Coffee House The View from 22

Watch: Douglas Murray and Ben Soffa from Palestinian Solidarity Campaign discuss anti-Semitism

30 July 2014

30 July 2014

In this week’s Spectator, Melanie Phillips suggests that anti-Semitism is on the rise, fueled by the events in the Middle East. Douglas Murray and Ben Soffa, Secretary of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, discuss whether this is the case in this week’s View from 22 video special.

Here’s an extract from Melanie’s piece. The full article will be available tomorrow:

The mask has been torn away. Supposedly anti-Israel protests over the Gaza war have convulsed Europe in the worst scenes of open Jew-hatred since the 1930s. In Paris, predominantly Muslim mobs screaming ‘death to the Jews’ have repeatedly tried to storm synagogues, torched cars and burnt Jewish-owned shops to the ground. In Berlin, demonstrators shouted ‘Gas the Jews’ while an imam beseeched Allah to ‘count and kill Zionist Jews to the very last one’.

In Britain, physical and verbal attacks on Jews have doubled. One woman was assaulted by a group of 50 protestors who heard her discussing Gaza on her mobile phone. Shouting ‘get her’ they surrounded and pushed her, calling her a Jew, Zionist, murderer and thief.

People are aghast. Yet this lynch-mob mentality has been building for years. Every time Israel takes military action to prevent further Palestinian attacks, it is falsely presented as the aggressive persecutor of the innocent.

Unless British Jews join this demonisation, they are deemed complicit with Israel’s ‘war crimes’. As a result, attacks on British Jews always spike during Israel’s wars. So much for the supposed distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism.


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Show comments
  • Innit Bruv

    PS: Thank you Spectator for enabling these sort of discussions.,

  • Innit Bruv

    Listen to what Henry Siegman,the former national director of the American Jewish Congress,has to say:”A slaughter of the innocents.” Democracy Now! Wed. July 30.
    He is far better qualified than the rest of us!!!!!

  • Alexsandr

    BBC reporting Hamas have broken the terms of the ceasefire, and Israel are resuming their operations in Gaza.

  • Mike

    A joke with a point !

    Eight-year-old
    Mohammad entered his classroom on the first day of school.
    “What’s your name?” asked the teacher.
    “Mohammad,” he
    replied.
    “You’re in Ireland now,” replied the teacher, “so from
    now on you will be known as Frank.”
    Mohammad returned home
    after school.
    “How was your day, Mohammad?” his mother
    asked.
    “My name is no longer Mohammad. I’m in Ireland now and my name is
    Frank.”
    “What?” she said. “Are you ashamed of your name? Are
    you trying to dishonor your parents, your heritage, your religion? Shame on
    you!” And his mother beat him. Then she called his father,
    who beat him again.

    The next day when Mohammad returned to
    school the teacher saw all of his bruises.
    “What happened to
    you, Frank?” she asked.
    “Well shortly after becoming Irish I
    was attacked by two …….
    Arabs.”

  • Innit Bruv

    “Truth has to matter zzzzzzzzzzz……… At long last people are getting a more accurate representation of the Israel/Palestine conflict: that of a European settler state founded on terrorism and on the ethnic cleansing and brutalizing of an indigenous population that had been living on that land for centuries, All of this to solve what was a European problem:namely the barbarity of countries like Russia,Poland,Germany etc etc……
    How much longer do the Palestinians have pay for the crimes of others?
    Sorry Douglas,the tide has turned,your rhetoric is good twenty years past its sell by date,people are no longer being duped!!!!

    • Augustus

      “How much longer do the Palestinians have pay for the crimes of others?”

      Ever heard of hate crime? For that is what Islam has always been about. Yahweh and Allah could never walk through the same door together, and the reason lies with Islam.

    • mikecg

      At what point do we consider a population to be “indigenous”? Where did Saladin and his conquerors come from; did they grow naturally from the ground?

  • pedestrianblogger

    If you object, in principle, to civilians being killed by military force then you should protest, march, tweet or blog whenever they are. If you only do so when they are killed by a particular military force then your objection to their killing is not in principle but to the identity of the military force doing the killing. Why should Israel be held to a different standard from that which is applied to Isis, for example?

    • cartimandua

      A sort of perverse racism where only lucky western people are accounted fully responsible for their actions.
      Little brown people (aaw) never are.

  • Mike

    This whole mess is a bit like feral kids who constantly torment another kid and when he eventually retalites, the kids doing the tormenting run like cowards to their teacher for protection. Sadly in this case, its Hamas doing the tormenting and when
    Israel retaliates they put Palestinians in the way to protect themselves.

  • jack

    Douglas Murray criticises armchair experts from his armchair. Mind boggling.

  • Alienwoman

    What is extraordinary is that even Al Jazeera has produced evidence that it is mainly males of fighting age who are being killed.

    • mikecg

      Do you have a link for this?

  • Meghan Nova

    Bring Israel in front of the International Criminal Court for war crimes

    http://www.sgoal.org/Bring-Israel-in-front-of-the-International-Criminal-Court-for-war-crimes

    • Andy

      Lets bring Hamas in front of the International Criminal Court for war crimes. Lets bring Isis in front of the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity.

      • Alexsandr

        and ISIS

    • Augustus

      Hamas stands for Death and Destruction. If that’s not resolved you’ll still be reading this same story in 10 years time.

  • Mike

    As usual, an excellent, truthful and factual debate from Douglas Murray compared to the racist & bigotted propoganda from the BBC & Sky news.

    • Pat Conway

      Factual debate from Murray? Why isn’t Murray in Gaza?

      • Ordinaryman

        If I’m not mistaken, neither are you in Gaza, so, based on your comment, why are you entering this debate?

        • Pat Conway

          I could ask the same thing of you.

          • Ordinaryman

            I haven’t questioned Murray’s right to voice an opinion, which you appeared to have done.

            • Pat Conway

              Why do you question my right to have an opinion then?

              • Ordinaryman

                I do not, I merely point out the apparent hypocrisy in criticising Murray for voicing his opinions from the comfort of an armchair, when you are doing the same thing. If, of course, you are in the thick of it either in Gaza or Israel, then I withdraw my comments.

                • Pat Conway

                  Murray is an armchair critic. The majority of opinions voiced on here come from people who are not in the Middle East.

                • Ordinaryman

                  Which includes you and so, brings the point of this exchange to an end!

                • Tigger

                  I, however, have travelled widely in the Middle East for the past 15 years…..
                  And I have seriously considered entering Gaza in the full knowledge I might well be killed by Israeli gunfire. Because no-one here really cares about the Palestinians, but they care about their own.
                  The only thing that stops me is that, being an aging female, I’d be more of a liability than an asset to the people under fire.

                • mikecg

                  And what are you?

                • cartimandua

                  journos no longer in Gaza have spoken about their inability to report anything Hamas doesn’t like (or they swim with the fishes)

      • Mike

        Only those that are prepared to spread Hamas propaganda are invited into Gaza and given safe haven. You might be delusional over the facts but anyone who is known to report the truth would be held hostage or dead if they tried to go into Gaza right now. Hamas only shows you what it wants you to see.

  • Roger Hudson

    Anti-semitism has always been a core problem in European societies, from the Atlantic to the Urals.
    If all jews, whether invisible assimilated like some British MPs or orthodox Hasidim , were accepted into societies on an equal footing to christians then Herzel would never have needed to write ‘The Jewish State’ and there would have been no zionism and Britain would not have promised the mandated land west of the Jordan to both jews and arabs at the same time.
    We are where we are and there is no way out but a war to the end of expelling one group or the other. I fear for the future.

    • Augustus

      Jews in the modern era actually began migrating in what was later to become Palestine under the Mandate as early as 1892 (still part of the Ottoman Empire) where they joined those few Jews who had been there since ancient times. There were also very few Arabs settled in the region at that time, and those that were there tended to be nomads. Herzl didn’t publish Der Judenstaat until 1896, and he said: “The idea I have developed in this pamphlet is an ancient one: It is the restoration of the Jewish State.” On the principle: “We are a people—one people.”

      We are where we are now, of course, mainly because later Britain placed restrictions on Jewish immigration because the influx of Jewish settlers was said to be forcing the Arab fellahin (native peasants) from their land. This was at a time when less than a million people lived in an area that now supports more than nine million. And because Colonial Secretary Winston Churchill severed nearly four-fifths of Palestine to create a brand new Arab entity, Transjordan. A consolation prize for the Hejaz and Arabia (which are both now Saudi Arabia) going to the Saud family, so Churchill rewarded Sherif Hussein’s son Abdullah for his contribution to the war against Turkey in WW1 by installing him as Transjordan’s emir.

      • mightymark

        “Jews in the modern era”

        Worth adding that except, I believe, for a brief period of expulsion during the crusades, Jews had always lived there albeit in relatively small numbers. They constituted a majority in Jerusalem by the mid 19thC.

        • Augustus

          “where they joined those few Jews who had been there since ancient times.”

      • Alexsandr

        you say ‘There were also very few Arabs settled in the region at that time, and those that were there tended to be nomads.’ I have no reason to doubt you but wonder if you have a reference for that.

        • Augustus

          The Bedouin were traditionally pastoral nomadic Arab tribes living in the Negev and other contiguous desert regions. Those regions had been very sparsely populated by settled peoples. There had been many desert tribal wars until, during Ottoman rule, a process of forced sedentism was imposed on the Negev Bedouin in the latter half of the 19th Century, which was accelerated after the fall of Turkish imperialism and under British Mandate rule. Many new settlement towns and villages were established which simply hadn’t been there before.

          • Alexsandr

            so you are saying what is now Israel was, until the late 19th century, largely undeveloped, just used by tent dwellers. I have heard this but have you a reference for this.

            • Damaris Tighe

              A reference work – which has been challenged btw – is Peters’s ‘Since Time Immemorial’. The author was engaged to do some research for Arafat & then changed sides. However, I don’t think it’s true to say that even in the late 19th century Israel was only inhabited by nomads. There were Arab towns. But there was a large immigration of Arabs from surrounding countries after the economy improved due to Jewish immigration. Both Jews & Arabs had indigenous & immigrant communities. That’s the real point. The ‘Palestinians’ are no less ‘immigrant’ than the Jews. The Jews are no less indigenous than the Arabs.

            • Jonathan Levy

              Various travelers’ books to Palestine before the 20th century mention the empty state of the land. Mark Twain’s ‘The Innocents Abroad’ contains some noteworthy remarks.

              • Alexsandr

                i looked at that and found it was discredited. But I dont know who did the discrediting and what their agenda was.

                • Jonathan Levy

                  Those are usually good reasons not to consider it discredited :)

        • mikecg
  • Weasel

    Douglas Murray complains about ‘distortion’ and then completely (& deliberately) misrepresents Jon Snow’s report. Murray says ‘in situations like this everyone becomes a counter terrorism expert’ – with the implication that the majority of people should refrain from any kind of speculation – before he immediately launches into his own speculation about the potential consequences of any alteration to the current siege (of course Murray is an expert because… um, well, gosh, he writes fact free magazine columns for this less than intellectual rag – so he bally-well should be listened to what-what?). He also presumes to speak for Israel – while completely disregarding the fact there are many within Israel itself protesting against this campaign as pointless, stupid & counterproductive. What Murray & Philips seems incapable of asking – and the same goes for most of the other wingnuts – is how Israel can possibly gain from this action. At best stalement – more likely a wave of retaliation at home & increased ambivalence towards Israel overseas. Murray is just a typical Netanyu dupe, backing a weak Israeli PM who’s looking for a poll bump. And as a Jew I really could personally do without brainless dimwits like Murray & Philips claiming to speak on my behalf.

    • Augustus

      Why didn’t Jon Snow show any pictures of members of Hamas with their weapons inside the hospital? And why didn’t he go anywhere near the bunkers, or the operating rooms where members of Hamas are treated? Or ask patients at the hospital how they feel while Hamas uses it as a place to hide and see media teams? Wouldn’t that qualify as a world-class scoop? But he dare not, it’s the same cowardly dhimmi attitude as the BBC, CNN, whoever, all because of the fear of being interrogated and threatened by Hamas. Instead all we get is the wounded children show. Misrepresents Jon Snow’s report? You’re nuts!

      • Donafugata

        Thanks for that, Augustus.

        How hard-hearted I have become that I can now see wounded children and not give a fig.

        As with the chemical weapons “evidence” in Syria which was meant to make the case for intervention, I have become developed my critical faculties.

        Grab some kiddies, send them to make-up to have stage blood and stuff daubed on their bodies, put toothpaste in their mouths to look like foaming and then poke the kid until it cries.

        And then, what is really in those white bundles they carry while running around screaming?

        I find such crude propaganda an insult to my intelligence.

        • Augustus

          That’s a red herring. Everybody in the world deplores seeing wounded children, except Hamas, of course, who thrive on that propaganda. Which is indeed ‘crude’ because they follow a culture of death. They admit that themselves. Everybody knows that, Jon Snow knows that. Israel is pummeling the Palestinian wing of the Muslim Brotherhood. That’s what they are about, insulting to your intelligence, or not.

  • Liz

    But you know, it’s not okay to kill and disable children. It really isn’t. Not even to defend yourself.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …since when?

    • serialluncher

      The Israelis agree which is why they do not target children.

      • thomasaikenhead

        Really, so how DO the IDF kill and maim so many Palestinian children in Gaza?

        Is it by accident, did they really not know that children live in one of the most densely populated places on earth?

        • Alexsandr

          maybe they IDF have special child seeking missiles. There again maybe someone put the kids in harms way.

          • thomasaikenhead

            Alexsandr,

            How many Israeli children were killed by Hamas missiles?

            How many Palestinian children were killed or maimed in Operation Protective Edge, Operation Pillar of Cloud and Operation Cast Lead?

            Thousands!

            Do you really think that the world will continue to stand by and tolerate Israel launching a pogrom every few years just to satisfy domestic political extremists and coalition politics?

            In the past Israel could suppress the details and prevent the world knowing the truth but now technology and social media ensure that the results of Israeli brutality are known all over the world.

            • Alexsandr

              I think Israel has the right to defend itself from a load of islamist nutters who deny the right of Israel to exist and whose ‘holy’ book tells them to kill Jews, Infidels, Christians and apostates, and who indiscriminately fire rockets at its (israels) people. This is all well documented -do keep up.
              and as I have said before, just think what Hamas would do if they were to mange to occupy some or all of Israel.
              And remember Hamas are the same lot as ISIS. yes ISIS who ethnicaly cleansed Christians from Mosul, and want to slice the genitals of all child bearing women, removing the clitoris. Also consider how many ISIS have killed.

              • thomasaikenhead

                Alexsandr,

                As the whole world knows, Israel is NOT defending itself from a credible military threat, after all two thousand missiles caused only three fatalities, more people died in road accidents during that period!

                What will be interesting to see is how much longer the Israeli people will support Operation Protective Edge, especially as Israeli casualties mount now the IDF will have to commit ground troops into terrain where a well-placed enemy lie in wait for them!

                The Israeli people may not care for Palestinian civilians dying and being maimed in their thousands but how keen they are on military action when their own people start to get wounded and die is quite a different matter.

                • Alexsandr

                  so how many Israelis would hamas have to kill to make it OK to defend themselves. If IDF hadnt provided proper air raid shelters then you would have been satisfied as Israelis would have been killed. Same with the Israeli SAMs
                  I reckon the Israelis are well up for it. Imagine day after day, night after night there are massive explosions as Hamas rockets hit, or blow up in the air shot down by SAMs. Wondering if the next one is for you. And spending time running for the air raid shelters. Imagine the stress year after year.
                  There was a bit on R4 about deaf Israelis. they dont hear the air raid sirens. when do they go to the shelters?
                  The IDF give notice of air strikes. Hamas tell their people to go and get blown up for the glory of Allah. So they get good pictures on TV news. Its a propganda war Hamas are fighting and, judging by your comments, are winning amongst the naive.

                  Hamas want to destroy Israel. Its in their charter. And its in the Koran and loads of fatwas if you can be bothered to look. But an anti jewish rant is easier.
                  No Im not Jewish. An atheist aware of the islamist threat.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Alexsandr,

                  You are looking at the issue from the wrong perspective, there is no question of how many fatalities from Hamas rockets it would take to justify the Palestinian casualties but rather the simple fact that three fatalities from over two thousand rockets fired proves that the Hamas rockets are not a credible military threat.

                  The IDF is well aware that Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet, that the Israeli blockade mean that the inhabitants cannot flee and the IDF is very well aware that the bombing attacks will cause massive civilian casualties, especially after Operation Cast Lead and Operation Pillar of Cloud.

                  Now, having established that Hamas rockets do not prove a credible military threat, any talk of Israel having to ‘defend’ itself is clearly not true.

                  The fact that such a policy has been tried twice in recent years and has totally failed either to destroy Hamas or end the rockets, it is clear that Operation Protective Edge is ‘disproportionate’ and a ‘collective punishment’, hence the talk of the IDF committing war crimes.

                • Alexsandr

                  when Hamas rockets kill israelis or they use the tunnels to commit a massacre in isreal, OK then to attack?
                  or do we need 100 dead israelis before its OK to attack. That will be 100 sons, daughters, husbands, wives and parents?
                  So the rules of war have changed in that you cant attack until you have taken casualties now?

                  What rubbish you talk.
                  Hamas could have stopped all this a month ago by stopping the rockets.

                • Amon Duul

                  Israel chose to start this to derail Palestinian solidarity. Everyone knows that, except a few extreme rightists.

                • Alexsandr

                  Ahhh. another leftie troll.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Aleksandr,

                  Not at all, Amon is correct as this quote makes clear;

                  Nathan Thrall, senior Mid East analyst at the International Crisis Group, writing in the New York Times: “The current escalation in Gaza is a direct result of the choice by Israel and the West to obstruct the implementation of the April 2014 Palestinian reconciliation agreement.”

                • mikecg

                  And what exactly is “Palestinian solidarity”? Israel is supposed to stand idly by while overtly genocidal terrorist organization joins forces with a covertly genocidal terrorist organization?

                • Amon Duul

                  Palestinian unity is what Israel fears, and the reason why it started this latest round of the conflict.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Alexsandr,

                  The issue remains the conduct of the IDF because the deliberate targeting of civilians in several operations in recent years has resulted in the deaths of thousands of Palestinian civilians and tens of thousands being maimed, the majority being women and children, not a hypothetical discussion about abstract issues.

                  Once again, the rockets are not the issue because when over two thousand were fired, only three fatalities resulted. This is still three too many but does not change the fact that the behaviour of the IDF was not a rational, proportionate response to a military threat.

                  As for your claim that Hamas is responsible for the conflict as a result of firing missiles, this does not hold up under scrutiny, as made clear with these quotes;

                  Times of Israel: “Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn’t fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012.”

                  The Nation: “During ten days of Operation Brother’s Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011.”

                  So in fact it is Israel that repeatedly precipitates conflict by aggressive, unilateral actions, NOT Hamas!

                • allymax bruce

                  It’s another Israel land-grab of Palestine; with Massive crimes Against Humanity Murderous methods used by Israel.

                • Donafugata

                  It is not for the want of trying that Hamas has not killed the entire population of Israel.

                  They would if they could but they prefer to provoke and then sacrifice their kiddies for the propaganda war which they know is the only one they could possibly win.

                  Islamists should put something in the water and finish off the whole tribe maybe then they will be happily united with their Allah.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Dona,

                  The issue is not the wishes of Hamas but rather the actions of the IDF that have caused the deaths of thousands of Palestinians and tens of thousands more to be maimed in Operations Cast Lead, Pillar of Cloud and Protective Edge.

                  The IDF is deliberately targeting innocent civilians each time, not acting against a credible military threat.

                  These policies of collective punishment and disproportionate violence do not work as Hams is never beaten and the rockets do not stop but still the IDF kills thousands of Palestinians and maims many more, most of them women and children.

                • Amon Duul

                  So you call for mass nuder of Muslims? Nice.

            • allymax bruce

              Allelujah.

            • mikecg

              The amount of casualties is not the deciding factor in who is or is not right in a given conflict.

              The Israelis are fighting off an enemy sworn to their annihilation. What do you not understand about that?

              I see that practically all of your Disqus comments are dedicated to criticizing Israelis. Why do you not have as much passion for the innocent Syrians and the atrocities committed by ISIS? Is it only a “pogrom” when committed by Jews? You couldn’t care less about the innocent Palestinian children.

              • thomasaikenhead

                mikecg,

                “The amount of casualties is not the deciding factor in who is or is not right in a given conflict.”

                Nobody every claimed that it was, the issue here is the use of disproportionate force by the IDF and the deliberate targeting of innocent Palestinian civilians.

                As for my comments, you seem unable to distinguish between criticising policies of the Netanyahu administration and criticising Israelis.

                There is a difference you know, even if you cannot distinguish it.

      • Donafugata

        And each evening we hear the number of women and children.
        It seems that men tend to be immune to Israeli fire.

      • Amon Duul

        But they still kill hundreds of them.

    • Baron

      Liz, imagine you are facing a man, surrounded tightly by kids, who aims a fully loaded AK-47 at you, you are holding the same gun aiming at him and the kids. Are you trying to tell us you would rather die than shoot first because of the kids?

      • Damaris Tighe

        These are the sort of existential questions that a lot of westerners can no longer deal with – too soft, too pampered, too self-defeating.

        • Baron

          Quite, Damaris, to pontificate, take the high moral ground, sitting in a comfy chair is one thing, to live, as the israelis must, under conditions where you constantly fear for your life is another. Baron bets you Liz is sitting comfortably …

          • Damaris Tighe

            All these idiot commentators are pontificating from their armchairs with a complete lack of imagination & empathy for the Israelis, despite spouting high-flown stuff about ‘humanity’. It’s all abstract, unreal emoting, wish-fulfilment.

            • Pat Conway

              Shame Douglas Murray doesn’t take himself off to Gaza and experience what it is like to be under constant bombardment instead of criticising Jon Snow.

              • Damaris Tighe

                Oh p*ss off back to the Jon Snow page.

                • Pat Conway

                  Yes, you are only an idiot commentator if you don’t agree with Israel. Very good observation there.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  You made the exact same comment, followed by many more that weren’t worth answering, on the Jon Snow page. It’s getting boring. I like debating with bright intelligent people, not drones.

                • Pat Conway

                  You can’t be very bright or intelligent if you call people idiots for not sharing your opinion.

              • HookesLaw

                Or take himself off to Israel to experiance life under Hamas rockets? Snow is a bigot – like you.
                Who was going to stop Hamas firing rockets or raiding through tunnels? The UN? Jon Snow?
                Who – ? Not you I think. I think you would rather like to see every israeli with his/her throat cut.

                There would be no Israeli incursion if there had been no Hamas rockets.

                • Pat Conway

                  Why is Snow a bigot? Jon Snow is a journalist reporting the facts from Gaza.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You might remember that re your murderous islamofascist buddies in Libya and Syria, who you Camerloons lovingly support, laddie.

                • Alexsandr

                  we must remember if there was a sucessful islamic invasion and occupation of Israel. He have seen what Hamas’ friends in ISIS do. I think there would be a second holocaust.
                  then you wonder why israel defends herself robustly. Its fight or be annihilated.

          • Amon Duul

            Try living under the sub human conditions of Gaza.

            • Baron

              Amon, if you live there yourself, you have more than Baron’s sympathy. It must be awful, you have nowhere to run, hide, escape it all. The solution you and others like you may try is not that hard, may work: get rid of Hamas, vote in a bunch that can make peace with Israel.

      • mightymark

        Or to take a better, and perhaps more apposite analogy, suppose you are with your OWN kids at the time!

      • allymax bruce

        Baron, imagine you’re walking through a street, where you, and other people are packing AK-47’s; would you think that street, town, city, country is a Modern Democracy with a ‘rule of law’?
        Living in a ‘rule of law’ Democracy takes your ‘imagined’ premise out of the equation; what you espouse is anarchic chaos jungle law. Or, a Totalitarian State where everybody packs AK-47’s. Now, where in the Middle East is that happening?

        • Baron

          Well, to start with, allymax, it’s happening, the ‘anarchic chaos jungle law’ not just on an ad hoc basis, but permanently in places like Libya, Iraq, Syria … You haven’t noticed, have you?

          Also, Baron can well imagine a country where everyone ‘packs AK-47s’ because a foreign power is about to invade, the good burghers of the democracy are ready for it.

          • allymax bruce

            “Well, to start with, allymax, it’s happening, the ‘anarchic chaos jungle law’ not just on an ad hoc basis, but permanently in places like Libya, Iraq, Syria … You haven’t noticed, have you?” ….. Of-course I’ve noticed, Baron, but these countries aren’t ‘rule of law’ Democracies anymore. They’ve been made into said anarchic chaos jungle law.
            So, my point remains; if Israel is going to act like murderous terrorists, then how can they expect to decry ‘other’ murderous terroists? Moreover, Hamas are only targeting Israeli soldiers; Israel are targeting civilians, and are culpable under International law for War Crimes. In-deed, Israel is multi-culpable for Crimes Against Humanity also, because it’s being funded by Democratic countries that only subsidise under the auspice of Democratic ethics to said subsidised beneficiary; Israel.

            • Baron

              Listen, allymax, we have to agree to keep to our different views. Baron will never ever side with the lot you’re backing because their construct has FA to do with any civilised rules of behaviour, the rule of law, freedom of this or the other, they’re pure, unadulterated thugs.

              Democracies often behave badly, commit atrocities, slip, just look what we’re doing in Ukraine, but the construct has mechanisms for corrective action, even if it seldom uses them. The other side has no such thing. This is what cuts it for Baron, it’s that simple.

              Truce?

              • allymax bruce

                Of-course Truce, Baron. I’m not taking sides; I’m a Christian, that can never trust Israel ever again now. We are only discussing the vagaries of human evil; regardless of what side you are on. I just think there’s better ways to do things. Israel are showing themselves to be a blunt relic of early 18th century un-adulterated Agression. Israel is certainly not fit to expect respect from the World.
                And Israel is certainly unfit & dangerous to be holding nuclear weapons. Israel must be absolved from being allowed to hold nuclear weapons, by the UN Security Council, ASAP !

                http://www.ifeveryoneknew.com/read?article=8

                • mikecg

                  “I just think there’s better ways to do things.”
                  And what would that be?

                  “Israel is certainly not fit to expect respect from the World.”
                  What exactly is the “world”? Why should Israel, or any sovereign country, care about the abstract “world”?

                  “Israel must be absolved from being allowed to hold nuclear weapons, by the UN Security Council, ASAP !”
                  And what gives the UN the right to dictate who can and cannot hold weapons? What gives the UN any authority whatsoever?

            • the viceroy’s gin

              “Hamas are only targeting Israeli soldiers…”

              .

              Hmmmm, I hadn’t realized that the volleys of rockets the Hamas islamofascist murderers have been firing indiscriminately at Israeli population centers were actually equipped with sophisticated targeting systems that only went after Israeli soldiers. That’s good to know.

              Hamas should patent their invention. Nobody else has that capability .

    • StephanieJCW

      It’s what happens in war. We did it, during WWII.

      • Pat Conway

        It’s not war it’s a massacre.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          If you’re talking massacre, you must be talking about the islamofascists .

    • mightymark

      Supposing its their kids or your kids? If it comes down to that, do you owe theirs or yours the greater responsibility?

  • Eamonn Riley

    The riots in Paris were started by the JDL.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Yeah, all those thousands of young muslim men were as placid as cows, peace-loving & had no intention of looking for a fight. The baseball bats were symbols of inner harmony.

      • mikecg

        The racism of the left is endemic. They hold that Muslims are not able to control their tribal instincts (how could they after centuries of western subjugation?) and are thus never held responsible for anything, ever.

  • Damaris Tighe

    Just heard Israel spokesman Dore Gold on Radio 4 – he was excellent. They also interviewed several ordinary Israelis – they were a credit to their people, cared about what was happening in Gaza but saw no other option.

    • Eamonn Riley

      No other option, try making peace.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …just as soon as the islamofascist murderers quit firing volleys of rockets.

      • Ordinaryman

        You can only make peace with peaceful people. You can only reason with reasonable people. Continuosly firing rockets is neither peaceful or reasonable.

        • Pat Conway

          Continuously shelling the civilian population of Gaza is neither peaceful or reasonable.

          • Augustus

            Haven’t you realized by now? Israel have taken to Jihad.

            • Damaris Tighe

              Augustus, can I respectfully suggest you ignore this troll? I’ve looked at his comments records – he does just Israel & Christianity, always negative.

              • Augustus

                Agree.

              • Pat Conway

                Believe in the fairy tale of Christianity all you want. Talking snakes anyone?

                • allymax bruce

                  Pat, ‘talking snakes’ is the old Judeo testament; Christianity is only the New Testament. This con of forcing Christians to think Judaism is the root of Christianity is the biggest con done by Judaism to Christianity. Christians already see the Light; Jesus came to save those who don’t hear; He even ‘chose’ them particularly because He knew they couldn’t keep their old covenant with God. If I knew who the destroyer of worlds was, I would also try to talk some sense onto them. But they crucified Him. No difference now. Christianity is not the old testament / covenant , God made with Abraham, Christianity is the New Testament & Covenant with God through Jesus.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …says you.

                • allymax bruce

                  Well it wasn’t your goat Hiram!

                  He only talks to you!
                  Roll-up. Roll-up. Roll-up, and see G-strings talking goat; but only he can hear it !

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Can any other of you socialist nutters translate this nutter’s gibberish?

          • Ordinaryman

            You are correct, the shelling of Gaza is not peaceful. But, contrary to what you have said, self-protection is very reasonable. It’s an unfortunate fact, that when dealing with an aggressively unreasonable person, it is very often necessary to use physical force.
            Ask yourself, why aren’t the Palestinians doing more to protect themselves and their children, our parents/grandparents did during WW2. They built air-raid shelters and the children where sent away to other areas to protect them from the bombing and please don’t make the excuse that there’s nowhere to send them, Israel is not carpet bombing Gaza. The Palestinian parents must accept responsibility for the deaths of their children for more reasons than one. Supporting Hamas being the other reason.
            Understand this, Israel is not going away. The existing borders are there through conquest after the Israelis were forced to fight in defence against an Arab invasion. There are many countries in Europe which now have borders that are a result of a relatively recent war. Do you propose to amend these back to their historical positions?

            • Amon Duul

              No one least of all the Palestinian leadership is asking for Israel to go away. They are asking for the state that they were promised.

              • Ordinaryman

                And their request is attached to the front of a barrage of randomly fired rocket?? Some way of asking!

      • Baron

        How do you make peace with someone who says he only wants to kill you? Are you negotiating the kind of tool with which he can kill you, the speed of it or what?

      • mikecg

        See: 1948 partition plan, Madrid, Oslo, Camp David

  • Bonkim

    Why should you take criticism of Israel’s abominable acts in Gaza as anti-Semitic?

    • Augustus

      The terrorist society that inhabits the Gaza strip teaches its children to hate and kill the Jew from birth. It is a culture of death and destruction that celebrates the concept of genocide and the massacre of innocents. How can any decent culture consider such a society to be worth defending or sympathizing with? It’s hard to attain any sort of peace agreement when you are up against a culture that teaches blind hate from such a young age.

      • Bonkim

        I bet you will have blind hate and teach your children to eliminate a group of foreigners that invaded your land and threw you out.

        • Damaris Tighe

          Beware of the Welsh.

        • Augustus

          You’re obviously wilfully ignorant of the way the IDF warns Gazans to get out before they bomb a target. Hamas holds people at gunpoint to keep them in place. Hamas has gone on TV telling people to go and ‘bare their chests’ to the IDF’s bombs to become ‘martyrs for Palestine.’ Hamas has even ordered the UN’s stat collectors to stop naming the dead so they can’t be proven to be fighters instead of civilians. And, last but not least, It’s Hamas that calls all Israeli children legitimate targets for death, since someday those children might end up joining the IDF.

          • Bonkim

            Are you an agent of the occupying power in Palestine – you are not doing to well convincing Israel’s innocence.

            • Augustus

              Are you an agent provocateur?

          • thomasaikenhead

            Augustus,

            Far too many schools, hospitals and centres packed with refugees have been hit for anyone to believe that the IDF warns Gazans before the strike.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …I believe it, and there is plenty of evidence that it’s true.

              There are now 3 different UN run schools that have been found with rockets stored in them. The islamofascists’ rockets are the reasons behind this operation. They will be destroyed.

              • thomasaikenhead

                gin,

                You might but the continued refusal of Israel to allow independent assessment of the actions of the IDF tells a very different story!

                These rockets caused THREE Israeli dates, Palestinians have died in their hundreds and been maimed in their thousands in a class example of the use of ‘disproportionate force’, collective punishment and the implementation of the Dahiya doctrine! by the IDF!

                Little wonder that there is talk of prosecuting Israel for war crimes after the way it has deliberately targeted Palestinian civilians.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, the IDF is not targeting civilians. It’s the islamofascist Hamas murderers who do that, by indiscriminately firing volleys of rockets as Israeli civilians. That’s what triggered this operation.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  gin,

                  There IDF IS deliberately targeting civilians because it is heavily bombing densely packed civilian areas, it is not dropping its bombs on an enemy situated on a battlefield.

                  Operation Cast Lead and Operation Pillar of Cloud also caused massive civilian casualties so the IDF cannot possibly claim that it is not aware of the consequences of its actions upon thousands of innocent civilians who will be killed or crippled by its munitions.

                  Clearly I am not alone in my sentiments, hence the UN suggestion that war crimes have been committed.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, the IDF is deliberately targeting islamofascist Hamas murderers. This is perfectly legitimate, as we know historically. Sorry, but you’re just wrong on your assertions.

                  Clearly, you are not alone in not understanding what’s happening here, and yes you’re joined by many others who are equally lacking in understanding.

                  Sorry, but the next step is for the islamofascist Hamas murderers to cease firing volleys of rockets at Israeli civilians. When that criminal activity stops, the follow on steps will likely include a cease fire .

                  The UN is quite neutral on this, you’ll find . So are the rest of the Mideast thugocrats. They know these islamofascists murderers must be dealt with, better than anybody.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  gin,

                  It is not a question of me or anyone else ‘not understanding’ but rather the opposite, a case of understanding far too well.

                  After all the IDF attacks on Palestinians civilians in Gaza that kill thousands and wound tens of thousands more is hardly anything new is it, after all who can forget operation Cast Lead and Operation Pillar of Defense?

                  Apart from the heavy toll on innocent Palestinians, these operations share several other characteristics, they are not a response to a real military threat to Israel nd they all FAIL.

                  Israel has tried to destroy Hamas for decades and has failed to do so, and Hamas will still exist as an effective organisation after Operation Protective Edge ends.

                  They always fail to stop the rockets as it will always be possible for groups in Gaza to make more or smuggle more in.

                  As for Cast Lead, the IDF failed to find Gilad Shalit too!

                  So apart from deliberately massacring civilians, the IDF is repeatedly unable to achieve its objectives in the operations launched against Gaza!

                • Jonathan Levy

                  It is quite impossible to disentangle all the misconceptions underlying each of your paragraphs. I will address but one, in the hopes that clarifying the depths of one misunderstanding will stand as a warning about all the rest.

                  You say “Israel has tried to destroy Hamas”, “Hamas will still exist”, “They always fail to stop the rockets”, etc. Having so loudly foretold the failure of Operation Protective Edge to destroy Hamas, you have never stopped to question whether this is its purpose.

                  In this, you are utterly mistaken. It is true that in the past Israel has tried to destroy Hamas and failed. But Israel’s objective is launching this operation was to deter Hamas from firing rockets into Israel. The basis for this hope is the second Lebanese War, which, though judged a partial failure at the time, has nonetheless resulted in eight years without a single rocket launch from Hezbollah into Israel.

                  There are certainly Israeli politicians who believe this policy is a mistake, and call for the complete destruction of Hamas. Netanyahu has so far rejected this policy – whether wisely or foolishly remains to be seen – because of the excessive casualties it can be expected to cause on both sides. If the current attempt at deterrence fails, the next round of fighting might have a different purpose.

                  That this is the objective of the current round of fighting is plain to anyone who reads the Israeli press, and is best judged by following the Israeli press – admittedly not easy to do for those who can’t read Hebrew. But in judging Israeli intentions, you have allowed yourself to be guided by the likes of CNN and the BBC, who blindly follow Hamas propaganda, and have thus led you to an erroneous conclusion.

                  Hamas likes to imagine that Israel’s intention is always to destroy it utterly, just as Saddam Hussein in 1991 liked to pretend that Bush was trying to destroy Iraq – it allowed him to claim victory when he discovered he was still alive. It is true that Israel would like very much to wake up one morning and find that Hamas has disappeared. It does not follow from this that every action it takes is in pursuance of that goal.

                  Your judgment on other matters – for example, the types of Palestinian casualties, the nature of the threat to Israeli civilians – has been similarly led astray by uncritical consumption of the one-sided reporting which is all too typical of the western media.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Johnathan Levy,

                  “That this is the objective of the current round of fighting is plain to anyone who reads the Israeli press, and is best judged by following the Israeli press – admittedly not easy to do for those who can’t read Hebrew.”

                  You don’t need to read the Israeli press or speak Hebrew to know that, once again, Israel has once again launched an attack on the Gaza Strip and the IDF has deliberately targeted innocent Palestinian civilians killing nearly two thousand and wounding many thousands more.

                  That is what all the international protests against Israel are about, why countries have recalled their ambassadors, why both the UN and the US have spoken publicly deploring the actions of Israel and why, once again, the name and image of Israel have been so badly damaged.

                • Jonathan Levy

                  You thought that Israel’s objective was to eliminate Hamas.

                  I explained that it was to deter Hamas.

                  You reply by evading the issue entirely, neither acknowledging a mistake nor disputing the point. If your habit is to ignore data which conflicts with your worldview, without examining how you were led to that worldview, then there is not much point in addressing your other misconceptions – for example, if Israel’s objective was simply to kill innocents, why send in battalions of infantry? Why lose 50 dead soldiers for what could be accomplished with a few dozen rounds of artillery?

                  So – have you reconsidered why it is that you thought it was Israel’s purpose to destroy Hamas? Do you know that this description of Israel’s objectives appears word for word in Hamas propaganda? Does it trouble you that you are spouting their ideas without even knowing it?

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Jonathan Levy, whatever you or I though about the objectives of Israel during Operation Preotective Edge, the facts on the ground are that the IDF has, once again, deliberately targeted innocent Palestinian civilians resulting in the death of nearly two thousand of them and many thousands more injured, including hundreds and hundreds of children.

                  As for the stated objective of Hamas, are you seriously claiming that an insurgent group a few hundred strong at best with rudimentary rockets and some small arms poses a credible threat to the sate of Israel which has one of the most powerful and sophisticated military forces on the planet?

                  Hamas lacks the manpower, the military hardware, the technical knowledge or the operational experience to ever be more than an irritant or nuisance to Israel.

                  There is no existential threat to Israel posed by Hamas and never will be.

                  By constantly crying wolf with regard to Hamas, Israel only serves to undermine its credibility which will prove to be counter-productive should Israel ever face a potentially serious threat in the future.

                • Jonathan Levy

                  Again, you avoid the issue *you* chose to raise when facts are presented which you cannot digest. Let us see if this is a habit or not.

                  “an insurgent group… with rudimentary rockets and some small arms poses a credible threat to the sate of Israel”

                  I noticed you did not mention suicide bombers against civilians. Perhaps this makes sense to you, because none were used successfully against civilians in this round of fighting. But why is that? In April/May 2002 civilians were being killed at the rate approaching 100 a month.

                  The threat of suicide bombers from the West Bank was extinguished by resolute military action by the IDF, the separation barrier, and eventually also by reluctant cooperation with the PA.

                  Now what are Hamas’ preconditions for a cease fire? The “end of the siege”, by which it means the end of the arms blockade plus free passage to the west bank. If a supine Israel accepts these terms, then within ten years the suicide bombers will return – plus every Arab village along the border will be lobbing mortars at its nearest neighbor on the other side. I live within mortar range of one such village.

                  I can almost see your fingers hovering over the letters of ‘paranoia’. It’s easy to type when you live a thousand miles away. When the mortars and rockets started falling sporadically after 2001, many people said it wasn’t a credible threat – and now Hamas can fire thousands over a period of a month. How much worse will it get with unlimited access to the best weaponry they can afford?

                  If Hamas wants peace, all they have to do is stop shooting rockets and stop tunneling under the border. But they don’t want peace. They want victory.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  JL,

                  Hamas did not use suicide bombers against Israeli civilians during Operation Protective Edge.

                  The IDF di, however deliberately target innocent Palestinian civilians, killing nearly two thousand and maiming thousands more.

                  Hundreds of children were killed by the IDF, including many seeking refuge in UN shelters which were repeatedly bombed by the IDF.

                  Unfortunately for Israel, technology has outstripped the Israeli ability to prevent reporting, hence the whole world can now bear witness to the IDF atrocities, hence the international reaction to the IDF actions, “Stop killing children”!

                  Little wonder that the Israeli politician who suggested that the IDF receive the Nobel Peace Prize is now a figure of ridicule and an international laughing stock!

                • Jonathan Levy

                  Yup, turns out it is a habit.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, you don’t understand, not at all.

                  Again, the islamofascist mass murderers Hamas must cease firing volleys of rockets at Israeli civilians. That is the required next step.

                  You’d be correct, the islamofascist mass murderers will keep it up, as long as the likes of you support them. They will continue to fire volleys of rockets at civilians. They are mass murdering islamofascists, afterall.

                  The only question is, when will they and you begin to understand that that is what they are?

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Gin,

                  It is very day indeed to understand, once again the IDF have launched a pogrom again the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip just as they do every few years or so, like Operation Cast Lead and Operation Pillar of Defense.

                  Once again, nearly two thousand killed and many thousands more injured.

                  These innocent civilians were once more deliberately targeted.

                  That is what the international community are protesting against.

                  Not too difficult to understand, is it?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You fantasize “the international community”, whatever that is, is on board with your buddies, islamofascist mass murderers, Hamas?

                  Dream on, lad.

                  Everybody of consequence understands those mass murdering islamofascists initiated this, with their volleys of rockets fired at innocent civilians .

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Gin,

                  The international community is not a fantasy at all, it is that very group which mobilised to impose sanctions on Iran with regard to its nuclear stance.

                  The same group moved to introduce the boycott and sanctions that were so effective against the apartheid regime in South Africa.

                  As for people of consequence, Baroness Warsi resigned from the Cameron Coalition in the UK today in a direct objection to the stance with regard to Israel and events in Gaza.

                  As she made clear recently;

                  “Can people stop trying to justify the killing of children. Whatever our politics there can never be justification, surely only regret #Gaza.”

                  She is right, there is no way to justify the IDF deliberately targeting Palestinians civilians and killing hundreds of children.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, the “international community” is a fantasy. Do you see anybody giving a rip whether Israel destroys these Hamas islamofascist murderers? Neither do I, other than the usual shrieking nutters.

                  Warsi is a nobody, who was nothing but a diversity hire. Nobody cares. Nobody. Absolutely nobody.

                  The islamofascist murderers have to cease firing volleys of rockets at Israeli civilians. That is the required next step. Absent that, what you’re witnessing right now will be repeated. I promise you that. It will be repeated, again and again, and the “international community” fantasy won’t change that. The required next step is for the islamofascist murderers to quit firing volleys of rockets. Only that will change this.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Gin,

                  Only today Netanyahu addressed ‘the international community’ so you may well consider it a fantasy but the government of Israel does not!

                  Warsi is far from a nobody, she was the former chair of the Conservative Party so cannot be dismissed by either Cameron or the party.

                  As she leads a campaign for the UK to stop supplying Israel that will inevitably lead the UK closing its airspace to US transport planes that use the UK when shipping munitions to Israel!

                  The IDF deliberately targeting innocent Palestinians killing thousands including hundreds of children is indeed being repeated as it has since Operation Cast Lead.

                  Every time Hamas survive, become stronger and stronger. Now their rockets can reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, their use of tunnels has increased and now allows them to outflank IDF ground troops and this time they even managed to cut Israel off from foreign airlines!

                  Every time that Israel attacks and fails to defeat Hamas makes Israel look weak, diminishes the prestige and reputation of the IDF and contributes to the image of Israel committing Spartan suicide!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Who cares what Bibi says, lad? His focus is on killing islamofascists, not sparring with islamofascist snugglers like you.

                  Warsi is a nobody, other than those who believe in coddling islamofascist snugglers, as you do. She’s nobody and has done nothing. Nobody cares. Nobody. She’s leading a campaign to be another blowhard lefty doing precisely nothing. Nobody cares about her. Nobody.

                  The IDF is targeting islamofascists. That is all.

                  Again, I promise you that if the islamofascist murderers don’t stop firing volleys of rockets at Israeli civilians, this will all happen again. I say this without a smidge of doubt. You’re too young to undertstand how all this works, but trust me, it is .

                  In 2-3 years, if the islamofascists build up their inventory and start mass firing rockets, Israel will do all this again. And nobody will care, just like today. Nobody cares, except you islamofascist snugglers.

                  Nobody cares about this but you. The rest of us don’t mind if islamofascist murderers are slaughtered. We prefer it, in fact. However if the islamofascist murderers tire of this, they can always cease firing rockets. That is the next required step. Absent that, we will be here again, and Israel will be back to slaughtering islamofascist murderers again.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Gin,

                  It seems ‘The Warsi Effect’ is already having an impact upon British politics as many Tory MPs agree with her that the stance taken by David Cameron is alienating millions of Muslim voters.

                  Their votes are vital in the forthcoming general election, and so whatever her personal achievements, she is acting a powerful catalyst for change!

                  As for future Israeli actions, Israel has yet to pay the price for the IDF in this conflict so it is far to early to make predictions.

                  After all, once the Israeli people sit back and count the cost, they may well turn on Bibi, not least for the fact that the Hannibal doctrine meant that it was the IDF who killed Hadar Goldin!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  So you think jabbering politicians matter? The Camerloons are about to get annihilated come next May in any event. And all the muzzies will be voting for the Millipedes, so it doesn’t matter for those reasons either.

                  Again, you’re far too young to understand what is “far too early” here, lad. Trust me, it’s plenty time to understand that the Israelis will pound the islamofascists into dust 2-3 years from now, if necessary, and nobody who matters will say a word about it. The islamofascists will be alsughtered as necessary, and the people who care know it’s necessary, as it is right now, as it has been in the past, and as it will be in the future if the islamofascists don’t cease their murderous ways.

                  You don’t seem to follow any of this much, in addition to being a young pup. The Israeli citizenry are WILDLY in support of this action. Why wouldn’t they be? A gang of murderous islamofascists is firing volleys of rockets at their innocent civilians. Only a loopy islamofascist snuggler would expect them to ignore that without annihilating the islamofascists reponsible. … you and Warsi for example.

      • Alexsandr

        they show ‘hate jews’ cartoons on Gaza TV

    • Amon Duul

      Because it is easier than getting involved in debate.

  • Slice

    Israel has embarked on a course of barbarism. For what it is doing in Gaza it should be made an international pariah.

    • Augustus

      The Israelis, at least, have learned a lesson from history – Never again!

      • Bonkim

        Their lesson was in Europe – and they appear to be practising the lesson in the Middle-East on people they took the land from..

        • Damaris Tighe

          You know, because you have been told, that over 50% of Israelis are of middle-eastern & african origin.

          • Bonkim

            Who cares?

      • Pat Conway

        Shame they treat others with such contempt.

        • Augustus

          Name one country in the world that wouldn’t have acted long ago to deal decisively with a terrorist organization camped on its border and which has disrupted and endangered the everyday lives of its citizens over the years.

          • Pat Conway

            Name a supposed civilised and democratic country that is in direct contravention of international law as regards settlements. A country also that violates international law as regards the so called right to defend itself and ignores UN resolutions.

            • allymax bruce

              Good comment, Pat.
              Israel are not a Democracy; Israel is an extreme Right Theocracy.
              But are they any different from their neighbours? Regardless, they are not a Democracy, but an extreme Theocracy with nuclear weapons. Why are we giving them $3 Biliion every year to buy more WMD’s?

              • mikecg

                Please define Democracy and Theocracy, and show me how Israel is the latter and not the former.

            • Amon Duul

              Name another country that DEMANDS that its self labelling as a x state MUST be accepted by others. You cannot because Israel is the only country that DEMANDS that others accept its self definition.

              • Damaris Tighe

                Because although the Palestinian Authority leadership of the West Bank (nb not Gaza) are willing to recognize Israel’s existence they’re not willing to recognize it as the nation state of the Jewish People. The subtext to this is they want to destroy Israel by flooding it with Palestinian refugees, thus turning Israel into a Palestinian majority state.

                Simples!

                • Amon Duul

                  Rubbish. No state other than Israel DEMANDS that others accept its self definition. Israel can call itself whatever it wants

                • Amon Duul

                  The Palestinian leadership have accepted a token right of return. You need to do some reading.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  That’s exactly what I said. I’ve said it before – you need to learn to read.

                • Amon Duul

                  You said exactly the opposite.

          • thomasaikenhead

            The UK and how it handled the decades long campaign by the IRA.

            It did not bomb Ireland, did not conductive collective punishments and did not use ‘disproportionate force’ that resulted in the deaths of thousands and the maiming of tens of thousands.

            • mightymark

              Actually I seem to recall that there were some accusations against the British Government from Republican sources, of something very like “collective punishment” especially when civilians were killed as on “Bloody Sunday” – though they were probably unfair.

              More to the point this rather silly canard keeps being raised. The answer which has been given many times is that the Irish Republic was not backing the IRA – if it had been things might have been different. One could well imagine the RAF attacking ammunition dumps for instance as the Israelis attack Hamas rocket sites.

            • Augustus

              The IRA didn’t shoot high explosive rockets over the sea into half of Britain’s town and cities driving millions of citizens into air-raid shelters with a 15 second warning. What do you think the Government would have done if they had?

              • the viceroy’s gin

                “They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.”

              • thomasaikenhead

                Augustus,

                The IRA killed many, many more British people than Hamas rockets ever have!

                How dare you try and compare the two situations!

                Three Israelis died from Hamas rocket fire before Operation Protetive Edge was launched, now hundreds of Palestinian children are dead and thousands wounded, just as they were a few years ago in Operation Pillar of Cloud and before that in Operation Cast Lead.

                Do you really think that the world will continue to sit by as Israel launches a pogrom every few years?

                What makes it all worse is the easy Israeli operation has been a total failure!

                Hamas has not been destroyed, the rockets were not silenced, this time the tunnels will not all be destroyed and Operation Cast Lead never did find Gilad Shalit, did it?

                Stupidity has been defined as doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome.

                The international comment will no longer tolerate Israel imposing a blood tax on Palestine every few years, time for Israel to realise that its failed policies provide no solution.

                Peace will come to Israel when it returns to its pre-1967 borders and the Occupied territories are no longer occupied.

                Not a new idea, land for peace, but it is now the only option for Israel.

                • Amon Duul

                  Shame on those who be little the suffering at the hands of the IRA.

              • Amon Duul

                it shot rockets into NI and at Downing Street.

    • Amon Duul

      BDS is growing daily.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    What`s the difference between the “Catholic” Daily Telegraph and the Spectator? Not a damn thing.

    • Liz

      The Catholic Herald is less sexist and doesn’t cheerlead paedos.

      • Pat Conway

        Catholic clergy are paedos.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …no, but you likely are.

  • global city

    Hopefully ‘Europe’ is beginning to understand that you reap that which you sow!

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/07/30/Danish-politician-calls-for-tougher-rules-on-Muslim-immigration

    • Damaris Tighe

      I’ve great respect for the Danes who, along with Bulgaria, were the only European countries that saved most of their Jews from the Holocaust – at great risk to themselves.

      Unlike The Netherlands which handed over most of its Jews to the Nazis. I find it significant that The Netherlands is again spineless in the face of bullying from its Muslim population.

      • global city

        Yes. You make good points.

      • Suzy61

        Quite true. These two countries showed incredible bravery in protecting their Jewish citizens.

        • Damaris Tighe

          The Dutch were & are now pathetic.

      • thomasaikenhead

        Damaris,

        What is your view on Hungary and its treatment of its Jews and the activities of Rudolf Kastner?

  • Augustus

    In various books in Muslim centres and mosques all over Europe there are insulting passages about beating women, female circumcision, as well against Jews and gays. One book tells, in ‘the way of the Muslim ‘ how gays deserve death, because the Prophet said so. And even some suggestions, ‘by Muslim scholars of the past’ as to how to go about doing it: “One searches the tallest building with a flat roof or terrace. One throws them down head first, and if they’re still alive one finishes them off with stones.”

    In the anti-Semitic Hamas Charter there is a clear reference to the destruction of Jews, and ‘the day of reckoning’ as referenced in the Koran.

    • Alexsandr

      I bet there are references to Mufa Khathat, which is simple paedophilia in my view

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …aaaah yes… the “sacred rite”.

  • Pat Conway

    IDF the most moral army in history? Utter rubbish.

  • The Masked Marvel

    There were always going to be inevitable consequences once the BBC and the rest of the MSM transitioned from being highly critical of Israel to outright demonization. There is a difference, one which seems to be lost on most ‘critics of Israel’ these days.

    • you_kid

      Hear hear!

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …Hear what, lad?

        You barking madly at the goat?

    • Amon Duul

      Israel is given a free ride in Western media.

      • The Masked Marvel

        Of course. So long as the media isn’t calling for the destruction of Israel, they’re giving Israel a free ride.

        • Amon Duul

          Give me one example of Western media calling for the destruction of Israel, you clown.

          • The Masked Marvel

            Clown? Obviously they haven’t done, which is why you’re saying Israel gets a free ride.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Learn to read & understand what you’re reading you clown.

            • Amon Duul

              So no example then, just a pointless slogan as a response.

  • victor67

    Murray parrots the deligitimization argument but Israel is doing a good job of it itself. Its own extremists do not allow the creation of a Palestinian state therefore it controls the lives of 3 million Palestinians without giving them either their own state or democratic rights within the one state.
    This is the core issue of the conflict (Not the ugly and brutal events unfolding in Gaza) and what will lead ultimately to the defeat of Israel. Slowly but surely the world including America will not support the apartheid situation that emerges in the Occupied territories

    • Augustus

      It’s been eight years since Palestinians have had any say in who rules them. What does that tell you about their legitimacy? As for ‘the ugly and brutal events unfolding in Gaza’, Israel would be well advised to hold the PA President directly responsible for the rockets fired from Gaza.

      • AJH1968

        Perhaps if they offered the palestinians 97% of what they asked for they would have a solution, but then again they have done that before and we all know how that turned out.

        • Augustus

          The fact is that the Palestinians possess no distinctive history, language or culture of their own. They are not essentially different in any sense whatsoever from Arabs living in other countries of the ME such as Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq. And yet today Arabs calling themselves Palestinians claim the same legal rights as the Jewish people in violation of authentic international law created long ago. It is simply part of worldwide folly that has occurred since the late 1960s when the Palestinians were accorded international recognition by a series of illegal UN Resolutions replacing authentic international law by fake and fabricated international law.

          • AJH1968

            Another point I would like to make is the amount of casualties the IDF sustains in order to curb civillian casualties. The altecations between pr departments and professional soldiers must be legendary. That is however what occurs in fully functioning liberal democracies. When pro sharia thugs start running things there are no arguments and women and children die.

            • Damaris Tighe

              Remember the Jenin ‘massacre’?

              • AJH1968

                I remember Arafat referring to it as Jeniningrad. I also remember Israeli spokesmen looking rather flabbergasted when telling a rather disinterested media about the quantity of suicide vests they found at Arafats headquarters when they overran it. Arafat never had any intention of accepting any of Ehud Barak’s offers, indeed Bill Clinton blamed Arafat for the failure of the talks. Israel has always tried to buy peace but has not shirked her responsibility to defend her citizens. I have some good friends in Israel I hope they are well.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  The Pal leadership claimed 500 dead. When the UN investigated there were around 50 dead including dead Israeli soldiers. By this time the media had rolled on …

                  The Israelis needn’t have launched a house to house offensive at Jenin, a tactic designed to minimise civilian causalties but which put their own soldiers at risk (which of course they never got credit for). They could have avoided all their own casualties by bombarding from a distance.

                • AJH1968

                  I doubt any other army on earth would endure such high casualties for the sake of good Public relations, which inevitably they do not get thanks to conspiracy theorists and bias journalists. I think if you want to win a campaign against Hamas you have to be prepared to act without any moral reservation and you have to abandon any sense of honour or integrity. You should also have no problem with running your campaign from a luxury middle eastern hotel or as far away as possible. I feel sorry for the ordinary citizens of Gaza but I have nothing but contempt for their Leadership.

          • Donafugata

            They expect international recognition for a Palestinian state while refusing to recognise the existence of an Israeli one.

        • Eamonn Riley

          No such offer has ever been made. This is Hasbara BS.

        • Donafugata

          The UN were prepared to recognise Palestine as a state but then something made them change their mind.

          The formal recognition of Israel should be made a condition of the same status for Palestine.

          It will never happen because Palestinians are obsessed with hatred. Until they can forget and concentrate on building an economy and prosperity for themselves, they will remain in the same negative cycle.

          There is something about Islam that encourages the wringing victim mentality, welfare dependency and deep resentment of all who flourish and prosper.

          • Donafugata

            Whinging, that should be. Damned auto-correct.

            • AJH1968

              My auto correct changes Marshall to martial which puts an entirely different spin on things.

          • Alexsandr

            i think israel would have happened in 1948 whether the UN decreed it nor not.

      • victor67

        Israel has quite effectively outsourced the Occupation to the PA and reminds them who really calls the shots when they step out of line like when they were going to the UN and Bibi threatened to stop the funds going to Ramallah.
        Do you think the stopping of the rockets or the destroying the tunnels will result in peace? Israel has been deluding itself for the last 15 years, thinking it can occupy the Palestinians without suffering any significant consequences. Do you think the status quo is sustainable?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Yes.

    • Alexsandr

      well if you are right the jews in Israel will suffer a 2nd holocaust.

      • victor67

        I think Israeli’s and Palestinians can live in peace but their has to be an acknowledgment of the rights of Palestinians. Israel has turned itself into a fortress and demonized and persecuted its neighbours. How long can fortress Israel survive? How high can it build its walls?
        Hamas are a symptom, they can be neutralized with justice for the Palestinians. Drones and bombs only enhance their appeal.

        • Alexsandr

          if you think that read koran 9:29 and think again.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Hamas is being neutralized as we speak, lad .

          • Damaris Tighe

            PG

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …?

              • Ordinaryman

                Please God

        • jack

          I’m afraid you need to understand the dislike of the Jews as deemed by god through his messenger that created Islam.

          The only time there will be peaceful coexistence is after a reformation of Islam. Until such time people will die stupidly as an act in favour of their god.

          • Alexsandr

            Reform islam? Yeah right.

            • jack

              There is another jack with a capital J who has stolen my name.Are you sure you wish to address me?

              Please tell me what you are trying to say by ” yeah right”

              • Alexsandr

                I dont think there is a snowball in hells chance of reforming islam ever.

          • Amon Duul

            You need to understand Zionist hatred of Palestinians.

            • jack

              Please read the Koran and understand its instructions.

              • Amon Duul

                Please read the Torah.

        • Donafugata

          It’s doubtful that Israelis want to live in a fortress and probably hate the wall as much as anyone but they need to defend themselves.

          A tiny country surrounded by Islamic, death cult nutters all of whom hate Jews more than each other.

          As Seneca said, “it takes courage to live”.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Israelis are nostalgic about the time before suicide bombings made the Security Barrier necessary. They regularly visited the markets of Ramalah. Palestinians regularly visited the beach at Tel Aviv. In fact Palestinians coach parties still do occasionally visit the beach at Tel Aviv!

    • global city

      Well, they’re not. Your take is very much a tiny minority one.

      Most people understand the hatred that Israel and the Jews face, as we havee to put up with it being told to us all the bloody time by stupid Islamists. They won’t stop telling us how much they hate the Jews….but people like you do not respet them enough to listen to their words, preferring instead to live in some lalaland where israel is fast delegitimaising its own existence.

      Dream on.

      • victor67

        The Islamist devil is a comforting and distracting narrative for Israel to avoid dealing with the 3 million Palestinians between the Jordan and the Med. How does it remain Jewish and democratic with the status quo?

        • Alexsandr

          elections including the israeli arabs?

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …and you may depend the Israeli Arabs full well understand how much worse it could get for them, if the likes of those Hamas islamofascists gain power everywhere.

          • victor67

            The Israeli Palestinians are discriminated against on many levels including rights to marry ,education and are regarded as a fifth column by many Israelis including Avigdor Lieberman.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …ask them if they want your murderous islamofascist buddies to take over, lad .

            • Damaris Tighe

              I don’t condone regarding them as a fifth column but is it any wonder?

      • Amon Duul

        Most people understand Zionist hate.

        • global city

          of course.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Dream on, lad. All of the Middle East thugocrats are cheering mightily for the Israelis to succeed in this. They know most of all how these islamofascist nutters are best handled.

    • Augustus

      You’re the perpetual parrot. A mouthpiece for Hamas. The last time Hamas decided it would drive Israel into the sea they then cried how Israel was killing Palestinian children, until they were exposed dragging dead children around to photograph the children in different settings to make it look like they were different children. and who can forget scenes of Hamas loading roof tops with women and children to serve as cover for their rocket launchers that actually were placed in front of the same building the women and children were on.

      • victor67

        So Hamas are destroyed. Who or what replaces them? Will it be any better for Israel. Will massacring the Palestinians make them more moderate or a ” partner for peace”?

        • Alexsandr

          so Hamas were not trying to massacre the jews. they were just cr@p at it. Its the thought that counts.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          So what should Israel do laddie? Sit back and watch the fireworks?

          • Amon Duul

            Make peace abandon the illegal settlements obey international law jessie.

            • Inverted Meniscus

              Make peace with an organisation dedicated to your destruction and the extermination of your citizens? That is the stated aim of Hamas. Are you really that stupid?

              • Amon Duul

                Are you really that stupid? Israel does not have to negotiate with Hamas. It should negotiate with the Palestinian leadership. No one asks the Palestinians to negotiate with Jewish leaders who want their destruction.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  The Palestinian Authority has no control over Gaza & you know it.

                • Amon Duul

                  Irrelevant. Israel needs to negotiate with the Palestinian leadership and you know it.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Nothing to do with Gaza.

                • Amon Duul

                  This article is not about Gaza.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  And Hamas will just step aside and let that happen will they? Who do you think it is forcing women and children into sites targeted by Israel you f*****g idiot.

            • Inverted Meniscus

              Oh and the settlements were abandoned in 2005 you idiot.

      • Amon Duul

        A mouthpiece for Zionism. Nothing to see here.

  • Alexsandr

    The scenes melanie describes are the same as happened in German in the 1930’s as the Nazis came to power.

    This sort of stuff cannot be appeased.

    • global city

      No doubt that jerk who railroaded Farage on the radio will be demanding of some guest soon, “so who would you rather live next to, group of Islamist men or an awful Jew family?”…and then getting really angry when the guest mumbles an answer that asserts that there is a preferable choice to be made.

      • Chris Morriss

        I think most English people would rather live next to neither of them.

        • Damaris Tighe

          Why?

        • Alexsandr

          i lived in a very jewish area as a christian as a kid. 30% of the kids were jewish. Nice people.

        • Augustus

          That’s ridiculous. As a lad I lived in Hampstead (Belsize Park) in the 1950s right next door to a Jewish doctor and his charming wife who had escaped Hitler’s Anschluss in Vienna just in time. They were lovely people. She gave me piano lessons, and the occasional home-made cake. One wonder’s what such a couple would make of today’s outbursts against Jews.

          • Ordinaryman

            History would lead us to believe that the Jews are now familiar with anti-Jewish outbursts, which is why Israel exists.

        • Ordinaryman

          Please stop thinking then!

        • Damaris Tighe

          I’m going to call you on this Chris. I know from other posts you’re a decent chap. Several people you talk to here & on other threads could well be Jews. Are you really saying you wouldn’t like to live next door to them?

          • Damaris Tighe

            Actually I’m more concerned about my neighbours’ behaviour (quiet, law-abiding) than their ethnicity. Rather have a quiet muslim family any day than a feral English one.

    • Eamonn Riley

      Rubbish, There is no condemnation of the attacks on peace protestors in Israel. One sided nonsense.

      • Alexsandr

        so the scenes in Paris dont remind you of Europe under the Nazis then?

        • Amon Duul

          The JDL did not exist in the 30s.

          • Damaris Tighe

            You’ve tagged every convo here except the one about Jenin. I wonder why that is?

            • Amon Duul

              Convo?

    • Amon Duul

      The scenes of attacks on peace protestors in Paris Rome and Israel show me who the true fascists are.

  • Ted Cunterblast

    If the Arabs in Gaza weren’t Muslim and non-White, one wonders if Western progressives would give a fig about them.

    Russian women and children in East Ukraine are being slaughtered as we speak by the US-backed Ukrainian junta terrorists. Where’s the outrage?

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      As with Christians in various countries.

    • Alexsandr

      if they were not muslim there would not be a problem. Check Koran 9:29 etc.

      • Damaris Tighe

        You do have to wonder why every other refugee population in the world has sorted themselves out, but the Palestinians continue to rot & nurse their grievances in their camps.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          … because the islamofascist board of directors wants them to stay that way.

          • Damaris Tighe

            It was a rhetorical question!

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …I think the islamofascists are literal folk, and not much for rhetoricals.

              • Damaris Tighe

                Did you know Israel once offered to build houses for the refugees but their leaders refused because they would not be in their original villages?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  I can believe that. These people are nothing more than pawns. They are born into this, with the islamofascist mafia controlling their lives. If all the international money sent in there had gone to the people instead of the mafia, most of those people would probably be educated and rich by now.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  When I visited the West Bank in 1990 I was to amazed to see the huge Palestinian-owned villas there – much larger & grander than any Israeli home I saw. That’s changed of course as Israel has become more prosperous.

                • Eamonn Riley

                  I did not know this and I do not believe it.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  ok

    • Jack

      It’s not on the news. When people get home from work they don’t scour the internet for grim world events, they sit and watch the news while they eat dinner. And most people aren’t outraged at anything, they’re too busy worrying about their own ****, like most people since the year dot.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Their own……necks?

    • Damaris Tighe

      Just before the Gaza war started an apartment block in eastern Ukraine was bombed. Utter devastation. Several people killed. Did you know about it?

  • victor67

    It was interesting watching Channel 4 news tonight and witnessing Israeli’s attacking a peace vigil in Tel Aviv and chanting There’s no more schools in Gaza.
    Has Israel lost its moral compass?

    • global city

      What an idiotic point? Who represents all of Israel and its ‘moral compass’…the shouters or the peaceniks?

      Thing was, they all had to run when the air raid warnings went off. So much for solidarity!

      • you_kid

        Wowsers! The penny has dropped!
        Hamas ≠ Palestine, either.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …did it drop on your head, lad?

          • Ordinaryman

            Has he got one??

            • Damaris Tighe

              It’s one of those noddy things you get on toy dogs people put in cars.

              • Ordinaryman

                Thanks, I was beginning to wonder.

        • global city

          Indeed Viceroy.

          Why do you assume that I see these things from the perspective of a footy match or a video game?

          Most Palestinians would love to be rid of Hamas and all the other bloody loonies. The fight is not with them, but then neither was the fight with most ordinary Germans when the British were bombing the rap out of their homes in order to defeat the Nazis.

          • you_kid

            Bingo, Hans. My words yesterday.
            Did Northern Ireland teach you nothing.

            • jack

              Did the answer to your Einstein quote yesterday teach you nothing?

              • you_kid

                Ok, boys – it appears you lot are a small handful. Not a problem …

                you want to fight? Fine. Fight. Blow each other up over and over and over again. Pure 100% Einstein.

                • jack

                  And you are 100% pure methane.

                • you_kid

                  Ok lad, you have no other interests than islam.
                  You are just another one of those tedious pork haters.
                  I don’t give a crap what you think.

            • global city

              I don’t remember either the IRA or the UDF ever placing the elimination of the whole people they oppose at the top of their priority list.

              As has been said more than one, you ignore the exceptional evil at the core of the Arab Israeli conflict. The question has to be why?

              • you_kid

                You do not remember? Is that because you are not Irish?

                Not every Palestinian is Hamas. You repeatedly conflating that deliberately exposes that you have no interest in peace.

                • global city

                  You genuinely are as nutty as a rich nut cake…. you’re mental and you never make sense.

                  Peace. I would love peace. I would love it if the world were all peaceful in every area. The fact that there is not world peace, and that some conflicts demand a final stand for a certain side is not my fault. It is not my fault that Israel is bombarding Gaza, just as is it not my fault that Islam’s book directly leads way too many Muslims to wish all Jews dead and way too many to take up arms to try and achieve this. You ignore this fact.

                  I imagine you enjoy wasting your time.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Did you notice that many of the peace nutters over on the Jon Snow article seemed to either be stoned or in deep trance?

                • global city

                  Drunk on their own genius no doubt….. a bit like that fellow you_kid on this thread.

                • you_kid

                  No laddie, you want to keep selling your weapons, do deals and blow up things from time to time.
                  .
                  .
                  .
                  why don’t you just say so.

                • global city

                  Silly boy… silly, silly, silly.

                  You must have some incredible faith to believe that your personal thought processes an shape events in the Middle East.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Or that wishing for peace will make it so

                • global city

                  indeed.

                • you_kid

                  I have heard that one before.
                  Of course *my personal* thought process can shape events, just like anyone else’s thought process can shape events. And you know how? It can shape events when enough punters agree and do something about it. What did you believe C4/the BBC/Sky/MSM (thank you Shazza, that’s almost *everyone*) are doing in their broadcasts?

                  In this day and age you cannot blow up 1000+ people, no matter for what reason, and get away with it (!)

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …unless you’re one of your murderous islamofascist buddies like Hamas. They you can slaughter at will and you socialist nutters will approve. You can fire volleys of rockets at innocent Israeli civilians and you socialist nutters will bark your approval like trained seals.

                  Afterall, you socialist nutters and the islamofascist murderers are alike, and have similar histories. Why shouldn’t you agree?

                • you_kid

                  Yes, laddie – complete mad-cracker jackery from you now.

                  socialists = nutters
                  nutters = Hamas supporters
                  Palestinians = islamofascists
                  kibbutzim denizens = socialists

                  repeat until the true meaning reveals itself which is:

                  you = mad cracker jack

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You = socialist nutter with an army of socialist nutter sockpuppets all of you enthralled by murderous islamofascists who do it all just like you socialist nutters have always historically done, with a slaughtering gusto.

                  How’s the goat, lad?

                • you_kid

                  No, I enjoy winding all you pork haters up. It is quite obvious that all of you on this blog, with one or two exceptions, are undeniable pork haters.
                  The solution is simple: eat more pork and stay sane!
                  Lad.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …does that go for your goat sockpuppet too, lad?

                • you_kid

                  What about the goat, lad?
                  Your pork-hating pals a ruining the look of my lines…
                  They are on this blog from top to bottom.
                  Christ!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …you really need to get the goat in here, lad.

              • kingkevin3

                Because most of the people occupying the west bank are religious fuckwits who think a book written by another bunch of fuckwits 2500 years ago entitles them to other peoples land. It really isn’t difficult to understand. Hamas and Iran do not support the elimination of the jewish people. They support the destruction of the Israeli state. The Irish were deprived of their land by the british. The Palestinians were deprived of their land by the Zionists. The IRA sought to expunge ALL brits from northern ireland and destroy the government in the north.In fact even the Irish themselves fought for complete control of their country from 1916 to 1922. Hamas and Iran are attempting to do the same.

                • Andy

                  What about the fuckwit Muslims who are taking Christian Lands in Iraq and Syria right now. These fuckwits, do support the elimination (extermination) of Christian people. Or is that ok because they are fuckwit Muslims ??

          • Andy

            Well that shows a lack of knowledge about Germany in the 1930s. It is a convenient excuse to say we were fighting the Nazis, when the facts are that Hitler was elected and the Germans did not overthrow him. And you ought to remember that the Germans fought to the bitter end. It wasn’t just the Nazis: it was the Germans.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …they fought at gunpoint. The Nazis threatened their families if they deserted or refused to fight. Hitler said the nation deserved to die for him.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Incredibly idiotic comment that you’d make about no other country. When you see a BNP demo, do you say Britain has lost its moral compass? Since when has one group of people defined the morality of a whole nation?

      • victor67

        Israeli public opinion has moved to the extremes in relation to the Palestinians. Their media is not showing the full impact of their assault on Gaza .

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …yes, we should all tune in to Hamas TV News and get the real happenings:

          “In the news today, 14 teenage girls were stoned to death for looking at Elle magazine.”

          “And now for the weather. It’ll be hot and sunny today, so make sure you dress light under your suicide belt.”

          “And remember, next week is the final chance to register for the FGM special over at the martyrs mosque. Get your girls cleaned up cheap, inshallah.”

          • Damaris Tighe

            Not to mention Pallywood.

        • global city

          That is absolutely untrue.

        • Damaris Tighe

          For chrissake, they’ll be fully aware of it from the internet if nothing else!

        • mightymark

          Untrue. I tune in to i24 regularly and the impact is indeed shown.

    • Chris Morriss

      Israel’s moral compass was always demagnetised. Why has everyone forgotten the brutal ways in which they murdered Englishmen in the Palestine police force, who were only there because it was the only job they could find when they were demobbed after WW2?

      • Damaris Tighe

        Why have you not got over these events of over 60 years ago?

        • mightymark

          I’ll take a small bet that most of those who criticise the murder of British police in 1940s Palestine would have few qualms about backing anti colonial/imperialist forces against Western Empires anywhere else. The rest are mainly fascists.

          • Amon Duul

            i’LL take a bet that those who criticise terrorism do so regardless of the perpetrators.

      • Baron

        This remark of yours is of the sort that will never ever solve any conflict anywhere, Chris.

      • Ordinaryman

        Be careful going down that road. Believe me, some Englishmen haven’t got the cleanest of hands, particularly when working overseas during the colonial era.

    • Inverted Meniscus

      Have your friends in Hamas ever had one?

    • Ordinaryman

      Presumably, those in the peace vigil were also Israeli. Therefore it would appear that there is still a “moral compass” within Israeli society.

    • Baron

      If only the conflict were of the sort of this shouting match, victor67, we wouldn’t have to worry much about the moral compass of either group, or anything else for that matter.

    • Donafugata

      Yeah, the first time C4 take a look at the Israeli side and it’s all about the extreme Zionists screaming for everyone to die.

      Just to let us know that Jews are full of hate unlike those peace-loving Muslims who only want their children to grow up to be doctors.

    • mightymark

      Yes – disgraceful, but I wonder what Hamas’s reaction would be were anyone found demonstrating for peace in Gaza?

      By the way, how can you ask “Has Israel lost its moral compass” when the peace vigil with which you implicitly sympathise is made up presumably of Israelis?

      • Damaris Tighe

        Exactly. This is the comment of someone blind to anything in Israel that doesn’t confirm his/her prejudices. Now what do we call that?

  • Ted Cunterblast

    What’s funny is that organised Jewry itself is largely responsible for importing Muslim populations into the West, in part to confuse, weaken, and fracture any nascent Nationalist opposition to globalist power. Jews love the MultiKult because it helps divide their enemies.

    That said, although I’m no friend of the Jews, it is heartening to see the Israelis eradicate so many hateful Arabs in Gaza.

    If only Britons and Europeans had the courage and will to use the same methods against our own non-White populations.

  • Jack

    For anti-Semites there isn’t a difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, because their anti-Semitism is what makes them anti-Zionists. But there is a multitude who believe that the Israeli govt, like any govt that ever existed in the entirety of human history, is vulnerable to corruption and ideological extremism. These people who have doubts about the govt. and their use of military force should not be equated with the slack-jawed imbeciles who attack Jewish people.

  • Newcombe

    Why is there no mention of hatred towards Jews explicit in Islamic theology? This is not all down to the war between Hamas and Israel, the animosity towards Jews goes back a long way.

    • global city

      the war is merely a symptom of the scriptures you highlight.

    • Alexsandr

      remember hamas and isis are affiliated.

      • Amon Duul

        Remember Israel and South Africa WERE AFFILIATED.

    • Amon Duul

      Why no mention of hatred? Because it is irrelevant. THE occupation is illegal and must end.

  • you_kid

    The Gordian Knot cannot be undone. The only answer is to give the Palestinians the rights everyone else on this planet takes for granted.

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      …you posted this the other day, word for word, and it was just as ridiculous then!

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Yes but he is an EU sponsored disrupter ( along with the rest of his sock puppets) and originality is not his thing. He does a good line in socialist nutter gibberish however.

        • you_kid

          Sure, laddie – and a kibbutz is pure socialist nuttery too, isn’t it? You lobotomised twerp.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …did they have to lobotomize the goat too, lad?

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Sorry I can’t follow your gibberish lad. Ask the goat.

            • you_kid

              Of course you don’t, you lobotomised cretin.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …now, is the goat cretinously lobotomized, lad?

              • Inverted Meniscus

                How much do the EU pay you to disrupt these threads and do they pay extra for the goat lad?

                • you_kid

                  Chuzzlewitz, give it a rest.
                  We all know you are not English.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  More gibberish. Ask the goat laddie.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Wasn’t it something about lighting?

    • Alexsandr

      check how the Gazans were doing pre-Hamas.

      • you_kid

        Yes, why not. And I wished the English Magna Carta apostles learnt a bit more about the Kibbutz Movement. That would not go amiss either.

        “The kibbutz (Hebrew word for “communal settlement”) is a unique rural community; a society dedicated to mutual aid and social justice; a socioeconomic system based on the principle of joint ownership of property, equality and cooperation of production, consumption and education; the fulfillment of the idea “from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”; a home for those who have chosen it.”

        http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/kibbutz.html

        • global city

          and your point? there are loads of stupid communes and collectives in the UK. Most people do not wish to live like that, which is the great benefit of freedom of choice. Most people give up after a while because it is a really nutty way to run your whole life.

          If you want to live in a collective go and do so. Do not insist that I have to as well though.

          • you_kid

            you see, no one suggested any of that.
            Read this blog from top to bottom – the nutters are easy to spot as they MAKE THINGS UP about others all the time.
            Who give a flying FAQ what you think other people believe?

            Tell us what you believe, God darn it!

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …where’s the goat, lad?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …perhaps you and your sockpuppet army could learnt a bit more about islamofascist mass-murderers, laddie.

          • you_kid

            … once ‘islamofascism’ enters the Oxford Dictionairies we will all perhaps understand what this fascist nutter is on about.

            http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/spellcheck/all/?q=islamofascism

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …of course you fascists understand islamofascism, lad. Those are your fascist cousins. They enjoy murderous totalitarianism much like you socialist nutters, and use it to get their way, just like you.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …of course you fascists understand islamofascism, lad. Those are your fascist cousins. They enjoy murderous totalitarianism much like you socialist nutters, and use it to get their way, just like you.

            • Inverted Meniscus

              Nobody is interested in your links lad.

              • you_kid

                Hahaha! You dumb lobotomised twerp.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …come on, lad, we need that goat to make an appearance!

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Is that you barking at the goat laddie?

        • Chris Morriss

          In other words, a far-left dystopia. Israel is built upon far-left principles. I never cease to be amazed how so many supposedly libertarian right-of-centre educated people are blind to this.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Was once not now. Read Start Up Nation.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Some people dislike Israel because they think it’s far right. You dislike Israel because you think its far left!

          • you_kid

            There we have it, a very interesting point – curious how your chums tvg and inverted cerebrum (which you tirelessly support) just cannot find the time to agree with you.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …does the goat have time to agree with you, lad?

    • global city

      Yes. But the attacks on the Jew will continue. Land is not the issue.

      • Amon Duul

        Land is the issue. The occupation is the issue.

        • global city

          No it isn’t. why not just bloody listen to Hamas itself?

          but, even if Hamas changed its mind tomorrow some other death cult group would take up arms instead. the islamists will not stop until there is not a single jew left in the land… they say so repeatedly, but people like you turn a deaf ear to them.

          i think this is racism.

          • Amon Duul

            People like you refuse to admit that land is the issue. You make these nonsense attacks because you are unable to discuss the real issues. The Palestinian leadership have accepted the state of Israel, and they only want their own state. You are just trying to distract us from facing the real issues. That is why you are angry at begin ignored.

            • Damaris Tighe

              We aren’t talking about the Palestinian Authority of the West Bank, we’re talking about Hamas & Gaza – as you keep saying in your many trolling tags. We know & you know that Hamas has vowed to destroy Israel. You probably hoped that the commentators here didn’t know the difference between the Palestinian Authority & Gaza.

              • Amon Duul

                You don’t decide what we are talking about. We are talking about Israel’s failure to negotiate.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …so basically, you’re saying everyone else on this planet has the right to be islamofascist murderers and fire volleys of rockets at innocent civilians?

      What’s the goat have to say about that, lad?

      • you_kid

        “so basically you are saying …”
        “so basically they believe …”
        “so basically others are …”

        Do you never get tired of making up what *other people* believe and thus demonstrate the state of your own ‘lobotomisation’ (join the club, laddie). Give up matey, that no longer works.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          The socialist nutter fantasist accusing others of “making up”. That’s funny.

          Where’s the goat, lad?

          And why is it you believe everyone else on this planet has the right to be islamofascist murderers and fire volleys of rockets at innocent civilians, lad?

  • Shazza

    The BBC/Sky/MSM/Ch4/ are not helping matters with their biased, anti-Israel pro Hamas stand. Their manipulation of language to infer that Israel is the villain in the conflict is sickening.

    Why not ask – what has Israel got to gain from killing children and civilians? They are not the ones to gain propaganda coups from this.

    I cannot understand this one sided argument – yes, Israel has made mistakes but let’s get some balance going.

    They are, with their bigoted coverage, pouring petrol on the fire.
    They should hang their heads in shame.

    • Newcombe

      Even British sportsmen are at it now.

      • Patriccia Shaw

        And why?
        What mechanism has the world to stop Israel bombing schools and hospitals?
        Ban Ki Moon has described the actions as reprehensible.
        They hear nobody.
        The only possible mechanism to get them to stop is for the American Administration pressed by thei Jewish Lobby to give them an offer they cannot refuse.
        They are not listening.
        Perhaps the potentially odious events in Europe described above May open their ears.

        • Colonel Mustard

          You forgot to put in your *, telemachus…

        • Mike

          The world has all the power in the world to stop this conflict if only it would face the truth. Condemn the Islamic wars and genocide that are in progress as we speak, put into perspective where the most people are dying (Iraq, Libya & Syaria) and once they’ve stopped Muslims killing other Muslims, Christians and Jews, perhaps Islam can become a peaceful religion.

          • Patriccia Shaw

            Nonsense nonsense nonsense.
            The oppression of the Palestinians has nothing to do with the general conflicts in the Arab world.
            It is American armed nuclear capable Israel trying to crush the efforts at self determinism of the Proud Palestinians.
            The international dimension is the hastening of nuclear capability of Iran.

            • Andy

              Bollocks.

              • Amon Duul

                Double bollocks, you troll.

            • Mike

              Its unblievable that the left are so factually challenged they can’t see that the problem is militant Islam. What part of this joined up writing don’t you understand ?

              Islamofacism caused 9/11, 7/7, The Madrid train bombing and thousands of other terrorist acts against others around the world. It has started genocidal civil wars in Iraq, Libya & Syria with Muslims killing Muslims, Christians and Jews. It practices barbaric practices like FMG, honour killing and enforced underage marriage to 10 year old girls. The list of atrocities, obscenities and barbaric behaviour carried out in its name is legion and shows no sign of stopping.

              This Islamic jihad against everyone in the west isn’t just an Israeli problem who are suffering from rockets raining down on them, killers popping up from tunnels to execute civilians or blow up houses. It affects the whole western world that has been apologising for Islamic atrocities for the past 10 years and is walking to oblivion but doesn’t know it yet. As each day passes and our governments look the other way, these Islamofacists grow bolder and spread their hate across the west but the left refuses to see it.

              Gaza is just one more example of the many cancerous heads that this Islamic Gorgon has. The events above are all related but the west has refused to look at this modern day creature of disgust for fear it will turn you to stone or due political correctness and when you cut off one head, two more spring up in their place. We need a modern day Perseus to kill this Islamic Gorgon as its not mythical at all and a real danger to the world. We need to do it right now as we cant afford to wait until they gain access to nuclear weapons.

              • Patriccia Shaw

                It is difficult that someone from, I presume a Christian perspective can pour such bile on the Muslims when discussing this issue of territorial aggression.
                Maybe you should also reflect on Acre, the inquisition and the violence of the 80 years of Catholic aggression in the North of Ireland
                The issue here is crystal clear.
                The aggressor interloper nation is trying to blow the indigenous people off the face of the earth.
                Religion does not come into it.

                • Mike

                  I have nothing against the majority of Muslims other than the fact they are irrelevant in this Islamic Jihad as they sit back and ignore the atrocities carried out in the name of their religion just as the majority of Germans looked the other way at atrocities carried out there 70-80 years ago. Thats their only ‘crime’ for not standing up to the Islamofascists.

                  Not sure what your reference to Catholic and N. Ireland is but I will say that religion of virtually all faiths has been at the core of genocide and civil wars throughout the centuries. All Islam is doing right now is ‘catch up’ as they’re 500 years behind the Christian religion and a lot more than that behind Judaism. Religion is ALL about it here as why would suicide bombers and fighters praise Allah whilst killing innocents.

                  The issue is very clear but not for the simplistic reason you give as its militant Islam that is the primary culprit in the world today of terrorism, genocide, civil wars, beheading, mutilation, murder, incest, pedophilia and I’ve probably missed some other babarbic traits that they have been guilty of.

                  You have a very selective mind in looking the other way and pretending this hasn’t happened and is still happening but thats your delusion not mine.

              • Amon Duul

                Militant Zionism is the problem.

                • Mike

                  All I can say is – ISIS, Hamas, Boko haram, Al Fatah, need I go on !

                • global city

                  a big problem is that you are most likely not just shitstirring but actually believe that.

                • Mike

                  Thats the problem with the left, they have s*** for brains and believe any propaganda that matches their twisted mindset.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Murderous islamofascist freaks like Hamas are the problem.

              • ptolemy

                Except Israel was persecuting Gazans long before Hamas, or anyone else you could describe as militant existed.

                • Mike

                  And the Romans persecuted the Jews and Christians, whats your point !

            • Lydia Robinson

              If that part of the Middle East was left “Juden Frei” they would quickly begin slaughtering each other.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …”begin”? …

                They began slaughtering each other long ago.

              • Mike

                You’ve got that right judging by Iraq, Libya and Syria, its in their makeup !

        • The Masked Marvel

          Ban Ki Moon condones Hamas using schools, hospitals, and UN facilities as weapons bases. He and the UN allow the construction of tunnels, the movement of weapons, and the schools supervised by UNRWA teach the death cult and instruct children in the joys of martyrdom.

          There may or may not be a mechanism to stop Israel, but the UN would rather create the environment for a nuclear weapon to be brought in. It’s time to stop pretending that’s not what everybody wants, including ‘critics of Israel’ like yourself.

      • allymax bruce

        So, people who speak out at the massacre of little children are anti-semitic?
        Can’t you see how ludicrous the slogan ‘anti-semitic’ is now?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …give it up, lad. You’re an anti-semite and you’ve made that quite clear.

          • allymax bruce

            G-string, you’re a cretin of enormous proportions. Just because I don’t want children being massacred on a Crime Against Humanity scale, you call me an anti-semite.
            In that case, I’m happy to be an anti-*semite !

            • the viceroy’s gin

              No, a cretin would be those who are anti-semites, like you, lad .

              And yes, you do appear to be happy to be an anti-semite.

              Your islamofascist murderer Hamas buddies are the ones like the Nazis, lad. They enjoy Mein Kampf, just as you likely do.

              • Amon Duul

                Give it up, you are not allowed to use the word anti semite because you are a bigot.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …yes, you fascists always seek to destroy free speech, too.

                  Oh, and you call others “bigots”, you know, repeating the charge. It’s a common fascist tactic.

            • Damaris Tighe

              People call you an antisemite because you wibble on about the ‘yoos’ doing dark & dirty things.

              • allymax bruce

                Ah, the sniping little snivelshit troll coward tags again.
                Pathetic.

          • Amon Duul

            Give it up lad, you have run out of ideas and you have resorted to nonsense.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …give it up, lad, you never had any ideas and you are nonsense itself.

    • Jack

      Watch Channel 4 news that was on tonight, about fifteen minutes ago, and you’ll see Jon Snow yelling at someone in Hamas, asking them over and over why they’re putting rockets in UN buildings. The Hamas idiot denies it, Snow yells some more.

      • Newcombe

        I have aboslutely lost all the respect for Jon Snow and Ch4 News. They’re nothing but Islamist propaganda outfit.

        • Jack

          Difficult to find any decent media these days, and Channel 4 lost most of its credibility a few decades back. Still, it is difficult to see the anti-Israel, pro-Hamas bent in a man shouting at Hamas and accusing them of provoking Israeli attacks.

          • Donafugata

            Snow joined the blog about his bias only the other day and some of the comments here must have made him squirm, they were quite insulting.

            I think he deliberately chose Mr. Personality from Hamas for a wigging just to show he’s capable of balance.

            • Andy

              It is called ‘window dressing’. No one is fooled.

            • Makroon

              Snow is an idiot but Melanie lost her marbles years ago.
              Anyone on the streets of Britain yelling “get the jew” or whatever, would quickly be locked up – the youth, in particular, would just not stand for it, ( and thank God for that).
              There are very many murderous “settlers”, many from Russia who are not even of the jewish faith. And no doubt, many conscripts in Israel’s army capable of violent outrage – that doesn’t mean Israel has a policy of shooting at UN schools.
              The jewish lobby (useful to Israel but repudiated by many Israelis), and their groupies, should stop with the “anti-semitism” hysteria, it is mostly counter productive.

              • Amon Duul

                The riots in Paris were started by the JDL.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …were the black helicopters there too, lad?

                • allymax bruce

                  No, but your goat was. Have you lost your goat G-string ?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …have you lost your swastika and copy of the Protocols, lad?

        • global city

          They put rockets into UN buildings, and no doubt actually do most of the shelling of them (hospitals, children’s schools, disabled centres, etc do tend to get hit quite a lot, never to the advantage of Israel) because they know fuckwits like Snow will lead the calls to demonise Israel and feed the hate some more.

          • Damaris Tighe

            But if people are choosing to shelter in UN schools doesn’t it show they EXPECT the Israelis to try not to hit them?

            • Alexsandr

              a soldier’s job is to seek out and destroy his enemy. If he fails he will either end up dead, or the enemy will regroup and attack him later

            • global city

              Yes….and then Hamas no doubt lob a bomb in instead. Apparently the Jews attacked a market tonight… lots of women and children dead again. Makes you wonder why they do this so often. Perhaps the truth is that they don’t. I have absolutely no doubt that in 9/10 cases like that it is the Islamists rather than the IDF who are responsible.

              • Baron

                It pains Baron to say it, but you must be right, global city. The thugs of Hamas know the more morally repugnant deaths they can pile up, the greater the international outcry. It’s their most potent weapon, it recruits more of the likes of jackthesmilingblacks, it puts pressure on governments, ensures an inflow of funds, it’s their livelihood.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Indeed, it answers the question ‘who benefits?’.

                • Patriccia Shaw

                  So a tiny minority crammed into what is in effect a ghetto should lie down and refuse journalistic access when the aggressor rains down missiles on their schools?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  The “aggressor” is the Hamas islamofascists raining down missiles onto Israeli civilians.

                • allymax bruce

                  Liar.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, it’s fact, not that we’d expect an anti-semite and islamofascist snuggler like you to accept fact.

                • allymax bruce

                  ‘snuggler’ ?
                  That’s not butch at all. Yoos Zionists are nothing but pathetic murdering snivelshits of innocent children and defenseless civilians.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, but you are an anti-semite and you love you some islamofascist mass-murderering Hamas beasts, lad.

        • ButcombeMan

          Not tonight.
          The Hamas spokesman was in denial.

          • Patriccia Shaw

            Jon Snow whose reports are excellent, informative and accurate can be targeted and vilified by the apologists of those who choose to obliterate schools and hospitals?

            • Andy

              How the f*ck do you know if they are ‘accurate’ ? He just feeds your hate of Jews that’s all.

              • Patriccia Shaw

                Listen to Ban Ki Moon

                • Damaris Tighe

                  I do & lose the will to live.

                • allymax bruce

                  Good! Hurry up then, you snivelshit troll.

              • allymax bruce

                Hate of Zionists; not Jews.
                Big difference!

            • Colonel Mustard

              But telemachus, you are an apologist for Islamic terrorists, blaming their crimes on their victims and you profess admiration for Stalin, a tyrant and mass murderer.

              And that is an excellent, informative and accurate assessment of what makes you tick.

              • allymax bruce

                And aren’t you an apologist for Zionist terrorists?
                I tried to post this on Melanie’s article but was blocked; Melanie, I’m a Christian, and I don’t see why the Israeli government, with thier high-tech’ weapons, army, logistics, have to bomb the Palestininas in Gaza to the massacre & destruction of everything & everybody. The Zionist Israeli government originally said their bombing massacre of innocent civilians was in retaliation for the murder of three Israeli teenagers, (by unknown assailants!), and when
                the World media began to ‘question’ this premise, the Israeli Zionist government changed its story to targeting the tunnels. say they Tell me why Israel couldn’t send in house searches to search for these tunnels? Why does Israel, with all its high-tech’ weaponry have to massacre innocent little boys & girls?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  “And aren’t you an apologist for Zionist terrorists?”

                  No, because

                  1. There are no “Zionist terrorists”
                  2. My comment was an observation of what telemachus is an apologist for
                  3. I support Israeli action I do not seek apologise for it

                • allymax bruce

                  Look, Col’. Let’s be honest about this whole thing. The Zionist Israeli government are leading the People of Israel down the same path Hitler led his Nationalist Socialists in 1930’s Germany; if any Jew speaks out against the War Crimes being committed by said Zionist Israeli government, they are ostracised from Israeli Society. That’s the same as what Hitler did in the 1930’s Germany. Moreover, Yahoo is raizing large areas of Gaza to the ground with bombing it; murdering thousands of innocent civilians in the process. Not even Hitler did that! It’s a land-grab, that the Palestinians will never get back; in-fact, I don’t see Yahoo stopping at all! Gaza first, then West Bank next; all within two years. Maybe Noble Annihilation Prize will go to Yahoo this time!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …and your islamofascist Hamas buddies fire volleys of rockets at Israeli civilians, and you support that.

                  Sorry, but the world is just going to have to scorn you and that attitude, lad .

                • Amon Duul

                  There are plenty of Zionist terrorists. Read up on Price Tag attacks.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Nasty though it is, graffitti doesn’t kill.

                • Amon Duul

                  It is far more than graffitti. It is murder and destruction of property.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  But have they hijacked and blown up airliners? Bombed buses and railway stations? Mass murdered people who have nothing to do with Israel or Palestine? Palestinian terror has been exported indiscriminately around the globe for fifty years.

                  You doofus.

                • allymax bruce

                  Nasty though you are, you are the same you snivelshit troll coward.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  No comparison. Read up on Palestinian terror attacks you doofus:-

                  http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=448

                  http://www.skyjack.co.il/chronology.htm

                • Amon Duul

                  Read up on Irgun and Lehi.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  I know all about Irgun and Lehi. Your relativism is obscene.

                • allymax bruce

                  But it’s true; your Zionist scum are hiding behind the all-inclusive banner of ‘The Jews’, when most Jews despise your Zionist extremism.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  It’s not ‘my’ Zionism. I was referring to Israel. Zionism is a cynical construction of the British left so that they can indulge in anti-semitism without appearing to indulge in anti-semitism.

                  Do you have statistics for “most Jews” and a basis for those statistics? I rather suspect that as here the “antis” are a gobby minority with allegiance to more than one noisy protest club.

                • allymax bruce

                  Zionism, is not a ‘cynical construction’, it’s very real; and murdering little children en masse! Zionism is a Political Ideology, used by the current Israeli government. Of whom, openly call themselves ‘Zionists’!
                  Col’, have you seen Abby Martin’s ‘Breaking the Set’ interview with Morton Klein , and Max Blumenthal yet?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  No, I’m not really interested or taken in by hard left/Palestinian terrorist propaganda. There is an agenda at work in the West and it is not “Zionist” or Israeli. The sort of deranged loons who used to run with Baader-Meinhof are now the CEOs of fake charities.

                  Israel and “Zionism” do not threaten me but are a bulwark against something very nasty. My enemy’s enemy is my friend.

                • allymax bruce

                  ‘deranged loons … Baader-Meinhof … fake charities’, yes, I agree, and these are ‘run’ by islamofascists, but these islamofascists are hired by Zionists. It’s the same in Kiev coup; the Zionists ‘install’ geo-rads to stir up chaos, cause war, and destabilise the ‘land’ for takeover. In Ukraine, they install far-Right. In Middle East, they install far-Left; the geo-radicals installed by the Zionists are always geo-sensitive rads to to geographical/Political area. So, in-effect, your enemy’s enemy is actually your enemy! Zionists have no Political or Religious allegiance; it’s all about the money. For Zionists, the World is only a big monopoly gameboard.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  The Hamas islamofascist murderers are firing volleys of rockets at Israeli civilians. Sorry, but Israel wasn’t doing that .Hamas was . That murderous practice must stop immediately.

                • allymax bruce

                  Hasn’t murdered one person in this war you cretinous troll. Go and take your goat out for a walk.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, the mass-murdering islamofascists must love having fascist apologists like you. Hitler had them as well. So did Stalin. Useful idiots, you are .

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You need to tell your murderous Hamas islamofascist buddies to quit firing volleys of rockets at innocent Israeli citizens, lad.

                  That is the next required step here.

                • allymax bruce

                  You need to understand International Law allows the Gazans to resist Israeli Occupation Agresseion War Crimes.
                  Israel is now the Pariah State of the World.
                  But it was always going to be that way; it is foretold!
                  Christians are now waking up to the fact they’ve been conned by the Zionist Judaic religion for centuries.

                  ‘We’re not goy anymore’; is th chant being heard all around the World.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Your islamofascist buddies can blast as many volleys of rockets at Israeli civilians as they want, lad. They just have to accept the consequences of their murderous ways .

                  It’s only you anti-semite nutters shrieking that “pariah” state nonsense, lad. The other Mideast thugocrats are fully accepting of this, as we see. They know your islamofascist buddies are like rabid dogs and have to be put down. They know them better than anybody.

                  You’re about as Christian as your garden variety atheist, lad.

                • Amon Duul

                  You are about as racist as you can get. Lassie.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, lad, but you are definitely a troll.

                • allymax bruce

                  Hiram, your goat, says you’re lying again!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  So you’re a troll on narcotics then, lad?

                • allymax bruce

                  A garden variety Christian; that’s my ex-wife you’re thinking of.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, I’m thinking of garden variety atheist, the type who slipped the moral moor long ago.

                • allymax bruce

                  The only moral mooer that has been ‘slipped’ is when you thought Daisy was Hiram!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …we can always count on you jocks to work your favorite intimacy partners into the discussion, lad.

            • ButcombeMan

              I do not agree about Snow, I find him fairly useless and often showing bias.
              HE DID rather uncharacteristically persist against the Hamas spokesman so I give credit for that. In general he is not a quality intervier in the class of Andrew Neil.
              He should pack in now. He is making C4 news unwatcheable.
              His standing somewhere, anywhere and shouting at the viewer is plain silly.

      • Donafugata

        Snow joined Douglas’s blog the other day and must be fully aware of how many of us feel.

        Maybe he decided to go for some balance, just for once but really, the Hamas spokesman was such a barefaced twister of truth that even Snow got exasperated.

        • Makroon

          The “demographic” on here is hardly similar to that watching Channel 4 – why would Snow care.
          It is pretty startling that so many kippers seem to have an intimate knowledge of Channel 4 News, and Snow’s every move. Why ?

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …maybe conservatives want to know you socialists better?

            You know… “know your enemy”?

          • Donafugata

            Depending on what I’m doing I watch the early evening news that suits.

            Of all Three main broadcasts between 6 and 7 pm it is C4 that is, to my mind, the most blatantly biased. It continually questions Israel’s action but never mentions the aggression from Hamas, it is quite demented in its absolution of Palestine.

            Don’t vote for Hamas again is all there is to say to Gazans, I have no sympathy whatsoever.

    • NotYouNotSure

      It has nothing to gain from killing children, but it has nothing to lose either. The USA will support Israel unconditionally, Israel knows this and thus knows it will never has to face the consequences of its actions. The killing of children probably gets some domestic Israeli support, you can even find comments here from people that openly support the eradication of Gazans.

      • global city

        Really? You have just stated that Israelis like the death of kids…subtext, these bastards are so evil that Hamas are right to want to see every one of them dead…. Jew kids included.

        What a strange person.

      • Baron

        Nope, NotYouNotSure, they have alot to lose. Israel is a democracy, not a perfect one, but democracy nevertheless. If it was found the soldiers did kill kids deliberately the Israeli military courts will step in, they did in the past, the officers got punished.

    • allymax bruce

      Stop whinging you shill, Jon Snow & C4 were right on the money tonight.
      Your problem is that you’ve forced the anti-semetic imposition on the whole world so much, even where it wasn’t merited, it means less than what it should. You’ve destroyed your own goose that laid (derivative worth only! ), golden eggs!

      • Mike

        How many thousands of Muslims & Christians have been beheaded, tortured and killed by other Muslims in the ME compared to Palestinians killed in Gaza by a country trying to protect its civivilian population from rockets.

        You can try and give Israel a guilt trip but the killing carried out by Muslims say the opposite !

        • allymax bruce

          ‘Who’ manufactured the breakdown of controlled States like Iraq, Syria, etc, where Christians lived peacefully side-by-side with the other religions? None of what’s happened in the Middle East is by chance; it has all been ‘orchestrated’ for the benefit & purpose of one State only; Israel. It is Israel who has manufactured this whole mess; blame those who are to blame, not those you want you can blame!
          Tell me why Israel couldn’t send in house searches to search for these tunnels? Why does Israel, with all its high-tech’ weaponry have to massacre innocent little boys & girls?

          • Mike

            And I supposed they manufacture 9/11, 7/7, The Madrid Train bombing and many other global atrocities just to get America on their side (although not currently with Obama) and tstir the pot. You conspiracy nutters would be hilarious if the subject matter wasn’t so serious.

            • allymax bruce

              Well, just ask Jack Straw if his ‘rendition & torture’ conspiracy theories are true! We all know you’re lyiong; why? Because you’re a Zionist!
              http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/apr/18/jack-straw-libya-rendition
              Seems we can’t trust any of the Establishment to tell us the truth; no, all they say is ‘it’s all a conspiracy theory’.
              But it’s not !

              • Mike

                I believe that rendition & torture are true and I disagree with methods used but the deaths at the hands of Islamic Jihadists is certainly not a conspiracy theory but a very clear fact. Unlike left wing apologists, I have no trouble in condemning things like rendition whilst also condemning Islamic terrorists but lefties excuses all manner of atrocities that I’ve previously listed because its not politically correct to mention it.

                • allymax bruce

                  Well, go murder the jihadis then; not mass murder of innocent children Crimes Against Humanity!

                • Mike

                  I’m sure Israel and many others would love to do this but theres that inconvenient fact that Hamas hide behind women and children, cowards that they are.

                  As I’ve said before, they’re like spoiled kids who antagonise another kid and when that kid finally retaliates, they scuttle off to the teachers or mothers for protection. Thats the measure of all islamofacists, they’re a bunch of spineless individuals who run away at the first sign of trouble.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …always amusing when you fascists shriek about “Crimes Against Humanity”, lad.

            • Amon Duul

              Irrelevant to Gaza.

              • Mike

                Same religion, same terrorists with the only difference being that the suicide bombers had the guts to play it out through their own deaths whilst Hamas plays their game through the deaths of Palestinians.

              • Mike

                Funny how its always ‘irrelevant’ to you wet liberals if you cant counter a fact with a realistic counter fact. You’re pathetic and its about time you had the cajones to stand up and be counted instead of doing a ‘Hamas’ and running away from the truth !

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Your murderous islamofascist buddies are manufacturing the breakdown of Libya, Syria and now Iraq, laddie. They’re not fussy .They like to slaughter everybody.

            • allymax bruce

              G-string, I don’t have any ‘islamofascist buddies’. In-fact, I don’t actually know any Muslims.
              Spin your cretinous lies all you like; people, the World is seeing through your evil lies now. But, that’s what Zionists like you do; lie, lie, lie; you are told it’s your ‘right’ to lie to Christian goy like me.
              Well, G-string, lie all you want; we all know you’re lying now. Anything Zionists say, is always taken as a lie now. Nobody, and I mean nobody in the world, trusts Zionists anymore!

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Of course you have islamofascist buddies, lad. You rant incessantly at the Jews you hate, but say nothing about your islamofascist murderer buddies, firing volleys of rockets at Israeli civilians, intent on slaughter.

                Oh and do FO with your “zionist” nonsense, lad.

                • you_kid

                  now wait a minute, is it not English?
                  islamofascism certainly *ain’t*.

                  http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Zionism?q=zionist#Zionism__7

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No need to wait a minute or a second, laddie. You’re a fascist, and cousin to your islamofascist murderer buddies Hamas, and the other islamofascists, like the ones you and your sockpuppet army cheered for in Syria.

                  All you fascists are alike, and relish mass murder to get your way. It’s in your nature.

                • allymax bruce

                  So, Miss G-string, tell me all about these ‘islamofascists’. Do you see them everywhere?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  We all see islamofascism in your posts, lad.

                • you_kid

                  Ditch your Birkenstock and yoghurt knitted cardi lad, and then wash your mouth out.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Can any other of you socialist nutters translate this nutter’s gibberish?

          • Mike

            You’re so called states didn’t exist 50years ago for the most part !

        • Amon Duul

          Irrelevant to the situation in Gaza.

          • Mike

            Not at all, its the nature of the beast which is the cancer of militant Islam.

            Here’s a bit of history for you – During the 1930’s Germany’s brown shirts, a facist organisation grew from strength to strength bullying, intimidating and beating up those it didn’t agree with. You know, a bit like Islamofascists today who do the same in the west and far worse in the Middle East. Whilst the brown shirts went on their rampage, Mosley a British fascist created his own group called the Black Shirts. We weren’t at war with germany so what was to fear from Mosleys mob rule.

            They were inextricably linked and the UK government of the day had the sense to ban thatfascist party. The real shame is the current western governments havent the cajones to ban Islamofacist groups in the EU. The situation in Gaza is no different to Syria, Iraq or Libya as its roots all come from militant Islam out to conquer the world just like the brown & black shirts tried.

    • Damaris Tighe

      It’s the very incitement that they’re so terrified of when it comes to ciriticising muslims.

      • Alexsandr

        mebbe they dont want a mob of screaming muzzies outside the Ch 4 studios. Cant say I blame them really.

        • Amon Duul

          mUZZIES? RACIST?

          • Alexsandr

            Islam is a religion, not a race. a race is a genetically separate set of people. like Negroes, or Chinese or Europeans..
            buy a dictionary, sonny

            and dont lecture me about religious intolerance. Look at the written stuff in the Koran, Fatwas and stuff like the Hamas charter that’s stiff with religious intolerance, that we can see in ISIS. Intolerance to other Muslims and to other religions.

            • Amon Duul

              The word Muzzies is racist. Don’t lecture me on intolerance until you have acknowledged that the Torah is chock full of it.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …nothing to acknowledge other than that Hamas are a mafia gang of islamofascist murderers, lad.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      Anti-Semitism; that’s what the Jews always say. And get away with thanks to shills like Douglas Murray.
      Pariah nation status beckons, Israel. In fact its already arrived.

      • Mike

        There’s none so blind as those who will not see and you fit the bill to a tee !

      • Shorne

        Article 7 of the HAMAS Charter(Note it says Jews not Israelis)

        “The hour of judgment shall not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them,so that the Jews hide behind trees and stones, and each tree and stone will say: ‘Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him”

        “The Jewish people are to be exterminated,” says every party member.That’s clear, it’s part of our program, elimination of the Jews, extermination;right, we’ll do it.”
        Heinrich Himmler 1943

        HAMAS is blatantly anti-Semitic those who support it should bear in mind another quote
        “A Man Is Known By The Company He Keeps”
        Aesculapius (probably)

        ‘Pariah nation status’
        Well perhaps you should look around you for things like this
        “Most of the components of the Windows XP operating system were developed in Israel.
        An Israeli company invented the technology behind ICQ instant messaging.An Israeli company invented the network security technology, such as the firewall.The first PC anti-virus was invented in Israel.” – use any of this do you?

        Then there are things like this (Pew Research Survey)
        “Black and Hispanic Americans both support Israel by more than a 2:1 ratio. Black Americans stand at 43 per cent support for Israel compared to 20 per cent for Palestinians while, among Hispanics, the numbers drop to 43 per cent and 17 per cent respectively.”

    • Baron

      Here is someone who has something of substance to say on the bigger picture, one that goes beyond the current hostilities, it lasts over an hour, but it’s well worth listening to for it offers a solution that could work for both sides:

      http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/07/caroline_glicks_capitol_hill_briefing.html

    • Donafugata

      Having run out of sick bags while watching Jon ” Joseph Goebbels” Snow, last night I switched to ITN News at 6pm.

      To my amazement they told the story from the Israeli side. Far from being the crude, unsafe burrows that I had imagined, the Palestinian tunnels were seriously well constructed with a power supply and water.

      I also hadn’t realised that on occasions, Palestinians have successfully emerged from the ground into Israel.

      The Israeli perspective was a refreshing change from the usual wailing Arabs running around with white bundles, allegedly dead children.

  • Newcombe

    Something akin to the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, is there a Middle East Judeo-Christian Solidarity Campaign, or indeed any group that lobbies for the rights, privilages and safety of Jews and Christains in Islamic countries then please let me know, I’d like to join.

    • Jack

      Pretty sure if they want you on a march they’ll want you with or without a flask. Can’t see that swinging the decision.

    • Amon Duul

      Judeo Christian Solidarity society? Yes – the US.

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