Coffee House

David Cameron acknowledges that some Tory MPs want to leave the EU

11 June 2014

6:54 PM

11 June 2014

6:54 PM

David Cameron addressed the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers earlier this evening. The meeting was upbeat because of the introduction of the winner of Newark by-election Robert Jenrick and brief because Cameron had to go off and see the Queen.

Cameron only took a handful of questions but all touched on Europe. Cameron defended opting back into the European Arrest Warrant, saying it was part of being touch on terrorism. He also said that he knew that there were those ‘in this room’ who wanted to leave the EU altogether but the only way you’ll get an In Out vote is with a Tory government.

Unsurprisingly, Cameron aimed plenty of fire at Miliband and Labour. He argued that while the Tories had a message for those voters who had gone off to Ukip, Labour didn’t. He also emphasised that he had a strong, competent team behind him—name checking Osborne, Hague, May and Gove’s departments. By contrast, he joked, all Miliband had behind him was Balls. Twenty years after Michael Heseltine first told a version of this joke the Tories still find it funny.

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  • jamesbarn

    On the 1st November 2014 the right of Parliament to legislate over us in 43 areas, the important ones, will be removed and be made subject to approval. They call it QMV, Qualified Majority Voting.
    Each member State will lose it right of Veto over these areas, so Cameron’s idea of negotiation to recover any areas goes out the window at the same time.
    The following areas of competence will switch from requiring unanimous approval of all member states to qualified majority voting only:
    Initiatives of the High Representative for Foreign Affairs – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Administrative co-operation – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Asylum – Nice: QMV; Lisbon: QMV
    Border controls – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Citizens’ initiative regulations – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Civil protection – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Committee of the Regions – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Common defence policy – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Crime prevention incentives – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Criminal judicial co-operation – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Criminal law – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Culture – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Diplomatic & Consular protection – Nice: Unanimity Lisbon: QMV
    Economic & Social Committee – Nice: QMV Lisbon: QMV
    Emergency international aid – Nice: Unanimity Lisbon: QMV
    Energy – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    EU budget – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Eurojust – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    European Central Bank – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    European Court of Justice – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Europol – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Eurozone external representation – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Foreign Affairs High Representative election – Lisbon: QMV
    Freedom of movement for workers – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Freedom to establish a business – Nice: Unanimity Lisbon QMV
    Freedom, security, justice, co-operation & evaluation – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Funding the Common Foreign & Security Policy – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    General economic interest services – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Humanitarian aid – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Immigration – Nice: QMV; Lisbon: QMV
    Intellectual property – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Organisation of the Council of the EU – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Police co-operation – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    President of the European Council election – Lisbon: QMV
    Response to natural disasters & terrorism – Lisbon: QMV
    Rules concerning the Armaments Agency – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Self-employment access rights – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Social Security Unanimity – Nice: QMV; Lisbon: QMV
    Space – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Sport – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Structural & Cohension Funds – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Tourism – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Transport – Nice: Unanimity; Lisbon: QMV
    Withdrawal of a member state – Lisbon: QMV
    A brief review of the Treaties confirms the Transitional arrangements which allow, only on specific votes, for the Nice Treaty Provisions to apply from 1st November 2014 until March 2017, hence I imagine PM David Cameron’s determination to delay our referendum beyond that date, tying Britain for ever within the non-democratic, totalitarian and now clearly despotic EU.
    For your reference, if anyone interested in the Treaty Articles behind this change, here is the legal bit.…voting-qmv.html
    Now you can see why voting UKIP is vital
    Withdrawal of a member state – Lisbon: QMV this one means that the results of a referendum will be ignored and that is why Cameron is promising one, he knows it is meaningless

  • Wilful Brown

    The European Arrest Warrant is a disgrace and the idea that it is used to fight terrorism is utter hogwash. A friend of mine was subject to one, because the German authorities claimed he owed some income tax from many years ago. The English authorities were powerless to help him, regardless of the absence of any evidence to back up the German claim. He only managed to get the warrant revoked, by taking on an expensive German lawyer who was able to convince a German judge that the warrant was inadmissible. Totally shameful, that our English Common Law was unable to protect him. Disgusting!!!!

  • Denis_Cooper

    “Cameron defended opting back into the European Arrest Warrant, saying it was part of being touch on terrorism.”

    So how many of his innocent constituents would he be prepared to see carted off to languish in a foreign prison, without any need for prima facie evidence of their guilt to be laid before a British court, as part of being tough on terrorism?

    Would he object if he himself was carted off to languish in a foreign prison as part of being tough on terrorism?

    Or does he assume that what would apply to others would not apply to him?

    • Colonel Mustard

      From the Coalition Agreement on Europe:-

      “We will approach forthcoming legislation in the area of criminal justice on a case-by-case basis, with a view to maximising our country’s security, protecting Britain’s civil liberties and preserving the integrity of our criminal justice system. Britain will not participate in the establishment of any European Public Prosecutor.”

      Watch this space. I believe that in regard to previous laws and rights the activities of our current government in surrendering the rights of accused and arrested persons to Europe is illegal.


      “…there has been the assumption that central government can only change people’s behaviour through rules and regulations. Our government will be a much smarter one, shunning the bureaucratic levers of the past and finding intelligent ways to encourage, support and enable people to make better choices for themselves.”

      “We will be strong in defence of freedom. The Government believes that the British state has become too authoritarian, and that over the past decade it has abused and eroded fundamental human freedoms and historic civil liberties. We need to restore the rights of individuals in the face of encroaching state power, in keeping with Britain’s tradition of freedom and fairness.”

      “We will establish a Commission to investigate the creation of a British Bill of Rights that incorporates and builds on all our obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights, ensures that these rights continue to be enshrined in British law, and protects and extends British liberties. We will seek to promote a better understanding of the true scope of these obligations and liberties.”

      • We will restore rights to non-violent protest.

      • We will review libel laws to protect freedom of speech.

      • We will introduce safeguards against the misuse of anti-terrorism legislation.

      • We will further regulate CCTV. • We will end the storage of internet and email records without good reason.

      • We will introduce a new mechanism to prevent the proliferation of unnecessary new criminal offences.

      Liars. Spoonface is the heir to Big Nanny never mind Blair.

      • telemachus

        The free movement of jihadists from Syria to the UK tells you all you need to know about why we need these state powers
        The only reason we had no repeat of 7/7 despite daily provocation from The Mail and similar is the vigilant watchfulness of GCHQ, MI6, MI6 and the rest of our security apparatus
        I prefer that my children and grandchildren grow up in safety rather than listen to a namby pamby liberal agenda from right wingers who should in truth know better
        In your own way you are more dangerous than Gove

        • Wessex Man

          and you, you slimy liar, if a labour alternative to the Tory party

          show why everone should vote UKip.

        • Colonel Mustard

          I prefer that you desist from targeting my comments.

  • Blindsideflanker

    Cameron said the Conservatives had a message for UKIP voters, and what would that be?

    Vote Cameron Conservative and get more metropolitan cr&p.

    Vote Cameron Conservative and have more promises ratted on?

    Vote Cameron Conservative and get some more personal abuse?

  • Lady Magdalene

    “He argued that while the Tories had a message for those voters who had gone off to Ukip, Labour didn’t”
    Yes, the Tories have a message for UKIP. We’re:
    Closet racists
    Little Englanders
    I think that covers them all.
    We’ve got the message Dave. You despise us …. but not as much as WE despise you and your Quisling Party.

    • Blindsideflanker

      Not forgetting Tory Taliban.

      • Denis_Cooper

        Or “anti-EU Taliban”, as in:

        “The British Conservatives in the European Parliament have
        finalised the nomination of their candidate for the presidency
        of the European Parliament: a former Liberal Democrat, now
        Tory MEP who has mocked and insulted eurosceptics.

        Sajjad Karim, a Lancashire-born Muslim of Pakistani descent,
        has previously denigrated eurosceptics by repeatedly calling
        them “anti-EU Taliban.””

        (Which I suppose makes them terrorists, who could be dealt
        with through the EU Arrest Warrant as part of being tough on terrorism?)

        • Blindsideflanker

          When ever you scratch beneath the surface of Cameron’s fine words you find something pretty unpleasant in his actions.

      • Holly

        I dislike both….Unless, one is mashed with carrots.
        Must admit to knowing a bit more about turnips though, and Considering which of the two is claimed to be the bigger threat, I would prefer the turnip.

    • Blindsideflanker

      Not forgetting ‘Sour faced little Englanders’ .

  • Lady Magdalene

    Some do – but not enough. And they continue to support a Party that has a policy of remaining a member and a PM who has decreed that he will NEVER under any circumstances advocate leaving.
    So those few who do want OUT of the EU should do the honourable thing and leave the Conservative Party. If they can’t bring themselves to support UKIP, they should at the very least become Independent MPs.
    As for the EAW: this has nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with building an EU-wide police force and EU legal system. Interpol has worked for decades; extradition treaties have existed for centuries.
    The people who are being dragged out of their houses and shipped off to foreign jail whilst the local judiciary and police concoct a case against them are mostly accused of relatively minor crimes that have no terrorist connection.
    Cameron is destroying Habeas Corpus and the rights which the English/British have had since Magna Carta. He is a despicable piece of sh!t.

  • Smithersjones2013

    He also said that he knew that there were those ‘in this room’ who
    wanted to leave the EU altogether but the only way you’ll get an In Out
    vote is with a Tory government.

    But not an Out vote in a Government led by David Cameron. So how good of him to remind people they need to get rid of him…..

    PS And we know what message Cameron has for UKIP supporters. He thinks they are fruitcakes and closet racists who are rather odd. He’s never retracted it or apologised for it. Funny how Labour managed not to provide such message….

  • @PhilKean1

    Opting back into the European Arrest Warrant –

    The warrant, like the American equivalent, gives the EU the power to extraordinarily rend UK nationals without the safeguards Britain’s crime agencies are bound to uphold.

    But not only the “Arrest Warrant”. I understand he wants to opt back into a further 28 measures which have the effect of deepening Britain’s involvement in European political and economic union.

    The sooner David Cameron is removed from office, the better !

    • HookesLaw

      Your linkage of the European arrest warrant with secret extraordinary rendition by the CIA is as we might expect from you a totally bogus nutjob fantasy.
      A EAW can only be issued for a prosecution not an investgation. It cannot be used to enforce a custodial sentence. As such it would be useless to the CIA and its highly trained team of waterboarders.
      There are many reasons why a EAW can be refused, plus co editions that can be imposed – something the CIA might find shocking. Indeed they would be also upset to learn you cannot try somebody in their absence.
      EAW rules also take into account those dreaded ‘human rights’. 20 states put words into their legislation referring to the ECHR and the others took the view that the ECHR covered it anyway. That would just about have sealed it for the CIA I guess.

      • MirthaTidville

        You really are mixed up tonight. The EAW, on its own, allows British citizens to be `deported` to another EU country, without any evidence being put in front of British Judiciary to ascertain the strength of the case. Would you want to be whisked away to be tried in third world EU countries like Bulgaria or Greece?? Hooky neither would I and thats why the EAW is a very bad idea…How you managed to bring the CIA into it I dont know

      • Tony_E

        Your linkage of the European arrest warrant with secret extraordinary
        rendition by the CIA is as we might expect from you a totally bogus
        nutjob fantasy

        If only that were true.

        Across the EU we don’t have an equal justice system. I wouldn’t want to stand trial in a Portugese court, or a Bulgarian one either. But unfortunately the EU arrest warrant gives those states and others like them the right to simply request my presence and I shall be arrested in my own country and rendered unto them. No evidence is required of a case, no threshold of reasonable conviction.

        The US agreement is no better, the US system is hideously expensive. All the USA has to do to ruin an individual both here and there is to have them rendered to a US federal pen. They lose their assets here because it will take so long to try them and cost so much that they cannot hope to have a life to come back to. And they have little chance in the US justice system which lacks some checks and balances that we have long had (i.e. a totally independent high judiciary and prosecution service).

        I was a free born Englishman. Now I am the legally the property of foreign governments at their request.

    • fathomwest

      I agree. The fact that Cameron did not push the Referendum Bill into the Queen’s Speech and is using a backbencher to raise the debate is proof, in my eyes, that he is luke warm on a referendum and certainly leaving the EU.
      This man will tie the Country far deeper, whilst conning the people with his fight to democratise the EU. Another snake oil salesman.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    …slow day, lad?

  • Conway

    Cameron defended opting back into the European Arrest Warrant, saying it was part of being touch (sic) on terrorism” Since the introduction of the EAW is at the expense of habeas corpus it is a price too steep to pay. “People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both” (Benjamin Franklin).

    • Smithersjones2013

      Yeah Cameron never really has ‘done’ Justice just like he’s never really ‘done’ Democracy. He seems to treat both as political fashion accessories………..

      • Lady Magdalene

        He’s never really done anything has he …. just politics and PR and he’s not very good at them either.

  • MirthaTidville

    He`s always known some of his MP`s want to leave Europe but he sees his role as making damn sure that they dont…

    • Conway

      And the rest of us.

    • Kitty MLB

      This is what I meant by wolves baying for blood.
      We will be having a referendum and its not upto politicians
      to take us out or leave us in. Its upto the electorate.

    • Tony_E

      He’s skewered though. He has to promise the referendum to even hope for a majority. He cannot form a coalition with the LIb Dems unless they agree to the referendum, the Cons would depose him within days.

      Any outcome that sees Cameron as PM and we will get the referendum.

      The question is – How do we win it?

      • Lady Magdalene

        Not necessarily: all he has to do is resign or be sacked and the “promise” becomes null and void.