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We need to know much more about ISIS’s ‘British’ jihadists

19 June 2014

1:15 PM

19 June 2014

1:15 PM

The social media exchanges of British jihadis in Syria and Iraq, as just revealed, are perfectly riveting, don’t you think? Fancy worrying about things like where to leave your luggage and internet connections when you’re a jihadi. There’s scope here for TripAdviser.

But when it comes to jihadists from Britain, I’d rather like a bit more pertinent information about them than their currency exchange problems. I rather get the impression it’s BBC policy to describe the Brits fighting for ISIS and similar just as British citizens, or Britons, presumably on the basis that to describe them as being something like ‘of Pakistani/Nigerian/Syrian origin’ would invidiously distinguish between one citizen and another and somehow compromise their civic standing. But I think it tells us a good deal about the problem to know where people come from. If an Islamist is, say, a recent Nigerian immigrant or Muslim convert, it is a pertinent and interesting piece of information – though, to be fair, the BBC does sometimes describe Islamist terrorists as ‘Muslim converts’. Indeed, I’d quite like to know something about how Islamists actually come here and become British citizens – if they came originally as asylum seekers, or as beneficiaries of those periodic Home Office amnesties, well, it would tell us something quite useful about policy in this area.

It may be that we have absolutely no idea where someone like the amusingly named AbuHussainAlBritaini (billed on Twitter as Random British Mujahid) comes from but once we do, I think broadcasters should abandon the notion that they’re blanket Brits and be specific about their or their family’s culture and country of origin. It may of course be that like ‘the White Widow’, Samantha Lewthwaite, they’re British/Irish, in which case their marriage and conversion is the interesting feature. The more we know the better. And yes obviously it applies to other situations too: if I had ever been arrested in an Irish republican context, I should rather have expected my origins and religion to be disclosed.

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Show comments
  • StephanieJCW

    ” I think broadcasters should abandon the notion that they’re blanket Brits and be specific about their or their family’s culture and country of origin.”

    Why on earth is anybody’s “family origins” relevant unless you’re a vile racist? What is the cut off point at which their family origin ceases to be relevant (grandparents/great-grandparents etc).

    Surely their family’s culture is British, unless you’re one of those people who thinks to be British one must necessarily be white?

  • StephanieJCW

    ” If an Islamist is, say, a recent Nigerian immigrant or Muslim convert,”

    If they aren’t a recent immigrant then why on earth is it pertinent. They’re just Brits. Be gone with your two tier British-ness.

  • anncalba

    Seems in the US they have no problem talking about Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, Afro-Americans. Don’t see what’w wrong with Pakistani-British, Chinese British etc. Meanwhile, the rest of us can be English, Welsh, Scots and Ulster British if we want to be specific.

    • Simon_in_London

      The US media do normally disguise the race of non-white criminals, though. Disguising the ethnicity of Jihadis may be the British equivalent of that.

  • Sam

    I am nominally a Hindu thought not religious.

    Anyway I don’t much like Hindus – I mean they worship idols & one of their gods has a monkey face. Oh and I don’t like Christians either- I mean you have to be pretty intellectually destitute to believe a virgin gave birth. Oh, lest I forget, I don’t like Jews either – I mean it’s all money, money, money……

    Voltaire said

    “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

    I know my place in Britain today!

    • la catholic state

      If you think Christians are intellectually destitude….why didn’t you stay in a Hindu country?! I believe in the Virgin birth….and Im more intellectual than you.

      • Sam

        Do you know what ‘irony’ means? Read it again

        • la catholic state

          Oh OK. My bad.

          • Sam

            No probs – hey I’ll even concede you’re still more intellectual than me

      • Daidragon

        You know the virgin birth story was a mistranslation from Aramaic to Greek don’t you? Mary was described as a young woman, not a virgin, in the earliest scriptures. So 2000 years of madness, misogyny and shame heaped on women all because of a typo. Religion is evil.

  • Michael H Kenyon

    I’d like any “British” jihadis (and any proven enablers) to lose their passports and citizenship.

  • Last Man Standing

    Islam is already embedded among us. It is not neutral. The Spectator has already reported that British Islam is among the most extreme. We need to remove all Muslims from positions of power and influence, and insist that all sermons are recorded and monitored, and ban all Islamic activity in politics and social management.

    There are hundreds of Muslim killers from the UK in the Middle East now. How many hundreds and thousands more haven’t gone but share the same views and agenda?

  • Ted Cunterblast

    Ah, the glories of diversity, multiculturalism, and mass third world immigration invasion.

    • you_kid

      you’re ginger! That means you’re not from round ‘ere yourself, lad.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …but you’ve got a few sockpuppet relatives further up in this discussion, lad.

  • zanzamander

    BBC in Jeremy Vine did a wonderful thing yesterday. As you probably know, poor white children are lagging behind kids from minority backgrounds in GCSEs:

    White British 32% (28.3% boys; 37% girls)
    Indian 62%
    Black African 51%
    Pakistani 47%
    Black Caribbean 42%

    So what does BBC do? Keeping in mind all the bad publicity Islam and Pakistan has been getting recently (what with Islamic takeover of schools by Pakistani governors and sons of Pakistani parents going to fight jihad to name just two), Jeremy Vine, in order to redress the balance offered us an alternative view of the above stats by elevating the Pakistani kids’ performance to the top.

    This is despite the fact that study after study has shown that within the minority groups, kids from Pakistan and Bangladesh are consistently at the bottom of this group and are more likely to get involved in anti-social activities, drugs etc.

    So you see, BBC are keen to draw our attention to origins and religions of people of certain backgrounds, but only when doing so would bring us some good news, even when they have to “play” with the stats a wee bit. Otherwise they’re all “Asians”.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Why are poor white children being compared to Indians? Or are all the Indians poor?

      • balance_and_reason

        To be fair, the piece in question was comparing poor chinese, indians, etc against poor white performance, which was very poor, so that no excuse could be made as to relative wealth……of course a relatively cultured indian family arriving from Bengal could still be considered poor compared to the middle class here but as a family have a tradition of education and personal investment that then elevates them more quickly, taking advantage of the free education etc. This is particularly relevant to chinese origin folk, where culture is work work work as far as schooling is concerned.
        The flaw in socialist thinking is that you take a family that has no history of education, and by offering them all the perks of the modern welfare state you have a merchant banker and a lawyer……sadly reality doesn’t work like that….it takes, for the average, generations to lift people out of ignorant, lottery loving, BGT enjoying, roll out the barrel bliss.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Fair enough re poverty. So why are poor whites useless, then? Is it someone else’s fault? I am inclined to think not, just as it is nobody else’s fault that gypsies incline to thieving.and celts to misty-eyed dreaming.Not a fashionable belief. Racist probably..

          • Damaris Tighe

            Poor white kids often come from homes without structure & boundaries. They are put into schools without structure & boundaries. Research has shown that poor white pupils, sorry, students do better under an old-fashioned formal teaching regime. Modern education methods have been disastrous for the white underclass.

  • zanzamander

    Looks like I said something Disqus didn’t like :(

  • dado_trunking

    We wilfully ignore that ‘British’ jihadists have existed for decades.
    They brought great wealth to the towns of Canary Wharf and cities like Manchester which were rebuilt after their repeated efforts to better us. Neither of the two places listed have looked back since. So it’s all good.

  • Graeme S

    Yes, your right we need to know more about these people … such as where they live, when did they go and more importantly when are they coming back so they can be arrested. But that would be way too easy ……….. if these are British then I am monkeys Uncle

    • telemachus

      Not arrested
      Embraced and reintegrated after their misguided youthful episode

  • Hexhamgeezer

    It seems essential that if our society is ‘multicultural’ we are told which cultures’ individuals are responsible for which actions. Otherwise how are we to ‘celebrate’ each culture’s contributions? Like all those charity workers in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq. I would hate to take the credit for that.

    • telemachus

      We are all British
      We should forget where we came from and try to think where we wish to go

      • the viceroy’s gin

        How about you go with an escort to the hangman?

        • Alexsandr

          do people usually take prostitutes when they are to be executed? :)

          • Hexhamgeezer

            .only the well hung (Phnaar)

      • Hexhamgeezer

        Forget where we came from? Good idea – lets end our recognition of dual nationality.

  • Colonel Mustard

    Being concerned about young jihadis returning to the UK with plans to bomb or behead us for being infidels is positively Islamophobic.
    *
    Why, the young socialists who went to fight against Franco in the Spanish Civil War were no different and returned as heroes.
    *
    We should celebrate the diversity of their alienation and welcome the enrichment of their return and all that it offers.

    • telemachus

      Further
      We should strike campaign medals for them

      • Colonel Mustard

        Pity that Islamophobiaphobic bee in your bonnet doesn’t extend to pity for their innocent victims.

      • Colonel Mustard

        No, you proposed that before you edited your own post. Originally you wrote:-

        “Further we should strike campaign medals for them”.

        There is nothing about campaign medals in my tongue-in-cheek comment lampooning your first comment here. Soldiers earn campaign medals and those scum are not soldiers. Real soldiers do not torture and murder unarmed and helpless enemy combatants.

        • telemachus

          I say again that the ISiS so called Army are nothing more that animals who deserve the fate of animals
          They try to appear attractive to the young of England that have had their heads turned
          Our job
          Your job
          Is not to rest until we have stopped the radicalisation of our vulnerable young
          I love my country
          I love the ethnic and religious mix
          When I stay with my children in London I get a buzz from the lively multicultural
          These monsters threaten all that

          • Colonel Mustard

            Let’s hope a buzz is all you get from the “lively multicultural”.

            The first step in combatting radicalisation is to stop devaluing our language and inhibiting honest debate with silly constructs like “Islamophobia”. That plays right to the extremists game. I have seen it all before with Vietnam. And the victims are always truth and objectivity.

          • balance_and_reason

            they come with the territory

      • Colonel Mustard

        You keep editing that comment!

  • swatnan

    Too right. Anyone suspected on return from Syria etc, put them in quarantine for 6 months, our own mini Guantanamo in Basingstoke, and grill them. If they pass the ordeals, only then let them go. These terrorists are a complete waste of space.

    • telemachus

      I know
      Tie their hands and feet and throw them into the Thames
      If they sink they were OK
      If they float they are guilty and must be garotted

      • itdoesntaddup

        I presume that idea came from your latest jihadi trip.

  • la catholic state

    What the world needs now in response to this new Jihadi evil…..is the right of everyone to bear arms. The constant carnage is getting too much….with no end in sight. Arm people….and let them defend themselves. That is our right!

    • telemachus

      What we need is a calm measured appraisal of the situation
      *
      Followed by a positive drive for community cohesion within our land

      • la catholic state

        We’ve been doing that forever….and obviously terrorists are quaking in their boots at the thought of it. So scary….no?!

        • telemachus

          One of the sources of our greatness is that we are measured and tolerant
          Yet strong
          I would not wish to live in a boring single race single culture single religion state

          • Colonel Mustard

            Suggest you go and join your ISIS comrades in Iraq then.

            • telemachus

              ISIS are criminals driven by Shiaislamophobia
              And worse than you and related posters
              But only by degree
              A few impressionable kids in Birmingham get taken in
              We need t

              • telemachus

                They need our compassion on their return

                • la catholic state

                  They won’t get mine!

              • Colonel Mustard

                What a strange world your head lives in.

              • P_S_W

                A few?

              • Hexhamgeezer

                ‘Shiaislamophobia’………. Is that kebab poisoning?

          • la catholic state

            The only source of our greatness was Christianity. That’s gone now….so all these airy fairy solutions that we keep dreaming up against the mighty force of Islam are truly laughable.

            And we can’t base our plans on your likes and dislikes. Other things are more important. Duh.

            • dado_trunking

              Gone? How you are mistaken!
              I stated it before and will repeat it now:
              In the meantime the Roman Catholics are christening and confirming youth as if there was no tomorrow.

              Needless to assert where most of these Catholics originate from. Jihadism works. The Catholics are here to prove it.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …so, lad, it’s sounds sorta like you and your army of sockpuppets, who you are christening and confirming as if there was no tomorrow.

              • la catholic state

                Interesting…..if a little cryptic.

          • balance_and_reason

            None of the schools of education until the socialist infection of the education system in the recent decades, taught that we should tolerate other cultures taking over large sections of our country. Yet it did teach reading and writing, self reliance and regard for others within a christian framework…that is what made this country what it is and what has attracted all the immigration in the first place …..better stick to tried and tested.

  • anyfool

    These people are no more British than white people born in Africa are African.
    They should be refused re-entry and have their passports removed.

    • telemachus

      You are a crazy man
      I have Huguenot antecedents
      So am I French
      These folks are, albeit misguided, British
      Further they are no different from the Spanish International Brigade
      *
      Would you have denied re entry to George Orwell?

      • La Fold

        “Further they are no different from the Spanish International Brigade”
        And look how that turned out.

        • telemachus

          That is not the issue
          We are talking impressionable young kids who any fool wants to lock out of England

          • McRobbie

            And some fool wants to wrap his arms around them and let them blow us up, or behead us, or stone us to death….women first of course!

            • telemachus

              They do indeed need embracing and reintegration back into our society
              They have mothers sisters and brothers here

              • Colonel Mustard

                And their victims had mothers and sisters and children there.

          • Fraziel

            They should be hanged.

          • La Fold

            Turn it in flower, you were the one comparing them to the International Brigades. So if that isnt the issues, what is your point caller?

          • La Fold

            Having to completely reedit posts? Youre on the ropes now tele!

            • telemachus

              Damascus

      • Fergus Pickering

        They are different in a number of ways. They are brown. They are muslim. They wish to kill us.

        • telemachus

          No
          You cannot lambast folk on grounds of colour or religion
          They do not want to kill us
          Most have confused ideas and like the international brigade volunteers want to go off on a foreign adventure
          Most come home disillusioned and are glad to be back in comfortable England

          • Reconstruct

            I’m not at all persuaded that they don’t want to kill us. What grounds do you have for your confidence?

            • telemachus

              They are by and large impressionable young boys who are glad to be back home
              Just as the returnees from Spain in 1939

              • Colonel Mustard

                And you know this how? Do the security forces know of your involvement with these terrorists?

                • telemachus

                  Colonel
                  *
                  Like you I detest terrorists
                  *
                  I have no time for The Evil Men who promote Jihad
                  *
                  I regret these impressionable young men are drawn into all this
                  *
                  But equally I abhor the outpouring of righteous indignation in the media instead of cold reasoned analysis
                  *
                  The stupidity of the reaction to the Birmingham School Governor debacle did more for recruitment to these evil causes than 10 Mullahs

                • Colonel Mustard

                  No, unfortunately you don’t. If you don’t support them then you defend them, make excuses for their actions and try to pin the responsibility for those actions on the revulsion it generates, which is to twist reason beyond reason.

                  To compare their war crimes and atrocities to comments on a blog “by degree” – or to football hooligans – is perhaps one of the most deranged examples of relativism that might be imagined.

                  If that kind of barbaric sectarian violence ever arises here, beyond the isolated examples so far seen, it will be because of people like you.

                • telemachus

                  I detest and abhor terrorism
                  What I see is media hysteria
                  What I see is foolish Muslim kids turned by Mullahs
                  Our job is to prevent this turning and protect our children Muslim or otherwise from indoctrination

                • Daidragon

                  And the turning of other young heads by fascism.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Well, the Labour party excel at that.

              • CharlietheChump

                We look forward to you standing at Luton airport welcoming them home

              • la catholic state

                Tell that to the families of their victims…..you cold-blooded evil creep!

            • Donafugata

              Al-Telemani is one of them, why, only last week he put a fatwa on Gove saying, “….. he must be destroyed”

              • telemachus

                That Donafuguta is the wish of most teachers

          • Colonel Mustard
            • Inverted Meniscus

              I think that should be ‘on every thread’ Colonel.

          • Fergus Pickering

            You amaze me, but better late than never. Welcome to the side of civilisation and decency.

            • telemachus

              Reflection and change are part of the makeup of any reasonable character
              We must show solidarity with Cameron and Security forces views on this

              • Fergus Pickering

                Fatted calf being wheeled out right now, Tele.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Change of heart! What you really need is a change of brain.

        • Terry Field

          The Brown bit does not matter, but the Moslem, and the killing bit is really quite persuasive – add in Halal, didactic certainty, stupefying ignorance and prejudiced malevolence, and the picture would make one immediately recall all five hundred or so passports and deny re-entry for ever.
          But one would need to not be weak to do such a good thing.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Certainly the brown bit does not matter to me. But it is a way that they are different which is what Tele asked for.

    • la catholic state

      Our politicians and elites must put the British public first….and forget about political correctness. Any atrocities committed will have to be blamed on Cameron, our government and elites if they let them back in!

      • telemachus

        They have the same rights to return as you do when you have been to the Costa Del Sol
        And certainly as much right as the Football Lager Louts that disgrace this country every time they go abroad
        *
        God help us if Uraguay win tonight

        • la catholic state

          They shouldn’t have. I don’t go abroad to commit atrocities against others….nor am I a threat to others when I come back. Those that are, must be quarantined.

          • telemachus

            The way I see it in Fulham pubs when Chelsea are at home the football supporters, all of whom are white and no doubt have crosses around their necks are very much a threat to my life and limb

            • la catholic state

              They must be the salt of the earth then, if they have their Crosses on.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          It is Uruguay you uneducated moron.

      • Daidragon

        Would you like to start committing atrocities then? Don’t forget this is a protestant country and we won’t put up with any nonsense from armed papists. Remember remember the 5th of nov.

        • la catholic state

          Go join the Islamists then….you little anti-Christ. England needs to return to its richer, stronger pre-Reformation Faith, the Catholic one. The one that birthed the Crusaders.

          • Daidragon

            Know your place Papist filth. This is a protestant country. Never forget it or you’ll be sorted out after the muslims have all been exterminated. I hope I’m doing this right old chap? This is how we speak in the new Albion isn’t it?

            • la catholic state

              !

            • Eral@erdalik.com

              Your from Northern Ireland aren’t you, the Catholics are no longer the enemy you know, it’s the immigrants, as a person of Irish and Protestant ancestry I’m one of your type but when the blacks and Pakistanis and Chinese take Belfast, you’ll have a worse enemy. The British government does not even care about your people, Indians and Chinese are much cheaper to hire and our people are dispensable, the sad fact

          • La Fold

            “The one that birthed the Crusaders” And look how that turned out for Edward the 1st.

          • balance_and_reason

            No we don’t …….long live the memory and reputation of Henry VIII…he’s saved us a lot of cash and grief.

      • balance_and_reason

        we need to convert the Catholics too though.

        • la catholic state

          Catholics are the one true Faith!

  • Usawme
    • anyfool

      Of course they will object, these sewer rats are bought and paid for by the Saudi`s.
      Ask Blair where most of his millions came from, do you think Bush senior gave a toss about the Kuwaitis, ask Cameron why he wanted to pimp the British armed forces to these terror groups in Syria.
      The Saudi`s are the ones we should be bombing if you think anything of that nature will do any good.

      • telemachus

        I detect not just Islamophobia but a profound visceral hatred of the Arabs
        Most Muslims I know are peace loving and have interests not very different from me, my wife and my children
        *
        There is a dangerous hysteria gripping the media
        *
        We must all kick against it

        • anyfool

          If you knew any Arabs you would hate them too, they are by and large responsible for all the terrorism in the Muslim world, a Muslim world that hates the Arabs more that any white supremacist could ever muster, the energy needed to generate that kind of hate is what has prevented any advancement of Muslim nations since this vile political creed was created, that is the reason they are stuck hundreds of years behind the civilised world.
          I do not have a visceral hate of Arabs, I hold them in complete contempt, they are not worth the emotional effort needed to hate.
          You on the other hand judging by your puerile and nasty mind need hate, to give yourself some justification for your own existence.

          • Daidragon

            What a cesspit your mind is.

        • Nick

          Yes but how do you do that if the Mullahs forbid British Muslim children from associating with people of a different religion??? I can’t disagree that many of these kids find the whole thing very exciting – presumably it’s much more fun to be a jihadi than to work in your dad’s shop or a call centre – but THEIR FAMILIES DO NOT WANT THEM TO ASSIMILATE.

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