Coffee House

Why England’s World Cup elimination will help save the union with Scotland

20 June 2014

9:58 PM

20 June 2014

9:58 PM

So England are out the World Cup; the Three Lions rolled over – and we can expect plenty more gloomy Anglo introspection about failings over the coming days. But Alex Salmond must be even more gutted than anyone south of the Border. Over at SNP HQ, they would have been cheering England’s boys on like crazy – because if ever there were something more certain to elicit anti-English sentiment among the Scots in the run up to a referendum, it would be a successful World Cup run.

As an Englishman who has lived in Scotland, I’m afraid I know how unbearable it can all seem when England is doing well in a tournament.  And just think of all the lager-fuelled, synthetic passion, and off-putting chauvinism —  had we beaten Uruguay and Italy. And if by some miracle — and it really would have taken a miracle — we had somehow lifted the trophy, the Union would surely have been sunk. Imagine it. We English would have been intolerably smug throughout the summer, especially towards our jealous northern neighbours. In no time we would have whipped the Scots into a resentful lather. By September 18, the day of the referendum, after two months of “Football’s come home” celebrations, the Scots would have wanted nothing to do with us whatsoever.

[Alt-Text]


After all, they, like the English, seem to care more about football than about politics or economics. The fury they feel at George Osborne threatening to deprive them of the pound would be as nothing compared to that inspired by the sight of Wayne Rooney holding aloft the World Cup amidst a sea of St George’s crosses and jubilant Englishmen.

Happily for Unionists, things have turned out rather differently. The English are despondent. And the Scots, rather than resenting our football success, are showing an unusual level of sympathy towards us. Even the retired pop star Pat Kane, a leading light of the YES campaign, has offered his condolences

The longer England’s campaign went  on, the more English commentators would implore Wayne et al to ‘bring football home’. To a home Scotland want to ensure is distinct from theirs. Now, they’re extending fraternal condolences. For the Englishmen who love the Union, this is some consolation.

Subscribe to The Spectator today for a quality of argument not found in any other publication. Get more Spectator for less – just £12 for 12 issues.


Show comments
  • James Morrison

    Absolute guff.

  • Fraziel

    What a load of cobblers. I cant imagine how England do in the world cup would in any way affect how 99.9% of Scots would vote.

  • Ian

    Am I the only one reading this as a bit of ‘fun’? If so then I’ll apologise and take my leave as I’m in the wrong place.

    • Maidmarrion

      If you would be kind enough to point out the rib tickling bits maybe the rest of us could have quiet wee smirk.

      • Ian

        I didn’t say rib tickling, I said a bit of fun. Do you really suppose the result of a football competition that will have ended more than 2 months before a referendum will have any bearing on the result? Really? We Scots get annoyed with the media, not the fans. Jeez! We’re just as nuts about football. The difference is that for the past few years we’ve basically been on the sidelines for the same reason England lost out. We brought in too many foreign players who were only as good as we already had, but because the were foreign they were deemed better and our National team suffered. Look at your top leagues, what percentage of home grown players start regularly. Freddy has unfortunately failed to mention that the problem is THE MEDIA and not the regular guy in the street. We don’t hate England, we despair with the media, especially the whole London centric thing (I still think the new Wembley should have been built somewhere near Leeds, y’know, central to the country). We’re all fans and we know how it feels to be totally deflated. Honestly, I didn’t think this was supposed to be a bit of hard hitting journalism. It’s too ridiculous. A nation making a massive decision because the nation next door won a competition? Just crazy. No need to reply as it seems I AM in the wrong place.

  • Treebrain

    What a sad and pathetic article?

    Voters in Scotland are considering whether or not a union lasting centuries should end.

    Why would such a puerile article possibly influence the grown-ups who will vote in a few months?

    As an Englishman I have stood in pubs in the East End of Glasgow and watched international football matches and never had a problem as the Scottish values of kindness and hospitality towards guests and visitors have always trumped nationalist feelings.

    The people of Scotland may vote Yes or No to Union but will always retain their kindness and courtesy to visitors whether from England or elsewhere.

    This article is simply crass and embarrassing.

  • templum

    “Now they’re extending fraternal condolences”.

    That’s exactly the point. Scotland’s mindset has moved on from being ‘the surly lodger’ in the Treaty of Union. Scotland’s mindset is now that of a ‘friendly neighbour’.

    In other words Scots already view themselves as distinct from the Rest of the UK. Scotland is now an independent nation in waiting.

    This change of mindset is very good news indeed for the Yes vote.

  • Charles Patrick O’Brien

    Now I am not of a jealous nature and never hated anyone,or any nation,although I am certain England is not a nation,its,like Scotland part of the British nation.Which brings me to the point of the world cup,England we all know “won” the world cup in 1966,and like many other Scots,I was cheering the England team on,ignoring the obvious bias of the referees and dodgy decisions,because after all England were playing for Britain,sure they were! now 48 years later and at every opportunity we hear the England won the world cup in 1966 almost on a daily basis,I was 14 then ,62 now,and I can say that the so called “pundits” commentators have sickened almost everybody I know with the constant reference to ’66.The England team were not good enough to win the world cup without the help of linesmen and referees,and of course the home games all at Wembley no moving around the country for them Eh! well settled in one place and all the practice time that they needed.How have the they done since? qualifying ’66 no need as home nation,’70 no need as holders,’74,? ’78,’82 etc, heard on the TV how England has never been dumped this early since 1958,aye but they never qualified for a few of the finals did they? see the exaggeration of facts that annoys people,cant just admit your team is not as good as you would like it to be,and the world DOES NOT OWE EVERYTHING TO ENGLAND,Oh! and it was a Scotsman who introduced football to Brazil,they even have a statue of him,I think it was Greenock he came from.

  • uberwest

    Just when you think things couldn’t get any worse, along comes Freddy Gray to cheer us all up …

  • Roger Hudson

    How can a serious enduring issue like nationhood depend on a football match or two? Look at the real issues, and they’re not short term monetary advantage either.

  • Liz

    Rooney is Irish

  • smilingvulture

    Gary ,horses head Costa Rica,changing room,wtf

  • smilingvulture

    Gary also order a pizza,just insane

  • smilingvulture

    Gary Lineker wore Italian shirt,Italy v Costa Rica,look forward to write up

  • Pier66

    Ban on CCTV parking fines for unwitting motorists
    The Government will make it illegal from the Autumn to use CCTV cameras to enforce on-street parking ending the plague of parking tickets by post

  • Pier66

    Scotland stay with the Union, and together WE LEAVE EURO SCUM ASAP!

  • Guest

    Oh who cares about the Jocks anyway we need independence from them.

  • Pier66

    Great post from LadyDingDong,
    I will support Murray at Wimbledon, and I really hope he win!
    YNWA AND TORY ALL THE WAY

  • Makroon

    You could say, the ‘comments section’ gets the blog-posts that it deserves.
    Given that this board has long since been taken over by the UKIP ranters with periodic interjections of ‘pace’ by the cyber nats, a responsible editor will enable blog-posts designed to “stimulate” these chappies, to keep the post count up.

    • Wessex Man

      do I moan about you being a fanatic? no, yet you even though you are, seek to paint as.

  • AtMyDeskToday

    Has the Speccy’s “Page 3” moment just arrived?

  • aurila

    disgraceful that the security forces ordered the English players to lose, just to keep the Scottish people happy

  • Kitty MLB

    Oh Freddie,this clearly has gone down like a led
    balloon, so being bad as football as the Scottish
    is good for the union? Rather like united we stand
    united we are knocked out…Oh dear!

  • Maidmarrion

    Dear Lord!
    How old is this writer -12?
    I have read a great deal of drivel in my long life but this has to be up there with the worst.
    This is not a game , this is not about a bunch of athletic lugs kicking a ball brilliantly or dismally round some green stuff.
    This is about democracy , choice and taking care of ones own country and its peoples.
    For the love of sanity could we have some sense from the Better Together side of the argument and not just $hite and spite?

  • dado_trunking

    I am with fully you on this, Freddy. But now we must think this through.
    Given that we have no chance on the international stage we must now merge the teams to an all-England British team, or if that does not suit (why, for Pete’s sake?) at the very least leave FIFA and host our own little six nations tournament comprising England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the national minority of Cornwall and the City of London. I will not deny I personally favour the latter option. Let’s do this, let’s leave the corrupt and utterly totalitarian world behind. Let’s shock and awe the world back, in true UKIP loon fashion. That’ll teach them.

    • Stigenace

      Freddy Gray has written trite nonsense which insults the intelligence of the Scottish and English alike. As for your UKwIP: yawn!

      • dado_trunking

        is now the right time to get up from your office chair from where you have been paper pushing all day and humor me?

        • Wessex Man

          why on earth would anyone want to humour you?

          • dado_trunking

            Because to beat me you would have to beat me at my own game, and that, may I add, is not by ranting at an article that is c l e a r l y designed to be funny.
            ‘patronising nonsense’
            ‘sheer drivel’
            ‘is the author 12?’

            My word, take the broom handles out of your backsides, you miserable ‘experts’. The article is about football, for footy’s sake.

  • OskarMatzerath

    Good grief, what a load of rubbish. Uniquely, you’ve managed to insult both Scots and English people. Well done. I assume you’re Costa Rican.

    • Amanda

      Wow, are you naive! Freddy isn’t telling us what motivates him. He’s commenting on what motivates other people — the masses. And it does. If you find his comments insulting, perhaps you should take those rose-tinted lenses off when looking at your fellow man.

  • Gordon James Cowie

    Never have I read such absolute drivel in my life. What on earth were you thinking when you wrote this piece of garbage? There are English people in Scotland who are voting Yes and with this article you have insulted them because their opinion differs from yours. You are clutching at straws.

  • Jeanne Tomlin

    One of the silliest pieces of tosh I have run into in a campaign that has a lot of deeply silly tosh from unionists.

    • Inverted Meniscus

      I think it was written tongue in cheek and obviously far too subtle for you.

      • Jeanne Tomlin

        Then it seems to be too subtle for anyone who posted a comment.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          You do not honestly believe that progress in a football tournament will determine how people vote. We all know you hate the English and are terminally thick but really.

          • Jeanne Tomlin

            Someone thinking that the only reason millions of Scots want independence for their nation is hatred of the English is what is thick. The world does not revolve around England. Neither do our ambitions for our nation.

            It is this silly article that claims that football has to do with how people vote, not me.

            • Inverted Meniscus

              I don’t think that at all, I just think that you are thick.

              • Jeanne Tomlin

                I am just terribly concerned about your opinion of my intelligence. Oh, wait. No, I’m not.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Of course your not concerned, you are too thick.

                • Jeanne Tomlin

                  Oh, it would be terribly intelligent to be concerned about some trolls insults. *snort*

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Indeed it would but you are too thick for that to be a concern.

  • DaveTheRave

    So – are we Englishmen and women supposed to feel our latest humiliation on the football field is somehow worthwhile, simply to save this precious, defunct, dysfunctional union? I am sick of being called British. I am English, my culture is English, not British.
    I want Scotland to vote YES, I would want Wales to vote YES – THAT would be worthwhile if England as a country was then officially recognised, had a parliament of its own. Perhaps then the ministers of this ridiculous coalition might just stop calling everything that is actually ENGLISH as British.
    Let’s be clear. Great Britain minus Scotland and Wales is NOT STILL BRITAIN. As the Americans might say, do the math. What is left is not an arbitrary collection of EU inspired bite sized, easily controlled regions, it is a nation which was formed by King Arthur and Athelstan, founded in 937AD.
    And by the way, London, despite how many liberal commentators want to describe it, was, is and always will be the capital of England first, then secondly capital of the just still existing United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    • http://google.co.eu Sentinel

      I think Winchester was the first capital of England.

      • Wessex Man

        I don’t mind where, I just want an English Parliament, maybe it should be somewhere near Birmingham Airport with barracks for the MPs and no housing expenses.

        • DaveTheRave

          I hear what your saying and there’s merit in having an English Parliament in the midlands, perhaps historic Tamworth where Offa’s capital was?
          But I still favour a reformed Westminster, it was after all, for most of its history, the home of the English Parliament before 1707. English MPs only in the Commons and the present House of Lords would be either a) House of ‘Lords and Ladies’ (keep the name for historic reasons) comprising of no more than 90 fully elected ‘peers’ from all over UK acting as a second chamber, IF the UK still existed, OR b) about 70 ‘peers’ from all over England acting in similar fashion. ‘Lords’ and ‘Ladies’ could glory in their ceremonial title for the time they are present in parliament only. I wouldn’t want to call them senators.

    • David McKendrick

      Could I just ask what the English National anthem is? Or the English National dress?

      • DaveTheRave

        There is no official English National Anthem – we sing the United Kingdom one.
        There are several contenders to consider for ENA, such as Jerusalem, Land of Hope and Glory, I Vow to Thee My Country etc. but until either we (that is the English) make much more noise and/or the UK government decide that it’s about time the moaning English had something to sing which was their own… we’ll whistle the Great Escape.
        English national dress? No idea, but much of that culture, along with folk songs and tales have largely disappeared. Perhaps bowler hat and black suite would be appropriate in London ;).
        Certain individuals like Vaughan Williams did much to rescue some old music for posterity. The Industrial Revolution and social movement was devastating for English culture, almost as much as the Norman Conquest.

        • David McKendrick

          I like Land of Hope and Glory.
          Just so long as the National costume isn’t Morris men… lol

          • DaveTheRave

            Well, yes, I concur.
            That said, I’m rather fond of Morris men, especially some of the more eccentric ones. Such fun! … but that shouldn’t be a national costume, I agree.

            • Kitty MLB

              I quite like the Welsh national costume especially the hats.I might be wrong but unlike
              the Scottish, the Welsh hardly seem to wear
              their costumes.

              • Amanda

                I really wonder about those costumes… are they real, or are they a bit confected for those that wanted to see a ‘Welsh national costume’?

                • Kitty MLB

                  Maybe the latter, for most of these costumes, I suppose its
                  quaint and touristy, as well as making countries feel unique.
                  But the Welsh national costume ( only for women) of the hat
                  and red shawl was worn by most poor country women at
                  during the early nineteenth century. But I suppose now its
                  just sometimes worn occasionally for the sake of tradition.

          • Amanda

            Having a folk costume is of no importance, and I’m rather relieved we don’t…. : )

            • David McKendrick

              Would you like to tell that to the millions of Scots and those of Scottish ancestry throughout the world who wear the tartan at every opportunity? I rather think that Scots like to be recognised for their Ancestry and nationality by wearing the kilt whether they are in Scotland or indeed anywhere in the world. Of course wearing a bowler hat wouldn’t be quite the same so I understand your inability to comprehend the importance of having a national dress, national music and a national anthem. Although I do see a glimmer of that patriotism at the last night of the proms….

              • Amanda

                Oh, I meant nothing against tartan: as mentioned elsewhere on this thread, I’ve registered with the Scottish Register of Tartans two of my own design. I simply meant that the English costume would have to be something different, and it would be something more artificial, and we would probably look ridiculous in it.

        • Fergus Pickering

          What is the Scottish national dress? Kilts and stuff are Highland dress, nothing to do with Scotland.

          • Moderator

            Quite right, kilts and tartan were for poor country peasants and no self respecting town or city dweller would be seen dead in such dress…equating Scotland and kilts is just plain wrong.

            • Amanda

              Historically yes, but now, no. Tartan is the homely Scottish achievement to round out their high-flown political, scientific, and philosophical achievements (as a nation they were late to bloom and then exploded with talent, such as is rarely seen in any people). Other people may have designed stripes on warp and weft, but no one’s made an institution of it like the Scots (declaration of interest: I designed two tartans myself, last year, which are officially registered with Scotland).

              • Treebrain

                Yes indeed, Scots were late to bloom but then massively enriched themselves by their ardent involvement in the slave trade, followed by blockade busting to support the South in the American Civil War and then by smuggling alcohol to the US during the Prohibition era.

                What a proud heritage to reflect upon?

                • Amanda

                  Considering the depravity of H-mo sapiens in general, I’d say their international record was stained but not black. If we use up words to condemn the Scots we’ll have none left for all the real haters and slavers that live by hatred and slavery to this day…. You are hitting at people that in truth were minor players. If you hate slavery there are much fatter targets to go after!

                  As for smuggling alcohol: Prohibition was stupid, undemocratic, and in my view not even moral. So I’m firmly with the Scots on that!

                  The world would be much better off if every person had a Scot’s sense of decency, do-unto-others, curiosity, and love of life. I’m all for ’em, even though I am also for Great Britain as it stands.

                • Treebrain

                  Amanda,

                  Weasel words at best?

                  You condone the role of Scots in the slave trade, ignore their depravity in profiteering during the American Civil Wear and condone breaking Prohibition and, in absolute ignorance of the democratic process in the US that bought about Prohibition, claim it was ‘undemocratic’!

                  If you had seen the harm done by excessive alcohol consumption in Scotland you might not be so quick to condemn Prohibition?

                • Amanda

                  Prohibition was a bad idea and a silly law — even worse, they made it part of the national constitution! They must have known it couldn’t last: you can’t outlaw a facet of civilization. It’s also antithetical to the ways of a free people.

                • Ian

                  I think you can safely say that most supposedly enlightened countries were involved with the abominable slave trade, indeed, some countries still are. Back then they didn’t know better.

                • Amanda

                  At least Britain, and the United States after it (with a much greater struggle costing nearly three quarters of a million lives) reasoned their way to a rejection of slavery — the only societies to do so in the history of the world. Most human societies have accepted slavery without any qualms at all. And as you say, slavery still exists throughout the planet.

                • Fraziel

                  And England werent involved in the slave trade at all of course.

              • Kitty MLB

                You designed two tartans yourself good for you. I have recently been told that the Irish have
                kilts ( green kilts) I like the Cornish kilts.

                • Amanda

                  Ladies look lovely in tartan, and I’m sure you do, too. : )

          • Amanda

            WERE Highland dress (except when it wasn’t — another story best told by Hugh Trevor Roper), WAS nothing to do with Scotland: but times have moved on : )

            • Fergus Pickering

              Fancy dress, as I said. Childish and suitable for a Nation of children.

          • Treebrain

            Fergus,

            Well said!

            Every since the German immigrant Queen Victoria embraced the artifice of Walter Scott, the tawdry trappings of fake pageantry have been paraded in order to legitimise the Saxe-Coburg Gothas but they now face the choice of having to decide whether they are English or Scottish should the Scots vote for independence.

            • Kitty MLB

              I understand that Scottish regiments during
              WW1 wore kilts and terrified the Germans
              but kilts were banned during WW2 as they were
              not seen as appropriate for war clothing.

              • Treebrain

                Any evidence that Scots regiments ‘terrified’ the Germans?

                As for WWII, do read up about the 51st Highland Division in France?

            • Fergus Pickering

              The Scots always find someone to blame, don’t they?

        • Ian

          I would go with Jerusalem. Just phenomenal. I just wish it had been written by a Scot.

          • Amanda

            I would, too. It certainly is treated that way. But everyone seems to be forgetting ‘God Save The Queen’. I’ve always thought of her as Queen of England above all.

  • alabenn

    This is pathetic, when in your life have England done well in a football, there are very few anywhere who can remember.

    For the Englishmen who love the Union, this is some consolation
    , no Englishmen would love the union, real Englishmen love England and secretly hope that the rest of the UK would be like us, just to polite to say so.

    • Stigenace

      …when in your life have England done well in a football, there are very few anywhere who can remember.

      Very few? Have you any idea how many over-55s there are and how many of them can actually remember the ’66 World Cup? Millions!

    • Pier66

      No I’am not agree with that at all

  • HookesLaw

    Was Mr Gray drunk when he wrote this?

    • alabenn

      Intoxicated with his own verbosity.

    • Kitty MLB

      Maybe drunk on distress and trying to find
      a silver lining.

    • Inverted Meniscus

      No he had his tongue in his cheek though.

      • Jeanne Tomlin

        So you keep saying, but you’re the only one who sees it.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          You really are thick aren’t you.

  • weescamp

    Patronising nonsense. If anything England’s failure in the World Cup will reinforce the views of many Scots that the UK is in terminal decline and the faster we get out of this dead end union the better!

    But – in reality – it won’t make any difference except in the exceptionally small mind of Freddy Gray whoever he is.

    • DaveTheRave

      I concur.

    • Makroon

      So, on that logic, world champions Spain are ‘on the rise’ ?
      The 24% unemployed will be relieved.

      • Pier66

        spain are on SLIDE

  • victor67

    This is an English myth that the yes campaign is just about parochial nationalism, anti-English sentiment and the SNP. In reality its about how Scotland can utilize its wealth to best serve its people. Its simple do Scots trust the London political elite or can it make its own decisions to address the concerns of its citizens better than those in Westminister. Its got nothing to do with football and suggesting that displays an incredible misunderstanding of the Scots
    All the no campaign have is fear. You will lose the £, You will lose the EU and more.

    • alabenn

      No, it is a myth in the minds of the children who inhabit the world around Westminster.
      We English do not trust the London political elite, in fact we basically hate them, the only parameter we use when voting is, who we hate the least.
      That is one thing we have in common with Scotland.

      • Pier66

        We English do not trust the London political elite, in fact we basically hate them….we? write for you please!

    • Alexsandr

      Scotland will surely lose the £.
      But why do they want it. A country is not independent without its own currency.

      • victor67

        You make my point. But how Independent is any country with globalization?
        What those South of the border don’t get about the Yes campaign is that it speaks to the losers in Scotland in our neo-liberal utopia.
        What is Westminster offering us? A privatised NHS, Schools run for profit. zero hours contracts, more child poverty and to top it all nuclear Submarines and more foreign war where the the “Brave jocks will be first into battle to prop up pax Americana”
        If you are unemployed and live in a council house in Easterhouse does all that appeal to you?
        The point of the yes campaign is to speak to the disaffected and say it won’t be easy but we can have a more just society that does not serve multi-nationals and the super rich.
        The yes campaign is also not an abandonment of the English working class. It could be a catalyst for them.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          This debate about ‘losing the pound’ is a nonsense. We English can no more stop Scotland from using Sterling than we can stop Bhutan, Senegal or East Timor from doing so because Sterling is a freely tradable and convertible currency. What informed English people, or Welsh and Northern Irish for that matter, object to is a currency union with a post independent Scotland. This would require the UK taxpayer to underwrite the newly issued public debt of a foreign country whilst having no control over how much debt is raised and for how long. Acting as ‘lender of last resort’ to a foreign country’s banks would be equally insane. English, Welsh and Northern Irish objection to a currency union is perfectly rational and has nothing to do with scaremongering etc etc. You might like to ask yourself why Salmond’s response to this rejection was quite so hysterical and came with threats to renege on Scotland’s share of the national debt (meaningless because the UK Treasury has already promised to guarantee all of the debt even if Scotland becomes independent).

          • David McKendrick

            I notice it was American banks who bailed out Barclays Bank despite them not being the “lender of last resort” and Barclays being based in London. They did this because Barclays had bought a lot of USA’s toxic debt and the American banks might have failed if Barclays was allowed to go under.

        • Makroon

          So the Scot Nats are socialists, are they ?
          Only in your dreams.

          • victor67

            Some are but compared to England, Scotland is a left wing country and many on the left support Independence who do not like Salmond and the SNP. If you listen to the English media you would be excused for thinking voting yes is a vote for the SNP. Its a lot more than that.

          • Jeanne Tomlin

            In Scotland, the SSP and pretty much all socialists are for independence, a simple fact.

        • Wessex Man

          Oh do grow up ‘What those South of the border don’t get about the Yes Campaign ad infinitum’

          The majority of the people south of you border don’t care one way or the other if you go or if you stay, the rest like myself are so keen for you to go I have even offered one of your contributors to come on up and help the Yes Campaign.

          You have to convince the majority of the Scottish Electorate to vote yes, so just go out there and do it.

          • victor67

            Perhaps but your political class are crapping themselves about a yes vote. They no it would impact heavily on the UK economy and weaken UK status on the world stage.

          • David McKendrick

            I am really mystified as to why David Cameron et al want to keep Scotland in the Union? Scotland only has one Conservative MP so surely the Conservative government should want to jettison the 40+ Labour MPs in Scotland. What is in the Union for England?

            • uberwest

              If Scotland leaves the Union, Scotch patriot Camoron won’t be able to shovel money over the border quite as easily, will he?

      • Jeanne Tomlin

        That is utter nonsense. First, £ is an internationally traded currency. Any nation can use it if they so choose. Second, having a currency is not what makes a nation independent. Ireland, for example, continued to use the £ for 7 years after independence. New Zealand used it for several years after independence. A number of nations have currency unions.

        • Alexsandr

          a currency union of equals could work.

          but scotland would be a very minor partner in a union, and would effectively have subcontracted its fiscal policy to London.
          Or they could use the £ but not be in a union. So would have no say on interest rates, – again London would be controlling scotlands fiscal policy

      • David McKendrick

        How would that apply to the countries of Europe that have their own Parliaments but all use the Euro?

        • Alexsandr

          sorry. do you consider the members of the Euro to be independant states? Really???? Does an independant state have its bidgets approved by another body?

      • Charles Patrick O’Brien

        When we were unified we brought OUR £ to the union and we shall take it with us when we DISSOLVE THE UNION,cant have a union of one,think it through.

        • Alexsandr

          do tell me where you will get the assets to back your £. There is a stack of gold in the bank of England, and other assets to back the currency held by the bank of England.
          (Scottish banknotes are backed by an equivalent amount of bank of England notes. The 3 issuing Scottish banks hold these special high value notes.)

    • Makroon

      Ha-ha, that’s like some earnest middle-class academic in Damascus trying to convince us that the anti-al Assad insurrection is nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalism.

      • victor67

        Scotland does have its share of xenophobic neds as do most countries. Like in England, however with the EDL/UKIP/BNP axis they are a small vocal minority.

    • Pier66

      You will lose the £, You will lose the EU and more…..but most of that…
      you could lose our BRITISH CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!
      YNWA AND TORY ALL THE WAY

    • Aberrant_Apostrophe

      “You will lose the £, You will lose the EU and more.”

      Those are positives?

  • http://aworkingclassman.com/ Working Class Man

    Pathetic dribble imho

    • Inverted Meniscus

      It is called satire old boy.

      • Michele Keighley

        I don’t think they understand satire IM 😉

  • LadyDingDong

    If the union is so fragile that we must lose at football to avoid upsetting the Scots then it is time to dissolve it. Should we English hope for an early exit for Murray?

    • DaveTheRave

      I concur. Well said.

    • Blindsideflanker

      Well said. If partners in Union cannot tolerate any successes of their fellow countrymen, and only feel comfortable in their failure, then it is a really rotten Union.

      We get the same argument of why the English can’t have their own Parliament, because we are told the Union can’t survive giving English people equality, which means the Union can only survive on inequity, and again makes it a really rotten Union.

    • Makroon

      We’ve had a cricket, and rugby whitewash, as well as the football debacle (middle-class bias alert ?) so we can unite in misery. I expect Murray will be Murray, so malignant spells will be superfluous.

  • Bill Cruickshank

    Sheer drivel. Insulting to both English and Scots alike. Author may claim to have lived in Scotland but obviously he didn’t learn much about the country. He obviously knows nothing about how Scots are engaging in the independence debate or the positivity the YES campaign is generating.

    • monty61

      Positivity? the Yes campaign? What planet are you on? Try taking a pro-union position in public and you’ll find how ‘positive’ the Gnats can be. Ask JK Rowling for starters.

      • David McKendrick
      • Charles Patrick O’Brien

        No need long before that story got spun,we have had most of our pro-independence politicians threatened and some have received bomb material via the post bullets too,we know all about threats of violence and some have even attacked us an elderly pro-independence man with a placard,was attacked by unionist bullies two years ago,you know little of what you speak of and come over as one who wont want to know as an old friend of mine did say,”He is to ignorant to even know he is ignorant” I wont explain as I don’t think you would understand.

        • Fergus Pickering

          You are making all this up. You are like children in the playground. ‘Please Miss he kicked me!’

        • Fraziel

          I am sure some of the pro independence politicians and supporters have been threatened and abused but its small beer to whats being done and said by yes supporters. As for the bombs and bullets, i think you will find that was not in any way related to the independence campaign but was a couple of anti catholic bigots,unless there have been more bombs and bullets but that would be strange as there hasnt been a single thing reported in the press here about that. Telling lies doesnt help.

    • sunnydayrider

      There’s no more positvity than that from the English. Wer’e all for a “Yes” vote. Ta-ta Jocks.

    • telemachus

      He is right
      The pea brains around Ibrox and Celtic Park only love the English when they have been beaten by Andorra
      They detest the fact that Gary Linaker an ex England Captain has such a prominent TV focus
      They love the Premier league only because it’s success is due to foreign players often led by Scots (Ferguson is a National Hero)
      Rooney is the Antichrist

      • Makroon

        Now that the terminally boring and out-of-touch “token Scot”, Alan Hansen is finally about to retire (Frank Sinatra style), the Scots will resent Lineker even more. No doubt the BBC is desperately hunting for another Scot right now. Neil Lennon would be kind of divisive.

      • Pier66

        Well, I’m not agree with that at all…there are lots of Scots friend, fair friends open mind with English people…, depends from your background, cultural roots, education you can not hate you neighbour
        specially a nice country as Scotland…they give us so much champions in Liverpool team…

        • Michele Keighley

          Pop across to The Scotsman’s report and read the foam flecked slavering over England exit! I would call them neither fair, friendly or open! And my background, cultural roots and education are all fine thank you,

          • jelliedeels

            cant you take a joke ?

          • Charles Patrick O’Brien

            Thats a fine Irish name you have!

            • uberwest

              What’s oirish about it? Keighley is a town in West Yorkshire.

  • Hexhamgeezer

    ‘Just think of all the hooliganism’?

    It’s 2014 not 1984.

Close
Can't find your Web ID? Click here