Coffee House

The lower classes have serious – and justifiable – concerns about mass immigration

8 July 2014

7:08 PM

8 July 2014

7:08 PM

The light is at last beginning to dawn on the immigration debate. Today’s Migration Advisory Committee report on the impact of low-skilled migration to this country sheds a small amount of light on what has been blindingly obvious for a long time to people at the bottom.

In total there were almost three quarters of a million Eastern Europeans working here last year. The number of citizens from Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia living in this country grew from an estimated 167,000 in 2004 to just over one million in 2012.

Working- and lower middle-class voters have serious and justified concerns about the impact of this mass immigration on their lives and on our society. They are the ones bearing the costs of fierce competition for school places, pressure on maternity units, creaking transport services and longer waiting lists for housing. In London alone, where more than one million immigrants have arrived since 1997, there are over 350,000 households on local authority waiting lists.

[Alt-Text]


The Government would be wise to recognise these disproportionate local impacts of immigration on poorer communities. It should begin by, for example, making the allocation of social housing more transparent by requiring local authorities to collect and publish information on who is getting housing in their area and under what criteria.

We need radical proposals also to address the negative impact of mass immigration on the wages of the low paid. The MAC report describes employers’ attraction to a more ‘obedient source of low-wage labour’, and it sets out the downward pressure – and the lack of resistance to this – on wages at the bottom resulting from low-skilled immigration.

Each of the main political parties has outlined proposals to improve compliance and enforcement of the minimum wage. But none has been forthcoming with bolder action. We need political parties to commit themselves to a comprehensive low pay strategy which gives powers to the Low Pay Commission to immediately set higher minimum wages in sectors that can afford to pay without shedding jobs, and which obliges government departments and agencies to pay all directly employed, contracted and agency staff a Living Wage.

But while employers think they are able to get away with paying poverty wages, and they have such a vast pool of cheap labour to choose from, they will continue to do so.

I recently asked the Prime Minister to draw up a set of red and blue lines so that voters will know from where he is batting when it comes to the crucial negotiations with the European Union; a commitment to fully addressing the impact of mass immigration on the living standards of people at the bottom must be one of them.

Frank Field is the Labour MP for Birkenhead

Subscribe to The Spectator today for a quality of argument not found in any other publication. Get more Spectator for less – just £12 for 12 issues.


Show comments
  • grimm

    Class prejudice has a part in this discussion. The English middle and upper-middle class (from which our governing elite are drawn) have always been hostile to the working class who they secretly regard as ignorant, small minded, disrespectful, bigoted and brutish.

    As far as this dominant section of society are concerned the nation belongs to them and will shaped as they see fit. If the English working class are problematic and demanding then open the borders and let in more desperate and docile workers from overseas to undermine their position.

  • Leon Wolfeson

    Still promoting the myths which the conclusions debunk, I see.

    They have “concerns” about your anti-poor welfare strategy, which you fail to mention.

  • Ordinaryman

    I may stand corrected, but if immigrants come here for a better life, then why do so many insist on establishing a community replicating that which they left behind. Surely they must see that the fundamental reason for the apparently better life we have in this country is precisely because our society is not the same as that in their homeland.
    In my darker moments, it almost feels like some of them have come here to impose their lifestyle on us.

  • Gwangi

    How on earth did we get into a situation where 250000+ east European gypsies come to the UK. How exactly do they enrich our diverse society? They should go back to eastern Europe or be sent back by force. Not welcome here.

    EU law is a nonsense because the benefits and services in all EU countries are not equal. So of course so many gravitate to the UK where they get free housing (if they have kids), free healthcare benefits galore, where locals do not get priority for jobs (as they very much do in Spain, France, Italy etc because those countries ignore EU laws eher it suits them), and where we have a huge organised pro-mass-immigration lobby in the race relations and diversity industry here lecturing us about how we are apparently so enriched when immigrants come here and push us out of jobs, raise the costs of our housing, create problems in schools and hospitals, and generally lower the standard of living of so many (though not the upper-middle classes with houses in London which have increased in value by 18% in the last year and who now can get cheaper servants to pamper them…)

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Suspect we`re approaching common cause time when just about everyone has an issue with Authority. After which it becomes “Let her rip” time.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    It crosses my mind, a fleeting journey some might say, that one reason for UK being an attractive destination for third-world Muslims is that (as yet) Britain has no Holocaust denial laws. Unlike most of Europe in addition to Australia and Canada. So I suggest you owe the Muslims a muted vote of thanks for preventing European style thought crime legislation from being enacted in Britain.
    Jack, Japan Alps

    • Thor Odinsen

      BS! ….Europe is rife moslem-rats though they have thought crime laws….which btw UK also has!

  • Bonkim

    This is of legitimate concern – Adam Smith’s invisible hand did not reckon with high speed travel and migration of people across the globe – the earth is overpopulated and if the floodgates are opened it won’t be decades but months before the poor and destitute of the world will descend to grab all the lower skilled/lower paid jobs.

  • Jacques Strap

    UKIP

  • pobinr

    The British people voted in 1975 for what was sold to them in distorted & biased form with two leaflets in favour & one against, as a ‘Common Market’.

    They did not vote for a federal Europe where we become a mere borderless state in the unelected EU commissioner’s empire getting flooded with immigrants driving wages down making slumlords & employers who pay low wages richer whilst adding to the housing shortage, road congestion, NHS queues etc

    In a television broadcast to mark Britain’s entry in January 1973, Prime Minister Edward Heath said:
    “There are some in this country who fear that in going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified”.

    This was treachery & betrayal that continues to this day.

    Who benefits from cheap imported labour?
    Slumlords & low wage payers.
    So how can people call UKIP ‘right wing’ when they are opposed to this ?

    EU = Corporatist’s dream brought to you courtesy of the left.

    More & more centralised control & a desire to impose political union on the people of Europe without their consent.

    How the EU is dismantling democracy in Europe;

    The unelected crooks & recycled Communists running the EU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWSYMpuCFaQ

    Remote control by the EU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtQt2IjeLVc

    EU new Soviet Union ?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Vjc_PeYtc

    The EU is the New Communism. It is Power without Limits
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RjUJy7kDOM

    We’re now run by Big Banks,Big Business &Big Bureaucrats

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=750uBYcabKI

    Nigel Farage of UKIP Confronts the EU Commissioners
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJHETdxwv8Y

    If you value your country, freedom & democracy then

    VOTE UKIP

  • pobinr

    Lower classes. I think ‘working class’ is a nicer term.

    Email to Iain McNicol Labour MP

    Here’s why I’ll be voting UKIP

    Labour have betrayed the working class people of this country.

    LABOUR NOW STANDS FOR – “CHEAP EAST EUROPEAN LABOUR”

    Labour – Anti referendum, pro EU and pro immigration.
    Result = Mass immigration of cheap labour driving down wages, taking jobs, taking homes, making more traffic congestion and making slumlords & low wage payers richer.
    But that’s the opposite of Socialism isn’t it?
    Labour the party for people that don’t believe in Labour principles!

    I can only assume the people that think mass immigration is wonderful are fortunate enough to live in areas that haven’t been flooded in the last 5 years with East Europeans. I live in Shirley, Southampton.

    Last week I rang to make a doctors appointment. I got ‘Sorry not possible today.’
    Never used to be like that. I resent this kind of thing.
    And why shouldn’t I be able to resent such things without being called a racist?
    I resent housing shortages. I resent the social housing queue now being 8+ years in Southampton. I resent more traffic congestion, More noise, more pollution.

    Even immigrants are tired of immigration
    Asians no longer send their children to the local school St Marks in Southampton, because they want their children to learn English rather than Polish, Romanian, Hungarian etc!
    They have classes where only 4 children are English!
    My friend wouldn’t send his child there. He paid for her to go to St Winifreds private school instead and he’s half Polish!
    His father came here from Poland in the 60’s!

    Every other name on Southampton Maternity unit cots is East European.

    Locals can’t get their kids into their nearest school.
    Even if they can it’s full of kids that can’t speak English properly.
    The General hospital has had to ask for more funding for the hepatobiliary liver service due to Vodka usage by our friends from the East.

    I was speaking to Pole the other day at 11am.
    I asked him how come you’re not at work?
    He replied he ‘Couldn’t get any more chef work here’
    I said will you be going back to Poland then?
    He replied ‘No I steel beetar off here’ !
    On the dole !

    Friends of mine have troublesome anti social Polish neighbours on benefits that are about to be evicted for non payment of rent. So whilst many Poles might be hard working, we’re also importing a lot of dross, as if we don’t already have enough of our own!

    Under EU dictat XYZ retired East Europeans that have been here a year are entitled to their £120 a month pension topped up to around £500 a month UK pension paid for by us. We pay NI for 40 years to get a UK pension. They pay for 0 years!

    My mother ln law’s in a rest home. Some staff are East European. She’s hard of hearing & can’t understand their poor English.

    I was chatting to a Hungarian girl recently who served me in Pizzaexpress. A charming girl. I asked her what has the EU done for her and her country?
    She replied – ‘It’s given her the opportunity to leave’
    I said would she ever go back to Hungary. She replied ‘No’
    So countries less densely populated than here to start with are losing their youth & people of working age.
    Their demographic screwed & ours!

    I bought a 2 flat that had had 6 Lithuanians living in.
    The new working class living like this with almost no overheads so undercutting wages for locals & driving down living standards for people with mortgages to pay & making slumlords & min wage employers richer.
    EU = Capitalist’s wet dream brought to you courtesy of the left.

    Because these people are squashed into flats with no gardens in numbers the flats weren’t designed to take, Southampton Common becomes their garden in summer. Drunken Poles on Lidls Vodka having BBQ’s burning the grass. Feeling like I’m not in England any more in the common I grew up playing in. It makes me sick.
    People I know have anti social unemployed Poles next to them. So whilst many Poles might be hard working, we’re also importing a lot of dross, as if we don’t already have enough of our own!

    Unsurprisingly immigrants on low wages contribute less into the system than they are entitled to receive from it > http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/1.38

    So why do Labour support open borders?
    Becuase they are funded by big business like JML who donated £1.6M in shares to Labour to keep the flow of cheap labour coming in!
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10102190/Donor-John-Millss-gift-to-Labour-avoided-tax-bill-of-1.5m.html

    How the EU is destroying our democracy > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJHETdxwv8Y

    Yours sincerely

    • Damaris Tighe

      sheer madness, I feel for you

    • Advocatus_Diaboli_69

      A sorry tale. Reminds me of this article in the DT about Acton.

      ‘I feel like a stranger where I live’
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9831912/I-feel-like-a-stranger-where-I-live.html

      • Gwangi

        Great article. Full of truth.
        I remember the Thamesmead Estate in south-east London – when I was at grammar school in Kent, some boys in my class lived there; it was an almost-all white working class council estate which looked imposingly ominous and a bit scary (no idea if it was or whether the flats were nice inside!)
        Now they call that estate Little Africa because almost all people living there in council flats are African.
        How the F did this invasion happen? Who allowed it? Shouldn’t we hang them? Or maybe just send them to Zimbabwe to let Sir Robert take care of em?

  • Robertus Maximus

    It’s all far too late Frank. Politicians, and in particular your former leader Tony Blair, have done for this country with their policies. My God how they loathe the white British. Their warped mentality should see most of them sectioned under the Mental Health Act.

  • jargee

    I will vote for ANY party other than the three lunatics responsible for flooding this ancient country with unwanted foreigners who we now cannot get out and back to their own God Given lands !

  • rtj1211

    Here are a few things I would go into bat for:

    1. Removal of ‘free movement of peoples’ when the economic reality prevents the least prosperous in one member state migrating in a cost-effective and economically beneficial way to the nation states where the greatest number of inward migrants are coming from.

    What this basically says is that UK employers should not be subsidising house purchases back home in Romania and Bulgaria (which may cost no more than £10,000 in some places) whilst destroying the chances of bringing up a family in modest dwellings for the British working class.

    2. Imposing maximum limits on net inward migration per annum to the net levels of increase in house building and associated infrastructure in this country.

    This is obvious, because it takes 3hrs to fly from Bucharest to Luton (or wherever) but it takes up to 3 years to secure planning permission and build new homes. The two acts are not temporally compatible, are they??

    3. Removal from the Treaty of Rome of the inevitable move toward ‘ever closer Union’, replacing it with ‘a move, by those member states who deem it desirable, to consider moves in that direction, at all times being backed by the will of the peoples of their member states, and without prejudice to the trading rights of member states who do not consider it desirable’.

    This will provide a road-map for creating a two-tier Europe, namely those in a Free Trade Area Association situation and the rest in a federated superstate. Clearly, if the numbers wishing to be federated becomes small, the concept may wither away without trace, without war and without financial crises.

    4. Removal of the right of EU migrants to the UK to vote in UK General Elections or in Referenda concerning the EU, until they have lived in the country for a minimum of 8 years.

    5. A fundamental realignment of the roles of the European Commission and the European Parliament, thereby removing the sole right for legislation framing residing with the Commission and introducing the right for elected MEPs to introduce legislation, much as Private Members’ Bills are provided for in the UK Parliament. Furthermore, a commitment to complete realignment, turning the EC into a Civil Service and the European Parliament being the primary legislative body of the EU.

    6. A fundamental realignment of EU policy making structures away from multinational interests toward the wider economic ecosystem, with those framing legislation obliged to spend at least 75% of their time, when taking soundings, in the presence of non-multinational representatives, agents or the like.

    7. A separation of political and economic law-making, thereby rendering Free Trade Affiliate countries free from requirements to join a pan-european Army structure, a pan-European Foreign Office or being bound irrevocably into the Euro through a european Central Bank.

    This should leave the possibility of affiliate nations joining in certain projects with core Euro-land if it is in the interests of all parties so to do.

    I am sure there are far more things which could be discussed and the finer details and wordings of what I have said may be neither perfect, nor legally appropriate.

    But I’m not a European legal expert, I’m not the Foreign Secretary, I am a member of Joe Public saying what some of things he thinks should be reformed in Europe are.

    That’s not a crime, is it??

    • the viceroy’s gin

      How about ignoring your glorious 7 point plan for socialist paradise, that me and everybody else didn’t read, and simply dumping the EU and putting a proper immigration policy in place?

      Nice and simple, and taking care of the many tens of millions at home.

  • Ordinaryman

    This might sound too simple, but surely something could be put in place whereby once a country reaches a certain agreed population density there should be no obligation on that country to take in more immigrants?

  • GraveDave

    The MAC report describes employers’ attraction to a more ‘obedient source of low-wage labour’,

    Says it all. I knew it all along though.

  • wudyermucuss

    Concerns?
    CON bloody CERNS?
    It’s not concerns mate,it’s bleeding seething anger.
    And it’s not particularly at the effects on employment.
    It’s quite simply that I CAN’T STAND RARELY HEARING OR SEEING ENGLISH
    If I wanted to live in a bloody foreign country I WOULD BLOODY WELL MOVE.

    • Cyril Sneer

      Amen, I feel the same and have felt this way for years now. I’m still desperate for a labour canvasser to knock on my door, lab or lib dem I don’t mind just so I can vent at them…. then release the hounds.

    • roger

      Well said

    • Kugelschreiber

      wudyermucuss

      You should be grateful! Usually Labour (my old party) just offer us things like:

      “WE MUST TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION” or “WE MUST GET THE PUBLIC USED TO IMMIGRATION”

      and that sort of blocked-ears talk

  • Benbecula

    For a decade now the government and media have been branding those pointing out these facts, as racist. My own company is probably typical. A decade ago the lower skilled jobs were filled by local people on permanent contracts on a salary of around £21k, Today these jobs are filled by European workers on temporary contract at £14k.

  • John_Page

    Of course this is an inevitable outcome of free movement of labour when we are one of the richer EU countries.

    People will be drawn to the richer countries and the greater competition resulting there will tend to a levelling down.

    Any measures will be sticking plaster while the borders are porous.

  • Jambo25

    About a year or so ago I watched and listened to a very interesting interview with Professor Karel Williams of Manchester Business School. it was about why unemployment rates had remained stubbornly high in certain parts of the UK even during relatively good times, economically. He made the point that, in the pre-war period, ‘declining’ areas had been able to transfer their surplus workers to up and coming areas through mass, internal migration. A million or so people had left Wales during the 20s and 30s for the South East and Midlands of England. Now, a mixture of incredibly high housing costs in London and the South East plus the ease of attracting migrants from overseas had ended that possibility.
    Potential employers no longer had to help workers with moving costs or retraining to get them to move from Wales or Northern England: they simply needed to sign on migrants from much poorer part of the world who imposed no costs whatsoever. Essentially, immigration allowed private employers to dodge any social costs or consequences and to pass them all onto the state. That actually means the general public who pay taxes.

    • Damaris Tighe

      So we have the absurd situation of, on the one hand, a large unemployed, never-employed class, & on the other an incoming migration for jobs.

      • Jambo25

        Pretty much so. I’m not anti-immigration or anti-immigrant but there does seem to be a disconnect somewhere.

  • misomiso

    Only getting out of Freedom of movement will do.
    Dont let cameron get away with a false renegotiation Frank!

    Te eurosceptics must maneuver so a yes vote will mean getting out of freedom of movement. It is too dificult to win a no vote in the country.

  • Atticus

    Frank – you are the only Labour politician I have any time for, but you are not saying anything here. Enforcement of minimum wage? How? It’s pointless even suggesting such a weak ‘solution’.

    The bottom line is that we need better filtering of those wanting to work in the UK – i.e. normal immigration controls.

    I used to work as a hod carrier in County Durham. The brickies I worked with saw their pay crash by 50% within two years of the accession countries joining the EU. This was Labour’s ‘care’ for the working class, and I for one will never forget it.

  • Raddiy

    The reality is anybody living and working in the Labour areas with an interest in politics is acutely aware that the blame for the immigration debacle which has been supported by all parties is laid squarely at the door of the last Labour government.

    How the Labour hierarchy can ignore the feelings on the doorsteps is incredible, when the only thing stopping the mass desertion of the Labour core vote is the remaining tribal loyalty. Many like John Mann are acutely aware of the danger that Labour is in, but seem unable to drive the message home in what can only be described as an intellectual vacuum on the subject in the corridors of power in the Labour party.

    Labour may well win in 2015 on the muggins turn rota, but by 2020 on their current trajectory and position on immigration their core support will rapidly dissolve away. To overuse metaphors, all parties are playing stupid politics with immigration, they are all effectively playing Russian roulette with a bullet in every chamber. Labour especially have barely noticed the immigration express train coming down the track, they are so disconnected from reality that they have set up their picnic table on the track as the 9.30 express to Oblivion approaches.

  • Ian Walker

    Well done for discovering the law of supply and demand.

  • Mark McIntyre

    DOH ! …
    Regarding the headline – indeed they do.
    But…
    These are the very NUMPTIES who vote Liebore – the party that most likes / benefits from (X) immigrants – without even thinking about it !
    Liebore – in the name of the Peasants – in the hands of the Bourgeoisie !

  • Fraser Bailey

    ‘The lower classes’. What a despicable term, suggesting that people who don’t earn much, or who aren’t particularly ambitious or pushy, are of ‘lower’ worth. A term which suggests that money is everything (of course, in modern Britain and a fiat money system, money really is everything). My experience is that the more money people have, the less pleasant and useful they tend to be – especially in our economy, which rewards the useless and/or destructive while punishing the useful and productive.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Have to agree. I thought it a despicable term too. But the obsession with class perseveres, now defined by money and status.

  • global city

    Rowena Davies inadvertently put her finger on a major problem last night. She did not understand WHY we are where we are with regards to firms not providing proper training and career development, etc, but she did highlight how few do this…but!

    Like with crappy secondary modern schools this can be laid at the door of socialist governments. Manpower Services was supposed to be the industrial section of adult education, taking over the areas of apprentices and workplace development. This was under the mad notion that the State should control all aspects of education, ‘from cradle to grave’.

    Firms now do not give proper training so many of them cannot offer decent career paths, so ‘ready made’ people are required at each step.

    This is an area the demands proper investigation…and sorting out.

    • Kugelschreiber

      globalcity

      As an interested and involved parent, it is my strong opinion that education has hugely IMPROVED over past decades.

      I have found that those who say otherwise usually have not even been NEAR a school for years and actually have no idea about the contents of the National Curriculum etc. ie, utterly ignorant of the matters on which they have such a strongly expressed opinion

      I am not just saying this…….I no longer support the Labour party due to their stance on mass immigration. I now support a small, left-wing, anti-immigration party

      • global city

        Yes, but a quarter of children leave our comprehensive system functionally illiterate. Do you remember manpower Services? That was the organisation that was supposed to determine and provide all of the requirements needed in the industry that was centrally controlled from Whitehall. When the crypto-soviet failed we were left with it’s vestiges, but nothing to replace it.

        in the bad old days industry used to pay for their own business needs, especially with regards apprenticeships. We also had the likes of the WEA providing education for poor workers…. all hollowed out in our post war managed economy utopia.

        and then we have the schools, the ones to which the poorest go to the most affected by lunatic memes of the ‘educationalists’….. or as Gove correctly terms the collective, ‘the blob’!

        I hope that your small left wing party is more rooted in the Methodist tradition of ‘Labour’ than the bizarre and utterly irrelevant international theory?

        • Kugelschreiber

          globalcity

          Before I attempt to consider your argument, I would need you to show me the definite, statistical PROOF that “1/4 of our comprehensive pupils lead school functionally illiterate” ?

          Do you have a link for this please?

          • global city

            Wow….only 17%….we should be proud as a nation!

            here’s some evidence from those at the chalkface!

            http://www.teachingtimes.com/articles/school-leavers-functionally-illiterate.htm

            • Kugelschreiber

              GlobalCity

              Firstly, this is only ONE survey…..to be sure, we need other surveys to confirm its findings.

              Secondly, there have ALWAYS been people who’ve had difficulty with reading and numbers, I can remember such people being around when I was at school back in the 60s.

              Never confuse information with knowledge, but doubtless you will insist on coming to conclusions that fit in with your own preconceptions.

              THE most significant change in influences on school children over the past decades is the fact that they do not READ at home as much as they used to.

              This is because of all the OTHER entertainment forms available to them nowadays such as tv, dvds.

              This is NOTHING to do with the EDUCATION system.

              With my own children, I as a parent did not allow them to even LOOK at a television before the age of 3, and even then, their viewing was limited and structured by me.

              They both as a result became ardent readers and book lovers, one of them going to university to study English.

              This is not the ONLY influence on school children of today that may affect results.

              For example, the increasing numbers of pupils in our schools that have English as a SECOND LANGUAGE will affect results

              For example, the MASS MEDIA, eg, the trashy tabloids, ENCOURAGE parents to be empty-headed, silly morons , ENCOURAGE young people to be obsessed with SEXUALITY resulting in increasing numbers of YOUNG MOTHERS who often are uninterested in their children’s education.

              NOTHING to do with the EDUCATION SYSTEM in our schools, which is 2nd to none, especially with the brilliant guidance and support of the divine NATIONAL CURRICULUM..

              Do you have any idea WHATSOEVER of the substance and nature of the NATIONAL CURRICULUM?

              I doubt it very much.

              • global city

                Tsk! It seems like you are saying that schooling is almost incidental!

                I home educated my youngest so had to undertake a vast amount of relevant research. I did this extremely successfully and he is now off to university.

              • global city

                Really!

                What more do you want? Check out my original claim. I remember reading about it a couple of times, but when I went to google for it I came across that one…by teachers.

                Although those things you list have an influence, by far the biggest are crap teachers and the loony educational memes that take hold of the establishment every now and then.

  • Lady Magdalene

    The headline should say

    “UKIP was right all along.”

    Mr Field proposes the usual gamit of State Intervention to correct some of the wrongs done to the lower classes.

    The solution, however, is obvious. Stop mass, uncontrolled, unskilled immigration.

    That means leaving the EU.

    Once again. UKIP was right all along.

    • Denis_Cooper

      Spot on.

  • Andy

    Of course what Frank Field doesn’t say is that mass immigration was a deliberate policy of the Fascist Labour Party to stuff the right and punish the white working class who had dared to vote for Lady Thatcher. Normally I have sometime for Frank Field, but this article is just rank hypocrisy. You voted for it Frank so it is a bit rich now to whinge about it. You are as guilty as the rest of ’em.

    • Lady Magdalene

      The Treasury (under Gordon Brown) also wanted mass immigration to suppress wages whilst The Moron went on his debt-fuelled spending spree.
      Dr John Reid admitted this …. available on YouTube.
      The policy was deliberate. Labour set out to shaft it own core vote.

    • Wessex Man

      It wasn’t just the Facist Labour Party, they have been out of power for four years now and immigration to this country hasn’y gone down at all, the only democratic way out of this farce is to vote UKIp.

    • Kugelschreiber

      Andy

      What’s Thatcher got to do with it? I detest Thatcher and I also detest mass immigration.

  • swatnan

    Its true. I was talking to a chap in the pub the other day. who had lived and worked on the other side of the River all his life. Convincing him of the benefits of immigration was pointless. I stopped after he was clearly getting frustrated and emotional. His mind was closed. He just couldn’t see that the world itself is changing and people are on the move everywhere and we rely on immigration for decent services and a wdecent life. These people are simple being left behind, becausde thery can’t keep up, such is the change. He just couldn’t understand that if you stopped immigration the standard of living of the ordinary man would fall by about one half, and so would the quality of his life.

    • MrsDBliss

      Or maybe you couldn’t understand him? You sound incredibly patronising lecturing him on the benefits

    • Denis_Cooper

      “He just couldn’t understand that if you stopped immigration the standard of living of the ordinary working man or woman would fall by about one half, and so would the quality of their life.”

      Prove it.

      • allymax bruce

        Quite the reverse has been ‘proven’!

    • Cyril Sneer

      It’s not about stopping immigration, why can’t people like you understand this, it’s about controlling immigration and rejecting senseless mass open borders immigration.

  • Donafugata

    Keeping wages down, below the minimum, wasn’t that the idea?

    What this report means is that there is an election coming and it’s time for politicians to admit to what the rest of us have known for 15 years.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Britisher pals, you’re keeping the right people out and letting the wrong ones in. And I think we all know who the dodgy ones are.

    • GraveDave

      We need more hard working Japs, Jack.
      .

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        But what we don`t need are racist bigots like you Dave, that are so stupid and so insensitive that they actually put racial slurs in print.

        • George Smiley

          Calm down, Japp!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Shut it, China boy.

            • George Smiley

              I am not a Chinese. You are more of a China man than I am! Have you choked on your Chinese noodles?!

  • dado_trunking

    Why bother give the plebs an article?
    The headline and a meaningless yet appropriate image will do, thanks.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …and a few of your many sockpuppets, and we’re set, eh laddie?

  • shaft120

    While Frank sgould be smiled at patronisingly for recognising the problem – which is more than the rest of his party has, given that they caused it – he has none the less searched for the solution in his 1970’s socialist satchel, and pulled out the ”Tell the problem to stop being a problem” card.

    Seriously, does nobody look at emperical evidence any more? We have decades of data showing that price controls and central diktats on anything like wages or rent will not only fail in their intended aim, but instead have hugely damaging consequences. We should not forgive thinking like this or excuse it by rolling out the old tired cliche, that Frank’s such a nice chap and well meaning. Intentions be damned when the fall out of unintended consequences is so damaging.

    By making public or private sector companies pay a high ‘living’ wage, all you will end up doing is making it easier for big companies and conglomerates to price smaller competition out of business. No doubt all of the major players will be signing up to this doozy of a policy. “We’ll pay a living wage! In fact, lets make it mandatory. Small price to pay to ensure no other start ups , who could never possibly afford the staff cost overheads, ever trouble us as competition.”

  • Conway

    You don’t say, Frank! All we ‘racist xenophobes’ (TM) were right after all, then?

  • Kugelschreiber

    Re the comment below who criticises people who regard coffee shop jobs “beneath their dignity” etc.

    People are not animals, you are wrong to speak of them as if their only worth was their capacity to be efficient working beasts.

    May I point out by the way that the LibLabCon politicians’ insistence on flooding this country with foreigners has DESTROYED something in the psyche of the PEOPLE, it has destroyed much of the former sense of obligation and responsibility they used to have towards society BECAUSE of the way the politicians in turn have shown NO sense of OBLIGATION towards US, instead they have flooded our country with an excess of foreigners.

    Finally, people like you and many politicians and right wing newspapers, cynically & in a most evil fashion, FRIGHTEN people out of properly DISCUSSING the vital issue of AUTOMATION of FORMER JOBS PROCESSES & the need for a NEW SYSTEM of shorter working hours/full-time pay, distribution of wealth etc, by THREATENING us , THREATENING us with a CRUEL INVASION of FOREIGNERS if we don’t keep our mouths shut and act like the mindless, souless, rootless, LANDLESS working beasts that they want us to be..

    Only under a strong ANTI IMMIGRATION government could the issues I have described even BEGIN to be considered & tackled properly, in my opinion

    I voted Labour for over 35 years but I’d better not tell you who I’ve supported for the past 2 or 3 years as I don’t want to be banned from this site if I can help it

    • HookesLaw

      Automation of former job processes…?
      You mean like the internet and the invention of email and word processors and laptop computers? Shouldn’t industry and commerce take advantaes of that? Shouldn’t workers and individuals change with the times?
      Something tells me you do not know what you nare talking about.
      Have you been to a car factory and seen the robots and all the mechanical help given to assembly workers? Its not automation that is the enemy it is the way we were slow to take advantage of it.
      Thousands of new jobs have been created in Merseyside for example thanks to the abilities of an Indian owned British car company to invest in automation. Why did this not happen under British ownership? Possibly because of ignorant and parochial attitudes like yours.

      • Kugelschreiber

        HookesLaw

        You are not listening properly. I did not say that AUTOMATION itself was the “enemy”. Automation itself would be a good thing if the politicians allowed it to do what it SHOULD and bring us all the gift and blessing of more leisure and family time and freedom from spending too many hours of our precious lives in depressing, mind-numbing tasks.

        • shaft120

          The gift of leisure and family time is for the individual to attain, not for the government to dish out through regulations which strangle competitive business trying to compete in a free market or worse, a closed market from abroad with protectionist leanings. Automation was never going to deliver the worker extra time off or pay, only the owners of the technology enjoy that return and rightly so as they have paid for it. The individual worker can enjoy his own technology and the benefits it gives him, because he has paid for it. Your dishwasher, your microwave, your vacuum cleaner, your car, your PC. These things give you back your leisure time because they are yours. You seem to think you should benefit from other peoples tools? Why?

          • Kugelschreiber

            shaft120

            You speak of the “rights of ownership” with regards to the distribution of the benefits of automation .

            While I do believe in respecting private property of others and a structured, civilised society in which we respect one another etc…….

            Your point about the “rights of ownership” begs the question “IS THAT WHY CAMERON’S GOVT IS FLOGGING OFF ALL OUR NATIONAL ASSETS THAT ARE NOT NAILED DOWN?”

            To stop the BRITISH people as a WHOLE from benefitting from the gifts brought by AUTOMATION of many former jobs processes?

            Because you see, Cameron’s FLOGGING OFF will transfer the MEANS OF PRODUCTION (many automated processes) FROM the ordinary people TOO a handful of RICH, IDLE people who will OWN them, as you mentioned.

          • GraveDave

            Quite right. We’re actually very lucky we’re no longer working fourteen hour days for a lump of bread and a bit of bone soup.
            Tell ’em shaft. They don’t know they’re born.

    • Cyril Sneer

      “I voted Labour for over 35 years but I’d better not tell you who I’ve
      supported for the past 2 or 3 years as I don’t want to be banned from
      this site if I can help it”

      Lib Dems?

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Nick’s fun-loving boys at the BNP?

        • George Smiley

          Why some Japanese from Japan like you is so interested in British politics, when you will never be eligible to vote?

  • HookesLaw

    The people who work on the production line in Cowley and at Elsemere Port or Hailwood are not being paid poverty wages. They are producing quality products and earning billions in exports.
    But when these people go to a coffee shop or stay at an hotel they find that it is beneath the dignity of a British worker to serve them.
    Labour, Mr Field’s Labour, chose to ignore transitional arrangements in 2004 so it could massage its own economic statistics… growth and inflation. It made Britain the only country that anyone in the accession zone could travel to and so they did. Labour chose to accept these people and turn its back on its own employment and education problem, it shrugged its shoulders at the problem of the low educated and aspirational British workers work ethic. proper transitional arrangements would have protected British jobs – in so far that the British were interested in taking them.

    It is not immigrants we should worry about – not from the EU anyway – we get good service from well motivated workers at a good price. We should worry about the abilities of the people who are not interested in work and who no employer would want. why have they not been taking the jobs that were there.
    As it is this government seeks to cut immigration, it has closed the student loophole that Labour ignored, it has introduced benefit reforms. As a result 9 out of 10 new jobs have gone to UK workers. The tories want to renegotiate employment rules and give us a referendum at the end of it
    Sadly all Mr Field trolls out is low pay commissionsm or minimum wages and ways of ensuring that potential Labour voters get paid more. he is not sayong much about making British workers more competitive in their abilities and attitudes.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Why is it you think you can draw some contrast with this guy? He’s a socialist, and so are you. If anything, you are to the Left of this guy, lad.

    • Wessex Man

      Are you a relative of David Cameron?

      • Cyril Sneer

        And which afterbirth would that be?

    • GraveDave

      And this was a party political broadcast for the ……
      9/10 jobs my ars e.

    • Jacques Strap

      propaganda broadcast alert….you really are a pillock.

  • Hugh1

    Nice analysis but joke solutions.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    It’s amusing how these LibLabCon muppets are all scrambling to cover their flanks, because the nothing party UKIP, which is nothing as we are repeatedly informed, in all their nothingness is compelling the LibLabCon muppets to drastically alter their positions (or at least their rhetoric, as surely no one believes a word any of them say on these matters).

    Let’s see if any of this helps them.

  • suzy61

    I have long admired Frank Field, a man true to his beliefs which have, on occasion, lost him his position. If only his integrity was typical of our political masters. He represents a party I long since gave up on but he commands respect and I consider his opinions accordingly. He is again absolutely correct in his assessment of the damage that mass immigration has caused the working classes and he would do well to have a word in the ear of the current, useless idiot of the Labour Party…Chuka Umunna.

    • Conway

      I used to admire Frank Field until he came up with the idea of making pensioners who’ve paid in all their lives pay more to access the NHS. He thought we hadn’t paid our “fair whack”. It’s the ones who haven’t paid anything that need to be charged.

      • Damaris Tighe

        The idea that if you don’t pay into the system you don’t get anything out of it is anathema to our rulers

  • Kitty MLB

    Oh I wonder what caused this Damascus moment. a sight moment whilst the
    labour party somnambulistically into oblivion.
    Well yes excessive immigration is an issue for working class ( is that what you mean
    by lower class) people. All those coming here are hardly going to live in comfortable
    Conservative suburbs, countryside and villages.
    These people will all tend to live together and generally in Northern labour cities,
    taking up jobs, houses and becoming a strain on our public services.
    Thank you most kindly for noticing.

  • RavenRandom

    Of course mass immigration causes upset. If you want to know why wages have been slow to recover, well a million extra immigrant workers might just be to blame. No racism required, simple supply and demand.

    • Kitty MLB

      Well said. And these millions of immigrant workers, the majority of which went
      after the same jobs as the working classes and therefore creating that insulting
      and soulless word ‘ underclass’ those of which were labours core voters.

      • Donafugata

        Quite.

        If migrants work for less than the minimum they will be claiming the whole gamut of benefits as top-up while causing English workers to be out of work and claiming too.

        The economics don’t make any sense, never mind the social costs and problems with importing alien cultures.

        • allymax bruce

          At last somebody ‘gets it’ !

    • Damaris Tighe

      This country is being run like a business corporation rather than a nation. Thus our leaders want cheap labour & don’t care where it comes from – they are simply units of labour. They have no conception of putting the interests of the nation first because they think like business managers.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Spot on.

        • Damaris Tighe

          ha ha, I was doing well last night wasn’t I!

          • Colonel Mustard

            All agreed and I share your concerns about “corporate” Britain. The rise of the bean counters has resulted in the bottom line being supreme and incessant “marketing” even where there is no competition as in local government services.

            I like the cut of your jib. Please stick around.

            • Damaris Tighe

              Another example is the police, which has been changed from a ‘force’ (semi-military model) to a ‘service’ (business model). The book ‘Wasting More Police Time’ is full of examples of business-speak in the senior ranks: ‘core business areas’, ‘deliver more for less’, ‘customers’. You can be sure that when any state institution starts calling us ‘customers’, it’s lost its way. Which is of course true of the Police ‘Service’.

              • allymax bruce

                same examples being used in Public Welfare Institutions; ‘service provider’, ‘service user’.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  All very impersonal corporate-speak. Totally de-humanising.

      • Cyril Sneer

        Indeed and the so called advantages we hear about mass immigration only seem to be economic and not much else.

        I personally see no economic benefit, in fact I don’t see any benefit at all.

        • Damaris Tighe

          But even if there were economic benefits there would be other good, social & cultural reasons not to have mass immigration. Economics should not trump these other factors.

      • allymax bruce

        ‘our leaders’ take their orders from Bilderberg Group; at bi-annual meetings. Bilderberg remit is to protect their wealth accumulation, and destroy any other form of competition; we, the people, are ‘disposable’ & commoditised.

  • Smithersjones2013

    Even Field is turning into a mealy mouthed two faced manipulator!

    For goodness sake stop pissing about at the fringes of this issue. Over 5 million immigrants have entered this country in the past decade (with around 3 million emigrants leaving). We need to take control over our borders again. We need to close the Brussels black hole. We need to impose hard and fast quotas on all immigration and we need to stop giving away citizenship like it were sweeties!

    And if the EU don’t like it they can shove it where the sun don’t shine! Now stop pissing about!

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Be fair. This muppet and his mates are now swallowing their previous unfettered immigration position… a true disaster. He needs time to chew his words and swallow.

      I suggest a bit of pepper sauce for the lad. Sprinkle on liberally. It’ll help hide that bitter taste.

      • Kugelschreiber

        the viceroy’s gin

        If I remember right, I believe that Frank Field has always spoken out against mass immigration.

        Credit to him for this but then again, could he have not achieved more by joining/creating some kind of anti-immigration, left-wing party?

        Having said that, one understands that self-preservation is important, one has to think of oneself and one’s family, since that is everyone’s personal first responsibility.

        • Damaris Tighe

          Frank Field is Old Labour & can usually be relied on for sound good sense.

    • Donafugata

      Something drastic will need to be done very soon.

      The rate at which boat people are arriving on Malta, Scicily and Lampedusa is nothing short of an invasion. They have all twigged that it’s a safer bet to claim asylum than present as economic migrants but how can due process be given when every day bring thousands more?

      Wait until there is a mass break-out from the holding camps and thousands decide to chase out the Italians and occupy the homes of some quiet little town, as numbers increase and become impatient, something like this is bound to happen.

  • edward

    It’s not just the so called lower classes. Try and get a job in IT in london and you will be competing against the rest of the world, which all politicians ignore.

  • Bob339

    So it is only the lower classes? Why bother then? They cannot afford nannies, gardeners, housemaids, cheap labour, right? So we will just let them pay for the medication, education, incarceration, power, water, light, lawyers and so on ad infinitum for the immigrants that are taking their jobs, ruining their schools, making their streets unsafe and so on. Thank God we do not have to fret in our suburban palaces, eh?

    • Patricia

      “Thank God we do not have to fret in our suburban palaces, eh?”

      Spot on. For some time I have felt that we should follow the money when it comes to uncontrolled immigration and now we are beginning to see the true picture unfold. Working people’s jobs have been put out to tender for the sake of our rulers’ lavish lifestyles.

  • alabenn

    The number of citizens from Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia living in this country grew from an estimated 167,000 in 2004 to just over one million in 2012.
    That is probably manageable but not when combined with the millions of Third World uneducated alien cultures.
    Real EU immigrants will eventually go home or really integrate within a generation, hardly any of the others will, they will fetch their families making it infinitely worse with ethnic ghettoes all around the big towns and cities.

    • Bob339

      That is so untrue. Poles who came here by the hundred thousands in 1945 are still here. None went home.

      • alabenn

        In that case they would have actually put themselves in danger of death or prison by the Communist regime, after all Stalin had executed the officer class at Katyn, they would have suffered the same fate.
        I served with some of their descendants, as English as me in their outlook.
        Quite a few have gone back since the collapse of communism.

        • Damaris Tighe

          I remember visiting a Polish club in the 1970s – a huge picture of the Queen had pride of place.

          • Andy

            And you go to a Synagogue and you will hear prayers said for the Queen’s Majesty. You don’t get that down the local terrorist centre – I mean Mosque.

            • Damaris Tighe

              Indeed.

      • Conway

        I’m not sure it’s true that none went home, but yes, there are a lot of descendents of Poles who came here during the war. They have integrated and except for their names they are indistinguishable from the natives (at least in my town, where they run businesses).

  • anyfool

    It is not indigenous EU immigration that is the problem, the majority of immigration is from the Third World.
    The EU is tooling up their African and Asian immigrants with EU passports, hundreds of thousands of them then flood over to the UK for benefits and language reasons.
    That is the real problem, another EU scam that will be covered up.

    • Conway

      I understand Malta has been selling passports and some Eastern European (former Communist) nations have widened the eligibility criteria for passports to allow people from other countries to apply.

      • Patricia

        “I understand Malta has been selling passports and some Eastern European (former Communist) nations have widened the eligibility criteria for passports to allow people from other countries to apply.”

        Correct – we are an absolute laughing stock for our lax laws. Since when did we become a nation that rolls over when faced with a problem ?

        • Damaris Tighe

          It’s truly weird to see people who have power to change things, but don’t use it.

  • Blindsideflanker

    This was all blindingly clear to all, as such it begs the question what were the upper classes and Governing class up to when they went out of their way to trash the living conditions for a large section of the British people.

    The only way to correct this is to establish meaningful immigration controls , but with the Conservatives, Labour and Libdems wedded to free movement of people, the consequences of the policy they know about, have now be told about, but as we see they chose to do nothing about.

    • telemachus

      The UK is still able to attract highly educated and skilled immigrants. This positive trend has even continued throughout the last recession. This surprising feature distinguishes the UK sharply from other European and non-European countries. This ability to attract highly skilled immigrants – even from within the EEA, where no restrictions can be imposed – is a strong and important feature of the UK economy.

      You cannot stop the Field decried immigrants without turning away the top flight migrants that we need

      • Alexsandr

        yes you can. you have a points system like Oz. If they have a skill thats is in short supply they can come, otherwise, stay at home.

        • Blindsideflanker

          telemachus, the trolling voice of new Labour, feeble objection speaks volumes about their agenda. Now all we need is a contribution from Conservative central office in the form of Hookes Law , telling us why Cameron is right to defend free movement of people, and we see why the British working man has been so royally screwed, because the British establishment doesn’t give a fig for them.

        • telemachus

          Just how many years will it take to work out such a system, which just at present would be illegal under EU law

          • Blindsideflanker

            As long as the British political establishment want to string the whole process out by.

            And as for EU law , its only an insurmountable obstacle for those who wish it to be.

            If the mobs were burning them out of house and home on the issue, MP’s would have a workable system in operation by the end of the week. The only reason we suffer this selective incompetence and dithering is because a big enough boot hasn’t been planted on their backsides, and they currently prefer to look after their backers interests rather than the British people.

            • telemachus

              Truth is most MP’s are wedded to immigration and a multicultural England
              The vey thing that Field bleats about is in truth good for the economy as a whole

              • mohdanga

                Yes, let’s look at how multicultural China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, etc are….somehow their countries and economies aren’t suffering.

                • Apaliteno

                  Malaysia doesn’t belong on your list.

                • Guest

                  Japan’s been stagnant for decades.

                  What a lovely example.

                  China, and it’s pollution, etc.

                • andyrwebman

                  Because they don’t have a minimum wage

              • Colonel Mustard

                It won’t be when things start breaking, as they will. It is foolishness of the highest order to overpopulate this country when its infrastructure is already hopelessly inadequate.

                • telemachus

                  Doom doom doom
                  We are inventive
                  Provision of infrastructure by the evolving dynamic Britain is not really a problem

                • global city

                  But why? That just becomes an exercise for the exercises sake. Why do this, when you end up running simply to stand still?

                  Remember. If nulabour had not fetishised brown people and a world without borders idiocy then they could have achieved what EVERY socialist regime round the world has as priority number one. They could have achieved full employment.

                  Think about that one.

                • Guest

                  Tens, at best. But you’ll make up figures to suit yourself.

                  In fact, ISIL has caused widespread revulsion and is likely to change views against Islamism.

                • global city

                  Sorry mate, I do not understand what point you are trying to make, or how it is relevant to the employment issue that I raised in mine.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Strange that advocating a party that takes risk aversion to hysterical extremes you should be so dismissive of predictable evidence-based risk.

                  Provision of infrastructure has been a problem for at least 69 years and successive governments haven’t got it right yet. The success of the financial services industry and the various bubbles (including Brown’s) have led to a completely false premise of what will provide long term sustainability here. An assumption has been made that the importation of foreign people on a vast scale will somehow correct a budgetary imbalance and you seem to have bought into that mantra.

                  It represents the very worst of unjoined up thinking where every issue is treated as a separate entity requiring tailored soundbites. The doom doom doom is not something only existing in my disquiet but an emerging reality. There is no realistic or costed strategy for:-

                  Housing (competing with food provision)
                  Transport infrastructure (which is a dependency of of both housing and food provision)
                  Food provision (competing with housing)
                  Natural resources (the fracking debacle perfectly illustrates that)
                  Societal integration (currently there is ghettoisation, sectarianism and the strong possibility of home grown terrorism on a scale far greater than the IRA threat)
                  The provision of adequate health care especially for the elderly

                  In addition there is the ongoing suppurating sore of the EU which constrains national strategy whilst incapable of superceding it effectively.

                  And what we have is three main parties bickering over who said what on Twitter, poking their nose into what people eat for breakfast and determined to put right the wrongs of the past whatever the cost rather than to formulate a strategy in the nation’s best interests that can be supported and progressed rather than impeded and lied about.

                  As it stands the modern crop of politicians are part of the problem not the solution.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  That had to be the most vacuous, meaningless load of nonsense you have managed today. And that is saying something.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Yes we are inventive but the fascist Labour Party is not. It’s only ‘inventiveness’ is dreaming up new ways to steal, spend and waste the money of workers from the private sector. Anybody, for more of Brown!s PFI lunacy – I think not.

                • Wessex Man

                  Slimy liar

                • Guest

                  Yes you are, and?

                • will91

                  The “evolving” part you mention is a euphemism for wholesale cultural transformation. Errmmmmmmm no thanks.

                  For you multiculturalism is just about feeling warm and cushy about immigrants. If you and the political class love immigration so much why don’t you come and live in Dewsbury, Bradford or Rochdale.

                  Wait a second. Come to think of it. These places are getting less and less diverse…

                • will91

                  Furthermore, a really great example of a new “dynamic” Britain has been demonstrated in recent weeks by the fact that hundred’s, most likely thousands, of Muslim’s from our own population are outsourcing themselves to wage war in conflict zones around the world. Now in all honesty, that is actually quite dynamic, i’ll grant you that.

                • Guest

                  Stop smashing things!

              • global city

                the only alternative is to demonise today’s youth for being feckless wannabees, who will not take low grade jobs.

                This is a despicable fiction, a socialist fiction at that, used to blind-side legitimate criticism of mass migration policy. ‘P*ssing on your own’ may be another way of describing the situation

                • telemachus

                  Look at the big picture
                  The immigrants have revitalised the nation from the torpor of the 70’s

                • Damaris Tighe

                  No Thatcher’s policies revitalised the nation from the torpor of the 70s.

                • telemachus

                  I seem to remember the closure of UK manufacturing. I suppose you could say the engendered anger may have awoken the hackles of not a few

                • DWWolds

                  Actually more jobs in manufacturing were lost under NuLabour than under Margaret Thatcher. The contribution of manufacturing to GDP also declined more under NuLabour than under the previous Conservative Government. And can anyone with any sense argue that the kind of manufacturing we have in today’s motor manufacturing industry is not better than that we had under the union controlled days of British Leyland?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Unfortunately the Labour myths that prevail in the public narrative have never been successfully challenged, mainly I think because Labour are always attacking and the Tories are always on the defensive and having to capitulate to their narrative.

                • Fraser Bailey

                  Well, yes – Labour myths are disseminated by the ever-evil BBC and take hold in the minds of a population that has been rendered incapably of thought by our educational system. The inevitable consequence is bankruptcy and, potentially, worse. The population is slowly waking up to this but it’s far too little, far too late, not least because there are so few credible alternative political parties out there.

                • Guest

                  Now there’s a myth!

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Britain has always had a problem with a communist fifth column, “agents of influence” favouring the Soviet Union, as you do, mostly in naive foolishness and almost always concealing their proclivities under a mask of benign socialism. Don’t confuse genuine opposition with deliberate subversion. Britain was wrecked in the 1970s, I remember it well, and things changed drastically for the better with Thatcher. That change didn’t come without plenty of questionable side effects but make no mistake about the dire and vile swamp of socialist-inspired despondency she put an end to (now sadly apparent as a rearguard action only). Of course those hoping to create enough chaos to trigger revolution here were wrong footed by her success in turning the fortunes of the nation around.

                  Major and his Euro-wets followed, laying the carpet for Blair’s New Labour strutting and the gains were gradually pissed away or deliberately subverted. Then Cameron, another Euro-wet, shoved the Conservative party onto the socialist side of the field bar the corporate, loadsa money bit and here we are. On the way back to the 1970s but with many more mouths to feed and many more jobs to find.

                • Andy

                  And that change didn’t go far enough. We still have large public sector unions run by Fascist thugs. These need to be smashed and broken up, returning power to their members.

                • Wessex Man

                  Slimy lying socialist zealot.

                • Andy

                  More UK manufacturing closed under the Fascist Labour Party from 1997-2010 than under the whole of 18 years of Tory government.

                • Guest

                  Keep making up non-existent political parties which you want to exist so you could join them.

                • andyrwebman

                  Ah, but they could hide it by employing a load of people doing useless government funded jobs that didn’t make us any money. Typical socialist solution.

                • Guest

                  Thatcher’s fault..

                • global city

                  only in parts telemachus. The picture is not wholly good, in fact, given the huge numbers we are currently witnessing, it is largely negative.

                  Thatcher’s reforms are much more important a factor as to why our economic fortunes turned round than the simple metric of open borders. Ironically, the areas sufffering the worst from mass immigration are those places neglected by the Conservative governments, leaving seething ghettoes of mass unemployment of every hue….and yet they still come.

                  I know the game you play making these bone headed provocations, but the logical replies to them help to explain the shortcomings in the original waffle and therefore undermine the non-thinking behind them. Thanks.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  That was Margaret Thatcher you idiot.

                • Wessex Man

                  Slimy socialist liar.

              • Wessex Man

                liar.

              • Benbecula

                It isn’t good for the country when 1m young people can’t get work because apprenticeships and entrant level jobs are no longer there thanks to the politicians. The first duty of every MP is to look after the best needs of their constituents. Importing almost a million unskilled immigrants was never going to be beneficial for the country as a whole and now we know who are suffering the most.

              • allymax bruce

                Being good for the economy, is not necessarily good for the UK masses, living conditions, Public Institutions, low wages, cultural identity, ‘British’ ethics, National identity; basically, open-door immigration, even from EU, is only good for the migrants and the exchequer; not the people of UK.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Spot on. If you think the UK is just a global business, units of labour can come from anywhere, the cheaper the better. Questions of national identity, culture, tradition don’t figure.

                • andyrwebman

                  Of course. Higher GDP doesn’t mean that the people can afford to buy the things they need – e.g. housing.

              • global city

                but then, so much energy is expended on causes like immigrant poverty, how come, if they are all so bloody well paid?

              • Fergus Pickering

                Because you say so, Tele?

              • Guest

                Ah yes, the purge of all other cultures comes up. You always slip up!

              • andyrwebman

                But when will it stop? What population level would make even the left wingers say “OK, we’re up to capacity”?

                It all looks terribly like short term thiking to me – like using amphetamines to boost the amount of time you can stay awake.

          • Alexsandr

            well leaving the EU is a pre-requisite for regaining control of our borders

            • telemachus

              Do we really want to go back to draconian measures to prevent not just immigrants coming here but stopping our dynamic management brains travelling the continent implanting Anglo Saxon ideas on the Europeans

              • Adam Carter

                Don’t be silly.
                Having immigration controls is not the same as having emigration controls.

                • telemachus

                  Reciprocation is all

                • Adam Carter

                  Nonsense.
                  If we were to have a points based system that allowed immigrants who could make a positive contribution and other countries reciprocated then the ‘dynamic management brains’ you refer to could still go to the continent.
                  Couldn’t they?

                • telemachus

                  See elsewhere
                  What we need is a dynamic pan European melting pot

                • global city

                  Why? Explain.

                • telemachus

                  It is how the human collective animal evolves
                  Please look at history
                  The Celts integrated the Romans integrated the Vikings integrated the Normans integrated the Angevins integrated the Hueguenots integrated the Hanoverians
                  And on

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Sorry but we British have the rather endearing habit of thinking of ourselves as a community of individuals. We don’t want to be part of Fascist Labour’s ‘hive mind’ in the socialist nutter collective.

                • allymax bruce

                  Labour are not Socialists, per-se. I would say Labour are the Uber Communists of Political Theory; neither are their policies ‘representive’ of the People, nor are their intentions to provide government of, for, by the People. As a Political philosophy, I would say Labour are Capitalist Marxist Communists.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Or more precisely, socialist nutters.

                • allymax bruce

                  accepted; but only because you cite the term ‘nutters’.
                  However, would not be accepted if inverted; hence my inverse of 2 by 4, to 4 by 2 comparison.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Oh please spare us your inept grasp of British history. The scale of immigration foisted by your party HAS NO PRECEDENT in our history.

                • allymax bruce

                  Actually, you are selling a myth; and I’m being polite!
                  The Celts did not ‘integrate’, they were ‘situated’ at the base of the Alps, invaded their nearest rivals the Romans, beat them, then were themselves invaded by the Romans some 300 years later. Upon this, the Celts packed-up, and moved their tribe East to France, Scotland, Ireland, and the Scandi’s. Never have the Celts ‘integrated’. Is this what Labour indoctrination does to a person? Allow them to think telling lies, or, at least, Imposing myth-making propagnada into Society, is ‘acceptable’?

                • andyrwebman

                  The celtic culture was virtualy wiped out by Anglo Saxons. The Vikings caused huge loss of life, rape, and pillage. The normans ended Anglo Saxon culture and kept the population as serfs for generations.

                  We are the result of this, naturally we are the “winners” from these turbulent times. But for those caught up in them, it’s horrible.

                  Hence the Chinese curse “may you live in interesting times”

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Vacuous, meaningless garbage.

                • global city

                  as we do do now. I know loads more people who live/work in the States than I do who work in the EU. As for the numbers of people I know who have emigrated to OZ compared to those who have left to live in the EU, well, the numbers just don’t compare.

                • global city

                  CET?

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Maybe it’s better if the Anglo-Saxon ideas are kept home to put down the fascist and treasonous ideas you nuts are pushing.

              • mohdanga

                Yes, Switzerland’s and Norway’s economies have nosedived because they have not signed on to lunatic EU immigration policies.

                • HookesLaw

                  Norway is a member of the free market and the free movement of Labour and is a member of the Schengen Agreement. It pays money into the EU regional structural funds. If it were a member it would be the 10th largest net payer. I seem to remember a sad sick person being so upset he went round blowing people up and shooting them.

                  Switzerland is in Schengen. By various treaties it obeys most EU regulations including movement of labour. It is in dispute at the moment and does not look like winning it and may lose access to the single market. The EU has suspended negotiations towards Swiss participation in lucrative EU research and education programmes as a result.
                  Recently Switzerland announced it was giving access to Croatian workers and announced a return to more free access to EU workers, “Citizens from the EU-8 and the EU-17 thus once again benefit from complete and total free movement, as long as they come to Switzerland to work or, if they are not working, have enough resources to support themselves,”

                  About 20% of the Swiss population is immigrant.

                  So your statement is a long way from the truth.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  ‘About 20% of the swiss population is immigrant.’ I started visiting Switzerland in the 1980s & last went there a couple of years ago. During this time I have watched this beautiful, clean, tidy & orderly country degenerate into a grafitti-ridden & scruffy place. This change has taken place at the same time as Switzerland admitted huge numbers of immigrants. The swiss do not believe that the two are unconnected.

                • DWWolds

                  I have been visiting Switzerland since the 1970s and, like you, went again a couple of years ago. On the most recent visit I noticed a slight under-current that was not there before. Whether or not that was due to the increase in immigration I’m not sure though my Swiss friends did mention the number of immigrants.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  I asked a Swiss psychoanalyst teaching at one of the Zurich Institutes about the rise of graffitti from none to everywhere, expecting a nuanced reply. To my amazement he said ‘immigration’.

                • allymax bruce

                  Did the Swiss psychoanalyst’s answer amaze you because you expected his vocational capacity to supercede his personal opinion?
                  If you are in anyway ‘familiar’ with p-a, then isn’t it the Freudian ‘school of thought’ they use in Switzerland? if so, then why would you expect to be ‘amazed’?

                • Damaris Tighe

                  The Jungian school is the main one in Switzerland. The answer to your first question is yes, especially as his speciality is youth psychology!

                • allymax bruce

                  Hi Damaris Tighe, thanks for your reply. I was ‘taught’ only 3 schools of thought exist in any real sense; Freudian, Independent, and Kleinian. That’s why I said Freudian, as I knew Jung & Freud were close on their work as a model for p-a. Rod Main took my classes; although I had many excellent tutors/Supervisor, only Rod really understood Jung. Jung’s most profound effect on me was his theory of archetypes; excellent work.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Jung was a colleague of Freud but then he went his own way. He was Swiss so that’s why most p-a in Switzerland is Jungian. I like Fairbairn very much. He taught Winnicott who pioneered child p-a.

                • allymax bruce

                  You know your stuff, Sir/Mam.
                  Fairbairn, (Scots!), was the first to formulate ‘part-object relations’; Melanie Klein took it on from Fairbairn’s brilliant work.

                • Conway

                  Switzerland recently held a referendum about immigration. They voted to reduce it.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  see my comment below.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Lucky Swiss, they got to choose.

                • shaft120

                  The Swiss do not have to apply EU regulations to internal trade or non EU exports. It is also free to sign bilateral free tradr agreements, as it has done while the EU practises protectionist policy on trade. It does not have to take part in the common agracultural policy and it has it’s own position at the WTO ,where most regulation on trade comes from, instead of being represented by a single EU rep. It is currently deciding on imigration controls, but the point is, it has the sovereignty to make the choice. Over 80% of the population prefer their current agreement over the choice of becoming a member of th EU. On top of that the UK pays 100 times the amount the Swiss pay for their association as part of EFTA, for EU subs.

                • Wessex Man

                  oh no the lying slimy zealots mate has woken up now.

                • Blindsideflanker

                  I am pleased to see that Hookeslaw didn’t disappoint me.

                • mohdanga

                  How about asking the average native Swiss about how they feel about mass immigration of third worlders rather than the opinion of the elite and power brokers who support mass immigration ? No doubt the referendum last year which put a stop to the building of minarets was just an anomaly and the result of Swiss ‘xenophobia’, ‘racism’ and ‘bigotry’….unlike the tolerance of the enrichers who expect the hosts to bend over and acquiesce to their demands. Mass immigration has occurred in all Western countries without the express consent of the host populations.
                  Almost 20% percent of Canada’s population is immigrant as is the UK’s but I doubt many of the native populations are happy about this. The fact that 20% of Swiss are immigrants does not make it popular.
                  Here’s an interesting take on Switzerland’s push for mass immigration….sounds like everyone is on board, right?
                  http://gatesofvienna.net/2014/07/swiss-cheese/

                  And now opposition to immigration makes you a supporter to Anders Brevik? Now I get it.

                • allymax bruce

                  “And now opposition to immigration makes you a supporter to Anders Brevik?” (mohdanga).
                  The political elite (Bilderberg adherents) attempt to Impose that ‘association’, but the people of Switzerland are wise to this political manipulation; they demanded, by petition of <2.5% of population, referendums on all new gov' policymaking that effects Swiss society. That's what we should do.

                • mohdanga

                  Yup, it’s typical of the discussion around immigration, any opposition is ‘racist’, ‘bigotry’, ‘Islamaphobic’, blah, blah, blah. No evidence to argue with facts so throw out the buzz words to try and shut discussion down.
                  Agree with you on the referendum 100%.

                • Stephen

                  In 2012 Norway was the recipient of more immigrants as a proportion of population than any other European country except Luxembourg.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Norway is a rich country & self-sufficient in oil & gas. You’ve got to wonder why they inflicted this wound upon themselves.

                • Benbecula

                  The Swiss and Norwegian’s governments have imported masses of immigrants over the past decade and both have higher than average EU immigration rate. It’s the same with the UK , mass immigration had arrived long before the EU and even Farage isn’t against non-EU immigration.

                • andyrwebman

                  Note that the Swedes are suffering the effects of uncontrolled immigration – white flight from the city centre, cultural upheaval and one of the highest rates of rape in the world!

              • global city

                They have always done this. More British people work in the USA than work in the EU, and we’re not in political union with them. Many, many more people up sticks and emigrate to Australia than have retired to Spain.

                The 2.5m Brits in the EU meme is another fake one, over 1 million of these being people with property in the Costas!

                • telemachus

                  So
                  Let us continue a world wide melting pot
                  We cannot forever be little england

                • global city

                  As has been said thousands of times tele, it is the NUMBERS, not the prospect of funny foreigners living by you that most are raising their concerns about.

                  The numbers are massive and quite destructive. As I wrote the other day, the ‘melting pot’ great cosmopolis notion should only ever be at play in a few of the great cities, not through every hamlet and village in the land. Think that specific issue through before continuing to blindly celebrate a process that is destructive at the level we are currently witnessing.

                • allymax bruce

                  Good point, and comment.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  size matters

                • Cyril Sneer

                  I never voted for it and there was no remit from the British public for such a mass invasion.

                  There are many like me who will always hold Labour in utter contempt for what they have done to this country.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  But we don’t even have a melting pot. What we have are multiple inward-looking & isolated communities.

              • andyrwebman

                Nothing draconian about a points system. My sister’s had to pass through it for Australian citizenship.

                It’s hard work, and the law behind it is enforced vigorously, but that’s not draconian. It’s called standing up for your own interests.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Well if we leave the EU, I should think about 10 minutes should do it.

          • Mike Oddpiece

            Telemachus, if the problem, despite being against EU law, isn’t addressed the day we leave the EU will draw closer. I know you don’t wish this to happen so you should, rather than sniping, debate how control might be achieved through reform. Just saying “reform is impossible” is tantamount to saying “we will leave the EU”

          • Fergus Pickering

            Well fuck EU law. Just ignore it. Everyone else does.

            • Damaris Tighe

              To be bold enough to fuck EU law you have to be outside its system of patronage, which our rulers are not.

              • Fergus Pickering

                The French seem to manage pretty well ignoring the laws they don’t like. But I think we should leave. That’s why I vote UKIP. As you should.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  I’m a member.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Hail, friend. We shall overcome.

        • john king

          Have you got a dirty little secret in the whips book Mr Mucus?

        • Wessex Man

          there is no point debating with this slimy lying socialist zealot.

          • Andy

            Slimy lying Fascist Socialist zealot. Get it right.

          • Guest

            You’re not a socialist!

        • Guest

          We do. It’s far harsher than Oz’s, for 2/3’s of said immigration.

          We’re turning away people who get into America on O1 “Superstar” VISA’s – it’s a farce which is badly hurting UK companies ability to get skilled specialists.

        • andyrwebman

          Short term work permits instead of residential permits. Much better – gives us a chance to assess people.

      • Bob339

        We do not need immigrants of any flight.

      • Kitty MLB

        Maybe you have unfathomable depths little wasp but the most obvious is much fallaciousness from you.
        Those from the Middle East who live in mini ghettoes and don’t speak
        English are not skilled immigrants. And when they bring over their relatives, that’s an outstanding amount of people and they have no
        wish to integrate. What with the situation in that part of the world
        and ISIS getting ready to attack Israel, apparently, we should be able to refuse people who maybe a threat to our security.

        • Patriccia Shaw

          If ISIS so much as look at Israel they will be bombed to glory.
          They will truly wish they had not been born.

          • Kitty MLB

            Well they want total war.And then to become
            Martyrs..obviously followed by going to heaven
            with 27 virgins or whatever the amount happens
            to be..Only Islam could reward murder.

            • Patriccia Shaw

              ISIS may be evil but they are not stupid.
              They gain traction in Iraq because of a tacit understanding that the Government army will melt away.
              Until Baghdad itself.
              They will have read the runes from 1948, 1967 and 1973 and will bide their time.
              Jerusalem will not shrink from using their Nuclear Arsenal if their existence is threatened.

        • Cyril Sneer

          Well if ISIS want to be martyred on mass then Israel would be the country to pick a fight with.

          I look forward to the videos.

      • Kugelschreiber

        telemachus

        What about the countries left behind by your highly skilled immigrants? Do they not suffer if we encourage all their skilled people to come over here?

        • Colonel Mustard

          He’s too thick and extremist to follow that logic.

          • telemachus

            Not thick

            • Colonel Mustard

              Plenty thick.

            • Inverted Meniscus

              Exceptionally thick. You make 2 by 4 look like a matchstick.

              • allymax bruce

                Is 4 by 2 thick?

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  For comparative purposes and relative to a matchstick, yes.

        • Kitty MLB

          You’ll just befuddle him now. Also what happens when our highly skilled people leave.. but never mind that will confuse some even more.

          • telemachus

            We wish a 2 way mix
            A true pan European mixing pot

            • Patricia

              “We wish a 2 way mix
              A true pan European mixing pot”

              “We wish…?” Did “we” every get a chance to have a say on this ?
              Our true pan-European mixing pot seems to be a one-way ticket – over to us.

            • Blindsideflanker

              Which as an ethnic cleansing policy is a racist policy.

            • Colonel Mustard

              Wishful thinking but dire consequences. Just about sums your vile party up.

            • Inverted Meniscus

              Of socialist nutters.

        • andyrwebman

          Poland seems to have had this – abandoned farms all over the country.

      • global city

        Why can’t you?

      • Fergus Pickering

        Why can you not, Tele?. Why can’t we take the clever Indians and shut the door on the thieving gypsies?

      • andyrwebman

        Really? The only way to get skilled people is to allow in hundreds of unskilled ones and hope that a few clever ones get mixed up in them?

        Incredibly inefficient and terribly lacking in ambition. Step aside for someone who can do this!

    • Bob339

      You missed out they are addicted to the profits from heating, lighting, watering and accommodating the delightful immigrants all profits coming from the money the taxpayer has to cough up.

      • dado_trunking

        The more there are the higher the profits – well done for spotting that! Your Magna Carta second row (not the Monarch, not the people) milk you until you are dry.
        What took you all so long?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …maybe it was you fascist nutters and your media domination.

    • john king

      How can they do anything about it?
      Their dirty little secrets would be exposed via the whips books.
      vote UKIP and at least we would get clean faces making our laws.

      • Moderator

        UKIP blah blah blah. 2/3rds of immigration comes from outwith the EU, not from within.

        • Rillian

          Nigel Farage has called for five-year immigration ban.

          I’m pretty sure all immigration will be on the table with UKIP.

          • Guest

            No, it will not. The 1% will be able to travel freely under UKIP, regardless of what is inflicted on normal people.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Perhaps, but they’re only 1%, they all speak English, they don’t likely consume more benefits than they pay in taxes, etc.

              As opposed to the low skilled immigrant hordes.

      • Guest

        No black faces, etc.

    • Liberty

      The conservatives MAY be happy to curb mass immigration – in fact there is a majority in the party for it but they could not do anything about EU immigration, the LDs will not allow any change and if we did it unilaterally the government would be chased through the courts and it would cost a fortune – our money.

    • Damaris Tighe

      They see the UK as a business needing units of labour. These units can come from anywhere, it doesn’t matter. They have no feeling for nation, culture & tradition because these things have no place in the smooth running of a business.

    • Guest

      Ah yes, block the 99% from travelling. Smash the economy, and trash the living standards of said 99%. Brilliant!

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Who’s being blocked from traveling?

Close
Can't find your Web ID? Click here