Coffee House

Has Merkel blinked in Juncker row?

3 June 2014

7:05 PM

3 June 2014

7:05 PM

Angela Merkel has reportedly blinked in the row over Jean-Claude Juncker’s candidacy for president of the European Commission and is now mooting IMF boss Christine Lagarde. The Reuters report cites two French sources who say the German Chancellor has asked France whether it could put forward Lagarde.

If this is true, then it does explain or at least justify the very bullish tone that government sources took this morning when briefing Coffee House about the prospect of Juncker being blocked. And it would be a good sign that David Cameron is indeed getting his way if Merkel was prepared to raise the idea with François Hollande.

But it would be odd if Hollande were enthusiastic about this. The Reuters report says he was concerned about Europe losing the top job at the IMF, and indeed France would be unlikely to want to see a second French head of the organisation stepping down so early when the circumstances of Dominique Strauss-Kahn’s departure were so controversial. So Merkel may have raised it, but that is by no means the same as the deal being done.


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  • Mike

    The more the EU elite show their arrogance to the peoples of Europe the better it will be for UKIP and other European groups fighting against loss of sovereignty and all that it means. Keep it up Merkel as the more this continues the harder the fall when it happens.

  • tomthumb015

    What ever your political views left or right, Juncker is badly in need of a personality transplant if you have ever heard him speak, and thats in any language? Lagarde is a better choice by a mile, mainly because she is a pragmatist and not a federalist like Juncker.

  • allymax bruce

    Yes, put Lagarde up as ‘the strawman’, but move Italy’s Moscovici into the job; or, Germany,, prepare for another war on mainland Europe.
    Germany must get rid of Merkel; the pace-of-change in Europe has overtaken her ideals & politics; she must step aside.
    France must deliver on the construction projects for Germany; Hollande, they won’t stop at mainland Europe!

    David Cameron must hold his stand; now is the time for David Cameron to ‘install his legacy’; saving ‘Britain’ from the ‘mission-creep’ of the EC. Where the evil traitor Bliar sold all our souls to Lisbon, Cameron has the opportunity to be remembered as the ‘British’ PM that righted Bliar’s wrong.

  • Will Rees

    I would have thought Merkel blinking would concern her reconsidering the CDU’s position within the EPP. Polling in Germany found only 7% associated voting CDU with Juncker and CDU campaign materials had Merkel’s photo on them.
    But it is a a 2 round fight and you have to consider what the Euro Parliament will do to a candidate that isn’t Juncker.
    If it is Juncker though, we here in the the UK will have a Commission President, who considers himself democratically elected and unsympathetic to the UK’s position. A position that sees us the public having had no say on the process – there was no vote on Lisbon, unable to vote for the candidate EPP didn’t stand in UK, and unable to watch the debates that got him there. It won’t wash with the British public.

    • Denis_Cooper

      “Polling in Germany found only 7% associated voting CDU with Juncker”

      I expect the level of association between voting for a national party and the
      choice of the next President of the EU Commission would be even lower in other EU countries.

      To make that association firstly you have to be aware that the national party
      is affiliated to a grouping in the EU Parliament and secondly you have be aware that the grouping has taken upon itself to nominate somebody for that post.

      Then thirdly if you know both those things you have to allow that knowledge
      to significantly influence your voting intention, and fourthly you have to
      actually vote.

      All of which makes a total nonsense of the claim that “Europeans want Juncker to become EU President”.

      And, meanwhile, according to a Tory-inspired opinion poll it turns out that
      over 90% of those “Europeans” say they have never even heard of Juncker:

      http://order-order.com/2014/06/04/poll-just-8-2-of-europeans-can-name-jean-claude-juncker/

      However there is quite a close correspondence between numbers who have heard of him, 8%, and the numbers who reckon that this is the way to select the Barroso’s replacement, 10%.

      Personally I would prefer to see him blocked, not because he is himself a raving eurofanatic but to give one in the eye to all the pretentious raving eurofanatics in the EU Parliament.

      • Will Rees

        who will plant one in the eye straight back at the Council and invoke things like sovereignty of parliament, democratic will of the people, and dismiss the selection.

        It is a real mess that will require 4 dimensional thinking and action on 2 fronts.

        • Denis_Cooper

          I would very much welcome members of the EU Parliament openly making a claim to it being a sovereign parliament, when they could be forcefully reminded that it is not, it is nothing more than an institution of the EU created by the sovereign member states through their treaties and exercising powers which those sovereign member states have delegated to it, and – who knows? – if it gave enough trouble then it could be abolished, as it should be.

          • Will Rees

            I have no doubt Charles Stewart was saying similar things in the early 1640’s, though not about the EU obviously

            • Denis_Cooper

              Maybe, but I can’t really see people flocking to side with the EU Parliament in a war against the member states.

              • Will Rees

                One of my ancestors got done for regicide. Such brazen brinksmanship can land you in trouble. I can understand why Merkel is wavering

                • Denis_Cooper

                  From the 1644 Soldier’s Catechism:

                  “I fight for the preservation of our parliament, in the being whereof (under God) consists the glory and welfare
                  of this kingdom. If this foundation be overthrown, we shall soon be the most slavish nation in the Christian world.”

                  How many people would ever say anything like that about the EU Parliament, apart from its members and the various hangers-on? Who would care if it was shut down?

                • Will Rees

                  Ah but we in the UK had the betrayal of the Putney debates. Won’t get fooled again.

                  A greater % voted in the EU elections than were entitled to vote in the 1640’s.

                  Do you reckon Cromwell made up In the name of god go …on the spot or practised it at home?

                • Denis_Cooper

                  I don’t know.
                  I do know that if the governments of the EU member states decided to change their treaties so that the EU Parliament ceased to exist then hardly anyone would object and many more would say “good riddance”.
                  Not that I expect that to happen, because people keep electing eurofederalists into government not just in this country but in other EU countries as well.

              • Will Rees
                • Denis_Cooper

                  Very amusing!

    • Denis_Cooper

      Actually I did watch one of the debates on the BBC Parliament Channel:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27430515

      I’ve no idea how many other people in the UK watched it; that channel usually gets less than 1% of viewers.

      • Will Rees

        The wikipedia page on the elections, lists the debates no mention of the BBC covering it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014

        • Denis_Cooper

          It was this one:

          “A fourth live television debate between candidates for the presidency of the European Commission took place on 15 May, hosted by the European Broadcasting Union.[73] This debate took place in front of a live studio audience in the European Parliament’s hemicycle (plenary chamber) in Brussels at 21:00 CSET/20:00 WEST.[74] Veteran Italian journalist, war correspondent, TV anchor, author, filmmaker, and broadcasting executive Monica Maggioni (it) was the main presenter.[74]”

          • Will Rees

            this has all the transparency of a Vogon planning application process

            • Denis_Cooper

              It was what might be described as a “Potemkin” debate:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village

              Displays of tremendous enthusiasm from the presenters and the selected studio audience, with supporters of the different “candidates” clapping and shouting and even with women screaming out for Guy or for Jean-Claude as if they were pop stars instead of rather creepy politicians.

              And they had a young chap keeping an eye on the reaction in the social media who excitedly reported at the end that it had been huge, all of 15,000 tweets and other interactions over the internet. He didn’t bother to mention that there were 350 million people eligible to vote and 15,000 was pretty pathetic, even if each one was from a separate person that would average out as about one weird person in every town.

  • Denis_Cooper

    Bear in mind that on November 4th 2009 Cameron agreed that the choice of the next President of the EU Commission would take into account the results of the elections to the EU Parliament.

    And now:

    http://euobserver.com/eu-elections/124420

    “One thing is clear: Europeans want Juncker to become EU president. Schulz has the second-best result. A third person, someone who didn’t stand for election, should not get the job. Otherwise democracy turns into a farce. Maybe that was possible in the [east German] DDR or in right-wing nationalist banana republics. But not in the EU,” wrote Matthias Doepfner, the CEO of Axel Springer publishing house to which Bild belongs.”

    It’s an interesting idea that “Europeans want Juncker to become EU president”, when the majority of people in the EU would be hard put to even say who he is, and only 43% of those eligible to vote in the EU Parliament elections chose to do so, and only about a quarter of those who voted, or say 10% of the total eligible electors, cast their votes for national parties affiliated to the federalist European People’s Party, and in most cases without having any knowledge of that affiliation.

    A more accurate statement might be:

    “Only a very tiny minority of Europeans have any clear view on who they would want to become EU president, but of that very tiny minority slightly more would prefer Juncker to Schulz”.

    But that would strip away the veneer of democracy which the EU Parliament
    decided to apply and expose the EU as being little better than the DDR.

  • right_writes

    Did someone tell me that the European Union was a democratic organisation… Or did I just dream that?

    If it looks as though Cameron is getting his own way…

    He isn’t!

    • Grey Wolf

      Cameron is getting nothing from the EU aside from a swollen face.

      There is a huge amount of spinning going on in the media lately posing Cameron as some sort of a saviour from the depredations of the EU. Writes Peter Hitchens – ”The really interesting thing is that it isn’t just the Tories’ media chums who are doing this. Many Left-wing types are involved.
      This is because the New Labour media faction have rightly recognised David
      Cameron as what he says he is, the true heir to Blair.”

  • Rossspeak

    I just suggested on the Torygraph website that Sepp Blatter may be available soon -and that his CV would suit him admirably for the role.

  • EHGombrich

    The German magazine der Spiegel titled in its online edition today: “Camerons leere Drohung” “Cameron´s empty threat.”

  • Real Scot

    The EU:

    “If it’s a Yes, we will say ‘on we go’, and if it’s a No we will say ‘we continue’.”

    “When it becomes serious, you have to lie.”

    “We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don’t understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.”

    “Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?”

    ” I’m ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious […] I am for secret, dark debates.”

    “We all know what to do, we just don’t know how to get re-elected after we’ve done it.”

    Do we really want to be subjected to the EU and its plans?

    Sod these undemocratic arrogant pri*ks. How dare they presume to decide what is and what is not in our best interests. They only make decisions about what is ‘in our best interests’ based on their communist ideology.

    • allymax bruce

      The Yes Campaign must make a final date for ‘MSM interviews’; preferably 3 weeks before the iReferendum vote. The MSM are directing their Psychological Warfare attacks on the Public at discrediting the veracity and legitimacy of Yes Campaign by obfuscation, deriding, and sneering at it. The Public should get their ‘Yes news’ from specific broadcasts; not the MSM.

  • Ooh!MePurse!

    The convoluted and contorted positions of Ukip supporters trying to make their narrative fit every single issue is increasingly hilarious. And yet pathetic at the same time. Like watching three elderly people playing Twister.

    Vote Ukip for the European status quo and a Labour government.The only way to get change in Europe is to vote Conservative.

    • HookesLaw

      Kippers can dream up 3 different conspiracies before breakfast, and come up with 10 different reasons for delivering the country to a europhile labour party.
      Any truth is what they say it is, no proofs are necessary, indeed a bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing and needs to be avoided at all costs. Polls suggest that 23% of kipper voters think the EU is a good thing. Indeed support for the EU has gone up even as the kipper vote has gone up. No prizes for guessing what really motivates kippers.

      • Smithersjones2013

        Hooky you’ve got a little friend to chunter with. Isn’t that sweet.

        Does he know about your social problems?

        • HookesLaw

          How sweet for you chuntering with your fellow brain dead nutjobs all day, whipping yourselves into one one mad bout of hysteria after another. How sweet for you too you poor little dear. Got nothing better to say?
          Your social problems are laid before the world on a regular basis. And being an ignorant bigot is only the least of them.

          • Smithersjones2013

            Actually I should have said anti-social problems…….

            • HookesLaw

              Really should you? You and your kippers are the ones who hate everyone and are pushing intolerance as far as it can go.
              What would people feel if a house full of kippers moved next door?

              • Ooh!MePurse!

                I might be worried of being bored to death. I am convinced that they are a religious sect. Consider the evidence. First, slavish devotion to their one true leader. Second, a refusal to accept any criticism of or deviation from their leader’s message, however evidence based it is. Third, an absence of a sense of humour or commonsense. Fourth, massive self-delusion. Fifth, massive paranoia. I’m sure there are many other parallels. They make my flesh creep.

                Vote Ukip for the European status quo and a Labour government. Vote Conservative for change in Europe.

                • Wessex Man

                  You don’t seem to realise that you two are boring everyone here to sleep.

                • MirthaTidville

                  They are one and the same Wessex

              • Wessex Man

                You can say that Hooky, why you’ve never answered my question about the ex-mayor of Swindon forced to resign for his disgusting discription of the disabled or your councillor who thinks that the best way to deal with immigrants is with a Machete.

                Your spin is going into a tailspin Hooky babe!

              • MirthaTidville

                I would much prefer to live next door to a house full of kippers(actually I do as do many others) rather than one who calls everyone bigots and nut jobs

          • Wessex Man

            My grandmother used to say that when liars lose the argument they turn to lies, nice of you to confirm it Hooky babe.

  • Smithersjones2013

    Has Merkel blinked? Has she heck as like. Lagarde’s name has been touted for months. The Economist was peddling her name in February. Lagarde is a committed integrationist who probably is better equipped to lead the financial integration of the Euro and she is likely the EU Council of Minister’s choice rather than the EU Parliament’s choices of Juncker or Schulz.

    If anything this is an attempt by the Council to impose their will on the EU Parliament given the make-up of the Parliament has changed and is more likely to rely on a grand coalition of the integrationist groups. This is just internal EU politics. It probably does not help the UK one bit. As Lagarde is a economic liberal she is bound to oppose anything which interferes with free movement of Labour and without that Cameron is screwed. Until the British Government once again controls its borders the government is utterly derelict in its primary function.

  • Greenslime

    Their lips are moving!

  • global city

    she is also a slavish supporter of the EU project. She has basically bent the IMF into becoming the Euro’s backstop, at the expense of many poor countries round the world.

    Juncker is a straw man.

    • telemachus

      She did this with Osborne’s active connivance
      It is payback time

      • Wessex Man

        you don’t care about millions going hungry then you cruel socialist you.

      • global city

        That is true.

        Voting for a political party is always tactical to some extent. You’d better place your x next to UKIP in your local area!

        • telemachus

          And the moral dimension?

          • global city

            that is part of the tactical equation. You should never vote for a party for any reason like blind loyalty, you should weigh up the situation and what a party is offering. Tactics will decide what party you vote for…to some extent, as I wrote above.

          • global city

            that is part of the tactical equation. You should never vote for a party for any reason like blind loyalty, you should weigh up the situation and what a party is offering. Tactics will decide what party you vote for…to some extent, as I wrote above.

  • Tim

    Intern analysis within the bubble

    Of course the frenchbwould prefer a French head. The IMF is secondary. Grow up Isabelle and stick to housing or whatever you did for five minutes before this

    • the viceroy’s gin

      France is just a half-step behind Spain and Italy in the race to euro bankruptcy. They are fiscally promiscuous, so it’s not surprising that Dave would agree with them on this. He’s an irresponsible spendaholic as well .

    • allymax bruce

      “Grow up Isabell”
      Another ‘bright young thing’; thrust into the sphere of responsibility, with no worldly knowledge nor experience.

  • swatnan

    Has possibilities. Christine goes to the European Commission and Gordon steps into her stillettos at the IMF. And Tony goes to the UN, as the ‘Peace candidate’. I like it.

    • Wessex Man

      and the world descends into WW3!

    • Inverted Meniscus

      The best recipe for apocalypse and total insanity I have read this morning. Brown was the most incompetent, spendthrift, arrogant and disastrous Chancellor and PM in the entire history of Britain. He has no qualifications to be head of the IMF and a partisan scumbag like Brown would simply use the position as a stick to beat the Tories. That it is why Osborne and Cameron stopped the swine from becoming head of the IMF in the first place.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    So Dave’s choice is the IMF’s toady, who is also the EUSSR’s choice, obviously.

  • UniteAgainstSocialism

    Cameron is going to spin this and say its a victory for his negotiation skills, when all along Christine Lagarde had the job anyway.

    Dont be fooled by cast iron Dave – Vote UKIP

    • telemachus

      See below
      Osborne has been beavering away day and night at this
      *
      Just think
      Lagarde and Osborne are soulmates
      Cameron will get everything he needs
      The referendum is as good as won
      *
      Best
      Farage is dead in the water
      The moral tone of the nation rises

      • @PhilKean1

        .
        You want Farage “dead in the water” ?

        Farage. The leader of the only political party which aims to return control of Britain’s politicians back to the British people?

        There are people who try to hold Britain’s politicians to account. And others who’ve allowed them to bring our beloved country to the point of ruin.

        I thank our stars that the former group are at last starting to outnumber the latter.
        .

        • telemachus

          You forget the moral dimension
          *
          Farage would promise what people seem to want
          And lose their souls

          • Wessex Man

            The moral dimension, was that what made you throw a hissy fit when you left UKip for the dark side tele? If so, you’ve jumped out of the pan and into the fire!

          • @PhilKean1

            With Labour and Cameron’s Labour MK2 buying votes with taxpayers’ money, I fail to see how you can accuse Farage of promising people “what they want”

            Unless, of course, you mean he is promising to reinstate their sacred democracy?

            And there should be NO place for “morality” and religion in UK politics.
            .

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Hilarious coming from the mouthpiece of Labour the most dishonest coterie of scum on planet Earth. Labour the party of lies, lying and liars.

      • UniteAgainstSocialism

        the only thing that is dead in the water is the Labour Party. Apart from its champagne socialists and its imported immigrant voters in Londonistan, Labour voters in the rest of the country are old age pensioners who arent going to be around for much longer, and once they die off, so will the barbaric socialist ideology of the fascist Labour Party

        Get used to UKIP – Its the future of Britain

        • telemachus

          UKIP have almost been and gone
          Their purpose is over
          They have galvanised the proper politicians

          • UniteAgainstSocialism

            rofl…..you wish. There’s an by-election tomorrow, Labour will come 3rd, because they’re finished as a Party

            • telemachus

              Labour discounted Newark long ago

              • Wessex Man

                oh dear oh dear.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  He is an ignorant socialist nutter – what do you expect.

          • Wessex Man

            oh dear.

            • telemachus

              Oh dear indeed
              Your cry tomorrow morning

    • HookesLaw

      The red queen speaks. How are the flamingos down the rabbit hole?
      Who knows who will get the job, but if Junker does not get it then a lot of people will look stupid.

      • southerner

        Finally commenting on matters European then. How about that third place?

        • HookesLaw

          Finally? Where have you been. How do you argue with 23% of UKIP voters saying they support and want to stay in the EU? How do you argue with support for the EU rising?

          • southerner

            How about that third place?

            • HookesLaw

              How about it? Is that all you can say? That was days ago why have you just surfaced? Where was the earthquake, what I saw was labours vote going up 10%, that’s europhile labour.
              Did UKIP get 33%? No. That was the turnout. In fact turnout was down on last time. Farage claimed it would be a record, it was not.
              In the locals I read it won 161 seats and the Tories won over 1300 and europhile labour won over 2000. 23% of kipper voters in a poll said they did not want to leave the EU. Despite everything, all the free publicity from Clegg, the kipper vote share was down on elections last year.

              What do I see what do I say? I see kippers gifting the govt of this country to a europhile labour party led by a crypto Marxist.

              • Wessex Man

                Given that the Tory percentage of seats dropped by 26.76% all your spin in the world can’t hide the fact that the people have spoken and blown you raspberry Hooky babe.

                You’ll never learn, the more you spin the deeper you bury yourself and your party.

                Meanwhile the relentless increase of UKip membership goes on while your numbers fall and fade away.

              • southerner

                Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
                Breathe.
                Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

              • MirthaTidville

                Oh come on Hooky, even you don`t believe all you read in the polls……………….oh of course you do

          • flexdream

            How many Tory, Labour, Liberal and Nationalist voters want to leave the EU?

          • Wessex Man

            How do you argue with losing six seats and finishing behind labour under the Command of Bacon Buttie Ed?

            How do you spin rubbish and tie yourself in knots-ASK HOOKY BABE!

          • Thomtids

            Have you checked with a Doctor if you need to change your prescription?
            Where do you get this 23%of UKIP want to stay in the EU? These are the number of Socialists/Tories who are voting tactically? Your friend Dave’ suggested it and you agreed not to disagree?
            Go on, Mr Goebbels, up your game is.

    • allymax bruce

      It would be ‘business as usual’ for the IMF and US greedy Zionists if Lagarde got the job. There’s nobody ‘in the frame’ that should get the job. If this is going to be our European future, then we must not let the Zionist bankers install their drones; we install who we want, or we pull out.

      • Wessex Man

        That’s quite racist, are you a National Socialist or do you just have a chip on your shoulder against yet another race?

  • Mrs Josephine Hyde-Hartley

    I think Christine Lagarde should do nicely, thanks very much. She’s not the boss of the IMF because she’s European particularly but because she’s good, I think. She’s a good communicator – even I have heard of her.

    • Thomtids

      You may also have heard of Jack the Ripper but that’s no reason to rate him for the job either.

  • Swiss Bob

    What is the point of this rearranging of deckchairs?

  • you_kid

    Christine Lagarde – what an amazing coup that would be. If that meant Dave was getting his way then that would be an added bonus, surely.

    • Grey Wolf

      How many glasses of water have you had today?
      Remember, you need 8.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …are you trying to start a drought or something? You set all that muppet’s sockpuppets loose on 8 glasses of water each per day and it’ll be like the Sahara.

      • allymax bruce

        Just had 8 glasses of water. Now I’m totally wired. http://ind.pn/RzfvyK pic.twitter.com/I4Z9Z1MDCl

  • misomiso

    Merkel is not nearly as Pro Junker as she seems. She just got trapped by the Federalists in the nomination process, and would quite like to be blocked by other EU leaders.

    But she is very tribal, which may mean Pascal Lamy and other lefties aren’t in such a strong position.

  • telemachus

    Osborne has been working on this for months
    He persuaded Schauble long ago
    Merkel has gone home to listen to her Finance Minister

    • you_kid

      that actually hurt

      • Grey Wolf

        Eat well.
        8 glasses of water a day.
        Cut down on the masturbation.

    • Grey Wolf

      You should be tried for treason and locked up in the Tower!

      • Andy

        Just when we are having the condemned cell at Wandsworth redecorated.

        • Grey Wolf

          Fine. But have you guys got anywhere close to building the ‘Traitor’s Gate’?

    • Smithersjones2013

      And look what Lagarde had to say about Schauble in 2012:

      Today, nobody has done more than my dear friend Wolfgang Schäuble to further the cause of European integration, and the destiny of a unified
      Germany within a united Europe. Nobody is more worthy of the mantle of
      Charlemagne or more deserving of the Charlemagne Prize………

      ………And so the award was given to a new generation of leaders—people like Helmut Kohl, Francois Mitterrand, Vaclav Havel, Jacques Delors, Tony
      Blair, Angela Merkel, and Jean-Claude Trichet. And indeed, people like
      Bill Clinton and Pope John Paul II too.

      Wolfgang Schäuble belongs to that defining generation. He has devoted
      his entire life to the hard fight of European integration, and has
      taken the helm at some of its toughest moments. He embodies the virtues
      that underpin this award. He is a bridge between generations.
      There is simply no greater advocate for European integration on the
      stage today than Wolfgang Schäuble. His guiding philosophy is that
      Europe can only survive and thrive it if binds irrevocably together. As
      he said himself “nothing is achieved if you cannot convince the people than unity is good”

      How cosy. I doubt Schauble needed much persuasion…..

      • EHGombrich

        Well, I think Juncker might be able to top that. He famously said:

        “We decide something, then we will float this idea and we will wait a while to see what happens. If there is no clamour or uproar, because most people don´t even understand what was decided, then we continue, step by step until there is no turning back anymore.”

        And during the whole Greek bailout thing: “When things get tough you have to lie lie lie.”

      • telemachus

        Indeed
        But Osborne has pushed Schauble to change Frau Merkel’s mind
        Lagarde herself has a quid pro quo with Osborne

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