Coffee House

Will voters feel Cameron’s confidence about European reform?

11 May 2014

11:13 AM

11 May 2014

11:13 AM

Why is David Cameron so confident that he’ll get what he wants from his renegotiation of Britain’s relationship with Europe? Today on the Andrew Marr Show he managed to advocate Britain voting ‘yes’ in the 2017 referendum before he’s even started changing the terms of the membership voters would be backing. His reasoning for this was firstly that ‘I’m someone who has a very positive, optimistic plan for this country’ (a convenient contrast with Ukip), and secondly because he has a good track record of getting what he wants in Europe.

One of the achievements that the Prime Minister always cites when he talks about his ability to achieve the changes he wants is the EU Budget cut. This always causes a little bit of spluttering in eurosceptic quarters, as the Prime Minister seems to have conveniently forgotten that it was a rebellion in the Commons that he and the whips got very aerated about that gave him the ‘mandate’ in the negotiations to get what he wanted.

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This rather undermines his argument that voters should back the optimistic party: if one of his most surprising achievements was partly because Parliament sent a tougher signal than he would have wanted, then why shouldn’t Conservative eurosceptics push him further and scare EU leaders by threatening Brexit, and why shouldn’t natural Conservative voters ‘help’ the Prime Minister by backing Ukip and giving eurocrats the heebie-jeebies at the thought of a party that is unequivocally ‘out’ gaining further traction?

This is the argument that MPs who are campaigning on the doorstep hear over and over again from their own voters. ‘They think it’ll help Cameron for them to vote Ukip because even though they support what he’s doing and are pretty happy with it, they want to show the EU that they’re serious about getting reform,’ says one MP after a round of canvassing.

But while Cameron argued that ‘we are all convinced that it is possible to achieve these changes’, he wasn’t confident enough to give a straight answer on whether he would give his party a free vote in the referendum.

As for what it is that he does want from his renegotiation that he’s so confident about, the Prime Minister didn’t add anything particularly surprising to his sketchy shopping list. But it’s worth setting out what that shopping list is from today’s interview:

– Ever-closer union will not apply to Britain. This will require treaty change, the Prime Minister said.
– Reform of freedom of movement and transitional controls so that EU citizens do not have freedom to move to get a job until their country’s income per capita is at a certain level. And he could oppose further enlargement until these reforms were secured.


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Show comments
  • Ken442

    What does renegotiation matter anyway when Cameron says the following?

    “In an interview with the Spanish El Pais
    with the headline quote from Cameron; “The best solution for the UK is to stay
    in a reformed EU”, he was asked the following (via Google translate):

    In case of a Yes victory in the referendum that will organize on leaving the EU, would you be willing to withdraw from the Union?
    And Cameron’s response:

    I would not. (No me gustaría)”

  • http://batman-news.com The Commentator

    I’m afraid the Tories really are deluding themselves. I’ve voted Tory in every election since 1979 including the general election of 2010. Mr Cameron has now persuaded me never to vote Tory ever again. He knows damn well there will be no re-negotiation of our membership of the EU, therefore he is an unprincipled liar.

  • https://mikestallard.virtualgallery.com/ Mike Stallard

    I, a natural Conservative, stopped reading Mr Cameron’s Manifesto Pledges when I came to the bit about reforming the CAP. God knows, it was pretty dire up to there too.
    Has the man not listened to one word that Guy Verhofstadt, M. Barroso, President van Rompuy and Mme Reding have been saying? Or watched the faces of the MEPs when Nigel Farage speaks?

  • Smithersjones2013

    I’m beginning to wonder if the 10th of May is the European alternative to April Fools Day. First we have the ridiculous Fraser nelson defending and attempting to promote that absurd and farcical circus freakshow called Eurovision and then we get dear old Dave make the most implausible and unbelievable claims about his ability to deliver on the EU.

    Nothing Cameron offers on the EU or his journey to where we are stacks up. This referendum was the result of intense pressure by both his own backbenches and those who motivated them into action by supporting UKIP. None of it was of Cameron’s choosing. That he blathers on with these delusionasl fantasies of what he claims he can deliver despite being ridiculed by Brussels and repeatedly told by them he will not get anything but the most superficial reforms only demonstrates how cynically dishonest and contemptuous of the British electorate he is.

    Cameron will resign not because he cannot deliver the referendum per se but because the British electorate will kick him out and how ironic it will be that it could well be the Scots who swing it for Labour? That would surely be an irony too far regarding granting and winning of constitutional referendums.

  • Bellevue

    Sorry if about a million people have already mentioned this…….. but the constant reference to Cameron ‘veto-ing an EU treaty’ is bollocks. What treaty? Which treaty EXACTLY did he veto?
    And yet, again and again (along with the ‘cutting the EU budget’) this is shown as Cameron being tough and able to change the EU.
    So, more bollocks……. You cannto believe a word these people say.

  • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

  • Richard N

    The EU Quisling Cameron’s list of targets for his supposed ‘renegotiations’ with his masters in Germany and the EU is totally meaningless.

    Normally, that would do the job for Cameron’s crony capitalist, EU puppet regime. But not this time. He cannot possibly be re-elected without pulling a large chunk of UKIP supporters to vote Tory. And there is no way that UKIP supporters will be remotely attracted to vote Tory with this totally meaningless list of his renegotiation targets.

    UKIP is now polling between 29% – 38% for the EU elections – with 60% of those people saying they will definitely vote for UKIP in the next General Election.

    UKIP is now polling 20% for the Westminster polls. Contrary to liblabcon’s fond beliefs, UKIP is going to continue to rise and rise right up to the next election. I would predict at least a 25% share of the vote in the next GE for UKIP.

    And that’s in a poisonous atmosphere where the Political Correctness fascists, determined to shout down and intimidate anyone opposing the EU’s top priority of destroying all European nation states with mass immigration with shrieks of ‘racist!’.

    So you can be sure that a good number of people questioned in polls, who are going to vote UKIP, did not say that to the pollsters.

    Cameron says he ‘gets it’ – yet with 80% of Britons saying in polls they want immigration slashed, he – and his fellow EU puppet Milliband – are not even claiming they’re going to do anything about this expressed top-priority demand of 80% of the British people!

    Why? Because their masters in the EU know that only by destroying the nation states of Europe, and a sense of national identity, can the EU survive. So Cameron and Milliband, who are only in their positions thanks to the EU arranging that, are not allowed to do anything at all about mass-immigration, which is the EU’s weapon of destroying the biggest threat to the EU’s existence.

    Traitors all. 200 years ago, Cameron and Milliband would have been hung for what they and their predecessors are doing to Britain.

    • The_Missing_Think

      100% agreed.

      Some of the bookies are now limiting bets on UKIP getting the most seats in the 2015 GE, to a £5 bet. They could loose a fotune, if very unexepected events suddenly frighten the horses during the next year.

  • Jabez Foodbotham

    Would you buy a used referendum promise from this man?

  • London Calling

    An ever closer union? how close is too close? where is this all leading? the sea divides us, isn’t that enough to take a step backwards with one foot in and one foot out, its the only way it will ever work in my view.We cannot and I repeat, we cannot be controlled by the dream of the European Union, it just doesn’t work in a democracy and go against everything we stand for……:(

  • Denis_Cooper

    “Ever-closer union will not apply to Britain. This will require treaty change, the Prime Minister said.”

    Right, he should stick with that, and not listen to any French lawyer suggesting that a “political declaration” may be good enough, as reported in the FT this week.

    Here are his draft proposals for how Cameron could avoid asking for treaty change:

    http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/4bd43874-d474-11e3-bf4e-00144feabdc0.pdf

    “7. THE CONCEPT OF « EVER CLOSER UNION »

    It is true that « the process of creating an ever closer union (with a small « u ») among the peoples (not the States) of Europe » is enshrined in the Treaty, both in
    its Preamble and in art 1. A request to delete this would probably be opposed. But
    this political concept does not mean that the aim is to establish a Federal Union among the member States. Actually, the Treaty obliges the EU to respect the history, culture and traditions of the peoples of Europe (Preamble and art 3(3) and to respect the national identities of the member States, their fundamental structures, political and constitutional, as well as their essential State functions (art 4(2)). Maybe a political Declaration, recalling that, would help.”

  • ButcombeMan

    I liked Marr’s point about keeping our “foot on Cameron’s neck”.

    I intend to

    I noticed he ducked the crunch questions. Not clever and an insult to the electorate on something so important.

  • Denis_Cooper

    Unbelievable, does he think we are complete idiots?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10822938/David-Cameron-gives-cast-iron-guarantee-over-EU-referendum.html

    “David Cameron has given a “cast iron” guarantee that he will not stand as Prime Minister unless he can secure a referendum on the European Union in 2017.”

  • Ricky Strong

    One only needs to look at how the EU dealt with the No votes against the Lisbon Treaty. Barroso, Schulz, Van-Rompuy et al have one vision for the EU and if Cameron’s reforms impede upon that vision they will be quickly shot down. We are talking about an entity that removes democratically elected leaders in order to achieve its aims – that so many are either blind to this or just ignorant of it alarms me.

    • sadmaninagame

      British exceptionalism when it comes to Europe isn’t new and Barroso himself recently said that the EU should cater to British differences.

      “But for historical, geopolitical and economic reasons, the case of the UK may be seen as a special one”

      • Denis_Cooper

        And he went on to say that nonetheless the rest of Europe must be forced into a federation, whether or not its peoples wanted that. Then they can come and sort us out later. Actually it’s rather like the deal that Hitler was offering in 1940, which Halifax wanted to accept but Churchill rejected.

        • sadmaninagame

          Well that’s up to the rest of Europe. I’m talking about the UK’s position.

          • Denis_Cooper

            You mean the UK’s position when faced with a federal bloc on the continent, with its own armed forces etc etc, even though that may not be what the people in the erstwhile nation states actually wanted even though their political elites did?

          • Ricky Strong

            Is this not the issue UKIP are trying to make. The EU can continue with their push for federalism and we would like to continue trading with Europe but we do not want or indeed need to be a part of that project in order to do so.

            • Denis_Cooper

              It has been pointed out elsewhere that since 1981 the UK itself has imposed the solemn treaty commitment to a process of “ever closer union” on nineteen other countries, even though their populations may not have shared that enthusiasm.

              • Ricky Strong

                I think our political masters push for many things that the electorate do not share enthusiasm for.

                If the UK has been an advocate of ‘ever closer union’ it certainly hasn’t done so with the consent of its people.

                • sadmaninagame

                  As well as doing what the people want, the PM also has to act in the National Interest and that is a lot more complicated than it’s often made out to be. He has red boxes which contain amongst other things intelligence reports. He knows a whole lot more about the situation than any of us do.

                  There’s a reason why so many Prime Ministers, including Margaret Thatcher, Heath, Major, Blair, Brown and now Cameron have been so circumspect when dealing with the EU issue. All of them could have picked up swathes of easy votes by simply taking us out. Why didn’t they?

                  It’s nothing to do with reptile shape-shifters and it’s nothing to do with a pro-EU “cabal” or boys club. It’s simply one of the Hobson’s choices those in power in the UK have had to make. Farage’s appeal is to simplify it to an absurdity. I have no doubt he’d be a huge disappointment to his supporters if he actually had power.

                • Denis_Cooper

                  Oh, so what you’re saying is that we the ignorant plebs can’t possibly understand the issues and form a valid judgement.

                  So why has Cameron just given another “cast-iron” guarantee that if we allow him to continue as Prime Minister then he will allow us our say in 2017?

                • sadmaninagame

                  I didn’t say that, although you might be, I don’t know. What I said was you’re working with incomplete knowledge and that coupled with the malign affects of propaganda, especially from Ukip.

                • Denis_Cooper

                  What, propaganda from UKIP like Farage stating the legal fact that the EU Commission will have the final word on the Pfizer bid for AstraZeneca, so “malign” that the representatives of four pro-EU parties have to try to drown out his words? It’s enough to make any reasonable person sick. We’ve been fed this kind of crap for half a century now, and it’s long overdue for it to come to an end.

                • sadmaninagame

                  It’s up to the shareholders of AstraZeneca whether or not they buy the deal, and they’re mostly “foreign” anyway, so what do you care what the Commission thinks on this issue?

                  Crazy.

                • Denis_Cooper

                  I care that somebody cannot even state a relevant legal fact during a TV debate without four other people joining together to shout him down because they don’t want the public to know the truth. But you’re evidently not bothered by that.

                • Lady Magdalene

                  We are in the EU because the US Committee for Foreign Relations and The Bilderberg Committee want us in.
                  But this is supposed to be a Democracy and if the British people want OUT, then then UK should get out.
                  I don’t see the American people being told they have to join a Supra-National Treaty organisation and put with THEIR Sovereignty being outsourced to a Committee largely made up of hostile foreign representatives. I don’t see them being told by Communist and Socialist Latinos that they must change the American Legal System and Constitution to suit them.
                  I don’t see the Yanks being told that they have no choice but to join a political union which means they have to fork out $billions in subsidies and in return take the flotsam and jetsum of an entire continent and provide them with welfare and housing.
                  Neither should we.

                • sadmaninagame

                  If there’s a general feeling in the corridors of power in the West that the EU is good for Western security compared to what went before it (and who could blame them after many centuries of conflict) then that’s an issue you have to take on.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  “…a general feeling in the corridors of power…” ?

                  “…that’s an issue you have to take on.”

                  Do you actually think this gas is supposed to be making an argument?

                • sadmaninagame

                  Yes I do. You people talk about Bilderberg as if it’s a conspiracy against you. It isn’t.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You think gas is argument. That’s why you’re being ignored, lad.

                • Denis_Cooper

                  Certainly not with their properly informed and direct consent, because they have been deliberately misinformed and have never been asked about it directly. That was why I supported the suggestion that we should have a “mandate referendum”, but with the question simply being whether the British people wished to continue further with the process of “ever closer union” prescribed by the present EU treaties.

                • Ricky Strong

                  I had really hoped for an intelligent discussion on the EU in the build up to the elections. On Question Time this week a chap asked if we had to leave the EU in order the control the flow of immigration from Europe to the UK. Not even Farage stated the basic law: 2004/38/EC “on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States”.

              • Mynydd

                Please remind me who was Prime Minister in 1981 and did I miss the referendum?

                • Denis_Cooper

                  You don’t need any reminders.

          • Alexsandr

            I was talking to someone who lives in Italy. I think the Italians are not that convinced the eu is wonderful any more. If the UK start to make waves the whole thing could unravel.

            • Denis_Cooper

              Which in my view would be in our long term vital national interests and should therefore be strongly encouraged by all possible means. However it has become clear that Cameron, Osborne and Hague do not share my perception of what would be in our long term vital national interests, or if they do they are deliberately working against it.

  • Wessex Man

    Let’s see if this comment is allowed.

    Call me Dave knows full well that he will be allowed to negotiate nothing of any substance. Barrsoso has already told him that yes they will negotiate on small matters like if the flat shoes that they were going to impose on Hairdressers bur not on any ‘major’ subject. I’m amazed that even now so many believe Camerson promises bacvked of course by Labour Lib/dems and Greens.

    The only way in which the UK could break free from all the rule of the EU is to invoke article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty and only UKip will have the nerve to do it.

    As for Camerons triumphs in Europe, ask any British Farmer anf thery weill tell yu that the UK is the only country to receive massive cuts in CAP and the French received none! This is the success lewvel of his skills!

    • 2trueblue

      And do you remember who the chap who gave back our rebate, (which was negotiated by Thatcher) and got nothing in return? Blair, who was our PM for 13yrs and whose party took this country to the brink of ruin. He did not get around to renegotiating the CAP issues, because he wanted to be president of the EU.

      • Mynydd

        Yet again this is about Mr Cameron and the EU. However if you would like a bit of history; negotiations for a rebate was started under Mr Wilson and continued under Mrs Thatcher. Mr Blair negotiations, over many years, linked the rebate to changes to the CAP. It failed, yet Mr Cameron thinks he can renegotiate major treaty changes with the 28 countries of the EU in just two years. Think on the man is a joke.

        • 2trueblue

          Actually no, it is about who will be in No 10 next and what they will do. It is about the EU. If you think that it is irrelevant what Blair et al did , or did not do then you fail to understand history. Thatcher did affect change, she got results. The belief that we are totally helpless is what gives the EU power.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            No, you LibLabCon clones acting totally helpless is what gives the EU power

            • 2trueblue

              Remember the Swiss vote recently. And they are not even in the EU We do have power, we do not have to put up with all this nonsense.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …what’s to remember about that, other than they had a vote, and Dave is still dodging one.

                • 2trueblue

                  Incidently I am not your lad or anyone elses. You love to use it when you are out of ideas. Rant all you like about ‘call me Dave’ thats all you can manage.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Stop whimpering, lad.

            • 2trueblue

              There are only 2 parties from which the leader will be PM. In the background we have the Scots voting on separation and frankly if that happens it will not be Cameron.
              There are 40+ Liabore MPs up there and that leaves a problem for Millipede. The focus should be on that issue right now as it is going to be a lot tighter than people think. Our EU issue has waited this long it can wait a bit longer.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Your guy Call Me Dave will not be PM. That was decided years ago, although you’re apparently still struggling with that fact. The reason for that is that Call Me Dave and the Camerloons are socialists, like all of the LibLabCon clones, and we conservatives have exposed all that now.

                • 2trueblue

                  All you have sorted out is a negative seat to sit in and pour drivel continually with your Call Me Dave rant.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, actually, we conservatives have ensured that your hero Call Me Dave will not be PM, which is a concept you’re still struggling with, as mentioned.

                • 2trueblue

                  I don’t care what you call any of them as long as it is not Millipede in No 10 next year. You seem to be hung up on this ‘Call me Dave’ patter.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, it’s you who appears hung up on Call Me Dave, lad.

                  But if you’re that worried about the Millipede, suggest you abandon your bud CMD and not split the UKIP vote.

  • @PhilKean1

    .
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-ca

    Cameron askes voters to trust him.

    I did, in 2010. Well, actually, I went against my better instincts and gave him the benefit of the doubt.

    The worst voting decision I have made, and am ever likely to make.
    .

    • 2trueblue

      So what is the solution? Easy to keep the rant up, but what is the alternative on offer?

      WE had 13yrs of a government who did not deliver, but they sounded good. Or rather the media made them sound good. We had the BBC telling us every day how great they were and it took 13yrs when the country was broke for the penny to drop. And still the BBC did the job for Liebore. Where is the continual rant going? What is the solution?

      • @PhilKean1

        .
        13 years of Labour sounding good? I’ll have a glass of what you were drinking back then.

        Labour didn’t deliver? They most certainly did deliver. A list of damage so devastating it would take too long to print it.

        What’s the answer? The answer is that we need truth and openness, NOT lies and trickery.

        EXAMPLE: – Listen to Cameron’s assurances. He says to trust him.
        Here are a few reasons why I won’t trust him.

        Even as he is telling the British people that they will be give the opportunity to vote to leave the EU, he is trying to get Britain included in EU-US and Canada- EU trade deals, and opting-in to EU shared Crime and Justice legislation – ALL of which will make leaving the EU that much harder.

        If he was genuine about the alleged process he’s offering, there would be an immediate moratorium on him continuing to sign Britain up to economic and political union.
        .

        • Alexsandr

          he will do a wilson, get some pettyfogging little concessions, bring it back as a triumph and expect us to say, nice one dave, lets vote to stay in the EU

          Dream on mr cameron. We know that stunt now.

          • @PhilKean1

            We do not need crystal balls to know the future under Dave.

            http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100270967/david-camerons-optimism-on-europe-masks-a-high-stakes-gamble/

            Matthew 7:16 – Ye shall know them by their fruits:

            Read the above article from Benedict. In it you will see that Cameron gives himself away to the point where his transparency is embarrassing.
            .

            • telemachus

              The way is broad that leads to destruction
              Farage and Cameron together plough a broad furrow

            • 2trueblue

              Speaking of Balls, He will have the key to the kitty again if people do not vote strategically.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                It’s amazing what these Speccie kids are censoring. Bizarre.

          • @PhilKean1

            http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100270973/for-david-cameron-europe-is-less-an-existential-challenge-than-an-issue-to-be-managed/

            You hit the nail on the head. Cameron’s list of “demands” is wholly inadequate and unacceptable.

            How does he expect to fight a General Election with that rubbish?
            .

          • Mynydd

            Mr Wilson made the referendum a free vote so that Labour ministers and party members could campaign on either side in or out. Mr Cameron as refused to allow a free vote for Conservative ministers and party members.

            • Alexsandr

              i did wonder how he would put a three line whip on a national public referendum.

        • 2trueblue

          Truth and openess. You could travel the world in the political arena and not find it. When you do , let me know and I will brig a really good bottle with me and share it.
          In the meantime I will cast my vote that will assist in keeping them out.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …so your boy Dave lies and that’s ok, then?

            • 2trueblue

              There are lies and damn lies………..

              • the viceroy’s gin

                They’re all lies, told by liars. No difference between them.

      • Mynydd

        Yet again this is about Mr Cameron and the EU and no one else.

        • Alexsandr

          no its about liblabcon and their desire to see us sucked further and further into the corrupt and useless EU. Mene mene tekel upharsin

      • https://mikestallard.virtualgallery.com/ Mike Stallard

        At last someone with a sensible point!
        The problem is not “do we leave Europe?”
        The problem is beginning to look like “how do we leave Europe?” Nobody seems to be listening to what the various Presidents and European opinion makers are saying about “More Europe”. They are in no mood to negotiate. Europe will be – is – changing very fast indeed.

        Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon is full of small print and we actually face two alternatives:
        1. Break the treaty.
        2. Go along with it and go through the long drawn out process of leaving which could easily last for decades. Notice how Mr Cameron is already talking of 2017. (Why not this month?)

        • 2trueblue

          I am with you. What is wrong with giving us the vote now?
          Ah the Lib Dums. He can not get it past anyone because those whom we elected do not want us to have it.
          When we are going to get it it should be made clear to the EU that we have choices as to how we go about it. Always alert them to the choices.

          The other problem is the lies that are parrotted out about the benefits of the EU……..

          50% of our exports are to the EU…. no they are not. The goods leave our ports to go to Rotterdam and from there go to other continents as well as Europe.

          4million jobs, (this was Clegg on the debate with Farage) No there are not 4million jobs, or even 3 or even 2 dependant on our staying in the EU.

          Then we have the lie that they will not trade with us… We have a huge deficit with the EU, so they are going to stop selling us their washing machines, cars, wine……. ?

          We do need to spell it out as there is no other way. It is a non democratic organisation, so how can governments parrot that we live in a democracy when we clearly so not.

  • dado_trunking

    I believe last night’s Eurovision aptly demonstrated how Europe is evolving. Reform is quietly underway – Eastern Block countries now partake on an equally high level in activities concerning popular culture – they are and feel included. Good.

    UKIP have no idea what British culture is as Britain voted for the winning tune.
    Scotland however is in dire need of ‘reform’ as they currently enjoy a social status lower than that of Macedonia.

    • Wessex Man

      Oh my word, UKip has no idea of culture as Britain voted for the winning tune!

      Nonsense, a small, very small section of the BBC viewers voted for a song on a show that hasn’t produced a long lasting musical act in decades. If you call that culture you need help.

      • dado_trunking

        The editor of this fine publication appears to believe it is the top ranking most viewed cultural event on the planet. Scotland’s not in it. That made me think and may I add, it hurt.

        • Rhoda Klapp8

          We sent Kenneth Mckellar once. He didn’t win.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Well, maybe you should enter the goat, lad.

          Or do you all have only the one use for livestock?

    • the viceroy’s gin

      ..do the Macedonians keep goat sockpuppets, lad?

      • dado_trunking

        Where are your sockpuppets Raw Engerland and Dawg Russell, lad? Still drunk with excitement after last night’s gaiety?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Sounds like you queried your sockpuppets to find out what a sockpuppet is, lad. Good. You should know what it is you’re doing, even if nobody could ever know why you’re doing it.

  • 2trueblue

    During Liebores 13yrs we were actually promised a referendum which was never delivered. It is amazing that people have forgotten that. They also forgot that Brown quietly slipped out and signed the Lisbon Treaty. During the 13yrs we lost more and more freedoms and there was no one sho stood up for the UK. Blair had one eye on the top job in the EU so was not at all interested in what was best for Britain. Blair also gave back the rebate that Thatcher obtained for the UK. There is no one else on the horizon who has a glimmer of hope of being in a position to get us anything out of the EU other than Cameron. Merkel has already indicated that there is room for negotiation.

    • Lady Magdalene

      Merkel came to the UK and spoke to Parliament a few months ago and said that there were some areas for negotiation but not to expect anything significant. They will not re-open the treaties.
      So Cameron will be given a few p!iddling concessions which he will claim is a major change in our status as a client state of the EU (like Wilson did) and will campaign for IN.
      I don’t want a few minor changes to administration: I want this country’s Sovereignty and independence restored.

      • 2trueblue

        With Cameron we will get a choice, IN or OUT. No other party is offering that. Merkel may have no choice, the contribution made by the UK is not insubstantial.

        • Wessex Man

          Please see my comment above and if you think that you can find some way around the EU’s refusal to negotiate with anyone please let us know.

          There are snake oil salesmen and there are politicalnake oil salesmen who I wouldn’t trust to run a whelk stall!

          • 2trueblue

            There will be no realistic renegotiation. We all know that. We need IN/OUT situation, and there is only one offer of that. We had 13yrs of Liebore offering that and got the Lisbon treaty instead. Brown and his merry men ran off to do it before there was any choice for us. I have lots of problems with Cameron but I have actually had to live with what Blair, Brown, Balls, Millipede, Cooper, Smith, Burnham, etal, actually did to this country when they had a huge majority and left little in this country improved for all their time. To offer them the opportunity of getting in again I will suffer Cameron.

            • Denis_Cooper

              Labour never offered an “in-out” referendum.

        • Lady Magdalene

          Precisely. Which is why we should forget trying to renegotiate from within and invoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty and get OUT.

          • 2trueblue

            And how do you ensure that? Who has promised an IN OUT vote? Farage can promise what he likes but the reality is he can not deliver. Voting for UKIP in the EU elections has some merit but voting UKIP in a general election is giving Liebore the keys to the kitty again.

            • Alexsandr

              sorry. I am not going to vote for any party that has lied to me in the past. I will vote for someone who reflects my wishes. B0110cks to this tactical voting lark.

            • Lady Magdalene

              The Conservatives are more responsible than any other party for the fact that we are in the EU – and they intend keeping it that way.
              Why give the CONs they key to house again, when they have already done their level best to transfer its ownership to foreigners without the permission of the owners.

  • Ken

    I don’t believe a word he says and I say that as someone who has always voted Tory.

    • 2trueblue

      Whilst of course Blair, Brown, Balls, Millipede, Clegg, etc., are always believable?

      • Alexsandr

        no they are all the same. dont believe a word of it.

      • Mynydd

        As I have already said this about Mr Cameron and the EU and no one else. Stick to the subject.

        • Alexsandr

          oh. are you a moderator now then?

  • starfish

    Why is he so confident? Self delusion.

    Why should ALL of the other EU members accommodate the UK with nothing in returm?

    • 2trueblue

      We are one of the biggest contributors. The problem with the EU voting system is that the smaller countries (who contribute nothing) have more votes per capita than the UK.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Then why doesn’t Call Me Dave state that explicitly, as well as stating his other explicit goals, rather than nattering some nebulous nabobbery that nobody believes or trusts, on his way to pushing to stay-in?

      • Mynydd

        That is what Mr Heath the then Conservative Prime Minister signed up to, with out a referendum I may add.

        • 2trueblue

          Heath signed up to the Common Market, which is not the same thing. The biggest error was when he signed the add on re the fishery rights. If he had had any b..ls he would not have agreed the last bit.

          • Mynydd

            Mr Heath signed the Treaty of Rome, you can call Europe by any name, but it’s from this treaty that all else flows.

            • 2trueblue

              Amended many many many times, so it is lost in the translation.

    • ButcombeMan

      My personal view of Cameron is that he is not at all confident and that Isabel has, once again, got her reading of events wrong. Most young, bubble commentators, do, they are simply not experienced enough at life.

      Cameron is making it all up as he goes along. It shows in his eyes. He is defensive, he feels Farage’s foot on his neck. He is not master of what he does or must do.

      As another says here, above, today’s broadcast was basically his resignation speech. It is over for Cameron, he blew it, his blandishments are no longer believed. He does not expect to win a big enough majority (if at all) in 2015 to enable him to guarantee a referendum, he has spelt out his exit strategy.

      No sensible person can believe anything he says, on anything. I say that and I voted for him.

  • Lady Magdalene

    I seem to being prevented from commenting.
    Perhaps it was because I pointed out that in order for The British Establishment to prevent a Referendum in 2017, all they have to do is persuade Cameron to resign or sack him …. and they are off the hook.
    That’s the “small print” get out clause which Cameron has spelled out very clearly this morning.

    • Holly

      I got the sense that his interview this morning was his resignation speech.
      Anything other than a Conservative majority in 2015, and he’s off.

      • an ex-tory voter

        Probably too late to save the Conservative party from a double electoral drubbing. As far as I am concerned David Cameron is not a conservative he is a liability.
        I watched him on the Marr show this morning and he was just as evasive and unconvincing as ever. I ceased a lifetime habit of voting conservative when he became leader. He has done nothing since to make me regret that decision and an awful lot to reinforce it.

        • Mynydd

          You are one among many.

  • Hexhamgeezer

    Dave’s claim that his promise to resign if he doesn’t deliver a referendum is proof of his bona fides is precisely the opposite. In those circumstances he resigns after a job, in his eyes, well done.

  • Frank

    Does anyone share Dave’s confidence that he will achieve his desired goals in his renegotiation with the EU? No, you would have to be simple-minded to believe that he can achieve what he wants. Thank goodness he is likely to be de-fenestrated once the euro elections and the Scottish vote are over.

    • 2trueblue

      Yep, and you can have Liebore again, who previously promised us a referendum and then Brown went and signed the Lisbon treaty. People were simple minded when they voted Blair in 3 times and look what he did. Liebore took us to the very bring of bankruptcy and left nothing of any substance behind.

      Blair and his merry men presided over the ruination of education, health and wealth of the UK. It is very easy to blame our current ills on Cameron. Fixing things always takes longer than wrecking it. There is nothing that Liebore left behind that I would be happy to promote. They increased our debt, youth unemployment, child poverty, teenage pregnancies, immigration, to mention a few.
      They did not grow our infrastructure in any areas to push the country forward. we are left with shortage of the right skills during a period when we had ‘Education, education, education parroted at us. The NHS was brought to its knees and the real picture is now coming to the fore.. What did they do that makes you think letting them back in is any sort of a solution? What is the solution you have after 13yrs of Liebore?
      After a week in which Liebore have put out offensive, inaccurate, and negative election broadcasts what are you offering?

      • telemachus

        I will not have that
        Labour gave us all the longest period of prosperity in our history
        Like all other Western countries we suffered from the US subprime triggered recession, sadly
        But we will deliver again
        *
        With the active help of Farage splitting the vote in the Tory marginals

        • Raddiy

          No more boom or bust!!

          Reception Year economics!!

          Ha,ha,ha,ha…….ROTFL

          • telemachus

            As you well know gordons magnificent economic miracle was blown off course by Lehman and he engineered the current recovery temporarily interrupted when Osborne choked off Capital investment

            • Hexhamgeezer

              .and now we have your host Ed B, who’s economic record is worse than his driving one.

        • Alexsandr

          and splitting the labour vote. Labour have betrayed their core white core vote.

          • telemachus

            You are wrong
            Look at the demographics of our first past the post voting system
            Salmond is the only threat to Labour

          • Mynydd

            the Labour party has increased its member ship since 2010, unlike Mr Cameron’s Conservative party which has lost half its membership.

            • Alexsandr

              and what has happened to UKIP membership?
              but what really matters is not party members but a) has the party enough cash to fight an election and b) how many people put a X on the appropriate box.

        • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

          1. they start taxing at £6,500…….. compared to the coalition’s £10,500..if they represented the working man why tax low-paid workers so harshly forcing them onto benefits as they are better off on them?????)

          2. they didn’t regulate the banks in 13 years. (Blair now a banker worth upwards of 60 MILLION- and he started the new labour movement…..) Google “Peter Mandelson on yacht with Nat Rothschild” “Google Brown at Bilderberg” etc. “I want us to do even more to encourage the risk takers” (Gordon Brown, Mansion House speech, 17 June 2004) I believe, too, we should consider how we can continue to extend our risk-based approach, applying the concept of risk not just to the enforcement of regulation, but also to the design and indeed to the decision as to whether to regulate at all… And we will take the fight on deregulation to Europe.” (Speech to the CBI, 5 June 2006)

          3. more tax has been paid by top earners EVERY year under the coalition than ANY under labour.

          4. They want to increase debt BY £3,200 per person

          5. spend 11.6% more than they take in tax.

          6. they destroyed our economy. Labour presided over the slowest growth in 50 years, they produced the fastest decline in British manufacturing since manufacturing began, they left us mired in the longest recession since the war, they bequeathed maybe the largest deficit in peacetime history, and they handed over a debt so huge we will still be repaying it when the earth is swallowed by an expanding sun, a cosmological termination which might therefore come as some relief.

          7. they want to continue to send 57million a day to the EU

          8. they want higher immigration (last time allowed the biggest mass immigration into the United Kingdom in our nation’s history: three million people, possibly more than entered these island in the preceding 1,000 years combined.)

          9. they have destroyed the NHS in Wales (where they are currently in power, why wouldn’t they do it here too?????- the coalition have ring-fenced our NHS budget so they CAN’T cut it, but labour will.) Our last labour government blew £250,000,000 on private surgery because their NHS was so bad1,200 died in Mid-Staffordshire Hospital alone, that’s more than died in Mid-Staffordshire during the Black Death.
          along with their gagging orders on whistle blowers within the NHS

          10. they raid the pensions.

          11. Iraq+Afghanistan.

          12.They sold off 400 tons of UK gold reserves and invested the money in euros, compare the change in the value of gold to the change in the value of the euro in recent years if you have some free time.

          13. run by the unions

          14. They bloated the welfare budget.

          15. They didn’t keep up with house building when demand rocketed, allowing house prices to triple

          16. They failed to build a lot of necessary infrastructure such as power stations.

          17. they didn’t invest in infrastructure (despite borrowing 1 trillion and taking 13 years of tax) Well, yes: they built the Millennium Dome. It’s easy to forget the Millennium Dome, because, after all, who would want to remember it, but this thing burned up 800 million pounds, was maybe the greatest marketing flop in recorded time, and it turned out to be a great big dirty tent where queueing families could pay £60, just to look at uplifting representations of litter.

          18. They continually increased fuel duty by over 107%, harming motorists.

          19. They signed the Lisbon treaty, giving vast amounts of power to the EU and going against their own manifesto in with they specifically said they would give the people a referendum.

          20. Allowing rich people to buy peerages.

          21. Started HS2

          22. They left us with the largest budget deficit in the G20 relative to GDP.

          23.They lumbered the NHS with vast PFI repayments which are coming out of Foundation trusts and straight into the pockets of the private sector. £50 Billion’s worth of loans which are costing us £300 Billion in repayments-genius!…….

          24. Housing waiting lists DOUBLED under Labour

          25. Europe. labour’s biggest achievement in Europe was to give away half our precious rebate, won by Thatcher, at a cost to you and me of £9 billion so far – and in return they got precisely nothing, unless you count a chortling, after-dinner promise from Jacques Chirac, that he’d make Tony Blair President of the EU, which he didn’t. A small mercy.

          26. Education. ensuring English youngsters are amongst the worst educated in the western world, and closing the grammar schools preventing the poor from achieving.

          27. giving everyones personal information to america

          28.google “labour MP wants muslim prime minister”

          29. they can’t even run their party finances ( lost 2 million recently in banking)

          30. The party is almost identical to the previous labour government who got us in to this mess (ed balls).

          31. labour25 pedophile scandals.

          32. Medi Hassan wrote Miliband’s biography is a militant muslim who described westerners as animals (a video you can find on here)

          33. The espouse the same political policies and views as the French President Hollande which are destroying France, where the rich have left youth unemployment is at 25% and they have seen the largest drop in investment for over 60 years.

          34. 5 Labour MPs—and no Tories or Lib Dems—have been found guilty of expenses fraud by a court and sent to prison. Ed Balls claimed £33 parliamentary expenses for poppy wreaths he had laid at his constituency ceremony.

          35. you’re voting for the racist Diane Abbott, weak and incompetent Ed Miliband and the oaf who destroyed our economy 4 years ago- Ed Balls,

          36. labour corruption privatisation of Qinteq defence service making LABOUR Lord Drayson worth over £542 MILLION

          37. The gap between rich and poor was wider when Labour were in power.

          38.- Gave away sovereignty through Lisbon and the Human Rights Act

          39. – Abused state finances with 0.7% overseas aid pledge

          40. Abolished Primary Purpose Rule and allowed immediate A8 accession allowing 7 million immigrants into Britain 1997 to 2010 in a deliberate attempt to build its voting base.

          41. – Sucked up to crony public sector Unions by inflating pay and pensions of an unreformed public sector

          42. – Imposed postal voting extension open to political corruption.

          43. – Spent so much money on Labour cronies that it had a 5% structural deficit at the height of the boom.

          44. – Impoverished millions with the Climate Change Act of alternative energy zealotry.

          45. – Created the catastrophe of multicultural extremism.

          46. Sent our military to wars under equipped

          47. – Created welfare as a lifestyle, with the totally dysfunctional tax credit system, and the catastrophe of excessive housing benefit

          48. Labour insisted on 50% of pupils going to university even though degree level jobs for only 20%.

          49. £12.7 billion of tax pounds wasted on connecting for health IT fiasco that ended up being canned as it would never work and all investment put into it lost. That would have paid the salaries of 60,000 nurses for 10 years.

          50. Mapely Steps scandal. labour sold off 1,000 government buildings to a private company, for 300k each, making payments to Mapeley STEPS to make the deal more attractive, and effectively FREE, then leased them back for a period of 20 years at current market rate. gov inquiry concluded… it was ‘an oversight’

          As for the Labour Party right now, they’ve opposed every cut that aims to tackle the deficit their party created and are not offering a plan of what they would do differently. Apart from keeping all the cuts (which they are opposed to)

          • telemachus

            Give it a rest
            Old story
            New team

            • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

              How? Ed Balls running the economy, red ed with the same labour ideas (worked as Blair’s PA) and the rest of the front bench are IDENTICAL bar one person.

          • Mazzzz

            Well worth reading in full!

        • McClane

          So why did Brown abolish the 10p tax rate? I paid more tax because of that.

          • https://mikestallard.virtualgallery.com/ Mike Stallard

            And let us remember that even though the last Labour Government was utterly hated by the end, Mr Cameron actually managed to lose an election against Mr Brown…

      • Mynydd

        This is not about Blair/Brown this is about Cameron and the EU. We all know that Mr Cameron only promised a 2017 referendum because he had lost control of his party, and saw it as a sticking plaster to cover over the splits. On this morning’s Interview, on the AM show, one saw how shallow Mr Cameron is, not one straight answer to any question. For me the main question was, will you vote out if you do not get any reforms? Typical of the Prime Minister, no clear straight forward answer, even through Mr Marr helped him as much as possible.

        • Andy

          So why didn’t the Fascist Labour Party honour their promise of a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty ?? (Constitution=Lisbon)

          • McClane

            Because, they said, it stopped being a Constitution, needing a referendum, and was a treaty, which didn’t.

            • Andy

              Their Lordship have said the one is 90+ % of the other. If it has webed feet and quacks it’s a hamster then.

              • McClane

                a eurohamster. has as many feet and makes as many different noises as you want it to.

            • 2trueblue

              Words and their meaning…….. you can fool some of the [eople some of the time……………….. Liebore. Lets keep them out.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …same as all of LibLabCon, unfortunately.

    • telemachus

      You truly have a simplistic view
      Farage will win the Euro election but this was expected and will not damage him
      Then payback time for Farage for the moral among us who want no part of his racism
      As to the Scottish vote it is win win
      If the answer is No he gets the glory
      If the answer is yes he again basks in the glory of losing 41 Labour MP’s

      • Raddiy

        ” who want no part of his racism ”

        With the defence of your paedophile supporting friends in the Labour party at the top of the agenda, you probably can’t find the time to be racist, and leave it to your ex BNP Labour councillors to do it for you.

        With your defence of your kiddy fiddling supporter friends Harrriet Harman, Jack Dromey, Patricia Hewitt, Jack Straw et al, and being non racist, I suppose you have no problem kiddly fiddling all creeds and colours.

        • telemachus

          Mischief
          You know well the accusations were dreamed up by Lynton Crosby to protect Cameron from flak over Rock

          • Raddiy

            ‘Then payback time for Milliband for the moral among us who want no part of his defence of paedophile supporters’

            There you go fixed it for you!!

            You can’t have your cake and eat it too Tele, you are happy to throw random accusations of racism at my party with impunity. If you want to play dirty then let’s see what sticks the most, bongo bongo land or Labour ministers campaigning on behalf of those that would sexual assault 4 year old children. The problem for you is we have thousands on the blogs who will now fight fire with fire. Who do you think the public will believe?

            I wonder what sort of people continue to support a party that has a padeophile supporter as the deputy leader. As far as I am concerned, your failure to condemn her and call for her head makes you a kiddy fiddling paedophile supporter yourself.

            • telemachus

              Sadly for you the actual vague notions from 40 years ago have no resonance with the public
              Your party are engaged into An orchestrated drive to the bottom
              I am surprised that Nuttall, Farage and the rest of the leadership have not been proscribed

              • Raddiy

                Oh dear!!
                As much as you would like it to be 40 years ago, paedophilia is alive and endemic in today’s Labour Party, and defended by people like you, and by golly we are not going to let you forget it.

                It is why you probably defend open borders, it is much easier to kiddy fiddle across the continent without border controls.

                http://labour25.com/2011/05/30/labour-25-the-list-keeps-growing/

                • telemachus

                  That is an irresponsible post
                  I will engage no further

                • https://mikestallard.virtualgallery.com/ Mike Stallard

                  telemachus –
                  May I please ask who pays for the Labour Party which, let me say, is no better and no worse than any other political party, including UKIP?

    • Will Rees

      Given that the process takes longer than 2 years, if he was getting somewhere we would be having a referendum without knowing what we were for/against. He has at the very least stopped that problem, he isn’t going to acheive anything in run up to 2017 (if he is still there). He can’t have been too attached to the desired goals anyway, what with him previously saying he would campaign for Yes regardless

    • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

      I think this article was intended as a joke.

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