Blogs Coffee House

Murderous Islamists or Islamophobia?

27 June 2014

7:06 AM

27 June 2014

7:06 AM

I have a nominee for idiot of the week. I had never heard of him until yesterday, but he is one ‘Andreas Krieg’ who the Daily Mail has referred to as ‘a Middle East security analyst at King’s College London in Qatar.’

Mr Krieg was quoted in a story on the violence in Iraq, Syria, Kenya, Nigeria and elsewhere. This included stories so bloodthirsty that it is hard to look at some of the pictures which accompany the text. It should also be remembered that most of the victims of this violence are Muslim. And so are all of the perpetrators. So how, on being asked for a reaction to all this bloodshed does our noble academic respond? As follows:

‘Andreas Krieg, a Middle East security analyst at King’s College London in Qatar, said he had noticed a rise in extremism in recent weeks and months, but said Islam wasn’t to blame.

He told MailOnline: ‘All the empirical evidence shows that it is on the rise. You’re seeing it in all the headlines, then you’re looking at Iraq, you’re looking at Syria, you’re looking at Nigeria.

‘But in all three cases this has nothing to do with Islam. I think people in the West may think it is because they feel alienated by Islam. There is a lot of Islamophobia.’


You can read the whole sorry thing here.

I suppose we should feel grateful that Mr Krieg has ‘noticed’ the ’empirical evidence’. But next time Sunni death squads descend on a Shia town or Boko Haram kidnap another hundred schoolgirls and sell them into slavery, just remember, Mr Krieg doesn’t want you to think this is Islamism. No, no. This is ‘Islamophobia’ we are witnessing.

Subscribe to The Spectator today for a quality of argument not found in any other publication. Get more Spectator for less – just £12 for 12 issues.

Show comments
  • Thaddeus lovelock

    The way the term Islamophobia is used and abused it has come to have no real meaning. Its just become a way, to avoid criticism, and shut down debate.
    If any body is behaving, in a phobic manner, its all these Islamists, on the rampage, frothing at the mouth and hacking the heads off people.

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    How can all this violence have nothing to do with Islam, when Islamists Invoke, Islamic, history and beliefs, as justification, for their violent acts?

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    I have often heard Muslims say, that September 11, was, the turning, point. That up, until then, they did not perceive a noticeably anti Muslim sentiment, being prevalent. well, If blowing up the world trade centre , and killing nearly four, thousand people, from all over the world, does not cause fear, nothing will. And of course September 11, was in a sense, just the start of a litany of Islamist violence.

  • Al

    Yeah, well, at least this ‘idiot’ managed better than a 2:2 in English Literature, eh Duggles?

    • suzy61

      Seems to me you are the idiot

  • Sean Raymond

    Islamophobia is a shrewd term that, unlike anti-semitism, does not pertain to Muslims per se yet is used in exactly this way – to demonstrate racisim against Muslims. Islamophobia is frivolously bandied about to character assassinate any critique of Islam or silence any debate on it by using it to smear a person – a de facto blasphemy law created by Muslims with the full support of its many halo polishing apologists. Islamophobia has been cleverly (and specifically) set up to be equated with racisim in order to push odious agendas yet it is mere word play, an intellectual sleight of hand – I cannot believe its users are allowed to get away with such unscrupulous deception.

    Islam is a belief system, it is a quite extensive set of ideas which puts in place social structures and rules of government – Islam is openly called an ideology. So how then, if I was to say that this ideology is incompatible with Western values can this then result in me being marked as an Islamophobe? I disagree with the ideology – how can this possibly mean I am inflicted with an irrational xenophobic phobia? How can a person be deemed prejudice if they dislike a belief system?

    I have no issue with Muslims – I do have an issue with many tenants and precepts of Islam – so how on Earth can such a canard be used to imply I dislike an individual? I disagree with much of what it espouses and would never wish to live under its rule of law and I am surely allowed to say I dislike it in exactly the same way I can say I dislike the Labour party and do not wish to be governed by them. You see, I have the right to dislike something and do so without fear of being tainted as a bigot or a racist. It is very simple. Christianity receives copious criticism in the media, the arts and all the rest of it yet we see no Christianophobia – why?

    This is important because the power of this ludicrous term has resulted in many people being jailed for quite trivial things which were dressed up as serious crimes because they were deemed ‘Islamophobic’. Racism is a serious thing and such a serious issue should be treated seriously with a distinction made between genuine hatred of a race and a concern for a doctrine people do not believe in or agree with.

    • Damaris Tighe

      You have to wonder what is going on when simple objection to Islamic ideas is considered more subversive than the violent ideas themselves. I think the answer is quite complex & includes the left-wing attitude that western ethnic groups are automatically more culpable than ‘people of colour’.

      But I think that it’s also just cowardice. They fear (1) the whole thing blowing up into race riots & (2) they fear Muslims more than the natives, for good reason. So they try to keep a lid on this boiling pot by attacking those who are least likely to resort to violence – us.

  • ADW

    They think that the risk of racism in Britain far outweighs anything, anywhere in the world. So thousands are murdered across the Middle East every week yet we must not be told the truth about it in case there is some prejudice here. Despite the fact that no far right party in Britain in the past hundred years has ever gotten anywhere electorally at all.

    The British people are better than the liberal elite thinks, and they deserve better as well.

  • Marky_D

    These left wing idiots are the ultimate racists – utterly unable to allocate blame to any ”other” ideology or race, every bad action must ultimately be the fault of white, western populations. It’s as if they actually believe that brown skinned people have literally no self awareness and are mere automatons continuously driven by the next white western outrage.
    Would be interesting to see his take on the Beslan school massacre – white muslim terrorism…. presumably black Christians in London are to blame.

  • Gwangi

    Typical academic askole…
    Really, these pillocks still worship leftwing ideologies that went out of date by the 1990s. They also worship at the altar of political correctness and turn a blind eye to any extremism from anyone with a dark skin and a minority religion – it is they who are the racists and bigots, not those who correctly identity Islam as the problem.
    Yes, it IS Islam that is to blame – extreme versions of literalist Islam, which many UK Muslims adhere to. Radical Islam has been a problem for decades and was NOT created by British foreign policy, which anyway went to help Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq, and Muslims against Christians in Serbia and Bosnia.

    Most British Muslims despise the Sufis and the peaceful and tolerant Ahmediyyan Muslims, who they do not regard as true Muslims at all.

    Most Muslims who are killed are killed by other Muslims of course. Having said that one reason thick British Muslims are going to Syria to fight is because the place is ruled by a Christian – and Muslims will always support Muslims over Christians, Jews, or who they see as the infidel evil ones, atheists.

    We should have clamped down on UK Muslims in 1989 after many publicly stated they would kill Salman Rushdie. Sadly, the gormless ganchuds who rule us chose to tolerate these twits and then give money, favours and even knighthoods to the Islamic nutwads in our midst. You really couldn’t make it up – but hey, Muslims do…

  • benbecula

    Alex Salmond’s response in Parliament , Thursday to the Aberdeen raised Jihadi recruiter was to to warn Scots of a “zero tolerance” approach to attempts to demonise Muslims. Unsurprisingly, no “zero tolerance” towards islamic jihadi’s in Scotland.

    • Damaris Tighe

      They are much more frightened of us than of them. How else to explain the treatment of Tommy Robinson?

  • Cincinnatus

    Meanwhile in Ilford a prostitute was murdered by a Muslim because she was working too close to his mosque. The Guardian refuses to report on the story and the BBC refuses to report the religious motive.

    Big Brother is not required when the media voluntarily censors itself.

  • cartimandua

    Islam treats women worse than goats and treats them like breeding livestock.
    There are 100 million in the youth bulge of the MENA region. There are youth bulges
    in every Muslim country.
    They fight and or migrate.

    • Conway

      Islam also regards the kuffir (that’s us non-muslims) as lower than cattle, too.

  • Sinceyouask

    This moderation is a dangerous thing.

    Let us accept that there are indeed many thousands of moderate Muslims. But equally, may we be honest in accepting that this moderation is comparative. It is quite unlike the traditional acceptance of religious observance in a western liberal democracy, where faith and religion may guide a person’s life, but do not provide the right to tell others how to lead theirs. These different kinds of moderation must not be confused, and certainly not promoted as equal, as our politicians are so happy to do.

    Certainly, there is a personal reluctance for most Muslims to undertake violence, but there is no effective Islamic criticism of extremist behaviour. The former is not enough.

    Most importantly, these moderates clearly have no influence over their fellow believers. The silence about the barbaric behaviours their fellow believers in Iraq, Sudan and Nigeria demonstrate a complete inability to influence that behaviour. If we in the non-Muslim world see the solution to extremism as lying in the hands of this kind of moderate, we are truly storing up trouble for our children.

  • Andrew Morton

    Should we pass judgement before or after studying the photo at the top of this article?

    • saffrin

      Or scan the fraudulent insurance claim statistics?
      Maybe we should wonder why we pay so much for car insurance.

  • gildedtumbril

    Just love that phrase,” moderate muslims”.
    They should not be tarred with the lunatic fringe killing daily over the planet.
    The ‘lunatic fringe’ is only 99.9999% of ‘peace loving, moderate muslims’.

    • TNT

      I don’t understand the phrase, either. Maajid Nawaz is a media darling for professing to be the face of moderate Islam. And yet he still believes that a man who was involved in an act of mass violence every six weeks for the last nine years of his life, and who married a six-year-old girl after threatening her parents, is the final prophet of God, and the supreme example of a perfect man.

      Either the ‘moderates’ are dissembling, or they are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

      • Abu

        TNT……so you want every Muslim to reject their prophet, their religion and their god…….you may as well say what you want which is there shouldn’t be no Muslim religion at all..well you are not the first to say that anyway.

        • TNT

          I’m saying that you can not reconcile two opposing ideas, and Islam doesn’t allow for cherry-picking.

          If you worship a man who spread his ideas through tremendous amounts of bloodshed, without ever doubting him as a role model, what DOES that say about you?

          (And I will be honest with you and say, yes, I don’t want there to be any Islam in the West at all, and that we should in turn leave you alone in your own countries without interference or invasion or exploitation.)

          • Abu

            Well you can insult my Prophet and my religion as much as you can simply because unlike any other people or religion you are allowed to insult and malign my continue to do it….but what i don’t agree with you is that for you to say…..Western countries/religions do not or have not done/cause tremendous amounts of bloodshed…i will tell you ignorant as we speak, there are people being killed in thousands by western countries.

            but in your narrow sight, western countries don’t do such a thing.

            however, that last paragraph would be nice, but you wont do it you know why…because people of these countries decided centuries ago they wont do that…else they will die in the streets of the west out of hunger and cold.

            • TNT

              I’m not insulting your prophet (his actions have always insulted him, don’t you think?) – I am stating the fact that he was a warlord, by anyone’s standards. (In the same critical vein, I believe that Abraham, if he existed, must have been a paranoid schizophrenic to be willing to slit a child’s throat on the instruction of his ‘god’.) No religion should be above criticism. People’s futures and society’s well-being depend on our continued willingness to ‘malign’, as you put it.

              Unlike you, who sees no blame in Islam ever, I criticise the West constantly, especially when its leaders are dropping bombs on other people’s children in land- and oil-grabbing military projects.

              But if you really want to see who is causing most harm to Muslims, turn only to your left or your right, and it will be other Muslims.

              Most countries in the world have been invaded, used, exploited, etc. That is no excuse to plant bombs or take away the rights of women and minorities, or be incapable of functioning productively TODAY.

              Muslim countries fail because Islam is a failed ideology.

  • sarahsmith232

    Austerity??!! Somebody at King’s College is going to have to explain to me how austerity explains the London underground bombings.
    Although, I would have to agree with this student, it’s not Islam, it’s what you get when an affluent, status driven, successful society imports poverty en masse. The incomers will either create their own unifying, separatist identity that can only survive on a solidarity that convinces it’s followers they are all victims of the ignorant and more powerful. Or, as the Muslims don’t need to bother, having their own ready made one, they use that instead. Reasons why Communism could excite the passions so easily in the early 20th century is the same explanation for this lot.
    It’s international incarnation is very recent, it was ’79 when Iran first showed the Islamic world that fundamentalism could humiliate America yet it’s taken decades for this to take hold.
    Personally, in this county I blame our Left dominated media for it all. These half-wits could have been embarrassed out of all this a while back, jeez’, it’s not like they’re short of how to take to the ****. No chance of this here though, we don’t in a society with a free media, the Left dominated media would consider scathing, hilarious attacks of these prats e.g’s of shocking Islamaphobia. Instead they prefer to baby them, align their behaviour with noble causes, like the above King’s College student -it’s a response to the Tory gov’s austerity – idiot statement. While they’re telling them that their behaviour is excusable and even close to a noble response then we will be all waiting for the cows to come home if anyone thinks any of these half-wit prats are going to work out the real causes for themselves.

    • cartimandua

      It is Islam because gender apartheid means women are abused. Trauma takes generations to abate. Traumatized women create disorganized attachments and that creates people vulnerable to powerful emotional experiences as does maternal hatred.

      • sarahsmith232

        You know, I don’t agree. It’s a resistance ideology that’s recently become potent. Why? ‘Cause back in the 50s/60s it was secular socialism that was seen as a way out via a pan-Arab Non-Aligned Movement. What did for that was Arab leaders doing everything in their power to thwart the fantasy hero figure Nasser usurping their powerbase. Combined with backing the wrong horse in aligning with the Soviets and socialism. Meanwhile the Muslim Brotherhood had worked out how to make itself useful in very deprived communities, so was slowly increasing their powerbase.

        So why has it took as long as it has done for this form of resistance to take hold? Actually, I think the question should be why was there no dramatic increase after ’79, why has it been so unappealing and unpopular. ‘Cause you write that it’s down to the effects of generations of women that have been abused, but from what it looks like, Afghanistan in the 60s/70s, for e.g, was relatively fine with female emancipation. Girls were educated, they worked etc.

        Ok, i’m going to end up writing too much, but personally I think that a lot of the separatist muslims here, for e.g, I mean, i’m no brain, but you know, some of them, I mean, quite simply, without the media explaining their cluelessness to them they’ll never be able to work it out for themselves. Currently you’ve got them all going on about ‘what’s wrong with gender segregation, Eton is for boys, there’s girls only schools’. They’re so pleased with themselves after, there’s no equivalence though. There are EQUALLY boys only and girls schools, they’re also EQUALLY good schools. This system doesn’t preference boys, it doesn’t diminish a girls worth, shoving girls in a co-ed school to the back of the class does do. They can’t get that though, can’t work it out for themselves, media should be explaining it to them but our un-free Left-dominated one wont. Enormous part of the problem, I think.

        • Damaris Tighe

          I saw a photo online of young Afghan women in Kabul taken in the 1970s – they were all wearing mini-skirts or jeans. Sigh … I wonder what their lives are like now …

          • sarahsmith232

            I dread to think. Presumably the fighters, the women that wanted to stand up to these barbarians, are probably long since in their graves. A female lawyer in Libya has just been stabbed and shot in the head because she was attempting to stand against their barbarity.
            Someone I knew from Libya told me that Gaddafi threw out these backward, repulsive cretins and they took up in Afghanistan. . . that is until Labour came to power, they made so easy for this lot to get in by claiming asylum that they all made a B-line straight over. The Libyan I knew hated them and you couldn’t have found an angrier person in the BNP about all of this. The Libyan I knew loved being here, loved our freedoms and was pulling his hair out about how irresponsible Labour was about blithely allowing these people in. You never know, bit of luck, now Gaddafi’s gone hopefully they’ll all be piling back over there.

            • Damaris Tighe

              Labour have a lot to answer for & in a just world they would never have power again. Unfortunately we have our home-grown cretins who will still vote for them so no justice.

              • sarahsmith232

                Agree, they made sure to get enough millions dependent on handouts, now they’re not in a position to choose not to vote for them.
                Love their spin on the fact that we are no longer a democracy due to Labour and the Lib Dems – ‘the electoral arithmetic favours Labour’, or, translation – ‘the constituency boundaries now mean that Labour only needs 35% to get a majority but the Tories need 40% and the fact that that means that we are living in a society where the elections are free but they certainly aren’t fair, then so what, suck on it to the Tories’.
                Most shocking thing about it is that nobody seems to know, they believe Blair won 3 elections, he didn’t, the last one he stole, only got 35%, Tories got larger % in 2010 but no majority. We don’t live in society with a free media, so no one knows. Shocking.

  • SimonNorwich

    In a way, he’s half right, because it is fear of Islam that drives Muslims to kill Muslims.

  • liam

    I knew the day had started badly when I woke up to Radio 4’s Today program quoting someone who said “Police have not integrated well enough with the Muslim community” (talking about Cardiff police). I’m so curious as to who came up with this gem that I’ll have to listen again and find out (it was at 7:04am in case anyone’s curious).

    • anotherjoeblogs

      I am learning that the Daily Mail is more influential on muslims than The Houri Express or the Jihad Times ( thanks to telemachus ). The thing is though, if the Daily Mail is so detrimental on these fragile eggshell minds, why do they continue to read it ? I guess it must be the lure of the cute cat pictures and their eyes take in the stories of hatred on the peripheral subliminally.

    • amicus


    • anncalba

      It made me splutter into my early morning cuppa. Seemed, even for the BBC a pretty blatant attempt at manipulation. The implication being that it was the fault of the South Wales Police that the young men from Cardiff had gone off to fight in Syria, because the police had not done enough to integrate with the muslim community. The idea that the Muslim community might not have integrated too well with the locals was of course not to be thought of.

    • Inverted Meniscus

      Spot on Liam. Of course there is absolutely no reciprocal obligation for the Muslim community to integrate with British laws, customs, the Police etc etc.

  • rubes love

    Spelt, Islamofauxbia.

  • laurence

    Ah, Douglas. Young Krieg (an apt surname) is surely right to point out to us dimwits our many errors in comprehension. We do not possess the adequate cognitive resources and so we mistake ‘alienation’ for religion in a causal process. Besides, as we are constantly assured, this current brouhaha cannot be anything to do with the ‘I’ word, for the ‘I’ word is always about peace. So, you see, these peace-loving souls are so filled, so utterly consumed, with peace, that they feel an inner compulsion to grow beards, don flip-flops, mismatching fatigues and bandoliers, leap into the back of a pick up and go off to wage peace. Indeed, it is a heart-stirring sight to see so many followers of this most peaceable of religions gather in so many beautiful, peaceful, spots to spread their most peaceful message by most peaceful means. A thoroughly peaceful lot leaving behind many pieces.

  • Gafto

    Telemachus is again telling us it is our fault that islamists are shooting people in the back of the head and chopping peoples’ heads off because we didn’t ’embrace’ them enough and the Daily Mail says horrible things about them. He goes on to make completely misinformed corrolations between the totalitarian fascists of islam and the IRA. He has shown his knowledge of Northern Ireland affairs and history is very limited, to the extent he would be better off saying nothing else on that subject.

    Just as he was defending the murder of 30 000000 people the other day by Joseph Stalin he is now saying that in effect that Isis exist because we are not ’embracing’ them enough. The more I read his posts, the more I feel that he just does not have a grasp of reality. For example he is CofE in faith, see how the christians of the middle east are being ’embraced’ by islam at the moment, or is that also the Daily Mail’s fault?

  • Ron Todd

    Draw up a list of countries that are civilized and peaceful and a list of countries that are violent sectarian and chaotic. Do another two lists one of christian countries one of Muslim countries. Which pairs of lists would have the most overlap?

  • Bonkim

    Mr Krieg is quite right – there has not been any rise in violence caused by Islamic bigots across the globe – it was always present only modern communications spread the news fast. Terrorists also play to the gallery to increase the spread of their message – good publicity.

    You may also argue that Islam is not the cause but its interpretation by the terrorists. It is not unlike the argument – Guns don’t kill but the people using guns do. Muslims are not all terrorists – many terrorists are Muslims. Simple.

    • Colonel Mustard

      “…there has not been any rise in violence caused by Islamic bigots across the globe”

      Are you sure about that? I’d like to see your referenced statistics for the number of attacks and victims to evidence that statement. Is there a graph you can link to?

    • vieuxceps2

      Yes, the basic cause for the conflicts is Islam .The religion itself,not anyone’s interpretation ,or membership of differing sects. It’s Islam itself,a truly irrational ideology based on nothing more than the words of a man who died 1500 years ago. A man whose ideas were not written down until centuries after his death ,a man whose life was more that of a warlord than a preacher.It’s basis is as purely foolish as that of Christianity or of Judaism.
      Mankind was not made by any gods,it is the gods who have been made by mankind. Time to accept that and grow up.

  • zanzamander

    I don’t care what he thinks as a citizen of this free country. But what I do worry about is what must he be “teaching” to his students at King’s College London. No wonder our university campuses have become welcome guests for hate preachers, anti-semites and Islamism by stealth.

    • Damaris Tighe

      not on the weed today Zanzamander?

      • zanzamander

        Yeah, sorry about that but you’ve got to realise what I was trying to do. Suffice to say that I know what it must have been like for dissidents in the old Soviet Union often talking in riddles and in incomprehensible prose that would bypass the KGB in the hope that other dissidents would get the message. I am still treading on egg shells.

        The fight goes on. Cheers!

  • Andy

    As the Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus observed “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached”.

    Nothing more needs be said.

    • Damaris Tighe

      As quoted by Pope Benedict at Regensburg, for which he had to grovel. The very popular new Pope is not so perceptive & having invited an imam to an ecumenical event recently, was treated to an unscripted call to conversion in arabic. This was broadcast throughout the arab world.

  • swatnan

    Take my word for it its ‘murderous islam’. The Muslim community don’t seem to have realised whats happening to them, or are blind to whats happened to them, and are incensed at criticism of whats happened to them; its the crimes that are committed in their name.

  • telemachus

    Now come on Murray

    Let us hear the whole tale

    “Mr Krieg said more and more communities – often disillusioned by austerity or other grievances – have turned to religious groups as an alternative to secular regimes in recent years.

    He said: ‘When communities become disenfranchised – and lot of them are muslim – they use Islam to further their particular cause.

    ‘They adhere to a radical interpretation of Islam, but it has nothing to do with the religion.'”
    Folks feel disenfranchised and USE Islam
    Recall the disenfranchised Catholics who could not get work in the North of Ireland who used Catholicism

    • wycombewanderer

      It would take some doing to grab your crown of idiot of the week!

      • telemachus

        There has to be balance

        • Blindsideflanker

          No there doesn’t , sometimes what you are confronted with is just evil and wrong.

          • telemachus

            I agree we have evil in the radicals
            He was saying that that evil was due to the TWIN problems of disenfranchisation and radical Mullahs, not just religion
            You are allowed to debate not dismiss

            • Colonel Mustard

              “…evil was due to the TWIN problems of disenfranchisation and radical Mullahs, not just religion”

              Probably one of the more ridiculous assertions you have made in your one-man attempt to justify terrorism. Like many on the left you are so eager to cudgel your own people and put the alien on a pedestal that it takes you to a very unhealthy and sinister place.

              • telemachus

                Revised to my actual thesis

                • Colonel Mustard

                  It still doesn’t make any sense. However hard you (and others) try, separating the extremism from the religion is not credible. The very nature of the Islamic religion appears to set its adherents apart. The modern Christian faith is generally tolerant and relaxed about the practice of other religions. Islam in general is not. Why do you think there are no Christian churches in Saudi Arabia? Why do you think Christians in the Middle East are being increasingly persecuted?

                  The British muslims speaking on QT last night revealed the full complexities of the problem and their divided loyalties. The answer lies in the Islamic faith itself not in trying to make it somehow a “victim” in order to justify the violence perpetrated in its name. The invention of “Islamophobia” by all the usual suspects of the left has as usual polarised the issue and intensified the confrontational aspects of the debate, making the whole thing worse.

        • Hexhamgeezer

          No. For you there has to be whitewashing.

          • telemachus

            I see brainwashing

            • Andy

              AH yes but you have no brain to wash !

        • Inverted Meniscus

          Yes but you don’t provide it. You just offer intellectually incoherent fatuousness.

        • vieuxceps2

          Yes Tele. Balance against your insane utterings.

      • Andy

        He should get the chair. Would you care to plug it in ???

    • Julieann Carter

      There’s that word again! “Disenfranchised”. Seems to be a notable favourite with selected BBCQT audience members, and left/liberal/politically correct aware, panellists – whenever Muslim atrocities are broached upon during public discourse.
      That “disenfranchised” has become synonymous with “Muslim”, cannot in all reality be for the purpose of garnering collective public sympathy for the “disenfranchised Muslims” slaughtering innocents, home, abroad, and around the Globe.
      It is craven obscurantism, ideological in purpose from The Left for whom it is believed a Caliphate state would bring about the destruction of the evil Capitalist state; and from the panic stricken centre & right who rush to pamper & pet the beast, striving to calm it, born of sheer fear!
      Just observe Anna Soubry’s wild eyes & body language in last nights BBCQT.

      • Colonel Mustard

        As a conservative I felt ashamed for her. It was hard not to see her as a deranged Labour party MP from the way she was behaving. We had all the usual appeasement platitudes trotted out as well.

      • Cosmo

        Anna Soubry – the personification of the modern, sanitised Conservative Party.

        • Conway

          The epitome of everything that has gone wrong with the Conservative Party, if you ask me.

    • CBinTH

      First of all, the NI thing is not really the opposite – people felt oppressed because of their Catholic, sectarian, identity, so they had a problem but they didn’t turn to religion or to a theologically derived ideology as a solution. In contrast to Iraq, the Catholic community turned to Republicanism, they turned to socialism – they turned to secular ideologies.

      Secondly, in Iraq, people who feel oppressed because of their religious identities are turning to religious ideologues, because those ideologues have a program and those ideologues get things done. So the very nature of those ideologies does play a role – if they were less developed or less popular to begin with then they wouldn’t be worth turning to as a solution. Islamist ideology (or ideologies) is (or are) an interpretation of Islam, so Islam is connected to the current phenomenon.

      Thirdly, it’s no good to say that just because people are led by material factors to turn to a particular ideology, that the ideology itself is passive. Muslims are not worse off than they were thirty, fifty, or ninety years ago, yet they are turning more often to politicised Islam as a solution. This is because of events within Islam, in particular the propagation of a particular idea and aspiration so that more people are aware of it and act to support it. The spread of Islamist ideology within the Islamic world is connected to the spread of Islamist and sectarian militia groups.

      Fouthly, Islam is culpable in that Islam not only lends itself to an Islamist interpretation but has no defences against it. Since everyone is almost obliged to agree that the early Muslims established the perfect society and since that society was based upon a system of laws and personnel behaviours dictated by God, it is difficult for a Muslim to argue against people trying to purify society by “returning” to supposedly more authentically Muslim practices. The only defence is either a technical one, to attack by citing a rival tradition, or the pejorative one, to label the Islamists as unbelievers and troublemakers.

      Fifth, people are feeling disenfranchised because of their religious identities – so if religion didn’t exist, they wouldn’t have that reason to feel threatened by one another.

    • MrsDBliss

      Excuse me, they were the Irish Republican Army. They may have been Catholic but they did not use their Catholic faith to justify their actions. They couldn’t because of the teachings of Cjrist. The Pope also criticised them for their actions. It is not the same at all outlying get.

    • vieuxceps2

      Trust old Tele to latch on to the latest lefty buzzword. Disenfranchise means to remove the right to vote or to remove a privilege of some sort.Anyone who claims that muslims need protection from suich “disenfranchisement” has a logic-screw loose.They are the molly-coddled of the land,they who must be obeyed….Or else……..

  • Colonel Mustard

    According to the King’s College website Mr Krieg is a PhD student whose research interests are:-

    Privatisation of Military and Security Services
    Liberal Theory
    Military Ethics
    Just War Theory
    Military Strategy in Post-Modern Warfare

    Does that make him an analyst or a theorist?

    • telemachus

      Please see my post
      Murray is as usual telling half a tale
      Please do not inflame things by jumping on his bandwagon

      • Colonel Mustard

        You are the one doing the inflaming and jumping on the bandwagon here. You are once again an apologist for the most appalling terrorism and attempting to justify it by blaming its victims.

        • telemachus


          What Murray and similar Islamophobic journalists do is drive reasonable Western Muslims into the arms of the radical Mullahs

          Do you believe for a moment that Reyaad Khan and Nasser Muthana would be spouting their poison from Syria if they had not been driven by perceptions of alienation in Cardiff?

          • Colonel Mustard

            Don’t be silly. So-called “Islamophobia” is a reaction after the facts not a catalyst.

            People are concerned about radical Islam because of what it is used to justify. That concern doesn’t radicalise those already radicalised.

            Your proposition is outrageous. It is like blaming wet weather on people using umbrellas and wearing raincoats.

            • telemachus

              I have said before
              If you embrace and respect those of different backgrouds they embrace you in return
              The Black and Tans led in a direct line to Gerry Adams
              We embrace him and his sidekick Martin and there has been peace since

              • Colonel Mustard

                You are doing it again. Extreme Irish radicalism preceded the Black and Tans not the other way around. The violence was escalated by Irish republican extremists in the face of concessionary and appeasing moves by the British government. Jeremy Black writes in this month’s Standpoint in the context of 1914 about the tendency to relativism which is so marked in left wing commentators:-

                “Moreover, the specific character of the politics and practices of the discipline (British academe) are compounded by a more widespread cultural tendency to relativism. This is linked to the intellectual tendency to focus on the supposed faults of ‘the system’, rather than the particular actors and groups within it. As a consequence transferred responsibility is a key element in commentary on the past.”

                You are demonstrating it precisely.

              • Hexhamgeezer

                Give it a rest tele, you are needed in Ed Balls’ colon where you will be more appreciated.

              • global city

                should we have embraced Nazis and pretended to ‘respect’ the tenets of Naziism?

                What you are demanding is exactly the same thing.

                • Andy

                  Embrace Telemachus. He is a National Socialist. You’ll be in a concentration camp before tea time.

              • Kitty MLB

                Stalin, Lenin, etc, should they have been embraced. And Hitler, if you embrace evil does
                it stop being evil?
                I’d like to point out Hindus, Sikhs &Buddihsts
                have been living peacefully in this country
                for many dacades. Its only Islam thats totally
                intolerant..don’t box the others with them
                just because Lefties think they all look the same.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  It struck me, Kitty, just this week that a cricketer named Moeen Ali, who has a really tremendous beard (the beard that’s feared) and scored a fine century for England, has done more for understanding and all the rest between us and Islam, than all the Jasmin Alibhai Brown’s you can think of. Ditto that runner (I forget his name; running’s not my thing) who won a gold medal in some Olympics or other. Now if we could find an English muslim who could pay football and didn’t bite people…..

                • Kitty MLB

                  Indeed.Finding a English muslim footballer who is vegetarian might be a good idea.What
                  is it about religion and beards as well as hair
                  in general. Muslims have beards and short
                  hair, sikhs have very long hair and short beards, buddhists have no hair and beards
                  and our Christian God has a long beard.
                  Back to sport, it does tend to unite, and the
                  runner that won the Olympics was Mo Farrar,
                  but I am not into running also.
                  Its strange though, whilst watching Wimbledon
                  I have noticed there are no Muslim tennis players.

                • telemachus

                  You truly are becoming the Louise Suarez of this blog
                  By the way are you sure God is not a woman?

                • Kitty MLB

                  ‘Louise Suarez of this blog’ Not on Saturdays,
                  no flesh to bite.Only grilled kippers, love
                  placing them under the hot grill and to be
                  devoured with lots of butter.
                  God , is a man, we have centuries of wise all
                  knowing men, with devine knowledge telling
                  us so.

                • TNT

                  Are you sure you’re not a Muslim? Curly logic seems to be their forte.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Michelangelo’s God doesn’t have a particularly long beard and that’s what he looks like. Thinkers tend to have beards, I don’t know why. For myself, I found shaving such a bloody chore

                • Kitty MLB

                  Agree, God would not have a beard like a wizard.Indeed, thinkers, philosophers, intellectuals and as such are always envisaged
                  with beards, even these days. Where lawyers
                  bankers etc tend to be clean shaven..
                  I also have no idea, maybe its the meaningful
                  verses the more shallow..who knows!
                  Not surprised you find shaving a chore..
                  having to do that every single day…
                  Although I am sure you’d not want to wax your
                  eyebrows, Fergus. A wee bit painful for you
                  chaps, I am sure.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  No Kitty, I do not want to wax my eyebrows.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Oh and you’d not like childbirth either.I remember speaking to a nurse once, she said
                  men got off scott free in her opinion, and then
                  she made a funny laugh and said women have
                  their own back as chaps have problems latter
                  in life. I remember feeling sorry for her male

                • Fergus Pickering

                  I do not want to bear children either. Over to the ladies for that.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  We would still make a mess of the World Cup. Nice thought though

              • Tom Allalone

                A fantastically simplistic analysis. There is no embracing of fundamentalist Islam, it’s us or them. Scroll back 70 odd years and you would be telling us to win over the Nazis with love. Coward? Traitor? Appeaser? Or all three?

                • telemachus

                  You are wrong wrong wrong

                  There are radical Muslims dedicated to jihad


                  Just as there were Crusaders

                  I say again

                  Remember the massacre of Ayyadieh where Our Christian King butchered 3000 Muslims:
                  When a spurious deadline was not met our own English King became infuriated and decided on a savage punishment for perceived intransigence. Our King personally oversaw and planned the massacre which took place on a small hill called Ayyadieh, a few miles from Acre. The killings were carried out in full view of the body of the Muslims. Over 3,000 men, women and children, were beaten to death, axed or killed with swords and lances.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Not that old canard again. The Crusaders were in Palestine precisely because of Muslim warlord persecution of what was at the time a predominantly Christian local population. The way that has been distorted to serve a modern political agenda of de-construction of Western values and appeasement of alien influences is tiresome. Islam was not a sedentary or indigenous religion in the region but an aggressive and invasive one exploited by dynastic imperialism. It came after Christianity not before and was responsible for far more violence and persecution against middle eastern cities and their peoples than the Crusaders ever were. You really are a chump if you believe that Islam in the 12th Century represented a single entity or a single people and was some kind of settled and indigenous state that the Crusaders violated.

                  But even so, to trot out an 800+ year old mediaeval Angevin atrocity in an attempt to justify current Islamic terrorism and violence takes relativism down to new levels of deranged depravity.

                • telemachus

                  Islam was not a sedentary or indigenous religion in the region but an aggressive and invasive one exploited by dynastic imperialism


                  I am currently reading Jordan’ wonderful book

                  “In the Name of God : Violence and Destruction in the World’s Religions”

                  In relation to South America we can conclude

                  Christianity was not a sedentary or indigenous religion in the region but an aggressive and invasive one exploited by dynastic imperialism

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Which is completely irrelevant to your original “point”.

                  You are very clearly trying to point the finger at Christianity here whilst at the same time trying to justify Islamic extremism and terrorism. That demonstrates your twisted mindset and is a far cry from being balanced.

                  Do you lefties really live in such a simplistic t** for tat world (moderation – sheesh) where you justify current evil as a kind of warranted revenge for things done by people who are long dead? It seems to permeate everything you peddle, from race, to religion and to feminism. Having to apologise for stuff none of us were responsible for is the least of it, but then to cite that past as a justification for modern terror is unfathomable. God save us from minds like yours. They have held sway for too long and will be the nemesis of the enlightened West.

                • lookout

                  Go to Walid Shoebats web site and learn some terrible truths

                • Abu

                  Telemachus……I read all of your posts and replies. It reminds me of an old Chinese saying…..No matter how loud you try to voice your point, a mindless person wont understand.

                  all the people replying to you are…..ill-informed about history and unwilling to hear at all.
                  Islamaphobia is rampant in this blog as always…because the author of this article is the father of it.

                • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

                  The Peace lovers are still murdering the Copts in Egypt and Christians in Pakistan.

                  Not to worry eh ?

                • Will Kettel
                • Guest

                  Yes, historically a lot of people have been murdered in the name of Christianity, but the west had got over that stage by the end of the seventeenth century. Islamic fundamentalism is a problem facing the world today

                • telemachus

                  Then, as for Christianity we must help them get over it

                • John_Wilkin

                  Yes, there WERE crusaders, there WERE covananters, there WAS the Spanish inquisition, a long time ago. There ARE radcal muslims dedicated to jihad, active today

                • TNT

                  If the Crusades had done their job properly, many of Islam’s 300 million victims would have lived out their natural lives in peace. Your whataboutery is not only desperate, but also outdated.

              • Cosmo

                Would you “embrace and respect” members of the BNP or EDL?

              • Fergus Pickering

                No. We began to win the war against the IRA and there has been peace since. I would not touch Adams with a ten-foot pole.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Careful Tele will accuse you of Polish racism and ‘tallism’. Not everybody in Poland is 10 feet tall.

              • balance_and_reason

                The Albanian Kosovans certainly embraced us when we gave them part of Serbia after they had ove run it with their numbers.

            • Kitty MLB

              Please tell, the wasp that there is no such word
              as “Islamophobia” he and the rest of the Left
              use it all the time as they sympathize with
              Islam and to manipulate the rest of us.
              Fear of those who wish to send us to oblivion
              is real and not a irrational phobia.

              • telemachus


                Those radicalised may wish to send us to oblivion

                The irrational phobia manifested in the Mail drives some to that radicalisation

                • Kitty MLB

                  So you are saying they are not responsible
                  for allowing themselves to become radicalized
                  by the brainwashing of others.
                  You are also saying that we are responsible
                  by the way we respond to the consequences
                  of their actions. And we should cower to them
                  and be quiet…Good God !!!!!!!!! !

                • telemachus

                  They are responsible in the way that the young kids in the Bogside were responsible for the road to IRA terrorism as they initially threw stones at the RUC when they were 7 years old

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You know nothing about it. Catholic disenfranchisement was hijacked by the IRA after the troubles began. The terrorism was exported from the Republic. The British government chose the wrong enemy. They should have held the Republic of Ireland wholly responsible for all acts of terrorism sponsored by the IRA whilst at the same time pushing for radical reform in the way Catholics were treated in Northern Ireland.

                  The Republic should have been warned in the strongest terms possible that any IRA terrorism would be considered as an act of war with reciprocal measures taken, including an economic blockade. It was fantastic that the IRA were allowed to pose and posture as “soldiers” of Ireland in a “war” against the British, bringing chaos to the United Kingdom whilst Ireland sat fat and happy, exonerated from involvement and a safe haven for terrorists.

                • Captain Caustic

                  You are clearly mentally ill

                • global city

                  History rather makes a mockery of your bizarre and twisted take on this issue. The motivation that inspired those two ‘lads from Cardiff’ is in the Koran and has been there since it was written.

                  Why don’t you attempt to outline what the UK should do about ‘Islamophobia’ that will guarantee Muslims not being inspired by their own religion’s extremes to hate?

                  The genuinely dangerous problem is that it is the likes of the meme you are peddling that has shaped policy for years… turn a blind eye, blame ourselves…. absolutely mad.

                • Kitty MLB

                  I remember when those Muslim men where
                  abusing those poor girls in Sheffield, the
                  Left prevented us from saying they were Muslim men…but they cleary were, and not
                  attacking Muslim girls.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  In answer to the question posed in your second paragraph: because he is a mindless idiot and a socialist nutter. Forgive me, I repeat myself ( with acknowledgement to Mark Twain).

                • Colonel Mustard

                  “The irrational phobia manifested in the Mail drives some to that radicalisation”

                  Lets see some evidence for that to convince us it is not just another silly left wing attack against the Daily Mail for not sharing its “progressive elitism”.

                • Andy

                  But have such deep Christianophbia, like so many Mohammedans.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  That’s a good point: given the widespread hate & contempt for Christianity amongst our political & ‘creative’ classes, why is there no objection to christianophobia?

                • Andy

                  We should use the term constantly. And the reason why Fascists like Telemachus don’t raise the persecution of Christians is because they are usually in the vanguard of that persecution.

                • telemachus

                  I am practicing C of E
                  That practice includes tolerance

                • Andy

                  You are a practicing liar.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  And in this instance, practice has made perfect.

                • Damaris Tighe

                  omg, that say’s it all …

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Well you need to practice a bit harder, old thing.

                • Catherine Waterman

                  Surely it’s patronising to suggest that ‘reasonable’ Muslims will jump into the arms of Mullahs because we rightly condemn islamist atrocities? Any ‘reasonable’ Muslim would understand our concerns.

                  It’s not the newspapers which radicalise Muslims, rather it’s certain maniacal fundamentalist clerics in certain mosques who cannot distinguish between religious and political ideology. Religion and Politics are one and the same thing to the Islamist.

                  Sharia law is regarded as sacred, and thus is never revised to accommodate an evolving worldview. An “eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,” remains a literal truth.

                  We can only await a grand awakening of the imprisoned fundamentalist mindset. Indeed, Islam needs to undergo an enlightenment fit for the 21st century – and this transformation needs to manifest itself sooner rather than later.

                • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

                  So Islamophobia in the UK Mail causes Muslims to kill one another in Iraq and Syria.
                  Good thinking Batman

                  btw these peace loving Muslims are not terrorists at all.
                  They cant possibly be because they are doing what all good Muslims are required to do.
                  Defending the faith by any and all means.

                  I thought the BBC was coming to ik’s senses when it described the ‘correct’ reaction to those ‘going away’ from Islam…kill ’em
                  Dare I say that Mohammed said this.
                  There is an Arabic word which i cant re call

                • Cosmo

                  Medication time!

                • Augustus

                  What is irrational is this absurd idea that all cultures are equal, or can be made equal by endless and unconditional immigration. It’s a doctrine that has been used by socialist political parties to create enclaves of voters who are dependent on government largesse for celebration of the culture they left behind. This multicultural pluralistic approach is now a plague which is destroying freedom throughout the West and threatening to move it into a new dark age. What needs to be done to begin to turn this extremist Islamic tide is to close all Islamic schools with any extremist teachings, ruthlessly exclude jihadi mullahs from mosques, ‎and aggressively prosecute any Muslim elements engaged in hate crimes, riots, or law ‎infringements of any kind.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Do you ever stop lying?

                • vieuxceps2

                  Tele my boy, the word disingenuous was invented specifically for people like you. You know Islam creates hatred and terror, you know that.Yet you swivel and wriggle to avoid the truth.Why not accept the real world> It’s quite a pleasant place.

            • Ooh!MePurse!

              I salute you on this superb post, Colonel.

            • Carl Gauthier

              Colonel Mustard, that was just superb.

          • Johnimus Prime

            Telemachus – for the record, I lived in Cardiff for over 10 years (moved out less than a year ago). Cardiff is one of the most racially diverse and inclusive places I’ve ever had the fortune to live in. Don’t presume to suggest that alienation exists in a city you clearly have no experience of. These unfortunate people have been brainwashed and are driven by militant extremists with a very different agenda from the majority of moderate Muslims, who co-exist and are accepted very willingly in a fantastic city.

            • Augustus

              telemachus is one of those misguided voices who, because of a combination ‎of cowardice in facing Islamic violence and fear that those he politically favours will lose Muslim electoral support, always appeases Islamists and always opposes any action required to turn the tide of extremism.

              • Colonel Mustard

                This country has suffered from those “misguided voices” for decades as they always seem the loudest and most influential. They are contrary people whose outspoken defence of the indefensible seems against all natural instincts but nevertheless gains traction.

                • Augustus

                  I agree. It may have been once true that multiculturalism and diversity produced some admirable qualities for a democracy, but those can only apply if all ‎parties are committed to an open society. Governments, not just in Britain, but throughout Europe, failed to at least try to integrate Muslim migrants. This enabled radical Islamists to create ‎separatist educational and religious institutions, with schools and mosques directed by ‎jihadists, and often financed by Saudi Wahhabi fanatics, who brainwash the next ‎generation of migrants into becoming more radical in their new countries than their parents had been in ‎their countries of origin. According to reports, In Syria alone there are some 11,000 foreign jihadists actively engaged in fighting. At least half of them are from the Arab world, but the remainder are from mainly Europe. Most of these will return home as seasoned killers, imbued with jihadi hatred ‎and seeking new targets to terrorise. These people should never be allowed to put a foot on European soil ever again.

                • telemachus

                  There is an unjustified outpouring of bile on this thread driven by the Intemperate original post from Murray


                  There are 2 sides to a proposition

                  There are millions of reasonable Muslims

                  We must not tar each and every Muslim with the same brush

                  Remember the massacre of Ayyadieh where Our Christian King butchered 3000 Muslims:
                  When a spurious deadline was not met our own English King became infuriated and decided on a savage punishment for perceived intransigence. Our King personally oversaw and planned the massacre which took place on a small hill called Ayyadieh, a few miles from Acre. The killings were carried out in full view of the body of the Muslims. Over 3,000 men, women and children, were beaten to death, axed or killed with swords and lances.
                  We truly have blood on our own Christian hands

                • Tom Allalone

                  And this happened how many centuries ago? You are getting more craven and pathetic with each passing comment

                • Colonel Mustard

                  “There are 2 sides to a proposition”

                  Why then are you always so intent on insisting on one? The only intemperance here is coming from you with your appalling attempts to justify and excuse terrorism by blaming it on its victims.

                  When Christian extremists are detonating car bombs, sending suicide bombers to kill innocent people and mass murdering helpless prisoners your fatuous 2 sides proposition might have some basis. Until then it is just appallingly insensitive and offensive to the victims of terror.

                • telemachus

                  As I said above


                  “In the Name of God : Violence and Destruction in the World’s Religions”
                  by Michael Jordon

                • Colonel Mustard

                  That has absolutely nothing to do with your earlier “argument” and you are just dodging and weaving again. Jordon, a former BBC broadcaster, is also described as “willing to set the record straight in key areas, arguing, for example, that the claim that early Muslims spread their religion only by “amicable persuasion” is “simply untrue.”

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  That idiot probably thinks he is quoting a basketball player.

                • Pedro

                  You give as an example of “blood on our hands” a 12 century massacre by Richard the Lion Hart on crusade. This was 900 years ago. How long do you think the english should pay for this? Is a 1000 year penalty enough? Now you don´t remember massacres by the other side, do you? The Armenian massacre by the Sultan of the Ottoman empire (the Caliph of the Muslim world), remember that? It happen in 1896, only 118 years ago, the grandchildren of the victims are still alive. This massacre with estimates of the dead ranging from 80,000 to 300,000, including at least 50,000 orphaned children should give you an idea of how an Islamic empire behaves when it has power and feels threatened for religious reasons.

                • Augustus

                  “…driven by the Intemperate original post from Murray”

                  What is so extreme in telling the truth? He simply quoted Andreas Krieg as saying: “But in all three cases this has nothing to do with Islam.”

                  But this is what the leader of the Nigerian jihadist group Boko Haram, Abubakar Shekau, said in a video last year: “Let the world know that we have been enjoined by Allah to kill the unbelievers. We shall continue to kill those who strive to stand against the will of Allah by opposing Sharia. We don’t mind if we die doing this because it is even a blessing for us to die in this cause and gain paradise.”

                  Ignorance of Islam’s potential for extremist ideology has always been a powerful tool in the furtherance of that religion over the centuries. Hopefully, that ignorance may now be starting to evaporate.

                • Conway

                  Governments, not just in Britain, but throughout Europe, failed to at least try to integrate Muslim migrants.” I’m sorry but since the koran enjoins the faithful not to make friends with the kuffir, no amount of govt attempts to integrate muslim migrants would have any effect whatsoever.

          • Malcolm Stevas

            I lived in Cardiff for a while, long ago, and felt alienated – weird sort of place – but I didn’t go off my rocker and join a bunch of terrorist wackos in a far-off land.
            Next you’ll be suggesting the 9/11 terrorists killed thousands of people because of “perceptions of alienation”.

          • rubes love

            If the prophet Mohammed were to be transported to modern day, war torn Syria/Iraq he would feel right at home – it’s as if he never left.

          • The Blue Baron

            Lots of them don’t appear to need much persuading.

          • mightymark

            Perhaps it is accusations like that drive reasonable non Muslims, fearful of the consequences of Islam’s extremist wing into fear, even hatred of Islam as such (“Islamohobia” if you like).

            All communities in the UK suffer, and will suffer further, from the refusal to accept a distinction between Islam as a religion and its politically motivated extremist wings of whom criticism is not only justified but a positive duty. It is notable that most of the far left and far right share that refusal the sole beneficiary of which is the Islamist extremists themselves.

            • Conway

              Islam (it means submission) is an ideology masquerading as a religion. There is no separation between mosque and state.

          • Al

            ……seriously? Please tell me this is wind up. I’ve heard of blind spots before, Telemachus, but this is actually disturbed.

          • Daidragon

            I’m from Cardiff. Live in a very multi cultural part of the city and can honestly say we have an old, well established and well integrated muslim community. We’re all Cardiffians. I’ve never known any major problems with either Islamophobia or Islamism. These boys have been somehow radicalised by extremists, I don’t know how that has happened but I do know it’s not Cardiff’s fault. Muslim parents are also terrified that their kids might get dragged into this vile ideology.

            • CBinTH

              When I lived in Cardiff it wasn’t especially multicultural, but there was a pretty content Muslim minority and most of them seemed to be able to find a happy third way between relative isolation and sacrificing their principles. For instance, there seemed to be plenty who went to pubs and night clubs but didn’t drink, as well as those who did. It seemed a pretty cohesive society.

          • CBinTH

            The trouble is, that between the actual experiences they go through, and the way they experience events in their minds, is their mental furniture. Anyone can be made to feel alienated if they are programmed to feel so. I would argue that there are people deliberately trying to make Muslims feel alienated in order to get them to turn against non-Muslim society, albeit perhaps not with the intention of driving them towards terrorism.

            For any minority, there is always the chance that they will feel momentarily alienated from the wider community because of a lack of shared sympathy for certain symbols and associations. The moment of cognitive dissonance, where one person feels a dislike for an unfamiliar symbol (or a symbol with negative associations), and the other person feels a sense of love and devotion, will naturally occur. It’s pointless to try to remove Islamophobia in society because unless everybody is a Muslim or sees things as if they were a Muslim, these moments of mental dissonance will always occur. The crucial factor is, the decision about how these moments are dealt with.

            Somebody feeling momentarily alienated doesn’t have to embrace or emphasise that alienation. And somebody who has embraced sectarian alienation doesn’t then have to fly off to Syria or Iraq to make war alongside really nasty people. There are factors which influence people’s decisions in an unhelpful direction. Exposure to radical ideologies, particularly through the internet, is likely to be one of them. Another might be the tendency to make excuses for Muslims and for Islam. The very nature of moral progress is to question one’s own decisions and their motives, and to question the groups with which you identify yourself. Maybe if these youths had been confronted with the worst truths about ISIS and the illogical rationale behind their ideology then they might not have flown off? Maybe if ISIS were not presented as a tool of victims righting grievances then they might think differently? Maybe Krieg and people like him had more of a negative effect on these people than Douglas Murray?

            • telemachus

              An interesting post
              But naive
              Within the Muslim world there are great wrongs being visited on other Muslims
              And a collective memory of great exploitation by many but particularly by British Colonialism
              As a result we have evil imams bent on taking the impressionable alienated youth and moulding them to their evil ways
              It seems to me that all we see is The Mail style wringing of hands and bemoaning history
              How much better to embrace the Muslims and truly integrate them to keep their alienated young away from the evil imams

              • TNT

                They don’t want to be integrated by you. Wishing something is better won’t make it so. At its heart Islam is a supremacist ideology, and to date there has been no recorded way of making its adherents integrate. I challenge you to name me one credible example of Islam co-existing peacefully and productively with its host nation.

          • vieuxceps2

            They are diven to their poison-spouting by their poisonous faith. Why do you seek to justify that?

          • Zionist lackey

            As I understand it a phobia describes an irrational fear of something. But my fear of ‘modern’ Islam is perfectly rational

          • Ben Russell

            So what are you proposing? That Islam is both the problem and the solution..? Being friendly to these troglodytes has failed in every single instance. They regard it as a sign of weakness. Strength is clearly the only thing they respect.

      • Fergus Pickering

        Inflame things by jumping on his bandwagon? I love it. Just keep on taking the tablets, tele old son.And remember, when six million jews were exterminated National Socialism was not to blame.

        • telemachus

          There may be parallels
          First demonise
          Then marginalise
          Then regard as subhuman
          You see it is a slippery slope

          • Kitty MLB

            Oh come on wasp, should we keep these
            impressionable and alienated young Muslims
            away from their parents as well?
            What silliness.

          • Fergus Pickering

            What nonsense you talk. It is THEY who speak of kaffirs (that’s you and me, Tele) who regard US as subhuman. Their religion is very fond of killing anybody not of their faith, and thus its adherents are a danger to our state. Are you keen on ALL religions, Tele, including those practised by African immigrants which require the sacrifice of children?

    • The Masked Marvel

      Defending and justifying extreme violence is only a by-product of the looney left’s reflexive gainsaying of anything coming from the right. Of course, they don’t actually value human life the way ordinary decent people do, but in this case it’s not defending someone slaughtering millions for the greater good.

      If anything, this telemachus seems to be a racist who apparently believes the brown-skinned people can succeed only with the benevolent helping hand of the enlightened white man. The Levant must have been a much more peaceful, socially healthy, and economically egalitarian region at some point in history, if the unrest now is due to people chafing under austerity and not some other influence. One just can’t seem to find that chapter in any history book…..