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The Guardianista mind-set

14 June 2014

6:49 PM

14 June 2014

6:49 PM

A moron has written a letter to The Guardian. I realise that this is not ground-breaking news. In the journalistic canon it is very much “dog bites man”, sure. But this brief letter exemplifies the mind-set of these awful, stunted, absolutist people. The letter was from a man called Conor Whitworth, and was in regard to a “Q&A” piece the in the Guardian magazine the previous week about the cyclist Chris Froome, one of those pieces where a sleb has to answer fatuous questions. Here’s Conor’s letter in full:

Morals are important to Chris Froome, he says in his Q&A. Wonder why he lives in Monaco?” – Conor Whitworth, Nottingham.

And that’s it. If you live in Monaco, you cannot have morals. Regular readers here will know that I’m rather leftie on all tax-related business. I don’t approve of tax avoidance and think we should have a higher rate of taxation for the highest earners and inflict rather greater punishment on those who avoid paying their whack. But that’s my view, an opinion. I don’t think that people who disagree with me are immoral, or amoral. I think they have a point – but just believe that they are wrong. But with people like Conor – and The Guardian in general – if you don’t subscribe to their shibboleths, you are scum.

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Show comments
  • Steve

    Honestly, if your answer to the extreme bigots on one end of the spectrum is to be a sort of ironic parody on the other end, then you still lose.

    “Left~Right” war is lame. In all things you should aim for the middle-ground and outside of hard fact, only politically motivated bellends deal in absolutes.

  • Julie Hill

    I think that the cynical and jaded hack Mr Liddle, confuses real integrity and moral values with what he and his media colleagues churn out on a daily basis that simply poses as moral outrage.

  • Julie Hill

    Mr Liddle………Lempertz auction house purchasing works of art (at much reduced rates) from desperate jews during the build up to World War 2. Is it simply a legal issue for those surviving relatives trying to get back those works of art or a moral issue as well?

  • sadra

    it is since his hair transplant that Rooney’s play has deteriorated.
    köpek mamasıköpek cinsleriنمای سرامیک

  • Guy Hamilton

    Tax avoidance is the perfectly legal, and moral, practice of arranging one’s affairs to ensure compliance with the law and regulations whilst paying the minimum legally required. Anyone who doesn’t do this is just giving money away to the government unnecessarily. If society disapproves the only acceptable solution is for government to revise the law to make the objectionable practice no longer legal.

    Tax evasion is the illegal practice of not paying tax that one is required by law to pay. It is already subject to legal penalties, ie one can go to jail or be fined for it.
    Tax avoidance and tax evasion are entirely different matters.

    Anyone commenting on the subject should keep the distinction in mind.

    • you_kid

      There is no ambiguity of distinction.
      Yet what happens is we talk about diversions all day long.
      When what matters is the minimum wage people divert and talk about the living wage, when British foreign policy is no longer of any interest to anyone people start getting the sure bet that is Bradgelina in, when taxes are quite clearly e v a d e d at record pace, people talk about avoidance.
      Second hand car dealers do not fall into the latter category.
      Boyband impressarios do not fall into the latter category.
      People with one line of work with a single main employer that demands daily committments of them but running companies to hire out their services to that very same main employer do not fall into that latter category.

      Many many many punters fall into the evader, not the avoider category, and that my friend, is a discussion you would want to try and avoid, non?

  • suzy61

    Superior indignation is important to Conor Whitworth. I wonder why he lives in Nottingham?

    • Fergus Pickering

      Perhaps he is a gangster in his spare time.

  • paulthorgan

    If there is one thing worse than some idiot wrote that letter is that some idiot at the Grauniad allowed it to be printed.

    Does anyone rational or sane read or write in this extremist rag?

  • David Glen

    This is the best you can do?
    How about we hop over to Brietbart, or even the Telegraph , hang around the comments section and try to discern the ‘mindset’ there .
    Of course a printed letter is so much more telling since it’s actually passed some editorial approval – and what a damming doozy of Marxist red-terror think you spotted there !

  • mandelson

    If you disagree with Guardinistas expect foam flecked rage and insunuations of insanity, just dont expect a reasoned argument.

  • Liz

    “I don’t think that people who disagree with me are immoral, or amoral. ”

    No, you just think they must be morons.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW5pPXGrdTY Puss in High Wedgies

    Your first two lines: thanks for the cackle, Rod.

  • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

    The Guardian hating right also consider lots of groups of people to be scum as well : the homeless and the unemployed, for example.

    • Max07

      The problem I have with that statement is that Guardian readers who champion the cause of the homeless and the unemployed don’t tend to live very close to them.

      • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

        Maybe they do, maybe they don’t. I’m not familiar with the demographic ratios of “Guardian readers to unemployed scum” but my point was really this: Rod Liddle is increasingly picking on the left as rigid and unbending and driven by doctrinaire. And yes, the letter in question was pretty silly. But if he now and again picked on the equally rigid, unbending and doctrinaire nonsense that is just as frequently spouted by the right his writing would be more interesting.

        • Max07

          I do take your point about the right. And I must admit that haven’t embarked on a detailed study of Guardian demographics either. I simply note that the only copy of the Grauniad that is regularly sold at my local newsagent goes to a rather unworldly ex-teacher who still believes in the essential goodness of his neighbours (flea-bitten halfway house residents) despite the fact that they are slowly demolishing his house in order to nick his stuff. I admire his spirit. But I think he is a bit daft.

        • TimeandtheRani

          I must wonder why on earth did Rod want to run the Independent, which is further to the left than the Guardian? To destroy it from the inside?

          • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

            I think Rod is very confused these days. I believe I’m right in saying that he is still a Labour voter, even though he seems to be turning into Kingsley Amis.

            • Max07

              His book is pretty even handed. He has no more liking for the right than the ‘faux left’. He points out that when his parents voted Labour, they were voting for people who mostly shared their background. That’s certainly not the case now.

              • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

                Haven’t read the book myself (yet). I saw that Julie Burchill slaughtered it in the Spectator’s own pages ; I imagine they won’t be toasting each other at the magazine’s annual party,

                • Max07

                  Did she use the word ‘smorgasbord’? She likes that one.

                • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

                  I don’t recall. But she certainly doesn’t like our Rod.

            • Fergus Pickering

              Rod is nothing like the excellent Kingsley Amis.Amis was an artist. Rod is a hack. A good hack, but a hack.

              • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

                Amis was indeed an artist, and a very funny man. But he didn’t like modern life much, did he ?

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Most old people prefer the past, particularly if they are novelists or poets. Never trust an up-to-date oldie.

        • MikeF

          “Rod Liddle is increasingly picking on the left as rigid and unbending and driven by doctrinaire.” They increasingly are and by the way they also do a lot of ‘hating’ as well.

        • Lancastrian_Oik

          Some examples, please.

          • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

            Erm..let me think :The Daily Mail for the last one hundred years ?

        • paulthorgan

          This assumes that left and right are mirror images of each other and is a typical socialist fallacy of equality and balance.

          Socialists are actually quite dim, but national socialists are truly off the scale. Conservatives are much more articulate and intelligent. The Spectator is a much better read than the New Statesman which is appallingly written and edited. This has to reflect the intelligence of their respective readerships.

          The board of Tesco is much better and more talented than the various boards of the red-tinged Co-op. And there is hard evidence of this in the public domain.

          • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

            Again, I’m not a socialist. My original points were a) That Liddle is getting away with writing lazy blogs and preaching to the converted all too often on here. It would have been a more interesting and surprising take for him to have written : “A moron has written a letter to The Daily Mail . I realise that this is not ground-breaking news” .b)The right are every bit as entrenched in their views as the left. You, for example, have that typically condescending attitude of the right when you say : “Socialists are actually quite dim, but national socialists are truly off
            the scale. Conservatives are much more articulate and intelligent”. The left may think they are morally superior to everyone – which is where they become unbearable – but the right have the equally nauseating tendency to think that they are intellectually superior to everyone.

            • paulthorgan

              ” It would have been a more interesting and surprising take for him to
              have written : “A moron has written a letter to The Daily Mail””

              This is pure socialist thinking – envisaging the mirror opposite to make a point.

              “You, for example, have that typically condescending attitude of the
              right when you say : “Socialists are actually quite dim, but national
              socialists are truly off the scale. Conservatives are much more articulate and intelligent””

              This happens to be true. Socialists elected a coke-sniffing rent-boy-using Methodist minister to be chairman of a left-leaning bank because he ticked all the politically correct boxes. And when he was found out, he blamed the people and the system that selected him. Pure socialism as well as very stupid.

              “The left may think they are morally superior to everyone – which is
              where they become unbearable – but the right have the equally nauseating tendency to think that they are intellectually superior to everyone.”

              The left are morally bankrupt with their bogus confiscatory compassion. The right has the brains and the money.

              • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

                Well, lets hope for your sake you had no financial interest in the likes of other socialist run orgainisations like Enron or Lehman Brothers. Not much brains or money left there.

                • paulthorgan

                  Lehman was risk-taking organisation run according to a capitalist model. Enron was a simple fraud. The Co-op was meant to be run according to a different model. There is a difference between being run by idiots, crooks and risk-takers, even if the outcome is the same. Risk-takers and crooks know what they are doing. The Co-op didn’t have a clue.

        • Fergus Pickering

          No it wouldn’t.

      • paulthorgan

        You’d be surprised. Some people who write in the Guardian see being mugged, robbed or burgled while living in a trendy part of the metropolis as a necessary price and sometimes justifiable rather than completely unacceptable. The trendy victim sympathises with the attacker.

        A bit like Fisk after those Afghans did him over.

        • Max07

          I see what you mean but generally I find that people who have a bit of dosh find ways of distancing themselves from any unpleasantness. Even if they get off on a bit of ‘vibrancy’ when they’re single, they quickly revert to type once the children come along. Ah, the litany of excuses that a Labour governor at our local school recited to justify sending her own kids to private school! Apparently they alone had been unsuccessful in securing places at any state school in the district. I’m getting increasingly impatient with this behaviour (and it’s not just my age). Scratch a faux leftie and mostly you’ll find a good old fashioned Tory.

          • paulthorgan

            It may be camouflage so they can successfully navigate the left-dominated ecosystem. Even Diane Abbott sent her kid to be privately educated outside Hackney.

    • Lancastrian_Oik

      No.

      We don’t.

    • paulthorgan

      Typical socialist denunciation. Weak on truth, brimming with bigotry.

      • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

        You seem to think I’m a socialist. Wrong.

        • paulthorgan

          You write like a socialist. Even though you don’t believe you are a socialist you may be unconsciously acting like one thanks to the indoctrination you have received.

          • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

            I subscribe to The Telegraph and The Spectator. I read the Guardian now and again. Who is indoctrinating me ?

            • paulthorgan

              You write and think like a socialist. I suggest you examine your views to find out when your opinions diverged from your purchasing habits.

              • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

                Ok, thanks. I will sit down and have a good old ponder today.

  • Tom M

    “No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a
    deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they
    are lower than vermin”
    Quote: Nye Bevan
    Plus ça change………….

  • The Masked Marvel

    Presumably, Thatcher is to blame for this as well. Seriously, though, Rod, you and your media colleagues bear a significant responsibility for this situation. How many times do you hear your former colleagues at the BBC or your mates at the Guardian describe someone doing someone on the other side of the ideological divide as being of questionable character and motive? Suspicious of the fudged science behind the Global Warming stuff being used to make important national decisions? You must be in the pay of Big Oil, or hate science. Don’t like unlimited immigration and the rapid transformation of your town and school? You must be a racist (as you experienced first-hand at the BBC recently, which is full of this Guardianista mind-set). Angry that blind fealty to political correctness caused the authorities and the media to look the other way for years while certain grooming gangs did their dirty business? You must be a racist. Don’t like abortion and think it akin to murder? You must be against all women’s rights. You in the media are largely to blame for this situation, and this random Guardian reader is the result. You may put on this reasonable act now, but even your own words here contribute to the demonisation of someone who, for the purposes of this debate, disagrees with you on an issue.

    What Froome has done is perfectly legal. If you don’t like it, complain about the law. Is everyone in Monaco wrong for the same reason? Not immoral, mind, but wrong on this issue? What about people who move to the state of Texas, where there is no state income tax? Or is it okay if they’re born there? How does that work, exactly? Does this logic extend to other forms of economic migration? Then again, it’s not really logic we’re talking about, is it?

    No, the main reason for this absolutism is the same as that, I suspect, for your position on taxation: it’s based on emotion. It feels bad if someone disagrees, so they must be bad for doing it. One generally reaches these lefty ideological positions based on righteousness. So disagreeing calls one’s righteousness, one’s own self-worth, into question. Your position on taxation must bear some relation to your own morals, no? Don’t expect us to believe it’s based on some cold socio-economic calculations you’ve made based on decades of research and debate. In any case, Froome has made this Guardian reader feel bad, so Froome must himself be bad. That’s how it works these days, and you in the media are largely responsible for the state of public discourse.

    So maybe we blame Murdoch as well as Thatcher, eh?

  • Picquet

    Oh, come on. You can hunt for hours in the Guardian’s Comment is Free sections before you find a post which hasn’t got ‘wobble-eyed, foamy-lipped, single-issue-fanatic’ written all over it. This particular one is fairly typical, although I’m surprised he didn’t mention the evil Tories, Michael Gove or racism.

  • MikeF

    The Guardian mindset is always trying to reconcile opposites – that is why it constantly alternates between blithe, self-regarding complacency on the one hand and vicious, authoritarian censoriousness on the other. That word ‘moral’ provides a perfect example – on the one hand they like to use the word in a dismissive fashion to trivialise any concerns other people may feel about the deleterious effects of ‘left-liberal’ polices e.g. ‘moral panic’ (a term that the left used to use obsessively but which now seems to be slight decline), on the other they like to represent all their own actions as the result of superior morality.

    • Max07

      Yes, morality is a difficult area for Guardianistas because it tends to go with judgement and this, of course, is beyond the pale. You can’t judge because everything is relative and there are no absolutes. Obviously the legal avoidance of tax is an exception. I think the hapless letter writer is on dangerous ground here, however. Years ago, at a rather painful Islington dinner party, some of the well-heeled guests had got to the point of crying real tears for the poor and afflicted. Too much plonk tends to do this to Guardian readers. Someone bravely tried to lighten the mood with a slightly flip remark, and got savaged for making light of ‘the struggles of the unfortunate’. The chief savager then casually remarked, after yet more hooch, that she had got this terrific new accountant who had ensured that she and her partner had paid little or no tax, despite their very healthy income.

      • Lancastrian_Oik

        It’s why they end up tying themselves in knots over, say, the natural tendencies and consequences of Islam.

  • Frank

    I think that there are 2 issues with tax, firstly how much you have to pay and secondly how efficiently your tax money is spent. Whilst I fully subscribe to the view that you have to contribute to the necessary costs of the society in which you live, it does enrage me when I see our officials (for want of a better word to describe all those buying stuff for the govt, the MOD, the NHS [including continuing PFI schemes], etc) just wasting billions without the slightest career hiccup, or punishment (let alone learning how to do it correctly!). When you then add in the money poured into the EU’s coffers (for them to misspend) and the billions given to the “aid industry” (for them to misspend), you have excellent reasons for tax-payers to feel very aggrieved and to wish to escape to Monaco!

    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW5pPXGrdTY Puss in High Wedgies

      Or America. : )

  • saffrin

    Blair is on the telly warmongering again.
    Seems to think had we joined forces with the Islamist rebels fighting Assad in Syria, this new Iraq thing wouldn’t be happening.
    A clear sign, to me at least, that the man is either insane or attempting to appear to be pre his war crimes trial considering the new Iraq troubles have been financed and supplied by the likes of him in the first place.

    • Kitty MLB

      Blair is just a rather insane egotistical peacock.
      Very deluded actually, he said a while ago that he has no
      regrets about his time in office…and quite forgotten the
      blood on his hands.

      • Frank

        Not sure about “peacock”, he strikes me as a very needy man, horribly insecure, also very shallow, wanting to emulate Maggie with her “martial glory”.

      • Lungfish66
    • global city

      He’s insane. He always has been. You could tell in the 1980s’ that he was driven by a Messiah complex and the delusions of Billy Liar.

      Remember that scene in the movie where Billy (Tom Courtney) is fantasising that he is at the head of his army as he leads them up some suburban street? That’s Tony Blair!

  • artemis in france

    It’s all poorly disguised envy, Rod. If Conor was fortunate enough to have the talent to liberate him to live where hé chose he’d probably do something similar to Froome. Look at “Tory hating Rik Mayall” who sent his children to a very expensive private school. Such drivel being written about his being a legend. He was funny sometimes and a hypocrite all of the time, it would seem.

    • Andy M

      Don’t be daft. I’m no Leftie, but Rik Mayall absolutely WAS a legend and always will be. You need to learn to differentiate between people’s talents and their personalities. None of what you are saying about him changes how he was an absolutely fantastic comedy performer. His political ideology or whether or not he was a hypocrite on an issue has no bearing on his performances and talent.

  • pp22pp

    That’s nothing. When the subject is UKIP voters, the Guardian comment thread becomes completely unhinged.

  • Stigenace

    Dear Conor Whitworth,

    I live in England. I’m fretting because I don’t know whether I’m moral to do so. Please advise me.

    • Inverted Meniscus

      It depends on the following:
      1) Do you read the Guardian and vote Labour?
      2) do you think Polly Toynbee and Owen Jones are sensible people?
      3) do you believe that anybody who disagrees with you is evil?
      4) when you lose an argument, do you accuse your opponent of racism?
      5) are you financially incompetent and do you enjoy spending other people’s money?
      6) are you a moralising, sanctimonious, preposterous boor who believes Ed Miliband is a potential PM?
      7) have you ever taken an article written by Mary Riddel seriously?

      If your answer to any or all of the above questions is ‘No’ then I am afraid you have no morals. Collect a first class air ticket and fly to Monaco immediately.

  • Lungfish66

    I would not live in Monaco for all the tea in China- mainly because the place is full of Chinese and Russian people nowadays with no taste, Antibes has gone downhill and I don’t much care for all the wannabe c=nts in Cannes either. Nice has never been particularly nice. Its Suffolk for me, maybe Yorkshire if the weather is good. Or Derbyshire if your going to a pub.

    • Stigenace

      Is there room in Monaco to live with all the tea in China?

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Brilliant. He should have said “I wouldn’t move to Monaco for all the Tea in Welwyn Garden City” because then there might still be a bit of room in Monaco.

        • Lungfish66

          My cousin Janet lives in Welwyn Garden City and she is an avid communist. She is also a party animal.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            There is no telling where you might find a socialist nutter these days convivial or otherwise.

      • Lungfish66

        I can’t answer that question in my current condition- I have been for a superb French seafood dish in this absolutely top pub this evening.

        http://www.thepeacockchelsworth.com/

        • Stigenace

          I’ve just been looking at the pub and the village on Google Images and Maps. It’s a charming setting. Chelsworth is very picturesque. I knew a little about nearby Lavenham, also a delightful place, but I didn’t know Chelsworth. Suffolk has many hidden gems like these.

    • Mark McIntyre

      Yo Lupo – its make your mind up time – while you still have a sober one !…
      Derbyshire – where you belong ?
      Lundun – where you once loitered ?
      Oxfordshire – where you have twice ‘washed up’ ?
      Stamford – where you once ‘graced’ ?
      Suffolk – where you now

      • Lungfish66

        Christ, how can one chap change his name so many times in a short life! . Sorry I am always drunk and the Mrs has crawled up the wooden mountain. Apologies Dave and we are eternally sorry for how we treated you in 1975 at Brocksford Hall, although I am currently having an argument with a so called ‘architect’ who likewise thinks he is the most important and clever man on planet Earth.

        • Lungfish66

          Love you always Mark

          • Lungfish66

            but not in a Jimmy Saville kind of way- you know what I mean, some of us could take it and some of us found it a bit difficult Mark. Regards always.

        • Mark McIntyre

          Know what you mean – Lungfish, Lupus Lungfish, Lungfish66 !
          When an alias becomes reality – it be time to create another !!

    • Lancastrian_Oik

      It’s very nice here in my adopted county of Cheshire- not the footballers’ wives bit of Alderley Edge etc., because west of the M6 is where it really happens. We’ve got a beautiful agrarian and quintessentially English landscape, your money goes a long way when it comes to buying somewhere to live (a late-Georgian country house with separate guest cottage, outbuildings and seven acres of parkland will set you back about the same as the averaged terraced house in, say, Fulham), great pubs and restaurants and you’ve got Chester, Manchester and Scouseland with two international airports on your doorstep. Thus far, there is very little evidence of cultural enrichment from followers of the religion of peace (albeit Wales is a little too near for comfort).

      However, when Miliband wins (because he will), I’m off to Switzerland because this is what will happen: http://order-order.com/2014/06/16/stay-class-y-wife-beater-tells-labour-to-put-up-taxes/

      • Lungfish66

        agreed, apart from from the simple fact of Yorkshire being slightly superior in general.

        • Lungfish66

          apart from Bradford and Leeds obviously, with all that cultural enrichment and multi whatever you call it

  • rick hamilton

    The point is not that a smug leftie has written unthinking tosh to the Guardian, which must be an everyday event, but that they think it’s worth printing.

  • Chingford Man

    Would it not be more newsworthy to learn that a non-moron has written to the said filthy rag?

    • Inverted Meniscus

      Catch 22 I’m afraid. Only a moron would write to the Guardian and thus a sensible person who found him or herself writing to the Guardian would be a moron. If they chose not to write to the Guardian they would again become sensible.

  • Liz

    Why does he live in Monaco?

    • rodliddle

      probably to avoid our taxes, Liz.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Wrong. It is simply more convenient for joining the Tour de France. Except this year of course because it starts in Yorkshire.

        • Liz

          So he is moral?

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Of course, why is there any question about his morality? This is just a lot of jumped up, sanctimonious rubbish from a few socialist nutters. Who are they to judge anybody’s morality for goodness sake. Presumptuous, moralising left wing boors should simply be ignored and if Chris Froome wants to maximise the efficiency of his tax affairs then good luck to him. Tell the Guardian and ludicrous idiots like Conor Whitworth to get stuffed and to keep their sanctimonious opinions to themselves.

            • Liz

              So he’s a a moral dissembling asset stripper?

              • Inverted Meniscus

                Asset stripper? What are you talking about? He is a professional cyclist who lives in Monaco and should not have to put up with sanctimonious leftist boors like yourself passing moral judgements based on nothing save for your own inflated and fatuous sense of your own morality.

              • mohdanga

                Because he doesn’t want to be pillaged by the tax department he is an ‘asset stripper’. And pray tell, what assets did he strip? HIs own earnings? Or do they belong to the state?
                Bjorn Borg moved to Monaco in the early 80s because the Swedish gov’t taxed his earnings at 95%. I suppose he was an asset stripper too. As did Pink Floyd, the Rolling Stones and myriad other entertainers.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Excellent points but socialist nutters are impervious to reason.

  • Kennybhoy

    “But with people like Conor – and The Guardian in general – if you don’t subscribe to their shibboleths, you are scum.”

    Nature of the beat old boy. And the tendency has contaminated the right as well…

  • Kitty MLB

    Oh come on Roddie.
    Not that spiteful and economically damaging higher rate tax
    for higher rate earners again..Would you like to wake up tomorrow
    as Gordon Brown…a desperate man trying to cling on to power.
    Higher earners,if busnesses employ half the electorate, keep
    public services going and create the countries wealth…
    Is wealth still a nasty word , must we all be as poor as each other.
    And dearest man, avoid the atrocious Guardian if you can,
    just use it for the cat litter tray…apologies to the cat, even
    animals have standards.

    • Lungfish66

      try and use the word ‘paucity’ in your next comment Kitty

      • Kitty MLB

        I shall take your advice O wise one.

        • FrankS2

          But you didn’t!

  • global city

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxNmkKJ3kuE

    This sums up the whole subsection of the left wing prickocracy that make us all suffer so much.

  • S&A

    If Conor Whitworth is so upset about tax exiles, he might want to stop reading the ‘Grauniad’.

    The Guardian Media Group’s investments are held in banks in the Cayman Islands so they can’t be taxed in the UK.

    • http://europa-antiqua-arca.blogspot.com/ clavdivs

      It’s okay when they do it, since it’s for the greater good.

  • Adam Carter

    OK Rod, let’s have a discussion about taxation policy.
    I favour a flat rate of tax, with a substantial tax free allowance.
    How about aspiring to : £15,000 tax free, then 30% income tax on everything after that, with no loopholes. (You can adjust those figures if you want.)
    That way the high earners still contribute more than the low earners, but the last pound is taxed at the same rate as the first taxable pound.
    Why is that wrong?
    Why should a greater percentage be taken out of the higher parts of the income? Doing it that way gives the opportunity for the majority to effectively mug the high-earning minority.
    Do it my way and everybody has the same interest in taxation policy.

    • Gary

      The reason it is wrong is because it creates a massive ‘client state’ of people who pay no tax. This segment will never be able to connect the services to the cost of providing them because they don’t pay for it. So when the next populist idiot rocks up shouting for more tax ‘n spend, this segment really hear “great – tax them and spend on me”
      Everyone should be locked in to paying tax and understanding that stuff costs money. Even if that payment is just a token amount.

      • Kitty MLB

        Ah, understand that stuff costs money.Most do,
        but there are some that what someone else to pay
        for the stuff. A little bit of what someone else has
        earned.

        • Gary

          I’m sure you do understand. But over time and on average most people would understand just a little less if they weren’t actually paying themselves.
          That’s the problem with a very high threshold – it puts an increasingly large burden on an increasingly smaller segment of the population. That’s not resilient or fair and it incentivises people to ignore the basic trade-offs of life.

          • subwus

            Trade-offs?
            Trade-offs between people and the State, such as the State doing less and people keeping more of THEIR OWN money, not being one of them of course.

            • Kitty MLB

              People keeping their own money whilst wealthy
              politicians with their ‘ bleeding heart’ mentality
              decide how much of our own money we should
              keep and how much they should steal..
              Not sure that will catch on.. Ed Milipede
              and his socialist chums will see such people
              as predators.

          • Kitty MLB

            ‘The basic trade-offs of life’ Being the rich need
            the poor to the jobs they’d rather not do
            and the poor need the rich to pay their
            taxes to support them in time of need.
            Both need each other, so politicians
            should not play one off against the other.

      • subwus

        So, just tax the less well off, then use a cumbersome and expensive State bureaucracy to pay them their own tax money back. Just rename that bit of the process, of giving them back their own money, as ‘claiming benefits’.
        Marvelous, a make-work scheme for State bureaucrats in the name of ‘helping the less well off’.
        Stone me, do you think The Graun will go for it!???

      • Fergus Pickering

        But of course they pay tax, you fool.Have you never heard of VAT?

    • Wessex Man

      let’s not, your proposals are nothing to do with the content of Rod Liddle’s

      article, let’s stick with that.

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