Coffee House

Miliband’s message: I’m neither New Labour nor Old Labour

19 July 2014

8:52 AM

19 July 2014

8:52 AM

On the hottest weekend of the year, few people would want to be stuck inside in Milton Keynes. But that is where the Labour hierarchy finds itself. For this weekend is the party’s national policy forum.

Ed Miliband’s speech today is meant to try and show that while he has moved on from New Labour he is not old Labour. There will be much talk of how fiscal restraint will have to continue and how Miliband knows there can be no return to the free spending ways of the past. One aide sums the message up as, ‘We know there is no money to spend.’

But it’ll be fascinating to contrast Miliband’s speech today with the one that Tony Blair is giving on Monday to mark the 20th anniversary of his election as Labour leader. They will offer two quite different prospectuses for the centre-left.

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  • peter the painter

    I’d rather them be Corporate whores than overpopulating us with poor people (emigres) so that they can appeal to the bleeding hearts of the chittering classes, (clinking their glasses) who will ‘demand’ a socialist solution to the ‘poverty-strucken’ underclasses.

  • Conway

    Perhaps he’s not Labour at all?

  • http://t.co/rXjomKpfUv JP Janson De Couet

    So what is he then? New New Labour? The Lib Dems?

  • HookesLaw

    The nutjobs will be pleased to know that I am backing Cameron as a True Conservative

    • Aberrant_Apostrophe

      Ah, but who is the ‘True Conservative’, yourself or Cameron?

  • Smithersjones2013

    Not Old Labour nor New Labour just hard labour……….

    • HookesLaw

      Its been clear for a while that New Labour is dead and buried. Despite what Miliband says he is leading an unreconstructed Old Labour. In admitting that the ‘New’ tag had been dropped it was inevitable that Miliband would come up with this little bit of spin.
      Basically Miliband is a crypto-marxist.

  • swatnan

    Could it be the same old Labour, or progessive Labour.
    Hoping to be a the Blair do and asking Tony What are we to do with Israel?
    Obviously a 2 State solution won’t work. So its got to be a 1 State Palestine, with Jews and Arabs living side by side in relative harmony, rather like Catholics and Protestants in NI. One of the successes on Blairs Govt to balance the failures like Iraq.

  • beenzrgud

    Gee, it’s like Blair mk2, only even more shallow !

  • ray odonnell

    http://innovation.uk.msn.com/design/the-bullet-train-with-a-foot-spa

    HS3 starting at Birmingham via Manchester, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds, and then the London Hub. Linking the UK rail network, north of Watford major city’s and airports with the continent. Now this is an engineering project worth over £50 Billion.
    The £50 Billion to save 20 minutes on the London to Birmingham HS2 is an absolute waste if started before the north, south HS3 route that will save hours, unite the country, and modernise the ancient Victorian rail network thats in place now.
    PS, The UK government built and owned HS3, perhaps the Labour Party manifesto could include this HS3 route. A major boost to the unemployed north of the Watford gap right into the heart Scotland. On ya bike Boris. lol.

    • HookesLaw

      Perhaps they could start from both ends. Perhaps there are engineering reasons why it might start where it will.

      London the Birmingham will not cost 50 billion as you assert (it will be about half that) – the £50 billion including a massive political based contingency covers the whole London the Manchester Leeds via Birmingham line.
      The time saving is over 20 minutes – Birmingham to London journeys will be almost halved from 1 hour 24 minutes to 45 minutes. The existing main line will be free to offer better services.

      • Conway

        London the (sic) Birmingham will not cost 50 billion as you assert (it will be about half that)” Since when has any government project ever come in under budget (or on time for that matter)? If you had said it will be at least double that, I might have believed you.

  • BigAl

    If you vote Labour and have a job, the majority of you will pay more taxes. It is inevitable under tax and spend parties whatever cosy name they chose for themselves.

    • Jacques Strap

      Or lose that job.

      • Conway

        I expect they can always retrain as diversity co-ordinators. There will be no shortage of those, I’m sure. Five a day enablers, playtime regulators, and on, and on …

    • Mukkinese

      Except that Labour took less in taxes, on average, than the previous Tory governments or this coalition.

      Get your facts right and stop swallowing the rubbish the press feeds you…

      • Holly

        Could that be because more people were on state benefits under Labour,or enjoyed Labour’s tax loopholes?

        • Conway

          More people are taking out than are contributing – it’s a recipe for disaster. Mind you, a lot of productive people left, taking their tax revenue with them. Miliband has learned nothing from his idol Hollande.

      • BigAl

        If you borrow the amount of money that Labour did with no means of paying it back i.e. a structural deficit then others will have to clean up the mess. The structural deficit is a fact though not mentioned by the Guardian and its mouthpiece the BBC.

  • Colonel Mustard

    Be afraid. Be very afraid. Ever incarnation of marxist government in history has been achieved by a subversive minority securing absolute power “for the good of the people”.The foundation has already been laid with a vast, unelected “shadow government” and the gradual demonisation of right wing thinking to become “unacceptable”.

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      I like the ‘shadow government’ phrase: some readers may think you mean the shadow ministers etc in parliament but you mean the massive ‘stay behind army’ in the civil service, judiciary, police service, all the faux charities, the BBC etc.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Correct, thanks.

    • telemachus

      I am afraid
      Very afraid
      The revanchist forces this very week purged the true right wing zealots such as Gove and Patterson
      They replaced them with pretty girls with smiling faces to hoodwink the electorate
      I am not at all sure that the gullible Sun readers might not be fooled
      I remain afraid

  • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

    Not Old Labour not New Labour
    Not bold Labour; not Blue Labour.
    Not One Nation Labour; just Labour

    …and as such should be exposed for the lying, hypocritical, treacherous shyster he is. How can people forget how close he was to the machinations of the last disaster (which ended just over 4 years ago): an unmitigated disaster started and finished by traitors who in centuries past would already be gaoled or executed for their vile deeds.

    • telemachus

      We must not rehearse again how Gordon rescued us and the world’s banks from the American Subprime debacle
      To day is about the future
      A future crafted by a visionary team
      And as you will see from Ed’s full speech we will achieve responsible egalitarianism

      • Holly

        …And as we see in today’s reality…
        Labour were/are useless….
        AGAIN.

        • Makroon

          Miliband is many things, but “centre-left” is not one of them Forsyth, you chump.

      • saffrin

        Do they still believe that bull*hit do you think?
        The electorate I mean not those brain dead idiots that go a Labour conferencing.

        • fundamentallyflawed

          “Gordon rescued us and the world’s banks from the American Subprime debacle”… More like it was a world wide car crash and Gordon was in the driving seat

          • saffrin

            The thing is though, it wasn’t “World Wide”.
            Only the USA, half of Europe and Iceland.

            • fundamentallyflawed

              That’s pretty much world wide where free market capitalism is concerned

              • Alexsandr

                not been to SE asia then?

                • fundamentallyflawed

                  No – but I am not sure to what extent the SE economies rely on a banking sector like the ones in the west. Many of the SE economies relatively speaking are still quite poor (Japan probably being the exception). For all the talk of tiger economies and emerging markets they still pale into insignificance to the combined markets of Europe and the US.

                • Wessex Man

                  oh dear, it’s that sort of attitude, if repeated in any numbers will leave us up the creek with no paddles.

                • fundamentallyflawed

                  In what way?

              • saffrin

                It’s pretty much world wide where our media are concerned too.
                The thing is, you don’t have to believe their bulls*it.
                Not until they make a law demanding it anyway.
                Like heresy or the holocaust.

            • peter the painter

              The only thing that saved us from the subprime sludge which engulfed Ireland and Spain was never joining the Euro. Who do we have to thank for this: Enoch Powell..

          • telemachus

            The evidence is clear. It was the British government’s decision, announced on 8 October 2008, to take a controlling interest in three major banks that prompted the Europeans, followed quickly by the Americans, to do likewise. Indeed, the Europeans made no secret of this. A few days after the British had acted Brown was invited to address the 15 eurozone heads of government. “My friend Gordon has the right plan, we must do it in Europe,” said the French President Sarkozy, introducing Brown to the gathering. The Europeans followed suit on 13 October and the Americans, prompted by Brown, the next day.

            • Alexsandr

              but the position the banks were in was at least partially the governments fault. the LABOUR government. So he was clearing up his own cr@p, with our money, for which he deserves no plaudits.

              • fundamentallyflawed

                Its like someone breaking your legs and saying,, “its ok mate, I will drive you around”

            • HookesLaw

              The evidence is not clear.

              And I do not think theFed or US Government were waiting on Gordon Brown before committing wat turned out to be $16 trillion in support of the system.
              Eg – this press release
              Press Release
              Release Date: September 16, 2008
              For release at 9:00 p.m. EDT
              The Federal Reserve Board on Tuesday, with the full support of
              the Treasury Department, authorized the Federal Reserve Bank of New York to lend up to $85 billion to the American International Group (AIG) under section 13(3) of the Federal Reserve Act. The secured loan has terms and conditions designed to protect the interests of the U.S. government and taxpayers.

              September comes before October.
              And as Wiki says
              ‘The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (Division A of Pub.L. 110–343, 122 Stat. 3765, enacted October 3, 2008), commonly referred to as a bailout of the U.S. financial system, is a law enacted in response to the subprime mortgage crisis authorizing the United States Secretary of the Treasury to spend up to $700 billion to purchase distressed assets.’

              3 comes before 8

            • Makroon

              Is that a direct quote from Brown’s book ?

          • realfish

            Gordon Brown once boasted that the strength of a country’s currency was a reflection of the strength of its economy. That was immediately before the £ was devalued by around 30% against the $, the € and a basket of other world currencies; 20% against the Australian Dollar and over 100% against the Yen.

            Yes there was a world wide banking crisis, but (unfortunately for the terminally myopic Telemachus), the money markets, told a story of how under Brown, Balls and Miliband, Britain lost control of its economy and the world responded, rating Britain as, by far, the sickest of the sick.

        • Terry Field

          The hordes of the votes-for-sale will vote for the little fraud with enthusiasm.

      • Alexsandr

        gordon ‘rescued’ us from the subprime crash (clintons fault BTW) because he had caused the problem in the UK with rubbish regulation, the so called tripartate system, where no-one was responsible, and because he ran a defecit at the height of his debt fuelled boom. And getting out of the brown mess has been made so much harder because of all the off balance sheet liabilities , like PFI and network rail debt, that he bequeathed the taxpayers, their children and their grandchildren. And now his henchmen, like mr and mrs b0110cks, his lackeys at the treasury, the stafford culpable burnham and the paedophile apologists, the dromeys seek toi be taken seriously, together with the hapless millipede, author of the climate change act that has made fuel poverty so much worse.
        whats not to hate?
        (Sorry, forgot to mention the Iraq war, uncontrolled immigration and selling our gold at bottom.)

        • Makroon

          Wrecking the education system, NHS on the verge of bankruptcy, defence budget totally out of control, an unaffordable benefits system rapidly becoming a life-style choice ?

          • HookesLaw

            And yet the extreme right want to split the vote and let Miliband back in. Insane. Calling them extreme right is really rather polite when we read the worlds of the loony bigot under the name of Viceroy’s Gin.

            • Conway

              Well all those Conservatives could stop splitting the vote and vote UKIP.

            • Makroon

              Viceroy is just a self-loathing remittance man, (whose remittance is often late thus making him a bit tetchy). I’m surprised you always rise to the bait.

          • Conway

            Don’t forget sneaking off to sign the Lisbon Treaty in a back room.

      • RavenRandom

        Comical Tele rehearsing his lies again.

        • Wessex Man

          there’s nothing comical about telemachus, he is quite sinister, I expect he’s a teacher or employed in HR at one of the tinpot councils currently spending money like there’s no tomrrow.

          The best wayto handle him here is to ignore him.

      • Colonel Mustard

        You are a propaganda poster and I have a real problem with misguided people who want to re-play the Russian Revolution in England, especially when they try and do it dishonestly by pretending they are not what they are.

        “To win support for their ideas, the Bolsheviks took control of the printing presses. Despite a shortage of supplies and equipment, they rapidly produced newspapers, leaflets and posters. This proliferation of colourful propaganda posters transformed towns and cities, creating a street art available to all. The continual renewal of images, as well as multiple copies pasted up together, reinforced the fundamental messages of communal power and solidarity. Lenin and the Bolshevik leaders were portrayed as heroically unifying, while their enemies in the Civil War were reviled.

        After Stalin became leader in 1927, the propaganda machine promoted the collectivisation of land and the drive for industrialisation, oblivious to the terrible hardships caused by these policies. Stalin’s benevolent image was everywhere, but it barely masked the terror of the show trials and executions that blighted the 1930s. The revolutionary fervour conveyed through the early posters now enforced a repressive dictatorship. The ideas and illusions conveyed in these posters were far from reality.”

        The delusion you people suffer from has caused untold misery to millions. Time to give it up before any more damage is done.

        http://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-modern/display/russian-revolutionary-posters

        • telemachus

          It ill becomes those who decry Stalin

          Was Stalin Russia’s saviour or misfortune?

          There are many arguments about Stalin being Russia’s saviour or misfortune; there is no doubt that Stalin brought Russia forward economically and industrially quicker than Russia could have taken; but also there is no doubt that Stalin was a bit of a megalomaniac.

          He initiated collectivisation which was greatly successful in the economical department
          His organisation of the communist party contributed greatly to the USSR winning the war. He planned how he would work collectivisation and knew he had to set high targets to get high results, he also knew he had to be harsh to get such high standards. He got himself spies to spy on other countries, Stalin did not want to fight wars on two fronts.

          Stalin probably singlehandedly destroyed Hitler

          • Colonel Mustard

            A “bit of a megalomaniac”? You are a bit of a megalomaniac. Stalin was a monster.

            His collectivisation strategy murdered millions, like Mao’s.

            His purging of his own officer cadre in the 1930s almost lost him the war.

            The Tate’s criticism is mild as you might expect from a lot of luvvies wrestling with their lefty contradictions. I’ll decry Stalin as long as I live and take no lectures from you trying to justify murderous communist tyrants. The only upside to your repulsive hagiography of a thoroughly nasty piece of work is that it tells us much about the dark heart of the Labour party.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            What a disgusting comment. You defile and pollute these threads with this facile rubbish on behalf of Labour the liars party.

          • HookesLaw

            What an idiot. If you think collectivisation was successful you need your head examining.
            At least 5 million people died of starvation in one year alone. And thats not counting the purges.

        • eclair

          Have anyone SEEN this so called street art? It’s the most scary divisive delusional and paranoid selection of rubbish ever produced with the exception of the prewar German Expressionists who were doing it for their own reasons anyway. There is also a picture by an apparently ‘free’ impressionist Russian painter, a depiction of Stalin in a glass topped coffin which is the stuff of nightmares. Perhaps Telemachus might like to absorb some of the art of the period, if he can absorb anything that is, before shrieking the cr@p he uses to pass for reasoned debate. I agree with Wessex man. Ignore him. Let him paint himself into a corner

      • Hexhamgeezer

        Neither Old nor New, just Laboured

      • mandelson

        Troll bait

        • dave244

          Yes he is but unfortunately he is also a reflection of how the political establishment think and act

      • Inverted Meniscus

        We are just sick of your socialist nutter gibberish laddie. Nobody believes you so just stop polluting these threads with your nonsense on behalf of Labour the party of lies, lying, liars, failure of mediocrity.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Oh do stop telling the same lies in the hope they will become true.

      • Terry Field

        What garbage – he will simply do what Healey did – tax anyone who has anything until the pips squeak and keep the massive state spending going to support the lazy feckless slobocracy for another few years.
        You are a marketing liar.

        • Conway

          I believe the phrase “The Brain Drain” was coined to describe the effects of 90% tax.

          • Terry Field

            84% income tax+ 14% unearned income tax supplement = 98% TAX ON DIVIDEND INCOME
            £50 foreign exchange per year – stamped in the passport. Prices and income policy.
            Socialist bastards.
            They never change.

          • sacicr

            Another myth. Academics who left the country were fewer than made out. The heavy taxes were for banks and extremely wealthy, not the middle classes. Taxes for them have always been paid back in buckets, through the treasure of the NHS, excellent services and education.

        • sacicr

          You mean the banks, private health companies, G4S, Serco, the energy companies of course, don’t you? Surely you cannot mean all those poor sods forced into unemployment and zero hours contracts by the offshoring of all our jobs to China?

          • Terry Field

            If you think that inadequate will have any traction in milking multinationals who operate in the UK to subsidise the slobocracy you must be deranged. As for the zero hours contracts and other soft contracts of employment, I have never seen any evidence that labour terms protection by any state has achieved anything positive for the people involved. Globalisation requires new thinking, something he and you are plainly totally incapable off.

      • dave244

        As you are celebrating “how Gordon rescued us and the world’s banks” don’t forget it was Gordon and the rest of the political establishment who should shoulder some of the responsibility for the world wide banking crisis because it was the Thatcher government that started the deregulation of the banking sector which was embraced by the Major Government and by the Brown/Blair government “light touch regulation” was the phrase that was used and then led to a point where the banks thought they could do anything they liked and in some cases did and as long as Brown/Blair government had a cheap supply of money they were happy to look the other way.
        I think personally you should stop looking at “Gordon” with a rose-tinted brain after all did he not say we have “put
        an end to boom and bust” and we all now how that turned out and given how close Miliband/balls were to the last labour Government they are not the solution they part of the problem

      • whs1954

        Oh yes, he saved the world didn’t he, how silly of us all to forget that so easily and not be eternally grateful.

  • saffrin

    Ed Miliband hasn’t an original thought in his tiny little head.
    The sad little man’s speeches will only promote self harm and/or mass suicide.

    • Holly

      The bods in the room will be in awe of this idiot’s ‘wisdom’.

      • fundamentallyflawed

        Milliband ” give the vote to the young” Milliband “ignore my fathers views he was young”. Hypocrisy

        • Holly

          ‘Give the vote to the young’, because the older have sussed out we are useless, and can see through our spin, lies and half truths.

          • Conway

            Give the vote to the young because we’ve so wrecked their education that they can no longer think for themselves.

    • telemachus

      Listen to the speech in a few hours
      *
      Now I must leave you to concentrate on the debate

  • Holly

    ‘I’m neither New Labour nor

    • telemachus

      We have moved on
      Keep up

      • Holly

        Miliband & Co repeating bull*shit over and over again does NOT make them fit for government, or demonstrate that they have learnt anything. It certainly does not mean they have changed, when for the last four years have been spending imaginary bank bonuses quicker than the bankers receiving them.
        Plus the fact that relying on them to pay for stuff that will be implemented before a penny is received in the treasury coffers make them just as ‘uncertain’ as zero hours contracts.
        Even if nothing is implemented before the cash hits it’s ‘target’ many of the Labour ‘projects’ will never happen due to lack of funding.

        It will only be five years since the Labour party, which included these two at the treasury, caused pure meltdown in our economy by failing to do what was expected of them…
        Govern properly.

      • saffrin

        You are still in denial of the damage your party did to this country both at home and abroad.
        You may think burying your head in the sand will make it all go away, the electorate on the other hand will never forget.
        Even your indoctrinated youth know Labour are responsible for their poor education, unemployment and their prospects for the future are dismal.

        • telemachus

          Educational standards rose: 80 per cent of 11-year-olds reached the expected standard in English and 79 per cent in maths, compared with figures in 1997 of 63 per cent for English and 62 per cent for maths. As promised in 1997, free nursery places for all three- and four-year-olds were introduced, while at the other end of the educational ladder more young people attended university than ever before, including an increase in the number of students from poorer homes. Significantly, although polls showed that voters believed that crime had risen, overall crime was in fact down by 36 per cent – domestic burglary down by 54 per cent and violent crime down by 41 per cent. http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2014/07/18/how-new-labour-built-one-nation/#sthash.xLUIgqny.dpuf

          • saffrin

            Your lot dumbed the system down to such a level Labour government statistics are meaningless.
            JesusChrist, your lot are still under the dilution you improved the NHS.
            For FS telemachus, Labour wrecked everything this country ever had.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Ha ha! “News and debate from the progressive community”.

            Propaganda and self-delusion. You and they missed out the bit about doctoring the criteria to lower the standards.

          • girondas2

            Iraq telemachus
            Th stench clings to you – you’ll never be free of it.

          • Alexsandr

            universities have had to have basic numeracy and literacy courses for undergraduates and businesses have had trouble getting staff with basic skills. All your numbers show is we have dumbed down our education to make it fail our kids.

          • Conway

            So why, then, have studies found that, uniquely, British over 50s are better educated than current school leavers? Edukation, edukashun, edjukashun.

        • Alexsandr

          this little bit of the electorate hasnt forgotten the godawful mess labour made in the Wilson and Callahan years. They have a long history of bad government.

          • Conway

            Even farther back than that; Attlee managed to put bread on ration, something that never even happened between 1939 and 1945! Some achievement, that!

      • Holly

        No you haven’t.
        Neither has Labour.

      • Colonel Mustard

        You might have moved on but we have not forgotten.

        • Holly

          The problem for the new shiny Labour leader is,
          they have ‘moved on’ in a progressively backwards fashion.

          • Conway

            As dok says, this time, unlike on some of the other occasions, there won’t be a full Treasury for Labour to waste on its social engineering madness. IMF, here we come in short order!

      • davidofkent

        No, I don’t think Labour has moved on. Only the other day, Ed Miliband was talking about a form of part-nationalisation of some rail networks. The difference next time, if he wins in 2015, is that Labour will not have a strongly-growing economy to ravage for money to spend on its clients.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        No you just keep on lying.

    • Kitty MLB

      Holly, he’s an unprincipled usurper and a dark eyed political
      vulture.One that was bounced upon the knee of Ken Livingstone and Karl Marx.

      • Holly

        With all the shenanigans of late, should your last sentence be reported?
        Maybe even back then Miliband spoke out of his @rse, and it was his head that took the bouncing?
        Tee hee.

        • Kitty MLB

          Ooops! I meant quite innocently bounced upon
          the knee as a baby. That was where the brainwashing began.Lefties start early with
          their sinister manipulating of young minds.

          • Holly

            I know. I meant that Livingstone/Marx even back then, could not tell whether Miliband was upside down or not…..
            The s**t Miliband spouts continues to this day.

          • telemachus

            It is no coincidence that the Jesuits are Socialist ( Give me a child until he is seven, and I will show you the man)

            • girondas2

              Iraq, Iraq
              When are you going to apologise for all those deaths telemachus? Lives thrown away by you and your gang.

              • telemachus

                Read Hoodwinked
                It was a CIA lies inspired war
                For all of us who, thanks to these whistle-blowers, now realize that we have been hoodwinked and want to understand exactly how, national security analyst John Prados has compiled and annotated the key source documents behind the selling of the Iraq war to the American public. As these CIA reports, Pentagon briefings, and other materials clearly show, Bush and his spokespeople were playing a crude game of three-card monte, claiming Iraqi ties to Al Qaeda, weapons of mass destruction, and imminent threats, which are here exposed as half-truths, exaggerations, and outright fabrications of a warmongering administration.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Typical Labour. It is always someone else’s fault. Blair trailed Bush like a puppy but was somehow not responsible for carrying a sovereign nation to war. All those in the Labour party who supported war and now sit on the opposition front bench were duped by perfidious Washington.

                  Do you really believe the twaddle you peddle here that your party is devoid of any wrongdoing and has some sort of divine right to rule over us?

                • Tom Allalone

                  Pathetic. It was obvious to anyone not blinded by tribalism and personality cults that Blair was lying through his teeth. An ex-military mate of mine put it best – if Saddam really did have WMD that he could launch at 45 minutes notice and hit Cyprus do you really think we’d have risked attacking him? Mummy, mummy a big boy told lies and ran away. Still if Labour get uin next ime round maybe they’ll give you a job helping alterthe past – Oceania is at war with Eastasia, Oceania has aklways been a war with Eastasia

                • telemachus

                  Tony Blair did not knowingly lie about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction in the build-up to war, according to the BBC’s political editor Nick Robinson.

                  Speaking at The Times Cheltenham Literature Festival, Mr Robinson said he expected his view that Mr Blair really believed Iraq had WMD to draw boos from the 1,500-strong audience.

                  He said: “I don’t think Tony Blair lied. He absolutely believed it.”

                  There were no boos.

                  http://www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/Blair-did-knowingly-lie-Iraq-s-WMD-says-BBC-s/story-19926116-detail/story.html#ixzz37uRnf3Nh

                • saffrin

                  Oh right, that explains why Tony Bliar had Dr Kelly killed.

                • Wessex Man

                  You are so correct it was the UK government’s lying report they used as an excuse to invade, Politicians of all poltical shades at the knew it was garbage but still backed Blair with a very few notable exceptions. The Labour Party? War Mongers one and all!

                • Alexsandr

                  so blair did it as he was the lap dog of the americans then. what did bush have on him to make him do this?

                • girondas2

                  “It was a CIA lies inspired war”

                  It wasn’t the CIA that stood up in the House of Commons and lied through it’s slimy teeth. It wasn’t the CIA that voted to send British troops to fight and die in Iraq.
                  It was your gang that did that.
                  Just for once accept responsibility for your actions, you disgusting old man.

                • Erictheowl

                  So what you are saying is – a big boy done it and run away?

            • Holly

              Resulting in Miliband.

      • Alexsandr

        and his england hating marxist father.,

  • Holly

    Do we all now ignore the stuff shadow Labour cabinet members have been saying for the last four years?…
    Scrapping the bedroom subsidy/welfare reforms to benefits, the NHS reforms, buying a big train set, etc,etc,etc.
    Does Miliband really expecting the public to believe that even though Labour always wreck the economy, (even more so during Miliband & Balls time in office) this time will be different?

    Will those who have broken free from the iron grip of state dependency really vote to go back to being kept in poverty by the dead hand of Labour?

    Looking forward to telemachus’s ‘insightful’ take on this pack of twaddle.

    • telemachus

      Read the excerpts
      The goal is to abolish inequality

      • Holly

        Which is exactly what the Labour government, in which Miliband, Balls, Coop, Burnham & Co served, achieved….
        Everyone got worse off.

        • telemachus

          I counsel you to watch the conference
          The atmosphere is electric here
          Tom Watson stuck it into James Murdoch

          • Holly

            Poking needles in my eyes as I type.

            • fundamentallyflawed

              That must make the typing more difficult

              • Holly

                A damned site easier than watching a Labour conference though.

          • Holly

            Your last sentence SHOULD be reported to the police!

          • Colonel Mustard

            Of course it is. You are just a quasi-religious cult full of your own importance and false presumed relevance, blind to reality. The atmosphere was also electric when Kinnochio proclaimed “We’re awwwwwwwlright!”.

            You are a tribe, chanting. The conference is a hyped up war dance. You are the Borg. The Lieborg. You think that what you want is all that matters.

          • Alexsandr

            so the labour muppets can get a room of a few thousand people would up to clap and cheer anything. well done.
            the hard part is getting people to put a cross by Labour in May 2015 in their millions. Not quite the same thing.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            And Rupert Murdoch told that fat sack of Sh@t to get lost.

      • saffrin

        But not everyone wants to be on the unemployment list telemachus.
        Which is what will happen if your lot ever get in again.

      • Colonel Mustard

        You will never abolish inequality. It is a chimera. And the attempt brings misery, complexity and unintended consequences. In fact the flaw is evident in the very use of the word “abolish” as though that nincompoop actually has control over the lives and interactive activities of 65 million.

        It is time for British governments of all colours to drop the pretence that they are somehow like the board of a corporate Britain, directing and managing us as employees bent to their whim. We want governments to run the country not us. So far they have offered spectacular failure in that department whilst agonising over the minutiae of our lives.

        • David B

          Tele means make everyone dependant on the state, there will be no relative poverty because everyone will be poor. Except for the ruling class of course!

          The fact this failed before does not matter to him!

    • Conway

      I think they are relying on the fact that when you rob Peter to pay Paul you can always rely on Paul’s vote.

  • alabenn

    Miliband’s message: I’m neither New Labour nor Old Labour
    True, he is a typical socialist who will pretend he is anything that pushes his chances of winning the election.
    After that he will be the monkey for Old Labour union organ grinders.

    • telemachus

      See my excerpts from the speech
      ‘Crafted for the age we are living in’
      McClusky down not have relevance to this age

      • Andy

        Nor do you, so sod off !

        • Inverted Meniscus

          Stop being so polite to that scumbag.

          • Andy

            Sorry.

    • Alexsandr

      not old labour, not new labour but Unite. We all know who is paymasters are.

  • telemachus

    A taster folks

    “We have moved on from New Labour. And we are not going back to old Labour. Instead, our programme for Government is more radical and more ambitious in the change we seek, crafted for the age we are living in and the challenges we face.”

    “We did great things in Government to redistribute resources. But we did not do enough to reduce inequality, or eliminate the problem of low pay, or build an economy that will work for the next generation. And the reason is that we did not do enough to change the fundamentals of our economy. That is what this programme and the next Government will do.”

    “Moving on from a time when rising inequality was just a fact of life – or when we acted as if there is nothing we could do about markets that aren’t fair or aren’t working. Not seeing big spending as the answer. Not going back to make do and mend.”

    “You and I know we won’t have the money. For all of the cuts, for all of the pain under this Government, Britain still has a deficit to deal with and a debt to pay down. That’s why our programme starts with a binding commitment to balancing the books in the next government. We will get the national debt falling as soon as possible in the next parliament. And we will deliver a surplus on the current budget.”

    • alabenn

      We will get the national debt falling
      By raising the debt mountain to ever higher peaks.

      • telemachus

        We need to ensure capital investment

        • Andy

          We need to restore Capital Punishment.

          • telemachus

            I think not
            Everyone can be re-educated
            That is why, not referenced today, there is talk of a new Gulag

            • Holly

              I agree.
              That is why those who have been ‘re-educated’ to the world of work(over a million to date) will do all in their power not to become state dependent ever again.

            • Colonel Mustard

              Well, I hope the journalists of our day challenge Miliband and his has-beens about what, precisely, you mean by:-

              “That is why, not referenced today, there is talk of a new Gulag”

              Do you think that is droll? 15-30 million deaths and untold misery inflicted on millions more by the sort of political cant you espouse?

              You are disgusting. Foul. Vile.

            • Alexsandr

              ‘Everyone can be re-educated’ -with electrodes attached to their private parts

        • David B

          Brown, Balls and Miliband defended ever thin as investment. In the end it turned out to be waste.

          Tele the definition of stupidity is keeping repeating the same mistake.

          Stupidity seems to be Milibamd, Balls and your mantra

    • Kitty MLB

      I know that unlike the decent and principled people who
      post here (those you drive up the wall on purpose)
      that I don’t swallow the bait from you stygian hue lips
      but even I struggle with the utter shame faced, unprincipled
      hypocrisy of this.

      • telemachus

        This is from Ed’s text and is the blueprint for your new government next May

        • Kitty MLB

          Hades will freeze over and the four horsemen
          of the apocalypse will ride across the sky before
          we are benighted with Labour again.

          Never will we give the matches back to those who created our economic firestorm and destroyed the foundations of this ancient land.
          Labour deserves nothing but oblivion and her
          traditional core voters, those who will never vote
          for my party have UKIP now…purple being the
          new red.

          • Holly

            The four horsemen did their job in 2003.
            Blair, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld.

            • fundamentallyflawed

              Not new labour or old labour? So NEW NEW Labour then. “We did great things in Government to redistribute resources” – yep to themselves and their connections.

              “to change the fundamentals of our economy.” from capitalist to state controlled.

              ” we won’t have the money.” by WE he means YOU.. Labour and their Metro supporters will be well looked after

              ” we will deliver a surplus on the current budget/For all of the cuts…under this government” – so you will balance spending, but not cut, and deliver surplus… Can i have the secret so I can earn less, spend more and have money left over

              • Alexsandr

                ‘Can i have the secret so I can earn less, spend more and have money left over’ you steal it. like the government do with taxes.

          • Conway

            Quite a few traditional core voters who used to vote for your party have UKIP now, too – not to mention lots of people who had given up voting or not bothered. The future is bright, the future is purple!

    • Andy

      Miliband bullshit.

    • Holly

      ‘Crafted for the age we are living in’..
      So while screaming for ‘freedoms’ from one face, while at the same time, screaming about controlling, power, pay, who individuals can lend from, schools, land, rents, and welfare, from the other face.
      Makes perfect sense????

    • Colonel Mustard

      Translation:-

      “We have re-invented ourselves, yet again. We have airbrushed out our past. Our mistakes and crimes are redacted.

      “We are marxists bent on subversive cultural revolution by stealth. This time we will be more extreme than ever before, whilst pretending not to be.

      “Our sacred cows and false idols will remain the same.”

      “We will interfere in and impede aspiration, enterprise and wealth creation, in ways that no-one, not even previous incarnations of soviet-inspired Labour in the dark, drab, hopeless days of the 1970s. interfered in and impeded.

      “But we won’t be profligate with other peoples money this time. Believe me. Trust me. All these things we want to do will be paid for from the Magic Money Tree. One nation, one people, one leader! Hail victory!”

    • Makroon

      Ha-ha, even old Solomon Binding is riding again !

  • David B

    Balls and by extension Miliband do not believe they over spent and created a structural deficit during their time in office. They will therefore never understand nor accept the need for spending control.

    Any hint in the speech at spending restraint should be seen in the context of Harmon’s statement on middle class tax and the need to pay more tax for more public services, whether we need them or not.

    The speech will also, no doubt, refer to borrowing for investment purposes. Brown and Balls defined everything as investment from increasing wages to buying flowers for the offices. That’s their get out of jail free clause – everything will be investment!!

    • telemachus

      Read the reality of life within society as set out in my post

      • David B

        In your job as a professional troll employed by the Labour Party you don’t have a clue about the realities of life

        • telemachus

          I contribute
          I do not receive from our great movement

          • Andy

            You are a Fascist Troll and ought to be hanged as a Traitor.

          • David B

            Of course not

          • Holly

            Which is somewhat of a miracle.
            You are indeed unique telemachus.

    • Andy

      These Fascist Labour morons do not understand the meaning of the word ‘investment’. The Fascist Labour Party has been the greatest catastrophe to befall our great nation. All Socialists are evil.

      • pointlesswasteoftime

        “All Socialists are evil.” Crass generalisation and exposes the vacuity of thinking here.

        • Colonel Mustard

          “…exposes the vacuity of thinking here.”

          Also a generalisation. All socialists are hypocrites.

          • pointlesswasteoftime

            How a generalisation? I did not say all posts were vacuous. There are some that are thoughtful, though not on this particular thread.

            Your’s is not one of the thoughtful…. so thanks for making my point for me.

            • Alexsandr

              I think CM has a point. They lie their way into power because they regard the democratic system as a nuisance. The gerrymander with fraudulent postal votes, and unequal constituencies. They are economically incompetent and their administration is not much better. They seek to control our lives in more and more ways. They are in hock the the unions . That do for a start? If you had been looking at comments here for some time you would know this. but you are newbie troll. You must be standing in for Telemachus. Now run along and play with your lego.

              • pointlesswasteoftime

                Alexansandr: when will you learn that patronising people is no way to win an argument? It just makes you look like an arrogant twit. I put that down to poor education and parenting I suppose.

                And your arguments apply as much to the right as to the left, just substitute corporations/big business lobbyists for unions and you’re there. Do you think the Tories would not have gerrymandered if the Libs had allowed it?

                Our whole constitutional/parliamentary system is flawed (seriously) and we get no consistency or long term thinking and each side thinks only of its own short term (five year) political advantage.

                I’ve been here long enough to not consider myself a newbie, to know there’s no point in reading telemachus (unless he directly references a link) because you know in advance what he is going to say (more or less – why do you lot fall for it?) and I would guess you define a “troll” as anyone who dares question your viewpoint. It’s all rather sad, really.

                • Alexsandr

                  your blatant cronyism of labour deserved the barbed comment. I dont hold a candle for any politicians or party, so am free thinking instead of your blinkered tribal view

                  I fail to see how Camerons move to make constituencies have equal voters could be described as gerrymandering. It seems quite fair that each vote should carry equal weight.

                • pointlesswasteoftime

                  Please point me to my “blatant cronyism of labour”. You can infer it, if you want to, but I have not stated who I support, just the train of thought I object to.

                  And if each vote should carry equal weight, let’s have PR.

                  And no, Cameron would have twisted boundary borders to suit his own purposes as much as you think Labour has done.

              • Conway

                No wonder they are so keen on the EU, it’s the embodiment of all their aspirations.

            • Colonel Mustard

              “…exposes the vacuity of thinking here.”

              Not “exposes the vacuity of SOME thinking here”. Ergo your inference is that all thinking here is vacuous. A generalisation reinforced by your use of the word “exposes” rather than “suggests”.

              I thought about that carefully.

              • pointlesswasteoftime

                Actually, you are correct…. I should have made it clear I was speaking about this thread, not the Spectator in general, and not everybody about everything (although some commenters are remarkably consistent – see my reply to Alexsandr re telemachus). So yes, I should have qualified it with a “some” – but I’ll stick with exposes, thanks.

              • Wessex Man

                Colonel, I believe you are arguing with the halfwit telemachus in one of his other monikers.

                • pointlesswasteoftime

                  Wrong.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  But you are a gibberish spouting socialist nutter laddie whether or not you are another Telemachus sock puppet.

                • pointlesswasteoftime

                  Examples please of me spouting socialism, gibbering, or being a nutter. All I’ve done is taken issue with the statement that “All socialists are evil”. And you have no idea whether I’m a “laddie” or a lady.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  I can’t quote your every word laddie, there isn’t time, but it’s all socialist nutter gibberish.

                • Conway

                  At least this incarnation is well named.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          No they are all scum every last one of them laddie. They never stop lying and they never stop spending other people’s money and they never stop murdering people. Care to guess how many people died during the 20th century under a variety of socialist regimes?

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