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Ex-Tory minister: free schools will let extremists in

14 June 2014

11:55 AM

14 June 2014

11:55 AM

The row about extremism in schools has over the past week widened out to the role of faith in education in general. This morning I interviewed Crispin Blunt, a former Conservative Justice Minister and Duncan Hames, a Lib Dem MP, for Radio 4’s The Week in Westminster. Blunt told me he fears that the Coalition’s own flagship free schools programme will sow division in England and allow extremist sects to educate children at the taxpayer’s expense. He went so far as to suggest that free schools would move England towards the situation in Northern Ireland:

‘It is extraordinary that with 30 years of terrorist violence in Northern Ireland, where 95% of the children go to a school which is almost exclusively Protestant or Catholic, that it takes the American President to come here two years ago to point out the fact that we are continuing to build division into our society in Northern Ireland, and we’re now starting to do it, particularly in England with the policies that we’re putting in place. We are encouraging this division in society, paid for by the taxpayer! It is an extraordinary state of affairs when something that’s absolutely not in the public interest is being encouraged as a consequence of our policies.’

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He added:

‘It’s then in the current environment or the developing environment about people’s attitude to faith and we’re seeing it with these Islamist schools and it’s Islam at the moment that is a cause of concern, but there are Christian sects, who apply a very segregated view of society on people who accept that denomination, they’re not allowed to talk and socialise outside that particular group… this is the consequence of having free schools, it’ll be taxpayers who are then paying for this type of education… It is now happening so the opportunity to set up faith-based schools, free schools, with taxpayers’ money has now been presented to these groups. Now the taxpayer should not be supporting something that appears self-evidently to be against the public interest, which is properly preparing children for life in modern Britain.’

You can listen to the full programme here. And read Douglas Murray’s take on the ‘Trojan Horse’ row in this week’s magazine here.

UPDATE, 4pm: The Education department has responded to Blunt’s comments. Here’s a statement from a spokesman:

‘It’s nonsense to suggest extremists can set up free schools. Our due diligence and counter extremism unit vets all applications carefully and any group we believe is unlikely to run a fully inclusive school is not allowed to proceed.

‘It is also wrong to imply that free schools are more likely to be faith schools – in fact only 26 per cent of free schools are faith schools, compared to 30 per cent of all schools. Faith free schools must be attractive to students of all faiths and none and, unlike other state faith schools, can only admit up to 50% of students on the basis of faith.

‘It is also misleading to draw links between free schools and events in Birmingham – none of the schools under investigation in Birmingham are free schools. In fact, free schools are part of the solution – with groups like Perry Beeches bringing an outstanding education to children in some of the poorest parts of the city.’

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Show comments
  • greencoat

    ‘The row about extremism in schools has over the past week widened out to the role of faith in education in general.’
    Yes and that is what the Left wants. The problem is not ‘extremism or ‘faith schools’.
    The problem is Islam.

  • misomiso

    Thats a really nice thank you to the Cameronistas who helped him fight off against deselection.

    What they really needed was more blue on blue attacks over Michael Gove’s education policy.

  • Bonkim

    Keep religion out of schools – and do not give public funds to faith-schools.

  • GraveDave

    Crispin Blunt.
    That name says it all.

  • Fergus Pickering

    Crispin Blunt is a silly…..er…felllow

  • Smithersjones2013

    The problem with Blunts argument is we have always had faith schools on the UK mainland. I went to a CofE school just like millions of others and millions went to catholic school. The only difference is the on the mainland Protestants and Catholics had in large part sorted their issues out centuries ago.

    This is only a problem because of the dereliction of government over the last 40 years where instead of encouraging integration they instead peddled a policy of uncontrolled immigration, uncontrolled multi-culturalism (that pandered to cultures that conflict with the social and legal rules of the land) and divisive and unjust (positive) discrimination against the majority resulting a sense of entitlement amongst those who have been disciminated in favour of and a sense of resentment amongst a large part of the majority. Even better they even then devised a law, the Human Rights Act which makes it nigh on impossible for them to rectify their mistakes!

    Free schools are not the problem they are symptom of the conflict created by derelict and slovenly government..

    If Blunt wants to address the issues then at least he should address the real issues instead of attempting to distract from and ignore them.

    • The Masked Marvel

      This does seem as just another attempt to whitewash the real problem and an opportunity for those who dislike Christian faith schools in general to indirectly attack them. Northern Ireland is a false analogy. Unless, that is, Blunt is actually suggesting that Muslims at faith-based schools will become violent against the Christians in their city. But he isn’t, of course.

      “Islam, at the moment, is the cause for concern.”

      At the moment? As if these things are cyclical, a couple of decades ago it was a different religion causing problems, and in twenty years it will be another group. Intellectual dishonesty on display, and the Spectator presenter seems to be playing right along, which is sad. Then Blunt goes on to say that there are also problematic Christian sects. How many have blown up your neighbours? What about the yeshivas? Are they equally dangerous to society, teaching Jewish children to hate the country in which they live and want Judaism taking over Britain? Sickening relativism and muddling thinking once again from our elites. This blind adherence to a false utopian ideology – and it is a false ideology – is the cause of the failure in social cohesion in Britain, not Christian faith schools.

      • Augustus

        Agree. There are plenty of indigenous people in Britain who have experienced a form of religious indoctrination in their youth. But Jewish and Christian sects have usually been able to put their different cultures in perspective and integrate normally throughout their further lives. Most Muslims can’t do that. they not only hate criticism, they also hate the critics. Their ‘truth’ is too firmly planted in their brains, which makes them a perfect breeding ground for extremist educational indoctrination for radical Islamist views among pupils, such as anti-Semitism, homophobia and misogyny.

        • The Masked Marvel

          The Jews’ “truth” is just as firmly planted in their own brains. The orthodox ones, anyway, not the secular Miliband or Peston types who have little or nothing to do with their religious heritage. The important difference lies not so much in what that “truth” is but rather in what they’re meant to do about it. Also, as we all know but our betters refuse to acknowledge (even at the Spectator its a rare voice admitting it), there’s a vast difference in the cultures and civilizations from which each group hails.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Is Peston a jew? By God, they’re everywhere.

            • The Masked Marvel

              Peston’s a problem because of his ideology and position of influence in journalism and at the BBC, not because of his ethnic background.

              • ButcombeMan

                He is a BBC problem because he cannot communicate. Sometimes he can hardly speak. Awful.

                • The Masked Marvel

                  That, too.

              • Fergus Pickering

                But perhaps all this is DUE to his ethnicity. He’snot a problem to me but then I’m not a very deep thinker. I find him entertaining.

                • The Masked Marvel

                  Peston himself may not be a problem for you, but one wonders about Jews in general, considering your “another one?” reaction.

          • Augustus

            True. And my experience of orthodox Jews from Israel in my teens was how they were able to assimilate very easily with us Westerners. No doubt the same is true with British orthodox Jews. Funnily enough Moses is regarded very highly in the Koran and is considered one of the main prophetic predecessors to Mohammed.

            • MrsDBliss

              Up until the point the Jews rejected Muhammad. Then he was suddenly down graded.

            • The Masked Marvel

              Many do not assimilate, and instead remain in their closed enclaves, venturing out only during the day if they have jobs in the outside world. And they do have their own internal problems. What’s important, though, is that they do not teach their children to hate and to want to kill critics of their religion. Every time Hamas shoots rockets into Israel, or yet there’s yet another incident of violence against Jews by Muslims in France, for example, you don’t see Jonathan Sacks calling for all Jews in Britain to start beheading people.

          • Guest

            Many do not assimilate, and instead remain in their closed enclaves, venturing out only during the day if they have jobs in the outside world. And they do have their own internal problems. What’s important, though, is that they do not teach their children to hate and to want to kill critics of their religion. There aren’t any no-go areas in Stamford Hill. Every time Hamas shoots rockets into Israel, or yet there’s yet another incident of violence against Jews by Muslims in France, for example, you don’t see Jonathan Sacks calling for all Jews in Britain to start beheading people.

            The intellectually dishonest cultural relativists who are saying that the Birmingham situation is proof that Jewish schools are also dangerous are twisted individuals, and should not be permitted to hold positions of authority until they get their thinking straight.

  • Chingford Man

    Honestly, where do you start with this rubbish from Blunt, a soggy liberal with a safe perch in the Tories?

    Northern Ireland simply isn’t relevant here: there are particular historical reasons why schooling has taken its for there.

    I don’t remember Blunt complaining about the vast quantity of immigration that has already created autonomous Islamic enclaves in our major towns and cities, for which our children and grandchildren may yet hate us. But it’s the stupidity in equating Islamic infiltration of schools with some supposed Christian fundamentalist infiltration. I’ll sum up the difference for Blunt. At worst, the Christian kind might produce Mary Whitehouse types. At worst, the Islamic types might produce lunatics with a love for street decapitation of the Kuffir.

    A side issue is that Christian schooling might be a way to socialise children within a ‘small c’ conservative world view, which you might expect an allegedly Conservative politician to welcome. But, no, Blunt would rather have children inducted by our wonderful liberal-left education system, all geared to churning out Labour voters.

    • HookesLaw

      Yes I guess you would like UKIP to campaign against a gay. Its a plausible strategy, given your demographic.

      • Adam Carter

        Where on earth do you get this from?
        I have read and re-read Chingford Man’s comment and I cannot see even the slightest hint that Blunt is gay.
        Is Blunt gay?
        If he is, surely you are not saying that he should then be immune from criticism of the political positions he takes up. Are you?

        • southerner

          If you are in the slightest bit familiar with this site you will know that Hook is a left wing social democrat in love with Cameron and all that he espouses. Seeing homophobia where none exists is part of the left wing credo.

      • Chingford Man

        Hi there, Hooky Babe, been missing your witty badinage. You’re the one who mentioned Blunt’s sexual orientation not me. Are you obsessed by it?

        When Blunt was in the Ministry of Justice, he was the wettest and softest of liberals on penal policy, like his boss Fatty Clarke. (Exhibit A: his “Churchill Speech” delivered to NACRO on 22 July 2010.) With people like Blunt, what need is there for Labour?

  • Rhoda Klapp8

    On the one hand, freedom of association. If you don’t want to deal with society or any part of it, that should be your right. If you are part of some Exclusive Brethren reject native values and feel entitled to do so.sort of sect, well, that’s your right, and you may educate your children thusly. Not with public support except maybe in some sort of voucher form.

    If you are part of a large minority with an alien culture at odds with the majority way of doing things involving your own set of laws which you consider to override secular law, that is a problem for your host society. All without being extremist or violent or even unreasonable by your own lights.

    It is a distraction to conflate a problem with some cultures as applying to any faith in the education arena particularly. The problem is the large minority who reject native values and feel entitled to do so. To deal with this problem by shifting the subject to some abstruse argument about what other faiths MIGHT do with their schools is disingenuous. It is deception, and we have rumbled it.

    • The_Missing_Think

      “If you don’t want to deal with society or any part of it, that should be your right.”
      _____

      Depends on what your rhetoric and job are.

      You know a lot of these public ‘melting pot’ finger waggers, live on very isolated, high security farms, so that they don’t have one single neighbour? That’s how much they truly reject, the melting pot society, they say they adore.

      I cannot see it as honest and good, to publicly ram something loudly and forcefully, that you vehemently oppose on a private and personal level.

  • HookesLaw

    The problem in Birmingham was not with faith schools. Mr Blunt is missing the point.

  • @PhilKean1

    .
    Ex deputy head boy : – “EU membership and unlimited immigration lets IN the extremists that our weak, appeasing, Liberal-left, professional political class ALLOW to take over our schools ! “
    .

    • perdix

      Said an EU-obsessive!

  • Ron Todd

    The idea of free schools is basically sound; there needs to be a robust procedure to control who is allowed to run them.

    • Alexsandr

      there should be regulations on what governers can and cant do. there should be laws banning the segregation of children on any grounds (except when privacy is required for changing and for toilets). There should be a course for governers which they must have passed with in 1 year of becoming a governor or else they cease to be a governor -same as for parish clerks.

  • DaveTheRave

    The bottom line, surely, is that your child’s education shouldn’t be a lottery.
    You want – everyone wants – a good primary and secondary school close to their home.
    In all this ‘choice’, or ‘freedom’ of free schools, academies etc, sometimes I think we have simply lost the plot.

    • Tony_E

      But when you remove choice, you hand huge power to the state, the teaching profession and its unions, and the local authorities. It has been proven that that is an equally inequitable solution for huge numbers of children who have been poorly educated in institutions held up by an equally failed ideology as any religion.

  • Adam Carter

    Why do you talk about ‘extremism’ ? All the MSM do it.
    But there is nothing wrong with extremism; Barry Goldwater had something to say about it 50 years ago.
    Extremism in the defence of liberty is no vice.
    You are abusing and stealing the language. The problem is not extremism; the problem is Islam.
    What problems would the be if there was an upsurge of extremism among the Jains?
    To paraphrase Sam Harris: the problem with Islamic fundamentalism is the problem of the fundamentals of Islam. It is an oppressive belief system that asserts its own superiority and denies equality to non-adherents.
    You know this; we all know this.
    Stop abusing language; stop talking just about ‘extremism’.

    • you_kid

      Been to my first ever Muslim funeral yesterday.
      They plant the body there and then, unlike us.
      What happened to *us*? Why did *we* change?
      Is that custom no longer environmentally friendly enough
      in Green Gove’s Britain?

      • Holly

        ‘We’ did not change, we got silenced….
        BIG difference.

        • you_kid

          *We* did not change?
          Why do we no longer dig a hole and put the box in a hole and then fill the hole by spading sand into the hole, Holly?

          11 punters appear to like your comment, now tell me – why did *we* change …

          • Colonel Mustard

            We still do. I attended one a fortnight ago.

            It’s ‘hole’ by the way. Spelling is important if you are to maintain your inflated sense of cleverness.

            • you_kid

              I corrected that THREE hours ago – how come you cannot see that an hour later?

              Ah, so we too dig a “Whole” 😉 for our deceased. Funny how the basics are all the same then …

              • Colonel Mustard

                And I made my comment THREE hours ago when it was written as ‘whole’. If it had been correct then I would not have needed to mention it.

                • you_kid

                  er … er… funny how the basics in life remain all the same.

          • Jimmy R

            What in Britain, precisely, are we supposed to have changed from?

      • Alexsandr

        how do they manage to get the body certified, the death registered and a crematorium slot booked in under 2 weeks? Or do they not follow the law in this regard?

        • Generian

          They don’t burn, it’s not haram.

          • Alexsandr

            still need registered before you can inter. That can take a few days cos you need doctor to make death cert before you can register. and if there is an inquest or the coroner is involved…

    • Shazza

      It is time for all of us, politicians and our so called ‘leaders’ to have a grown up talk about Islam, not just Islamic extremism and the euphemistic, sanitising term ‘Islamism’.

      We need to decide if it is in the interests of the greater non-moslem population to keep on allowing this primitive, 7th century ideology a place in our now socially divided population.

      It is needed to made very, very clear to moslems, that unless their so called ‘moderates’ stand up and begin to reform and repeal the laws regarding apostasy, treatment of women etc. then this ideology needs to be banished from this Kingdom so that we can progress with our 21st century civilisation, a far superior civilisation from that even espoused by ‘moderate’ Islam.

      It is time to put up or shut up.

      • telemachus

        Look son
        Your supposition is just so wide of the mark
        Most Mosques in the UK preach modern Islam as in Turkey
        You make the mistake of tarring them all according to a few apparent Zealots who use Islam and probably do not even believe in God

        • Colonel Mustard

          I suggest you read the article by Innes Bowen in this week’s Spectator. It’s called “Who runs our mosques”. It’s about the UK not Turkey.

        • Fergus Pickering

          How do you know what they preach. Are you a fluent speaker of Arabic? Do you make it your life work to tour mosques? Wasn’t there a Channel 4 documentary about this?

          • telemachus

            Indeed Fergus
            One of the problems with documentaries is that they are all written and filmed from an angle
            And that angle is almost always politically hostile
            The vast majority of Muslims I know are no different in attitude and social philosophy to my Christian friends

            • foxoles

              The plural of anecdote is not data. It’s not all about *you*.

              • telemachus

                Even xenophobes talk from their own perspective

            • Fergus Pickering

              Vast? Do you know a vast number of muslims? How is that?

              • telemachus

                Over my working life to date I have had meaningful and fruitful relationships with many many of all creeds and races
                They are all human beings with things to contribute
                You should celebrate diversity

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You should celebrate the diversity of politics you ego-maniac.

                • grammarschoolman

                  You work? I thought you were a Labour supporter? Don’t you live off benefits like the rest of them?

                • Fergus Pickering

                  No I should not. Murderers, rapists, abusers of women, terrorists. How diverse is that!

                • telemachus

                  As always Fergus you are opaque
                  I assume you refer to the standard Anglo Saxon football crowd

            • Colonel Mustard

              Pathetic.

            • CharlietheChump

              How many is that? 2? 3? You have no clue.

        • CharlietheChump

          You clearly know nothing of Turkish Islam. This does not surprise us as you are wrong about everything else.

      • Gary Wintle

        Religious schools should not be funded by the taxpayer.

    • HookesLaw

      The problem with extremism is when two extremists collide. How do you work that one out.

      Do you really have to be extremist to opose another extremist?

      • Holly

        Sadly, it is beginning to appear so.

        • HookesLaw

          I think you and the author quoting Goldwater are confusing ‘determined’ with ‘extremism’. This is of course and no pun intended quite fundamental to the issue of confronting extremists.

          And of course it is rubbish as the other commentator says that conservatives are extremists. Conservatives have always evolved with the times.

          • southerner

            “Conservatives have always evolved with the times.” How would you know you socialist loon?

      • Smithersjones2013

        I’d have thought you would have known the answer to that given that according to Thesaurus.com Tories ARE extremists (check under ‘diehard’!

        http://thesaurus.com/browse/extremist

    • Holly

      You’re not meant to say stuff like that, never mind know about it.
      You will be called nasty names, by those who think Islam is a ‘race’.

      • Andy

        It’s ok Telemachus has his name on his ‘little list’.

    • telemachus

      Listen to Blunt you Islamophobe
      It could be a religious fundamentalist Jewish School
      Gove is the problem
      He must be destroyed

      • Tony_E

        It could be. But of course, it isn’t. And it never really has been has it?

        Gove is not the problem – you and your fellow travellers are and always have been, with your own fundamentalist belief system, that the state must control everything so that all can be equal and utopia can be settled upon the land.

        There is little difference between your cry of ‘Islamaphobe’ and Islams’ cry of ‘Apostate’.

        • telemachus

          No
          We mete out to all in equal measure
          The outpouring of hatred to the Muslim community week on week is driving reasonable Muslims into the arms of the Radical Imans
          Desist

          • Tom Allalone

            In other words criticism of intolerance should be banned in case it makes them more intolerant. Call us violent and we will kill you.

            • telemachus

              It is the mode of the criticism and the vitriol
              We are talking about children
              We should be more gentle

              • Tom Allalone

                I seem to remember talking about children was something you wished to avoid in the aftermath of the grooming gang trials

              • Colonel Mustard

                Says the cretin who asserts that “hard left extremism” in necessary for the good of the majority. Pol Pot had similar ideas.

            • Fergus Pickering

              Sorry, Tom. You said it first.

          • Tony_E

            Who gives you the right to ‘Mete out to all’ – we were born free Englishmen, with the right to decide our own fate with as little government interference as is possible for the safety of all.

            The outpouring of ‘Hate’ is as nothing to the outpouring of hate on the streets of Britain when Salman Rushdie published his book ‘The Satanic Rites’.

            • telemachus

              You mean that crazy self aggrandising author who deliberately set out to offend and then cost Special Branch £1.35 million to protect

              • Fergus Pickering

                Yeah. That’s the guy. He said what he thought and was condemned to death for it.

                • telemachus

                  Deliberately offending cannot be equated with ‘said what he thought’

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Of course it can. He thought the bastards ought to be offended. And so do I.

                • telemachus

                  So you missed your equality and diversity training this year
                  What about respect?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  When you start respecting diversity in politics and the fact that people are entitled to venture opinions that differ from yours without being tagged, then you can preach about respect.

                  You ghastly hypocrite.

                • telemachus

                  Talk to me not about hypocrisy
                  No one can assess whether or not you are hypocritical
                  You have no views
                  No opinions
                  No creed
                  You troll up and down the threads looking for folks to attack
                  You stalk poor .telemachus and Mynydd
                  Instead of negativity why not consider a positive line and nailing your colours to the mast

                • Colonel Mustard

                  I’m not really interested in your extremist opinions or lies about me. You are the one doing the stalking as my counsel’s carefully documented records will evidence as needs be. You are the reason they advised me to make my comments private, because you have the habit of going into the record to cut and paste selected quotes in a way that misrepresents and defames their authors.

                  I don’t have an agenda here, telemachus. You do, as you have told us many times. You are the one trolling up and down the threads tagging the comments of anyone whose “creed” appears to disagree with yours and you have told us as much that you consider that your duty. You are the control freak who wants dominion over every comment thread, not I. A simple review of the evidence shows your rose everywhere.

                  And if you check the record you will find Mynydd more often tags my comments than the other way around. Very selectively too, because often only my comments are tagged when their content is not much different to many others.

                  So back off.

                • jack mustard

                  And if you check the record you will see that for this thread alone TM has posted 15 comments – only one is addressed directly to you; you have posted 10 comments, all but one of them addressed directly to TM. This is pretty typical. Making your comments “private” has certainly served to conceal a stalkerish tendency – only it ain’t TM that’s the guily party….

                • Colonel Mustard

                  A misrepresentation.

                  On the ‘front page’ articles here telemachus has made 20 comments in 6 other threads, all of them tagged to other peoples comments and all of them tagging the top comment (one of them being mine). In those other threads I have not commented on his comments at all.

                  My comments may be private but their record exists and the record (including telemachus’ tagging habits) speaks for itself – as does your intervention here.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Respect has to be earned. It doesn’t come in a package.

                • grammarschoolman

                  For suicide bombers?

                • Tony_E

                  And this is the moral equivalence that should be condemned by all right thinking people – that the right to offend is somehow equivalent to the right to murder.

                  If Telemachus is somehow representative of the ‘Left’ in this country, then his appeasement of what can only be referred to as religiously motivated murder should serve as a warning to all who read it.

                  Being a free born Englishman should give me the right to say just about anything short of incitement to violence, without fear of violent retribution. That the left no longer holds free speech as a cornerstone of English freedom should be seen as a dark precursor of what would be to come under continual leftist state rule.

          • Fergus Pickering

            In other words, be nice to them or they will kil you. Which is what we were told by people like you re Adolf Hitler and his gang.

          • grammarschoolman

            As if. Far too little criticism is made about Islam because people know that even the tiniest thing will result in death threats and physical attacks. Look at Rushdie, look at Theo van Gogh, look at the Danish cartoonist. Islam is a violent, nasty religion that destroys anyone brave enough to oppose it, which means that hardly anyone ever does. People like you are apologists for terrorism and hatred.

        • GraveDave

          Gove isn’t the solution either.

      • ButcombeMan

        “Destroyed”?

        And there we have it, hard left extremism in action. Ugly and vicious.

        • telemachus

          Sometimes hard left extremism is necessary for the good of the majority

          • Generian

            Numbers of people that communism killed:
            USSR — 20 million
            China — 65 million
            Vietnam — 1 million
            North Korea — 2 million
            Cambodia — 2 million
            Eastern Europe — 1 million
            Latin America — 150,000
            Africa — 1.7 million
            Afghanistan — 1.5 million
            Communist movements, parties not in power — 10,000

          • Colonel Mustard

            And there it is. A statement that might have come from the mouth of Himmler.

            “You Einsatztruppen are called upon to fulfill a repulsive duty. But you are soldiers who have to carry out every order unconditionally. You have a responsibility before God and Hitler for everything that is happening. I myself hate this bloody business and I have been moved to the depths of my soul. But I am obeying the highest law by doing my duty. Man must defend himself against bedbugs and rats– against vermin.”

            “Public need before private greed…. So important and meaningful is this phrase that Jesus Christ placed it in the center of his religious teaching. However, since Christ was not a politician, since his Reich was not of this world, he put the calling into other words. He taught: love your neighbors as yourself! National Socialism is therefore nothing new, nothing that a person after much consideration would not come upon as the solution to the economic plight of the Germans.”

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Absolutely disgusting.

          • foxoles

            Good for deluded fanatics, like you, you mean.

            • telemachus

              Left to themselves all societies produce and the tend to defer to and venerate the strong
              It is the mark of civilisation that we take care of the weak

              • Holly

                Problem is folk who think like you do, also tend to ‘weaken’ them first, in order for them to become so dependent on you for their very survival…..Then you just leave them to rot.
                So underhandedly un-civilised it make me want to puke.

              • Jimmy R

                To care for the weak has not, and never has had, any connection with deference to, or veneration of, the strong. In fact in most societies, unless challenged and prevented, it is normally the strong who have a tendency to prey on the weak, especially in Marxist and Maoist Societies where opposition to the Party is exterminated and the strong have nothing to restrict their excesses.

                • telemachus

                  The Party works on behalf of and in the interests of the weak and in other societies the disadvantaged
                  It is a sign of caring to ensure that those who oppose this work are negated

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Truly repulsive and chilling. I’m surprised the Labour party lets you out. They ought to throw you out instead.

                • Jimmy R

                  The Party works on behalf of those at the top who will go to any lengths to keep power and will trample underfoot those who it finds ‘inconvenient’ and those amongst the weak who refuse to bow down are made to disappear, permanently, into ‘Special Re-education Camps to be worked to death. Those who are prominent or have high visibility are subjected to special treatment prior to being subjected to Show Trials for their ‘confessions’ to be heard prior to execution. Others are simply declared ‘insane’ and removed to Special ‘Institutions’ where they are confined away from public view and contact.

        • Donafugata

          Absolutely, I have flagged Tele, this amounts to hate speech and clearly, he has now become one of the Islamic fanatics.

      • whs1954

        But it isn’t, is it? There are no Jewish or Christian free schools (or Christian schools under local authority control) where they teach that non-believers are pigs and dogs, or that women are whores, or that boys and girls should sit separately. All these issues have only cropped up in Islamic schools, haven’t they? The problem is not religious schools but Muslim schools. Oh dear, Islamophobia, Islamophobia!

        • telemachus

          I believe you should substantiate those gross slurs
          Sometimes I wonder about the sanity of my fellow countymen

          • Generian

            The ones at home in Pakistan?

          • Colonel Mustard

            You should probably worry more about your own sanity.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            I think it is your sanity that is the issue. Most people are just expressing an opinion. Something you seem to hate whenever it does not coincide with your own.

        • Gary Wintle

          All religions encourage segregation, by their very nature, they confer a gang mentality; “us” and “them”. According to your logic, there should be no problems with schools in Northern Ireland (and Ireland and Scotland), yet Protestant/Catholic and other nutty sectarianism and abuse is rampant in those “Christian” schools.

    • eclair

      Hmm. I was at school taught by extremist nuns who frankly lied, who beat us occasionally and traumatised some. I think religion is for other places than schools. The Jesuits knew all about brain washing kids with religion. Time it stopped.

      • Jimmy R

        Yes, the should be inducted into the State Education to be indoctrinated in the religion of Stateism instead.

        • eclair

          You must be a friend of Tellymachus

          • Jimmy R

            Definitely not, that version of education is my vision of State Enforced Brainwashing, Telemachus’ vision of Utopia is the nightmare that wakes me up screaming in the middle of the night thinking I am already in a dark, cold, damp cell somewhere in the bowels of the Big Lubyanka.

    • eclair

      But it is a complicated catch 22 situation. I tolerate you despite disagreeing with you so you abuse my tolerance and also my preferences because you know that my tolerance is based on more than just an idea, its a culture. .You tolerate me as long as I dont stop you practicing behaviour I find horrific.
      Its only possible to practice tolerance in a highly sophisticated society but we dont have that and I can assure you that the only way people will rub along together is if neither party find the other totally intolerable or if one has a hold over the other either financially but more usually with violence.
      Im certainly not advocating violence at all especially given that we have law here regarding the freedom of the individual, so perhaps we should enforce those laws and make it clear to immigrants that without respect for the law they will be sent home. Its about all we have the power to do. I dont imagine for a minute that this will be either a peaceful or a simple solution.
      Most cultures are extreme in their views when faced with the threat of dissolution. We are no different. You only have to read the views on here to understand that. If only it was as simple as some people seem to think.

    • CharlietheChump

      I was wound up and ready to make just this point. Islam is Islam, if it doesn’t fit with the elites’ “multicultural” view then tough. We have to accept that a considerable element of our population does not agree with the historical basis for our liberal democracy.

      So Cameron has to face up to this directly, stop talking about extremism as a eumphemism for Islam and take this issue on directly.

      Islam is not compatible with British culture, democracy and world view.

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