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Who are Britain’s stupidest jihadis?

10 July 2014

1:41 PM

10 July 2014

1:41 PM

You have to laugh. Two men who’ve admitted to trying to go abroad to fight jihad had to buy copies of Islam for Dummies and The Koran for Dummies before their glorious mission. Shouldn’t the publishers cash in by publishing a Jihad for Dummies? It would sell like hotcakes.

The young chaps, Yusuf Sarwar and Mohammed Ahmed, are off to jail for a while, but to paraphrase Bill Hicks, I don’t think we’ve lost any cancer curers here.

But they are far from being Britain’s stupidest jihadis. This country, which is at the cutting edge of social trends in pioneering the Reverse Flynn Effect, seems to produce an enormous number of very thick Islamists. I know there are some dunces in the world of jihad, such as the suicide bomb instructor in Iraq who accidentally killed his entire class, but Britain must be a world leader.

There was the Birmingham gang convicted last year, the leader of which, Irfan Naseer aka ‘Chubbs’, wrote on his Friends Reunited Page, ‘Oh yah i’m also a terrorist hahahaha’. Chubbs, being British, was also grossly obese, weighing a hefty 23 stone, so presumably al-Qaeda would have had to invent a special new XXL suicide belt for him.

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His co-conspirator Ashik Ali was caught on microphone telling his wife that they were like the Four Lions but ‘one man short’. Indeed – the group also bought the bomb-making materials on eBay under the username ‘terrorshop’. Perhaps the funniest thing is that, having raised £14,500 by fraud, they then lost £9,000 on currency speculation on the euro.

Or there were the July 21 bombers, who tried, and failed, to kill dozens of people on the underground largely because the brains of the operation, Muktar Said Ibrahim, who got an F in maths at his London comprehensive, screwed up the formula involved in making the bomb.

Then there was another Brum gang who tried to ignite some sort of Ulster-style war by attacking an English Defence League rally, but turned up 2 hours late. There but for the grace of God and the stupidity of man.

And let’s not forget Richard Reid, the shoe bomber who tried to blow up an aeroplane with some matches, it never occurred to him that he might be better off using the toilet and maybe a lighter. Or there was the Underpants bomber, London University student Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who attempted to down a plane on the way to Detroit, only for his pants to burst in flames. Genius.

There is even a Northern Irish jihadi now, Eamon Bradley from Derry, who turned his back on a life of drugs and crime when he found God, and credits Islam with saving his life; although as he’s in the middle of an insane holy war, I imagine his life expectancy would have been higher if he’d stayed in Derry taking acid. I know religion can rescue people from drugs but couldn’t he have found Zen Buddhism or something?

Still, as much as the jihadis live a life of internecine violence and clannish grudge-bearing, are they really prepared for the Irish?

Of course these people are only funny as long as they continue to screw up, and I won’t be laughing when one of their shinbones lands in my face on the Tube. But as much as radical Islam is a deadly threat, my main feeling towards some of the young and not very intelligent men who latch on to this fantasy is pity. Although a minority are spoilt rich kids with nothing better to do, most are confused and angry products of globalisation, their parents having been brought over to take low-paid and low-skilled jobs in countries that were totally alien to them and troubling for their kids; a world offering too many confusing and contradictory messages about how to live. No wonder they latch onto the comfort of certainty offered by holy war.

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Show comments
  • Thomas J. Hennigan

    Someone outght to buy of copies of Islam for Dummies and the Qu´ran for Dummies and send them to David Cameron, the rest of the MPs and other Brits who are in high places and seem to be clueless about Islam and its totalitarian political agenda, Mahommad and the massacres whe carried out against Jews and Christians and how he is considered by muslims the most perfect human bieng. They could also learn what “takyia” is, that is “holy deception”, thanks to which various muslim groups around the world make softie condemnations of ISIS etc.
    The company should also put out Sharia for Dummies” and have it sent to all those in high places so that they can learn what is involved in allowing creeping sharia in the UK.
    Hopefully some day England will again become John Bull and quit its wimpish ways in relation to the jhadi threat or else, enslave itself to sharia, The danger is a lot worse than Nazism and the reaction seems to be that of Chamerlain who retuned from Munich to London proclaiming that he had achieved “peace in our time”, and holding up a piece of paper signed by Hitler. There doesn’t seem to be any Churchill in waiting in present day Britian as it is about to be swallowed up by Islam and sharia. Islam has been in the business of jihad for 1400 years and has killed some 270 million people in the process. Being nice and gentlemanly to them is not going to stop them.

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    A lot of these Jihadists seem to be real misfits, and quite a few seem to have had, criminal backgrounds, before they became serious about Islam.

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    It is true, that at one time, the Islamic world, made impressive, civilizational contributions. however they still, don’t compare with the west. who have been outstripping the Islamic world now for hundreds of years. The sheer volume of scientific, knowledge, is exploding every year, and none of it, is coming out of the Islamic world. when was the last, an important scientific development was attributed to a Muslim country?. I can’t remember any.

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    Militant Islam seems to specialize in churning out, mentally unbalanced young men, with homicidal fantasies.

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    An even better title would be ” the idiots guide to Jihad”.

  • Adrian Wainer

    ” their parents having been brought over to take low-paid and low-skilled jobs in countries that were totally alien to them and troubling for their kids; a world offering too many confusing and contradictory messages about how to live. No wonder they latch onto the comfort of certainty offered by holy war. “,.

    Always somebody’s else’s fault, isn’t it. Have you given consideration Mr West to the possibility they are just scumbags.

  • First L

    From the link about Eamon Bradley

    “Eamon said: “I used to like doing what was wrong and I would say to my friends that there was no God. I remember once when I was putting my clothes out on the line, it started to rain so I brought them in. But the rain stopped so I brought them back out again, and then it rained again.

    And I remember shaking my fist in the sky at my Lord in rage saying some things which I would not repeat again.”

    Yes – he converted to Islam because of a failure to watch the weather forecast.

    I’m not sure whether dumb people with guns is a worse threat than intelligent people with guns.

    • http://www.nrk.no/ Birger Skruddusvingen

      “Yes – he converted to Islam because of a failure to watch the weather forecast.”

      I guess the weather is pretty unpredictable in Northern Ireland.

  • liam

    The article was mildy amusing until I got to the last paragraph and realised someone from the Guardian (or a university Sociology Department somewhere) must have infiltrated and inserted a couple of sentences of their own:

    “Although a minority are spoilt rich kids with nothing better to do, most are confused and angry products of globalisation, their parents having been brought over to take low-paid and low-skilled jobs in countries that were totally alien to them and troubling for their kids; a world offering too many confusing and contradictory messages about how to live.”

    It sounds like just the type of excuse people come up with when they’re “offering a counter-imperialist anti-racist narrative to the dominant Islamophobic discourse which results exclusion, alienation and cognitive dissonance etc. etc.”

    • Adrian Wainer

      Or Ed West is a f8cking w8nker himself?

    • http://www.nrk.no/ Birger Skruddusvingen

      “It sounds like just the type of excuse people come up with when” etc.

      Or when they want to try to get something published…

  • itbeso

    “most are confused and angry products of globalisation”

    Third generation and having nine times out of 10 received a good education they do this. Maybe it’s Islam not globalisation hmm? Don’t forget the converts, what excuse you going for there?

    • http://www.nrk.no/ Birger Skruddusvingen

      “Maybe it’s Islam not globalisation hmm?”

      Or maybe it’s both.
      Personally, I can’t stand either.

  • Gwangi

    Perhaps the stupidest jihadis of all are the black ones – often called Trevor or Keith or Leroy or Winston – who are usually from Jamaican stock and who claim that they are rejecting their slave master’s names and religion in favour of Islam.

    Which is just diddly and tickety-boo – except that the Arab slave traders were slaving in Africa 1000 years before white Europeans (and still are) and the reason why blacks in African and the north Africans are Muslim at all is because Muslim invaders enslaved the peoples there are gave them a choice: convert to Islam of lose your head!
    I think blacks are a bit dim in this respect because they’ve watched Roots and Kunte Kinte is (because his ancestors were forcibly converted) Muslim. But what were the blacks before they were forced to be Muslim or Christian? Bloodythirsty brutal cannibals?

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      slavery in islam doesn’t have the same connotations; terms of protection, relationship with the owner (etc) are different. The Mamluks were slaves; they were also the elite cavalry of the the Egyptian caliphate, and they founded an Egyptian dynasty of their own.

      What were the whites before they were forced to be muslim or christian? Bloodthirsty brutal cannibals?

      • http://www.nrk.no/ Birger Skruddusvingen

        “What were the whites before they were forced to be muslim or christian? Bloodthirsty brutal cannibals?”

        I don’t think so.

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          Some of them were, according to Roman and Christian geographers.

          • http://www.nrk.no/ Birger Skruddusvingen

            “Some of them were”

            Yeah. And some of them were left-handed, I suppose.

            To describe them that way (“Bloodthirsty brutal cannibals”), I think that at least roughly 50 % of them ought to fit that description. Preferably way bigger share. Unless I’m badly informed, cannibalism occured very rarely among our ancestors.

            • Jeffrey Vernon

              Agreed. Same is true of blacks in pre-islamic Africa

    • http://www.nrk.no/ Birger Skruddusvingen

      “the reason why blacks in African and the north Africans are Muslim at all is because Muslim invaders enslaved the peoples there are gave them a choice: convert to Islam of lose your head!”

      And now there are prospects that we are going to be given more or less the same choice…

  • Gwangi

    Excellent and spot on! Four Lions is a classic film, and precisely reflects the idiocy of young Muslim men in northern English towns loving what British culture gives them (TV, pop music, play stations) but easily led to believe a 7th century backwards-looking religion will give them an identity and a future (and a shag)…

    • Liz

      Got your finger on the pulse of Northern Muslims, hmm?

  • wudyermucuss

    Enforced mass immigration caused the problem.
    Enforced mass repatriation will solve it.

  • GraveDave

    Same confused messages go out to the young, white, ethnic Britons. It’s called Diversity and Multiculturalism. Only when it came to the EDL and their type of culture clash the authorities didn’t mess about too long did they.
    And all they ever carried were flags.

  • jesseventura2

    And still these low life uneducated vermin are being allowed entry to UK.

    • http://www.nrk.no/ Birger Skruddusvingen

      “And still these low life uneducated vermin are being allowed entry to UK.”

      So? If they werent’t allowed entry, they’d probably enter anyway…

  • IainRMuir

    “Chubbs, being British, was also grossly obese, weighing a hefty 23
    stone, so presumably al-Qaeda would have had to invent a special new XXL
    suicide belt for him.”

    Or an exploding gastric band on the NHS?

    • DonnaTxx

      Yes, gastric bands on the NHS, but fit it around their necks!

      • Jeffrey Vernon

        But that would be detectable…or am I missing the point?

  • oldwatcher

    All them with beards.

  • PaulStott

    Eamon Bradley really needs to take a slightly better name. As al-Brittani has been taken by other fighters, and hardly fits with growing up on a Republican estate in Derry, may I suggest Eamon al-Six Counties? Or better still Eamon al-Derry/Londonderry?

  • Stormbringer

    Who are Britain’s stupidest jihadis?

    Prince Charles, George Galloway, Owen Jones, Glenn Greenwald, Madeline Buntin, Seamus Milne and every other useful idiot apologist for utter evil.

    They may not take up arms for Islam but in their cynical, self-serving excuses for the inexcusable and feeble justifications for the unjustifiable they are undoubtedly the stupidest jihadis in our midst.

    • Shazza

      Toss in the BBC/Labour Party/Tories/LibDems/MSM………..

    • Weaver

      Polly Toynbee? Yasmin Alibhai-Brown?

      Someone should sit the latter down and ask her if, as a good Muslim, she believes Mohammed flew to heaven on a horse.

      • Jeffrey Vernon

        Ask the Archbishop of Canterbury if he believes that Jesus was born of a virgin, was tempted by Satan, turned water into wine, or rose from the dead. With most religions there’s a stout public answer (‘Of course I believe it!’) and a private esoteric answer (‘it’s not literally true, but the promise of the faith is the restoration of Israel for the believers’).

        The Koran says only that Mohamed went ‘on a night journey’ to a distant mosque. All the later accretions about winged horses and heaven and Gabriel are like the snowy christmas traditions that northern christians stlll enjoy so much.

        • Weaver

          Indeed. I know Yasmin Alibhai-Brown doesn’t believe it. I just want to see her squirm and recite the official version, on pain of the wrath of her co-religionists.

          I can’t imagine an Anglican being stabbed for announcing something like “I see Jesus as a symbol“. I can certainly imagine poor Ms. Alibhai-Brown getting stabbed for announcing her esoteric private answer, and she knows it too.

          (Pedantically, The Koran says, literally, “The Furthest Mosque”. Not “a distant mosque”. And, respectfully, the Hadiths are effectively core texts and catechism for the relevant schools, not “window dressing” or apocrypha.)

  • Suriani

    The militants who run them know how stupid they are; despite in certain cases having degrees. They tend to be either converts, ex-rehab, loners or socially awkward types. They are consequently in the great Islamist plan “expendable”. The promise of glorious martyrdom and heavenly reward makes the whole thing even more cynical and cruel.

  • andy_gill

    Perhaps we should buy every government minister a copy of Immigration for Dummies. They obviously haven’t made the connection between importing thousands of Muslims from backward cesspits around the world, and the anger of the British population.

  • Bonkim

    That is no surprise. This lot is from the lower classes in their countries of origin. By and large if they had any brains they would have laughed at the whole Jihad enterprise.

  • Mid_Century_Modern

    The last paragraph was a cop out. Ugh.

  • Porkys2istan

    Unfortunately, we have to succeed EVERY time to stay safe, while these jihadist knuckleheads only have to be successful ONCE to kill innocents.

  • AndrewMelville

    Let ’em go by all means – just don’t let ’em back in the country, whether British born or foreign.

    Then up the ante by encouraging the beggars to go. This is volume game; let’s win at it.

    Problem solved: next one please.

    • Damaris Tighe

      ECHR I’m afraid. We’re hamstrung by foreign legislation.

      • AndrewMelville

        Another problem. Perfect let’s get at it.

        Ignore the ECHR. Return all its mail marked “Subservient Britain No Longer Lives Here – Return to Sender.”

        Unless the EU rustles up an army, navy and air force, that should be the end of the matter.

        Problem solved: next one please.

        • Damaris Tighe

          I agree. I don’t know why we bother with all this rubbish. But our rulers take it seriously.

          • AndrewMelville

            As the poet said,

            “For aa that an’ aa that,
            It’s coming yet for aa that
            That man tae man the warld o’er
            Shall ignore the ECHR for aa that.”

            • Damaris Tighe

              yer wot?

        • g1lgam3sh

          We’re not quite there yet…the moment when Albion goes ‘hang on a minute’…

          • AndrewMelville

            It is insane how we have battened on to Europe. It is as if a chap who lived in a mansion said to himself, “Why don’t I try living down in the old potting shed near the tip with the tramps for a bit.”

            I agree with you, but the day will come.

    • pablo58

      Agree with the first sentence, but the BEGGARS? Haven’t they fallen on hard enough times as it is? Leave ’em alone you wrong’un!

      • AndrewMelville

        Beggars = pet name for the jihadis.

        But you might be on to something. Deport the beggars too!

  • jack

    Someone told me that the original comic manual for jihadists lies somewhere near the moon and a place called heaven.

    Neil or Buzz were never able to verify such a theory…..

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    “Pay close attention because I`m only going to show you this once.”

    • Porkys2istan

      Best last words ever.

      (From the bomb maker who blew up his whole class and himself.)

  • Guest

    Britain’s stupidest jihadis are not muslim.
    Britain’s stupidest jihadis are the sea of useful idiots, who still appease and defend the worst humanity is seeing today. They are the enablers, the traitors, the apologists. They can be found everywhere, from the Houses of Parliament, to major broadcasting networks, from dozens of ignorant and cowardly journalists, to seas of bleedin’heart lefties.

    They are the one that need to be shut up.
    And after that, we can start to clean house.

  • bobby_r

    Eamon Bradley from where? Londonderry?

    • global city

      or possibly Derry-Londonderry!

      • liam

        or more hideously Al-Madinat-ul-Derry-Londonderry

        !مرحبا في المدينة الدري-لنداندري

        • global city

          Yes.

          ‘Celebrating Sectarianism!’

  • Hexhamgeezer

    Funny how our indigenous ‘confused and angry products of globalisation’ don’t get inspired to saw heads off.

    • Damaris Tighe

      They didn’t because they’re not muslims.

    • Kitty MLB

      Indeed, our own still value humanity. Why are some still making an excuse
      for the offspring of those who follow a barbaric cult . Their parents fill them with hate and loathing and others say its because of globalisation, what rubbish.

  • Alex

    Like others, I quite enjoyed this until the sudden ludicrous attempt to shoehorn in the anti-globalisation agenda.
    Is this the same globalisation that has bought billions out of poverty, that has opened up access to information, that has dramatically reduced world GINI?
    Did globalisation cause other extremist religious violence, such as the Crusades, through some bizarre accident with a time machine?

    • Damaris Tighe

      Globalisation brought members of that extreme religion over here.

      • Adam

        *rolls eyes*

        • Damaris Tighe

          Well what else did, a magic carpet?

          • Alex

            Er, planes, boats, trains …

            • Damaris Tighe

              Planes, boats & trains have made globalisaton possible. Before modern forms of transport it just wasn’t possible for a government to say ‘let’s bring in several thousand people from across the globe to man our factories’.

              • Adam

                Yes and nutmeg was really hard to come by, much
                to the detriment of my custard tart.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  You’re comparing nutmeg with the space & speed needed to transport thousands of people?

              • Alex

                We had a system of moving people around the globe to man factories; it was called slavery. We abolished it.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Yes, but when you offer to pay people well for their labour of course they’ll up sticks & travel round the globe if we have open borders.

                • Adam

                  Yes and an incredibly small percentage of those are maniacs.

                  Not sure that’s a compelling reason to revert to the middle-ages…

                • Damaris Tighe

                  It’s a 7th century religion that can’t change. And a frighteningly large percentage are maniacs, in thought if not in deed. I hold no brief for Islam.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Its not a religion, just a ideology. That just happens to use religion as a cloak to hide behind whilst they murder in the name of God.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Yes indeed.

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  Excuse me, Damaris. I only wrote this to find out if ANYTHING AT ALL that I write with the name Mohammed in it is going to be deleted by Spectator blogs. EDIT: Nope, this has gone up online. I wonder why my other posts were blocked?

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Never had any problems with the name in any of its spellings!

                • Alex

                  I did reply, but the Spectator deleted it; I think because I used the word starting with ‘h’, ending with ‘ll’ and rhyming with bell. It wasn’t in any way an offensive usage.
                  Considering what some people say on here that’s ludicrous.

          • Adam

            I do hope “Globalisation for Dummies” features on your Amazon wish list…

      • mightymark

        You forget we have a number of home grown Jihadis. if you ask me who I fear more — some old boy who came from Pakistan in the early 60s or one of these converts with their proverbial “zeal” I know which it would be – heres a clue – its not the Pakistani.

        • Damaris Tighe

          Agreed. Being a ‘born again’ muslim means taking the Koran seriously, & we know what that means.

        • http://www.nrk.no/ Birger Skruddusvingen

          “if you ask me who I fear more” etc.

          Then perhaps the grandchildren of that “some old boy” is the worst…

      • Weaver

        I think we need to be a bit more careful over our definition of “Globalism”. I’m not sure immigration is a necessary part of it.

        • Damaris Tighe

          Yes, after people I normally agree with came down on me like a ton of bricks I realised that we might not be talking about the same thing! By ‘globalisation’ I mean turning nations into quasi-corporate entities in a global marketplace, where populations are interchangable economic units.

    • cyrusthevirus

      The Crusades was a perfectly reasonable fightback against four centuries of vile Islamic conquest oppression and slavery!Pity it was ultimately a failure!

    • http://www.nrk.no/ Birger Skruddusvingen

      “Is this the same globalisation that” etc.

      Yes. Everything has it’s “pros” and “cons”. It seems to me that when it comes to globalisation, the “cons” far outweights the “pros”.

      “Did globalisation cause other” etc.

      Since when are the Crusades an example of “extremist religious violence”?

  • swatnan

    Good article. Maybe they’ve been reading: ‘Bombmaking for Thickos’.
    The fact is these islamofacists are the rejects of Society. Somewhere along the line they experienced rejection and decided to take it out on all of Society, instead of going to Customer Complaints.

  • global city

    good article, until the last paragraph or so…then it got all arsey and sort of left wing guardian.

    • Damaris Tighe

      I don’t understand why you dislike Ed’s last paragraph. It’s not enough to rage & poke fun at these people. It’s also important to analyse the phenomenon. I think it’s very sound to argue that when you import third world people there’s bound to be culture-shock reaching down the generations. This is something that the political class, seeing them as mere units of labour in a global market, didn’t anticipate.

      • global city

        He fell into the ‘poor and angry’ mantra, instead of the dumb but educated reality of the situation.

        ‘Angry’ is also a lefty dogwhistle for us to start looking for reasons why WE have made them angry.

        • Damaris Tighe

          Yes, I agree with that. Most of them are well-educated with good careers ahead of them. I’m not excusing the choice they made.

  • dado_trunking

    Richard Gere did more for western civilisation than any middle aged bloke could ever admit. If Jolie is a Dame, why is that chap not a Knight?

    • Damaris Tighe

      You’ve lost me here dado …

  • post_x_it

    About a fortnight ago the Today Programme did a vox pop among ‘angry young muslim men’ hanging around in Bradford. They responded with a lengthy, confused rant about how it’s not right that the US is fighting and killing muslims in Syria, and they understand why people want to go to Syria to help get the Americans out.

    • Alexsandr

      i heard that. they were angry muslims were suffering. but showed a complete lack of understanding it was muslim v muslim -i.e she-ite v sunni.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Sunnis ususally don’t see shiites as muslim.

        • post_x_it

          That’s hardly the point. Britain’s finest “angry young Muslims” think that the war in Syria is one of Islam vs. America. It’s most certainly not that, whichever way you look at it. It’s either a case of deliberate misinformation by their imams and “community leaders”, or lack of brain power to understand the situation.

          • The Buck is back

            Well you do know that its been reported that in bradford 70% plus of Pakistani muslims are in co sangiunous marriges. The inbreeding makes our royal family look like mongrels

  • brossen99

    http://nollyprott.wordpress.com/2014/07/07/ed-milibands-dad/

    Just a diversion from the above and you can’t trust any Catholics either which is why Blair converted !

    http://nollyprott.wordpress.com/2013/04/04/the-corporate-nazi-arch-plan-for-the-uk-agenda-21/

    Had John Major on Lloyds names and they had made Leon Brittan EU commissioner and like Heath was probably blackmailed on child abuse to join the EU in the first place and Thatcher did her best to limit the damage but it was the EU 8 hour driving day which closed most of Scottish industry ( which Callaghan could probably vetoed then but for the Unions ) and their suppliers in the north west which the SNP are using as an excuse to vote Yes to independence to steal our Oil and allow Wall St to turn us into Greece and privatise any worthwhile assets the UK has left at knock down prices just so we can keep the population fed !

    http://nollyprott.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/arch-plan-agenda-21-update/

    See

    http://nollyprott.wordpress.com/2014/06/12/is-ids-a-mrs-wilberforce/

  • allymax bruce

    ‘Who are Britain’s stupidest jihadis?’

    Rod Liddle?

    • Kitty MLB

      Dear Ally, You have made me laugh as usual, who says the Scots don’t
      do humour. I think Roddy’s large masculine frame and mop of blonde hair
      would stick out a mile in a burkha ( maybe not the hair though)
      I think dressing Rod up like a Japanese fire dancer might be more suitable and
      he may enjoy it.

      • allymax bruce

        I think he does; I’d like to ‘interview’ Rod about his fixation for dressing-up. Who does he think he is, Mr Benn?

  • Mark

    Amusing, until the last few sentences. Which generation are the young who are getting angry now? Third, fourth or even more than that? What exactly were the absolute demographics of all who have either perpetrated terrorism here, or been thwarted in attempts? I won’t go with those last few sentences unless you can prove most were born to parents who came from abroad.

  • John Dalton

    Ed – you think this article is funny but your fear and cowardice shine through. These people are scum and they should be shown no mercy. Will you still be tip toe-ing around them with jokes when they get one of your family??

    • Andy

      Some of them should get an appointment with the hangman.

  • WatTylersGhost

    “most are confused and angry products of globalisation”
    No they are not, they are simply angry, hateful Muslims.

    • Damaris Tighe

      The two things are not incompatible. When you ship immigrant labour from the third world over here there is a culture clash down the generations. If they have a ready-made aggressive religion like Islam it provides an outlet. Which is to say, treating people as mere units of labour in a globalised market, & importing them without thinking about culture, is a very bad idea.

      • Alex

        So they were ‘shipped’, ‘imported’? At gunpoint and in chains presumably? Was there no free-will involved?
        Please provide your evidence for this remarkable claim.

        • Damaris Tighe

          They were induced with offers of a better lifestyle. Hard for people living in Pakistan & Bangladesh to resist.

          • Alex

            And that made them terrorists?
            Nope, still don’t get it.

            • Alex

              Of course what globalisation really means is moving activities to lower-cost countries, rather than moving people to richer countries. Therefore making poorer countries richer. Which is what we can see. Hence plunging GINI. So globalisation will reduce the thing that you are blaming.

              • Damaris Tighe

                In practice globalisation has also meant the importation of cheap foreign labour to the UK, undercutting native labour. Globalisation only sees units of labour, not the cultural & social consequences.

                • Alex

                  I’m fascinated that you keep using the word imported. These are people, not passive objects.
                  We will just need to agree to disagree on this topic.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  it’s shorthand for ‘encouraged to come here’.

            • Damaris Tighe

              As Ed explains, their kids are caught between the two very different cultures. If they decide for their parents’ culture they over-compensate & choose a very extreme, & evil, version of it. I’m in no way defending the choice.

              • Mark

                You’re pushing the point that the young who are turning to radicalisation are the offspring of immigrants not born here. This was the part of the article I didn’t agree with, in terms of no proof of that. These young people are perhaps 3rd generation, with their parents born here and who have mostly been getting on with life. I very much doubt the reason is dissaffected parents with now-confused kids. It’s far too much of a generalisation to make and demands scrutiny if not proof.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  No the parents are often not disaffected. It’s part of the phenomenon that the kids are more radical than their parents. I think part of the blame is multiculturalism that has allowed them to grow up in ethnic bubbles. And also many have been taught that their first identity is with the muslim ummah, not Britain.

                • kidsofpalestine

                  Are you human or alien because if you just do some research on the killing of kids in Palestine ,look at the pictures , and the you say that you support Britain who is doing nothing but supporting murderers then humanity comes first and not Britain,by the way Palestine has Christians also,
                  So this makes it not a Muslim war but a Christian war.
                  Just like you’ll hated Germany because of the natzis that is why we hate Israel
                  Israel and natzi Germany are the same ,natzi Germany wantend to wipe out the Jews and entire world went to war with Germany
                  Now the Israel is trying to wipe out the Palestinians so they can steal the land from the Palestinians
                  Where is the world now?

                • Softly Bob

                  I think you’re the one who is ignorant and lacks Common Sense. It is the Palestinians who are trying to wipe out the Jews, not the other way round and that is because they are Muslims. Muslims hate Jews, their little handbook tells them to do so.
                  The land never belonged to the Palestinians. Most of the Palestinians are descended from Syrian and Jordanian refugees who were kicked out of their countries. Now do some research before you accuse others of being ignorant.

              • itbeso

                Their parents, or these days grandparents, came here to escape the Islam these stupid indoctrinated kids are embracing.

              • kidsofpalestine

                Please make sense of your life and go and read the original testament of the Christian or Jewish bible then maybe you will have a different outlook to life unless you are an atheist maybe that is the reason you could be spewing out this filthy words about your fellow human beings,maybe another reason ,you see them as not human beings ,perhaps they may be animals,then I thing you need a head examination ,you may be experiencing dementia

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  Damaris Tighe is complaining about British Jihadis, who don’t care at all about Palestine; Palestine is not a priority for ISIS, al Qaeda, and similar groups. Being christian or atheist is irrelevant.

        • Kitty MLB

          Oh come on Alex, they were offered the land of plenty,
          housing , benefits and healthcare. Would you not want to leave
          your Godforsaken hole in the desert. And yet they remain loyal
          to their birthplace. They eat all our honey and spit the milk
          back in our faces. Don’t include them with other immigrants
          who have embraced this country.
          If we were at war, don’t relay on them for support and just hope
          we are safe with them living here. Considering the situation
          in the middle east.

          • Donafugata

            The news yesterday of the two allegedly brilliant girl students who want to go to Syria had me wondering what sort of low paid job their parents do.

            When a family with eleven children come here from Somalia it is usually the case that not a stroke of work is being done by any member of the family.

            • Kitty MLB

              Indeed, its all rather clever how they milk the system.
              Apparently immigrants from that part of the world have the most children ( eleven? was she not forever pregnant)
              They also bring over family members and sent our taxpayers
              money back to their homeland to support the remaining relatives there.

              • kidsofpalestine

                Become a human being for god sake
                If you are a Christian ,read your bible ,it teaches you to be a human being and not a self entered person

                • Graham Barnes

                  read a book of bullshit? ……no thanks.

                • kidsofpalestine

                  Definitely not for you ,it’s for people with intellect heart and soul,clearly you demonstrate that of the devil and his followers

                • Softly Bob

                  What exactly is self-centered about pointing out evil or pointing out that Islam is a terrorist religion, when it clearly is?

                • KSAFlyer

                  Was Catholic christianity a terrorist religion when the IRA was bombing the UK under the pretext of ‘liberating’ the Catholic Northern Irish?

            • Damaris Tighe

              The Mail says that an army vet was thrown out of her council house so they could be accommodated.

            • kidsofpalestine

              You just reaching and babbling what comes out of your mouth,if the shoe was on you I wonder what you would be saying,become a human being and not a air head
              If you have facts speak the facts and don’t generalise

              • Donafugata

                So glad to have annoyed you.

                • kidsofpalestine

                  Disgusted not annoyed,
                  Also just to note your hate for Islam and love for Israel puts it in prospective as to how confused you are ,this is not an islamic Jewish war but and Israeli Palestinian war ,with Israel having hi tech weapons and Palestine homemade rockets ,
                  And you side with Israel and say the Palestinians are a real threat because they fire useless rockets which does no harm ,but the Israeli army with the most sophisticated weapons supplied by the Americans fired into Palestine to kill hundreds
                  And you still say that the Palestinians are killing Jews
                  Wow !!!
                  Look at the map of Palestine before 1967 and look at the map in 2014 after seeing how the Israeli steal the land from the Christian and Muslim Palestinian , if they resist and fight back for their land then thy are terrorist
                  Catch a wake up call bro

          • kidsofpalestine

            Check your history .where did you’ll steal the honey and milk from ,obviously when you go round the world and invade the lands and what do you bring back ,the wealth of that land and now you call it your milk and honey ,smell that honey
            Maybe your sense will get cleared up,and you would become a human being with feelings for another human being
            Unless you re different

            • Softly Bob

              And now you’re giving other people lessons on how to be a human being. You’ve clearly lost the plot.

      • la catholic state

        Muslims are brought in to bear children….East Europeans are brought in for labour.

        • cyrusthevirus

          Good point!!Muslims are invariably useless-their prescence is merely to further Agenda 21

          • kidsofpalestine

            Check your history Muslims have contributed more to every aspect of your life than any non Muslim
            A lot of inventions and mathematical solutions came from Muslims .

            • la catholic state

              No…..Christians have achieved the most, with Jews in second place.

              • Weaver

                Per Capita our Jewish friends look even more impressive. A trend which continues to this day in Israel.

                • la catholic state

                  Yes…Jews are very gifted….being Christ’s kith and kin.

            • Hugh1

              Anything since the eleventh century?

              • Jeffrey Vernon

                That’s like asking ‘have the Greeks contributed anything since 500 BC.’ The standard treatise on Optics until Newton’s time was the work of Al-Hazen, who died in 1040. It was translated into Latin and never went out of print after the Gutenberg press was invented. The crucial question, of course, is why it came to an end (please don’t refer me to Jared Diamond or David Landes).

                • Hugh1

                  Thanks for that Jeffrey. As well as not developing gentleman scientists, they’ve failed to produce concepts of liberty and the rule of law. Thanks for soap and zero (possibly) though.

                • Jeffrey Jones

                  They got the zero from India.

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  It was Persians who brought zero out of India (and not, for example, the Chinese, who knew India equally well at this time). It was in its Arabic form that the algebra of zero reached Italy and England by the 12th century. The Indians had good mathematicians, astronomers, clock-makers, calendarists; but they tended to regard these accomplishments as intellectual toys rather aids to practical thinking.

                • kidsofpalestine

                  Rules of law !! Wow do research before making rash statements ,I must commend the script writers of Rambo ,the scene when Rambo is captured by the afghanis and in the cave when he is given the food, wow !! and you call Islam barbaric , do some research and you will find what Islam is ,
                  Have an open mind and then you would know how the media brain washed you into thinking Islam is bad , and then look at guantanamo bay and you would conclude the Americans and the like minded people are the barbarians

                • Hugh1

                  It’s rule of law not rules by the way. Not that I’ve seen the film but weren’t Rambo and the Afghans on the same side fighting the commies? As you bring barbarism and Afghanistan into it, what about Buddhas of Bamiyan?

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  The difficulty here is the idea that ‘muslims’ didn’t develop liberty whereas ‘the west’ did. Muslim and the West are not comparable categories. It’s not even the case that ALL of the West contributed, or that non-muslim parts of the east did.

                • Hugh1

                  The lack of difficulty here Jeffrey is that Muslim societies did not and therefore remain essentially medieval.

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  Chinese and Japanese societies did not, either. I don’t think it’s a sufficient explanation to say ‘England had Locke and Mill.’ Constitutional ideas appeared in egypt, turkey, iran in the 19th/early 20th centuries, along with electric street lighting, telephones and public cinemas. I don’t think anyone really knows if it all stopped because there was no internal motor, or because these states were vulnerable to changes in the world order. What I’m resisting is the idea that ‘muslim’ means an inherent disability or hostility to democracy, liberation, and all the rest of it. I’m not arguing about the content of the religion, which anyway comes and goes; the three countries I named above have gone through highly secular phases. I’m talking about the idea that being born in Iraq (say) means that you’ll sympathise with death cults and terror.

                • Hugh1

                  My original point related to a claim that essentially Muslims invented the world from Kidsofpalestine. Parochial, ignorant and self important and if he represents the average Iraqi then yes they sympathise with death cults.

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  The operative word is ‘if.’ I don’t think anyone who saw Iraq under Saddam 15 years ago – repressive, yes, but essentially a first world secular country – would have predicted what it has become. If Iraq has gone bad, it’s been allowed to get that way. Kidsofpalestine – resentful, defensive, apologist – is not typically ‘muslim’ any more than the lord’s resistance army is typically ‘christian.’ My Iranian boss, my Bahraini and Moroccan colleagues, and my Kazakh student have little in common with each other, let alone with him. We should reject the claims of British nut-job mullahs that all muslims have a collective mind and a common purpose.

                • Hugh1

                  None of your colleagues come from countries with legitimate government.

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  Agreed. And none of my colleagues is a deranged jihadi

                • kidsofpalestine

                  Goggle islamic contribution and see for your self

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  You haven’t read my answer (which if anything, supports your claim). Remember this: Google is not the answer to ANYTHING. For example, if I Googled ‘British muslims are all terrorists’ I would find pages and pages of closely argued essays by eminent academics and journalists, explaining that terror is embedded in the koran and is a muslim duty.

                  As I wrote: Why did Islamic science come to an end? (I presume you agree that it did)

                • Weaver

                  It’s not that far off the mark. Make it the 13th century and its a harder question to answer. By the 15th there is only a handful of items. And by the 17th its unanswerable.

                  I’d suggest the failure pathway is Islam tending to promote a single, despotic state which is very good at rent seeking but terrible at nurturing domestic capital. The science falls over later because the centre thinks there’s no benefit to such enquiry and because the supporting economic need isn’t there. China suffers from the same problem during the long, stable dynasties. And what’s wrong with Landes?

                  Others have different takes, which emphasise the immutability of revelation, the transcendence of Allah and failure of rationalist Islamic theology, but the impact is plainly regressive regardless.

              • kidsofpalestine

                Google islamic contribution and see for your self

              • Diana

                like British since the 18th?

                • Hugh1

                  If we’ve regressed from the 18th century then they’ve regressed from the 11th.

            • Softly Bob

              No they didn’t. Arabic numerals for example were invented by the Hindus. The Muslims brought many technological innovations with them when the conquered other lands but all these innovations were stole from other people. Before you embarrass yourself further, you should check your history.
              Muslims have contributed nothing to this World other than war and terror!

              • The Buck is back

                Hey Bob

              • kidsofpalestine

                I am not disputing ,just clarifying Islam has contributed,
                If you need to know how much more then google islam contribution and you would see or youself

                • Softly Bob

                  I don’t need to. I know that the Islam contribution is a myth that has been debunked a number of times now. The Muslims have contributed nothing to technology. Even during the so-called Golden Age of Islam all the contributions to science were done by Jewish and Christian dhimmis who lived there.
                  The Muslims believe that all science comes from the Q’uran including the fact that the Sun sets in a muddy swamp.
                  These people are superstitious retards. They have invented nothing and contributed nothing to the World except fear and violence.

                  Television, the internal combustion engine, the steam engine, radar, the telephone, nuclear physics, vaccinations, rifles, penicillin, printing, not one of these things was conceived in the mind of a Muslim.
                  Everything they know and everything they have was stolen from others.

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  While I agree that the muslim contribution is sometimes hyped (they didn’t for example develop manned flight in the 17th century as someone has claimed), you are wrong about the ‘golden age.’ There were several experimental, empirical scientists whose work remained standard (in latin translation) until the 17th c. in Europe. There were also, as you say, xstian and jewish writers. There were also muslims who composed works in Hebrew – it seems to have been a scientific lingua franca in parts of the islamic world. Muslim original contributions to science only really ended around 1600, when the contrast with the European sci rev really becomes clear for the first time. In fact, it would be extraordinary if the muslims had really contributed nothing, given the legacy of greek and jewish and persian/babylonian thought; it’s not paying them a special complement to acknowledge that they did make original discoveries, and fruitful developments of earlier work, in physics, maths, astronomy, anatomy, alchemy.

            • First L

              I have an immense respect for historical Islam – the University at Timbuktu and it’s contributions to science. I’m a big fan of Cat Stevens.

              However Islam in general kind of gave up around 1895 when The Mahdi arose and started promoting Islamism killing everyone who moved who wasn’t Muslim and destroying anything that didn’t exist at the time of Muhammed. While individual Muslims might now be very prominent in certain sectors and certain countries – such as Iran, that have successfully resisted Islamism, have very good scientific programmes. The general culture of Islam is radicalising fast, becoming incredibly sectarian and going down the toilet in the process thanks to power mad little warmongers. Very sad to see for what should be an enlightened religion.

              • Weaver

                I’m not sure Islam ever had an “enlightened period”.

                To be sure, there have been enlightened, at least by the standards of the time, societies with large muslim components or rulers. But the same holds true for any religion. Al Andalus, Mali, and Persia are relative exceptions to long periods of brutal, impoverishing despotism. By the 13th century the “doors of ijtihad are closed”, or closing. The Islamic states of the ME and North Africa are running down their human and moral capital from that point, slowly exhausting their opportunities for rent seeking. It just takes a couple of centuries more for the rot to be apparent.

                You have to ask if, ceteris paribus, Islamic societies have tended to produce more or less art, commerce, and science than the non-Islamic societies around them. Especially considering the vast populations and span of time they had to work with.

                The answer must be negative. Islam, overall and on average, has very regressive effects on art, science, commerce, and political liberty. (To be fair, the Catholic Church had a similar impeding effect through southern Europe, but it was never half as bad).

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  ‘Islam, overall and on average, has very regressive effects on art, science, commerce, and political liberty.’ Islamic countries in the 14th century were trading freely with Italian city states, India, China; had fully developed and competing schools of law; were probably more advanced in monumental and decorative art than anywhere else; had astronomers and mathematicians as good as anyone else’s; and poetry that was exceeded in quantity & quality by that of few european countries. I can see that all this was lagging behind Europe by 1600, but it makes no sense to over-compensate and minimise the contribution. I think, too, that ‘islam’ is beside the point. Do we regard Chaucer, Albert Magnus and Jan Hus as products of ‘christendom’ ? Or as inhabitants of England, Bavaria, Bohemia?

                • Weaver

                  The limited number of econ papers I’ve seen suggest the Islamic trade profile is notably low given their size, location, and geographic spread. The Ottomans in particular slowly choke the Silk Road. An interesting bit you may not know is the supremacy of the metropole in Islamic empires compared to their late medieval Western counterparts; these are strongly extractive systems where the centre sucks in wealth from the periphary. Ironically, Ibn Khuldun had a fair inkling of this by the 14th century

                  Your point about Chaucer etc. is well received. It is semantically loose to go around describing art, science and technology as “Islamic”. We don’t, as you say, call the telescope a “Catholic invention”. The question, ultimately, is one of statistical reasoning. What are the effects of Islamic belief or rulership on the relative attainment rates and progression in arts, science, and commerce?

                  Remember, the near East is doing much, much better than the West at the advent of Islam. After Islamic conquest, my contention is that their relative lead in all these areas starts to decline; being lost, by as you say, by 1600. I would note the relative decline of Islamic countries neatly parallels the slow conversion of their early Christian majorities, rather than the initial conquest itself.

            • Fergus Pickering

              No they didn’t. The maths came from India. As for the invention, name one. Thought not.

              • Jeffrey Vernon

                algebra, decimal notation, magnifying lenses, chess, pointed arch, pin-hole camera, lateen sails, distillation and perfumes, advances in weaving and dyeing, new forms of the magnetic compass, metallurgical processes (like damascus steel), versions of the abacus, rules for testing efficacy of drugs…. . it won’t do to say that these were all inspired by earlier versions; the first really new technologies since ancient times were photography and steam power in the 18th century; everything else I can think of in Europe, Islam and China to that date was a development of something that already lay at hand.

          • kidsofpalestine

            Agenda,not to be oppressed and have the same freedom you and I have ,if you we’re in there situation ,what!! U would take a gun and shoot yourself or fight for your freedom
            Think about another human being ,you sit in you comfort zone so you can talk with no fear of your life

        • kidsofpalestine

          You are ignorant and stupid you don’t know what is Islam ,Islam is not what a suicide bomber does that is just emotions ,they are not cowards like the Israelis drop a bomb from the sky wit planes an helicopters ,they don’t have that ,they sacrifice their lives in order to get people to think why would the kill them selves help them stop the onslaught of innocent people ,Palestine has Christians and Muslims,
          People from both religions are hands on
          So now that college degree and all that you studied for goes out the door because you have one thing on your mind and that is reveng

          • lookout

            Please check out a fellow Palestinian, WALID SHOEBAT on the web. One question, why, after 5 wars against Israel, you, Islam, cannot take them down? Is it because God will not allow it?

            • kidsofpalestine

              Walid Shoebat (Arabic: وليد شعيبات‎) is a Palestinian American (Protestant) Christian who converted from Islam.[1][2] Shoebat claimed to be a “Palestinian Liberation Organization terrorist” in a CNN television interview,[2] but the information could not be verified by CNN when investigated. He is a speaker for hire about dangers of Islamic radicalism[2] and also claims to be a strong supporter of the state of Israel.[1] Born in the West Bank to an American mother, Shoebat also claimed to have firebombed an Israeli bank, although this claim could not be verified by investigative journalists.

              He is an opportunist CNN says so not me
              Please please don’t base Islam on money mongrels ,is is not even a Muslim
              You are brain washed by the media with the word Islam and terrorist ,why not Islam and freedom fighter
              1) Israel is stealing land from the Palestinians which the say according to the Balfour declaration the British gave them a portion of the land with no consent from the owners of the land which is the Bedouins of Palestine now when they are fighting for their land and freedom, is that a freedom fighter or terrorist?
              2) Afghanistan,America is fighting the Taliban,Taliban people ar from Afghanistan ,they are fighting for freedom from the Americans,Americans invade Afghanistan and call the Taliban people terrorist( wow)
              3)Iraq, America invades Iraq,and the Iraqi people fight back and they are also called terrorist
              Do you see the pattern,goggle American black ops and you will see more,
              Also research Islam via the library and not media and Internet
              Or may be read the English Quran ,have an open mind and you may find better answers than I can give you
              Before the Cold War can end the media had no interest in Islam and the Palestinians and the Taliban and the Iraqis ,why
              It’s called media sensationalism ,cold war was over they needed a new money maker and a new war to keep the American army working so they don’t loose that hefty budget for the war machine,by the way what is the biggest commodity America supplies the world with?
              Wait for it!!
              Wait for it !!
              Arms and ammunitions

              • Softly Bob

                You’re the one who is brainwashed, moron. Seriously, aren’t your parents emvarrassed that they raised somebody so stupid.
                And stop telling somebody who doesn’t agree with you that they are brainwashed by the media when the media are actually biased against Israel and are Muslim-friendly.

                • kidsofpalestine

                  If I m a moron who’s trying to defend other less fortunate,living under oppression,fighting for freedom
                  And you sit in your comfort zone and call them terrorist
                  Maybe you should go there with your family ,let one of your family get blown to bits in front of your eyes ,then maybe you would get a realty check and you would get human qualities and won’t be an arrogant ignorant moron whose behaviour is less than a human or even an animal for that matter
                  Don’t stand on the outside and blab your mouth ,get in there shoes see what they see feel what they feel and then base your opinion

          • itbeso

            “This is not Islam this is emotions ”

            Indeed emotions planted and nurtured by Islam.

            • kidsofpalestine

              God almighty! no matter what I say you gonna call a Muslim a terrorist and barbaric ,do some research ,read the English version of the Quran maybe then you will be enlighten as to who and what a Muslim stands for,also taking examples from non practising and name sake Muslims is not a true reflection of what Islam is

              • The Buck is back

                OK forkwit, I’ll bite, my copy of the so called “noble” quran has been certified by Al Ahzar univercity as being authentic.
                60+% is concerned with kafirs and how to subjugate them, care to explain?

          • Softly Bob

            The only person making stupid remarks here is yourself.

            • kidsofpalestine

              I think you are right if you call my remarks stupid then you’re ignorant and my time and effort trying to make you think like a human being is wasted on you

              • Softly Bob

                You are ignorant. I’ve read the Qu’ran, I know what’s in it, now go away!!

                • kidsofpalestine

                  It’s a pity,if you say you read the Quran , and you still have an opinion that Islam is nothing then all I can say is more than ignorance you re arrogant at least you could have spelled Quran correctly not Koran.All those universities studying the Quran must be stupid and we take it we must believe you are the intelligent one,
                  God have mercy on your soul

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  Neither K nor Q is a letter in Arabic.

        • http://www.nrk.no/ Birger Skruddusvingen

          “Muslims are brought in to bear children….East Europeans are brought in for labour.”

          And all of them are brought in to destroy the Western nation states…

    • Kitty MLB

      They also don’t belong to us nor want to. Their parents were shipped here
      to the land of milk and honey. They’d rather not be here but its better then the
      God forsaken place their parents grew up in.
      Yes they are hateful, they wish to go to Iraq and help with the oblivion process
      and fly back here and sent us to oblivion. And probably go to heaven with
      27 virgins or whatever the number is.
      Why are we still making excuses, they are not ” confused” in the slightest.

      • WatTylersGhost

        You are right Kitty, except they seem intent on making this place as wretched as the sand pits they came from…. and its seems that we are happy to let them,.

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