Coffee House

The Pope and ‘paedophile cardinals’: another clue that Francis is at war with the Vatican

18 July 2014

5:46 PM

18 July 2014

5:46 PM

Today’s front-page splash in The Catholic Herald reads: ‘Vatican in a spin as Pope Francis grants an explosive new interview’. That interview, with La Repubblica, quoted Francis as saying that his advisors had told him that two per cent of clergy were paedophiles – including ‘bishops and cardinals’. The Independent ran with the headline: ‘Pope Francis: “One in 50” Catholic priests, bishops and cardinals is a paedophile’.

What fascinates me is the reaction of the Vatican Press Office, which has gone into full L/Cpl Jones ‘Don’t Panic!’ mode. Fr Federico Lombardi, the Pope’s hapless press officer, has been pointing out that La Repubblica’s interviewer, Eugenio Scalfari, (a) didn’t use a tape recorder, (b) didn’t take notes but relied on his memory and (c) is 90 years old.

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All of which is true. But it was also true last September, when Francis gave an earlier interview to Scalfari – an atheist, incidentally – under exactly the same conditions. That produced lurid headlines: Francis supposedly called the Vatican court ‘the leprosy of the papacy’, and poor Lombardi had to run around saying, hang on, there were no notes, Scalfari is ancient, etc.

So why did Francis go back to Scalfari? I reckon the uncheckability of the quotes suits him fine. He can express his views that the Vatican is crawling with fawning backstabbers and that sexual perverts are over-represented among the clergy right up to the level of cardinal – yet leave himself diplomatic legroom by allowing for the possibility that he’s been misquoted. He is a Jesuit, after all. So is Lombardi, but it’s obvious who is being more Jesuitical here.

The background to this is the Pope’s war on the Vatican. I think he hates the place. And it’s interesting that he’s placed enormous power in the hands of Cardinal George Pell, who is also full of contempt for its greedy placemen. My guess is that the reforms, when they come, will be savage.

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Show comments
  • Ralberta

    Certainly, the question has to be asked why Pope Francis would do yet another interview with Scalfari. It’s astounding really. But the speculation by Thompson may be the most plausible.

  • fredx2

    Well. If we are going to endlessly speculate in a blue sky fashion, I suppose anything is possible. And that is the subject of this piece – Damian Thompson imagines that the Pope hates the place. Let’s all run around imagining things. Gee, the Pope sure smiles a lot for a guy that is miserable, doesn’t he?

    He is upset because of what is a tiny, tiny incident. Not even a blip on the radar screen of history or of the church for that matter – the fact that the Pope chooses to go to the ends of the earth to talk things over with atheists. And perhaps convert them. And perhaps get a communist from way back to start liking the church. Big Deal. So he let Scalfari dupe him again. That’s what press agents are for, to say “No, the Pope did not say X”.

    The hysterical blogosphere, which subsists on controversy, will rage about the horror of the Pope having to deny something. The media hates the church, we know that. The over the top time where everyone was saying Francis was the best Pope ever was stupid, and this backlash is stupid.

  • haywardsward

    Here Downunder Pell as Cardinal and chief prelate in Australia was responsible for the cover up of the behaviour of pedophile priests and brothers ac

  • Harold Eselsbrecher

    Roman Cath Church says the Pope is the successor of Peter whom Christ is said to have called the “rock” on which His church would be built. Problem: Christ did not speak Greek, nor did the Apostles. Yet the play on words “Petros” and “petras” is only a play on Greek words, and these are the words supposedly Christ is quoted as having said in making Peter the rock on which His Church would be built. WWhole thing sounds like a pile of dung, if you ask a learned scholar of Greek and Hebrew. But don’t tell the RC folks. They’ve been pulling this crap for seventeen hundred years, give or take. No wonder it’s in the cesspool of filth it now finds itself increasingly sinking into .

    • Thomas

      If you do your research, Jesus also called Peter – CEPHAS which means rock in Aramaic.. As far as I know , in Jesus’ time ,naming someone as a rock was unheard of.. Also, a little bit of further research will throw light on the significance of name changing done by the our Judeo Christian GOD. eg Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel.

      • Ralberta

        Exactly—Jesus did not speek Greek, but Aramaic. He said, “you are CEPHAS and on this CEPHAS I will build my church.” There is no play on words. Peter is the rock upon which Christ builds his Church. 267 popes later, we see that Jesus is not a liar.

  • John Christenson

    The good Holy Father may be a Jesuit but he is very much a Franciscan at heart. And in that same spirit that guided St. Francis of Asissi, the Holy Spirit, Pope Francis is not at war with the Vatican at all but with the corruption that has went on far too long. If he is at war with anyone it are those who involved in such corruption over the years. He’s house cleaning plain and simple. Pray for him that he may be strengthened in his conviction to do the work of Our Lord Jesus.

  • callingallcomets

    Oh dear – Damian has found a little niche at the Speccie. What’s the betting that his extremely odd mate with a beard (the one who thundered in the DT about Richard III needing to have his reinterment supervised by an RC priest) plus Cristina Odone will be appearing as well and transforming this organ into another version of the DT, a Roman agitprop sheet. Please we need a brave soul to nail a protest on the Speccie’s front door..

  • Kr Smith

    Read Malachi Martin’s last novel “Windswept House,” it explains the inner workings of the Vatican… Martin knew firsthand what he was revealing.

  • Basil Damukaitis

    I do not buy for a moment Uncle Frank’s “humility” Observing him and listening to him, he seems like a very proud, obstinate, willful, and vengeful man. Why? I recall as a Benedictine novice, the novice master saying that the first sign of humility and obedience is following the rules. The fact that from the start, he didn’t wear proper attire isn’t important in and of itself, but rather what it implies, that he had no interest in following rules or protocol at least for a while. He loves to tear down the clergy by talking about how awful they are in his daily homilies etc… He doesn’t “build-up” at all. Through his phone calls (which all seem to have a common theme….we know there are rules, but do what you want, or “you’re the exception”) he feels he can simply tell people they are a derogation from the law. He gives public example of this on Holy Thursday when he washes the feet of inappropriate individuals according to liturgical law. It is true, he is the supreme legislator, however he should change the law, then do it. He gives the example to priests and bishops that the deposit of faith is now up to individual persons, not the church, and law is meant to be broken. Now that he is pope, there are some things you can no longer say, even off the cuff, or at least in a public, or semi-public arena.

    I recall a great quote by the late Francis Cardinal Spellman of New York when describing the then “new pope” Pope (St.) John XXIII (whom I like….no comparison)
    “he’s no pope, he should be selling bananas!”

    • Freedom62

      You’re right. Also, true humility consists of thinking more of others and less of self. It has nothing to do with planned public humiliations with a dozen flashbulbs going off so the world will think you are humble. I’m referring to the Holy Thursday washing of the feet where he not only broke canon law, but dared to upstage Jesus Himself by going one step further and kissing their feet. That is beyond pathetic!

    • LaurenceBoyce

      “He gives public example of this on Holy Thursday when he washes the feet of inappropriate individuals according to liturgical law.”

      Inappropriate individuals???

      You really haven’t got the memo, have you?

      • Basil Damukaitis

        YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND CATHOLICISM, DO YOU?
        You didn’t even read what I wrote, moron! Yes, liturgically, they are INAPPROPRIATE! Liturgical law is clear as to who are candidates for the “mandatum”. If the pope wants to do this, he should first change the law, then do it. We are a society and religion of laws, because laws express the practical application of our theology/ecclesiology. Laws protect the Church from well…people like Francis, and protect the rights of individuals and peoples and communities. So crawl back to the 1960’s with other failed ideologies.

  • Maria Magdalena

    There are, have always been, paedophile cardinals, bishops, and priests. You can always spot them by their lack of poverty, modesty, and humility. Watch what they prefer to wear, where and how they prefer to live, what they prefer to eat… You can always tell. The Vatican, afterall, is infiltrated by the Devil. (http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/chief-exorcist-rev-gabriele-amorth-devil-vatican/story?id=10073040 ) But they are digging their own graves by working for and with the devil, the Big Loser. The Lord has already won the War against Satan and the Heavenly Army of Jesus Christ far outnumber the little pathetic demons.

    Fear not! Praise Jesus!!!

    • Thomas

      Matthew 7:3

      “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?”

  • Maria Magdalena

    There are, have always been, paedophile cardinals, bishops, and priests. You can always spot them by their lack of poverty, modesty, and humility. Watch what they prefer to wear, where and how they prefer to live, what they prefer to eat… You can always tell. The Vatican, afterall, is infiltrated by the Devil. (http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/chief-exorcist-rev-gabriele-amorth-devil-vatican/story?id=10073040 ) But they are digging their own graves by working for and with the devil, the Big Loser. The Lord has already won the War against Satan and the Heavenly Army of Jesus Christ far outnumber the little pathetic demons.
    Fear not! Praise Jesus!!!

  • Jerry Gaddi

    Pope Francis is doing a good job in shaking up the Vatican, he must defrock and excommunicate all paedophile priests, bishops and cardinals too if he must, because these priests, bishops and cardinals have no place in the Vatican.

  • hockeydog

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upW7SHAjSEA

    Game.
    Set.
    Match!
    Your turn! 🙂

  • hockeydog

    I stand corrected young man!
    I was too busy laughing!
    My bad!
    Thank you for the correction kind sir!

  • hockeydog
  • Damaris Tighe

    Comments to this blog should be closed to rabid americans.

    • hockeydog

      Adolph Hitler agrees with you!

      • Damaris Tighe

        It’s Adolf. A common American mistake.

        • red2black

          Do you mean Aydolf? (tee hee)

  • hockeydog

    Valuable safety information for humanity:

    http://popecrimes.blogspot.com

  • corvus corax

    Pedophilia is not and never has been a problem in the Church. What has been a problem is sexual abuse of adolescent males by homosexual priests. Why can’t people keep this straight?

    • hockeydog

      WOW!!!
      Bartender!
      I’ll have what he’s having!
      I too want to be totally detached! 🙂

  • Peatbogjeff

    The Immaculate Heart of Mary will triumph. We had this promise at Fatima in 1917, and 100,000 people were there to see the miracle of the sun, and feel this prophecy. Pope Francis is the pope of the third secret of Fatima, and will die the death of a martyr in Israel. locutions.org

    • John Byde

      Can you tell me what part of the bible that comes from?

    • jan Pile

      Your first comment is correct but Pope Benedict is the last true Pope and the Pope in the Third secret of Fatima. He is now the Bishop in white the 3 children saw and will be martyred when he stands up for the truth, which Francis is eroding by the hour. Francis is the False Prophet, and together with the Antichrist, who has yet to reveal himself, and with whom Francis will form an alliance, he will be thrown into the lake of fire when Our Lord comes again, which will be soon.

      • Peatbogjeff

        No. A different Marian reading is possible.

        Pope Benedict announced his retirement on the feast of Our Lady of Lourdes; Francis becomes pope on 3-13-2013, and you appear to know how important the number 13 is; Francis then goes straight to a Marian shrine, and quickly asks the bishops in Portugal to commit his papacy to Our Lady of Fatima on May 13th of last year…by October 13th, he has consecrated the world to Her.

        Check locutions.org, and stay away from that Maria of Divine Mercy crap…she has been declared a fraud and a heretic by the Church.

        • jan Pile

          Sorry, I have tried to read locutions.org but they just don’t make sense – in fact they nearly did my head in – they are just crazy and all over the place. They have much less credibility than Maria Divine Mercy, whom many Theologians, including Dr Kelly Bowring have studied and declared her writings are in conformity with Church teaching and Biblically correct. She has not been declared a fraud and a heretic – how can this be since no official investigation has ever been made, a prerequisite for any such condemnation? Her Bishop made a pretty lame statement, probably under pressure since he wasn’t even sure she was in his diocese (note he said who “may” be in his diocese), but then so did the Bishop of Mostar regarding Medjugorje and even Saint Faustina’s writings were banned by Bishops and the Vatican for 20 years. It is hard to find a genuine visionary who did receive the Church’s blessing immediately, because the world does not want to hear the Truth.

  • James Lewis

    As Damian Thompson pointed out above “He can express his views that the Vatican is crawling with fawning backstabbers and that sexual perverts are over-represented among the clergy right up to the level of cardinal – yet leave himself diplomatic legroom by allowing for the possibility that he’s been misquoted.” Diplomatic legroom? Is this something to be joyful over?
    Pope Francis has the media-savy and political cunning to rival the best pr operatives.

    Here’s are two web pages related to the marketing genius of Pope Francis:

    http://thewildvoice.org/pope-francis-media-sensation-celebrity/

    http://thewildvoice.org/pope-francis-marketing-machine/

  • hockeydog

    It is a WONDERFUL thing to see the beginning of the end of the catholic church!
    I didn’t think I would be lucky enough too see it in my lifetime, but here it is!
    Like a big zeppelin, on fire, descending on a very steep angle, with Cardinals, Archbishops, and Priests, jumping from the ship, with their dresses on fire.
    Good riddance to global, criminal organization!
    Just think how many future lives will be saved w/o their dogma!

    • MirthaTidville

      But what if you are wrong?..you are going to be disappointed arent you

    • Freedom62

      No less than the soon to be beatified Pope Paul VI, agrees with you.

      “The tail of the devil is functioning in the disintegration of the Catholic World. The darkness of Satan has entered and spread throughout the Catholic Church even to its summit. Apostasy, the loss of the faith, is spreading throughout the world and into the highest levels within the Church”. – Pope Paul VI, October 13, 1977, in an address on the sixtieth anniversary of the Fatima apparitions

      “The Church finds herself in an hour of anxiety, a disturbed period of self-criticism, or what would even better be called self-destruction”. – Pope Paul VI, December 7, 1968, Address to the Lombard Seminary at Rome

  • Garry Otton

    If you think this vile organisation couldn’t get any lower, read this…. http://scottishsecularsociety.com/how-low-can-the-catholic-church-go/

  • saffrin

    The Catholic church, the most evil, murderous, duplicitous, criminal organisations the world has ever known.
    Directly responsible for more deaths than Attila the Hun.
    When will they be outlawed?

    • DJR

      The Catholic Church is presently outlawed in a huge portion of the globe and has been outlawed historically in many places. Where have you been? A British person calling the Catholic Church the most evil and murderous organization the world has ever known? You can’t be serious. Tell that one to the Irish, Native American, Africans, Indians, et cetera. When will Britain and its people be outlawed?

      • RobertC

        It’s almost been eliminated in the Middle East, so those still remaining there will be living in paradise.

    • MirthaTidville

      Oh do stop feeding your prejudices…where exactly is your evidence v Attila…no thought not

      • Sanity_Inspector

        Mirtha, I notice you haven’t responded to my reply to yours replying to Drabble re theodicy. I would be interested (no, honestly) in your response.

  • Radford_NG

    Neither the Bishop of Rome nor any of the recent Arch-Druids of England in Canterbury have given the Christian Message;which,from memory,is:

    “Suffer the little children to come unto me.” And He took one of them upon His knee and said:”It is better for a man to tie a mill-stone around his neck and throw himself into a pond then that he should harm one of these little ones.”

  • David Booth.

    “Nice euphemism. Isn’t child rape the expression you’re reaching for?”
    Err No!
    Child rape is a foul crime well covered in our penal code.
    Shennanagins are sexual proclivities which use to be covered by our penal code.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Wind/100002474174872 Michael Wind

    religion was created by man to control people.

  • Sygurd Jonfski

    No sinister and cunning Jesuit there but simply a man who has reached his level of incompetence (see Murphy’s Law).

    • GnosticBrian

      I think that you mean the “Peter principle”.

      • Sygurd Jonfski

        Actually you’re right, thank you.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    If this child rape scandal doesn’t sink Catholicism nothing will.

  • TRE

    The Vatican is far more powerful than the Pope. I’d bet 1 in 50 is generously low balling the scale of the curse within the Catholic Church.

  • David T

    At ninety I imagine Scalfari is hard at hearing. Pope probably said only 2% were heterosexual. Sounds more like it.

  • Terry Field

    I suspect it has been ever-present at a low level – as in the British public boarding school system until in recent decades. The change has come in the collapse of values and the acceptance of behaviours previously considered utterly unacceptable. Add to this heterosexual freedom after the ‘pill’ and the new world of do-what-you-like, and it has spilled into the church- Rome and Canterbury; some of these priests are plainly ‘lightly’ sexed as they cope with celibacy – or are gay – or do what they wish and cover for each other, as the institutions are plainly targets for sexually strange people to live in.
    The Catholic Church now imports African priests to its European parishes – one operates near my summer house in Normandy – and bellows in his jolly African way at the bemused Norman locals. Why? SImple.
    No European wants to be a celibate Roman Catholic priest – or at least bugger all do (oh dear, an unfortunate word, given the context of the conversation)
    PIE and the civil liberties lot were a catalyst in the social change. Many would say a social collapse.
    There it is.
    All changed; and generally putrid.
    Unless this Pope accepts sexual reality and imposes standards that will endure, and controls that will be effective, the Roman Catholic church will disappear.

    • pointlesswasteoftime

      “I suspect it has been ever-present at a low level’ vs “All changed; and generally putrid.” Which is it?

      • Terry Field

        Both as I have said – it started bad and has got much worse. Simple. Law change has – in my view – not helped. Social attitudes have also made things much worse.

    • Thomas

      Matthew 16:18 “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.”

      • Damaris Tighe

        Hope you’re – or rather Matthew is – right.

        • Thomas

          Psalm 89 35 Once for all I have sworn by my holiness;
          I will not lie to David.
          36 His line shall endure for ever,
          his throne as long as the sun before me.

          Numbers 23:19 “God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfil it?”

  • The Masked Marvel

    Well, they wanted someone from Latin America, the conservative Catholic Continent, in the hopes of pandering to the only really growing Catholic region left in the world. How’s that working out for you, chaps?

    Having said that, 2 percent seems rather low….

    • Lockstein13

      That’s what “Liberation Theology” gets you.
      *sigh’*

      • The Masked Marvel

        Indeed. This will server only to make the BBC love this Pope even more. It will be interesting, though, to see how he treads the line between accepting homosexual priests and attacking the alleged paedophiles in the Church, and whether or not the BBC will be forced to adjust their esteem for him. Peter Tatchell will be available for comment, no doubt.

        • pointlesswasteoftime

          What has paedophilia got to do with homosexuality?

          • GnosticBrian

            Choir boys provide the link.

            • pointlesswasteoftime

              That comment alone shows you know nothing about paedophilia. Who assaults underage girls then? Is that only lesbians?

              • GnosticBrian

                Do you claim that Priests assault young girls just as often as they assault young boys? Evidence?

                • pointlesswasteoftime

                  I’ve written two replies to you – but both have been held in moderation. I don’t know why. I hope you get to see them.

                • GnosticBrian

                  In the event that they fail moderation, I shall try to contain my disappointment.

                • pointlesswasteoftime

                  No need to be snarky. I’m just participating in the discussion. It’s a pity you appear so uninterested.

                • GnosticBrian

                  Let me rephrase my previous reply – I shall not be in the least concerned if I don’t get to read your contentious words. Have a nice day!

                • pointlesswasteoftime

                  How do you know they are contentious? I have only tried to speak from personal experience. I have no idea why they are awaiting moderation, but nobody is libelled and I don’t break any confidences – just present instances of when paedophilia is not related to homosexuality. Nice day to you too.

                • GnosticBrian

                  It is a fair assumption that the moderator(s) consider your remarks to be contentious – otherwise they would have been published. Following recent high profile libel actions involving allegations of paedophilia, newspapers may be excused if they err on the side of caution.

              • RobertC

                Google thighing for some answers.

          • The Masked Marvel

            In general, not much at all. But in this particular group, the vast majority of the victims were boys. Over 80%, apparently.

            http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/PriestAbuseScandal.htm

            Or didn’t you wonder why the media haven’t been including the gender statistics in their coverage? Surely if it were more balanced they’d take care to mention it just to ensure nobody started entertaining an unapproved thought.

    • Chris Ranmore

      The 2% figure is a public relations exercise. A study in Catholic Spain found:
      – 60% of priests had had sexual relations
      – 20% were involved in homosexual activities
      – 7% were sexually involved with minors
      From: “The Priesthood in Spain”, P. Rodriguez, 1995.

      • The Masked Marvel

        I was really being facetious in a quasi-Liddlian manner, but ‘minors’ doesn’t necessarily equal ‘young children’, contra the recent media screaming about Savile et al which tended to lump 15 and 16-year old girls in the same category. Of that latter 7%, what was the gender distribution?

      • Thomas

        8.33% of Jesus’ apostles were corrupt and treacherous!!!!!

  • Julie

    In his extraordinary three hour interview with Fr Antonio Spadaro for La Civilta Cattolica and the online journal Thinking Faith, Francis defines his first reform as
    ‘the attitude…people who can warm hearts…who know how to dialogue and to descend into their people’s night, into the dark-ness, but without getting lost. The people of God want pastors, not clergy acting like bureaucrats or government officials.’

  • swatnan

    ‘Is this War Your Holiness?’
    ‘No, its a d*mned Revolution’

  • Lockstein13

    This Pope can go to H*//.
    He is anti-West, anti-free market, anti-borders, pro-crime…just for starters.
    His work goes hand-in-hand with Obama and Satan.

    • MirthaTidville

      I`d change the medication if I were you

    • David Booth.

      Nurse! Lockstein is out of bed and wandered off his ward again.

    • Dr M

      oh, Lockstein… how blissful it would be to live in your naive world, where honest criticism is disloyalty. Where telling it like it is means treason.

      Sadly, though, the real world doesn’t work that way.

      What the pope said is the equivalent of saying the car’s engine is sputtering, let’s get it fixed before the car is ruined. You know, because he likes the car and wants it to keep running like it used to. To which you reply: “You’re anti-car! Vade retro!”

      Think about that when you wonder why people are making fun of you here.

      • Freedom62

        The situation in the Catholic Church is much more than “a car’s engine that is sputtering”. There is a reason why the soon to be beatified Pope Paul VI made the following statements:

        “The tail of the devil is functioning in the disintegration of the Catholic World. The darkness of Satan has entered and spread throughout the Catholic Church even to its summit. Apostasy, the loss of the faith, is spreading throughout the world and into the highest levels within the Church”. – Pope Paul VI, October 13, 1977, in an address on the sixtieth anniversary of the Fatima apparitions

        “The Church finds herself in an hour of anxiety, a disturbed period of
        self-criticism, or what would even better be called self-destruction”. – Pope Paul VI, December 7, 1968, Address to the Lombard Seminary at Rome

        Michael Brown of Spirit Daily testified to this in an article titled, “Occult Infiltrating Catholicism In Ways That Are Both Clandestine And Blatant”. You can read all about it here:

        http://www.spiritdaily.org/Prophecy-seers/Prophecy-seers/Spiritual-War-Angels/Wise_dont_go/occultinfiltration.htm

    • Freedom62

      His work and his bishops go hand-in-hand with Obama and Satan!

      The Catholic Church only speaks out against abortion and gay marriage to
      give them some credibility in the eyes of Catholics. Here are the facts:

      According to American Life League, a Catholic pro-life organization:

      “American Life League is just days away from publishing the latest report on groups receiving funding from the Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD). Without revealing too much of what ALL has discovered, it must be said that it is upsetting to find so many pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, pro-contraception, and Marxist organizations receiving funding from a project of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB).”

      http://www.all.org/article/index/id/MTExMTE/

      These are the same bishops who, just before Obama’s first election, said on their website that there was nothing wrong with voting for a pro-abortion candidate as long as they weren’t voting for him because he is pro-abortion. He won the election!

      Pope Francis himself referred to the late Cardinal Martini, as “someone who is very dear to me”, and “a father for the whole church”. Cardinal Martini, among other things, called legal abortion “positive”. No wonder Pope Francis told Catholics to stop obsessing about it. Pope Francis may issue a few statements condemning abortion in order to appease orthodox Catholics, but that doesn’t make him anymore pro-life than his bishops.

      http://spiritualityireland.org/blog/index.php/2012/09/the-spiritual-legacy-of-cardinal-carlo-martini/

      It was also discovered that the New York Archdiocese has been paying for the costs of birth control and abortion in some of it’s employee healthcare plans for years.

      http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/27/NY-Archdiocese-found-to-pay-for-contraceptives–abortions

  • Fergus Pickering

    Well he can destroy the Vatican if he wants. Quite right too.

    • MirthaTidville

      I think by the time he has finished thats exactly what he will have done…We should and must support him

  • Gizzard Puke

    As a lapsed agnostic C of E person I believe that the Roman church must sort itself out otherwise Christianity could well perish.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Pope Benedict, who abdicated, understood what’s at stake I think. Not sure Pope Francis cuts the mustard.

      • Lockstein13

        No, in no way does he. The Ultimate FAIL.

      • AndrewMelville

        Please explain.

        • Damaris Tighe

          At Regensburg Benedict indicated he understood that Islam is a ‘religion of the sword’. Francis is of the school that believes that it’s a ‘religion of peace’, He recently hosted an ecumenical event at the Vatican that included an imam. There was a group prayer-fest in which the imam said an unscripted prayer in Arabic calling for the conversion of all non-muslims to Islam. This was broadcast across the Arab world. The Vatican cut this bit out of their recording of the event.

          • AndrewMelville

            Thanks.
            I think you might be overestimating Bennie – after all he apologized for the Regensberg speech or at least waffled, did he not?

            And underestimating Frankie – he seems to have the mettle to do a bit of house cleaning and not immediately hostile to other traditions etc.

            I agree that Islam makes a better martial art than a proper religion. There is nothing peaceful about it as ISIS is demonstrating on the backs of the poor Christians in Mosul right now.

            • Damaris Tighe

              Bennie might have apologised publicly but I think he understood that Islam is a greater threat to Christendom (or what’s left of it) now than it’s been for several hundred years,

              As for Frankie, it’s one thing to be courteous & respectful to members of other religions; quite another to herd them all together in some false bonhomie. The imam simply used it as a platform to make a supremicist point.

              But the jury’s still out. As you say he may well clean house.

              • Basil Damukaitis

                Pope Benedict DID NOT APOLOGIZE FOR WHAT HE SAID! Please reread! He apologized for the misunderstanding!!!!

                • guesto3

                  Still felt the need to apologize though.

                • Basil Damukaitis

                  But it’s important to understand FOR WHAT HE APOLOGIZED. That’s why he is such a prolific pope and perhaps the greatest theologian we’ve ever had as pope. He apologized for a misunderstanding, he never apologized for what he said, which was simply, using religion as an excuse for violence is absurd, but any authentic tenets of a religion are based on natural law, and natural law dictates that we are not made, created to hurt each other or kill each other for any reason, much less for a religious reason.

                • AndrewMelville

                  Please explain, what are you saying he apologized for?

                • Basil Damukaitis

                  I just said it. Did you read what I wrote?? Don’t know how much more clear I can be!

                • john hickey

                  He said he was sorry that they had taken offence.

                • toTelltheTruth1123

                  It is a Catholic trait to apologize to another for the offence another took, even when what is said is correct and truth. It is biblical and said to be one of the highest forms of mercy.

                • Phil Steinacker

                  He was trying to halt the blood shed by the “religion of peace.”

                  One of the casualties was a religious sister in Pakistan, I believe, who was shot to death in the street.

              • guesto3

                But there are also pictures of the Imam there….which could have not very pleasant consequences for him as well among his own. The extremists don’t wish any of their precious ones to be within even walking distance of the infidels.

                Perhaps it’s a question again of seeing just whose prayers will be answered among the various reps of the various “gods”.!! It’s not unknown to scripture you know.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  The irony is that the whole thing was supposed to be a joint prayer for peace in the middle east!

            • lucas westwood

              Islam is a religion of peace. ISIS is a CIA trained group to help foment hatred of Muslims and keep the Arab countries in chaos, they hope, forever. 911 was done by the Mossad as well as Lockerbie and other false flags. And stop disrespecting the Vicars of Christ. Question Mr. Melville, are you a Freemason? Mr. Tighe?

              • Damaris Tighe

                You’re foaming at the mouth. You’d be surprised at what I am but, no, I’m not a freemason.

              • AndrewMelville

                I agree that ISIS is an extremist group and no typical of all Islam. But Islam is no religion of peace. It is aggressive and violent in its history, beliefs and practice. It is no slur on individuals Muslims to recognize the failings of the whole.

                No, I am not and never have been a Freemason.

                You are insane to believe such ridiculous conspiracy theories.

                Vicars of Christ? Who gives themselves such a pompous and silly title. I will refer to the Bishops of Rome how I please, likely with a little dig as I refer to all politicians. You’re not in the chapel now so stop telling your betters how to behave.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  I often think that many muslims (ie as individuals) are better than their religion. And of course, many are not. As you say it’s important to separate individuals from the ideology.

                • AndrewMelville

                  Well said

                • Basil Damukaitis

                  It is a legitimate title and makes sense theologically. HOWEVER, the way it is used is absurd. The pope is the bishop of Rome, successor of St. Peter etc… Every single Catholic bishop who is ordinary of a diocese is a “vicar of Christ”. The pope is the symbol of unity and those in unity with him are in unity with what Christ himself established, so it makes perfect sense to a Christian. But it is an overused title that leads people to make some very odd inferences.

                • AndrewMelville

                  My objection is that it is brandished by Roman Catholic bigots as if its use somehow supports their rude and unchristian (& wrong) claims of Roman Catholic superiority.

                • Basil Damukaitis

                  Andrew, I couldn’t agree more. Simply pronouncing someone’s title doesn’t work when having a substantive discussion. It’s one thing to have conviction of belief. I have found that people have claim superiority are often deep down, weak in their faith. Now, I do believe Catholicism is absolutely correct (but her members, including popes and priests most certainly are fallible, sinful human beings) but a better way would be to say that would be that we believe it embodies the fullness of truth and faith. (and why wouldn’t i? I’d be a fool to subscribe to Catholic tenets of faith and not believe it is the “fullness” of what we believe Christ revealed). But I hope that comes off as different, since it isn’t “I” who possess the “truth” but simply subscribe to it. I hope there is a difference. I hope that makes sense. But I can’t stand ANYONE, including Catholics who simply expect people to fall lockstep.

                • AndrewMelville

                  I appreciate your reply. Thanks.

                • toTelltheTruth1123

                  It is by example, when following in the Steps of Jesus Christ, and in union with the authentic magisterium of the Roman Catholic church, that grace falls upon the world and conversions occur. Words are so shallow and are rarely expressing what is fully meant, while being so easily misunderstood.

                • vdmt55

                  Very well said Basil.

                • fredx2

                  No, it is not brandished. Funny how people can find something offensive that is merely neutral. For example, the Orthodox Pope has his own titles, as do many other religions. But if you are seeking things to get upset about, feel free.

                • AndrewMelville

                  Check the context. Always a ton of rude snide remarks from our Roman friends.

                • toTelltheTruth1123

                  Not superiority, my friend, fullness. I apologize for the offense you feel, to a mostly unintended perceived tone of superiority. We just desire deeply to share Our Lord Jesus with others.

                  I say mostly, because some agents of Satan, Pelosi and others, do actively assert superiority as a catholic to turn people off of the saving graces and fullness of communion with all of the Angels and Saints in adoring the True Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ..

                • vdmt55

                  Amen, very well said.

                • AndrewMelville

                  I appreciate your reply.
                  I certainly support the Catholic Church – just not the Roman Catholic one, but I wish them well.

                • toTelltheTruth1123

                  The Church, like Christianity, is structured so the people who believe, believe and those who do not, will not. We win people for Christ by our actions and so does the church. This is why satan was and is keen to have his agents in the church.

                  I am a Catholic, but I will tell you there is a time coming soon when a man who is not elected will claim supremacy of the church and some bishops and cardinals will support him, while others will openly oppose. This will occur when Pope Francis is still alive, but the news will be proclaiming his death.
                  God Bless.

                  Words are nothing, actions everything.

                • vdmt55

                  I agree, you have been reading up on prophecy. I think things are very close.

                • vdmt55

                  Basil you are right on!! I agree with everything you have said.

                • guesto3

                  Islam is an ideology under the guise of a religion so to control its simple population.

                • AndrewMelville

                  I agree

                • vdmt55

                  Andrew you sound pompous yourself. Someday you will know that the Vicar of Christ is Jesus’s representative here on earth. I believe not in the too distant future. The way the world is going I think things are pretty close. The chastisement that the Blessed Virgin Mary has prophesied in many of her apparitions in the last three decades. Read Akita Japan. Everything she says we are leading up to. I first read about this in 1989, and things are escalating, she even has foretold things that have come to pass in Kibeho Africa for instance. That is now approved too.

                • AndrewMelville

                  I won’t comment on your shot at me.

                  I am sorry to hear that you seem to believe all sorts of nonsense about Mary, the mother of Jesus and his brothers, along with daft ideas about the Bishop of Rome.

                  In turn I hope that all Roman Catholics, including yourself, will learn to be more tolerant of others, and to celebrate Christian churches whatever their form.

              • Basil Damukaitis

                Why do you say Islam is a religion of peace? From where do you derive your conclusion?

                • toTelltheTruth1123

                  What I find incredible is that Islam, the religion of peace is violent to the point of ” Convert or Die” and Christianity is a self described Warrior religion where we are fighting against ” Principalities and Powers”, but we seek peace and conversion by example, rather than force.

                • Basil Damukaitis

                  I’m not sure where you get that Christianity is a warrior religion? What? Where did you read that? We don’t fight against Principalities and Powers. They are actually two of the 9 choirs of angels (archangels, angels, cherubim, seraphim, principalities, powers, virtues, thrones, and dominions). Have you ever EVER read, or even heard of Jesus and the Gospels? Christians wage war against sin, which is essentially, in terms of natural law, those actions or thoughts that go against the Law of God (as expressed in Divine Revelation), and hence, go against natural law, or that which is good for us, essentially the desire to self-destruct.

                  The difference is that in Islam there is a convert, die or be enslaved creed. That’s it! Also, man is a slave of God in the Koran, the relationship with God is based on fear. For the Christian it is always ALWAYS a choice. Though we are made for God, God respects our choice since it is based on love. And for love to exist, there must be the ability to chose.

                  Another crucial difference is that Mohammadans believe the Koran IS the word of God. Christians believe it is the Inspired Word of God. Therefore Scripture is open to study and interpretation, exegesis because it is inspired by God but written by man and is conditioned by his time and culture. This is not so with the Koran, since they believe every single word was whispered in to the ear of Mohammad. Therefore no interpretation is permitted, it is taken word for word, and in the original language, there can be no “official” translation.

                  You might want to do some more reading.

                • toTelltheTruth1123

                  Ephesians 6:12
                  For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against
                  principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this
                  darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places.

                  Please remember the demons who follow satan and satan himself were of the choirs of heaven, so my statement is valid. the bible quote is part of the Saint Michael’s prayer.
                  God Bless you.
                  We all should read our bible more. Thank you for reminding me.

                • Basil Damukaitis

                  Thank you for your kind reply. Please understand because Scripture is the “inspired Word of God” we have to read Scripture in context, in the manner, the way in which the author intended it to be read and understood. Exegetes, both Catholic, and Protestant all agree that the war waged is against the evil of this world. Paul was imprisoned several times all for preaching Christ Jesus. He never advocated a political overthrow, nor did Christ himself. But they advocated a loyalty to Christ first, over those powers of this world that would subvert the Church and peoples. So no, Christianity is most certainly not, in any way shape or form, a warring religion against any person, peoples or even political or governmental groups. This has never been a tenet of the Church or mission of Christ in her history, though there have been a few who attempted to make it out as such.

                • vdmt55

                  In prophecies that I have read given by blessed and saints, in the book by Yves Dupont, Catholic Prophecy, The Coming Chastisement, the Muslims would come into Europe and fight Christians there in these end times. They will be defeated by a King somewhere in Europe possibly France who would align himself with the Pope. His army would be small to start out, but would be victorious. Sort of like the battle of Lepanto where Christian forces were outnumbered by Turks but through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin, they won the battle. Prophecies also say that the Muslims will convert to Catholicism and all Protestants will return to the true church, the Catholic Church.

                • Phil Steinacker

                  Basil, he’s correct. I see he cites the letter to the Ephesians in which St. Paul says we fight against principalities and powers. You are correct that these are two of the nine choirs of angels, but you evidently have not yet learned that Satan – being a legalist – has preserved the hierarchal order of the 9 choirs among his own legions.

                  This explains why St. Paul makes his bold statement, to explain that we are in spiritual warfare with Satan and his demons.

                • Basil Damukaitis

                  His context is entirely INCORRECT.

                • fredx2

                  It is nonsense to say that Christianity is a warrior religion. Norse religions that said that you only went to Valhalla if you died in warfare is a warrior religion. Christianity is definitely not.

                • toTelltheTruth1123

                  Please explain to me why we have the Church militant, which is us, then.
                  God Bless.

              • Neil Ashley

                Tinfoil hatter alert.

              • toTelltheTruth1123

                If you look at the origin of Islam, it is a religion of Satan for the last days. They deny the triune God.
                That is enough to prove the previous statement.

              • Phil Steinacker

                Islam is a political movement bent on world conquest, as unlikely as that goal may seem to achieve, masquerading as a phony religion with a god. It is demonic – not divine – in nature.

            • fredx2

              And Benedict went to a mosque and prayed with an Imam. Which was a good thing.

          • rtj1211

            The vast majority of Muslims I’ve met in my life have been people of peace. Just because a small minority are violent madmen doesn’t change that. Christianity was a religion of violence for nearly 2 millennia after all. If you consider the USA to be a christian State, then it still is……..

            • Damaris Tighe

              There is a difference though. Christianity is a religion of peace perverted by many of its followers. They’re worse than their religion. Islam is a religion of the sword but many ‘muslims’ are peaceful despite their religion; they’re better than their religion.

            • fredx2

              Christianity was a religion of peace in a world that was extremely barbaric. At every point along the road, it lessened the barbarity and brought us to where we are today. I agree with you on Muslims – overwhelmingly great people, but since Mohammed was a military leader and conqueror, they will always have trouble with people trying to do the same.

          • guesto3

            Francis stands with the innocents of whatever distorted religious historical tradition in which they number or must just live under. You can’t protect the innocents if you give the thugs a reason to commit more atrocities esp. against your own within these regions. Jesuits understand human nature and the way evil plays it with its real results. The world isn’t just a big stage for intellectual debate….esp. these days.

          • vdmt55

            I have friends that are Muslims, but if our government suddenly became Shakira law, would they still be my friends?

      • Peatbogjeff

        You are mistaken. The world is in such trouble right now we need two Popes. Locutions.org

        • Damaris Tighe

          One in Avignon & one in Rome perhaps.

        • John Byde

          Or none.

          • guesto3

            Would go against promise made by God Himself.

          • Leon Bernotas

            Three is better than none!

        • Leon Bernotas

          yes!and maybe a 3rd. one.

      • J. Mason

        I agree

      • Basil Damukaitis

        I agree. We must get off this idea that “The Holy Spirit” choses the pope. NOOOOOPE! That’s not how it works. There are many popes who have been bad mistakes. I think Francis is one of them. Thankfully, we are not a religion of “a pope” but a religion which “has a pope”.

        • Damaris Tighe

          A good distinction, but all may turn out well in the end.

        • guesto3

          The man is chosen by the Holy Spirit for fulfillment of God’s will within this position. The person has free will…just as 1/12 of the high ranking among Christ’s first chosen and some would have judged another 1/12 as being weak and unfaithful at the time and yet chosen for the highest even while within such personal human frailty. But of course comment boxes are a substitute magisterium…esp. NOT chosen by the Spirit.

        • William Clark

          Nope – you are the religion which has ‘the’ Roman Pope – that is what defines Roman Catholicism. There is a Coptic Pope and one or two other venerable and ancient papacies,after all the word pope is from the Greek word for ‘father’ as in ‘priest’. You are now stuck with him for (his) life even though you had no say in appointing him, nor can you influence what he says, does or can do. Roman Catholicism is entirely defined by he whim of the current holder of the office of Pope. That was what the Reformation was about (it was not possible to influence the western Church to reform because the Pope said ‘no’, so it split) and nearly 500 years later you have not moved on. The way forward is for the Pope to become a constitutional leader guaranteeing (like the British Monarchy) fair play but not demanding obedience to his (or her!) own autocractic pronouncements. Long way off methinks, but that might be the Holy Spirit at work if it happened.

          • Basil Damukaitis

            Mr Clark, we have the ORIGINAL pope.
            The rest of your prattle is hogwash. It is clear you don’t understand Catholic ecclesiology or theology.
            Our ecclesiology/theology was founded on Christ’s Divine Revelation. Protestantism was founded on whim with no legitimate historical foundation or lineage, that is clear, particularly when you read Scripture and the Fathers of the Church. I recommend and education before popping of with absurd statements.

            • William Clark

              Oh yes I do. There was no ‘pope’ with the claims for authority you make now for several centuries and the ‘ecclesiology’ and ‘theology’ to which you refer were constructed shall we say with the benefit of hindsight. I would also recommend wider reading and could perhaps provide a reading list?

              • Basil Damukaitis

                Ummm….no, you don’t dear boy. So the papacy is the same as it has always been. Peoples attitudes towards it have occasionally tended toward ultramontanism (as it is today), but that has never changed the essence of the Petrine ministry. The theology of the bishop and the bishop of Rome (the pope) has been unchanged from the beginning. Councils do not create doctrine but clarify it. You’re reading list would be laughable and not worth my time. It would obviously be inaccurate. I don’t mind reading something that would contradict my belief or Catholic doctrine, but I don’t think you’d be up to the task of something authentically original and not the usual crap Protestants churn out when they think they understand the fullness of Christianity…(that’s Catholicism if you’re not paying attention). So, save it.

                • William Clark

                  You can be a Roman Catholic if you want but you can no longer fry me for not being one.

                • Phil Steinacker

                  You are behind the times. We no longer “fry” heretics, apostates, and heathens. We simply allow you to stew in your own juices. It works just as well but you don’t notice until it’s too late.

              • Eskimo man

                Read carefully Luke 10:16: This is for the protestants.
                Infallibility
                Matthew16:19: [19]
                And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou
                shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou
                shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
                (NOTE**- [19] Loose upon earth: The
                loosing the bands of temporal punishments due to sins, is called an indulgence;
                the power of which is here granted.)
                Matthew18:18: [18]
                Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in
                heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in
                heaven.
                Luke 10:16: [16] He
                that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he
                that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.
                John16:13: [13]
                But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth.
                For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he
                shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you.
                1Timothy 3:15: [15]
                But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself
                in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar
                and ground of the truth.
                (NOTE**-[15] The pillar and ground of the truth: Therefore
                the church of the living God can never uphold error, nor bring in corruptions,
                superstition, or idolatry.)

              • vdmt55

                The truth is that ALL the historical evidence is on the side of the Catholic position that Peter was the first pope. I suggest reading the book by Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism, the attack on “Romanism” by “Bible Christians.” and The Faith of the Early Fathers volume 1,2 and 3 by William A. Jurgens which by the way can be found in your local library. Excellent history books of the early Christian writings from the 1st century through the 7th century. And yes the Bible does not say anything about other works being important. It even supports it if you read (John 21:25) “There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written. ” 🙂

              • Phil Steinacker

                You are completely clueless. You must be getting your “knowledge” of Catholicism from sources which peddle nonsense and falsehoods. Your suggested reading list is undoubtedly not Catholic (unless it includes pseudo-Catholics who distort Church history to undermine Church teaching) but most likely originate from anti-Catholic outsiders who combine ignorant speculation with agenda-driven factoids.

                You haven’t said one thing yet which is true. You are looking awfully foolish.

            • William Clark

              Oh yes I do. There was no ‘pope’ with the claims for authority you make now for several centuries and the ‘ecclesiology’ and ‘theology’ to which you refer were constructed shall we say with the benefit of hindsight. I would also recommend wider reading and could perhaps provide a reading list?

            • vdmt55

              Jesus said that upon this rock I will build by Church not churches. History proves that Peter was the first Pope and Francis is his successor, unbroken down through the ages. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to guide the church INTO all truth (Jn 16:12). It is brought to an advancement within itself. On faith and morals no Pope has ever contradicted another Pope. The Pope has faults as we all do, can make remarks that hurt the church, can carry on in a way that is not worthy of Christian but through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, can never teach anything contrary on faith or morals. Martin Luther had a problem with lust and could not live up to his vocation as a priest. He took seven books out of the Bible and added words. This is now known as the King James Bible. He was a heretic and he himself said that by trying to do away with the Pope, he created hundreds of Popes. Denomination after denomination split because their interpretation of Scripture was different from the next man’s. When Martin Luther was on his death bed he was begging for a priest to hear his confession and give him the last rites, by the way which is in the book of James. ( James 5:14-15).”Is one of you sick? Let him send for the presbyters of the Church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the Lord’s name. Prayer offered in faith will restore the sick man, and the Lord will give him relief; IF HE IS GUILTY OF SINS, THEY WILL BE PARDONED.”

          • fredx2

            Nonsense. “Roman Catholicism is entirely defined by he whim of the current holder of the office of Pope.” No, the Pope is not able to do anything he wants. If he undercuts the deposit of the faith he was given, he will be considered out of bounds.
            I will have you note that many of those Protestant churches are in big trouble right now, while the Catholic church keeps growing. You don’t really understand the nature of the Papacy.
            There is a reason there are literally thousands of Protestant sects.

            • Basil Damukaitis

              Nicely said. The pope can certainly determine a direction or course, as every pope has, but you said it well, despite being the supreme legislator of the Church, he himself is bound by Scripture and Tradition, faith and morals that have been handed down. It si remarkable in itself that no pope has violated these very tenets despite some unsavory popes of the past. There was corruption, but never at the level of the universal faith handed down. Pretty amaizng I think!

        • standtall909

          You got it!! THANKFULLY, the Roman Catholic Religion can stand on its own. We can carry on no matter what he does.

    • Drabble

      If God is all-powerful (omnipotent), He could stop evil.
      If God is all-loving (omnibenevolent), He would stop evil if He could.
      Therefore, if an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God existed, evil would not.
      Evil exists; therefore, an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God does not.
      *
      It is high time that this paedophile cult did perish.

      • Lockstein13

        RUBBISH.
        It is for us humans to reject and oppose/conquer evil.

        That you do not comprehend this revealy your UTTER IGNORANCE of Christianity.

        • John Kinahan

          Thank you kindly. As a Christian I have always hoped that atheism would present a real intellectual challenge to faith; it almost never does. As an African (colonial) I have always wondered what the doomsayers would make of our churches bursting at the seams, the Roman Catholic Church in particular. Deo fidens persistas…

          • Julie

            I worked with Africans in Sub Sahara and the Italian priests were most effective working with them because they accepted them where they were at and worked in establishing the faith at their level…good case in point is province of Zambezia, where so many Catholic Africans retained their faith in the war between Frelimo and Renamo.

          • Jack

            Atheists, and agnostics like myself, know full well that religion remains a dominant force. If and when the final war comes and the bombs fly, it’ll surely be done in the name of one invisible sky wizard or another. Fingers crossed it’s Odin but eh seems unlikely.

            • lucas westwood

              Come on Jack, you’re not an idiot. The Soviets were like you, an ignorant Atheist, as well as the Chinese and they murdered more people ten times over than all the wars in history. Lord have Mercy on your wicked soul.

              • Damaris Tighe

                Not to mention the atheist Nazis.

                • red2black

                  Athiest Nazis? Then why did Waffen SS Divisions have Padres?

              • toTelltheTruth1123

                Actually, the Soviets were not atheists but Luciferians. There are document son this for those in the highest office of communism.

            • guesto3

              Would appear that the major conflicts have been in defense against the god-less….even with all of the numerous martyrs involved….even when there was just a remnant faithful left in the end.

            • fredx2

              Really? That seems simply odd. The last time were were at the point of nuclear exchange, I remember it was because of atheist communists who felt no problems with murdering 100 million people and sending millions more to the Gulag. Your statement is quite frankly, ridiculous. There is a book that compiles all the wars throughout history – there are about 1200 of them in the book, and only the tiniest percentage were religious wars.

              • Chi Rho

                The ‘Encyclopedia of Wars’ by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod states that only 7% of all Wars perpetrated by Humanity have had Religion as their primary Motive.

      • MirthaTidville

        You choose to ignore the obvious in your simplistic argument..God gives everyone their own mind. He doesnt therefore control everyone`s actions., especially those who say that he doesn`t exist.Therefore evil exists and will flourish. It is for good people to defeat the ends of evil, which is probably why we are given the choices we have in the first place

        • Sanity_Inspector

          That perhaps gets God off the hook as far as human folly goes- but not on respect of earthquakes, childhood cancer, genetic disease etc…. These at least he must either be in favour of or powerless to prevent.

          • lucas westwood

            Oh poor, poor, Mirtha, doesn’t understand Free Will. Angry at God? Learn to forgive, for many would be healed if only they were humble and forgave.

            • MirthaTidville

              what are you bumbling on about…you dont make any sense whatsoever…Please go back to the comics eh

          • guesto3

            He suffers with each and every one. It’s the flaws of nature itself…due, btw, to an original human decision through the big gift of free will. Since Christ was one of those victims Himself and demonstrated His ultimate conquering of suffering while showing its hopeful benefit for all, including the worst sinners, there is reason beyond understanding for all of the above.

      • David Booth.

        Read ‘Mere Christianity’ by CS Lewis,
        he covers all the points you have raised.

        • Drabble

          I know that work

          Like the Caliphs he states that there is no other correct religion

          But Lewis describes becoming Christian and “achieving everlasting life as next step in human evolution”. He does not expect any further biological evolution.

          So the evolutionary process proceeds apace without the need for hypothecation of God or a God.

          • lucas westwood

            D.N.A. has proven evolution’s a hoax. The fossil records defy the jackass Darwin as well as the eye. The eye could not have evolved. Those were Mr. D’s two biggest worries, fossils and the eye. Without morality there is no justice, just tyranny. Christian morality built Western Civilization. Read Sons of Thunder by Epperly on Amazon.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Unlike the Caliphs CSL didn’t advocate conversion by force.

          • guesto3

            It doesn’t will itself and yet still fits a greater pattern…by some admittedly omniscient power that keeps all in existence.

          • fredx2

            You don’t expect to be taken seriously with an icon of Lenin, do you?

      • Basil Damukaitis

        Over 80% of all paedophiles are married. So by your logic, most of the population should perish. Wow, you’re just a bloody idiot without a brain.

      • toTelltheTruth1123

        God is Love and in Love granted us free will. That is why evil exists, to test us. This life is not life in its fullness, but a test to where we desire to be when life actually begins.

      • fredx2

        Said the man whose icon is a picture of one of the biggest butchers of the twentieth century.

    • Conrad J. Noll

      “Christianity could well perish”. Now that’s a pleasant thought.

      • Damaris Tighe

        No it’s not a pleasant thought. Many of the values you probably hold dear came from Christianity, even if you don’t believe in the Christian God.

        • Chris Ranmore

          Name one value that didn’t exist beforehand. Most of Christianity was plagiarised from the Ancient Greeks.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Protecting the weak, the orphaned & the widowed were novel to pagan civilisation (but not to the Jewish prophets) & pivotal to modern European civilisation. These values are the basis of the welfare state, whether you want it to be big or minimal.

            • Chris Ranmore

              If they came from the Jewish prophets then your earlier claim that they “came from Christianity” was false. The usual “lying for Jesus”.

              • Damaris Tighe

                Thinking I was talking to an intelligent person I made it clear that Christianity, as originally an offshoot of Judaism, got these values from the Jewish prophets. It is one indivisable Judeo-Christian ethic & was novel to pre-Christian Europe.

                • Chris Ranmore

                  Questioning my intelligence when your own comments are incoherent, illogical and basically dishonest is highly ironic.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  What do you expect when you accuse me of ‘lying for Jesus’ when I’m simply trying to answer your question – with a courtesy that you didn’t offer me I might add.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Most of the metaphysics came from the ancient Greeks. The ethics were judeo-christian as I’ve explained in another reply.

          • fredx2

            The idea of loving all mankind was alien to the Ancient Greeks. They had no problems hating any tribe, race or city state that was perceived to be a threat.
            The idea of turning the other cheek. Justified Revenge was central idea to most religions before Christ.
            Please. You simply are not serious.

        • Conrad J. Noll

          So you say. I consider my values come from an innate sense of good exercised in an enlightened self-interest that considers the consequence of my actions on others. These values predate Christianity by a few tens of thousands of years.

          • Damaris Tighe

            I think that you consider the consequences of your actions on others comes from an ethic internalised for 2000 years in the west, that originated with the judeo-christian ethic, whether or not you believe in the judeo-christian god or indeed any god.

            • Conrad J. Noll

              I think you are wrong and I am one of many who think so.

          • fredx2

            You have been safely cocooned within a Christian civilization that has existed for hundreds of years and whose values are embedded in every law, every social custom, etc.
            If you really think that the higher order of civilization that was brought about by Christianity is the same as Greek, or any other ancient civilization, think again. Think about the Coliseum, the placement of defective babies on the mountainside, etc.

            • Conrad J. Noll

              I have felt smothered by what you describe as a cocoon. I am glad the influence of the Christian church and in particular the Roman Catholic Church is diminished in our culture.

    • Peatbogjeff

      The Catholic Church has survived war, attacks, all countries and kingdoms. The world needs it like never before, and it will save the world as the Church of Christ.

  • Terry Field

    This Pope knows that unless he rips this perversion from his highly questionable priesthood, the Roman Catholic Church will implode and have no future – the paedophile issue is routinely used by atheists to attach the Church as they cannot attack it so simply on grounds of belief.
    He has to deal with this.
    I do not see how it can be done without introducing married priests. Denial of sexual reality is unproductive.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Do you think it’s always been a problem of this dimension? Or do you think, as some claim, that it became a lot worse due to the permissive culture that started in the 1960s?

      • Fergus Pickering

        The second.

        • Alexsandr

          Nah. we just started talking about child abuse in the 80’s after esther ranzen and thats life! Before that it was swept under the carpet.

      • Dr M

        It probably hasn’t been this bad among priests, but before the ’60’s, children were housed in orphanages, boarding schools, sanitariums, and other institutions where pedophiles could (and as we learn more and more, did) run rampant.

    • Luke O’Sullivan

      This is a good article on the subject of Priestly celibacy. http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0014.html

    • David Booth.

      The Church Of England has married clergy so obviously has no problem with sexual shennanagins !!! oh oh, but there again.

      • Terry Field

        Yea, right!
        The Bible is clear about certain sexual perversions – the Church cannot uphold that without breaking laws.
        Dear oh dear.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Exactly. Marriage is clearly not the answer. Or, to put it another way, if marriage is not compulsory single priests might still get up to shenanigans.

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          “still get up to shenanigans”
          Nice euphemism. Isn’t child rape the expression you’re reaching for?

          • Damaris Tighe

            Not always rape, but I used the term in the post I was replying to, didn’t mean to minimise the hurt done to children.

    • Dr M

      People don’t become pedophiles because they can’t get adult lovin’. They’re simply sexually attracted to children. Whether they hide that with a spouse or not is inconsequential, as we see with the vast majority of known pedophiles.

      • Terry Field

        Do not patronise.
        The perversion is well understood.
        You point is what?

        • Dr M

          The point is that allowing priests to marry won’t make a dent the amount of pedophilia in the Church, any more than it does outside the Church.

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