Coffee House

Cameron defeated as Juncker nominated for European Commission President

27 June 2014

4:38 PM

27 June 2014

4:38 PM

The European Council has nominated Jean-Claude Juncker to be the next president of the European Commission despite David Cameron’s staunch opposition. In the vote that Cameron forced on the appointment, he was defeated 26-2 with only the Hungarians joining the British in opposing the former Luxembourg PM.

Junkcer’s appointment casts fresh doubt on whether Cameron will be able to renegotiate a new EU deal for Britain and whether this country will stay in the EU. In the coming weeks, we will have to watch and see whether other EU leaders try and come up with some kind of compensation package for Britain.

When Cameron first came out in opposition to Juncker, he was pretty confident of success. He believed—with some reason—that Angela Merkel, and other powerful EU leaders, were going to join him in opposing Juncker and preserving the right of the European Council to nominate the president of the European Commission. Merkel, though, changed her mind under domestic media and political pressure—much to Downing Street’s annoyance. Cameron now finds himself having to deal with a Commission President who he has opposed in the most direct terms.

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Show comments
  • Leto مؤدّب

    Here is what Hungarian PM Orbán said about his voting ‘no’ to Juncker:

  • fathomwest

    I am still of the view that Cameron wants to keep us in the EU. With this alleged conciliatory talk coming from the two faced Swedes and Germans, is this whole thing a charade cooked up on that rowing boat, resulting in some victory (small v) for Cameron to present and, like Wilson, con the people?
    My answer, if the Conservative backbenchers had some balls, which they do not, would be to take on Merkel by kicking out Cameron and electing Mrs May. Goodness that would be a battle which we would have a far greater chance of winning.

  • arnoldo87

    Cameron’s performance in the EU arena has, not for the first time, enhanced his chances of a 2015 election victory. Despite the fact that he was defeated in the vote and his failure to hold Merkel to her word, he has come over as a politician of conviction and integrity who communicated a clear message on the problems we face with Europe as it is currently constituted.

    Any floating voter comparing Cameron’s efforts with Miliband’s simplistic naysaying on Europe and Coulson this week would easily decide which is the preferable statesman and Prime Minister.

  • Greenslime

    Merkel couldn’t block Juncker because that would have almost certainly led to one of her main political opponents getting the job instead. Whatever anyone says, Germany is the most important member of the EU and, because of its past history and national proclivity to dominate, the most important to keep locked into the democratic European project. That is why everyone got behind her, I think.

    Cameron couldn’t alter his stance to Juncker because he couldn’t. Politically, he had to stay firm regardless of how the BBC would spin this on behalf of Labour as a major loss. In the longer run, the debacle of the last few days and weeks may help his negotiations because it has made clear to everyone that without major changes the UK is highly likely to exit.

    Despite all the rhetoric, most European leaders realise that the EU will be a lesser beast without the UK as a member. In their hearts they really know that despite their depiction of this as a selfish act on the part of the UK, they will all benefit by recovering national sovereignty.

    This is not about the UK bullying everyone else. It is about us as a nation wishing to maintain our own sovereignty. Most of the rest of Europe is governed differently and their legal systems are rigid and bureaucratic, mostly based on the Napoleonic Code which looks to the physiocratic economic theory for much of its genesis. That’s lovely for them and if they want to keep it that way, great. But our laws and codes come from a different place, built up over centuries and, so far as I am concerned, I would like to see it stay that way.

    Anything which we ultimately manage to negotiate should not be a special situation for us but a return of decision making to a place much closer to the people for whom the decisions are taken – for everyone. Anything else is just a dictatorship of the bureaucracy which, in the end, we will all rue.

    Cooperation yes. Integration and subsumation no. The last few days have put into stark relief the importance of standing up to the natural dictatorial instincts of many European politicians, no matter how much John Humphrys tries to paint this as a humiliating loss.

    • Blindsideflanker

      ” the most important to keep locked into the democratic European project. That is why everyone got behind her, I think.”

      I think you are wrong. I don’t believe there is any fear that Germany would leave the EU. In falling into line with Germany these countries have voted themselves to become vassal states of Germany. They bent their knee to German power and they will come to regret that.

  • DaveTheRave

    Could not believe news coverage this morning (Saturday), very bias against Cameron, only showing reaction of pro-Europeans in streets. What happened to showing both sides?
    I know which I choose.

    • Blindsideflanker

      I saw it as the British media revelling in some more self loathing of our country. They hang around at the doors of these venues pleading with foreign politicians to bad mouth our country.

  • Pier66

    Dear Uruguay President,
    This email to suggest you to take a very important decision
    get an alliance with The FA and other important Football Association to go out from this Fifa Mafia.
    Luis Suarez maybe had mistake all right, but the punishment
    Is huge unfair and about strange hate against him , Uruguay and Liverpool, so you could try legal action , as Liverpool as well… But I think all the situation go BEYOND that action, will not be enough.We would like to watch a new World Cup without Blatter Platini and Beckenbauer without all those mafiosi Cupola organisation that sell the world cup to Quatar for gas and petrol, that there are referee corrupt against some
    Federation like England ( hand of god , lampard goal not given, )it’s time TO BREAK UP CHANGE RISTART PUT COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY THAT BLATTER PLATINI AND THE KAISER FRAN DON WANT YOU KNOW WHY ?
    I think my opinion is very appreciate in more the half football world now it’s up to you organisation
    Would you Stay in a mafia organisation ? No!
    Walk away with England and other to build a new one!
    Kind Regards
    Pier Paolo Grottesi

  • Tony Quintus

    I cannot understand how the UKIPpers commenting on here are trying to spin this as bad for Cameron. Downing street sowed the seeds of the strategy but a few short days ago, a strategy which Cameron should’ve been following since the day he first mooted renegotiation and a referendum, but better late than never. This “loss” allows Cameron to turn hostile to the EU, which we have already seen in the language used after the vote, he will take the position that unless Britain gets back enough the Tory party will campaign for Brexit. Expect this position to be set in stone after the cabinet reshuffle sends arch Europhile Ken Clark as far away from cabinet as possible.
    Cameron may be a Europhile, but first and formost he is interested in self preservation, and if he needs to speed to UK towards the leaving the EU to stay in number 10 for another 5 years that is exactly what he is going to do.

  • Pootles

    26-2. How like the old East Germany. Almost unanimous, with just a hint of opposition to show how democratic the whole business is. The EU is, without doubt, a dreadful assault on parliamentary democracy. What a bl%%dy mess! It will all end in tears, and, unless there is some real change, in blood.

    • DaveTheRave

      I repeat, I believe we are in as much danger as we were in 1914 and 1939. In both those cases we had the will and the ability to do something about it.
      Now, I fear, we have neither.
      And that’s despite people like me and many of you here speaking up.

  • jamesbarn

    How much lower can we sink

    As Churchill said in 45 “This is our finest hour”
    He was a proper statesman, unlike the present shower
    These sycophantic Europhiles have bought us to our knees
    Now Cameron’s asks Merkle “Can we have some power please”

    I need to go back with a ruse to stem the UKIP flood
    The whole backbench will rise as one baying for my blood
    They want a referendum, not tomorrow but today
    I need to claim a victory to keep them all at bay

    We’ll fill it all with weasel words to let you off the hook
    I know it’s smoke and mirrors but its how we make it look
    You need to help me out here Boss, as PM I must stay
    If I should lose then kiss goodbye to 50 Mill a day

    This UKIP mob have pulled the rug from underneath my feet
    If I can’t claim a victory here I’m staring at defeat
    This Ferage chaps percentage vote is going through the roof
    I just don’t understand it, all he does is tell the truth

    I’ve lied and cheated schemed and stalled and gave a cast iron vow
    The cat alas is out the bag and no one trusts me now
    It’s time for you and Rumpy to step up to the plate
    With false negotiation spin before it gets too late

    Cameron is in an utter panic and will say anything in the hope it might get UKIP supporters to return. Firstly he cannot discriminate against Romanians/Bulgarians so any action he takes MUST apply to ALL immigrants and possibly UK citizens. Failure to do so would be deemed racist. Those from the EU have a legal right to all benefits available to our own citizens. Secondly the Children’s Act would make it illegal not to offer accommodation to families regardless of where they come from. Thirdly and something I am sure he will evade in his next speech is the fact that if he makes social housing unavailable for families he MUST put families up in the private sector for which the tax payer will be funding. Stand by for yet another speech of useless propaganda and phoney sound bites.
    Meanwhile the poulation has grown by 500000 and Cameron will vote to allow yet more impoverished nations join the EU
    UKIP was right all along Junker will tell Cameron to piss off

  • Conway

    Junkcer’s appointment casts fresh doubt on whether Cameron will be able
    to renegotiate a new EU deal for Britain and whether this country will
    stay in the EU.
    ” You mean Juncker'[s appointment shows up once and for all that there will be no renegotiation and we have absolutely no influence in the EU whatsoever. The Emperor has no clothes – what a surprise! Mind you, Cameron will do his level best to keep us in at all costs.

  • Colonel Mustard

    This now leaves Cameron quite a lot of strategic freedom. It will be interesting to see if and how he exploits it. If he’s clever he will start pushing a script where Labour people are continuously and robustly pressed to explain what their stance on Europe will be if they win the election and why they think the British people do not deserve a say.

    • Grey Wolf

      But doesn’t this put Cameron in a very awkward place? He has literally been defining his politics based on his ‘ability’ to negotiate EU reforms. That’s not looking very credible now. Also, its not as if he had a measure of support even if not enough. His line was utterly rejected. I think Dave may be in a sticky spot now. I mean from now what is his line on EU? What can he possibly say?

      • Colonel Mustard

        It depends how courageous and radical he is prepared to be. Fortune favours the bold but I’m not convinced Cameron is bold rather than just impulsive. He also has the ball and chain of Clegg’s Illiberal Undemocrats, although in reality he could just ignore them completely. If they pull out of coalition now it makes no difference but that would free Cameron up.

        What he should do now is to take the fight to Merkel on the European front and to Labour on the home front.

        • Grey Wolf

          He is pro EU himself, that’s instinctive to him. Not much difference b/w him and Clegg on that. The other thing is that Labour / M’band are not going to build their campaign on EU. They will try to dodge the issue as much as they can and be almost jellyfish like on the issue. This issue will be wedge b/w UKIP and the Tories. That will be Cameron’s problem.

        • Blindsideflanker

          Cameron needs a 28 to 0 vote in favour of any treaty changes to get a renegotiation. What chance of that?

          • Colonel Mustard

            That’s if he plays by their rules.

  • Smithersjones2013

    Dontcha just lurve Qualified Majority Voting? Now can anyone explain to me how we will be anymore isolated if we withdraw from the EU?

    Nice one Dave! Nige must be rolling on the floor laughing his freaking socks off! I don’t think Dave could have found a better way to have cocked this up. I’m beginning to think he is a closet secessionist because his behaviour serves nobody else particularly the idiots in the Tory party who actually believe this ‘In Europe and humiliated by Europe’ stuff is actually achievable.

    For goodness sake lets do the bleedin’ obvious and what everyone in Europe expects and invoke article 50 and end this ridiculous farce. This country has always valued self-determination above all else. It will never be whole again until we recover our sovereignty.

    PS Mori Issues Index latest. Immigration now the most important issue 6 points above the economy. The EU now at a nine year high (since Blair promised a referendum) For someone like Dave who didn’t want to spend his premiership talking about Europe he’s not having much success…..

  • roger

    I have always said that renegotiation should carry two red lines and be part of the next Tory manifesto.
    1. Control must be regained of immigration both in numbers and quantity.
    2. Our own democratically elected government must be able to veto laws and regulations emanating from Brussels.
    Today has just confirmed that this can never be achieved within the EU.
    It is therefore imperative that we have a referendum at the earliest opportunity.
    Whether this parliament will provide sufficient support is doubtful but next years general election should be the day we finally regain control of our affairs.

  • Terence Hale

    “Cameron defeated as Juncker nominated for European Commission President”. A lost battle with a war to be won. Give Fr. Merkel enough rope to hang herself.

    • Andy

      We could hold a raffle for the honour of pulling the lever.

    • Blindsideflanker

      No it won’t be Merkel who hung herself today, it is all the toady nations who buckled under to Germany’s wishes. They are no going to lose the Brits who they relied on to make the argument whilst sitting on their hands, they will now have to go and do the dirty work themselves.

  • starfish

    No point waiting any longer
    The direction of travel is clear
    Quite obvious that the rest of the EU does not intend to negotiate (never had any intention IMHO)
    In/out referendum next May at the same time as the general election
    And when the UK votes to leave maybe Merkel etc won’t be so smug

    • DaveTheRave

      I concur with that.

  • beenzrgud

    When it all goes pear shaped they’ll blame Cameron for forcing them to vote for Juncker. I’m already reading stories that Merkel didn’t really want him in the job !

  • smilingvulture

    rubik cube policy

  • alabenn

    The effects of this silly act by the EU will be felt all across Europe at the next EU elections, the slow chipping away by anti EU parties will speed up, whether we are in or out it is a doomed experiment.
    The only thing this country should be working towards is to reduce the effects to ourselves when it crashes and burns, every federation that mainland European countries contrived over the last thousand plus years has ended in disaster or at best bitter recriminations.

    • anncalba

      Modern Europe. Belgium, founded 1839. Italy, 1861. Germany, 1871. Greece, independence from the Ottoman Empire 1822. Czechoslovakia, established 1918, dissolved 1992. Jugoslavia, founded 1918, disintegrated 1992-2003. USSR 1922-1991. Europeans are well used to being ruled by others, and seem to find it difficult to understand that the UK is not keen on this.

  • dado_trunking

    But this is a clear WIN for Cameron surely.
    It appears you are telling us that it is indeed the Council that holds all the power to nominate, not the democratically elected Parliament.
    That is the Cameron position, so he WON today.

    • Denis_Cooper

      Don’t be daft. At the end of their debate broadcast on the BBC Parliament Channel the five Spitzenkandidaten all agreed that the EU Parliament would definitely not vote for anybody other than one of them to become President of the Commission. They could only make that public declaration that it had to be one of them because the EU Parliament has the power to veto anybody else, a power that the Tory traitor Major and the leaders of the other member state governments all agreed to grant to MEPs through the Maastricht Treaty. Then those five lined up behind Juncker as the leader of the largest group, and what has happened today is that the governments of the member states decided that they would not fight the MEPs for the sake of a principle which their predecessors conceded more than two decades ago.

      • dado_trunking

        A very good summary which I would agree with in the sense that I support your statements of fact. What remains the question of course is whether there was any milage in changing that to make it even more democratic. Of course there is is the answer and of course precisely that change will eventually happen.

  • DaveTheRave

    The referendum should be brought forward to as early as possible, but perhaps autumn next year is the most feasible.
    By then Scotland might be heading for independence and would surely vote to go back in to the EU.
    Conversely, should we somehow happen to stay in the EU, why oh why don’t we just ignore the bits we don’t like? What is it about us when someone says ‘jump’ we say ‘how high?’
    Rules is rules only when they apply to you. Let’s be naughty boys and girls on the quiet.

    • Alexsandr

      why not 5th september 2014?

      • DaveTheRave

        Yes, why not?

  • Colin

    Predictably, the heir to Heath is already claiming a victory, of sorts. He looks like a total t1t this evening.

    • southerner

      Of course he is. It’s what socialists do.

      • Kitty MLB


  • Kitty MLB

    So Hollande says David Cameron should play the same game as
    the others, the BBC are gloating. Germany is also gloating,
    although Merkel says we can work together, how nice of her.
    The English electorate will have their say and then the EU
    will lose their biggest piggy bank..

    • Lucy Sky Diamonds

      He will also be toast come the next GE. What an arrogant b8stard. Viva Le Pen.

      Nice to see them promoting islamic ghettos in Wales…….

      • Kitty MLB

        He is a totally wretched little toad and the most
        unpopular president in decades.Le Pen will
        easily defeat that oaf.

  • Lucy Sky Diamonds

    He had his chance. This is what matters to people:

    Why does he think his party got all those votes in 2010 in the first place?

  • Tom M

    “…. Cameron now finds himself having to deal with a Commission President who he has opposed in the most direct terms……”
    Does anybody think it would it have mattered if he hadn’t opposed him in most direct terms?
    Would anyone like to bet that early on in his presidency JCJ will announce some far reaching document to get the EU out of the current economic hole it is in.
    Cameron will claim it will have no sovereignty effect at all on GB. His negotiating team will find themselves ‘isolated’ in discussions. Cameron will claim that the proposals will have little effect on GB. A few months later after caving in and being humiliated into being “good Europeans” it will be unearthed that some British industry (probably the only one of it’s kind in the EU) is subject to some massively expensive overhaul to comply with the new norms (like our coal fired power stations or Victory V lozenges were). The negotiating team will attempt a rearguard action trying not to admit they didn’t see it in the negotiations at the same time telling us it doesn’t exist anyway. France will get an increase in the CAP.
    The government will ride out the storm, brush their feathers down and pretend it all never happened.

  • Denis_Cooper

    “In the coming weeks, we will have to watch and see whether other EU leaders
    try and come up with some kind of compensation package for Britain.”

    Yeah, sure, I expect they’ll all agree to do what Cameron says he wants and remove the commitment to “ever closer union” from the treaties.

    Talk about whistling in the dark.

    Anyway, they’ll feel even less well-disposed towards Cameron when they start to suffer those unspecified but terrible “consequences” that he threatened would
    ensue if they insisted on nominating Juncker against his wishes.

    Really scary, that kind of threat coming from Cameron, a man who is well-known
    for always sticking to his word and doing what he says he is going to do …

    • Smithersjones2013

      Well Cameron better get at it then because we give up most of the remaining vetoes in November. Then where will he be!

      • Denis_Cooper

        No, those vetoes have already gone, they went when the Treaty of Lisbon came into force on December 1st 2009, and it’s just a myth being uncritically propagated around the internet that more will go in November. It’s a hare that somebody set running, which runs and runs when it should have stopped long ago – must be powered by those superior batteries …

    • telemachus

      All in all you are saying is it is time for Cameron to bow out

  • Denis_Cooper

    For this decision it’s QMV, qualified majority voting, so it wouldn’t be 26 – 2.

    There are 352 votes in total, the UK has 29 votes and Hungary has 12 votes, so that would work out as 311 – 41, a defeat only about half as heavy as 26 – 2.

    If you divide 29 by 352 it comes to a stonking great 8.2% of the votes.

  • Kitty MLB

    Well Mr Cameron there is honour in failure when up against
    Something ultimately wrong. This will be a disaster for the city
    also.And no doupt the enemy of the United Kingdom such as
    Labour, the Lib Dems and the leftie establishment will delight
    in this as they want a even closer EU union.
    Also David Cameron has yet again been far too trusting,
    of Angela Merkel..The EU is a ever increasing succubus, and
    the countries of Europe know that.
    This has taken us even closer to the EU exit door.

    • Andy

      Wont be a disaster if we just refuse to cooperate with any EU financial meddling. We must assert our interests just like the Germans and the French do and if that means ignoring stuff so be it. After all what has just happened is not what is in the treaty.

      • Conway

        “Ignoring stuff” is not our way. That is why we are so out of step with the EU.

        • Andy

          Time we did then. Time we started to exert our authority. If they want our gold then we should call more of the tune.

          • Mike Oddpiece

            No it isn’t. It’s time we called out the other countries of the EU on their rule breaking or, preferably, just get out.

    • telemachus

      It means nothing
      Other than that Cameron is a joke
      The joke will run out next May
      Ed does not want and will not have a referendum
      Europe are fed up with Cameron’s posturing and will be glad when he is gone

      • Colonel Mustard

        It’s not about what Europe are fed up with. It’s about what the British people are fed up with and if Ed continues his head in the sand denial of that reality and stands by while further EU integration is rammed down our throats Labour will quickly become very unpopular indeed.

        • telemachus

          Most of the Brits do not care one way or another provided we are prosperous
          They would not relish the recession that a real threat to pull out would engender

          • Colonel Mustard

            You do not speak for the Brits. Let’s get that straight.

            In the recent Euro elections 27.49% voted for a party that campaigns to leave Europe, the highest percentage of the vote, returning 24 MEPs. More than your party which seems to think the Brits have no right to decide for themselves.

            • Chris Bristol

              Correction- 27.49% of an electorate which only turned out at a rate of 34%.

              So basically 10-15% of all Brits voted to leave the EU? I am shocked by the widespread anger!

              But please, keep frothing at the mouth thinking most people actually care about Europe.

              • telemachus

                Most people are indifferent or undecided about Europe rather than pro or anti.

                33% of interviewees were pro-EU and only 27% anti-EU, 39% were undecided or indifferent.

                Readers of the Guardian (66%), Independent and Mirror were more pro-EU whilst readers of the Telegraph, Mail and Sun (90%) were more anti-EU

                Overall, 78% of the people described press reports of the EU as ‘negative’.

              • Colonel Mustard

                Still more votes than Labour received in the same election and they voted for UKIP not “to leave the EU”. They have not been given that latter option for almost 40 years.

                You cannot speak for those who did not vote.

                And I’m not “frothing”.

          • saffrin

            Many Labour voters are beginning to understand the consequences of voting Labour.
            Mass unemployment awaits those not on the scrap-heap already.
            Vote Labour, get poverty.

      • Chris Bristol

        Looking forward to seeing the Conservatives thrown out on their ears. Another 13 years+ of wilderness, please!

        • the viceroy’s gin

          When that occurs, it will have absolutely nothing to do with any of you LibLabCon clones, lad, other than in the negative.

  • southerner

    Something of a humiliation for the Westminster bubble eh as well as the Camerloons.

    Here’s Mr Forsyth 3 short weeks ago :

    “All the signs are that Cameron will have his way. The momentum is draining away from Juncker, who is making increasingly erratic statements.

    ‘He’s not relishing the pressure,’ a UK diplomatic source tells me with an undisguised note of satisfaction.’ “

    • Kitty MLB

      Ah, but Labour, the BBC and everyone who is against
      the UK and want even closer union will delight in this.
      They are somewhat foolish if they think this will not
      take us to the EU exit door..And throw stones at Cameron
      at your peril…unless you wish to be likened to those above.

  • southerner

    No reason not to hold a plebiscite now. We can all see that there is no prospect of renegotiation (what us conservatives have been saying for many years). Don’t fall for Dave Harold-Wilson-Cameron’s con trick. Let’s decide now. It will be no different in 2017.

    • telemachus

      There will never be a referendum
      Clegg will not allow it now
      The Miliband majority administration will not even consider it

      • Colonel Mustard

        Don’t count your chickens.

        • telemachus

          I think I am safe
          Cameron’s pathetic embarrassment for our country today has turned even those who gave him the benefit of the doubt away

          • Colonel Mustard

            You think but you don’t know. Confidence and boasting are different things.

          • ortac

            “I think I am safe” –

            To do what, exactly?

  • fathomwest

    No reason why the referendum cannot be arranged for later this year. Clears the decks and makes the General Election that much more interesting. A New Way Forward etc. Can you imagine Milliband having anything concrete to offer?

    • realfish

      Miliband seems to be saying that Cameron was right to oppose Junker…but has failed to stop him…is isolated because other people reneged on their promises to join him (just like that World Cup vote, it’s they way Europeans are)…he needs to get more influence in Europe…and to do this needs to build a closer relationship with the EU, the kind Junker advocates…but was right to oppose Junker….but has failed to stop him (and on, and on).
      Once again Miliband is facing many ways at once, And, as usual, is waiting to see which is the best bandwagon to climb aboard.

    • telemachus

      What Miliband will have to offer will be meaningful engagement with Merkel and the others
      We will emerge with respect and influence

      • Colonel Mustard

        Miliband couldn’t engage meaningfully with a bacon sandwich. If you think a weird and mutant hybrid of Jerry Lewis and a talking donkey will get the better of Merkel you are even more deluded than your comments suggest.

      • Andy

        With Merkel ? You can’t believe a word the b**** says. So the moral of todays events is you can’t trust the Continental Europeans.

        • telemachus

          Merkel likes the English
          She wants to accommodate us
          Further, if she wants to impose fiscal discipline on the Southern Europeans she actually needs us
          And what she needs is someone in Downing Street who does not need to look over his shoulder at Baron and the Bast*rds

          • Andy

            If the lying b*tch wants our help she should realize that it isn’t a one way street. The UK is the third largest nation in Europe and the second largest contributor to the EU. So the stupid woman should show the UK proper respect. Until she does and the rest of the Continental Europeans do so we should make them pay until it hurts.

            • telemachus

              The German Chancellor yesterday rang Downing Street to beg the Prime Minister to back down over his opposition to the appointment of top bureaucrat Jean-Claude Juncker.

              Chancellor Merkel and Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte both rang Mr Cameron yesterday to try to resolve the row.

              He told them his position “would not change” and both leaders conceded that the vote will go ahead even though Britain is almost certain to be isolated.

              • Andy

                Like I said she is a lying b*tch. Now lets make them pay and pay and pay.

                • telemachus

                  We now must enlist and tame her
                  Only Ed can do that

                • Andy

                  Don’t be stupid. The b*tch lied and the rest of them twisted the treaties. Lets leave now. You can go live there – they are busy building a Fascist State which is just to your liking. Heil Merkel. Remember to click your heels and raise your right arm when you say it.

      • Augustus

        Frau Merkel had to choose Juncker to stay friends with her coalition partners. And Merkel is the boss to whom all garden gnomes, including Milipants, bow in obedience.

        • 2trueblue

          Merkel chose Junker because Germany needs to continue taking advantage of selling us all Germanys goods at Greek prices.

      • GIN1138

        Didn’t we try being “good Europeans” for the sake of the British interest from 1997 to 2010?

        What exactly did Labour’s “engagement” achieve?

        Every treaty was signed with a nod and a wink.

        Blair gave away half of Maggie’s rebate and got back absolutely nothing in return.

        No reform of CAP.

        The list goes on….

        The only difference made by Labour “engagment” is that the European elite have an easier time because Britain doesn’t make a fuss, but the outcome is still the same.

  • Andrew Morton

    I’ll drink to that!
    I don’t think Camoron was defeated. He wasn’t running for the position as chief barman.

  • BigAl

    Who really cares?

    The only vote that counts is the referendum in 2017, but I don’t recall voting for Juncker…..

    • Andrew Morton

      Is the referendum before or after it becomes European law that we can’t pull out?

      • Denis_Cooper

        Before, not that it would make much difference until the EU had a proper army which it could use to keep us in.

      • berosos_bubos

        We will always have the legal right to pull out so you are just being ridiculous.

        • Andrew Morton

          So if you think I am ridiculous for asking a reasonable question, what are you for answering? idiot?

          David Cameron’s promise of a referendum on EU membership, according to his timetable, is set to take place in 2017 following the conclusion of negotiations on reforming the European Union or changing Britain’s terms of EU membership. This is unlikely even if he is Prime Minister after the next election.

          In the Prime Minister’s so-called Bloomberg Speech, David Cameron set out his commitment to staying in the EU’s Single Market but through negotiations delivering five significant changes. These are competitiveness through less regulation, flexibility by allowing countries to opt-out of EU rules, a return of powers to member states, democratic accountability with a greater role for national parliaments and finally fairness.

          In short exiting from the political aspects of the EU and only keeping the economic links. On a political level this will appeal to many. The date earmarked for the referendum, 2017, is however not only impractical but indeed impossible, this is if he really does want to present to the public the results of his proposed renegotiation.

          • Smithersjones2013

            You’re assertion is wrong because withdrawal is enshrined in article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. Once invoked within two years of invoking that article unless otherwise agreed by both parties a nation automatically leaves the EU whether negotiations have been completed or not..

            Cameron cannot change that without a major renegotiation of that treaty and as we know from incessant debates over recent years the EU commission is not of a mind to re-open negotiations on the Lisbon Treaty

    • Smithersjones2013

      Well that’s because the pro-european establishment parties chose to campaign on domestic issues during the Euros campaign instead of doing what was done in just about every other EU nation which was campaign around the issue of the European Commission President. Junckers was the official EPP candidate for commission president

      That the UK EPP party polled a ‘massive’ 28,000 votes probably didn’t help either.