’t scrap the NHS.

                • flux5000

                  Read again, slowly perhaps?

                • Wessex Man

                  Well I’m still waiting for your link to prove it dearie!

                • flux5000

                  As below, I stated that I saw it on ITV news about four years ago.
                  Now where are those policies? Dearie

                • Wessex Man

                  so that would have been 2011, you can remember it but you can’t prove it. You are just a smear merchant!

                • flux5000

                  I don’t need to prove anything, but as I said, it was on ITV news, so I can obviously remember it.
                  I don’t need to smear ukip, they do a fantastic job all on their own.

                • Wessex Man

                  no no please you must take the credit for the smears and lies spouted about my party before the European Elections, did you a lot of good didn’t it!

                • Denis_Cooper

                  “I don’t need to prove anything”

                  Of course not, you can just post any old rubbish you like, and being a smearmonger you will do so.

                • Wessex Man

                  course you do or we would all know you are nothing but a liar.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Or a socialist nutter. Oh, same thing.

                • flux5000

                  You will say anything to deflect from the fact that A. You have no clue what your own party members actually stand for, and B. Say anything to deflect from the fact that ukip doesn’t have any policies.

                • flux5000

                  Paul Nutall, UKIP MEP, “The NHS stifles competition”. That is a direct quote from his own blog.
                  Another kipper that has no clue what the party stands for, rather worrying.

                • flux5000

                  Instead of spouting nonsense, why not just answer the question?

              • Jerome Leroy

                You have no evidence to suggest that UKIP will remove NHS hospitals from this country.

                Complete fear mongering again from you

                • flux5000

                  No one will remove hospitals, they will remove the NHS though, you see, ukip agree that the NHS was a mistake, which is why they will never rule the country.
                  ukip are pro market.

                • Wessex Man

                  Just asked you below to prove, rather shallow on proving your comments arn’t you?

                • flux5000

                  Look at what your own UKIP MEP Paul Nuttall say’s about the NHS on his own blog.
                  “The NHS stifles competition”, shame you are not aware of what your own party members are saying, rather typical for a kipper…
                  I look forward to seeing your rather pathetic and derogatory remark of being shallow retracted.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Well the market pays for everything laddie. Only you socialist nutters think it is feasible to just print money.

                • flux5000

                  The market does not pay for everything, laddie.
                  Tax money pay’s for the NHS etc.
                  Banks creat 97% of the money out of thin air, then add interest, laddie.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Oh dear another thick leftist who doesn’t understand money. All taxes come from the private sector lad. Nobody working in the public sector pays tax directly they merely recirculate taxes generated by the private sector.

                • flux5000

                  You aren’t even good at throwing insults. Most corporate tax isn’t paid, it goes offshore.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  You are just too thick to bother with. Only the private sector generates wealth and pays tax.

                • flux5000

                  Look at what UKIP MEP Paul Nuttall said, he wants to see the NHS ended, he thinks it “stifles competition”.

                  You were saying? “Fear mongering”? Get a grip, you don’t even know what your party members are saying or what they stand for, typical UKIP member…

              • Inverted Meniscus

                Yes definitely lad.

              • Wessex Man

                I keep asking you for that link about the NHS, if you can’t back up your lies stop telling them!

                • flux5000

                  Paul Nuttall, UKIP MEP.

                  On his own blog, which you are obviously unaware off, funny that, a kipper that has no clue what the people running the party stands for, a running theme…

          • SimonToo

            Absolutely. Keep on having those Socialist revolutions until you get one that works. Produce that utopian society (and sod the people in it).

            • flux5000

              Banks, trains, NHS, education, power, water, all privatized, and look at how well they have turned out….

              Oh dear

              • starfish

                Banks privatised? Missed that one
                NHS is far from privatised which is why it is cr@p
                Education? Nope, not privatised
                Water – I will give you that one, still I remember the halcyon days pre-privatisation – raw sewage on the beaches, poisoned rivers
                Rail? Probably too young to remember British Rail….

              • Colonel Mustard

                You don’t remember much about Britain before 1979 do you?

            • flux5000

              You don’t even know what socialism is.
              Right wing policies over the last 40 odd years are what we see the results of now.
              Perhaps you think the country is in great shape, others do not.

              • Wessex Man

                and you do dearie?

                • flux5000

                  Well obviously you don’t, dearie

                • Wessex Man

                  not with your lot in power dearie!

              • Colonel Mustard

                We know it never works. Ever. Not anywhere.

              • SimonToo

                I don’t even know what Socialism is? Socialism is a failed state, another Socialist experiment, more national vivisection. Even on a local scale, whether Margaret Hodge’s Islington, Derek Hatton’s Liverpool or current Rotherham (which, unusually, seems without any obvious Great Leader), Socialism is a boot stamping on the human face – forever, if it could.

                Are you under some delusion that you know what Socialism is?

                • flux5000

                  Obviously you are still under the illusion that Labour are left wing, like I said, deluded.

                • SimonToo

                  Quite clearly Labour is not the “proper” sort of left wing, but can humanity endure the quest for the right one?

          • Erictheowl

            “UKIP want nothing more than a gravy train.”

            You really shouldn’t judge everyone by your own rather low standanrds, dear.

            • flux5000

              Just going off ukip standards, dear.

              • Wessex Man

                I dread to think what your standards or values dearie!

                • flux5000

                  I happen to think privatization was a bad experiment that needs correcting. Perhaps you think this country is in such a great shape, I mean, we have had the ‘benefit’ of right wing policies for 40 odd years, and this is what we see for them… Can I take it you can think and see? dearie

                • Wessex Man

                  no dearie you don’t pull that one, I remember why Thatcher had to be so hard, after Sunny Jim and his winter of discontent, then we had the Blair Brown show and now we have Call me Dave and Cleggover soundbite govenment. Time for real people to take over dearie!

                • Jerome Leroy

                  Yes Nostradamus, you are correct, the NHS will be torn down by those nasty right parties, you should only vote Labour/Liberal to save our country, and our NHS.

                  Yet to see you provide any proof, no manifesto to even go on

                  Fear mongering tactics again

                  Or a troll, same thing.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Actually most of the rot is the result of socialist policies and inept Tory governments.

              • Jerome Leroy

                Nah, sounds like your standards for UKIP.

                Labour increased the gravy train under Tony Blair son.

                Unbucky

                Or shall we hold your socialists to account for failed promises under Blair/Brown.

                • flux5000

                  blair was just a thatcher man, he just carried on her work, son. If you can’t see that then you are a political dimwit sir.

                • Wessex Man

                  First it’s dear and then it’s son is therer no end to your condescending babble?

                  Blair a Thatcher man do me a favour!

                • Colonel Mustard

                  They all do that. The diminutive is meant to put you down and demonstrate their intellectual superiority. They all resort to it eventually.

                • Jerome Leroy

                  Huh? according to all my friends who vote Labour he wasn’t a Thatcherite, just a warmonger in my eyes.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  “A new day has dawned has it not?”

                  Hur hur hur. The way you reds shape shift to dodge the blame! Now you can blame Thatcher for 13 years of New Labour.

                • flux5000

                  Calling brown/blair Socialists, whatever next. At least you gave me a laugh…

                • Jerome Leroy

                  I’ve been laughing at you all day while I take your tax money and spend it on drugs.
                  Pahahahahaha

                • Wessex Man

                  I don’t for one moment that you ever laugh!

                • flux5000

                  ‘Eh? In your haste to type you are forgetting your words…

      • Kitty MLB

        Well yes, when Blair said: we are all middle-class now, he betrayed
        his core voter.. those traditional, English and loyal working class people. New- Labour may of abandoned them for imported votes from
        the Middle East but they still exist.
        A Kipper friend has said UKIP do very well within the northern Labour
        heartlands.

        • flux5000

          Thats funny, a Green Party mate of a mate said that wasn’t true…

          • Wessex Man

            oh I get it now, you are a socialist green windbag!

            • flux5000

              No, just a Socialist, i’ll take it you are a swivel eyed rightie!

              • Jerome Leroy

                Scathing, personal

                Typical from the left

                • flux5000

                  Just replying to Wessex man comment in the same manner, funny you didn’t mention that, typical of a rightie, ignore what you don’t want to see…

                • Wessex Man

                  oh do grow up!

                • Jerome Leroy

                  Thats funny, a Green Party mate of a mate said that wasn’t true..

                  And you are not encouraging this behaviour? I’ve accused you of being a troll and fear mongering.

                  No defence?

                • flux5000

                  I have stated what I stand for here already, farage/cameron/milliband/clegg = all the same right wing agenda.
                  You calling me a troll just say’s to me you can’t deal with what I stand for and say. Far easier to call me a troll… Anyway, some of us here need to go to work, you do know what that is? Or are you one of those that sit there all day on the computer…

                • Jerome Leroy

                  More personal attacks.

                  “are you one of those”

                  Have you heard of tablets? I can be on a bus with wifi access doing this pal.

        • Wessex Man

          we will do well everywhre Kitty!

          • Kitty MLB

            The thing is my dear man is that Telemachus and I are very
            different people and want different things..you cant have us both. You are a Thatcher supporting Kipper from the Right.
            How do those Leftie supporting Northern kippers feel. I haven’t spoken to Raddy yet. But I don’t think he’s impressed.

      • alanmdouglas

        Socialist values are to be RESPECTED. Staffordshire, Rotherham, want more ?

        • flux5000

          I agree, I am a Socialist.

          • alanmdouglas

            You responded to one part of my argument. So you agree that Staffordshire NHS and Rotherham child-abuse are a good thing ?

            • flux5000

              Your answer is insulting. Get a grip.

              • Denis_Cooper

                Seems a fair conclusion, following your own line of argument.

                • flux5000

                  How anyone could think that is a good thing is beyond me, perhaps all you righties here would like to see more of that though?

                • Jerome Leroy

                  No, we would like to see people prosecuted for crimes, especially for perverting the course of justice.

                  The idea that Labour policies and political correctness has hampered these things are a large part of the problem, and your socialist party (LOL) are in the firing line.

                  Unlucky.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  These horrors always seem to happen in socialist jurisdictions though laddie.

              • alanmdouglas

                Merely responding to you in the manner you responded to another post. Glad you agree it is insulting.

          • Wessex Man

            yes we know your are continually us to the point of utter boredom!

            • flux5000

              Oh dear, can’t you think of anything else to say…

      • Wessex Man

        Socialist values, go tell that to the 1,400 girls let down in Rotherham or Rochdale or Sheffield or to Tony Blair multi millionaire or Gordon Brown multi millionaire.

        Socialist values no thank you.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Socialist values laddie. Are they the values that allow you to murder countless millions like those socialist heroes Stalin, Hitler. Mao, Pol Pot etched etc?

    • Wessex Man

      Kitty Kitty Kitty, please stop trying to paint this magnificent party, UKip as a pale imitation of Red Ed’s party, we are drawn together from across the political divides. People of all political persuasions who care about this country, who won’t fall for the lies and deceits practised daily by the Westminster Village.

      The times, they are changing, don’t get left behind!

      • Kitty MLB

        Red Ed’s party are not Labour.. they don’t
        represent some farmer from Yorkshire or plumber from Cumbria.
        Its fine to be drawn together from all political divides but voters from
        both main parties are very different. But do try, its a free country.

      • flux5000

        You may well care about this country, but if you vote for UKIP you will be voting to remove the NHS. Just look at the blog of Paul Nutall UKIP MEP. … quote “The NHS stifles competition”.

  • Count Dooku

    I will never forgive Farage and Carswell if their antics lead to a Labour govt next year.

    • Mark McIntyre

      Indeed – that would be a difficult call.

    • jack

      Its all the fault of the Liberal Dimwits who have watered down all that was regarded as traditional Conservatism.

      • Peter Stroud

        Allowed to water down, more likely.

      • Count Dooku

        Cameron has done his fair share of crazy stuff. Plain-packaging, and his mandatory p*rn filters among them.

        • flux5000

          Plain packaging is a good thing.

          • Count Dooku

            Good for who exactly? Adults can make their own decisions on what they do to their bodies.

            • flux5000

              True, but children shouldn’t. Glamorizing tobacco products have a direct influence on children, maybe you hadn’t thought of children smoking? Or young teenagers being influenced?

              • Count Dooku

                In case you’ve forgotten it’s illegal for anyone under 18 to buy tobacco products. It is also illegal to advertise tobacco.
                How are they being influenced then?

                • flux5000

                  In case you don’t realise, young people go into these shops and guess what? They can see all those bright shiny packets…

                • Count Dooku

                  It’s a surprise then that not everyone 18 and over smokes 20 a day.

                • flux5000

                  No, but many are influenced at a young age by what they see on the shelves… But perhaps that is a surprise to you?

                • Jerome Leroy

                  Children are told smoking is bad within the education system from a very young age.

              • Colonel Mustard

                Labour activist school teachers are far more dangerous.

          • Wessex Man

            well it would be for people like you with your roll-ups.

            • Alexandrovich

              Steady on old man! I’m rather partial to Golden Virginia and a packet of reds.

            • flux5000

              Thats your problem, you go blindly making baseless assumptions. I don’t smoke.

    • WatTylersGhost

      Cameron’s policies will be the cause of a Milliband victory – nothing else.

      • Count Dooku

        Given the hand he was dealt, Cameron hasn’t done too poorly. He is in a coalition and has his hands tied.

        • Denis_Cooper

          It was clear long before the election that he wanted to be in that coalition with his hands ostensibly tied.

          • realfish

            How do you work that out?

            • Denis_Cooper

              He was talking about it in the autumn of 2009, that’s how.

        • southerner

          Yawn.

          Yes of course it’s all those nasty lib dems.

          Call Me has been driving the socialist measures all on his own. Gay marriage. Europhilia. Mass immigration. Spending money like there’s no tomorrow. Feeding the quangocracy. Slashing the armed forces. Etc etc etc

          • Count Dooku

            Nothing wrong with Gay marriage. I support it. And I don’t see how you can accuse Cameron of being a Europhile. He’s our most Eurosceptic PM (relatively) since Thatcher.
            I agree on the rest though.

            • southerner

              “He’s our most Eurosceptic PM (relatively) since Thatcher.” Funny.
              So if you agree with the rest, on what basis has Call Me not done too badly. Would love to read about the good bits.

              • Count Dooku

                ~The most meaningful positive reform of our welfare system since the war.
                ~Reorienting education away from the Blob and back to parents and children.
                ~The lowest corp tax rate in the G7. One of the lowest in the G20.
                ~Fastest growing economy in G7.
                ~Increasing personal tax allowance.
                ~Abolishing employer NI for under 21s.
                ~Fastest rate of reduction in unemployment in modern British history.
                ~Raising state pension age.
                ~Scrapping fuel duty escalator.
                ~Privatising Royal Mail
                etc etc etc,

                • southerner

                  Stop cut and pasting from the No 10 website and think for yourself you Camerloon sheep.

                • Count Dooku

                  You asked me for a serious answer. I spent a considerable amount of time thinking about it and gave you a reasoned answer. It now appears that I was wrong to think that you are a serious person and you haven’t bothered to consider the thrust of my argument.
                  At the end of it all, people can disagree on politics, but it is immature and insulting to stoop to personal abuse.

                • Wessex Man

                  Which of course the Tories would never stoop to!

                • southerner

                  “I spent a considerable amount of time thinking about it …”
                  If that is the fruits of a considerable amount of thinking I rest my case.

                • Count Dooku

                  Are you going to actually disagree with anything I’ve written? I guess it’s easier to dodge the points and bleat.

                • Wessex Man

                  Please raise some sensible poinbts!

                • Count Dooku

                  Not sure about your reading comprehension WM. I’ve listed a number of things the govt has done which I like.

                  Now, which of thise do you disagree with? Going by your posting history I doubt you would disagree with much of what I’ve written.

                • Wessex Man

                  phew what a relief!

                • southerner

                  Well this list from CCHQ ranges from the ridiculously hyperbolic (“reorientating education away from the Blob”) to the factually incorrect (we aren’t the fastest growing economy in the G7).

                  Providing a list of micro changes (Fuel duty escalator etc) ignores the fact that Gideon ducked all the big decisions in the macro economy – in fact he didn’t even match Darling’s plan and has instead engineered growth through a combination of sustaining a property bubble, printing money and Call Me Dave’s policy of continued mass immigration.

                  Think about whether this is really a conservative party anymore (clue : it’s not) or whether it is simply a continuation of the socialist dogma that has destroyed this country over the past 30 years.

                • Count Dooku

                  You have assumed i’m a “small c” conservative. I am not. I am extremely right wing economically but very socially liberal. My politics is more in line witht he Davis, Hannan and previously Carswell wing of the party.
                  I completely agree with you that Osborne has not done enough on spending. The “triple lock” on pensions and the NHS ringfence are a disgrace and should never have been implemented in a time where cuts are needed. Raising VAT was also a ridiculous mistake.
                  The reason why he didn’t match the Darling plan or his own 2010 plan though was that the tax side was ridiculously optimistic, especially what happened in the Eurozone in 2010. I will blame Osborne on spending, but tax was out of his control. Also, QE ended two years ago and or the total £375 billion outlay, just £50 billion of that was done under this government.
                  Lastly, the UK has no control over EU migration. They literally cannot change this without leaving the EU, and that wont change for obvious reasons.
                  If you wear a realist you would only castigate the govt for bad things that happened that they could have controlled. Context is everything.

            • Wessex Man

              blimey! I’ve broken my leg falling over with laughter!

              • Count Dooku

                Laughing about what? Again, resorting to abuse does not make you appear any smarter.

                • Wessex Man

                  If you consider that abuse you really should stay in away from the big bad world!

                • Jerome Leroy

                  “I spent a considerable amount of time thinking about it …”
                  If that is the fruits of a considerable amount of thinking I rest my case.

                  Under lefty PC laws, that is abuse.

                  Disagree? explain.

                • Wessex Man

                  I know, I know I plead guilty to winding up someone far to the left of Lenin!

                • Jerome Leroy

                  Can’t say I haven’t enjoyed it, me and flux500 are very good friends.

    • Clotsworth

      antics?

      ” I will never forgive “…the words of a foolish, self centred unusually spiteful little girl, or perhaps of the average Spectator subscriber

      • Count Dooku

        Then you surely set the standard for the bottom.

    • Denis_Cooper

      Oh, do shut up. If there’s a Labour government, as there very probably will be, the responsibility for that will lie with the crap Tory party not with UKIP.

      • flux5000

        Don’t be so sure of a Labour win next GE, if Scotland goes yes the landscape will be very different.

        • Alexandrovich

          So, given all the complexity and lead-in-time, independence will all be sorted by next May? You’re whistling in the dark, Hooky.

          • flux5000

            It will still have a huge effect on peoples voting intentions.

            • Inverted Meniscus

              But they won’t be voting for socialism lad.

        • Denis_Cooper

          Well, whether it’s yes or no Scotland will still be part of the UK in May 2015 and will still elect MPs.

          • flux5000

            The effect on peoples voting intentions will be huge.

            • Denis_Cooper

              I don’t think there’s any way of predicting what the effect would be or whether it would be huge or minor.

      • Count Dooku

        You seem very relaxed about the possibility of a Labour government.

        Miliband will destroy this country. Jost look accross the Channel at France.

        I would go as far as to say it is unpatriotic to vote UKIP in a Tory marginal

        • firgo

          Since the leader of the Tory party has stated that he wants us to remain in the EU and therefore be ruled from Brussels, it is fair to say that it is unpatriotic to vote Tory.

          • realfish

            He has said that he would prefer to remain in a reformed EU – a position held by the majority of the population according to opinion polls.

            • Denis_Cooper

              A “reformed” EU in which we were still ruled from Brussels.

            • Alexandrovich

              Problem is, none of us knows what those reforms are.

          • Count Dooku

            Well there will be a referendum if the Tories get a majority and Cameron would have only one vote.
            A labour govy will not offer that.

            • Denis_Cooper

              Cameron would only have one vote, plus all the resources of government at his disposal to support his case.

              • Count Dooku

                Cameron has all the resources of Govt now and he’s behind Labour in the polls. Same with Salmond.

                At the end of the day, if there’s a referendum the people will decide.

                Barring any massive changes in policy, I will be voting Tory next year and voting to leave the EU if we get a referendum. Regardless of what Cameron spins.

            • Wessex Man

              Did you not listen to the reasons that he left the tired old tory party?

        • flux5000

          Looks like the tories are doing a great job of it from where I am standing, unless of course you think all this poverty, all these food banks etc, are a good thing?

          • Wessex Man

            You are so disillusioned why not get off over to the Socialist Republic of France and get your food form one of their foodbanks?

            • Colonel Mustard

              Sounds more like North Korea might suit better.

          • Jerome Leroy

            LOL more fear mongering from you, AGAIN.

            I keep finding you adopting the same tactics.

            I’m on benefits and I have yet to be sanctioned because I’m actually looking for work, and not doing my job searches half heartedly.(A lot of cases to argue against, but by in large what I say is true, job centres / works programme have to check to see if you applied for a job and if found out, you will get sanctioned)

            Because of these facts must I be a Labour voter? I’ve seen the food bank queues in Camden, they aren’t very large, and everyone gets food.

        • Denis_Cooper

          Personally I’m not “relaxed” about the prospect of either a crap Labour government or a crap Tory government, or for that matter some crap coalition involving the LibDems with one or the other. I’d rather that all three of your rubbish parties just disappeared. However I am not the only person with a view and a vote and it is the opinion polls which say that the next government will probably be a Labour government. As for your suggestion that it would be “unpatriotic” to vote UKIP in a Tory marginal or anywhere else, if I hadn’t already decided long ago that I will never again even lend my vote to your unpatriotic anti-democratic corrupt party then by saying that you would have just convinced me to take that position.

          • Count Dooku

            I didn’t say “… or anywhere else”, those are your own words. I’m a pragmatist at the end of the day. Cameron has the right of his party to keep an eye out on him and Tory MPs are extremely rebelious.
            No such luch with Ed in No. 10.

            • Wessex Man

              Who gives a monkeys Tory/Lib?lab they are all the same!

    • ArchiePonsonby

      So vote UKIP!

  • George Smiley

    Panic in the Tory ranks? Wouldn’t surprise me if more were to follow.

    • Tony_E

      It would surprise me. I’m still not convinced that there will be any UKIP MPs in May 2015.

      Lots of reasons left to vote Conservative – the biggest one being Ed Miliband, who every right minded ‘c’onservative/economic liberal should be absolutely terrified of as PM.

      • flux5000

        Tory/ukip nutjobs, none of them are fit for purpose. With regard to Labour/Milliband, they are just redtories.

        • Tony_E

          If they were, I wouldn’t be so worried. I guarantee you that Miliband still thinks Hollande has failed because he didn’t go far enough.

          • Wessex Man

            I just hope you two and your friends don’t split our vote.

            • flux5000

              No chance of that, I would never vote for the three right wing parties we have, con/libdem/labour.

              • Wessex Man

                off to France you go tthen!

              • Inverted Meniscus

                Emigrate to France then lad because there are plenty of socialist nutters to make you feel at home there. Their economy is going up in flames and Hollande an the other socialist nutters are loving it.

                • flux5000

                  Obviously you don’t know what socialism is, it certainly is not what they have in France, lad.

          • flux5000

            Miliband is just another corporate shill.

        • Colonel Mustard

          Labour/Milliband (Son of Communist) red tories? And you sneer at the “far right”!

          What are you then – SWP or UAF?

          Or water melon?

          • ThinkerStinker

            What ever he is, he’s a Loony Lefty!

            • flux5000

              What is so loony about not wanting to see the NHS scrapped, as the UKIP MEP Paul Nuttall would like to see?
              Or are you another one of those loonies that want see the end of the NHS?

              • ThinkerStinker

                It is UKIP policy to save the NHS. It is opposed to the pernicious EU/US TTIP. As well as privatization through the back door via PFI’s which was a Labour government policy.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Socialist nutter I think.

          • flux5000

            So can I take it you are exactly like your father and hold all of his political views?
            What a stupid comment, communism is not socialism.

          • flux5000

            Typical rightie, jump out with the insults because you ran out of idea’s.

      • ToryVoter

        So the biggest reason for voting Conservative is to try to keep Miliband out? Oh, for the days when the best reason was our own leader and her policies!

      • White Rose

        The head bangers just don’t care. They would rather see the country utterly destroyed under Milliband’s true, and frightening socialism just to prove their point.

        • Paul Hughes

          Headbangers? Why so ad hominem?

          Cameron has been a huge disappointment and I believed in him once. I gave the coalition a fair chance. I don’t believe I’m a headbanger.

          Neither do I believe Cameron anymore. Given a tory government I don’t think he’d have done very much differently.

          2009-10 was an exciting time. There were so many ideas being floated. few have even been attempted.

          I’m afraid that Cameron has failed on practically every one of the promises he made – even as leader of a coalition.

          The reason I regret Carswell’s defection is that it may end up with his political extinction. We need more MPs like him, not fewer.

          Miliband and Cameron. Both take us down the same road. Only the speed differs.

          • flux5000

            Yes, Cameron said “no top down reorganization of the NHS”, he was right in one way, he is just selling the whole lot off.
            Can I take it you think that is a good idea?

    • GUBU

      Doubtful, I would suggest.

      Mr Carswell is very much someone with a very specific, individual viewpoint, as anyone who has read or listened to him would attest.

      Because of that, he would sit somewhat awkwardly in whatever party he’s in, which raises the question of (a) what if anything he has been offered in the way of influence on UKIP policy going towards the next general election and (b) how his relationship with UKIP will develop if it, like the Conservative party, fails to live up to his exacting expectations.

      • Wessex Man

        Ukip policy has already been drawn up and will be fully available at our Conference in September!

        • GUBU

          Just in time for Mr Carswell to dissent from large sections of it…

          • Wessex Man

            Hur hur hu……………………

        • flux5000

          If UKIP were a serious political party they would already have their core policies available. Instead all we hear are vague nonsense about the future.

  • Mark McIntyre

    Nice one – JDWC.
    Question, as an MP – does this put him above Farage ? – in the political rankings ? !

  • Blindsideflanker

    I was wrong there is odd person in the Commons who has integrity. Not that he is joining UKIP, but that he is going to put his decision to the people.

    He does blow Cameron’s fake EU renegotiating strategy out the water.

    • Tony_E

      He’s resigned his seat?

      • Blindsideflanker

        That is what he has stated.

        • Tony_E

          Hats off to the guy then.

          However, it does create a great deal of expense, and I remember the criticism that David Davis received when he resigned his seat over a piece of legislation.

          I wonder if he will win it?

          • Denis_Cooper

            Well, it will cost about £3 per constituent going by the £113 million cost of the 2010 general election. Some of them might think that was “a great deal” of expense, especially as it will have to be repeated six or seven months later, but others will see it as a small price for democracy.

            • Wessex Man

              It’s a very very small price to pay for democracy, hopefully by his actions he encourage the many other Tory MPs deeply dissatisfied with this soundbite government of no substance to follow.

              The Dam has it’s first crack, bye bye Cameron!

            • Michael Simpson

              Public funding, as in Germany, of political parties to pull them back from the excesses and over influence of finance and unions would be also be small price to pay for democracy. I presume you agree?

              • Wessex Man

                I don’t agree sorry.

                • flux5000

                  So you are in favor of corporations paying off Government ministers and MP’s with a promise of a job on a board of directors somewhere?
                  Wake up, money is killing democracy in the UK, to say it isn’t means you have no clue.

          • monty61

            It does have the smack of Davis’s untimely descent into obscurity. However Carswell has less to lose and a lot more – potentially – to gain by this manouvre. Alex Massie has it right though in the other blog, this is very selfish on Carswell’s part in terms of timing. And almost certainly driven more by polling than by principle.

    • George Smiley

      Yes, whatever one may think of his politics, his decision to trigger by-election is admirable.

      • telemachus

        Admirable for all those racists who hover at the Tory Right and who have found their natural home in a Party that drags billboards round immigrant communities

        • Adam Carter

          Admirable in a number of ways.
          One of which is the way he referred to his boss, i.e. the voters.

          • telemachus

            Indeed
            And the voters are not only pig sick of the Coalition but a majority have the moral fabric of the Nation at heart and find UKIP abhorrent

            • Inverted Meniscus

              But don’t want Fascist Labour either lad.

              • flux5000

                How old are you? Lad? Fact is con/libdem/labour/ukip are all corporate fascists.

            • flux5000

              Agreed.

        • Adam Carter

          Hello tele.
          I’ve been away for a few days.
          It seems clear to me that the ‘Asians’ in Rotheram who were involved in the sexual grooming criomes were racists. They were preying on white girls.
          Those officials who did not act to deal with these criminals were racists. They acted differently to the ‘Asians’ than they would have to whites.
          I haven’t been able to read comments lately.
          Can you direct me to your comments denouncing these racists, and where you make it clear that to refer to these criminals as ‘Asians’ is a deliberate obfuscation and a slur on most Asians.

          • telemachus

            Indeed
            And these criminals and racists are to be hunted down and punished
            I counsel you however to,read the splendid article in G2 yesterday which traces similar events in East London in the 80’s by white males who were born in the East End and probably descended from families involved in Cable Street

    • wobble

      “Are we not entertained “

  • Martin Adamson

    Good for him! An honest politician, at least there is still one left in Britain. I am sure he will have no problems getting re-elected, he seems to have put time and effort into building up his constituency support.

    • flux5000

      Honest? The man is financially sorted for the rest of his life, it wouldn’t matter if he won or not, the fact is this is a stunt from a far right nut job. He is going to the right party for him…

      • Martin Adamson

        Well, if he is financially secure then surely this is an argument to have more MPs who do not depend on being an MP as their sole source of income. MPs who are desperately clinging on in the hope of getting a pension are not going to rock the boat, are they?

        • flux5000

          Nor will people rock the boat when they have a lobbyist whispering in their ear about a post on the board etc etc…
          They are vastly overpaid and should not be allowed other business interests whilst being an MP.

      • Wessex Man

        theres always one!

        • flux5000

          Yes, one with sense, glad you pointed that out.

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