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Podcast: Douglas Murray analyses the Israel-Gaza conflict

14 July 2014

12:31 PM

14 July 2014

12:31 PM

In our latest View from 22 podcast, Douglas Murray, Mary Wakefield and Fraser Nelson discuss the conflict in the Gaza strip. Has Israel become too good at protecting its citizens? And is there an inequality of conflict?

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Show comments
  • globalissues

    Make sure to check out The Borgen Project article on gaza. It shows a different perspective.

  • RoxanneRoxanadana

    In the late 1940’s in the UK, fascists, unhappy with the results of WWII, decided to use the Israel/Palestine stuff to cause riots. The same thing is happening again in France at this time. One gathers the United Kingdom might be next.

  • John Doeman

    the jew vs muzzy war is not an American concern … except for the weapons and tax dollars that zionists extort from our politicians.

  • dgb

    Ricks because statistical evidence over the past 14 years tells us that the for every 15 deaths in this conflict 13 are Palestinian. You said ‘thousands’, so let’s take that as 2000 Israeli deaths. That means there are 13, 000 Palestinian deaths. Which is the bigger number Ricks?

  • Ricks

    And to anybody who defends the Hamas, I will say this. In the past two decades, Hamas and its Jihad buddies have killed and maimed thousands of Israelis on buses, in hotels, in cafes and restaurants, in their homes and at their places of work. The Hamas operatives have rarely attacked soldiers, preferring to maximize civilian casualties. The Hamas exploited the unilateral Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 and has turned the entire area into a weapons depot. The Hamas has received billions of dollars of aid and investment and could have built a villa for every family in Gaza. But building an economy is not on the agenda, as we all know.

  • Ricks

    The current war can only have one end game result. The Hamas organization must leave the Gaza strip. Once Gaza is demilitarized, there will be another opportunity for the people of the Gaza strip to change direction. For certain, many now realize the mistake of voting the Hamas into government. The Hamas has no strategy other than Jihad, a strategy that is bringing destruction all over the middle-east. If The Hamas does not leave Gaza, the lulls between one round of battle and the next will become shorter and shorter and the death toll will grow. A propos the amazing success of iron dome will change the face of warfare for ever. In the past 20 years, Israel has hugely invested in defense. I believe that other countries will follow suit.

  • Ricks

    “If in the past year, if.you didn’t CRY OUT when thousands of protesters were killed and injured by Turkey, Egypt and Libya, when more victims than ever were hanged by Iran, women and children in Afghanistan were bombed, whole communities were massacred in South Sudan, 1800 Palestinians were starved and murdered by Assad in Syria, hundreds in Pakistan were killed by jihadist terror attacks, 10,000 Iraqis were killed by terrorists, villagers were slaughtered in Nigeria, but you ONLY cry out for GAZA, then you are not pro HUMAN RIGHTS, you are only ANTI-ISRAEL.” — Hillel Neuer, Executive Director of UN Watch, July 15, 2014 See More

  • dgb

    For a smart fellow, Israel’s biggest cheer leader Douglas Murray lacks basic ability in arithmetic. The title, as always, forces the assumption that Israel is the party suffering the most from the current events. The score card to date is Israel 3 – Palestine 170. So, two problems for Mr. Murray: 1) Place the Correct Comparison Symbol (>, < or =) between 3 and 170. 2) Replace one proper noun with another proper noun to fix the bias in your title. Good luck Mr. Murray.

  • Pat Conway

    Israel is never held accountable for her actions and one incident that was never even properly investigated by the US government was the attack on the USS Liberty in 1967. Surviving crew members have said they were deliberately attacked by Israel planes and a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard the pilot’s radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.
    And as a USS Liberty crewman said: If it was an accident, it was the best planned accident I’ve ever heard of.”

    • Arturaski

      1967? Are you f***ing kidding?

      • Pat Conway

        Should we forget history?

        • RoxanneRoxanadana

          No. But we should not exaggerate matters so as to encourage riots against Jews. Irish Americans did just that before & during WWII. Father Coughlin’s Social Justice monsters caused all sorts of violence against Jewish people with the connivance of the government. Somehow, that never resulted in a dollar’s being paid.

    • lookout

      The Liberty Incident, a chapter in The Secret War Against The Jews, by John Loftus and Mark Allen ( I think ) explains fully the whole incident. The Brits and the Americans were telling the Arabs, during a war with Israel all of Israel’s battle plans and military positions via electronic surveillance by the Liberty, Kissinger wanted Israel to get a “bloody nose” before negotiations would start. Israel only took out the radars, the truth is all ways tough

      • lookout

        The book was/is banned in the UK.

      • Pat Conway

        “Israel only took out the radars.” So how did the loss of 34 crewmen come about?

    • RoxanneRoxanadana

      The shooting of the USS Liberty, to the degree there was liability, was settled by payments from Israel to the family. What you want is not a settlement, but a mass murder of Jews in the US.

  • Pat Conway

    Israel will kill hundreds of Palestinians and, as has happened in previous acts of ‘self defence’ by the state of Israel, the West will cry that’s enough slaughter for now until it all kicks off again.
    Israel is not sincere about real peace. If she was it would end the land grabbing, the illegal settlements, the daily harrasment of the people of Gaza. Israel would also observe international law.

    • DazEng

      What do you think a “Win” looks like for the Palestinians?
      Just out of curiosity.

    • MissDemeanor

      if Israel isn;t sincere about peace, how did it hold peace for 30 years with Egypt and Jordan, while Hamas was throwing fatah member off rooftops a few years ago and killing christians, and turning the Sinai into a bloodbath?

      And If Israelis were killing as many Palestinians as you ppl say there care, it’s a miracle that Gaza not only still exists, but is so overpopulated and there are more Palestinians there now, then 70 years ago!

      just another useful idiot parroting terrorist Pallywood propaganda

      • Pat Conway

        Shame you can’t see the lies and propoganda from the state of Israel. Remarkable that in her short history she has managed to alienate so much of the world. I wonder why?

        • Augustus

          It’s a shame people like you are so thick they can’t see that Israel’s disengagement from Gaza in fact plunged Israel deeper into the mire of terrorism, rockets, and operations meant to reduce those threats emanating from Gaza. Terrorist Rockets now reach as far as northern Israel. In areas where there is a Jewish presence there is security for civilians, In areas they vacate radical Islamists appear and immediately fill the vacuum. Drunk with a sense of victory they then become motivated to step up further terrorist activities to push Jews out of further areas. But it won’t work because the Jews are determined to stay in their ancestral homeland.

          • Pat Conway

            Always a sign of someone losing a debate when they have to resort in personal insults.

            • Augustus

              OK, amend that to: It’s a shame Israel haters can’t see….

              Because it’s not only Israel that is threatened by extremism, even if bombs and missiles aren’t falling on us. How do you compromise with those who see themselves pursuing a religious mission to kill you? That is what the radicals like Hamas are about in their determination to destroy Israel.

    • lookout

      The Palestinians have not kept to any of the multiple peace accords with Israel, Ehud Barak offered 97per cent of land the Palestinians asked for, the other 3per cent Isreal could not give for security reasons, they were offered 3per cent of other land in Israel to compensate and 400 billion dollars as reparations and to build a state, Arafat refused and called for 1,000,000 suicide bombers to March on Jerusalem, how can you deal with people who act like that?

  • Pat Conway

    “Israel wants to stop the rockets being fired.” You mean Israel wants to carry on killing the women and children of Gaza because of the actions of Hamas militants.

    • Alexsandr

      its a war. when you are fired on in a war you do what is necessary to root out and destroy the enemy. The bloodshed in Gaza is the fault of Hamas and Hamas alone. What do Hamas expect Israel to do when hamas shoot at them? send belgian chocolates?

      • Pat Conway

        It’s not a war.

        • Alexsandr

          War Is Merely the Continuation of Policy by Other Means –

          Carl von Clausewitz

    • lookout

      Clueless and deluded, The wars against Israel from the late 1960s were planned financed and controlled by the Kremlin, Caroline Glick youtube, check it out

      • Pat Conway

        Clueless and deluded to believe the lies and propoganda from Israel.

      • Pat Conway

        lookout let me ask you why, on so many occasions, have the IDF ‘accidentally’ targeted and killed UN observors, UN peacekeepers, hitting schools and hospitals in Lebanon and Gaza. Is it just pure incompetence on the part of the IDF or do you honestly believe the lies and cover ups by Israel?

  • firestone

    “Justified Vengeance”, The Pretext for Bombing Gaza: Was the Netanyahu Government behind the Killings of the Three Israeli Teenagers?
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/justified-vengeance-the-pretext-for-bombing-gaza-was-the-netanyahu-government-behind-the-killings-of-the-three-israeli-teenagers/5391093

  • will91

    “What country on Earth would actually celebrate if 100 Israelis were killed?”

    I quite like Fraser Nelson but has he been in a coma for the last 20 years?

  • alabenn

    Have you given no thought as to why Hamas started this current situation by murdering three Israeli teenagers.

    Could it not be that their bosses in Iran have just started to renege on its nuclear obligations in regard to lifting sanctions, so too muddy the waters they have initiated these futile attacks.

    They know Obama is at best weak minded and Kerry is totally ineffectual and carries no weight behind him, the West wants this to go away, so some shoddy compromise will see that sanctions will not be enforced and Iran will carry on regardless, a few hundred Palestinians dying helps to mask their real intentions

  • Frank

    What extraordinary questions “has Israel become too good at protecting its citizens, is there inequality of conflict”. I suppose on that basis Britain should have allowed the IRA to kill 10 soldiers before Britain could kill one IRA man. You really are children.

    • alabenn

      This shows the mindset of the so called leading voices in the West, they have become morally debased, what really is extraordinary is that it is the norm and they wont thank you for pointing it out.

  • Donafugata

    There may be fewer Israeli casualties but that is not because Hamas aren’t trying, the intention is there.

    In any case, they know they can’t win, they provoke Israel to retaliate and when it does they cry victim.

    For Hamas it is only ever a propaganda war.

  • anyfool

    Douglas, you say the rest of the world want equality of conflict, no, the Arab and Muslim world, their socialist groupies in the West like the BBC and parts of , Labour Party in the UK, want Israel wiped from the face of the world.

    • MissDemeanor

      to anybody who comes with this ludicrous notion that in a war there should be ‘proportionality’, I always say: yes, i agree

      for every rocket launched randomly into Israel, the IDF should launch a rocket randomly into gaza

      then they shut up like the braindead morons that they are

      • dgb

        Miss Demeanor, do you think the Palestinians might just stop firing rockets if say, you know, the Israelis stopped occupying the occupied territories? You know the ones I mean, don’t you? The ones even the Beit HaMishpat HaElyon has ruled to be in flagrant violation of international law for the past four decades. Yes, No, Maybe? What do ya reckon?

        Now, on to the ludicrous notion of ‘proportionality’ and your ludicrously poor understanding of it. According to the B’Tselem which has tracked conflict related deaths for 14 years, the overwhelming majority of deaths are Palestinian, 87% to 13%. So that means for every 15 deaths, 13 are Palestinian…ya sure you want to bring real ‘proportionality’ into this equation?

      • brent kaufman

        Or… just as the barbaric animals in Gaza are trying to wipe out all Israelis, so too, the Israelis should try to wipe out all Palestinians. How’s that for a “proportional response”? Too bad that the animals aren’t very successful at their cause.

  • Augustus

    “They want an equality of conflict.”

    This may be what people like Jeremy Bowen want, but any unbiased observer knows that, as opposed to Israel, Hamas has absolutely no moral standards of warfare and actually places their Palestinian civilians in danger by ignoring Israeli warnings, and telling them to remain in their homes so that they can use the death toll with the MSM as propaganda against Israel . Which just shows you what a disgusting bunch of satanic extremists they are. God know why Israel bothers to do what is unprecedented in the history of warfare, especially after so many assaults on its on civilians, but it does, and by doing so it sets a moral standard of what can be expected from a civilized nation having to play at defence. No doubt, if it did more, and set about actually crushing Hamas out of existence there would be countless more deaths in Gaza from the anarchy which then emerged.

  • Winston Burchill

    We must back Israel.

    • Chris Morriss

      Another dystopian socialist state that we “must” back. When will it end? Are you going to suggest that we “must” back North Korea next?

      • MissDemeanor

        ^ oh look another useful idiot

        I would compare MUSLIM COUNTIRES to the totalitarian dictatorship of NK, and certainly not Israel

  • Alexsandr

    maybe the Jews want to keep the mysogenistic, female genital mutilating, child raping*, violent people way from their women and children.

    * check out Mufa’ Khathat or thighing.

  • Shazza

    Slightly off topic but has anyone noticed that none of the MSM has reported on the attack by moslems on a synagogue in Paris on Sunday? The moslems had been demonstrating about Israel’s response to the ongoing onslaught of rockets from Gaza.

    Pop over to the Vlad Tepes site and there is a full report together with video coverage.
    Jews are facing increasing attacks by moslems in France but I am sure that our cowardly MSM must be aware of this attack on the synagogue but refuse to report the truth when it comes to the RoP’s attitude to Jews in France.

    They should hang their heads in shame.

    • sarah_13

      Yes I have made the same comment myself on the telegraph site also.

      so called “pro-palestinians” shouting “death to jews” and slaughter jews” whilst throwing stones at jews in a synagogue in the heart of paris!! The only person to have commented, as far as I can see, is Owen jones on his twitter saying that these jew haters don’t represent the palestinian cause. Well I’m afraid they do. Scratch the surface and that is exactly what they are. Jones has been posting comment after comment recently of one dimensional sentimental remarks about the death toll in gaza instead of fully explaining the reasons for this and the cause. In the height of the hysteria that such one dimensional postings generate those hate filled zealots will not distinguish between “jew” and “non-jew”, after all in gaza anyone who makes a pro-israel remark in any way is a “zionist” as the recently executed “collaborator” would have testified.

      • Shazza

        Spot on.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Spot on. That idiot Owen Jones seems to think that the as it doesn’t “represent the Palestinian cause” the stoning etc is fine. Typical leftist scumbag.

  • Colonel Mustard

    “It sounds bad, 8,000 rockets fired into Israel”.

    Probably sound a lot worse if they were being fired in your direction Fraser. If you think “low grade” rockets are something to scoff at I suggest you get yourself out to Israel and try standing out in the open under a bombardment of them.

    • sarah_13

      I know, what an astonishing remark. 1 million people were suffering daily bombardments in the south prior to the latest escalation of rocket attacks, and even israel ignored that because it didn’t affect everyone in israel now even israel can’t ignore it! The whole thing is ridiculous. Would we just accept a life of running to air raid shelters every half an hour because we may or may not be killed or injured by a “low grade rocker”. I can’t believe Fraser said that.

  • MirthaTidville

    If the Arabs laid down their weapons tomorrow there would be no more war. If Israel laid down its weapons tomorrow there would be no more Israel…

    • Tim Baker

      let’s hope they both destroy each other, and leave the rest of the world in peace

      • James Heron

        Cheers Tim. As a citizen of Israel, and someone who cares about the ‘right for life’ (call me a traditionalist) on both sides, i hope you don’t get your wish.

      • John Doeman

        let’s hope they both destroy each other, and leave the rest of the world in peace

        the abrahamics are a violent lot of murderous animals.

    • John Doeman

      If Israel laid down its weapons tomorrow there would be no more Israel

      if the US stopped funding the land stealing zionists they would be history in short time.

      the good news!
      as Americans become more secular the religious will lose political power and be forced to fund their own charities and fight their own silly religious wars.

      fwiw – during the crudsades the jews and muzzies fought side by side against the xians.

  • sarah_13

    Well done Douglas. Please keep up your brave work. Mary Wakefield’s nonsense is dispairing basically saying israel is the cause of their anger. She has no idea. Go to Gaza, see how they are taught to hate., see how every failure and example of corruption in gaza and PA increases their anger that is displaced and directed to the jews.

    I also don’t understand the argument “only a few israelis are killed” therefore they are bad. What has that got to do with anything?! They should just let rockets fire into israel that may or may not kill people? Is that what we would do in the UK? Israel wants to get rid of terrorists so they can’t get more powerful rockets. Mary and Fraser just think oh leave it, appease the less competent terrorists, they will go away. They won’t. The “international community” doesn’t care. Why should they? They don’t have to run to air raid shelters every half an hour. Imagine how that affects an economy? We want israel only to do something when the israelis lives are as chaotic as the palestinians. Unfortunately we may all learn how that chaos works sooner than we think.

  • anyfool

    So it boils down to the fact that, because the Israelis love their own children more than Muslims love their own children, it is not fair.

    • will91

      Hamas love death. They particularly love dead children, for rather obvious reasons. Indeed, their primary weapon isn’t rockets, it’s the CNN and BBC who have allowed Hamas to win the hearts and minds of many in the West. They must be laughing to themselves on a daily basis at how they’ve managed to completely win over the naive, bourgeois socialist’s who parade around university campuses with their f@#king placards.

    • John Doeman

      the Israelis love their own children more than Muslims love their children

      say the land stealing jews.

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