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Will America take up the job of whack-a-mole in the Middle East?

30 June 2014

7:30 PM

30 June 2014

7:30 PM

President Obama said recently that the United States cannot simply play ‘whack-a-mole’ in the Middle East. The only appropriate response to which is to say, ‘Yes you can.’

We can all understand why the President might be feeling a little tired over all this. For nearly six gruelling years he has been calling the troops home and declaring that the war is over. Making that speech repeatedly, with the facts so continuously contradicting it, might get to anyone. The successful raid on the bin Laden compound in Pakistan was meant to have put an end to al-Qaeda. Iraq was meant to have been solved when President Obama ordered US troops out of the country. And that iteration of the ‘a decade of war is over’ speech was one of his best.

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Meantime, ISIS has saved journalists a few more taps of the finger by renaming themselves the ‘Islamic State’ (IS) after declaring a Caliphate across what was, until very recently, Syria and Iraq. Recent developments in Syria have included a stepping up in the rate of crucifixions, allowing modern people to see photographs of a barbarism most might have expected never to see.

Meantime at home we discover (thanks to the Birmingham Labour MP Khalid Mahmood) that the number of British Muslims who have gone to fight in Syria might be as high as 1500. If this is the case then it would mean that there are three times more British Muslim citizens serving in the jihad in Syria than are currently serving in the British Armed Forces. Though at least we do not currently have – as the Dutch Armed Forces do – the embarrassment of somebody who has been trained as a member of our own national army going off to use their skills to assist the jihad there.

All in all Syria is providing some very unpalatable lessons. But the one that Obama’s America is going to have to ponder as fast as possible is this: if the United States no longer has the energy to play ‘whack-a-mole’ then to whom would it be happy to delegate the role? The current players who seem most interested are regional actors (Iran, Saudi Arabia). But it is hard to see how they will do anything other than pursue their sectional interests and bring Armageddon a little closer in the process. Ordinarily at this stage of hegemonic ambition-droop there would be another world power with more than regional ambition eyeing up the burden. But Vladimir Putin’s Russia seems happy with swallowing up nearer neighbours and China appears content with just buying up the continent of Africa.

So all in all, if America isn’t going to do the job of whack-a-mole, then it looks like the job will remain vacant. And if that does happen then I predict that those people who claimed to dislike the era of American dominance may yet turn out to be the first to begin missing it.


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Show comments
  • arezoo

    and if all the Muslims and Jews were Buddhists there might be peace in the world.

    عکس سگ

    کرکره برقی

  • Amir
  • Amir

    Check this article out about Obama’s hope in the middle east:

    http://www.casualpolitics.co.uk/2014/06/is-barack-obama-worst-president-since-jimmy-carter/

  • Iain Hill

    Why do you assume we have any contribution to make, or indeed any locus in the matter? Let’s puncture our post imperial puffing for once and for all!

  • Augustus

    “… the number of British Muslims who have gone to fight in Syria might be as high as 1500.”
    And don’t let’s forget that ISIS won’t hesitate to attack Western targets in order to expand their Caliphate. You could say that there are three phases: first the indoctrination of Muslim brothers, then the West, and then the fight against Israel. According to this jihadist sect, Jerusalem will be their final battle and the Endgame. That is what they believe. What a blessing then that today there is a ‎Jewish state powerful enough to defend itself from these barbarians, and able to ‎provide a haven and assistance to Jews in need elsewhere. Despite all the talk of Islamophobia, it is the Jews of the West, not Muslims, who increasingly require security for their schools and houses of worship. It’s completely useless for politicians to make pleas to British Muslims, three quarters of whom probably support ISIS to some degree, for the protection and promotion of ‘British values’. In the face of such potential barbarism only direct and vigorous action will be successful (if it isn’t too late already).

  • William_Brown

    A great big Caliphate in the middle of the desert. Hmmmm……It ought to be encouraged.

  • Cyril Sneer

    Again and again, the obvious, the predictable happens. The warnings not heeded, the counter accusations of racism and ‘singling out a billion musims’ continue. The Jihadists carry on killing, denouncing the west. Our temporary visitors to this country continue to stay silent to the atrocious acts committed in the name of Islam, the government continues to be inept and unwilling to do anything… at all… yet will still hang on to the coat tails of the US as it tries to subvert anyone it doesn’t agree with.

    All the while our society is getting worse. The threat ever growing, more and more stories come out – rape gangs, Jihad, corrupting the school system, attacks on other minorities, total disrespect for the British way of life, the failure of the left to recognise reality, the failure of the left to accept that our resources are limited and that 500k new people a year is too much. But nothing changes, ever onwards we slide towards the abyss.

    The only saving grace will be that it will get a lot worse before it gets better, and that there is a certain section of our society that will not keep quiet, that cannot keep quiet, and they’ve easily made themselves enemy number 1 making their time here in all likelyhood… limited.

    • Bonkim

      Which land are you living in? I don’t see a lot of that. Fear of crime or Islam more destructive I suppose than the real thing.

      Lucky you are not a Palestinian in Israel’s occupied lands or:

      “Although hundreds of Palestinian children are kidnapped, brutalized or killed by Israel, including several in the past two weeks, there is rarely, if ever, such a reaction from the world.

      Just prior to the disappearance of the Israeli settler teens, the murder of two Palestinian teens was caught on a local surveillance camera. Ample evidence, including the recovered bullets and a CNNcamera filming an Israeli sharpshooter pulling the trigger at the precise moment one of the boys was shot indicated that they were killed in cold blood by Israeli soldiers. There were no condemnations or calls for justice for these teens by world leaders or international institutions, no solidarity with their grieving parents, nor mention of the more than 250 Palestinian children, kidnapped from their beds or on their way to school, who continue to languish in Israeli jails without charge or trial, physically and psychologically tortured. This is to say nothing of the barbaric siege of Gaza, or the decades of ongoing theft, evictions, assaults on education, confiscation of land, demolition of homes, color coded permit system, arbitrary imprisonment, restriction of movement, checkpoints, extrajudicial executions, torture, and denials at every turn squeezing Palestinians into isolated ghettos.

      None of that seemingly matters.”

      Two sides to a coin – don’t just look at your side.

      • Howard

        I know what article you stole this from, and failed to cite, but the idiot who wrote it relied on moral invective a lot more than she did evidence and sources. None were given. Except links to articles totally irrelevant to her points; jn fact counter to it – in the case of providing two links to IDF air striking two Palestinian terrorists last week as “evidence” for her claims that Israel targets children. Huh? There actually are cases were children have been collateral damage, and arguments can be made for malice even; Israel, in any case, has to take responsibility as well; so why she uses articles detailing the killing of terrorist adults who fire rockets from Gaza is beyond me.

        • Bonkim

          Much of politics is moral or imagined moral invective. Israel is judged by higher standards than the Palestinian rabble – the point was Israelis are as much a terror organisation – and their strategy of massive retaliation in return for pin-pricks will undermine Israel’s internal organisation and rule of law.

          • Howard

            Fair enough, but let’s not pretend that either of us know the first thing about successfully running and defending a state like Israel in a place like the middle east in a situation such as this. Israel’s methodology behind its national security are not the primary concern over the one of terrorist organizations, murderous scoundrels, and despot dictators monopolizing the Palestinian people’s plight – brainwashing their own children into terrorist martyrs fit for the slaughter while assassinating any detractors along the way. Squash that bug and the Israeli defence methodology will reform in turn.

            • Bonkim

              The less organised Britons and Queen Budica applied the same tactis against the better organised Romans. the means justify the end in their minds and not all apply the same logic or standards as you or i may do. In any case right and wrong and moral values are relative.

              Having said that those who profess a greater morality and democratic accountability and also those who support them are judged by higher standards than those classed as disorganised rabble and terrorists.

  • Amir
  • Amir
  • Jeongu

    “the number of British Muslims who have gone to fight in Syria might be as high as 1500. If this is the case then it would mean that there are three times more British Muslim citizens serving in the jihad in Syria than are currently serving in the British Armed Forces”

    It gets very wearying reading the same kinds of articles in which the blatantly obvious is continually pointed out for all to see, and yet is then allowed to pass without real comment.

    There is a problem with Islam. It is not a fringe issue neatly summed up by ‘extremism;’ it is Islam itself. Every Islamic country (look at the cartoon above) displays exactly the same set of ideas. The Koran makes it clear what is expected of Muslims. Please, can some journalists – just one or two would be enough to begin with – stand up for the truth and say in print what the majority already knows.

    The only way to have a consistent strategy with the whack-a-mole dilemma is to be honest about why they need whacking in the first place.

    • Leocrumb

      We have a wierd situation in the west, where people think that the Islam practiced in Brighton or Syracuse is the REAL Islam and every Muslim majority nation including the Birthplace of Islam in Saudi Arabia is practicing some warped version. If every Muslim subscribed to this new tempered Western version I suspect we would be having a completely different conversation.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Apparently the Islam practised by the older generation & the first immigrants to the UK was of the relatively tame sufi variety. Many of their children, instead of becoming more westernised have become more fundamentalist, & in Islam more fundamental means more barbaric.

      • Augustus

        What’s also weird is how inconsistent Islamic fundamentalists are. Take Mecca, for example. The Kaaba (ancient Sacred House) is supposed to be ‘the most sacred point within this most sacred mosque, making it the most sacred location in Islam.’Wherever they are in the world, Muslims are expected to face the Kaaba, i.e. when outside Mecca, to face toward Mecca when performing prayers.’ But along come groups like al Qaeda, the Taliban and now ISIS who don’t want any idolatry from Muslims, or even non-Muslims. ISIS have now said they will ruin the Kaaba after capturing Saudi Arabia “If Allah wills, we will kill those who worship stones in Mecca and destroy the Kaaba. People go to Mecca to touch the stones, not for Allah.” ( ISIS member Abu Turab Al Mugaddasi).

        ISIS has already destroyed 3,000 year old artifacts in Syria. If they do this in Mecca, the pilgrimage (Hajj) that all able-bodied Muslims are required to make at least once in their lifetime, is going to be a bit meaningless walking around a building that is no longer there.

    • will91

      1500 men willing to actually travel to fight. For me, that say’s that their’s perhaps 5 – 8 times that many who are sympathetic to the views of ISIS. This should absolutely terrify us.

  • zanzamander

    Never mind “whack-a-mole”, I think with whats going on in the world, US is playing “cuddle-a-mole”.

  • Mick Norris

    Ukraine, not UK´s referendum will be the end of the EU.

  • Donafugata

    Let the mole continue to whack itself.

  • Sam Schaffer

    ISIS is a former defense contractor company that started in Arizona and had a base in Mexico. A man named Luis Vega was the vice president. How did ISIS end up in the Mideast as Islamic rebels? Who hired them and sent them there?

  • andy_gill

    Actually, I’m loving this. ISIS are getting so out hand, the long-awaited backlash against Islamofascism home and abroad will surely follow. If the government won’t do anything to stamp out jihadism in Britain, the people will have to do it themselves.

    Just one or two acts of terror at home is all it will take. And Islam in Britain will be given the back-of-the-bus treatment it deserves.

    • JB_1966

      We have had acts of terror at home from them, both one and two, and the reaction in this country has been to panic about “backlash”.

      But I hope you’re right.

      • Cyril Sneer

        No that was the BBC.

        Question Time after the Rigby murder – it wasn’t “are we safe from extremist Islam”… it actually turned out to be “Is Islamophobia on the rise”. Unbelievable.

        It’s examples like this that makes me very proud of the fact that I do not pay my licence fee, I refuse and they’ll never see a penny from me.

        • JB_1966

          Yes indeed. Appalling idiocy by the BBC but that is all we get from them. I never, ever watch their news or political coverage.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Nor me, and I refuse to pay the licence.

            I would contribute, donate money, anything to see this organisation ripped apart.

        • will91

          Another low point for QT came on the first programme after 9/11 in 2001. The BBC hand picked the left wing rabble of an audience, who screeched their anti-war, anti-american, pro-Palestine message throughout the programme. Such was the level of vitriol directed toward the United States regarding how it effectively “had this coming”. That the American ambassador to the UK, who was on the panel, was brought to tears after the show.

      • Damaris Tighe

        If Woolwich didn’t do it I don’t know what will.

        • JB_1966

          Exactly. We have been beaten down and made craven, afraid to voice disapproval of savagery even when so openly expressed on film.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Remember how quickly Cameron went before the cameras to say that islam is the ‘religion of peace’!

            • JB_1966

              I do indeed. Which is nonsense of course and everybody knows it but politicians dare not say otherwise.

              • Damaris Tighe

                Well, I’m not sure the left-multicultis know it. They should be forced to read the Koran. They would be shocked – you couldn’t find a less PC document (apart from Mein Kamf).

    • Donafugata

      I agree Andy, the whole scenario has taken a quantum leap since the Trojan Horse revelations and the barbarity of IS.

      We are close to tipping point, hopefully Islam will be thrown off the bus altogether.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Indeed, it is now possible to criticise Islam publically but it’s difficult to see what can be done now that so many of our fellow-citizens are muslim. Thank you LibLabCon.

  • Julieann Carter

    I don’t agree with you on Putin/Russia. Everything coming out of Ukraine paints an entirely different picture. It is horrendous, and totally at odds to BBC news reports, and US/EU dictats.

    • Cyril Sneer

      Julieann – this is a perfect example:

      Trade Union House atrocity in the Ukraine, the BBC referred to Right Sector as ‘Right Wing’… this is in the same week that they referred to UKIP as ‘far right’. So the jew hating russo hating far right ultranationailsts of Right Sector are just like the conservatives whilst UKIP is like the Nazis apparently.

      This is straight from the BBC, from an article that took me an hour to read. Why did it take so long? Because I had to stop every few seconds and rub my eyes – I could not believe the utter lies in this report. The propaganda is beyond belief and in this article they only interviewed the one side – no survivors of that massacre were interviewed in that article, no one from the other side.

      Some people regard the BBC as an insitution and they say, although it needs reforming it should not be broken up.

      I disagree, it must be dismantled and completely destroyed.

  • Jez

    You was doing great Douglas- unfortunately you’ve slumped back into a NeoCon voice box.

    People aren’t kicking off about American dominance (within the masses) because of some deep seated hatred of the Yanks.

    they may be quite vocal at the utter fkcu ups that have been unleashed upon the world that have recently set in on fire.

  • Terry Field

    The Western way of smashing Islam has been abandoned since the United States become top woofer.
    This gives the Mussulman the edge – and what an edge he has made now!
    This declaration of a Caliphate, with the destruction of imperialist maps will be immensely powerful amongst moslems – and it will transform the Arab World; they have the initiative and the West is nowhere in sight.

  • JoshuaCzajkowski

    Western masochism is part of the problem. Western society(large parts of it) has become almost suicidal in its nature, defending the rights of enemies over their fellow citizens. A good example of this is those three Israeli teenagers that were killed. The first comment i read posted on the BBC facebook link was something along the lines of “I wonder how many Palestinian teenagers have been killed by Israel.” Most Palestinian teenager deaths are caused by Palestinian Islamic militants. The funny thing is these so-called ‘liberals’ would be the first ones hanging from a noose if the people they are trying to protect got their way.

    • Bonkim

      If Israel did not continue with their illegal occupation and illegal settlements, and killed Palestinians indiscriminately we may have looked at their situation impartially. They are behaving not unlike the Nazis in terms of collective punishment on civilians and reprisal killings. An eye for an eye is not good politics and those that profess to be more civilized than the Palestinian rabble are judged by higher standards.

      • Sam Schaffer

        I agree Bonkin, ISIS is also a defense contractor company that was once run by a man named Luis Vega. They supplied support to militaries and other defense contractors and were guns for hire.Who hired them to fight in the Mideast?

        • Bob339

          Israel, America and the House of Saud.These three are paying the Isis ‘soldiers’.

          • will91

            Is there a name for what’s wrong with you?

      • Cyril Sneer

        “we may have looked at their situation impartially.”

        What the f ck?

        Three kids were abducted and murdered, this alone must receive full condemnation.

        Anyone taking a political slant on this and not condemning this vile act accordingly seriously needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

        Politics is irrelevant, these kids were abducted and murdered, This is a heinous crime. This is no different to any other kid in any other part of the world being abducted and murdered.

        Bonkim, you seriously need to re-evaulate yourself. I’m utterly offended by your comment.

        • Iain Hill

          Without realising, you are making the right point. This is a police matter and should be investigated. Let trigger happy politicians stay out of it!

          • Bonkim

            Cyril has a mental block!

        • Bonkim

          Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

          Many hundreds/thousands of Palestinian men, women, and children have died, Israel was born in violence – Israel supported by the Zionist Lobby in the US continue to support a fascist state that continues to ignore UN resolutions, expand into occupied territory further and further, set up illegal settlements, take Palestinian lands and prevent them earning a livelihood, make millions refugees for generations; what do you expect?

          Whilst the three boys were murdered and it is a wanton criminal act, what you need to look at the causes of the situation – likely to continue as long as the legitimate political aspirations of the majority population in the region. Killings of Palestinians do not appear to attract the media interest that a few Israelis do.

          Strange as it may seem Israel finds itself with ISIS – fighting on the same side.

      • Leocrumb

        Clearly you are just parroting every cliched bit of nonsense about Israel you have ever heard, and think your rote repetition constitutes an opinion. Rest assured you don’t actually have an opinion, you have probably never had an original thought in your life.

        • Bonkim

          Crumbs – another Messiah to Israel’s defence!

      • Damaris Tighe

        If this is the case then why are there several hundred palestinian terrorists incarcerated in Israeli prisons, having been convicted by court of law with right to a full legal defence (until they are released many years before the end of their sentence under a deal ‘for peace’).

        BTW, prison conditions under the ‘Nazi-like’ Israelis are quite comfortable: muslim prisoners are allowed to practice their religion, receive visitors, & govern themselves.

        • Bonkim

          Someone’s terrorist is someone-else’s freedom fighter – Don’t forget the atrocities committed by Irgun. Where were the Police then?

          • will91

            And what freedoms are Hamas fighting for? Free elections? Womens rights? The rights for religious minorities? Be serious, the first thing these ‘freedom fighters’ did when they gained power was execute all their political opponents. If your not of the squeamish type you can view a video on Kaotic showing Hamas throwing political opponents head first off 6 story buildings.

            • Bonkim

              Different perspectives different rules – why do you expect Hamas or ISIS or Al Khaida to deal with the situation as they see it in your terms? They set their own rules of engagement.

              • will91

                Are you going to pretend that you know that little about human well being? Does moral relativism so completely skew your mind that it prevents you from making a moral judgement on a group like Hamas or ISIS. It just so happens that ‘my terms’ are in any objective moral sense a better guide to human well being than anything uttered by Hamas, ISIS or Al-Qaeda. Yes there are different view points, but don’t be afraid of calling these viewpoints evil.

                • Bonkim

                  Darwin did not define how to define ‘the fit’ that will survive. Doubt if Darwin was a moralist or guided by moral questions in how nature behaves.

                  Regardless of whether I go along with the value some of these revolutionary organisations allocate to human well being, we are looking at the real world where these organisations operate – to repeat – those that don’t have much to lose take greater risks, and prepared to pay the ultimate price – those that have possessions are handicapped by the fear of losing what they have.

                  Ideas are what change the direction of human history – we are seeing the end of an era – same as early 20th century saw the end of Empires and brought the concept of the nation state – ISIS next door is floating the idea of the brotherhood of Muslims – not territoriality or national governments as the basis of political power. So interesting time ahead.

          • Penny

            I disagree with this “someone’s terrorist is someone else’s freedom fighter” stuff. To my mind there is a distinction. Freedom fighters generally target the government / its military installations / strategic objectives. Terrorists target civilians.

            • miford

              Yes the Israeli army target civilians. In fact in most wars these days it’s the civilians who get killed. It’s not like the old days when the King lead an army into battle with armed soldiers as the enemy. Modern warfare is about obliterating thousands upon thousands of civilians sometimes with war heads laced with depleted uranium so that any who may survive will have their DNA so badly damaged they will never parent a child.

          • Damaris Tighe

            There were no Israeli police then, there were British police & army, & they hunted them. If you’re going to comment on the middle east make sure you know what you’re talking about.

            • Bonkim

              Yes the British mandate – but were the British police successful? in the end the Allied Powers were forced to set up Israel as a Jewish homeland due to pressures of refugee ships arriving and as atonement for the two Millennia of Christian persecution of the Jews. The Arabs were a rabble and colonial powers paid scant attention to their rights. Only way the Palestinians could fight back was through terrorist acts. The story continues and Israel will have to continue as usual. Those who live by the sword die by the sword. Whoever heard of God promising land to a favoured tribe?

        • miford

          There are lots of Palestinian teenagers in Israel’s prisons who have done nothing wrong at all and hundreds of Palestinian teenagers have been murdered by heavily armed soldiers for throwing stones at armoured vehicles, or for just being there, in their own country.

      • Tom M

        “Illegal occupation and illlegal settlements”
        Explain why you think they are illegal if you will?

        • Bonkim

          Explain why they are not?

          • Liberty

            Because there has never been a Palestinian or legal Arab state in the WB. Jordan occupied it illegally from 1948 to 1967 and gave up all claims in 1988. The last legal government was the Ottoman Empire [deceased]. The PA has never specified its jurisdiction so there is no such thing as Palestinian land and it can be settled by anyone – as long as the owners or occupants are compensated. The Ottomans were feudal; the Brits, Jordanians nor the PA reformed land ownership. The PA still operates feudally so few Palestininans own any land; they occupy it but that is not the same as owning it.

            Israel occupied the WB in 1967 during a defensive war so control is legal – pending a peace agreement.

            40% of the land controlled by Israel is in the Jordan valley which was uncultivated and unoccupied except for Jericho which remains in PA hands. Most of the rest is military and civilian infrastructure. Only 3% is settlements. Nevertheless, Israel built settlements on unoccupied or uncultivated land and where it had been occupied, owners or occupants were compensated although there are rogue settlers that are dealt with by the courts.

            • Bonkim

              That is your explanation – agree land does not belong to anyone but the one that possesses and works on it, and protects its occupation.

              • Liberty

                You’re not making any sense

                • Bonkim

                  That is how English law defines land ownership. Israel is in occupation until someone else displaces it. Nothing is permanent.

          • Tom M

            I think that as you made the alllegation it is incumbent upon you to substantiate it but anyway.
            Liberty below makes perfectly legitimate reasons why not.
            My particular take is that when the whole arab/jew thing was sent to arbitration to the UN in 1947 (as no other solution was apparent) a vote was taken and UN resolution181 proposed a two state solution with Jerusalem being administered by the UN. The arabs didn’t agree and started a war. This sorry state, and several wars in between, has persisted since then.
            As you will notice the land was in dispute before the UN resolution and as the arabs rejected that solution the land is still therefore in dispute. If the arabs had agreed to UN181 (or any other solution offered since then) then you might have been right but they didn’t did they?

            • Bonkim

              Cutting through the history which I have been following ever since 1948 when i started reading newspapers and listening to radio, all what you say is under the bridge. In English Law – land does not belong to anyone but the one occupying and using same – we can argue till Kingdom come on UN resolutions and legality/illegality of the foundation of the State of Israel and throwing out by force those who liven in Palestine at the time, or the fact that Israel supported by major UN powers had continues to grab land and displace more.

              Israel was formed on land confiscated from those living there at the time by a colonial power more as atonement for 2000 years of persecuting Jews by Christians and at the end of a war that showed barbarity on a massive scale. The winners of that war were instrumental in setting up the UN and backing up its resolutions with force – in according to their political will.

              The point was Israel assumes force will achieve its survival – it has become a habit to retaliate with ever more violence simply because Israel is a better organised and organisationally more powerful entity surrounded by the rabble of Palestine and its other neighbours – the real question is how long it will continue to pay the price – those around don’t have a lot to lose and are used to make-do but Israelis are dependent on complex world trade and assistance from the US. It has to weigh the long-term situation.

              The enemy surrounding Israel are fare greater in number and Prepared to pay any price – they are there for the long haul. ISIS next door is sending a powerful idea – and ideas are what win in the long term. Wars are usually won or lost from within.

              • Tom M

                Interesting. Israel’s history has been a lifetime interest for me too.
                However, summarising what you say suggests that it was irrelevant ever taking the case of the arabs/jews to arbitration because force of arms would prevail if one side didn’t agree.
                I suggest that whatever the rights and wrongs of the issue were at the time (you could spend several lifetimes discussing the region’s history and who owned what when) arbitration would seem the only civilised way to resolve the territorial dispute. The arabs rejected this line of approach in 1947 the conclusion being they preferred a military solution. They lost all of those also.
                Strangely the arabs now have the breathtaking audacity to demand a return to 1967 borders and a two-state solution. This option having been available several wars and a lot of unnecessary deaths ago.

                • Bonkim

                  The ‘Arabs’ you refer to are a corrupt and disjointed rabble. Social organisation and separation from blind religion is what enabled Britain to forge ahead in the world three hundred years back whereas it took Europeans a century or two more.

                  The 1967 war led by Egypt was a fiasco simply because there were a number of players in the region, most poor in organisation whereas Israel was fighting for its existence. I have no problem with that as long all recognize that Israel is not an angel and its methods are no different from those of the Nazis (moderated for PR purposes as it wants to be seen as a democratic state in the Western mould) and that it carries out collective punishment, extra-judicial killings, and covert actions where it can in pursuit of its objectives. No different from the US (and Britain in the past). It is the holier than thou attitude of some that I detest.

                  I also don’t swallow God-given right to territory to any tribal group on earth. ISIS next door has extended that principle and Caliphs and Mahdis have appeared in the past to unite Muslims – now that is not a lot different from the concept of Israel as the homeland for Jews. So wait to see history repeat itself.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Of course Israel is no angel but to compare it to the Nazis is sheer hyperbole. If you had lived under the Nazis I’m sure you would have noticed the difference. For a start, Israel has a Supreme Court to which any individual, Arab or Jew, can petition for justice. The court is known for its ‘liberal’ rulings & is disliked for this by some on the right. When you start comparing Israelis to Nazis I find it quite sinister: as if you’re saying ‘hey, look, these Jews are as bad as their tormentors, maybe they have no right to be defended’.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Exactly.

              • Liberty

                Israel was various pockets of Jewish settlements out of the Western part of Palestine near the sea in 1948 and citizens included all Arab residents. Jordan had been created out of the Eastern part of Palestine in 1922. The middle bit [the WB] extending right up to 1km from the sea plus Gaza was offered to the Arabs as a second Arab state in Palestine but refused. If this arrangement had been accepted at the time Israel could not have been viable; it was too small, in discrete pockets, virtually cut in the middle with twice as many Arabs as Jews.

                Far from being an imposition on the Arab residents Jews had lived in Palestine for millenia. In the 19c they were a majority in Jerusalem and Hebron. There were more Arab immigants that Jewish thereafter. Jews bought land from Arab landowners to settle or work .

                On its creation, surrounding Arab nations tried to elminate Israel and asked, pressed or persuaded its Arab residents to leave. 500,000 Jews could not force out 650,000 Arab people at the same time as fight off 5 Arab armies although when they were leaving the advantage to Israeli commanders to ‘encourage’ them was obvious. They were fighting for their lives. Nevertheless, 20% of Arab residents remained and are to this day Israeli citizens.

                It must be tough for Arabs to consider that if they had accepted the status quo in 1948 modern Israel would have been impossible; Jaffa, Lod, Haifa, etc would have been Arab cities.

                • Bonkim

                  Thanks – balanced analysis – but we are here today with the situation that exists. Generations have passed. If both sided recognized reality and came to a sensible two state solution – that would be wishful thinking. The real reason is that Israel is strong militarily and supported by major Security council members (Britain and the US) so can get away with anything it does. The Palestinians are rabble – divided, disorganised and assuming terrorism or emotional appeals will win wars. Israelis are by necessity more motivated. Social organisation and collective will wins every time over morality.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  Thankyou for reminding us that Jordan was the first Palestinian state. The ‘two state solution’ could be interpreted as the ‘two Palestinian state’ solution, ie, the West Bank in addition to Jordan.

      • global city

        If Israel had done all of those things then Hamas would still be fighting to have every Jew murdered.

        That’s the basic truth of the situation.

        As has been said, if the Arabs put down their arms then there would be peace, but if the Jews laid down theirs there would soon be another holocaust!

        • Bonkim

          Yes If Israel continues to do what it is doing it will be over-run one of these days – the enemy is far more numerous and can afford to lost all it has whereas Israel is a modern organised society which can give way from within when costs get more than it can afford.

          • global city

            But, what CAN Israel do? Their enemies will never stop until there are no Jews left. No amount of western stupid lefty wishful thinking will change that fact.

            You must understand the ‘conflict’. Israel has every right to be belligerent.There is no possible political solution that will end this hate. Because of the savagery of their enemy it is literally an existential issue….. for the Jews.

            • Bonkim

              Yes – fight for existence and recognize survival of the fittest, also life-cycle of everything in nature. Nothing is for ever.

              • global city

                But that isn’t some sort of ‘attitude’ or policy stance it is the reality of the situation. You seem to be slipping into the realms of the conspiracy of ‘End Times as national policy’ that some lefties have taken up in order to justify their Jew hatred. Don’t fall for it.

                • Bonkim

                  I am quite right-wing, Darwinian, don’t take sides – only look at reality on the ground. See no right or wrong in the Israeli/Arab situation – they both get what they deserve – each other and will continue for ever.

                • global city

                  Fair enough. I agree.

        • miford

          and if all the Muslims and Jews were Buddhists there might be peace in the world.

    • miford

      ‘Most Palestinian teenager deaths are caused by Palestinian Islamic militants.’
      What utter rubbish. Israel is committing genocide on the whole Palestinian nation including teenagers, children and the elderly.

  • Mark

    It’s a sad irony that amid the idle talk of whether Britain should send troops to Iraq and Syria, it turns out we have been – it’s just they’re fighting for the jihadists. At the same time, in the fairytale land of Western delusion, a breakfast television presenter compares those out head-hacking for ISIS with George Orwell fighting in the Spanish Civil War, and a Green councillor in Brighton describes members of our own armed forces as “hired killers”. The lack of seriousness would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

    • JB_1966

      We are beset by idiocy and treachery, as you say.

    • Cyril Sneer

      The idiocy continues. It almost seems like rank stupidity is to be awarded nowadays. Comparing those that fought in the Spanish civil war to those that go to fight a sectarian war of genocide against mostly civilians is just obscene.

      Ah the Green councillor referring to British soldiers as hired killers. that’s nice of him and so typical of the left. It just highligts that the complete lack of reasoning and their utter hatred these leftist pieces of sh t have for my country. If I heard that Green councillor say that I’d walk up to him and spit in his face.

      They continue to excuse what can only be descibed as religious Nazis. What does that say about them eh?

      • Damaris Tighe

        See my post above.

    • sarahsmith232

      Hasn’t just been silly BBC airheads, Labour’s Sadiq Khan got up to the same thing on Sky the other morning. Needless to say, he wasn’t challenged on his idiocy.
      As people point out, there was an equivalence in the 30s – the Hitler youth. These half-wits are trying to establish a barbaric fascist dictatorship, not leave the country to fight against one. Just goes to show how easily led some people can be, all it takes is for a few airhead TV presenters to come out with these silly statements and they’re all bobbing up parroting back out the line.

      • Damaris Tighe

        The left rely on moral equivalence to obscure the real issues from us as well as themselves.

    • Damaris Tighe

      The left relies on moral equivalence to obscure the difference between good and evil.

  • Ricky Strong

    Perhaps the West and Russia should have the decency to admit that arming the world to the teeth was perhaps a flawed idea.

    • http://europa-antiqua-arca.blogspot.com/ clavdivs

      Peace in our time!

  • Roger Hudson

    The line between ‘the war is over’ and ‘the war is lost’ needs to be crossed soon and lessons learned. The founding fathers never wanted America to send forces abroad, also listen to the 4th (last ) verse of the anthem.

  • monkey for sale

    Maliki wanted the US to give him planes and bombs. Obama wanted him to go. If he had to stay, then he should be more inclusive.
    Looks like Maliki has decided to go head to head with the Sunni / Shia war instead. Russian planes and Tehran on speed dial.
    Why should Western countries get between two warring people? Let them get on with it.

    • Roger Hudson

      Maliki may be getting old Sukhoi 25’s ,but what about the huge number of bombs he will need.
      Britain only keeps enough bombs, shells and bullets (foreign made of course) for a few days of real high tempo war, oops.

  • CraigStrachan

    “Meantime at home we discover (thanks to the Birmingham Labour MP Khalid Mahmood) that the number of British Muslims who have gone to fight in Syria might be as high as 1500. If this is the case then it would mean that there are three times more British citizens serving in the jihad in Syria than are currently serving in the British Armed Forces.”

    Can’t be right, unless there are only 500 British citizens in the British Armed Forces. (I mean, I knew there had been cuts, but this is ridiculous!)

    • Roger Hudson

      British muslim citizens, you muppet.
      I found the number rather reassuring , people forget what a small minority 2-6% of the British population is. Look at the troops marching in a typical homecoming ceremony , count them against the small ‘anti-‘ demonstrators. You do know there is a ‘war emergency’ exemption to all European rights legislation i hope.
      As for the 7/7 bombings, truly terrible for victims , but then look at a film from the Blitz which England survived in comparison.

      • CraigStrachan

        “British muslim citizens” is a subsequent clarification.

  • Bonkim

    How about the EU National Army? Get serious Mr Murray – Moles breed profusely and modern technology and worldwide communications make it all too easy for them to multiply. The more you zap the more they breed.

    The RAF once strafed rebellious Arab tribesmen from biplanes, it can’t do that now as they have their human rights. We can’t also deport suspected terrorists to countries where they may not get British Standard Justice or be summarily hanged and quartered. Don’t blame Obama – the US can afford to shut its gate and hibernate and planes and missiles cost a lot of money.

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