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Britain is not alone in its mad attitude to Islamism

21 June 2014

12:24 PM

21 June 2014

12:24 PM

There is a tendency in Britain to think we are alone in our national madness. So I thought I would cheer everyone up on this lovely weekend by pointing out that one of the big stories in the Netherlands this week has been whether or not a pro-ISIS demonstration should be allowed in the Hague. The demonstration was planned to take place outside the Iraqi Embassy.

There are of course some who are strongly pro-ISIS in the Netherlands. There are also some who are against. Most importantly there is also a political class which has been carefully weighing up the alleged undesirability of ISIS with the historic Dutch tradition of free speech. I suppose we must wish the Dutch people well in these deliberations.


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  • greggf

    But at least the Netherlands have Geert Wilders who is not silenced by the official cowardice that prevails in the UK.

  • WimsThePhoenix

    After the Geert Wilders “Fitna” trial, talking about the Dutch tradition of “Free Speech” seems to me the height of irony.

  • mohdanga

    “There are of course some who are strongly pro-ISIS in the Netherlands. There are also some who are against. Most importantly there is also a political class which has been carefully weighing up the alleged undesirability of ISIS with the historic Dutch tradition of free speech.”
    Now let’s take a guess which ‘Dutch’ people would be in agreement with ISIS. Could it be, ahem, followers of a certain religion who have eimigrated to Holland from the tolerant countries of North Africa and the Middle east and have no interest in integrating to Dutch society while the Dutch elite continue to ignore the problems they present?
    As for the ‘historic Dutch tradition of free speech’ you must be joking given the persecution of Geert Wilders by the Dutch parliament and courts because he had the temerity to criticize Islam. The script will remain the same: appease Islam, persecute Dutch citizens who criticize it.

  • tolpuddle1

    What IS a sane attitude to Islamism ? I’ve yet to see a convincing one from either Left or Right.

    We haven’t got the backbone to tackle Islamism head-on and doing so would unite the Moslem world against us.

    Three suggestions:

    Carpe diem – “let’s face the music and dance ! ”
    A Day of Prayer; Islam is on a roll mainly because the West’s no longer Christian
    Reduce our dependence on Oil

  • Iain Hill

    Dictated by the government of Israel?

  • liam

    Some of the things I read in the German press are disturbing. The British media and politicans have a habit of acting as apologists for Islam, but parts of the German media are about 20 years behind Britain on this issue. The level of naivety towards Islam is similar to what we saw in the BBC and the rest of the British media in the 90s. Their Muslim population is smaller than ours, but growing rapidly. Some Germans still have issues with their 20th century history which can lead them to be overcautious about criticizing non-German cultures. Additionally, they may have a false sense of security because many of the Turkish-origin immigrants are in fact quite “German”, moderate and westernised – leading the casual German onlooker to assume that more recent Muslim immigrants from other parts of the world will be similarly trouble-free.

    I do see the OCCASIONAL article which is more realistic, but rarely in the mainstream media.

    • tolpuddle1

      The West is no longer boss. How things turn out in the world will be determined as much in Mesopotamia as on the North European Plain.

    • HorseshitHunter

      On the money, Liam – I lived in the Islamic world for 27 years, and while most Moslems are decent people who want a better life for their families, they are also (in Europe) Moslems first, and European citizens second. Their unhinged religion is a cult based on a warlord-sponsored rewrite of the Old Testament, and it underpins the behaviour of ISIS et al…Islam represents nothing less than an existential threat to life as Europeans born post-1945 know it. We need to be able to debate this openly, without being accused of Islamophobia…

  • Dutchnick

    Living in the Netherlands I think it is right that a pro-ISIS demo can take place indeed it is such events that underlines the problem, do not hide it.Such thoughts and beliefs need flushing out and brought to peoples attention, we never hear of the dreadful situation in Scandinavia where Muslim immigration has been and continues to be a very serious problem. Listen and learn!

    • Augustus

      Shiites and Sunnis have been fighting each other for centuries. It’s a classic historical power struggle. And the Prophet Mohammed gave the use of force a sacred status. But today, in what is supposed to be a civilized part of the world, immigration policies by left-wing politically correct progressives have created a situation where the glorification of extreme violence of past ages can just turn up to be publicly praised and honoured on our streets. That can never be ‘right’ under any circumstances.

      • tolpuddle1

        Immigration = Global Capitalism. The right-wingers of our “Elite” (!!!) favour it as much as their Left / liberal pals.

  • sebastian2

    Freedom of speech and thought ISIS style is:”We can say what we like but if you disagree and we can claim you’ve insulted the prophet, we will attack you. Maybe kill you.”
    This, I fear, is the general mohammedan approach – present to varying degrees but always there. Why should the Dutch, or anyone else, permit such freedoms to those who exploit them only to end them, and who bully others who defend them and exercise them (the Danish cartoons; Theo Van Gogh’s bloody murder; the pulling of Tom Holland’s history of islam; the utter madness of Londonistan; the death threats against “apostates” particularly those who speak out ……….)?
    Can’t think of a single good reason.

  • Coleridge1

    ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, islamofascist Iran, apartheid Pakistan, genocidal Sudan – to the non-Moslem world there really isn’t any difference between them. They all persecute Christians, kill Jews, oppress women, hang Gays, murder apostates and enjoy paedophilia. The west should consider arming both ISIS and their Shiite opponents and give them all the encouragement they need to wipe each other out.

  • cartimandua

    The risk comes from the abuse of women in Muslim cultures. They are traumatised by it and cannot provide a secure attachment for their children.
    Muslims here need to be encouraged to wind back on religiosity. It with an insecure attachment primes for radicalization.
    Serial killers by proxy provide a powerful emotional experience which over rides the weak attachment to the family.
    So we need to utterly refuse all manifestations of gender apartheid, tribal customs, 5 prayers a day etc.
    And then stop allowing women to be traumatized here or brought in carrying generations of trauma with them.

    • tolpuddle1

      One reason why Moslem women remain Moslem, is that they look around and see that in many ways the Western world is even worse – the raunch culture, millions of worried women fretting over their looks, the obsession with money, the bitter social divisions, the absence of any sincere idealism (as opposed to being opinionated), the terrible brutality and selfishness towards all who aren’t in the prosperous mainstream (the poorly educated, the elderly, for example).

      • cartimandua

        Nothing is worse than the life of Muslim women in the Muslim world and Africa.
        We don’t allow polygamy, child marriage, or FGM.
        We don’t expect widows to live out their days as abused domestic servants.

  • bigmax

    What I really want is for us (the West) to be confident enough in our civilisation that we allow these sorts of demonstrations to take place but nobody takes a blind bit of notice, except maybe to jeer or laugh at them when walking by. That would make them look pathetic.

    One thing that cheered me up a few years ago was when I heard that British workmen jeered at old Hooky when he was preaching outside that mosque in north London. That showed me that the ordinary people, if not our ruling elite, still have some spirit about them.

    As it is, our schools, local councils, the police, the BBC and all our public institutions up to and including the government, seem to be running scared of Islamd and Muslims. It makes me sick.

    • Joe Connolly

      My local village primary school takes the kids once a year to meet an imam in a mosque miles away. No comparable meeting with Christians though the vicar does have some sort of link with it, I think.

  • Bob-B

    Given that the main activity of ISIS is killing Muslims they would seems to be the worst sort of Islamophobes. I trust they will denounced as such by all those who are keen to lambast Islamophobia wherever it lurks.

    • Joe Connolly

      Not just Muslims. They also crucify Christians. And I dread to think what they would do to Jews and atheists if they came across any.

      • Bob-B

        They have an awful lot of Shias to kill first.

        • Advocatus_Diaboli_69

          Douglas Murray, Speccie, June 17th

          The way in which what is going on in the Middle East has become a
          religious war has long been obvious. Just take this radio exchange,
          caught at the ground level earlier this month, between two foreign
          fighters in Syria, the first from al-Qa’eda’s Islamic State in Iraq and
          Syria [ISIS], the second from the Free Syrian army [FSA]. ‘You apostate
          infidels,’ says the first. ‘We’ve declared you to be “apostates”, you
          heretics. You don’t know Allah or His Prophet, you creature. What kind
          of Islam do you follow?’ To which the FSA fighter responds, ‘Why did you
          come here? Go fight Israel, brother.’ Only to be told, ‘Fighting
          apostates like you people takes precedence over fighting the Jews and
          the Christians. All imams concur on that.’

  • StephanieJCW

    Yes Douglas, this is that little thing known as “Free Speech”.

    I thought you were a fan of that?

    • artemis in france

      Free speech which incites murder and terrorism is, I think you’ll find, generally frowned upon by civilised people.

  • Damien Woodgate

    Isis are the syria ” freedom fighters” david cameron wanted to install In power a few months ago, remember him banging on the table demanding support for a bombardment on the strength of a false flag attack by these very same people, at the behest of the saudi government, maybe they are using the weapons we sold to them after prince Charles done a lap dance for the saudi royal family, these people were doing the bidding of the US/saudi/israeli/UK warhawks, they’re a rabid dog that has just went for the throat of its owner

    • cartimandua

      No to be fair Dave wanted to support the free Syrian army not ISIS at all.

      • logdon

        At that point he didn’t know who he was supporting as long as they were anti-Assad.

    • Coleridge1

      ISIS doing the bidding of the US and Israel? Are you the product of some Shiite Madrassa as opposed to some loony Sunni Madrassa?

  • victor67

    “The UK wing of ISIS” according to our leaders is the greatest threat to the UK. So a group of alienated young Muslims with too much testosterone and not enough common sense has got the establishment in hysterics. An unverified Jihadi video is used to whip up the fear and thus “the something must be done” drums start.
    The British public are being lied to again like WMD and 45mins to be softened up for more ME war.
    Lets see the evidence. Who are these 450? How organized are they? And where are their plans to wage Jihad against the UK?. At the moment its all fear and speculation.
    They are a security problem that needs to be managed , not a major threat to the security of the UK

    • Joe Connolly

      You don’t think that British jihadis might turn to be a much more dangerous threat than the IRA ever was?

      Doesn’t news like this alarm you?
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10917357/The-brilliant-brothers-who-left-British-suburb-for-jihad-in-Syria.html

      I fear you may be living in a fool’s paradise.

    • vieuxceps2

      You seem to ignore the three million muslims now dwelling in England whose numbers will naturally inrease exponentially,not to mention those in Europe and Scandinavia.Do you think theses people will be content with their present ghettoes?
      Unfortunately, most of these muslims have dark skins which effectively defends them from criticism in this our progressive society.Nevertheless the reality is that we and the other N Europeans face a looming danger,the same danger which faced the indigenous peoples of the Americas and Australasia when we Europeans arrived.Life in a reservation,anyone?

  • swatnan

    The point about allowing a pro demonstrationis that you could identify the trouble makers at a stroke and lock them away for a bit.

    • Joe Connolly

      Some terrorists are more intelligent than that. The hardest core will stay under cover, the outriders will go on a recruiting drive–during which many new faces and contacts will be discovered.

      • mightymark

        If they all dress like in the picture I shouldn’t think any new faces would be capable of being discovered – and that is only the blokes!

  • Augustus

    The pro-ISIS demonstration didn’t happen after all. But that left-wing politicians couldn’t do anything to stop it isn’t much of a surprise Try getting a permit for a pro-Wilders demonstration and see what happens then. The fanatical Muslims have sounded out the market. In a year or two they’ll try again.

  • andy_gill

    The Islmofascists will eventually overreach themselves. Even now, we can say things about Islam that would have got you fired from your job ten years ago. Remember when Kilroy-Silk was fired for writing that Arabs had contributed nothing to civilization?

    We have already seen the political class pressing for the teaching of British values in schools. We all know this means non-Muslim values. Once the jihadis really get going in the UK, ordinary people will become so enraged the political class will have to take further measures.

    I look forward to a tightening of restrictions on mosques, investigation of Islamic “charities”, and a general lack of interest in Muslim sensibilities. Let’s serve food we want to eat, and if Muslims don’t want it, let them serve themselves. If Muslims want to pray 5 times a day, let them do it in their own time, and in a room they pay for.

    I hope we can squeeze Islam right out of public life in this country.

    • Andy

      Mosques should have been licensed years ago. And all preachers in Mosques strictly controlled. The Muslim community has done very little to control extremists in their midst. Time we did it for them. If they don’t like it, well there is the door.

    • The Patriot

      I truly hope you’re right, and before lots more innocent British civilian lives are lost..which is what’s coming.

    • Kennybhoy

      “The Islmofascists will eventually overreach themselves…”

      Indeed. The main threat they pose is that they will provoke a resurgence of fascism in Europe…

    • Joe Connolly

      “The Islmofascists will eventually overreach themselves”
      That’s exactly what the Byzantines and Sassanids told themselves in the seventh century.

    • bigmax

      Personally, I want to know if the meat I buy is halal or not. And I don’t mean someone chanting mumbo-jumbo over it as the animal dies, I mean whether or not the animal is conscious or not as it dies (has its throat slit). I’m no vegetarian but I prefer meat which has been humanely slaughtered.

    • Coleridge1

      The real core of the problem, the real cause of their hatred and murder is their devotion to the Koran. Ban it now. Make it’s possession illegal rather like possessing heroin.

    • vieuxceps2

      Good to read some common sense.Islam is the problem for the world, including the moslems could they but see it.I suppose in this “[progressive” time it woild not be possible for religions,all religions, to be taught as history rather than truth?

  • TNT

    Let it proceed. THIS is the kind of demonstration that Muslims have always turned out for. They will never show up for humanitarianism. What a lovely illustration this will one day be for historians.

  • Picquet

    Let it happen, please. The more photographs the Police can share with Interpol the better.

  • Bonkim

    By the fruit you will recognize the tree – and actions of Islam speak louder than words in condemning it in most non-Islamic countries of the world. To be fair Muslims should be given a fair chance to disown the barbarity of their compatriots elsewhere and prove their faith is not anti-West and that they wish to integrate. Time and patience is running out.

  • Sean L

    There has never been, and never could be, total freedom of speech, anywhere. However if I carried a banner saying “Behead those who insult Britain” in the environs of a mosque I dare say I’d be nicked before you could dial 999. Whereas we’ve all seen images of bearers of “Behaead those who insult Islam” banners being given police protection.

    As for attitudes to Islam elsewhere . . . I was in Estonia wiith some colleagues on a software training course a few years ago. One of our party was Muslim; and although there was no sign of any Islamic presence in Estonia, it was remarkable how our hosts were fawning over our solitary Muslim.

    Thus, for example, no one was allowed to drink alcohol while she was at the restaurant tablle. And yet only the previous week we’d been out at a London restaurant drinking in her presence yet the devout one hadn’t batted an eyelid. . .

    • Andy

      Your Estonian friends were being stupid. The fact she was a Muslim is her problem, not everyone else’s. You all should have been drink if you wanted to and if she didn’t like it she could shove it where the sun don’t shine.

    • Joe Connolly

      Not allowing other people to drink was a gross interference with your rights. Was she veiled?
      Of course other Muslims may not have been a radical at all. I have several nominally Muslim friends who are most certainly on the same side as Douglas (and probably share more of his views than most Spectator readers). But they are amused to find that their names bring them better treatment and more business when they deal with local government and the like. In moderate Muslim society there are various tests to see whether you are dealing with another moderate or not. Willingness to drink alcohol is one of the most obvious.

  • anyfool

    Mass deportations or civil clashes is what is on the cards for all of Europe, fantasists will demur, but the genie is out of the bottle, the genie being that, independent thought about immigration cannot now be dismissed with the usual mantra.
    People can see civilised society starting to break up before their eyes, time is fast running out and will rapidly turn into catastrophe when people lose their fear of the economic arguments that will be thrown up, after all does it matter if you are slightly better off, if you are living in a nightmare.

    • robbydot

      The economic argument is rubbish anyway. How can paying out for hundreds of thousands of foreign layabouts, sorry welfare claimants, make us richer?!

      • logdon

        Fifty percent of adult muslim males and seventy percent of the females are unemployed.

  • Denis_Cooper

    It’s for the Dutch to decide what should be done in their country.

    As far as this country is concerned, I would first wish to know the nationality of those demonstrating in favour of Isis, because we have no obligation to allow the same degree of freedoms for thought, expression and assembly to foreigners as
    we allow to our fellow citizens in their own country.

    For what it is worth, that was even recognised in Article 16 of the European Convention on Human Rights:

    http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Convention_ENG.pdf

    “ARTICLE 16

    Restrictions on political activity of aliens

    Nothing in Articles 10, 11 and 14 shall be regarded as preventing the High Contracting Parties from imposing restrictions on the political activity of aliens.”

    So the Home Secretary should have no hesitation about ordering that aliens who are engaged in undesirable political activities should be deported back to their own countries, and they can try their luck doing it there not here.

    Secondly, I would wish to know what they are saying. The police should come down hard on anything which may cause public disturbance or incite others to break the law, otherwise if they are British citizens they should be left alone to say what they want to say.

    I will not go into details about how we have arrived at this situation where people who hate us and our country have been allowed to become citizens, we all know that the blame rests with the idiot politicians we foolishly elected.

    • Foxy Loxy

      Yes, but problem is that whatever happens in the Netherlands does affect us – as those same ‘Dutch’ Islam-ists are entitled to simply waltz into this country if they think that things aren’t going their way in their ‘home’ country. Open borders and the EU mean that their problems are very much our problems (or at least our problems tomorrow).

      After all, as ‘citizens of the EU’ they’ve as much right to be in Britain as you have.

      • Joe Connolly

        Which is why the dear old Dutch give families of Somali refugees citizenship–and then wave goodbye to them as they catch the ferry to England.

        Thank you so much Netherlands!

    • Kennybhoy

      “…we foolishly elected.”

      Yup. In a democracy we get the government we deserve…

  • TimK

    Free speech is all very well but it’s the excuse that leads to murder and decapitations that is totally unacceptable.

  • HookesLaw

    I’m sure Britain has had pro IRA demonstrations and the Orange Order march every year.

    • AndrewMelville

      To be fair, the Orange Order celebrates a revolution which gave us the Bill of Rights, parliamentary supremacy and freedom of religion. All things I personally support – you?

      • Kennybhoy

        Nope. They celebrate their ascendancy over the majority of their fellow countrymen…

        • AndrewMelville

          Not so.

          • Kennybhoy

            Tis’ indeed so…

  • tomgreaves

    The tolerance of free speech in the UK comes with conditions. If your name is Farage, or you support UKIP, you will be shamed, humiliated, put down and generally abused personally, as an individual. The establishment has admitted that they have conspired with the media to run a propaganda campaign against UKIP, whose views will be laughed at rather than properly discussed. However, if you are a Muslim and you hold extreme views and, for example, campaign for Sharia law in the UK, the establishment gives you enough freedom to build a Trojan Horse to invade our children’s education with extremism. An analysis of the old world’s attitude to Muslim immigration would, quite certainly, point to criminal irresponsibility in protecting Western culture from the poisonous hatred of fascistic idealism. The West cannot avoid the consequences of its terrifying mistakes.

    • miford

      Not only were they given the freedom to build a Trojan Horse within this country, they were given the funding by Labour as well. What a great country we are. So generous. It’s criminally irresponsible.

  • @PhilKean1

    .
    Brutal, racially-motivated attacks in France –

    – racially-motivated murders in Britain, and the rise of ultra-nationalist parties in mainland Europe.

    The cause? Liberal-left politicians’ stupid, short-sighted unlimited immigration policies and the madness of forcing civilised peoples’ to live alongside immigrants with medieval mindsets from the 3rd world.
    .

    • telemachus

      We are where we are
      Spilt milk cannot be gathered up
      The correct thing is to embrace them to our way of life
      Not to lambast and drive into the hands of the Radical Mullahs

      • balance_and_reason

        First we need to drag out the Labour strategists responsible for the outrage…nail them to a wall, so that the more naive and foolish in society can see that utterly irresponsible and cynical actions at least have consequences. It is all very well saying we had large numbers of islamic folk prior to the immigration explosion in 1997 forwards, but it was substantially less numerous and was therefore feasible to integrate them, in fact the process was happening.
        Thats all gone.
        Labour should be wound up and senior staff jailed.

        • telemachus

          I repeat
          Our energies must be directed to integrating those that are here to our way of life
          Any other course plays into the hands of the Jihadists
          *
          Or is that what you want

          • balance_and_reason

            I think most people know what needs to be done….what we don’t need in the future is the usual rewriting of history by the usual suspects, blaming Thatcher for the cynical behaviour of the Labour party…we need some heads on spikes and accountability….people need to see what Labour did and understand what a socialist vote means.

            • telemachus

              And just how will that help the prevention of Jihadisation of those here?

              • balance_and_reason

                Labour will find it more difficult to get elected…a good start.

              • Ooh!MePurse!

                It will be a start.

            • Damien Woodgate

              “What we don’t need is the usual rewriting of history” ….. proceeds to rewrite history

              • balance_and_reason

                in what sense?

          • Bradleybear

            To late for that these people don’t want to integrate they want to take over the country.

            • telemachus

              On the contrary
              The many Muslims that I know are very keen to integrate
              Their religion os as deep as most incumbents C of E’s

              • Andy

                They are heretics. We should convert them.

                • telemachus

                  Reasonable proposition
                  But impossible

              • tjamesjones

                I agree with telemachus on all this. The ship has long sailed, move on. If you want, take the whole immigration process as the next step in the great Imperial adventure. Queen Vic ruled more muslims than, I don’t know, nearly anybody else.

                • FrenchNewsonlin

                  The good Queen Vic may well have ruled over them but she did so in situ over there rather than in situ over here!

              • Hexhamgeezer

                Liar

              • balance_and_reason

                They have no right at all to integrate their religion as part of our society. We must not fund it; where it does not contravene our standards of liberty it must be allowed to exist, but not as part of Britain’s culture, just an option in a free country for those that want to go down that path, subject to all the usual laws as per everything else here. What an extraordinary idea.

          • Catherine Waterman

            Sadly Telemachus, these people are impossible to integrate as they do not wish to be integrated. Multiculturalist separatism and infilitration is their aim, until Sharia law is fully implemented in the UK and other parts of Eurorpe. They are playing us. They know we are liberal minded and they are taking full advantage of our democracy in order to manipulate our laws.

            I understand where you are coming from, trying to see the best in people and doing as you would be done by. Alas, the Islamist mindset is totally different from the Western democaratic mindset. Do investigate further, look into Islamic teachings deeply and you may well discover the truth in Douglas Murray’s wise quip, “A Neo-Conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality.”

            Thank you Douglas for opening my formerly naive leftist green eyes!

            • telemachus

              Catherine you are wrong
              I know many Muslims who wish and do interact fully and socially with our circle

              • Sinceyouask

                Let us accept that this is true. So what? The problem comes from those who don’t wish to integrate, not those who do, and the latter have no control over the former’s behaviour.

              • Catherine Waterman

                I’m talking of Islamist extremists and budding extremists, a particular persuasion of Muslim who has no wish to integrate; but whose sole aim is to infiltrate and eventually colonise until Sharia law is fully implemented throughout the Western world.

                There is a difference between religious and political Islam, although this distinction is often blurred, which is the issue here.

                In my view, all religion (not just Islam) is best left out of politics and the process of law making. That said, we need to be particularly wary of Islam because no other religious belief system is currently spawning suicide bombers.

              • vieuxceps2

                None so blind as those who do not want to see.

              • Kevin Russell

                I know a lot who don’t.

          • logdon

            And what has the last fifty years of your ‘integration’ produced?

          • vieuxceps2

            You write as if the moslems should “integrate” with us. Do you not realise that before too long it wilbe a matter of us “integrating” with them?

          • KW

            People have an inherent right to prevent their own genocide. Individuals like you are violating International law, in particular the UN Convention on the Prevention of Genocide.

        • Kennybhoy

          “It is all very well saying we had large numbers of islamic folk prior to the immigration explosion in 1997 forwards, but it was substantially less numerous and was therefore feasible to integrate them, in fact the process was happening.Thats all gone.”

          Sound. But the problem isnt so much the numbers post 1997 as the final triumph of multi-culturalism…

        • WimsThePhoenix

          There’s a good description of the fined old English tradition of hanging, drawing and quartering in Wikipedia. I think it needs reinstating.

      • @PhilKean1

        .
        We can leave the EU so we can control our borders. And we can also stop appeasing those who refuse to live by Britain’s rules.
        .

        • telemachus

          Not sure most Romanians are Muslim

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Well as an apologist for Labour, the most duplicitous, dishonest and unprincipled political party on Earth, that is hilarious. Perhaps if they had guarded this country’s borders instead of “rubbing the right’s nose in it” we might not be in this position today. Labour the party of lies, lying and liars.

        • telemachus

          Son
          See above
          What is, is
          Embrace them

          • Hexhamgeezer

            Koff

          • Inverted Meniscus

            You are the perfect representative of Labour the party of lies, lying, liars, incompetence and mediocrity.

            • Ooh!MePurse!

              They should not be allowed to have another chance at destroying our country. Labour hate the English.

            • Gafto

              He is a wind up merchant, don’t react to his nonsense. I mean seriously, ’embrace them’ he says, deport them more like.

          • MissDemeanor

            ^ embrace them

            LOL

            they can’t even embrace each other!

          • WimsThePhoenix

            Send for Dave “Hug-a-Hizbollah” Quisling.

          • vieuxceps2

            Tele
            See above
            What i s can be changed
            Expot them

        • Andy

          The Fascist Labour Party should be a proscribed organisation and membership of it made a criminal offence with a minimum term of 5 years imprisonment.

          • telemachus

            At 40,000 pounds a year that could be pricey
            Grayling wants all the places he can get for those trying to apply for benefits

            • WimsThePhoenix

              What a moron you are.

        • Iain Hill

          Why single out only Labour from the others?

      • doctorseraphicus

        That is a great idea, but how? Muslims have access to every advantage offered to anyone else in the country: education, health, welfare. But that doesn’t always add up to a meaningful life, and for some the call to an (exciting, adventurous, purposeful aspect of their) their cultural roots is clearly very strong indeed.

        • telemachus

          All they have to do is read the Mail
          And they are alienated
          And run to the arms of the Mullahs

          • Gafto

            The Mail is a mainstream paper. If they cannot read a mainstream paper of the country that they have decided to move to without then running to the mullahs, well what does that say about their ability to think critically or integrate into their host society? It is not our problem if they feel ‘alienated’, it is theirs.

            • telemachus

              You deliberately miss the point
              The Mail sets out to belittle and alienate Muslims
              It is this attempt at marginalization that drives them into the arms of the Radical Mullahs

              • Alexsandr

                sounds like they are too ignorant to cope with a liberal society where there is a range of views. that is their problem, not ours.

              • logdon

                ‘drives them into the arms of the Radical Mullahs’

                You talk in terms as cliched as the BBC.

          • MissDemeanor

            ah yes, it is very obvious that without the Daily Mail, there would not be any radicalised muslims….

          • vieuxceps2

            Well, obviously, Tele, we must immediately burn down the Daily Mail.Can’t have our ethnics offended can we?

        • Joe Connolly

          There are lots of Muslim-background people who are assimilated and will have a drink. You should encourage them not push them back into the arms of the imams.

      • ARDNASSAC

        Unfortunately, when some of us try to embrace their daughters, their families murder their daughters!

      • James Lovelace

        “We are where we are
        Spilt milk cannot be gathered up
        The correct thing is to embrace them to our way of life”

        The naive ramblings of the deluded, ignorant Left. Muslims want nothing to do with our way of life.

        Almost the last words uttered by the founder of islam were “do not take the jews and christians as your friends”. (koran 5:51).

        This was then superceded by “kill the unbelievers”. (koran 9:5).

        But arrogant racists like you think you can get muslims to drop these values, which you’ve encouraged them not to question for the past 50 years.

      • logdon

        You have a lot to learn about Islam.

      • vieuxceps2

        What if they prefer us not to embrace them,or indeed contact t them in any way as they close the streets to their ghettoes and quietly continue to out-breed us? What then, silly Tele?

      • greggf

        Certainly tele that seems to be the policy of the mainstream in the UK – even possibly including UKIP.
        But whether it’s correct or not remains to be seen; appeasing the previous totalitarian monster at its incipience didn’t work did it?

    • wilmers13

      For Germany the quasi open borders existed since 1948, the West German Constitution. When the labour recruitment offices in Madrid, Belgrade, Turkey etc were shut down in 1974/75 people turned up as asylum seekers and a decade later the East channeled them in through East Berlin to destabilize the West. Whichever political line was in power, the open door policy was never questioned.
      In Frankfurt, West Germany, people were dismayed since about 1977, but the Federal politician I spoke to in 1980 remained silent when I spoke to him about deleting the asylum clause from the constitution. It would have required a 2/3 majority and with Germany’s past that was a hot potatoe, even though the asylum seekers came from Iran, Bangla Desh, Pakistan etc. From Iran first came the Shah opponents, then the Khomeini opponents and nobody ever went home.
      The current migration waves have many causes, but one of them is population growth continually outpacing economic growth so people turn into wildcards. Joining the religious groups is the cheapest way of letting off steam. While we cannot do anything about population growth we could try to strip the religions of their excessive power by relegating religion to a side issue. But the powers that be just love the obedience training by the religions.

      • tolpuddle1

        Religious faith is supposedly not about “obedience training” but about becoming a good and kind person capable of enjoying the goodness and kindness of Heaven.

        Islam seems to be misfiring in this department and to have degenerated into mere politics.

        The Christian West defended itself successfully against Islam for almost a millennium; the Free-thinking West has collapsed before Islam within a few decades. Inevitably – who’ll die for atheism, for secularism ?

    • pointlesswasteoftime

      No. The causes are the people who do not respect the right of another person to live the way they wish to, which, according to your post, is because they don’t like someone to be born abroad, where they have been brought up in a different culture.

      I thought you were a true Conservative, one who believes people should take responsibility for their own actions. Blaming racist murders on anyone except the racist murderers is ridiculous.

      • KW

        What a genocidal bigot you are. Not only that, a manipulative psychopath to boot. Given your a lefty, that is no surprise.

        • pointlesswasteoftime

          How a genocidal bigot? How a manipulative psychopath? Against whom do I wage whatever insane campaign it is you think I am involved in? It looks like “you’re” using big words of which you have no comprehension.

  • Mark

    As so often, our confusion comes from a failure properly to define terms. Those who wish to overthrow free society cannot by definition be tolerated or accepted by any free society that wishes to survive. The crime is not intolerance; it is treason.

  • JoeDM

    Islamofascism is the biggest threat to the free world.

    • Mark

      External threat, I agree. But I worry the bigger threat is internal: too many of us no longer recognise the principles of a free society, that they have been won and must be defended.

      • Andy

        That’s true. I am always amazed at how illiberal people are, except towards themselves.

      • Ooh!MePurse!

        Yes, very true. Very frustrating.

      • Kennybhoy

        You will get nowhere with such sensible analysis hereabouts…

    • Kennybhoy

      Caca on stilts. The only existential threat to the Free World is homegrown.Cultural Marxism.

    • James Lovelace

      Vichy David Cameron in 2005: “Islamic extremists are Nazis”.

      Almost 10 years later, and he’s done nothing to stop the muslim population of the UK from doubling in size.

  • Lucy Sky Diamonds

    Lets hope they win the world cup.

  • Newcombe

    Reap what you sow.

    In a mad dash to win the title of the most progressive Western liberal country, all Western countries are vying with each other to see who most tolerates the worst intolerants. I think so far Netherlands is well behind the joint leaders Sweden and Finland, who between them have sent many a Jews packing so far – all in the interest of being tolerant, you see.

    However, what with our contribution so far and our brave lads fighting for freedom in Syria and Iraq along with the freedom fighters Isis, I think if only the Rt Hon Michael Gove would shut up a little bit, like most of his party and the opposition, we may just pip them to the post.

    • Ooh!MePurse!

      That’s very interesting, Newcombe. Where would you suggest is the best place to read about what has happened in Sweden and Finland?

  • dado_trunking

    We are not alone indeed. We are not alone in not defining what our cause is in Syria or Iraq. Tell us what our cause is there. What do we want of these people?

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …we want them to declare jihad on your sockpuppet army.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        No chance. There are far too many of them.

    • miford

      Their oil?

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