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Angela Merkel offers a sop to the poor old British

30 June 2014

5:28 PM

30 June 2014

5:28 PM

The row over Jean-Claude Juncker was confected outrage which spectacularly failed to achieve what Cameron wanted. It was confected because the alternatives to the ghastly Luxembourg bureaucrat are scarcely less federalist than he is himself. But the real giveaway, the most significant moment, came in Angela Merkel’s statement, issued as a means of giving a sop to the poor old British. Don’t worry, she said, Britain can reach ‘ever-closer union’ – ie political union – at a slower speed. In other words, there is no question that we will eventually succumb, we’ll just do it more slowly than everyone else.

Bring on that referendum.


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Show comments
  • tomas

    Yes the perfect home for dishonest, incompetent socialist nutters.
    کارشناسی ارشد بدون کنکور دستگاه حضور و غیاب .

  • Marcus

    Just read your article in the Sun calling the ECHR and the French racist for banning the burka.

    Does that mean the Turks are racist for banning it too ? Or not: because they are often a bit darker in skin colour than the French so that means they can’t be racist?
    Also, some muslims are white.

  • Bobby Morton

    George, I know you follow this blog, will you please drop VAT back to 15 percent. It will move things along nicely. And tell your glossy faced boss to appeal to the majority rather than his hippy student mates. Some of us are still working our bollocks off for this country.

  • Bobby Morton

    two sad gits and a lovely looking women- go back home on the tube to your average wives and talk about the kids and their history GCSE results– the the the, EH?

  • Bobby Morton

    Did he just say Cameron tongs?

  • Amir

    Check this article out about about Brussels’ NO NO NO to Britain:

    http://www.casualpolitics.co.uk/2014/06/was-this-time-brussels-turn-to-say-no-no-no-to-britain/

  • Liz

    I want to be part of a federalist superstate. That sounds clean and orderly.

    • Max07

      You could always move to Argentina.

  • justejudexultionis

    I wish you British would damn well leave instead of hypocritically remaining within an organisation to which you have no fundamental allegiance whatsoever.

  • Amir
    • AtMyDeskToday

      There are so many spelling and grammar mistakes in that site that it could have been written by a 5 year old.

      • Wessex Man

        it’s only a blog site! not an examination!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 1DrFortuneMBezzla7

    This Juncker thing. Anyone know if it was a success or a disaster?

    All the Westminster Village expert have had a different version of events. Mind you, they have to, otherwise their brand is tarnished. If two commentators agree, their fee splits in half.

    But I’ve got an idea for dealing with this Juncker man.

    You know how in Judo you use your opponents momentum to throw him off balance. Why don’t we encourage the boozing habits of the Juncker Man? That way we can destroy him. Booze is his weakness. We need someone to go out to Luxembourg and keep offering him more Cognac.

    Dudgeon and impotent rage only makes this monster stronger

    I’m not convinced Rod Liddle or any of the other commentators have got a clue. If this was a Steven King film, they’d either go running for cover or get killed early on in the story.

    We need to confront The Juncker Man ourselves.

  • beenzrgud

    I wonder if Cameron has returned the dagger that was firmly embedded in his back. Merkel is sure to want to use it again soon !

  • Wessex Man

    I feel so proud that my party, ‘the loons, nutters and fruitcakes’ so stupidly described by Cameron, the BBC and other media have been proved to by right all along. This Federal Europe that is beginning to resemble the Police State we always said it was and were so quickly dismissed by the establishment is now proving itself to a wider audience.

    We need to get out now, not by 2017 it will be near ruin at that time and we don’t need to be there!

    • Max07

      I remember reading somewhere or other that Ted Heath said he always knew that the EU was a federalist project. Presumably he just ‘forgot’ to tell the little people, who thought they were voting for a common market but not everything else that came with it. It seems to me that politicians ‘forget’ to tell the little people rather a lot of things, on the basis that their tiny brains can’t cope.

      • Wessex Man

        You are correct and then he laughed about years later.

    • Kitty MLB

      Oh my dearest deluded creature. You feel so proud of being
      known by all those name.So does Nigel Farage, he mentions
      them always for the sympathy vote..that will fade very quickly when the realities of electing a government become
      a reality..they’ll give you a hug though.

      • Wessex Man

        We take it as a badge of honour that this creature Cameron, who loves to insult, smear, and belittle has come the cropper that was long overdue and well deserved has been shown to be totally out of his lying depth. It’s a shame that it was on losing to Merkal but good to see him squirm. his squalid little act of being in control has now shown to be a fairytale dear.

        • Kitty MLB

          Darling, at the end of the days its all about, a seat , a seat
          my kingdom for a seat. Cameron hasn’t come a cropper.
          You just want him to fail because he’s not a Kipper.
          The only fairytale you know is about the boy who wanted to
          be king, and you know I am right sweetie.

          • William_Brown

            Oooooh. I just want to respond to your comment so that you’ll call me darling, or sweetie….I’m growing jealous of Wessex Man and all the attention you give him. *sigh*

            • Wessex Man

              She does seem to have a certain affection for me I have that effect on all women except dear Claire Perry, who got a little hot under the collar when I asked her some searching questions at a Tory Open Meeting here in Wiltshire.

              Going back to Kitty’s point, I don’t want him to fail on Europe, he will have to show his real hand soon and when he does the votes will flood in for UKip, who are the only Party really honest about this EU Empire.

              • Kitty MLB

                What !!!! its mindboggling how you came to that conclusion?
                vanity, vanity and vanity.
                Oh and dearest, the votes depend on such as the NHS, the economy, education etc etc . And all is coming to plan.

      • Fred Smith

        That jibe was a spectacular and completely unnecessary own goal by Cameron.

        His entire tack of trying to broaden support by appealing to a lot of liberal-lefties, who were never ever going to support anything called the Conservative Party, has been a huge misjudgement.

  • HookesLaw

    Slower speed presumably means waiting until we have elected a Labour government. I for one am not bemused by Mr Liddle’s brand jaundiced sarcasm.

    • Wessex Man

      I thought that you were always bemused.

  • Amir
  • Adrian Drummond

    Rod, I’m a big fan of yours but I find it hard to reconcile your current thinking on the EU with the one you took as editor of the BBC Today program many years ago. Do you not regret inviting arch-federalist, such as Leon Brittan, Heseltine et al, onto the show to ridicule any form of opposition?

    • global city

      Good question… lefties, even old/ex lefties have this absolute faith in their absolute beliefs, even as they change.

      How will Rod explain his hate?

      • Wessex Man

        maybe like all the others coming to UKip in their droves, he has seen the error of his ways from many years ago.

    • William_Brown

      Perhaps Rod, like many more, is not prepared to just take a position and allow it to inform every decision, or every political thought. Bland left/right absolutism has brought the country to its knees. Enough already – we should allow ourselves to change our minds in the light of new evidence, or simply our evolving, political thought process.

  • dado_trunking

    For a second time now in six months will we note that Mum of the European Nation Merkel outsmarted Schoolboy Dave with comical certainty.
    Dave does the dirty work for his mum, he is a good boy, isn’t he. First with regards to a budget that would just not excite, now he proved to mum and the world what a great democrats our Northern Alliance family is, no bad sentiments after the majority decision is taken at the dinner table. Oh how he must love his dear mummy.

    • Inverted Meniscus

      Still spouting unintelligible socialist nutter gibberish with the rest of your sock puppets laddie.

  • global city

    If there was ANY merit in this better together in a big bad world meme then similar arrangements would be being built across the globe, but they’re not!

    The whole notion of regional blocs is not only silly and obsolete, they are actually dangerous. See Ukraine.

    ‘When blocs collide’ could be more than a snappy title for some TV programme. It may include nuclear weapons.

    • Andy

      I would agree. If it was a loose trading group it would be different. But what the Continental Europeans are seeking to do is create a military armed ‘bloc’ and as you say that is dangerous and destabilising. It is just as much a threat to the Kremlin as it is to us.

      • global city

        At the very least serious commentators should work through the consequences of the common foreign policy voice and a ‘European outlook’, which has always been profoundly different to that of Britain.

      • HookesLaw

        You are a farcical twit.

        • Andy

          You are a Fascist moron. Sod off. Scum bag.

  • Shazza

    Looks like the Fourth Reich is well and truly established.

    • Andy

      Indeed. Now click heels and raise right arm. And it is Heil Merkel !!

    • Fred Smith

      Not really. It’s a big, bumbling bloc which looks strong on paper and can get itself into trouble, as with Ukraine, but is weak and will crumple. It can mess incompetently and cause problems.

  • London Calling

    Bring it on. Bring it on, Bring it on………..:)

  • Kitty MLB

    A sop to poor old Britain, how patronising.
    Regardless of Merkel’s plotting the EU succubus is heading for
    a massive fall. Hopefully we will be free of them before that.

    • DaveTheRave

      I truly hope so…

    • HookesLaw

      its the authors words it is he who is doing the patronising.

  • Inverted Meniscus

    It becomes clearer, almost by the day, that the rest of Europe regards the UK and our childish affection for democracy, freedom of speech, control of our borders and currency etc with utter contempt. Their only interest in the UK is our cheque book as second largest contributor to this corrupt, incestuous sinkhole. Cameron must find the courage to press for a referendum and then we can laugh at that scumbag Merkel when she finds herself picking up the entire bill for this loathsome anti-democratic nest of vermin.

    • Andy

      That b*tch Merkel stabbed Cameron in the back. We should be as awkward and difficult as possible, refuse to apply EU directives where they run contrary to the UK national interest, and eventually leave this Fascist entity.

      • Daidragon

        You’ve got the first part wrong. Cameron is the bitch. Merkel’s bitch.

        • Hamburger

          It does not look like that from here.

          • Andy

            Nor here. The bitch Merkel lied. That’s all we need to know.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          You socialist nutters really are desperate aren’t you laddie.

          • Daidragon

            What other sensible conclusion can we take from the Juncker election? Cameron has no authority or credibility in Europe. He won’t be able to renegotiate anything important and he won’t advocate leaving the EU. He’s just a fraud.

            • Inverted Meniscus

              At least he tried. That preposterous idiot Miliband would have just gone along with he appointment whilst claiming that he was building alliances in Europe. Scum like Miliband and the Fascist Labour Party would happily sell what remains of our democracy to the dead hand socialists of Europe. Europe is sinking into insignificance under the burden of socialist welfare policies and it’s hatred of wealth creation. Putting our hopes in the hands of unprincipled scum like Miliband is something we should gratefully avoid.

              • Daidragon

                At least he tried. Dear me. Talked himself up pre match but came home with his tail between his legs. As usual. The Roy Hodgson of British politics.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  You socialist nutters really are a desperate group.

            • HookesLaw

              The reality is that Juncker has said he want to accommodate Britain
              http://juncker.epp.eu/my-priorities

              ‘the other EU countries will have to accept that the UK will never participate in the euro, even if we may regret this. We have to accept that the UK will not become a member of the Schengen area. And I am also ready to accept that the UK will stay outside new EU institutions such as the European Public Prosecutor’s Office, meant to improve the fight against fraud in the EU, but clearly rejected by the House of Commons and the House of Lords. We have to respect such clear positions of the British Parliament, based on the British “opt out” Protocol. David Cameron has recently written down a number of further key demands in an article published in the Daily Telegraph. As Commission President, I will be ready to talk to him about these demands in a fair and reasonable manner.’

              There is no evidence to suggest that we cannot negotiate with the EU. What is likely is we will not be able to stop the EU from its closer integration. Its a moot point if in the long run this will be a good or bad thing for us.

              • Daidragon

                Demands? So Dave basically gives an account of the existing UK position (In EU, out of Euro, veto, no further integration) and insists it must never change. The EU agrees. Dave then dresses this up as a renegotiation and campaigns hard to stay in. Not that easily fooled are you?

              • Smithersjones2013

                I’m sure we can negotiate with the EU for the next 100 years but that doesn’t mean they are going to agree to return one piece of sovereignty to this country

                Merkel has told us how it is. Someone (I wonder who?) has indicated to her that the UK will join the rest of Europe in ever closer union one day. Its just going to take some more time.

                In other words ‘somebody’ is betraying the people of this country……

                • Steve Lloyd

                  Here’s some clues http://tinyurl.com/lcs72tf Ministers are forced to rubber stamp EU rules against their will, says former adviser Dominic Cummings

              • sfin

                There is a generation – some of them still alive – who sacrificed a great deal to prevent a German domination of Europe. I, as a now, retired soldier, have walked the lines of white crosses in Normandy and remembered their sacrifice. Young men – some not out of their teens – who gave their all for their country, not their continent.

                That craven federalists, like our post war political class, should have caved in so dramatically is a stain on our history – one which, not even a political titan like Margaret Thatcher could erase.

                I’ve tried to debate with people like you HookesLaw but I no longer understand, or even pretend to want to understand you and your anti democratic point of view – I’m too tired – it is easier to fight you instead. Which I am quite happy to do until I join the lines of those patriots who gave their lives so that you could give away that which they left you.

                Cheers!

                • Max07

                  Interesting post, Sfin, but it was of course the sainted Margaret Thatcher who signed the Maastricht Treaty. All that stuff about handbagging the EU and making it give us back our money … basically, the EU conceded a few quid but got the bigger prize. Like giving a kid sweeties so you can bundle it into your car.

                • Tim

                  er, I think you’ll find John Major signed that.

                  MT signed the Single Europe Act 1986.

                • Max07

                  I stand corrected. Thank you Tim.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Margaret Thatcher was indeed sainted she
                  with Gorbachev and Reagan saved the world
                  from communusm and Margaret Thatcher rescued us from the feral unions. As well as changing us from the sick man of Europe into
                  a world power.So some respect please.

                • Max07

                  She signed the Single European Act in 1986 (not Maastricht, thanks Tim for the correction) and she destroyed industry in this country, preferring to replace manufacturing with nice, clean service jobs. Like banking.

                • Neil Saunders

                  With brilliantly incisive political analysis like that, you go straight to the bottom of the class.

                • Bobby Morton

                  at last, some sense.

                • Steve Lloyd

                  Major signed Maastricht. This is what Maggie had to say about it.

                  Margaret Thatcher declared in a speech in the House of Lords that she “could never have signed that Treaty” and that it was “a recipe for national suicide”. Right again.

                  Conservatives signed them all, except Lisbon. As an ex Tory, now UKIP. I take comfort in the fact that Faux-servatives will never again win an election.

                • Max07

                  But, as TIm has already pointed out, she DID sign the Single European Act 1986. Jacques Delors summarised its objectives as follows:

                  “The Single Act means, in a few words, the commitment of implementing simultaneously the great market without frontiers, more economic and social cohesion, an European research and technology policy, the strengthening of the European Monetary System, the beginning of an European social area and significant actions in environment”

                  More social cohesion. The beginning of a European ‘social area’. I’m afraid that, like many politicians, Maggie was bigger on talk than action.

                • Andy

                  Commonwealth War Grave Commission cemeteries don’t have ‘lines of white crosses’. They have a standard pattern white Portland stone grave stone. Cemeteries all (to my knowledge) have a Cross of Sacrifice, which comes in two styles, one designed by Sir Reginald Blomfield and the other by Sir Edwin Lutyens. Some also have a Great Stone of Remembrance designed by Lutyens. Having visited a number of these cemeteries and walked amongst the stones, seen the rows and rows of stones with the inscription ‘Known unto God’ they are the saddest places on earth.

                  However, pedantry aside, you have a good point. The EU is gradually destroying democracy across Europe and ushering in a new age of tyranny and oppression.

                • AtMyDeskToday

                  “The EU is gradually destroying democracy across Europe and ushering in a new age of tyranny and oppression.”

                  I spend a lot of time in Germany and it’s interesting that in every day life one does not get that impression at all. Just the opposite in fact, a thriving, healthy, strong democracy. With none of the hangers-on that (house of Lords etc) that thrive in our “democracy”.

                • Andy

                  I didn’t mention Germany. I will mention Greece where the elected Government was basically overthrown by the EU. And how we organise our State, one of the oldest in Europe, is our affair. Certainly none of the bloody Germans business.

                • AtMyDeskToday

                  “The EU is gradually destroying democracy across Europe and ushering in a new age of tyranny and oppression.”

                  Last time I looked Germany is in Europe, and I imagine they are not in the least interested how we organise our state. As to the Greeks, the free-loaders deserve everything they get.

                • Andy

                  So it’s ok for the Germans to orchestrate the overthrow of an elected government in Greece because they and you regard Greeks as ‘free-loaders [who] deserve everything they get’. And yet it was the mad delusions of so many who advocated the Euro (probably you included) who created the problems in the first place.

                • AtMyDeskToday

                  “(probably you included) ”

                  Wild accusations are usually the sign of delusions. Stick to the facts. You clearly know nothing about democracy in Europe.

                • Andy

                  Ah so you were a cheer leader for the damn Euro then ! That evil project is driving Europe to war. And the EU has nothing to do with ‘democracy’ and everything to do with Fascism. Look ye well on it.

                • AtMyDeskToday

                  “Ah so you were a cheer leader for the damn Euro then”

                  Is this irony or are you drunk?

              • Wessex Man

                Stop it Hooky, you must realise by now, even with your rose tinted glasses that the EU is now turning into the EUSSR, Just as with referendums that didn’t agree with the Soviet plan were made to run again until they did so too the massive vote against the EU this year is being ignored by the unelected Commissioners who really run the EU.

                We need to get out now before the disasterous end drags us in!

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  I don’t think he is you know.

              • AtMyDeskToday

                Having read through that site (Junckers position), I’m wondering what all the fuss has been about.

                • Wessex Man

                  Take a look at the State opening of the European Parliament then come back to us.

            • 2trueblue

              If you can call it an election. Cameron is not the fraud, the set up is.

              • Wessex Man

                Agree the set up is a fraud but so is Cameron.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        No chance for support from the Fascist Labour Party on that score.

        • Andy

          The EU is a Fascist construct so the Fascist Labour Party loves it.

        • Daidragon

          The Labour party has always fought fascism. Your Fox news like attempt to rewrite history is as silly as it is pathetic.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            And yet Labour is the party which wants to control every last aspect of our lives, tax us to death and criminalise our every activity with ‘hate laws’ etc. Sounds like Fascism to me but then socialist nutters like you see nothing wrong with controlling other people’s lives.

          • Fred Smith

            I don’t know so much. Fascism isn’t all about dressing up and uniforms and finding some group to be nasty to. Amongst other things it’s a sort of state controlled capitalism where big corporations are part of the state. You can make a fair case that Nu Labour went in for that in a big way and the present lot are hardly much different.

            The Labour Party these days is a very different thing to the Labour Party before it dropped Clause 4.

      • 2trueblue

        Just do not buy anything that is made in Germany. If we did that alone we would be helping ourselves.

      • Fred Smith

        Cameron thought it was in the bag that Juncker wouldn’t be nominated and he could put on a show of opposing Juncker entirely for our benefit. Then because of Merkel, this essentially dishonest display came off the rails and he was with the choice of backing down or pressing on in the hope that what he was doing could be sold as taking a stand on principle and standing up for Britain in the EU. Some people seem to have bought this.

        The problem with “being as awkward and difficult as possible” is that Westminster has deliberately made itself part of the EU system of government. It really wants to go along with the whole deal and has no intention of being awkward, but has an increasingly discontented populace to sucker along, which it’s always done its best to from the days of Wilson and Heath.

        • Andy

          Your view might be correct. Or what could have happened is that Drunker was the person no one wanted and Merkel was only too happy for someone else to consolidate opposition to him, but giving support. Merkel then, because of comment in the German press and her coalition partners, did an about turn. And what is particularly wicked and evil of her is she then actively peeled away those countries who supported the British view – the Swedes and the Dutch in particular – until Cameron was in effect alone. In other words she decided that Drunker would get the job and in typical German fashion what she wanted she got. In doing so she has given away the power of the Council of Ministers, the heads of government, to appoint the Commission President to the EU Parliament. This is contrary to the treaties.

          You are right that Westminster has become part of the EU system, but the balance of powers at Westminster is changing. Because the British people have become so Eurosceptic the political class can no longer ignore that mood and while it hasn’t gone far enough to reflect that mood it has shifted and will shift further with more pressure.

          • Fred Smith

            I certainly don’t believe that without general pressure from UKIP, Cameron would have made a song and dance about Juncker as he has. He might have mentioned quietly to other EU leaders that he didn’t think the man was suitable but there wouldn’t have been a campaign. It’s hardly as if Juncker is fundamentally different in outlook to any other euro-bod likely to get the job.

            The President of the Commission is in no position to help with fundamental changes to the EU anyway. Possibly the hope was there’d be someone less outspoken and more likely to help arrange a bit of secondary legislation which Cameron could use to do a Wilson.

            We’ve been through this business of the balance of power with regards to the Commission shifting from the Council to the EP before. This was a process which started with the Maastricht Treaty and is reaching a logical conclusion as the EP has matured. I can’t see that it exactly involves a breach of the treaties. The Council could re-assert itself and change things back, but shows no signs of so doing, so we can take it that it’s more or less happy with things as they’ve evolved.

            Cameron’s position in this seemed to evolve. Firstly he was against Juncker as an arch-federalist, then he was against Juncker in principle, although the principle was abandoned 20 years ago, then we had a red-top campaign in the UK painting Juncker as a brandy-swilling degenerate – which Cameron didn’t necessarily have anything to do with but didn’t disown.

            There’s a bit more to UK government than Westminster. There’s also the Civil Service, local government, QUANGOs etc all of which are more or less inclined towards the EU as a source of make work and expansion.

      • post_x_it

        The irony is that most of the other member states have by all accounts always been pretty ruthless in refusing to apply EU directives, ECHR judgments etc. that didn’t suit them. The UK is the only miserable mug of a country that follows every rule down to the last detail (and then moans about it).

    • global city

      But the little cabal at the top of our own elite are on the supranationalist side.

    • Shazza

      Unfortunately those things that you mention that we have a ‘childish affection for’ no longer exist.

      Democracy – 80% of our laws emanate from Brussels already. I won’t even go into the Human Rights issue and how it impacts on our own laws.
      Freedom of Speech – Between Leveson and the ‘hate speech’ laws it no longer exists. Check out the guidelines laid down by the NUJ when reporting on minorities, etc.
      Control of our borders – what control? Even if we were to regain control it is far too late to stop the islamic/3rd world wannabe caliphate from not realising their ambition.
      Currency – I grant you that.

      Unfortunately although I believe Cameron will give us the referendum in 2017 but the BBC/MSM/Politicians will mount a full on campaign to maintain our membership and the brainwashed electorate will be frightened witless by their scaremongering.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Agreed Shazza but we have to try.

        • Shazza

          Yup. The consolation prize will be ‘I told you so – at least we tried’. Sadly.

          • Bobby Morton

            we don’t want that

      • HookesLaw

        80% of laws do not emanate from Brussels.
        ‘Yet, studies attempting to measure the real impact of EU legislation on national laws revealed a very different picture.
        In an article on the London School of Economics’ EUROPP Blog, Professor Annette Elisabeth Toeller writes that “the striking finding is that most of these studies showed rather low shares of Europeanized
        national legislation: 15.5 per cent for the UK, 14 per cent for Denmark, 10.6 per cent for Austria, between 3 and 27 per cent for France,
        between 1 and 24 per cent for Finland, yet 39.1 per cent for Germany.”‘

        ‘a 2010 paper by the UK House of Commons writes that “data suggest that from 1997 to 2009 6.8% of primary legislation (Statutes) and 14.1% of secondary legislation (Statutory Instruments) had a role in implementing EU obligations, although the degree of involvement varied from passing reference to explicit implementation.”‘

        https://factcheckeu.org/factchecks/show/162/viviane-reding

        Being charitable I suppose we should blame you for believing what thick and probably bigoted journalists write, but otherwise, keep believing your own propaganda if you want – stop inflicting it on the rest of us.

        It does cross my mind that all the anti EU hysteria is indeed based on thick ignorance of the truth, but I doubt that the hysterics are capable of thinking for themselves. The EU does deserve criticism of course but I find this is best done based on the facts.

        • Lady Magdalene

          Kommissar Reding was keen to brag that the EU makes 75% of our laws. Was she lying?

        • Tim

          Morning Nick

        • Damaris Tighe

          15.5% is 15.5% too much.

        • AtMyDeskToday

          “The EU does deserve criticism of course but I find this is best done based on the facts.”

          Very well summarised. Although I’ve found over time that quoting hard, irrefutable facts in the DT or Speccy blogs has little impact on the mindset of those many posters convinced of their own grasp of reality.

        • Bobby Morton

          absolute crap.- no doubt I am ‘thick’ because I am not a moronic left wing fool.

      • Bobby Morton

        Common sense will prevail Shazza- even the stupid brainwashed moron British public will see through the bullshit. The choice is quite simple. A free democratic state with all its faults or a nasty bureaucracy run by free loading money grubbing freaks. Please stupid British public wake up.

    • you_kid

      fourth largest, behind ITALY

    • DougS

      You nailed it – an excellent summary.

      What sort of idiot borrows £20bn a year to give to a group people who hate us?

      The Europhiles talk about staying in the club and fighting for reform. If you’ve got a fight on your hands, you’re in the wrong club!

  • DaveTheRave

    Let’s stop messing about.
    Say it how it is.
    If England stays in the EU our future absorption into the USE abomination is assured.
    England’s only choice is to leave… quickly.
    Be mindful next May.
    In the mean time we must do everything to get our views across.

    • global city

      ALL eurosceptics, across the board should determine a core strategy of half a dozen points. They do not have to join each other’s groups and such to do this.

      March separately, strike together – that’s the mantra they should all work to.

      • DaveTheRave

        I concur absolutely! Let’s make it so!

    • AtMyDeskToday

      When “England” leaves, can the rest of the UK stay in?

      • Wessex Man

        why are you worried, you will already have left the UK and applying to join the EU by then.

      • DaveTheRave

        Yes, of course. The ‘rest of the UK’ should have that choice.
        That is why I make the distinction.
        It isn’t clear whether Scotland will be independent post 2014 (though I hope it votes firmly ‘Yes’), but I think as soon as the devolution process began in 1999 it has made the likelihood of the break up of the United Kingdom of GB and NI a virtually certainty.
        Therefore I can only speak for the wishes of my own country, which is England, despite the fact we don’t have a de jure parliament at the moment.

  • Fergus Pickering

    But by that time, with a bit of luck, the EU will have collapsed under the weight of its own bureaucracy.

  • artemis in france

    The EU is sickening. All thèse horrible smug bureaucrats who don’t give a damn about the ordinary folk of their ever-expanding empire. Britain’s eventual exit could liberate the other nations. Germany would end up footing the bill for everyone else without the help of Britain. See how Merkel likes that. Farage may have his failings, but at least the man speaks the truth about the corruption and extreme hubris in Brussels and Strasbourg and would act immediately if hé had the chance. Cameron is pathetic. 2017 is a long time to wait, Rod.

    • Ian Walker

      “…horrible smug bureaucrats who don’t give a damn about the ordinary folk of their ever-expanding empire.”

      Or just ‘bureaucrats’ will do.

    • DaveTheRave

      I concur. Very well said indeed.

    • tjamesjones

      farage can say what he likes, he’s never going to need to act on it. Not sure that counts for much.

      • Kitty MLB

        Indeed.Anyone can say as they wish, especially
        when they have no real authority and responsibility.
        They say the irrelavance of opposition is a very popular place but for some who don’t even have a
        seat yet, they are living in a fools paradise.

        • fathomwest

          I recall people like you, Kitty, saying exactly the same about the LIB DIMS. It is not beyond reason that UKIP will win up to sixteen seats, possibly even more. They along with the Ulster contingent- who hold similar views on the EU as UKIP- could hold the balance of power. Thus Farage would have real authority and responsibility.
          Just remember that whilst you attempt to ridicule Farage he has dominated the debate, won the EU argument and put Cameron in the slot he finds himself. Anyone who believes that Cameron will hold an IN/OUT referendum must believe in Fairies at the bottom of the garden.
          Personally I view Merkel as a Communist who is nearer Putin than Cameron. The Germans have never given up hope of their dream of a European Super State and Merkel could not give a damn for any country other than Germany. So we either lie on our backs and allow this awful woman to control, or we get a Prime Minister who will stand up for English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish peoples first and foremost. That is why I am of the view that we need another woman to put Mrs Merkel in her place. Bring on Mrs May!

          • Wessex Man

            I was reading your post and thinking that this person is talking a lot of sense, then alas I got to the last sentence.

            • John Clegg

              Me too. I agreed with everything that “fathomwest” said, (why, oh why, can’t people have the courage to use their own name???) in fact I was beginning to feel quite excited but then I got to the last 4 words and felt ill.

              BTW has anybody met her, she’s a ghastly woman – the Tories are still trying to recover from her comment about them being the “nasty party”.

              • fathomwest

                But, John, it is my name!

                • John Clegg

                  Oh yes, well sorry begrudgingly then!!

            • Steve Lloyd

              I agree, half a tick.up.

              • fathomwest

                Thank you Steve.

            • fathomwest

              I recall people like you, Wessex Man, saying just the same about Baroness Thatcher.

              • Wessex Man

                Yes I did, you seem to think that Maggie didn’t campaign for an exit of the EEC but to keep us in!

                She was a lion of a Prime Minister but she had her faults and in the 1970s was all for the EEC.

          • Wessex Man

            There’s a very good piece about the future of the EU at Breitart, London showing the soldiers of Eurocorps/Eurokorps opening the new session of the EU Parliament.

            Kitty and her apologists can witter on all they like this is the future of the European Union Empire.

          • global city

            UKIP are the only party represented in ALL areas of the United Kingdom

        • Wessex Man

          It’s strange isn’t it that your party in public keep the same old mantra going about Ukip, yet privately and we know this because we have seen Tory briefing notes your party are sure that we, Ukip will pick up at least 18 seats at the GE next year and that the Lib/dums will be wiped out.

          • Kitty MLB

            Yes, we take the same amount of notice of the monster raving
            loony party. We don’t just hand out seats like sweeties dearest.
            Besides, where are you going to find 17 other Nigel’s.
            That is the point really, people like him as a nice chap but just
            him and he’s very charming.

            • Bobby Morton

              Are you talking about Nick the Flying Brick?

        • Bobby Morton

          and?- Kitty you are a dumbarse. Drunk in your Winnibago most nights I expect- trailer girl!

    • global city

      That’s exactly what it is, it is also the motivation for the Foreign Office mandarins. Membership retains their options for jobs involved in managing external affairs after the loss of Empire. Our whole democracy and system of law is being jettisoned so that a small elite can retain their position (though fast dwindling influence) around ‘the big table’.

      Talk about the 1%… with regards to the EU everyone in the UK’s birthright has been sold to retain the benefits of the .00000001%

    • 2trueblue

      We could all not buy anything that comes from Germany. Lets all look at the labels before buying.

      • post_x_it

        What good would that achieve? We’d only be shooting ourselves in the foot. Trade is the only good bit about the EU, so why take aim at that?

        • 2trueblue

          Why would not buying German goods be shooting ourselves in the foot? We have a massive deficit and thus not buying their goods would contribute less to our deficit.
          We continually get the ‘big lie’ quoted at us that we export 50% of our goods to the EU. This is untrue. 50% of our goods go to Rotterdam and and from there a large proportion are exported to US etc.

          • post_x_it

            It depends what you propose to substitute the German imports with. If we switch to (often inferior) imports from elsewhere then it won’t change our trade deficit. If we simply deprive ourselves then we’re indeed shooting ourselves in the foot. It would not just hurt British consumers but also British industry which often depends on machinery made in Germany.

            • 2trueblue

              I am simply talking on a purely household goods, washing machines etc. For your information one of the best selling dishwasher is made in Turkey. Whilst not part of the EU they have no trouble selling within the EU!

              • Bobby Morton

                so what?

                • 2trueblue

                  Really mature reply.

                • Bobby Morton

                  and?

              • Aldabaran

                Turkey has had a customs union with the EU since 1996. From that point of view they are part of the EU.

  • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

    A sop to the UK electorate more like !

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