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What have we done for ISIS not to hate us?

3 July 2014

3:06 PM

3 July 2014

3:06 PM

After 9/11 the Western world’s response fell between two poles; on the one hand lots of people agreed with General Norman Schwarzkopf that it was not our job to forgive the terrorists, it was God’s job; ours was simply to arrange the meeting. On the other hand some on the American Left asked the question: why do they hate us so?

Perhaps more worrying might be the question: why don’t they hate us?

This week Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, head of the lovely Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant—now just ‘Islamic State’—issued a statement to the worldwide faithful in his new role as self-proclaimed caliph.


In a reasonably slick document issued in several languages al-Baghdadi celebrated the month of Ramadan with his own message, rather like the Pope does at Christmas.

‘We congratulate the ummah (people) of Islam, in the East and in the West, on the advent of the blessed month of Ramadan, and we praise Allah (the Exalted) for allowing us to reach this virtuous month.’

He continued:

‘Go forth, O mujahidin in the path of Allah. Terrify the enemies
of Allah and seek death in the places where you expect to find it, for the dunyā (worldly life) will come to an end, and the hereafter will last forever.’

He then went onto say, rather lacking in irony I should add, that the blood of Muslims was being spilt everywhere, orphans and widows made and the rights of Muslims violated. As Blackadder might have said: by your soldiers, sir.

He then got on to the good stuff:

‘O ummah of Islam, indeed the world today has been divided into two camps and two trenches, with no third camp present: The camp of Islam and faith, and the camp of kufr (disbelief) and hypocrisy – the camp of the Muslims and the mujahidin everywhere, and the camp of the jews, the crusaders, their allies, and with them the rest of the nations and religions of kufr, all being led by America and Russia, and being mobilized by the jews.’

All in all, in raging against the enemies of Islam, al-Baghdadi mentioned Russia, America (twice) and the Jews (three times; the most – obviously).

Isn’t there a major power he missed out? Isn’t the European Union supposed to be a player these days? I’m so used to Britain being a third-rate power that I even get a little twinge of pride when an angry mob in some dusty, third-world hellhole burns badly-made Union Jacks, but how relevant can a United Europe really be if no one outside its borders considers it a threat or enemy? Shouldn’t the EU be asking: why don’t they hate us?

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Show comments
  • Gergiev

    We are self-hating so they don’t have too…

  • Bonkim

    The EU Army is a laugh – that is why.

  • Microaggressive

    The UK and EU are on the side of the muslims invading.

    That’s why

    • Bonkim

      Don’t put the EU and UK on the same side.

      • Microaggressive

        For allowing muslims to set up beachheads of thousands of mosque barracks it’s the same

        • Bonkim

          Don’t panic or exxagerate/become hyper.

  • edlancey

    “why don’t they hate us?”

    It’s obvious: the EU and the UK have already submitted to Islam.

    All that’s left to arrange is the paperwork: birth certificates, jizya/welfare payments, etc.

    • Bonkim


    • 3ly

      lol jizya is for non muslims
      zakat is for muslims

      once you convert you have to pay zakat 2.5%
      as oppose to 2% jizya

  • Amir
    • MrGrylls


  • global city

    Good one!

  • artemis in france

    Perhaps they think they’ve already won in Europe. Look how Muslims have infiltrated the richest countries in the EU and have set up their own enclaves. I don’t know if other European nations have areas where Sharia law is operative, but parts of Britain seem to already. In France Arabs are treated with greât suspicion by the police and, except in individual cases when one knows a particular person at work or in business, the general population (with the self-righteous and blind exception of bien-pensants of course) seem to feel much the same. Here it isn’t a thought-crime to suspect dangerous behaviour within the banlieues, it’s just common sensé.

    • JB_1966

      No need to fight hard here, as you say. Kick up every now and then, murder someone, let off a bomb and we will cower. Gerrymander elections? The Guardian will defend you to the end!

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Well of course Britain is the world`s third most hated nation, after Israel and the United States of Torture.

    • Wessex Man

      Please when you have two or three hours, lat out in full detail why the UK is rthe third most hated nation and when you polled all the East Asian countries who are curerntly casting worried glances at their islands that are at risk of invasion.

      Likewise, when did you poll Australia, New Zealand, the South Seas Islands, China and Russia?

  • Al

    Sir, you are presenting reasonable and accurate critisism of Islam. You are islamophobic. Time to contact Tell Mama I think.

  • davidhill

    What we are witnessing presently should be a warning to the West and where dire inequality drives terrorism to emerge. The growth in extremism has not decreased but it has been fanned by the Iraq, Libyan, Egyptian, Syrian and Afghan wars and where we should have kept out of all of them. But as we know, our politicians never listen and now we have to suffer a far more dangerous and unpredictable world. Now we have the enemy from within and something far harder to defend against even if we ever can. For any army general will tell you that internal terrorism is the unseen war which goes on indefinitely. Indeed the history of the world has shown that so-called terrorists in one time period eventually become the future leaders. That should send shivers down everyone’s spine as history tells us this when people start to rise up against dire inequality – exactly where we have arrived at now and where according to Credit Suisse’s ‘Global Wealth Report’ 2013 the top 10% of the world’s population controls 86% of the world’s total wealth, leaving a mere 14% of the world’s wealth to the remaining 90% of the world’s population. Blame the politicians and the mighty corporation for this state of affairs and where they are hand in glove with this insidious global state of affairs that will cause wars and conflict on an unprecedented scale.

    Unfortunately the more martyrs that are made increasing numbers are created to continue to the very end as history again has recorded. Therefore trying to defeat this monster with a heavy hammer approach, creates the opposite effect as history again has shown.

    • global city

      That really has to be the stupidest post that I’ve ever read. Most of the ‘jihadis’ are well educated, especially those going from Western countries. The other main motivation for the blood letting and terror is all contained in their Koran.

      You can stop flagellating yourself.

      • davidhill

        Enjoy your diatribe it will get us a peaceful world now wont it? Christians according to history did a great deal of blood letting so no need to point the finger at one particular religion. Other religions have very murky histories if you read up.

        • global city

          Current affairs….eyjit!

          Why do you see (the entirely justified) disgust at islamist fanatics as an attack on Muslims? Do you not feel for their victims…99% of them Muslims?

          Idiot twisting or just dull imperception?

          • davidhill

            See you in the future and where your mindset will take the world. Enjoy whilst you can.

            • global city

              Just what is ‘my mindset’?

              That’s the thing I am pointing out as being idiotic. you read two wrong things into my initial post.

              As for ‘the future’…. I think you need to worry less about people like me than you do the nuts that YOU, for some bizarre reason, have decided represent a whole religion and everyone who practices it.

        • William_Brown

          “Enjoy your diatribe it will get us a peaceful world now wont it?” (sic)

          ….Whereas your continued appeasement and wilful denial has made life peaceful and free from concern?

          • davidhill

            see where your thinking will take us. Enjoy whilst you can.

            • William_Brown

              Right back atchya!

            • global city

              With this reply, I imagine that you have some solution that we others are too blind or bigoted to see.

              Please enlighten everyone?

              • davidhill

                Change the politicians but you are so bigoted that you cannot even see the woods for the trees in this respect as no doubt you vote for the same old politicians and party all the time – the reason why politicians get away literally with murder (Blair et al).

                • global city

                  That’s your answer? How would ISIS (for example) respond to the politicians of what ever party you have in mind? Please, provide details of how to arrive at suitable outcome for you.

                  I am not actually a party person. You do seem to come to huge conclusions with little or no evidence though.

                • davidhill

                  You appear to have a lot to say about nothing. Indeed you cannot even see that I am referring to Western decadent politicians who have the power to change things(or they should have). ISIS is presently a minnow in the political scene but I assure you will grow. Again due to western political decisions on foreign policy, not extremist organizations like ISIS. Change the political power around the world (mainly in the west) and things will change but again you cannot see this now can you?

                • global city

                  Silly remark really, as you are just indulging your intellect on the issue in precisely the same way that I am. The only difference is that you are a smug idiot whilst I am not.

                  You are misreading the ‘root cause’ of the current Islamist upwelling. It may be exacerbated by stupid western politicians, but they have not caused it. As I wrote in the first post that you flapped about the truth is that they find all of their hate and all of their ammo in their holy book.

                  Perhaps you should try reading it and it’s associated texts? It makes it plain what ‘the root causes’ are… starting with the Jews.

                • davidhill

                  You certainly are a racist now aren’t you ?

                • global city

                  Really? Indulge me? Explain?

                  You clearly do not pay any attention to what these people ever actually say. You are basically saying that you know more about what drives them than they do themselves. That is patronising, racist even.

                  I’m more than happy to let you stop digging…..will you though?

                • davidhill

                  End of story as I thought. A closet commentator with nothing to offer but sheer ignorance.

                • global city

                  So no, you haven’t stopped digging.

                  I have provided you with the chance to ‘enlighten’ me, but you have refused to. Why is this? Just explain how you see western initiatives being worked in such a way that would stop the growth of Islamism in it’s tracks and lead us all to a world with plenty of hand holding.

                  I think you have convinced yourself of something and you do not care to budge from it.

                • davidhill

                  You have no idea on global matters and are a waste of time. I have realised with you, that you simply cannot educate the uneducated and why you continue to send such dribble. Come back when you have a meaningful message which I very much doubt at all that you have. I could communicate with a child of three better than indulge with a person who in a veiled attempt tries to look intelligent – which you clearly are not.

                • global city

                  But you haven’t even tried to ‘educate’ me. Why not give it a go?

                  Truth is, you can’t. You no doubt began to think how you could get it down into a blog post, but then realised it was all bollux basically.

                  Your little snide remarks only serve to mark you out as a fool with no arguments, not even to counter the ones of mine that you objected to.

                  Stupid, stupid lefty fool. You ‘feel’ your opinions and have only just realised that this is so. You know nothing. If you had you would have posted your thoughts here.

                • davidhill

                  You certainly are the biggest idiot I have ever come across and no-one can educate someone who has no reality of what life is really about. You are certainly a stupid rightist fool with your dialogue and most probably a banker or some other fool that has indirectly destroyed the lives of many western families. If not you ought to be one with your full capitalist mindset that is all for self and for no others..

                • global city

                  Oh, do grow up.

                  Nobody wants your socialism, especially in those places where it has been tried or imposed. It always leads to squalor and oppression, as people like you get jobs and crush dissent.

                  If you reply saying that true socialism hasn’t been tried I will have to deduce that I am corresponding with a five yr old.

                  And in any case, are you really sure that deep down ISIS only want what you do?

                • davidhill

                  Your certainly have not a worldly understanding of interactive matters and where commenting ‘…are you really sure that deep down ISIS only want what you do?… shows that you have no comprehension of complex issues – as all people and institutions are multifaceted and where you only see the surface as a single ideological one faceted issue. Believe this and it shows your entire naivety in international matters which you clearly have not a clue. When you dig deeper there are many reasons why terrorists arise include the case of ISIS. Fool !

                • global city

                  You really are a strange one.

                • davidhill

                  Not half as strange as you !

                • global city

                  I am not pretending that the situation is so bewildering that it cannot be answered on the specie blog. You are pretending that you have a more sophisticated understanding of this and other situations round the world, presumably because you rad the gruniad and national Geographic!

                  There is no evidence of my ‘ignorance’ and lack of understanding, but there is plenty to show your grandstanding.

                • davidhill

                  I have an idea. Why don’t you flush your head down the loo. It may do your brain bit of good and bring you to your senses if you have any. Human care senses if possible but apparently an impossibility in your particular case..

                • global city

                  You keep on flapping out remarks, each one making you look sillier and sillier.

                  Your ‘intelligence’ is basically an assumption of your own. Too dumb to realise how dumb you are.

                  I demand to know if you are 7 years old and a member of the yoof wing of UAF?

                • davidhill

                  Time to put your head down the loo to flush the one or less brain cell out that you might possess. What a stupid uneducated fool you really are !

                • global city

                  You seem to be suffering from a quite breathtaking self regard. How did you get it? As far as I can tell (from your own string of posts) you lack depth. You may think that you know a lot, but you don’t… or you would have shared something of it on this thread instead of going on like a kid in the playground who just won’t give up, despite getting embarrassed over and over again.

                • davidhill

                  You are the kid on the block. Grow up !

                • global city

                  Big girls blouse!

                • davidhill

                  You have certainly a leaning towards the isolated and just cannot see the ‘big’ picture now can you. You have probably never looked further than your nose and have never seen the view from both sides of the coin. Have you ever watched RT? If not I should and get both sides of any argument of any conflict that is going on from at least one source…even terrorism. A closed mind to just a one sided view never solves anything. Your thinking will never lead to any solutions as it appears to be quite insular to the broader complex issues that create terrorism.

                • global city

                  Well, David, that’s the irony of your whole string of posts accusing me of being uninformed and unworldly. I watch RT regularly. I also watch most of the other news channels available, from Al jezeera to the French and Indian ones. I watch Euronews quite often too, as it is the only one that covers the EU regularly.

                  I have always liked to take as wide a reach of views and perspectives as possible.

                  None of this changes anything in that original point that I made.

                  Setting ISIS in some wider international geopolitical perspective is wrong. Their ability to organise and publicise their cause, why they have been able to recruit and what success or not they are having may all be influenced by all sorts of issues…. but their core motivation is, as I said right from the start found in old history books and mostly, the Koran.

                  I would advise against you automatically assuming that anybody who does not wholly agree with you must be uninformed or unenlightened away. I would really resist the inclination to assume that they are mere sop monkeys for western propaganda.

        • Damaris Tighe

          Why do people who are anti-christian & anti-west always feel it necessary to make their point by referring to events which took place at least several hundred years ago?

          • davidhill

            Not against Christianity but against all religions due to the great harm that they had done to humanity. – they are all man made you know and some of the biggest businesses in the world.

    • pinkgunnergirl


      Excellent post, the best i’ve read on here. The neo cons and their hangers on refuse to address the economic inequality that is driving this radicalisation, instead preferring to blame the catch all “ideological extremism”. The truth is the “West” which has collapsed into moral and economic depravity has nothing to offer the young non privileged non elites, of all races.

      • William_Brown

        I wish you all the best in the Caliphate…

      • davidhill

        Spot on and at least there are some intelligent people who can see the capitalist fundamentalists for what they really are. Unfortunately they never look further than their bank balances and human suffering is a mere side show.

        • global city

          Two idiots flapping to each other.

          Really? Islamist radicalism is a response to something from the west?

          prosperity is the best way to sanitise most of the world’s ills, but you two seem to want to kill the only method of providing this…. good old enterprise. Having said that, you foolish people are too ignorant and racist to listen to the people who have taken up mad religious causes, preferring instead to twist in the usual guardianista way to point at something that is your fault.

          Two fully blown idiots… Fisk and Chomsky will no doubt be proud of you both.

          • davidhill

            The only idiot is when you look in the mirror.

            • global city

              Good response!

              Tell me though. Why are ISIS killing fellow Muslims right now?

              i see below that you have a childish attitude to religion, believing that if only we could stop it’s influence then the world would be better……

              Strangely, I fully agree with you about that, I just do not share your desire to twist the truth of what is the source of the problem with Islam right now into something that is our fault.

              You are either being wilfully blind or you rally are one of those idiotic gruniad herbivores.

              • davidhill

                No just someone who has travelled extensively and had the access to a great deal of feedback from Islamists to multi-billionaire. You get a better picture of the world and not a one-sided affair that you apparently have. When you are 50-something you may have learnt a little more about reality and not Disneyland .

                • global city

                  as I said, MASSIVE assumptions. Why are you being such an idiot?

                  You don’t have the bloody answers, you do not even recognise the basic cause.I assume that you are heartbroken by Blair’s betrayal or something? I have never had the misfortune of developing man love for any western politician. As I said about that one, you are barking up the wrong tree.

                  Perhaps we are getting our wires crossed, as you keep on making accusations, built on assumptions that clearly come from something other than what I have actually written… so what could it be?

                • davidhill

                  Tell me a little about yourself then and where you get all your worldly wisdom from.? Probably a blank answer as usual so I am not expecting much.

    • mohdanga

      “…the top 10% of the world’s population controls 86% of the world’s total wealth, leaving a mere 14% of the world’s wealth to the remaining 90% of the world’s population. Blame the politicians and the mighty corporation for this state of affairs and where they are hand in glove with this insidious global state of affairs that will cause wars and conflict on an unprecedented scale.”
      So where are the global caliphate terrorists in Central and South America where there is grinding poverty? Plenty of poor countries in Africa, and aside from those blighted with Muslim populations, no rioting or terrorism in the name of Allah.
      Perhaps the Sultan of Brunei, the kings and princes of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Oman, Qatar, the leaders of Indonesia, the kooks running Iran and Nigeria, all Muslim countries and loaded with petrodollars could contribute some of their wealth to their Muslim brothers in order to alleviate the ‘wealth inequality’ that is making them terrorists. Or is the West responsible for this as well?

      • 3ly

        so you dont know whether the west is involved in keeping the Arab countries in order
        heres a hint check out the percentage of the population of KSA that agrees with IS
        your going to be surprised

        artificial dictatorships propped up by US dollars dont last for long
        but you had a good run
        secular democracy just isnt a global ideology
        its not for everyone

  • The Masked Marvel

    They’ve hated “us” for more than 1000 years. Why find excuses now?

  • Kitty MLB

    You may find these murderous barbarians hate everyone, especially those who supported the US after 9/11 and they
    are nailing people to crosses. So much for the ludicrously nsmed
    Arab Spring..was that name a sick joke?
    Clearly Isis are playing a game of Russian Roulette.And they
    have lists of who they hate the most…but they hate everyone, so
    we and others are at the mercy of these savages.
    And should never be ‘relieved’ that they hate others more.
    Think of those Christian and Jewish people who live amongst
    them and who are being slaughtered daily.

  • Tony_E

    I’m sure it was just an oversight…

  • andy_gill

    The spectacle of ISIS murdering its way across Iraq reminds us what Mohammed’s* rapacious conquests must have looked like when Islam was starting up. A bloody warmongering and supremacist religion indeed.

    I hope as many foreign fighters as possible flock to Iraq. So that when they are gathered together we can drop a very large bomb on them. It would be a kindness.

    *Sorry, did I forget the PBUH?

    • JB_1966

      Quite so. But we won’t and they’ll be talking their savage gibberish at the UN before we know it. Expect some British leftist halfwit to say that opposing beheadings and crucifixions is cultural imperialism before the month is out.

  • The Laughing Cavalier

    They’ll get round to it soon enough.

  • Andy

    Who cares what these murdering heretics think, if they can think that is.

  • Ricky Strong

    How can ISIS hate us, we just gave them some fifteen hundred fighters. We are a breeding ground for them.

    • William_Brown

      But our ‘friends across the pond’ supplied them with ‘military aid’ just two weeks prior to ISIS bulldozing a sand road from Syria into Iraq. Surely that should’ve bought some immunity for the yanks too?? You don’t think that the US’s foreign policy is a bit…umm…confused?

    • Fergus Pickering

      They can have all they want. They can have them for ever.

    • Bonkim

      We can also populate ISIS lands – pay their large families and give them one way tickets to emigrate there.

  • colliemum

    You know full well why they don’t hate the EU: there are far too many of their co-religionists living here and supplying them with what they need – cash, young jihadis, that sort of thing.

    America is of course the Big Satan, has been since 1979 and is thus a proper target for their hate.
    As for Russia – well, they were not exactly wimpish when dealing with the attempt to establish a muslim theocracy in Chechnya, were they. So: they need to be hated as well.
    China, I surmise, is too far away, and not on the mental landscape of those jihadis, that’s why China’s way of dealing with islamists has escaped their attention, so far. Else they’d hate that as well.
    There – simple, isn’t it, Ed!

    • Alexsandr

      the lack of education probably means the jihadis dont know where china is!

      • colliemum

        If they’re ‘British’ jihadis, they probably think it’s something to eat from …

    • sarah_13

      Well spain and austria are on their list along with Rome. If they had the chance take everywhere. There is no dealing with these people they have to be dealt with seriously.

  • Smithersjones2013

    Because it is obvious to anyone outside Europe that the EU for whatever reason (most likely vanity) is by saving the Euro doing its very best to cripple Europe and in doing so doing a far better job of bringing Europe to its knees than ISIS ever could.

    That the EU is also from time to time attempting to subvert and undermine NATO as well is a bonus

    ISIS probably identify the EU as unintentional allies…..

    PS Never consider the EU as ‘us’ . They will always be ‘them’ (amongst numerous curses, slurs and derogatory names)

  • Read some history

    China has banned the ramadan fast for students and civil servants. There is not a peep out of any islamist anywhere, let alone the career whingers of the muslim council of britain. Why are there no Chinese flags alight, or promises of ‘death to China’? What is China doing right that the West is not?

    • starfish

      A somewhat more muscular attitude to islamic extremism?

      • Adam

        Yes! Exactly! I mean fasting for a whole month to get closer to their God, tut tut tut, they don’t pray all night and day, they think of ways to take over the world right starfish? GO GO CHINA! YAYYYY

    • will91

      Weakness is a provaction.

      China is strong and Europe/the west is old and weak.

      Muslims have come, in large numbers, to the correct conclusion that the west is weak. The west doesn’t know what it is, is willing to fight to the death to protect the rights of those who despise it and makes up a smaller portion of the human race each year.

      • Conway

        Our tradition of tolerance is seen as weakness to be used against us.

        • 3ly

          tradition of tolerance
          more like hypocracy
          the muslims will wake up

          • Human Being

            Wake up & be more human? Wake up & get a life? Wake up & try some bacon? Thanks to WESTERN enginuity the world over reliance on crude oil is decreasing daily, what else you got? Better wake up and start kissing some western back sides you poor mindfucked nutts. Good luck.

      • Adam

        You speak of them as if they are a different species

    • Donafugata

      Putin is the same, he won’t stand for Islamic c**p either and good for him.

    • telemachus

      Al Qaeda and ISIS are no match for the triads

    • global city

      Because the Chinese would not broadcast them on their telly.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Good point. Disliking violence myself I tend to wince at comments along the lines of ‘all they understand is violence’, but looking at China it seems to be true.

      To my annoyance I see that Ramadan is now marked on my calendar.

      • Fergus Pickering

        It isn’t on mine. When is it?

        • Damaris Tighe

          Don’t worry, it isn’t important.

          • Adam

            Yeah don’t worry, not important, except to a few 1.5 billion people.

            • Damaris Tighe

              Well let it be important to them. I’m not stopping them.

      • Conway

        I crossed it out on mine, but left “Armed Forces Day”.

    • Andrew James

      Article is obsolete now; since they’ve beheaded two British Captives!

  • Robert_Eve

    I don’t recognise the EU as ‘us’.

    • Kitty MLB

      Yes indeed “We” are not geographically attached to the Europe. And what of other European countries that are not
      on their list of hate. Will ISIS ( why have they chosen this
      ancient Egyptian name) crucify them too.
      Or will they and others be on the next list .

    • tjamesjones

      this is annoyingly off-topic – it’s not as if ISIS are talking about the UK or the EU and that’s the point.

      • Kitty MLB

        Maybe ISIS have a list of who they wish to send to
        oblivion first. The US were always going to be one of the first. But we must not be relieved that they are not
        speaking of us at this present moment.
        Because they will have many lists in their quest to
        destroy the West and world domination.

        • pinkgunnergirl

          In the Middle East you will see: “First comes Saturday, then comes Sunday….”, graffiti in many areas.

          It means first target those who worship on a Saturday (Jews) then those who worship on Sunday (Christians).

          • 3ly

            actually armageddon is a war against the jews
            so that theory is debunked

      • Steve E

        They have made public mention of wanting to take back lands in Spain they feel belong to the Caliphate – (The kingdom of Granada).

    • telemachus

      I am very surprised that France is not top of the list after the upholding of the ban on the Burka and Niqab this week

      • Alexsandr

        respect for the french on that.

        • telemachus

          Tells me something different
          The ECHR dances to France’s tune
          I imagine a different result if there had been a UK ban

          • global city

            Ooh, Tele…. you’re beginning to click?

      • MissDemeanor

        it’s not surprising at all
        only the weak think appeasement works

        look at switzerland: a total ban on burka’s and minarets, and do you think they wil ever see a terrorist attack?

        • Des Demona

          Probably not. It’s likely where most of the terrorists have stashed their dough.

  • William Haworth

    Don’t worry Ed, he missed out China too. If Europe has as much influence over these sweethearts as china does, then that’s OK.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      They didn’t miss out on China. The islamofascists know one thing for certain, that if they mess with the Chicoms, they’ll wish they hadn’t.

      The Chicom warlords aren’t much for due process, civil liberties, rules of war and other such niceties. On the various milblogs, they sometimes have spoken about the Chicom warships patrolling as part of the anti-piracy patrols off Africa. The NATO ships are all stuffed with lawyers and every pirate’s “rights” are respected, but apparently, the Chinese navy isn’t so fussy about such matters. When they catch a pirate, they do what everybody else used to do with them. Not a lawyer in sight, apparently. And they don’t publish white papers and go to Geneva for discussion groups and so forth, re their methods.

      Now, if you were a pirate or an islamofascist, who would you rather mess with, us or the Chicom warlords? Right.

      • Damaris Tighe

        I really despair of our ability to fight a war any more. Even the Israelis feel it necessary to have lawyers attached to every military operation because the left media scream ‘foul!’ every time a Palestinian stubs his toe.

  • Christopher Burd

    I believe they refer to “Rome” from time to time. That’s the Roman Empire, and the Byzantine Empire, and the Holy Roman Empire, and, in its current incarnation, the EU.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Good point, you may well be right. The MSM is interpreting it as the city only, which doesn’t sound correct.

      • Christopher Burd

        When the Greek army took one of the Aegean islands from the Turks just before the World War I, there was a conversation between a Greek soldier and a group of small boys:

        “What are you looking at?”

        “At the Hellenes.”

        “Why do you say Hellenes, aren’t you Hellenes yourselves?”

        “No, we are Romans.”

      • 3ly

        think of rome as NATO

        • 3ly

          not much has changed the capital has changed and maybe some ideological borders but roman christians nonetheless

    • pinkgunnergirl

      Yes, when they refer to “Rome”, they mean the Holy Roman Empire, basically Europe the HQ of Christianity.

  • Mike Oddpiece

    If Britain is a 3rd rate power, what does that make nearly all the rest of the world? And who are the second rate powers?

    • Christopher Burd

      First-rate powers: US & China. Second-rate: Russia, India, Japan, maybe Brazil. Canada is fourth-rate, but I look forward to our future Golden Age, when we will be third-rate.

      • tjamesjones

        China is not a first rate power, it’s a regional power and a fast growing economy, but in this context, which is definitely largely military, China is entirely unproven and while India might be beneath them, I find it hard to believe they could project themselves successfully against Russia.

        • Christopher Burd

          Except for the US being (still) #1, most of the rankings are debatable. “Regional” vs “global” is maybe a more useful distinction than 1st, 2nd, 3rd rate etc.

          I’d rate China as first-class on the basis of its economic hold over the United States, sort of like Venice and 12th century Byzantium.

          • starfish

            You may well be right without getting all Clauswitzian!

        • Fran800

          I can’t agree that Japan is a power at all since it basically has no military. It’s important economically, but not a world power since that requires a military.

          • starfish

            Japan has a very powerful military

            • 3ly

              the US

      • starfish


        Depends how you define it. Global or regional?

        For example saudi arabia is certainly a regional power but not global except in an economic sense

        While obama is doing his best to pi$$ it away I think the US is still the only first rate global power in every sense: political economic and military

        Second order powers that are in all three spheres are probably China albeit without global military reach, Russia and potentially Japan although politically and militarily it is rather regionally focussed

        The BRICs are still developing and are of lower rank while there still some European states in the third tier like France and the UK. I would not include Germany as its military potential is comparatively low although it us clearly important economically and politically.

        The point is in this case it is a regional problem with global effect. The internal incoherencis of islam will be the downfall of ISIS but not before the deaths of many people I fear

    • Unenlightened_Commentary

      1st rate- USA.
      2nd rate- China
      3rd rate- UK, France, Germany, Russia, Japan, Brazil.

  • LadyDingDong

    No need for those murderous barbarians to hate the EU when we more intelligent and civilised Christian and Jewish Brits can fill in for them.

  • BarkingAtTreehuggers

    It must be plain weird not to be hated by foreigners.
    I mean, look at Norway – no one hates them, even after awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to Gore and then Obozo. No one kept their eyes open for home-grown freedom fighters however …

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …well, your army of sockpuppets is hated plenty. So, mission accomplished, troll.