Blogs Coffee House

Video – The leader of ISIS makes his first public appearance

5 July 2014

5:31 PM

5 July 2014

5:31 PM

A video has just emerged of the new ‘Caliph’, otherwise known as the leader of the Islamic State (aka ISIS). Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is shown leading Friday prayers earlier this week at the Great Mosque in Mosul.

For all those people who think that American power is the problem in the world, or that everything would be better if only America kept out of things, this is a nice taste of the future. Here’s what the world looks like without America.

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Show comments
  • fateme
  • John

    I don’t understand what you people are arguing about. The video contains no translation, so I’m pretty sure none of you understand what this man said at all. Yet you have an opinion as soon as you see unusual clothing and people sitting in a mosque.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=penghu&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=L8bYTq-CKIrGmQW9u7TxCw&ved=0CGoQsAQ&biw=1280& Pescadorean

    The enemy of civilisation is religion. Currently this is its most virulent form (but all regions have the innate ability to turn malignant, as history has shown on too many occasions). Hitchins was right – religion poisons everything.

  • mrCurmudgeon

    “For all those people who think that American power is the problem in the
    world, or that everything would be better if only America kept out of
    things…”

    HA! HA! …ISIS, likely, would not even exist if it wasn’t for Bush’s Bungled Adventure in Iraq. And even if they did, they certainly wouldn’t have achieved such a stranglehold on the area, given Saddam’s penchant for ruling as a one-man show. But, with the power-vacuum America left behind, we now have this mess. Sometimes, when you’ve dug yourself into a hole, it’s best to just stop digging.

  • global city

    I know that these are seriously bad people, ……. but he’s wearing a frock!

  • MarVista509

    Are you sure the man is who he is?

    • the viceroy’s gin

      He’s an MI plant.

      I had him spotted straightaway.

    • Augustus

      Can anyone be sure of anything the Devil isn’t capable of? But considering IS(IS) have conquered a vast area of Iraq, and that this man was delivering a sermon at an important regional mosque in a city of some two million. That he demanded that all Muslims pledge allegiance to him, that he claims descent from the Prophet Mohammed and confirms the establishment of an Islamic caliphate, if he’s not al-Baghdadi himself he’s putting on a pretty good pretense of being him.

      • MarVista509

        It happened before in history
        the U.S was run by the wife of President Wilson during his last year as a sicko, who knows?
        I am simply posing a question!
        How can one tell from one mug shot from 10 years ago,
        suddenly a Barbero doing his holy number?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Yeah, after that bearded lady won the Eurovision contest, you can’t trust anybody anymore.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Can anyone suggest why ISIS and Boko Haram are essentially given a free rein with Kerry saying, “We don`t want to bomb them (ISIS) as it might cause civilian casualties. Pause for renewed laughter. When has that stopped you before?
    What`s the cunning plan here? Provide the justification for WWIII. China and Russia have issues with their Islamic minorities and world over-population is becoming a pressing problem.
    Nice neutral Buddhist country anyone?

  • andy_gill

    Can’t we get the Caliph to declare a fatwa against any Muslim who does not immediately go and live in the Caliphate?

    It would solve our immigration problem at a stroke, and he’s so thick he’d probably fall for it.

  • BoiledCabbage

    Evolution is not finished! And the next major step may be regressive, at least in some parts of the world.

  • Saikourufu

    But this guy only appeared because the US destroyed Saddam’s state machinery…

  • Amir
  • The Masked Marvel

    Unfortunately, Douglas, this will be lost on the “Boooosh! Blaaaaaair!” crowd. These people live in a fantasy world where all would have been well if we had simply kept propping up the vile and troublesome dictators. Of course, before Sadaam was removed, the same crowd were always scolding us about how the problems over there were caused by us propping up those same vile and troublesome dictators, but never mind the doublethink.

    The current mantra (so typically displayed by Rod Liddle in his recent rant) is that getting involved always leads to failure, and we should blame only Bush/Blair for starting it instead of placing even a tiny bit of blame on Obama for throwing away all the gains that had been made and openly giving those wanting to cause violence a clear signal that it was time to start planning their attacks and releasing the leader from prison so he could get on with it.

    Imagine observing a child crossing the street in the middle of the road, not using the intersection or traffic lights, while no cars can be seen for miles in either direction. Then imagine yelling after the child that it’s dangerous to cross the road like that, she might get hit by a car. This same mindset then would compel you to go out into the middle of the road and grab the child by the arm, stand there with her, and lecture her about how dangerous it is to cross the road in the middle like that. You continue to stand there restraining the child, preventing her from getting across to the other side, until a car finally comes along and hits her. Then, you triumphantly lecture everyone else about how we must finally learn that it’s dangerous to cross in the middle of the road like that.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      I hold no brief for Obama, but your facts are in a bit of disarray. George W. Bush negotiated a full withdrawal from Iraq by 2011, and that plan was agreed and signed-off long before Obama came around.

      There was no “throwing away all the gains”. There were no gains. Some fools fantasized they could do nation-building in the Arabian Peninsula. They were fools then, and anybody fantasizing they could nation-build there today is a fool.

      • The Masked Marvel

        No, he didn’t. The expectation was that some troops would remain as support and training. Also, as this was long before anyone thought Obama would be President, it was generally expected that the next Administration would continue negotiating with the Iraqi government to maintain some presence. There was never anything like a clear withdrawal signal given.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          The interventionist zealots may have had “expectation” that US troops would remain in Iraq, but the US government and Bush didn’t agree with your “expectation”, and opted for withdrawal by 2011. .

          There was everything like a clear withdrawal signal given. I’m sorry but you just don’t have a factual understanding of this.

    • HookesLaw

      Congress proposed a withdrawal in 2007 and Bush vetoed it. An agreement was then signed to withdraw US fighting troops in Dec 2011, that was after years of training and build up of the Iraqi Army.
      It was still mpossible to extend this for various reasons but nothing was agreed. The Iraqis would not give immunity I think to US soldiers and that I think was the final reason for them withdrawing. I don’t think it was what the US wanted and it was foolish by the Iraqis but it was their democratically elected govt that decided.

  • Amir
  • Colonel Mustard

    It’s a sad prospect for England when the resident Cameron “Conservative” and the resident Stalinist for Labour find common ground in excusing the terror of the Caliphate which has nothing to do with Islam, of course.

    • Mynydd

      I have not heard any politician, including Muslim ones, excusing the terror of the Caliphate, quiet the opposite all parties of all colours have condemned ISIS.

      • Colonel Mustard

        But I wasn’t referring to politicians…

  • Terry Field

    Only a self-hating cretin would regret American power in the world

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes, but isn’t that in-kind to what the self-hating cretin typed above:

      “Here’s what the world looks like without America.”

      It’s hard to know where to start with that confused nonsense. Apparently, this child is waiting for Santa Claus to deliver him toys.

  • Lucy Sky Diamonds

    I would have a pint with him.

  • Gwangi

    Caliphate it go ballistic Abu is atrocious….

    Yes?

    Yes!!!!

  • Gwangi

    Oh yep sure, this guy is a Caliph – self-elected and self-appointed, in the great traditional of Islamic nuttery.

    Either that of it’s Sasha Baron-Cohen showing off again. Boy does that mentsh have some chuddies chutzpah. Oy vey!

    The first Caliph was Mohamed’s father-in-law and all other Caliphs had some family connection to him. Having said that, he also had a 6- year old wife, so maybe we shouldn’t consider him a role model (will Operation Yewtree go back that far in its investigations, I wonder?)

    Me, I’m actually an emperor, but I try to keep it quiet…Just in case my former slaves claim reparations an ting, innit?

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  • Bonkim

    US missed out bombing Damascus and getting rid of Assad two years back – a greater monster than Saddam was. ISIS would not have had a chance then.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …yes, bombs away will cure anything. Look at Iraq today. And Libya.

      Founts of liberty, they are.

      • Bonkim

        The objective was to stop the spread of ISIS and Islamic terrorism in the West – people will have to sort themselves out at the locations. Bombing Damascus – just to remove Assad a mass murderer.

        • Gwangi

          Or perhaps it was preferable to have Gadaffi, Hussein and Assad (and much hatred against Assad is because he is a Christian and Muslim fighters want to kill all non-Muslims – though they spend most of the time killing each other though).
          Better to have stable countries run by secular-ist dictators than Islamic nuttery any day. Assad isn’t trying to bomb us, is he? Unlike the Muslims.

          • Bonkim

            Is Assad a Christian? How did he manage to gain power with the help of the Alawites and Iran? I bet he would have had a Fatwa on him if he was a Christian.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …you interventionist nutters have put a fatwa on him anyways, so what difference does it make?

              • Bonkim

                Quite a difference – Allah will not forgive you if you kill a Muslim unless he is apostate or convert out – but if you are a Christian – no need for Fatwa – you can have a go – 70 virgins await you in heaven.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …I doubt anybody but uncivilized barbarians and you socialist nutters are concerned over the reasons why the islamofascist murderers fling around their fatwas, lad.

                • Bonkim

                  Definitions of barbarian and uncivilized would vary with societies, locations, and times. What was uncivilized, barbaric, and criminal five decades back such as homosexuality and gay-marriage are today respectable and recommended by the state. Unwed mothers were either thrown into poor houses or ended up as prostitutes in Victorian England – today they have their human rights and supported by the state.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, barbarian, uncivilized and particularly socialist nutter are very easily defined, and it’s only the barbaric, uncivilized socialist nutters who seek confusion in that regard.

                  That would be you, lad.

            • Damaris Tighe

              Assad is an Alawi, which is a shiite offshoot.

              • Bonkim

                Yes – that was the point.

        • Alexsandr

          we could stop islam terrorism in the west by stopping importing them. And stop the flow of money to them by self sufficiency in energy -lets get fracking.

          • Bonkim

            Gas from fracking will also run out same as other hydrocarbon resources – only solution – cut down consumption and also population. The present population and economic activity/consumption just unsustainable.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Sounds good, and you can give us a start by offing yourself, then. You should take as many of your socialist nutter comrades as you can find with you, if you please.

              The rest of us will make use of the ever increasing supply of hydrocarbon resources that you claim are running out, as well as the ever increasing supply of everything else we need to thrive.

              • Bonkim

                Deluded souls live in eternal hope.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …as I say, you might get the ball rolling by offing yourself, lad, and take as many of your socialist nutter comrades with you as you can arrange.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          So you socialist nutters want to help islamofascist murderers so as to keep islamofascism from spreading?

          Do you know how ridiculous you are, lad?

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    This clown`s doing you all a favour if you did but know it, by disclosing the undiluted face of Islam extremism. The enemy is at the gate and the gate is open. In a couple of generations Europe will democratically enact sharia law. Suck it up, Britisher pals.

    • Bonkim

      Alarmist.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    That video sounds like the typical dirka dirka dirka gibberish:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VHs9m5IUDE

  • Augustus

    IS(IS) has also destroyed Shia mosques and other religious buildings in and around Mosul. And they’ve occupied cathedrals, which they consider ‘pagan temples’ and removed crosses from facades and replaced them with black flags. But not to worry, soon the IS(IS) terrorists will be bombed from the air with Russian planes sent by Iran. As soon as the Iraqi government has defeated IS(IS) with Iran’s help, it will buy billions of dollars worth of weapons from China, Russia and Iran, and the ayatollahs will ensure that Baghdad has a perfect defence system. And when the Shiites are strong enough to attack the Kurds they will do so with their new Russian weapons and well-trained soldiers. What will remain of a Kurdish State is anybody’s guess, but the Kurdish people will again suffer greatly.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      It’s been claimed that 80-90% of Kurdish women are victims of FGM. We should be careful about creating heroes amongst any of these groups. The Kurds don’t appear to be as virulently islamofascist as some of the others, but they’re not kittens either.

      • Augustus

        Nevertheless, the Kurds are perhaps the West’s only true friends in the region apart from Israel. The free world is still supposed to have an obligation to the past, and to have a code of moral values. It can’t afford to simply observe a region critical to its security from the side lines, even if it is more comfortable to appease Putin and Iran at the expense of partners such as the Kurds and Israel.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …I think you’re using the term “true friends” far too promiscuously than a usage required to support a reasoned and responsible foreign policy.

          The Persian Gulf and Straights of Hormuz may have been critical to security years ago, but it’s less so today. It will continue to recede in importance, I suspect, as it should. The rest of the desert really isn’t of importance at all, to the West. Let them kill each other.

          And we’re paying the premium for crude oil today, so there isn’t even an economic incentive to be heavily engaged there.

          • Augustus

            Yes indeed, let them kill each other. But remember our enemies are also among us and increasingly so. An enemy who threatens our culture and way of life. For that is what awaits us if we just shrug off the threat as unthinkable. They are already among us in images and sound, and increasingly in person. Our enemies want to kill us in our own countries, and we just call them traumatized or brainwashed young people. There is actually a verse in the Koran, which our enemies take literally, which states that ‘those who fight against Allah and his Prophet sow destruction on Earth, and will be killed, crucified, or their feet cut off’. In Cairo Obama made a deep bow on behalf of the Western world towards Islam and all Muslims. He quoted from the Koran. He called Islam the religion of peace. There would only be a few extremists who didn’t quite understand the truly peaceful nature of Islam. And after this humiliating bow eternal peace would be a lot closer, even if the West had to remove one last obstacle: the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              I agree with you, that we are vulnerable when we allow our enemies into our midst. But that’s what we should be working on, and not foolish distractions abroad. And yes, Obama is a child, blathering nonsense. We’d all be best to ignore him and wait for the day he’s gone.

              I could make a few exceptions to a non-involvement policy in the ME. I’d be willing to arm Christian enclaves, and provide them advisers and support, including armed drones where it made sense. I’d rather not do this, but if they demonstrated a willingness to stay where they were and fight, I’d support them and help them spare themselves from slaughter.

              • Augustus

                A few days ago BBC News reported as follows:
                “The UK drew up plans to train and equip a 100,000-strong Syrian rebel army to defeat President Bashar al-Assad, BBC Newsnight can reveal. The secret initiative, put forward two years ago, was the brainchild of the then most senior UK military officer, General Sir David Richards. It was considered by the PM and the National Security Council, as well as US officials, but was deemed too risky. The UK government did not respond to a request for comment. Lord Richards, as he is now, believed his proposal could stem the civilian bloodshed in Syria as rebels fought troops loyal to Mr Assad….”
                http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28148943

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  That effort is just an addendum to Sykes-Picot. That’s what’s really taking place here. The borders are being adjusted, with a bit of bewhiskered rug jumping tomfoolery attached.

            • Damaris Tighe

              Not only this but last month Pope Francis invited an imam to an ecumenical event at the Vatican, during which this imam said an unscripted triumphalist prayer in arabic. This was broadcast throughout the muslim world, but the Vatican cut the prayer out of their recording.

      • Bonkim

        Khurds practise FGM?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          The do-gooders are claiming they do, and to the numbers I posted. I’m always suspicious of the NGO’s, mind you. They’re lousy with globalist nutters, who have their own agendas.

          But it’s worth considering, and in that part of the world, nobody’s a kitten.

        • HookesLaw

          http://gulfnews.com/news/region/iraq/how-kurdistan-ended-female-genital-mutilation-1.1246823

          Its illegal in Khurdistan.
          Interestingly one quote is…
          Mullah Omar Chngyani, an Islamic scholar, has written extensively about
          the subject. “This practice is not in Islam, it’s a traditional practice
          not a religious one — it’s a form of oppression for women”. It’s a
          tradition that’s been passed on through generations.’

          We should not be surprised that many muslims are ignorant of their own religion when people on here repeat the lies and myths. Lies and ignorance are friends to prejudice.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            So it was “outlawed”, is it?

            You’re always a hoot, laddie.

            • HookesLaw

              It is illegal. Mr Hoot. Do you want to deny that fact. In the same way its illegal here.
              FGM is a disgrace and it goes on all over the world. In places where it is illegal.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …and you repeat the nonsense. Heh.

                You’re definitely worth the price of admission, lad .

        • Damaris Tighe

          They certainly practice honour killings which is odd, as they have women soldiers.

          • Bonkim

            Honour killings were prevalent in many European societies – Greeks, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese – see some of Shakespeare’s plays and the tensions where man or woman marries out of ones station/tribe.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …what’s that to do with today?

              • Bonkim

                Why not? Why do you expect all societies to behave like yours?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No need to bother reading that nonsense.

                  What do your references to past history have to do with the savage barbarism you socialist nutters are coddling today, lad?

                • Daidragon

                  You have zero self awareness. Hilarious.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …says the socialist nutter.

                  Hilarious.

    • HookesLaw

      Puritans ransacked churches. Religious extremism is as irrational as all extremism.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …then why is it that you socialist Camerloon nutters are supporting it, laddie?

        • HookesLaw

          They aret here are no ‘socialist Camerloon nutters’, only rational conservatives who oppose extremist right wing nutjobs like you..
          How is the Grand Wizard these days

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Of course there are socialist Camerloon nutters, laddie. Go look in the mirror.

            And the surest way to identify you socialist Camerloon nutters is that you support the islamofascist murderers in Libya and Syria. By the way, how many Christians do you and your islamofascist buddies want to murder in those countries, lad?

            • HookesLaw

              You must have your bedsheet on backwards, lad – the holes go at the front.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …and perhaps the socialist nutter translator can translate this gibberish, as well.

                • HookesLaw

                  Stop pretending.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …maybe you and the sockpuppet troll can share a socialist nutter translator, lad.

  • Mynydd

    ISIS is a major problem for Mr Cameron/Hague. They sent aid and supplies the Syrian anti-government forces, which included ISIS, to overthrow the Assad government. They were only stopped bombing Syria at the last moment by a vote in the House of Commons lead by Labour and supported by Lib Dems and back bench Conservatives. Just imagine what would have been the result if Mr Cameron/Hague/ISIS had overthrown the Assad government. Christians would have been the first to go to the village square for public beheading.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …a not so slight correction. UKIP came out against Field Marshal Dave’s excellent Syrian campaign, and the Millipedes then decided they were against it, too. The Millipedes were reactive then, as we see.

      I have to admit, it was a brilliant piece of political maneuvering, for the Millipede to suddenly turn against that fiasco. UKIP would have politically triangulated against LibLabCon in a most spectacular fashion, if those muppets had collectively engaged in another of their quagmires, against UKIP’s expressed position.

      But the Millipede feverishly moved to cover his flank, and let’s make no mistake, it had absolutely nothing to do with principle. Absent UKIP, that muppet would have gone bombs away same as the rest of the LibLabCon clones.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Fat chance that socialist nutter will acknowledge the truth of that argument.

      • Mynydd

        I will tell you some simple facts: UKIP have no MPs therefore had no vote in the HoC. Most outside parliament were against the bombing of Syria, UKIP were, maybe, just a small part of it. Mr Miliband as said he doesn’t read the newspapers therefore cannot know what UKIP are even talking about. As for following their leader you must be joking. Just get over it UKIP as power to act only talk and that’s cheap.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          You best take it up with your Millipedal brethren, lad. They were the ones feverishly scrambling to cover UKIP’s stated position, after previously vowing to go bombs away. That’s why their LibLabCon mates were so enraged with them, that they shirked their previous vow.

          It’s also why the Millipedes are and will be mirroring UKIP’s positions, right up until elections 10.0 months from now. They know UKIP can erode their support massively.

          • Mynydd

            When I was young I might have said Millipedal, or Millipedes, but I have grown up I say Miliband.
            I’ll put it again simple for you, what counts is votes in the HoC not back chat in the local pub.
            When will UKIP erode Labours support massively, I would remind you at the May elections Mr Miliband’s Labour party increased its number councillors more than UKIP did, the number of councils it controls, by the way, UKIP controls no councils, and it increased the number of it MEPs. So where did UKIP erode their support massively, dream on.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              You can call the Millipede whatever you’d like, troll.

              What counts is the Millipedes scrambling to abandon their bombs away position re Syria, like cockroaches from the light, because UKIP threatened to wreck them come election time.

              I would remind you that the Millipedes finished well behind UKIP last May. That’s why they’re scrambling to cover their exposed flank, and protect it from UKIP.

            • Colonel Mustard

              Welsh Labour are cutting the NHS:-

              http://yourvoiceintheassembly.co.uk/welshnhscuts/

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Your trying to persuade the thickest socialist troll on this site. I wouldn’t bother.

        • Alexsandr

          so a party that is likely to skew the 2015 GE result has no influence in the HoC? Umm, i think marginal MP’s may see it differently.

          • Mynydd

            No MPs in the HoC equals no votes, equals no influence, Simple.

        • Colonel Mustard
      • Daidragon

        UKIP are irrelevant in parliament and had nothing to do with the Syria vote.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          You’re just wrong, that’s all.

          • Daidragon

            They don’t have a single MP. Totally irrelevant to parliamentary votes.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              You’re just wrong, that’s all.

              • Daidragon

                No I’m not. That’s all. No MP’s equals no influence in parliament.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You’re just wrong, that’s all.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Let me explain. Miliband is relying on receiving 35% of the vote which when combined with Labour’s unfair boundary advantages should win him the 2015 general election. He has no appeal to sensible, hard working people like Blair once did so that 35% is crucial. Should he start losing votes to UKIP, as he is currently doing, then his 35% strategy is in tatters and he cannot win in 2015. Thus UKIP have considerable influence over Labour’s strategy regardless of the fact that they have no seats in the House of Commons at present. Why do you think the preposterous little fool is agonising over an EU referendum and immigration etc?

                • Daidragon

                  Ah the Dan Hodges theory. All the signs are that UKIP are hurting the Tories far more than Labour. A high turnout for UKIP is good news for Labour.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  You just keep telling yourself that laddie if it gives you comfort.

    • MissDemeanor

      i don;t think christian killings are a problem to Hague and Cameron (and Obama)

      they completely turned their backs to the murdered copts in Egypt, after they helped put the MB into power

      the only problem arises for those 3 traitors is when muslims are being killed:

      ‘Look, our enemies are slaughtering each other, we must stop them’…..is more their dhimmi style

  • Pangur Ban the Cat

    The video shows an Arabic man proselytizing his message.There are no teleprompters visible so he has his message memorized. I don’t understand Arabic, so without subtitles or a translated trasnscript, I don’t know what he said.

    He sounds like any politician anywhere in the world no matter the language or culture. I heard the word muslim a number of times, and heard Mujahadeen once and jihad maybe 3 times. Hard to know in reference to what.

    The author of the article compares American power to this organization, and that this is what another kind of power looks like and concludes that American power is better.

    Seems like the author’s comments fails Sagan’s Baloney Detection Kit with flying colors. You could link this video to one of Cheney or Dubya ranting on about WMD and it would look like the same thing only culturally different.

    • 貝瓜525

      I agree with this.

      While I am critical of Islam and its extemism like Mr. Murray is, I also note the role America, mostly the CIA, played pre 1990 in funding and arming the extremists mostly in Afghanistan in response to the Communist coup and subsequent Soviet invasion.

    • Sintram

      You are absolutely right. The man looks like any peace loving muslim.

  • 貝瓜525

    Mr. Murry, isn’t America partly responsible for the de-facto break up of the Iraqi state, thus bringing this man to this position? If only the 2003 invasion did not occur…

    • Gwangi

      ‘If only the 2003 invasion did not occur…’
      ‘HAD not OCCURRED’
      3rd conditional.
      ‘If only the invasion had not occurred, then everyone in the Middle East would be happy Islamo-bunnies.’
      Correct conditional; very wrong conclusion though…
      The whole pace is a chaotic hellhole and always has been. As Lawrence of Arabia said when watching the Arab tribes fight amongst themselves: ‘The Arabs are a silly people; they always have been and always will be’. (

      • 貝瓜525

        I don’t agree with this. The place had not been chaotic up to 2003 because there was a state and a government there. Ignorant and arrogant America and Britain destroyed that government and state, and failed to rebuild it. Your quote from an old British rat implies that he looked down upon them and maybe hated them, and that there were some power struggle before a state was formed, and nothing more useful.

        • Colonel Mustard

          You have conveniently airbrushed from your tenuous grasp of history Saddam’s war on Kurdish civilians using chemical weapons, his invasion of Kuwait as well as the Iran-Iraq war, eight years long with a million or more lives lost. And that does not even touch on his crimes against his own people.

          To assert the place had not been chaotic up to 2003 takes moronic ignorance to staggering new heights.

          • 貝瓜525

            Yes there were all those bad things, but compare them to the possible establishment of the “Islamic State”.

            There were no Al Qaeda nor ISIS or any crazies before, and that is an important point long term, even imo to Kurds and Kuwatis. Iraq under Mr. Saddam Hussein was not an Islamic state, Islamic extremists were his mortal enemies. It was natural and better to let his people and his regime to let take their natural progress through history.

            • Colonel Mustard

              Maybe, but your original assertion that there was no chaos in the place up to 2003 was simply wrong. There has been chaos in Iraq (and its predecessor states) throughout its history.

              • 貝瓜525

                These were bad things, but not chaos. Islamic etremists creating an Islamic state is a chaos. In my opinion.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Then you have a very narrow definition of what is chaos. For me it is the opposite of the well ordered, stable and peaceful state we once had here.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  If that “chaos” reaches Europe and North America, it’s because their stupid governments act stupid domestically, not because of foreign affairs in the Arabian Peninsula.

  • Terry Field

    He looks like one of those chaps from the ‘Knights who say niff’
    Things are on the downward slope.
    Peas be upon you all.
    (And Brussel sprouts, chard, cabage and shallots)

    • Shazza

      When referring to the prophet (pbh) the p should rhyme with Swiss not cheese.

      • Terry Field

        Thank you.

    • Inverted Meniscus

      Mmmm. More like the knights that go ecky, ecky, ecky in my view.

  • Nick

    This is straight out of Greenmantle! Send for Sandy Arbuthnot!!

  • sarah_13

    Well said.

  • balance_and_reason

    Amazing, he’s got a beard…..and is wearing a dress….wonders will never cease.

    • Alexsandr

      its robert runcie!

  • FrenchNewsonlin

    Bit like Bercow at PMQs, could do with an editor.

  • Alexsandr

    what I find hard to take is that in the 21st century, with what we know in the world, that supposedly intelligent people actually think these nutters have anything to offer.

    • HookesLaw

      I doubt that very few people think these nutters have anything to offer, which is why we need to oppose them. Otherwise they win by default.
      As for what we know of the world we rely on reporting for that so no surprises that we are left in ignorance.

      • Alexsandr

        I am afraid many in the UK are unaware how dangerous these tw@ts are. Pity the MSN does not report the truth. but hey, your mate cameron says they are the religion of peace so it must be OK.

        • HookesLaw

          Its you who are always banging on about the religion of peace.
          If people are unaware then the media are the people disseminating the message.

          The sad fact is you tar everyone by the actions of a few nutjobs. I know that most Britons are not racist despite UKIP, Farage and all his dog whistling.

          • Alexsandr

            read your Koran, hooky. look what it says about slaying apostates and infidels.

            this may give a taste, but find other translations and interpreattions

            http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

            • telemachus

              Both of you need to give the man a fair hearing
              *
              “I am your leader, though I am not the best of you, so if you see that I am right, support me, and if you see that I am wrong, advise me,” he told worshippers.

              • Alexsandr

                he is wrong. he believes in a deity. and he came to power at the barrel of a gun.

                • telemachus

                  How different is that from Malaki who came to power at the barrel of Blair’s gun manufactured in Leeds
                  *
                  How different is the Caliph from Crusader Bush?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  “Crusader Bush”? The “Caliph”? So now you are even using the language of Islamic extremists.

                  We have seen this all before with the mass killings during the Iranian revolution. And here you are again attempting to justify the horror.

                • telemachus

                  You have to be able to see things from the enemies’ point of view to defeat them
                  It is the bleaters that get nowhere in this world
                  If you sit in Northern Iraq and have for the last few decades lived at peace under the protection of Saddam and then have your peace and prosperity shattered by a Texan Oik standing on an warship proclaiming a crusade(he did), just what are you going to do when a messiah calling himself a Caliph comes to restore your prowess?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Yes, I have heard your justifications for terrorism and inhumanity before. When evil is unleashed you believe it to be justified by the acts of its victims in “provoking” it.

                  As with Stalin you also believe that it is justified that many should suffer and die in order to build a Soviet-style utopia (that never works).

                • telemachus

                  It does not justify terrorism
                  It explains it
                  The Crusader Bush chickens are coming home to roost

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Terrorism doesn’t need explaining. What is needed is for self-destructive fools like you to get out of the way.

                • Cyril Sneer

                  Crusader Blair too but oh look you have failed to mention him.

                  You’re Labour right?

                • Cyril Sneer

                  You forgot the mention Tony Blair and the fact that he was Prime Minister and leader of THE LABOUR PARTY when we invaded Iraq.

                • RobertC

                  Try a month in each country and report back to us. We would like to know.

                • telemachus

                  I would rather work on the root cause, namely embracing the Muslims here in the UK

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Then go and work on it and stop posting terrorist apologia here.

                • telemachus

                  We must destroy terrorism
                  AND destroy the causes of terrorism

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Well then we should start by redefining the narratives of terrorist apologists, cultural self-haters and appeasers like you. It is the multi-culti policies that have been imposed by you and your fellow travellers that have fostered alienation and sectarianism here.

                  From hatred of its established values you broke down our society and undermined its homogeny, making it a free for all (literally). You protected and promoted utterly alien and in many cases illegal practices by cultural segregation. You worked tirelessly to imbalance the once impartial rule of law. And you set out to make the protests of the indigenous people the worst crime of all, to shut them up as you sowed the seeds of future chaos.

                  You want to understand one of the root causes of the growth of home-grown terrorism? Look in the mirror telemachus. You and your precious Labour party are it.

                • Cyril Sneer

                  We should make a start by destroying Blair.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  You are part of the problem. You have nothing to offer but nihilism.

              • Colonel Mustard

                So let me get this straight. You are actually defending this man whose followers are murdering large numbers of helpless people because they do not follow the same branch of Islam?

                I thought your attempted justification of Islamic terrorism by blaming its victims was extremist but you ask us to give this man a “fair hearing”? And then do what? Admire him as you would have us admire Stalin?

                And you are (supposedly) a central and influential member of the Labour party who hob-nobs with its leadership? Undecided voters should note the rather terrifying implications of this. Just when is Miliband going to go public with his support for the adoption of sharia law?

                • telemachus

                  Just when has .telemachus defended either the Caliph or Stalin
                  *
                  The irrational (right)delight in misrepresenting the reasonable
                  *
                  If I am wrong advise me”
                  There is some good in all
                  *
                  All you will find from .telemachus in relation to Stalin is to point out that millions of Russions even today regard Stalin as a patriotic hero who turned Russia from a peasant economy to an industrial giant, conquered the Germans and laid the foundations of the Russian conquest of space. The “narrative” changed but the triumphs live on

                • Colonel Mustard

                  telemachus on Stalin:-

                  “Stalin was fighting against great and dark forces of conservatism that wanted to drag the Russian people back into slavery. It was necessary to use a little force to free the people, and Russia under Stalin was one of the most free societies that has existed for those who were on the side of progress.

                  We should be grateful that we have so many politicians about to gain real power in the UK who have come from a background rooted in real socialist theory. For the first time perhaps we can hope to see the best of Stalin’s Russia recreated here in the UK. Thank goodness that what the enemies of freedom for the poor and hardworking might call extreme marxism is represented by the Eds and their colleagues.”

                  Your relish for Soviet/NSDAP type totalitarianism is well attested from many comments you have made here and most tribal socialists appear to have such latent tendencies. Within all strident socialist control freaks are hard line communists wanting to exert absolute power. They are only constrained by limits within the current political system and societal acceptability rather than any moral qualms. A classic example of this is your dismissal of Stalin’s victims as a “necessary” outcome of his power. And now here you are expressing defence if not admiration for another “strongman” Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, referring to him as “the Caliph” in that weird Labour party adoption of familiarity.

                • telemachus

                  ” dark forces of conservatism that wanted to drag the Russian people back into slavery.”
                  These facts even you cannot deny

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Stalin dragged the Russian people into slavery. You are insane if you believe otherwise.

                • Daidragon

                  Do you have any opinions that aren’t based on other countries in the first half of the last century?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Er, it’s not I advocating the Caliphate. Direct your question to the resident Stalinist.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Do you have any opinions that don’t mark you out as a socialist nutter and contemptuous of any opinion that doesn’t coincide with your own ludicrous views. Do you socialist nutters ever get bored regulating other people’s lives and spending their money?

                • Daidragon

                  Bless. Alf Garnett thinks I’m ludicrous.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …as does everybody else.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Well socialist nutters are ludicrous.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Alf Garnett isn’t cutting the NHS budget in Wales. Your Labour comrades are doing that.

                  http://yourvoiceintheassembly.co.uk/welshnhscuts/

            • HookesLaw

              By misrepresenting what the facts are you are no better than the nutjob muslims who invent the facts to suit their own insane bigotry.
              http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread641804/pg1

              By going along with the nutjobs amongst muslims you hinder the efforts of the same ones.

              • Alexsandr

                well, you live in your naive world, ignoring people like boko harem, ISIS , the muslim brotherhood and the taliban. Me, i will remain very wary of this religion.

                • Alexsandr

                  look here for attitudes of muslims. The bit about those who consider the death penalty (as is the law in some islamic states) to be justified for apostasy is scary.. And I believe this to be a mainstream view amongst UK muslims.

                  http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/#prc-jump

                • telemachus

                  Have you ever listened to the Southern Baptist’s views of other branches of Christianity
                  Google Paul Washer and listen to some of his sermons
                  You have to persist because they all start quietly and reasonably

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, I have listened to the Southern Baptist’s view of other branches of Christianity, but apparently, you haven’t, because if you had, you wouldn’t be using them as an example of anything other than moderation.

                • telemachus

                  ” how will you ever lead a Catholic out of his sin and into the only sufficient grace of Christ if you do not clearly point out his sin? Surely we do not believe that we can lead anyone to Christ by generalizing or minimizing his sin.”
                  *
                  This is one of the more moderate quotes of Southern Baptist Pastor Jim Smyrl

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  What’s your point, you lying twit?

                • Alexsandr

                  sorry, i do not recognise you parallel between US christian nutters who as far as I am aware don’t do round killing and maiming people, and the islamist nutters who do.

                • telemachus

                  Christian Terrorism In Oklahoma City

                  (Dan Barker)

                  When extremists from predominantly Moslem countries commit violence, many in the media refer to them as “Islamic terrorists.” So the Oklahoma City bombers are “Christian terrorists”

                  These hate groups, like the Ku Klux Klan, all have bible-based agendas. Timothy McVeigh is a Catholic. The Oklahoma City bomb was detonated on the anniversary of the raid on David Koresh’s Christian militia in Waco.

                  Ignoring the obvious religious connections here, everyone seems eager to turn this tragedy into an opportunity to acknowledge a deity. Oklahoma City invited Billy Graham and President Clinton to pray publicly to their god in an effort to lend some “meaning” to it all. Don’t they see the irrationality of praying to this supposedly omniscient and omnipotent deity?

                  If I had known what was about to happen at 9:02 a.m. on April 19, and if I had had the ability to prevent the horror, I would have tried. Wouldn’t you?

                  But Billy Graham’s all-knowing God (let’s pretend he exists) observed the truck being loaded with explosives. He sat alongside the driver on the trip from Kansas, knowing what he had in mind. He noticed the laughing children entering the day-care center.

                  Graham’s all-powerful “God of love” easily could have prevented the detonation. Yet he did nothing.

                  Graham and Clinton should not be asking their God for comfort. They should be asking him, “Whose side are you on?”

                  What would you call someone who could have stopped the killing, yet sat by and let it happen? I would call him an accomplice.

                  Yet FBI Director Louis Freeh, knowing that his main suspect is Catholic and is associated with Christian right-wing militia groups, called the Oklahoma bombing a “godless act.”

                  There is no reason for our government to equate “godless” with “evil.” The facts of history show that most terrorism and war have some kind of religious motivation. The recent chemical warfare in Japan waged by the “Supreme Truth” religious cult is one example. Since Christianity has a history of bloody persecution, wouldn’t it make more sense for Freeh to identify religion as the culprit here?

                  After all, Jesus reportedly said, “I came not to send peace, but a sword.” This sounds like “Christian terrorism” to me.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Your islamofascist friends are the only ones around this globe who are slaughtering human beings because they don’t agree with their religion, you lying twit.

                • telemachus

                  Can you not read

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, I can read your lies, you lying twit.

                • Paddy S

                  McVeigh was an atheist – he called science his religion. Jesus did not give licence to mass murder – have a look at what he did in the Garden of Gethsemane.
                  You are either moral relativist, a lying new atheist or ignorant.

                • Cyril Sneer

                  Old Mo used to spread Islam by rape and sword. If he were alive today, he’d be a mass murdering rapist.

                  If Jesus were alive today, he’d be a thoroughly nice peaceful chap, someone who’d make a top quality human being.

                  Can you spot the difference?

                • Amy

                  Sorry I’m a late commenter, but the difference as far as I see is as a Christian,I would have no fear for myself or my family confronting a fringe Christian. The sword Jesus is referring to is for Christians themselves, not to destroy non believers. Sin is to be hated but the sinner is to be loved. Prophesy and teachings that have surely been twisted but which are largely believed by Christians world wide. I know many muslims have said to me they are tired of “proving themselves” or apologizing for the actions of a few. Personally, if Hitler were alive today, mass killing people based on a sole identifier, I eould shout from the rooftops, “this man is no Christian. He is a maw on the heart of my faith.”

          • monty61

            Indeed. I joined some (Sunni) Muslim friends of Pakistani origin for the breaking of their ramadan fast only last night. They are truly horrified at this whole business – in Iraq, in Syria, in Nigeria.

            I did detect a note of anti-Americanism and a bit of consipracy thinking in terms of who might benefit from the general mayhem (incoherent and far from thought out) but in general they saw no reason why they couldn’t be properly British and bring up good law abiding children in this society, and were as horrified as any white Brit might be about the prospect of young men in their prime going to fight for a bunch of nutters willing to maim and kill for some imaginary ‘caliphate’.

            If anything the coming to prominence of evil people like ISIS are presenting law abiding British Muslims with something of a challenge to their previously fairly passive approach to life: their parents and grandparents came here often to escape an essentially oppressive life, but here are some of the worst elements coming back to haunt them. They are well aware of the Saudi money that has poisoned many Muslim institutions across the West, with its nasty, one dimensional view of Islam, yet where else are they to send their children for education in the Koran, which they deem important spiritually and culturally? This is something they struggle with.

            I believe my friend (a colleague for 15 years) and his non-chaddor-wearing wife represent the mainstream of the Muslim population of the UK and give the lie to those who somehow tar all Muslims with the same brush. I genuinely believe if they got a whiff of another 7/7 they’d call 999 without hesitation.

            • telemachus

              This too is my experience of relations with Muslims, Sunni and Shia over many many years
              Further most Muslims have as much exposure and regard for the teachings of the Prophet as most of my indiginous friends to the teachings of Jesus

              • Alexsandr

                I know some people of asian origin, various faiths and they dont seem extreme at all. But that odes not take away the fear that in the islamic ghettoes in Luton, Leicester, Dewsbury and Bradford, quite different views are mainstream.

                • telemachus

                  Exactly why we must embrace these people

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You and your fellow travellers have embraced them and this is the result. You have devalued the cultural homogeny of this country and created the multi-culti sectarianism that now foretells chaos. You have excused and appeased extremist practices and distorted the rule of law to accommodate them. Your policies have created segregated ghettos where it is unnecessary to speak English, where schools teach nothing about how this country came to be or its values. And at the same time you have oppressed the once free speech of the English by inventing new words of calumny for them that you would not dare use against the foreign ideologies you have brought here.

                  It is a recipe for an extremism, disorder and chaos which we have already had a taste of and you and your fellow travellers bear much of the responsibility for it. Attempting to lecture us about what should now be done adds insult to injury. Go away and hide your shame.

          • Tom Allalone

            FFS – how many times? Islam is not a race. You’re right, most British people aren’t racist and, in fact, they’ve coped remarkably well with enormous demographic changes over the last 60 years. They do, rightly, object to having our way of doing things sneered at and having to adapt our codes and customs to appease a group of misogynist, homophobic, bigoted, ignorant and aggressive ideologues. No-one gives a stuff about Hindus, Sikhs or Buddhists precisely because they just get on with their lives and do their best to fit in. A lot of Muslims do the same but a disturbingly high proportion don’t – more that 500 Muslim leaders signed a letter protesting against gay marriage – how many condemned what’s been going on in Birmingham Schools? Or stood up for Meriam Ibrahim?

            • HookesLaw

              Oh FFS how many times … Are jews a race? Were jews then not subject to racist attacks by the nazis – and various other groups?
              Do you really think brandishing the small print excuses you?

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …so Madonna and Sammy Davis, Jr. were part of that “race”, is it?

                Stop being a raving socialist nutter, lad.

            • Jackthesmilingblack

              It’s a race when it wants to be. It’s a religion when it wants to be. It’s a culture when it wants to be. Checks all three boxes.
              But if Islam is not a race, how come criticising Islam is considered racist? You can’t have it both ways.

              • telemachus

                I guess you are correct
                Folks posting here are Islamophobic and Racist
                *
                I ask a slightly different question
                Were the billboards carted to the peripheries of immigrant communities in May more likely to be parked next to Muslim immigrant communities

                • global city

                  This type of crap only works when those involved in the debate concede to your assumption that you frame the context of the debate.

                  Once that’s gone the sort of twisted logic that you’ve just tried to deploy just looks silly and actually quite irrelevant.

            • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

              I am not in favour of gay marriage.

              I recognise that ‘political’ Islam is a major threat to Europe only superceded by possible economic collapse due to running economies on ‘funny money’
              ie purchasing power created by issuing an interest bearing debt.

              it matters not how many harmless sheep muslims exist so long as they follow even basic Islam then conflict must ensue.
              Minority activist radicals are what we need to monitor.

              Depending on the definition of racist I would suspect a large number of Brits are racist.
              I would prefer that UK remained predominantly white.
              It doesn’t follow that I hate anyone despite what scrag ends like Will Self believe.

              Other than maintaining a flow of oil we should leave the middle east to its own devices.
              What this would mean for Israel is a problem.
              That problem exists whatever is done by anybody.
              its being so cheerful that keeps me going !

              • telemachus

                So what solution do you have o cheerful one
                *
                There have always been conflict and challenges
                We must rise up and overcome
                *
                How to do this
                In the case of ISIS, recognise the 3 spheres of influence in Iraq
                Recognise an independent Northern Kurdistan
                Recognise and promote with Iran a Southern Shiastan
                And let the Mid Caliphate split Syria with Iraq

                • Cyril Sneer

                  I have a problem with an ideology that would treat me as a 2nd class citizen or at worst, kill me for my beliefs.

              • telemachus

                So what solution do you have o cheerful one
                *
                There have always been conflict and challenges
                We must rise up and overcome
                *
                How to do this
                In the case of ISIS, recognise the 3 spheres of influence in Iraq
                Recognise an independent Northern Kurdistan
                Recognise and promote with Iran a Southern Shiastan
                And let the Mid Caliphate split Syria with Iraq

          • Helmi Bastami

            “nutjobs”

            That’s the problem right there; dismissing the actions of HUGE numbers of NON-INSANE people by calling them “nutjobs”. The problem is that they are NOT “insane”. What mental issues do you think they have? Are they schizophrenic? Antisocial personality disorder? What’s your diagnosis, doctor?

            Unfortunately, they are not anymore insane than the average human primate. Catholic missionaries who tell people in Africa suffering from an AIDS epidemic not to use condoms aren’t “insane”, either. To pretend that all these people are “insane” or “nutjobs” is to ignore the actual problem. They aren’t insane, but they are convinced that the words of certain men are an authority which is equal to truth, REGARDLESS of what the facts show or what reason tells them. They’re not dangerous PEOPLE, they have a dangerous IDEOLOGY. Ideology is not a person, and it does not deserve respect.

            • HookesLaw

              There are not huge numbers – That was the point of what I said. And amongst people who poll UKIP there are few nutjobs. Who but a nutjob however would want to campaign against the EU but vote to let in Europhile Labour?

              Likewise there are not huge numbers of Islamic nutjobs.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …but you socialist Camerluvvies are feverishly supplying and helping those islamofascist numbers in Libya and Syria, as we well know, eh laddie.

                • HookesLaw

                  Everyone is a socialist to you who does not parade around in a white bed sheet carrying a fiery cross.
                  How is the Grand Wizard?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  What are you blathering about now, lad?

                • HookesLaw

                  Stop pretending Mr Hoot.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …can another of you socialist nutters translate this nutter’s gibberish?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You have to be really lacking awareness to come out with something as stupid as that that in this thread with the picture at the top. You keep fighting the wrong enemies.

              • Alexsandr
            • telemachus

              Excellent points
              My only point of departure wound be to extend your comment that the African Catholics May not be insane but are fundamentally evil and have been responsible for many more even more cruel deaths than the Caliph

              • Colonel Mustard

                Here in a single chilling sentence is the accommodation of socialism with extremist Islam. Catholics, telemachus writes, are “fundamentally evil” so the murderous acts of the followers of “the Caliph” are to be relegated in a relativist pecking order of infamy .

                • telemachus

                  I had the advantage of being brought up in Lancashire where the Catholic Irish were regarded in relation to their invasion to steal jobs in the potato famine
                  On the back of that we were taught from our Mother’s knee about the barbarity of the Spanish Inquisition
                  The Caliphate is as nothing compared to that

                • Alexsandr

                  the spanish Inquisition is old history. people wanting to achieve a worldwide islamic caliphate by violent means is a real threat in 2014.

                • telemachus

                  That is where you are wrong
                  There are a few in pockets mainly of Arab countries
                  Mainstream Muslims regard them with as much approbation as do we
                  *
                  The difference is that mainstream Muslims do not go hurtling in like Crusader Bush to waken them from their Torpor

                • Alexsandr

                  do you have any independent evidence for that assertion? Have you looked at the pewglobal site I linked earlier?

                • Cyril Sneer

                  You wouldn’t want to associate a religion with the murderous actions of significant number of its followers yet you associate an entire political party with racism due to the actions of a small number of its members, whilst conveniently forgetting the racist actions of a number of members from your own political party.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  “On the back of that we were taught from our Mother’s knee about the barbarity of the Spanish Inquisition”

                  What a load of old Walter Mitty cobblers. And since you have neither experienced the Spanish Inquisition nor the Caliphate you are in no position to judge, not even with that enormously pompous ego of yours.

                • Erictheowl

                  I was brought up in Lancashire as well, but seem to have missed all that, you fantasist Muppet.

                • telemachus

                  If you were brought up in any of the cotton towns you would know what we meant about folks from Ireland, Catholics etc

                • Cyril Sneer

                  Verbal diarrhea.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Most ‘Islamophobes’ are not racist, they’re just allergic to a violent, oppressive ideology that is at odds with western culture.

            You don’t hear these so called racists having a go at Sikhs because they have brown skin and are over here.

            And the small matter of being demographically out numbered in the future and the potential for violent conflict doesn’t help much either.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        If these islamofascist nutters have nothing to offer, as you (hypocritically) say here, then why do you Camerluvvie nutters fall all over yourselves to help them in Libya and Syria?

        What a bizarre collection of incompetents you socialists are.

        • southerner

          He won’t answer that though he has had a full day to do it. He’s run out of cut and paste quotes from CCHQ so cannot actually engage in a debate beyond the first couple of outbursts.

    • Rick Roberts

      You can look at religious fundamentalist nutjobs right here in the gool ol’ US of A.

      • monty61

        Right here?

      • telemachus

        Most of the fundamentalist nutjobs I know we’re radicalised on an alpha course

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