Coffee House

How did paedophilia come to be such a problem in Britain?

7 July 2014

8:53 AM

7 July 2014

8:53 AM

One problem from which I am confident I don’t suffer is paedophilia. I have always liked picking up babies and hugging them, especially my own children or grandchildren, but never in the ‘Rolfie deserves a cuddle’ kind of way. The idea of sexually lusting after children seems to me not only abhorrent but almost unimaginable. If anything is against nature, it must be to regard children as sexual objects.

I have always known of course, that paedophiles exist. I was aware of it when, as an eight-year-old, I went to a prep school in Berkshire where the headmaster would snog the prettiest boys (alas, not me) in their dormitory beds and where the violin teacher had a habit of placing his hand on my thigh. But this was fairly innocuous stuff, and only later did I learn that some paedophiles have urges so strong that they will not or cannot keep them within tolerable bounds.

Accordingly, parental panic about paedophilia has sometimes brought about controversial responses such as ‘Megan’s Law’ in the United States, which decreed that the identities of convicted sexual offenders should be made known to their neighbours, and such as Rebekah Brooks’s copycat campaign in the News of the World for the ‘naming and shaming’ of such people in Britain. But neither had any perceptible effect on the amount of sex offending that went on, and even Brooks herself later admitted that her campaign ‘could have been done better’ and that it had ‘carried risks of vigilantism’.

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In addition to all that, we all became aware in recent years of the many cases of the sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests and of the shock that this created within the Church (possibly, in my opinion, being a significant factor in the abdication of Pope Benedict XVI, who in his previous Vatican job as Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith had to read all the revolting dossiers on this scandal pouring in from around the world). Nevertheless, despite everything, I had continued to regard paedophilia as something that didn’t affect most people, a perversion confined to an unfortunate few, and an evil that was at least limited in its effects.

Now, for heaven’s sake, it doesn’t seem like that at all. After the tsunami of allegations against entertainers, politicians, and people in every walk of life – allegations that in some cases have already proved fully justified – it has come to seem that paedophilia is a condition shared by vast numbers of men and that those who do not suffer from it may just be a lucky few.
There have been efforts in the past, especially through the Paedophile Information Exchange, to make paedophilia respectable, the PIE’s stated aim having been ‘to alleviate [the] suffering of many adults and children’ by campaigning to abolish the age of consent and to legalise sex between them. But the PIE wound up in 1984, and its campaign was not a success. Sex between adults and children seems to remain the one form of sexual activity that society is not prepared to tolerate, and we can only be grateful for that.

If there were ever any chance that people might come round to it (and there surely never was much), it will have been killed decisively by the sheer horror of the revelations about Jimmy Savile, especially his ruthless abuse of disadvantaged and mentally damaged children in the medical institutions he patronised. It would obviously be grotesque for anyone to argue that what he got up to could have ‘alleviated the suffering’ of anyone except, conceivably, of himself.

One might perhaps have some tiny feeling of sympathy for Savile, with his fixation on his weird, heartless, domineering mother with whom he yearned for intimacy. One might even feel sympathy for Rolf Harris, covering up depression and emotional coldness with a ghastly false bonhomie. One might even feel sorry for Cyril Smith for having been so fat. But none of these drawbacks could ever begin to excuse their behaviour towards children. There are circumstances in which even murder may be forgiven, but when it comes to child abuse, a line is quite rightly drawn. If there is one good thing to have come out of all this, it is a strengthening of the public’s conviction that the innocence of children must be protected at any price. Meanwhile, one feels very smug not to be a paedophile.

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Show comments
  • george

    Paedophilia against nature lol, but homosexuality OK haha!

  • For Nonviolence

    There appears to be a high prevalence of such attractions in the male population. Below are two posters by Professor Tromovitch which summarise scientific studies on this topic:

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44284820/Prevalence%20-%20Trom%201.JPG

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44284820/Prevalence%20-%20Trom%202.JPG

  • beenzrgud

    Paedophiles don’t just exist in the UK, they are a problem everywhere. I doubt that as a % of the population there are any more paedophiles in the UK than anywhere else. What I do find encouraging is that we appear to be taking a more pro-active approach to uncovering their activities. Since they are very good at hiding themselves in the community and also hiding their activities they are difficult to detect. I suppose another way of looking at it is that we appear to be more reluctant to sweep the issue under the carpet, which can only be a good thing.

  • Amir

    Check this article out about the child abuse inquiry:

    http://www.casualpolitics.co.uk/2014/07/what-child-abuse-cover-up-reveals/

  • SuffolkBoy

    “How did paedophilia come to be such a problem in Britain?” The £50,000 compensation tariff, historical allegations, no questions asked, no risk of a prosecution for perjury, the desire for witch-hunts, smearing political opponents, decline in newspaper sales, social networking groups like “Survivors of XYZ” or “One-in-four”, bogus therapists and the widening of the definition have come together and created the perfect conditions for the NSPCC to make a fortune on the lastest fad scare.

  • Liz

    “Savile, with his fixation on his weird, heartless, domineering mother with whom he yearned for intimacy.”

    Might have known a man’s behaviour and choices would ultimately be a woman’s responsibility.

    How do you know she was weird, heartless or domineering? What’s the source of that information?

    And what about his father? What was his role in producing his son’s personality?

    • Gwangi

      Did you watch Louis Theroux’s documentary, darling? If not, stop being a paranoid tribal feminist nut-bucket and start using your brain, even if it may be hysterical…

  • Liz

    I suspect animals and plants that reproduce s*xually have evolved to be s*xually indiscriminate. An animal that can get aroused by balloons is capable of anything. If all goes well in a person’s socialisation they never discover this about themselves.

    The problem men had in our past and still have in large numbers is consent. You can’t be an active paedophile or a groper, r*pist, animal abuser, p*rn or pr*stitute-user if you believe in consent with all its legal and ethical ramifications.

    In each culture, the reasons for maintaining lower castes of people with limited rights of consent and higher castes with limited accountability, are different; in Britain it’s a paternalism born of colonialism. Expect increasing numbers of exposės as that culture is dismantled in the coming century.

    • Gwangi

      Listen love – it is PEOPLE who behave badly and in an immoral way, and men do that no more than women.
      Men probably get caught and punished more, however…

      By the way, it looks the opposite of clever to regurgitate what you learnt on that summer school women’s studies course at the university of nonsense (opposite where the university of common sense used to be).

      You are equating the raping of a child with a man watching pawn in your absurd post. Too stupid to even be offensive – your whole argument collapses like a femi-blancmange when you spout such piffle.

      Admit it, you hate men. Now, I wonder what issues in YOUR history and psyche are causing that eh?

  • Liz

    It’s a problem in other countries too. But they lack the British press.

    • Gwangi

      Oh but I though feminutsies like you claimed the British press were a tool of the patriarchy and their aim is to oppress women and abuse them with page 3 and BLAH BLAH BLAH…

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    “How did paedophilia come to be such a problem in Britain?”Tough question. As a suggestion, because this evil is more prevalent in the upper stratum of male society, may I suggest that single-sex boarding (independent) schools would be a good place to start the investigation. Many state there is little or no connection between homosexuality and paedophelia. I beg to differ. For literally hundreds of years homosexuality was known as the “English disease”. As homosexuality is no longer illegal, perhaps it has transmuted into paedophelia to give the ultimate thrill.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Well, if homosexuality was known as the English disease for hundreds of years that can hardly be the fault of the public schools. Anyway, Catholic schools run by Christian Brothers would be a far greater danger to your son’s virginity I would have thought. Or Borstals. It was not unknown at my Scottish day school. Perhaps Scots have greater inclinations that way. .

      • Christopher Lennon

        I attended schools run by Christian Brothers in England between 1952 and 1964 and in all that time I neither experienced, nor did I become aware of, any case of sexual abuse by a CB. Just for the record.

        • Fergus Pickering

          I believe you. Ditto Public Schools I am sure.

          • Christopher Lennon

            I cannot vouch for any other school, but the one I attended and that I do.

  • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Fenton!

    Why do you imagine that the pope of the time abdicated because he hated what he was reading? I assume you imagine this since you don’t present it as fact. The man was serving his God, after all. Presumably he knew that the job of serving God required facing down the evils man commit.

  • Tinderbox

    Liberal soccer moms and single women are the most enthusiastic straight supporters of the burgeoning gay rights movement in the U.S., trying to equate it with civil rights struggles of the 1960’s. Little do they know the ultimate purpose of what they’ve been recruited for is the eventual legalization and normalization of pederasty.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Pederasty is perfectly normal (see Ancient Greece). It is however illegal and rightly so.

  • Mr Starter

    How did paedophilia come to be such a
    problem in Britain?
    By stretching the definition of paedophilia to breaking point

    • Gwangi

      Yes, so much so that we have the new term ‘children’s doctor’ used by paediatricians – for fear that the local ‘mums army’ (who dress their young kids like hores and pay for their pole dancing lessons) will screech and scream abuse from their fat pizza-guzzling gobs, and then get their thick menfolk to attack those they have branded as the dreaded paedophiles… such as paediatricians…

      (I mean what was wrong with the good old British phrase child molester eh? Bloody Americanese…)

  • Bonkim

    Suppressed sexuality and cowards exercising power I suppose and manifestation of self doubt and multiple failure.

  • Daniel C. Thompson

    The problem is that we tend to pretend that paedophiles don’t exist, then abuse is uncovered, we all go mental, and then forget about it soon after. We need to recognize as a society that paedophiles exist, and we need to help them to not offend. In other words, prevention. I remember reading an article about a young guy who realised he was a paedophile and reached out for help, because he did not want to hurt anybody.

    Also, we tend to cast them as monsters, and indeed some are guilty of monstrous crimes. The problem is that this blinds us to the fact that much of the abuse that goes on is committed by family members or friends. People we trust.

    I am in no way belittling the suffering of the victims or excusing the abusers. Only calling for a more rational approach. Because the one we have now is not good enough.

    • Liz

      Witches don’t exist and s*x offenders are frequently compared to them.

      • Gwangi

        Most child abuse – violent and emotional – is done by women. Most children and babies who are killed are killed by women. Are they witches too?
        And most secksual child abuse is done at home often in single mum families where mummy has multiple boyfriends – which is always praised by feminists because it is ‘giving women choices and independence’.
        For feminists, women’s selfishness trumps children’s welfare and wellbeing. Always.
        There is always the convenient femi-lie-fact of patriarchy which states that even when women do bad things it is men’s fault because they created society and so they are to blame even if mothers suffocate their own children.
        The facts are worth repeating.

      • Fergus Pickering

        How do you know witches don’t exist. Of course they do.

        • Kitty MLB

          When some small children in the village realised
          I had flittermice in my attic they asked if I were
          a witch.. at that point the neighbours black cat
          wandered into the cottage….you should have
          seen their faces.
          I understand you can get White Witches whatever they’re meant to be. One of the Tea
          Party ladies in the US happens to be one.

          • Fergus Pickering

            There are nice witches and there are nasty witches.

  • Mike Barnes

    “If anything is against nature, it must be to regard children as sexual objects.”

    Really? Plenty of animals rape sexually immature juveniles, including our closest ape relatives. There must be some reason it happens in nature although I have no idea.

    • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Fenton!

      Evidence? As for chimps and bonobos: they are the least attractive of our so-called relatives: gorillas and orangs are far more appealing, both physically and in their group behaviours. If you can’t have morality, at least have the gentleness and handsomeness of a gorilla!

  • Simon Fay

    “How did paedophilia come to be such a problem in Britain?”

    It wasn’t really deemed “a problem” until Westminster’s cabal and their bodyguards started to feel a bit of heat in the last week or so. Now that problem will become an “issue” to be managed, along with public perception.

  • Gandhian
    • Simon Fay

      The commenter PaperCut 100 seems to be a paedo advocate.

  • LB

    One might perhaps have some tiny feeling of sympathy for Savile, with his fixation on his weird, heartless, domineering mother with whom he yearned for intimacy

    =========

    Wouldn’t surprise me if he was shagging her. He was shagging everything else, alive or dead.

  • Amir

    Read this article about the child abuse cover up:

    http://www.casualpolitics.co.uk/2014/07/what-child-abuse-cover-up-reveals/

  • Streben80

    I dont sense that it is any worse than it has ever been, we are just more aware of historic cases as they come to light.
    I suffered a serious sexual assault by a very warped teenage girl under the ‘care’ of social services when I was 8 and that was in the 80’s, I can imagine the headlines now, the details are quite lurid, but I dont really think the problem has become worse, it is simply the nature of human beings that some step over the lines that most dont cross.
    Interestingly there exists no clear path for someone with these urges who has not offended to seek help – only someone who actually hurts a child can expect to be offered help. What a messed up world.

    • Roger Hudson

      Girls have to be ‘warped’ by somebody else before.
      Children’s homes send 2% to university, 50% get any GCSEs but they provide a very large percentage of the native prostitutes and rent-boys.

      • Fergus Pickering

        Well of course they do. And what do you conclude from that? Don’t get put in a children’s home, perhaps.

  • Shorne

    “A report for the children’s commissioner in 2012 found there were 1,514 perpetrators. Of these, 545 were white, 415 were Asian and 244 were black. The ethnicity of 21% of perpetrators was not recorded. Attempts to analyse the Asian figure further runs into problems. Just 35 of the 415 Asians are recorded as having Pakistani heritage and thus highly likely to be Muslim, and only five are recorded as being from a Bangladeshi background.
    Meanwhile, group grooming is a small part of the sexual abuse threat facing Britain’s children. Some of those working in protecting children from sexual abuse worry that the wrong message is being given about who poses dangers to children from the media coverage of “Asian grooming gangs”.
    They say the biggest dangers are not just on the street, but online, and the totality of abuse shows far more white people are perpetrators.”
    But this doesn’t appeal to the tabloid press and those who get their ‘facts’ from it.
    I was a Probation Officer for 30 years, the last 13 of which I worked full time in a prison on the Wing where the Vulnerable Prisoners, including paedophiles were held. The prisons catchment area was very multinational and white offenders greatly outnumbered the black and Asian ones.

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      The prisons catchment area was very multinational and white offenders greatly outnumbered the black and Asian ones.

      In line with population perhaps?

      The black and white figures may be true but taken in context and percent of population you know there is a very different picture…and even if that were not the case previously then you know that with grooming cases in dozens of towns and cities the picture will be changing.

      • Shorne

        By ‘multi-national’ I meant a high proportion of black and Asian residents. I do not ‘know’ (and I would like to see your evidence) that the picture is changing beyond the fact that the Muslim Women’s Network UK has brought attention to the fact that gangs targeting Muslim children is being ignored.

  • Terence Hale

    Hi,
    Pedophilia is a medical disorder, some say as I an illness as homosexuality. Mrs May with her “finger in the dike” to stop the sin flood made a bad impression. We have a problem.

    • the_ex-expat

      “an illness as homosexuality”. Homosexuality is not an illness.

  • Gwangi

    Silly title. Paedophilia is no more a problem in Britain than anywhere else.
    One also has to take care with words; strictly, paedophilia is the state of being attracted the pre-pubertal children, not abuse or action of any kind, or attraction to ‘children’ after puberty starts.

    The really sad thing about the present hysteria – which in my view is due to the feminisation of society and the media (hysterical worrying is very much a mother’s trait) – is that it will make parents (esp mothers) overprotect their children even more – and not let them out alone to take risks and hurt themselves – and THAT is a the terrible legacy of all this. As it is, children is the most endangered species in our countryside. Caged up kids getting obese and being infantilised is deeply unhealthy psychologically speaking.

    And of course, it is not strangers who abuse children – but parents, and extended family and other children and youngsters (one third of secksual abuse there). if you want to protect children, stop encouraging single mother families to form – because men get access to kids to abuse that way far too often these days. Step parents and 5 times more likely to abuse kids than blood parents. Fact.

    And let’s stop demonising men. Most child abuse is actually done by women – violent and emotional – and in many secksual abuse cases women are enablers. Most children who are killed are killed by women too. The truth is worth repeating in these misandirst femi-nut times.

    • suzy61

      Gwangi, as a mother of three (grown up) children I suspect there is a lot of truth in what you say. My two sons, the eldest especially, were given lots of freedom but my youngest, a daughter, was restricted much more – to be honest, more from fear of being judged a bad mother than anything else. In the end my fear of her losing her social skills and spending endless nights on her computer made me relent and I gave her more liberty – just enough that I thought she could cope with (but this was still much more than the ‘mumsnet’ brigade would have sanctioned). It turned out good for me – my beautiful girl is intelligent enough to know I took a risk and she is grateful for it – but it could have gone so horribly wrong. A mother has to be exceptionally brave to follow her instincts nowadays.I always believed that if you give your child responsibility they will gladly take it and act accordingly. Sadly, there are many who feel you should never give them that opportunity.

      • Gwangi

        I agree absolutely with your post.
        Keeping children encaged and not allowing them to go out and take risks and yes, be exposed to possible dangers and threats, is actually child abuse.

        I notice how awful are the UK figures for children of early secondary school injured or killed on the roads. Why is this? Well, because so many children of younger ages are infantilised and not allowed out until they are teenagers but then have zero experience of crossing roads (I remember walking part way home from school aged 8 in the 70s, by contrast). Kids today are infantilised – and so immature compared to my generation. They have more access to drugs, secksual imagery etc. But mentally they are far less mature.
        Apparently psychologists say that 25 is the new 18 – kids now do not reach the mental maturity my generation had at 18 until their mid-20s. 16 year olds now seem infantilised too – despite the adult stuff they are exposed too. That comes from over-protection by paranoid child-worshipping parents, and the creation of what can lonely be described as a ‘kidocracy’ where children are worshipped (but never let outside, thereby causing allergies and asthma and mental issues) all because of the fake cult of ‘self-esteem’!

        Also, the rate of child abductions is tiny and has not changed since records began over 50 years ago, Around 5 children are abducted and killed every year – that figure has not changed. It is RARE! Not a common occurrence – despite what the scaremongering ratings-hungry media promotes as the reality. Just tell kids never to go off with strangers and the SET THEM FREE! We have a Kunte Kinte generation of obese computer-blanketed slave children now. Sad and storing up huge psychological issues for their futures.

        Let us not forget that the most dangerous place for a child is its home and those most likely to abuse and harm it are within that home – parents, step-parents, relatives, trusted family friends…

    • Fergus Pickering

      Many prepubertal children are attractive,as the advertising world know very well.I do not say sexually attractive, but attractive, as religious art knows also…

      • Gwangi

        Yep, but we are so hysterical these days that a man dare not say that a particular child is good-looking – even fathers are nervous of touching their own children in public. That is how perverse our obsession with paedos is now.
        Women of course can do that. Therefore, this whole thing is an exercise in institutional misandry – encouraged by manhating feminuts who would love to make owning a willy illegal, I think!

        • Fergus Pickering

          Yes. That is indeed perverse. Nearly twenty years ago I was kissed in a swimming bath by a marvelllously beautiful eleven-year-old girl, who is now a beautiful thirty-year-old woman. ‘I love you,’ she said. ‘I’d like to marry you.’ How did I feel? I felt good. Mind you.she did add, ‘If you weren’t so old.’

          • Gwangi

            Expect an early morning knock at the door by pc plod in the not too distant future. Didn’t you know talking to children is illegal for anyone over 18 who possesses a pe-nis?

            • Fergus Pickering

              Difficult not to talk to your daughter’s best friend. She’s thirty. Can I talk to her now?

  • GraveDave

    What about M/J , for him it was called the ‘Peter Pan’ Syndrome. Meaning he just saw children as little friends. But I don’t believe it because in two cases there was alcohol and magazines’ involved .There were also random allegations from certain of these little friends of his though that could have been just them seeking pecuniary advantage.

    Btw Mod, will you tell me wtf your problem is with me? I’ve just had to rewrite this three times. And it appears I was right. You really are a fan of ‘Mr Moonwalker’.

    You’re a mug.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Who is M/J?

      • GraveDave

        The late ‘black’ singing superstar , now dead. Oddly the mods would not allow me to use his name on a blog about paedophilia.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Oh,. Michael Jackson you mean. Now he really WAS odd. And rather pitiful I always thought.

  • @PhilKean1

    .
    Yes, how did paedophilia become such an obsession in Britain?

    I mean, I happen to think that pre-pubescent bodies are sickeningly ugly. But that’s just me.

    (1) – Anyway, we know the police love working on paedophilia cases – for reasons that we had better not explore.

    (2) – Neanderthals fear being labelled “paedophile” and so are zealous and demonstrative in their attempts to attack those who they are.

    (3) – And mums find the current paranoia with paedophilia a convenient way to keep men’s hands of their daughters for as long as possible.

    That said, anyone who DOES happen to be a paedophile in the true definition – (many are labelled as such who are not) is treated differently from other people who have mental problems. Why? I have not a clue. But it seems that vilification and vengeance is what society prescribes for them, not help.
    .

    • Liberty

      ‘Sickening ugly’ is the other extreme; parents can love their children’s bodies and want to hug them but not in a sexual way.

    • Roger Hudson

      Stop writing ‘paedophile’, your daughters are rarely in danger, the main problem has been establishment ‘pederasty’, men after boys.
      Alexander just wrote it, prep-school and bent teachers.
      So the boarding schools, the Churches, Oxbridge,the BBC, guardsmen and Westminster are all places where the preference is not girls but boys.
      The politicians will deflect with the DJs who were never core establishment but the main ‘elephant in the room’ ( oxbridge pre-WW1? reference) is pederasty and homosexual abuse and that upsets the whole agenda, the whole moral slide , promoted by ‘liberals’ like ‘Woy Jenkins’ and his chums.

      • @PhilKean1

        .
        Yes, no accident that a Parliament stuffed with a disproportionately large number of homosexual MPs decide to remove the protection 16 and 17 year-old boys enjoyed from being prayed upon by perverted men.
        .

        • Michael H Kenyon

          Interestingly, I made the same points and the moderators found it sufficiently shocking to not print it. The only name I mentioned was “Driberg”, and it’s not as if he was hiding his inclinations….

        • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Fenton!

          Just wondering: why do your comments have a dot before and a dot afterwards — on separate lines?

          • @PhilKean1

            My trademark. A bit like Banksy 🙂
            .

            • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Fenton!

              You forgot the top one!

        • Fergus Pickering

          Prayed on.eh? That would be vicars, I take it. Why should sixteen year old boys have more protection than sixteen yer old girls?

          • @PhilKean1

            Girls of that age are far more mature and self-assured than boys.
            I am not ashamed to admit that the girls of my age thought, rightly, that we were childish and immature. That is why they preferred to date men who were much older than themselves.

            Homosexuality isn’t biologically normal. It therefore stands to reason that young adults should have been allowed the extra 2 years to learn about themselves and arrive at the correct conclusions.
            .

            • Fergus Pickering

              You miss my point altogether. Men are natural sexual predators. I quoted Byron somewhere. II shall do it again. >man’s love is of man’s life a thing apart. ‘Tis woman’s whole existence.’.

              Ah, and suppose they do not reach the correct conclusions?

              • Kitty MLB

                Most men are natural seducers and although
                Sometimes encouraged by some little minx
                they remain gentlemen. Other men are sexual
                predators, they are never encouraged,and are
                never gentlemen.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  I did once seduce a girl, or nearly. The poor thing looked so mournful that I just gave up. In my youth I hung around combing my golden hair waiting to be seduced by women by I somehow got overlooked.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Gays & muslims are favoured by the PC agenda. They will want to bury any negative news about either group – it goes against the narrative.

      • Fergus Pickering

        I think boys are less harmed by this sort of thing than are girls. To put it sucinctly, this is because boys grow into men.

    • Damaris Tighe

      It has some of the features of a moral panic. The absurd restrictions on parents volunteering at school outings have the same elements as the witch burnings a few hundred years ago: an atmosphere where anyone can be put under suspicion.

  • Torybushhug

    I have this theory a big proportion of males are attracted to young girls. Watch men’s eyes when you’re out and about.

    • GUBU

      I’m not sure about your theory, but there’s certainly some evidence which would suggest that a higher than average proportion of males working in kebab shops are attracted to young girls.

      Don’t send your daughter for a Doner…

      • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

        sheesh!

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      There’s “young girls” and “young girls”. I would agree that a big proportion of males are attracted to mid-to-late adolescents: many slebs, stars and page 3 girls etc are late teens (ephebophilia); when you go down to hebephilia and/or paedophilia then I think (hope!) you are very wrong.

      • Roger Hudson

        I keep jumping up and down and shouting ‘ it’s the pederasts who are the main problem’.

    • Roger Hudson

      You are being steered away from the real scandal, establishment pederasty.

    • Fergus Pickering

      And the older we get the younger the girls get. See Kingsley Amis ‘Girl Twenty’. But it doesn’t matter. I am much attracted to expensive cars but I don’t steal them. This may be because I am moral or because I fear being caught or a mixture of the two..

  • saffrin

    How many paedophiles masquerade as homosexual couples in order to gain access to the social services ‘rent a kid to a pervert’ service?

    • Kennybhoy

      Oh ffs…

    • GraveDave

      It happened in Islington under Margaret Hodge. Odd, though, usually when someone posts the ‘H’ word on a blog about peados, that i’s something else the mod goes into hysterics over Or is it just me they don’t like. Certainly I don’t seem to be able to get away with some of what other posters get away with. Though there is nothing in my postal history you could cite as hate or extreme.

      • saffrin

        That will be lefty rags like the Independent, Guardian, New Statesman…
        All their mod’s are q..

        • GraveDave

          Yes, I agree up to a point . But the Speccie and DT wont even let you use slang words like f—a— g – when for instance, talking about cigarettes on a blog about -wait for it – cigarettes and smoking . Pathetic.

          • SuffolkBoy

            To be fair to the Speccie they are just lazily using Disqus software which has a norty word list inherited from the US and not tuned for the UK market. Just try discussing the regulations on internet pawn without getting modded!

      • Roger Hudson

        You are so ‘not with the program’, the agenda was set a long time ago.

        • GraveDave

          I am with it. But I thought the Speccie was a cut above all that. Silly me.

    • Fergus Pickering

      I don’t know. How many Humbert Humberts marr women to get at their daughters? You don’t know either.

    • Roger van der Velde

      How many masquerade as stable, heterosexual to get even deeper into the woodwork? Many more it seems. The right wing never fails to turn feral at the drop of a hat. It’s quite pathetic really.

  • Kennybhoy

    The question isn’t “How did paedophilia come to be such a problem in Britain?”

    It is how did paedophilia come to be such an obsession in Britain?

    • Roger Hudson

      Until recently all the establishment places, private schools, Oxbridge colleges, the churches, Westminster etc. were almost exclusively full of men, many of whom preferred boys to girls, we have to admit it.
      That has been why the agenda was ‘reform’ from the mid-sixties until now.

  • Sean L

    Daily Mail

    • Kennybhoy

      Among others…

      • Sean L

        For sure, but the Daily Mail leads the way for scaremongering.

        • Kennybhoy

          Indeed. Not for nothing is it known as the “Daily Hate” and Heaven knows I personally loathe it more than any other sic’ rag. But on this particular issue I dinnae think it was the worst offender over the years.

  • GraveDave

    Alex, Rolf Harris was one we imported for a start. I also just did a random Google and found this : Child Abuse in the Black Community… So I guess it’s something we nowadays call ‘political correctness’. No doubt a few African/Caribbean social workers could tell us a few stories too – if they wanted.

    You tube it would appear has become the New Childline http://youtu.be/21sg0Wosz9Y

    There isnt much awareness being made about child abuse in the African American community. This is why the statistics are very high. But together we can make a difference

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      And in the Arab world it isn’t even abuse, it’s the norm.

  • Anthorny

    To repeat a previous comment, as
    there are doubtless many current celebrity perverts still active, I
    pondered on one fundamental question; do perverts become celebrities to
    more easily satisfy their perverted desires, or does celebrity status
    turn non-perverts into perverts? A fascinating chicken or egg
    consideration.

    • GraveDave

      We definitely have a problem with political paedophiles .But it would appear we’re in far less of a hurry to open that particular Pandora’s Box.

  • froxfields

    I don’t believe it is more of a problem here than elsewhere, it just that this self hating society has made a real meal of it. To give so much coverage to showing some white successful males as paedophiles does distract though from the much much larger problem of Pakistani (“M” word) grooming gangs that get virtually zero coverage by comparison.

  • JoeDM

    It is a very small problem that hits the headlines and is blown out of all proportion by the tabloid media.

    • GraveDave

      The internet of course has helped blow it open too. Imagine if we didn’t have that, we’d still be singing along to ‘ I’m the leader – I’m the leader – I’m the leader of the gang I am…’ I still cant believe how many are out there defending old Rolf.

    • trotters1957

      So a bit like murder, grievous bodily harm, rape, sexual assault, these are “small problems” as well?
      Give me strength.

      • GraveDave

        And who does most of these ‘small problem’ crimes – proportionately. speaking? Not always British whites. So until we explore the truth openly this society , multicultural or otherwise , will never succeed. Whilst on the Spectator and The D/T you’ve got moron mods preventing you from even posting coherently because of certain politically incorrect trip words.

        • Roger Hudson

          Try this delete phrase ‘homosexual abuse”.

    • LB

      Is it a small problem?

      I don’t think so. It’s widespread and its exist for a long time, and its cross cultural too.

      What’s happened is the the internet has driven it into the open, when in the past it was more secret.

      It’s always been their and its not a small problem.

      It’s revealed another issue. The establishment covering up. Keeping the public in the dark. That needs rooting out at all levels. From secret manifestos, to covering up for Smith and Handcock, to cooking the accounts,….

    • Roger Hudson

      Rubbish, child abuse has been a scandal for decades (for ever?).
      Read ‘Oliver Twist’.

      • Fergus Pickering

        Read Petronius Arbiter. How old is Giton, do you think?

  • gerronwithit

    It’s no more or less prevalent now than then, it is just that they are not getting away with it as easily unless, of course, you are in a Pakistani gang grooming white girls, which makes it cultural rather than a crime.

    • rogermurrayclark
      • chesters

        th Rochdale social worker who tried to blow the whistle many times, Sara Robotham, is a star. She has, of course, since been made redundant

    • GraveDave

      On the day Rolf got convicted there was a few paragraphs in my paper about another of these (‘Asian’) rape incidents in a Berks wood.

      • rogermurrayclark

        There is a systematic cover up by the national media, the local press reports don’t get wider coverage so the public doesn’t get to see the big picture, which is horrendous

        local links here

        http://kafircrusaders.wordpress.com/muslim-grooming-paedo-map/

        • Terry Field

          D notices or the like are, I suspect, issued like confetti these days.

          • rogermurrayclark

            Probably don’t have to, self-censorship, quack like ducks to the same politically correct hymn sheet

            • Terry Field

              A fellow cynic
              Hail

      • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

        Are you sure they said “Asian”? In the grooming cases the BBC usually only says “men”; with terrorism etc it may say “Asian”, I am surprised the Sikh, Hindu, Korean, Japanese etc communities aren’t up in arms about this intentional generalisation.

        • Terry Field

          Yes, they should sue the media for lying and degfaming them.
          We all know who is behind most of this.
          We are not idiots.

        • grumpy_old_ben

          It’s quite instructive to read the local press. It seems at times to be reporting from a completely different country to the one visible through an off-white, rose-tinted haze from Guardian Towers, Shepherd’s Bush and similar places.

          • GraveDave

            Always makes me grin when they describe the clothes the suspects were last seen in but not the skin or other defining features. Surely it’s in everybody’s interest to be as factual as we can In these matters.

        • GraveDave

          Yes, it was in the Metro, I think.

    • Terry Field

      NONE of the 80 + individuals have been put before the courts!
      Why – simple – Home Office social management – to stop the violent rage the population would otherwise exact against this barbarism and its acolytes.

    • Roger Hudson

      At least the Pakistani gangs are not qu***, unlike most establishment molesters.

    • thomasaikenhead

      Is it not fascinating that the ‘community leaders’, usually so quick to see their ‘rights’ about Muslim dress, or Muslim faith schools or halal food, enforced suddenly all go missing and remain silent on the topic of gangs of Muslim men of Pakistani origin repeatedly forming gangs that groom, rape, beat and prostitute white, Christian school girls?

      • Roger van der Velde

        Who said the white girls were ‘Christians’? Answer: absolutely nobody. They may have been targeted because they were not Muslims, but that doesn’t equate to ‘Christian’.
        Hardly anybody in the UK is genuinely religious. Whether people like it or not.

        • thomasaikenhead

          Roger,

          These Muslim men of Pakistani origin only ever target whie Christian school girls, never Muslims or Buddhists or Sikhs or Jewish girls?

          Why do you think that is?

          • Roger van der Velde

            You seem to be still confused. ‘White’ does not equal ‘Christian’. I am white, but not a christian. There is no indication that any of those girls were ‘Christian’.

            In answer to your direct question, I’d say they targeted white girls because there are more white girls to target and because they are perceived as ‘easier’. Anyone would have a hard time finding a sizable enough ‘ community’ of Buddhist girls in the UK.

            • thomasaikenhead

              Roger,

              I am not confused at all, I just happen to know the facts.

              The UK IS a Christian country whether you like it or not.

              You conveniently ignore the fact that hte Muslim men of Pakistani and somalian origin do not live in isolation but rather embedded within communities of the same origin but would not dare go after the young female children in their own communities.

              The silence and collusion of these communities is what makes abuse of this nature possible.

              When will they repudiate it and start a ‘Not in my name’ media campaign to protect the child victims of street grooming gangs?

              • Nicola Downes

                There are more men of Caucasian origin praying on children within their own ethnic group, than those who come from outside. And White does not always equate to being Christian. There is a large British born African a day Caribbean community in the UK who describe themselves as Christian. Why do you always mention the race of the minority of outsiders who abuse children and never mention the race of the white majority of men who abuse children?

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Nicola,

                  I am interested in seeing justice for all victims abuse, whatever the colour of their abusers.

                  I have previously spoken out against such abuse within the Roman Catholic Church, Anglican religious institutions, the Scouts, music schools and the VIP ring who used the Elm Guest House, the Kincora Boys’ home in Northern Ireland, Islington Council childrens’ homes and the antics of Epstein/Maxwell, to name but a few.

                  No of that detracts from the fact that the street grooming abuse by Muslim men of Pakistani origin has ben going on for decades on an industrial scale involving tens of thousands of victims, does it?

                  I have repeatedly praised the likes of Nazir Afzal and Baroness Warsi and Mohammed Shafiq and even Yasmin H-B for speaking out.

                  Time to put the victims first rather than trying to deny the facts?

              • Roger van der Velde

                I’ll help you along with this: more people in Britain are non-Christian (either another religion or complete non-believers) than are self-identified Christians. That is a fact you so conveniently miss. Since Britain is not a theocracy, it isn’t a ‘christian’ country in that sense either. You may well be a Christian, but don’t assume that your religious point-of-view is representative of the entire country.

                • thomasaikenhead

                  Roger,

                  How kind of you to offer to help me out, what a pity that you are so ignorant about Christianity in the Uk though!

                  I am not projecting any religious point whatsoever, simply stating a fact, namely that the UK IS a Christian country.

                  Here are a few pointers to help YOU out:

                  – The Sovereign is Head of State, currently Queen Elizabeth II. She is also Supreme Governor of the Church of England, the official state religion.
                  – Bishops sit as Lords Spiritual in the Upper Chamber of Parliament, the House of Lords.
                  – The last national census shows that the vast majority of the population identify themselves as Christian.
                  – The entire civil administration of the country has its basis in the parish.
                  – The legal system is based on testimony sworn on the Bible.

                  I could go on but whether you understand it or not the UK is a Christian country.

      • Nicola Downes

        Sorry, but in the same sentiment, most pedophiles are White, so why don’t white community leaders go into pubs , clubs , churches and restaurants telling white people not rape children? How come we are not looking at why white men especially are so plagued with these desires? Could it be a negative left over remnant of Greco-Roman influences in the West? If you’re going to criticise any ethnic group get your own house in order first! Because when it comes to pedophilia, Whites have taken the banner and stormed far deeper into the depths of depravity than any other ethnic group in history.

    • Damaris Tighe

      There is some suggestion that the Westminster ring involves gays. Given that the political class has been pushing the gay agenda as much as it defends Islam, it’s beginning to look like a cover-up on behalf of favoured minorities.

  • Makroon

    After the “MPs expenses” and “‘phone hacking” hysteria, “the hunt for geriatric molesters” is just the latest “trend” where a permanently outraged, sanctimonious and voyeuristic public can be fed pap by journalists, too idle to report the news from around the world.
    These days there are virtually no taboos – all have been swept away in a tide of uber-libertarianism and uber-rationalism.
    This generation of haters need something acceptable to focus their hatred on. If it can be mixed in with some fantasies about shadowy conspiracies of “the rich and famous”, so much the better.
    It often seems that the press, notably the Spectator, are just desperate for any excuse to post up pictures of Savile.
    Doesn’t it strike anyone as slightly odd that Britain is the only country in the world with this “issue” ?

    • MikeBrighton

      We are most certainly not the only country in the world with this “issue”. You should (for example) take a look at the dark underbelly of Belgium starring Marc Detroux and the white march that took place to protest strongly suspected cover-up.

    • GraveDave

      Doesn’t it strike anyone as slightly odd that Britain is the only country in the world with this “issue” ?

      Like the poster above said, we’re just bigger self haters.

    • Kennybhoy

      Sound.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      Here`s a suggestion, open a special prison solely for celebrities, politicians and opinion leaders.

  • Rhoda Klapp8

    Paedos are not so much evil as mentally ill. What we need to do is not witchhunt or demonise but create a culture where allegations do not get swept under the carpet to protect people or organisations. They always cover up. They always justify and rationalise the coverup by the harm it would do to the organisation (the church, the party, the school, the BBC) if it came out.

    • HookesLaw

      Then is all evil a mental illness?

      • Rhoda Klapp8

        No, isn’t that a non-sequitur?

        • HookesLaw

          Maybe i did not make my intentionally brief point very well. Are all people who commit horrid crimes mentally ill? We all might think a (horrid) thought – but does giving in to it make us mentally ill?

          • Rhoda Klapp8

            I don’t hold the person responsible for being born that way. Whether it be race, gender or sexuality. If acting out involves harm to others, evidently the action is evil. I would not be jailing paedos for having pictures on their hard drive and looking at them, if that is all they do. The source of the pictures is the responsibility of the distributor, and may be criminal, or not, depending again on actual harm.

            I think evil is a subjective thing, few of us do it with the idea that we are being evil because the best skill of humans is self-justification.

            • John Smith

              Rhoda, your views conflict with the law. This year sees the introduction in England & Wales of the Sexual Harm Order. Like the old ASBO, it is a restriction imposed on the application by the police to a magistrate on the grounds that a man poses any risk of sexual harm to children. Note that this is not related to offending, it is aimed at men who have behaved in a way that people (anyone at all) might think is risky to children. It can include any number of restrictions, such as banned from using the internet, from working near children or with a computer, from using leisure facilities, from possessing a camera… and it lasts for at least 2 years up to life. Without a court being involved.

              • Kennybhoy

                “Rhoda, your views conflict with the law.”

                Conflict with reason mair like…

                • Rhoda Klapp8

                  Can’t see what your problem is. You think there is objective evil? I think it is subjective, but often the subject has no need for doubt.and we would all see it as evil.

              • Rhoda Klapp8

                Doesn’t seem to me to be a good law, and it is evidently subject to misuse and injustice.

              • Fergus Pickering

                Then it is a very wicked law.

            • Kennybhoy

              “I think evil is a subjective thing…”

              Really…?

              • Fergus Pickering

                Rhoda explains what she means. Very few people do evil imagining that they themselves are evil.

          • LB

            Well, I would put the Yorkshire ripper down as mentally ill.

            I saw the Levi Bellingfield trial, and I would put him down as evil.

            Was Saville mentally ill? I don’t think so. He was rational and calculating.

            Cyril Smith? Nope, not mentally ill either.

            • Damaris Tighe

              There’s a psychiatric category called ‘personality disorder’ to cover people who are manipulative but don’t seem to lack their reasoning faculties. They’re on a sort of borderline between bad & mad.

              • LB

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Chester_Minor

                Minor is an interesting case when it comes to mentally ill committing crimes. Clearly insane, and put into Broadmore.

                Now, the reason why I think its an interesting case is that it illustrates what should happen to the mentally ill who are dangerous. It’s perfectly acceptable to lock them up. However, penal elements or punishment should not be put into place.

                Locking them up is to protect them, and to protect the public.

                There are paedophiles who do fall into this cateogry.

                http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2345971.stm is an example of this. Patient with a brain tumour who ends up being a paedophile. The location of the tumour being in frontal cortex that controls inhibitions. Remove the tumour and the problem goes away. It came back, and the tumour had regrown.

                Now clearly locking him up is acceptable, when he cannot control what’s going on.

                I see no signs of that with Rolf Harris. With others, the real problem too is the joint venture nature of the crimes, which to me means its less likely to be of the biological nature.

                I don’t have an answer to one of my questions.

                It’s across time, across societies. To me that indicates its part of human sexuality, albeit an unpleasant one, like rape. So what percentage is the underlying rate? What percentage is the varying rate? What percentage express paedophilia and what percentage manage to control it? What effect does nurture have on nature?

          • Fergus Pickering

            That is well put, Hookey. Indeed we all might. Father Brown ion G.K. Chesterton’s stories makes the same point.

      • GraveDave

        Stupid mod is holding my reply back to this. Jesus.

    • Makroon

      Rhoda Klapp8 turns “mainstream”.
      The world is truly coming to an end.

      • Kennybhoy

        Indeed…

    • Roger Hudson

      No, they are conditioned in all-male establishment institutions, so don’t develop naturally. Society has to face facts, even if it goes against the g** agenda.

    • Fergus Pickering

      They are not mentally ill. It is not crazy to seek out young girls for sexual pleasure, or young boys for that matter. It is immoral however, or evil if you prefre the older word.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      Grotty kids? I just can’t see the attraction.

    • anonuk

      The tendency (or rather, perversion) is a source of evil. The deeds are evil. The paedophile knows what he’s doing is wrong and does it anyway, so he is evil. This is not always true of the psychotic murderer, but we have to put him away anyway.

  • HookesLaw

    Is it such a growing problem? What does the evidence and/or the statistics say? There is Gary Glitter and Saville who make the headlines and if Saville enjoyed the company of dead bodies then there was something even more wierd about him.
    And insofar as there is indeed a problem, is it any different than it has always been? Where there are these people they would it seems semsible to surmise drift to places and positions which will facilitate their perversion. The obvious difference since say about 1990 is the growth of the internet which will assist in this.

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