Coffee House

Westminster still expects Ukip to win

18 May 2014

11:40 AM

18 May 2014

11:40 AM

The polls are all over the place this morning. Ukip is either on course for a thumping victory, going to be edged into second by Labour or has fallen into third place depending on which is your preferred pollster.

But all three Westminster parties are operating on the assumption that Ukip will win, as I say in the Mail on Sunday. Certainly, Labour are getting their excuses in early. Those close to Miliband are quick to point out that Tony Blair never won a European Election and that the party machine will be concentrating more on Thursday’s council contests than the European Elections as having a strong council base will matter more in 2015 than who has the most MPs.

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But there’s no getting away from the fact that Labour should be winning these elections—and with relative ease. No party has ever gone from opposition to government having not won the preceding European Election. Combine this with the national polls and you can see why so many on the Labour side are worried and why the Tories are increasingly confident.

For his part, Farage is already looking ahead to the general election. He knows that the real challenge for Ukip is to convert support in the European Elections into seats at Westminster and prevent the party from sliding into irrelevance as it did in 2010 after a strong showing in the 2009 Euros. Tellingly, his big campaign stops thhis week are in Thanet and Eastleigh—both places that are on his shortlist of possible seats to stand in come 2015.

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Show comments
  • pajeroexceed

    UKIP !

  • Callum Anderson

    Please Farage, stand in Eastleigh. We love you down here.

  • Richard N

    If the EU criminals and their liblabcon running dogs don’t rig this election – which is not at all impossible – UKIP will get well over 40%.

    Anyone doubting this should look for example at the comments section of the revolting Daily Mail – which has, like the rest of the UK press – been vomitting a torrent of anti-UKIP smear articles, and yet the balance of most popular comments supporting UKIP is about 2,000 : 8 against.

  • The Colonel

    Well done Westminster this is possibly the one thing that they have got correct in the last 4 years.

  • Eyesee

    Much, much more important in the strong showing for UKIP will be a statement by the people about the other politicians, not really support for UKIP. Most people, whether they bother to vote for MEP’s or not do what they do, because they see European Union elections as irrelevant to this country. Dangerous, but true. Of course, mostly the EU want an indifferent attitude from the people (or to get rid of voting entirely, which is a dearly held notion that they mention from time to time). But when they are trying to pretend they are a real government, beloved of the people it backfires. Westminster also sees it in this light. UKIP are an annoyance because it gives voice to what the people want, but not what the politicians of all the ‘big three’ want. Big government, which enhances their ego’s and reinforces their importance (in their view!) It is something that these dreamy wuckfit, career politicians (otherwise known as work-dodgers) hold dear and don’t want any democratic principle to interfere with. Without the EU, where would be the security blanket for large scale corruption!?

  • Pier66

    Socialism – definition:- “a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
    policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.
    (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.”
    Hmm. Can’t see “thinking people” in there although the third part does imply conniving and plotting for which there is plenty of empirical evidence in modern Britain.
    Devious self-deluding liars would be a more accurate definition.
    Here as ever the best is COLONEL MUSTARD….but still full of lefty crap post …
    YNWA

  • Pier66

    James you are a GREAT journalist…all my best wishes for your job..then
    keep calm and VOTE FOR TORY next GE 2015
    YNWA

  • Denis_Cooper

    Sunday Telegraph admits that Nigel Farage was right about the Pfizer bid for AstraZeneca while Chuka Umunna and the other three shouting him down on Question Time were wrong:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/pharmaceuticalsandchemicals/10838725/Pfizer-EU-would-overrule-AstraZeneca-public-interest-test.html

    But of course that did nothing to stem the flow of stories attacking UKIP.

  • Conway

    [T]he party machine will be concentrating more on Thursday’s council contests than the European Elections as having a strong council base will matter more in 2015 than who has the most MPs” Let’s hope that UKIP do well in the council elections as well, then.

  • Lucy Sky Diamonds

    A house with 12+ young men are much less likely to be Germans

    • Agrippina

      Exactly, that is the reason why in Lincs and here in Cambs, north, to be precise UKIP have been elected onto the local authority. The 12+ men tend to be eastern euros in a 2/3 bed property & they use the back and sometimes the front gdn as a urinal.

      Not their fault, they are themselves being exploited, but that is why dave, ed & nick do not understand us voters, it does not happen anywhere near them. Steve Barclay tory MP, perfectly decent chap, knows what I am talking about, he is trying to help them and us, but an impossible task.

      So for their sakes and ours, we must all vote UKIP to alleviate the suffering endured by all.

  • John Armitage

    I came across this while browsing the web. I think there are issues but we must pay attention. It is not something we can hide from. Will it be a good idea? I am worried about it. there is something dodgy going on and people are not aware of some massive changes about to happen. People should be able to have a say about the future of their country. To go out and vote should allow ones voice but news papers are blocking some of the things UKIP are trying to tell people and perhaps rubbishing their claims to certain things. I want my voice to be heard and me being a Labour voter, my MP will not talk about the EU of which all others seem to be talking about. It’s like there is something to hide but I want to know ….. http://www.express.co.uk/news/… copy and paste, This is why I WILL be voting UKIP. No one in the right mind would want this. As for immigration, it is about not having the ability to control numbers of people entering. We are now governed by Brussels. After November there will be a new treaty added on to the Lisbon Treaty which gives more powers over to the EU. Cameron’s strategy is to make it work but same time look like he is doing something in the best interests of the public and it’s a con!! after the new treaty, we will then have to ask other nation states in the EU if we can have a referendum, they will block wherever possible. It is your democracy, do you really want it being undermined by the EU. People you didn’t elect will have say over your life when Westminster act as just a satellite, it is up to you folks.

  • Jonathan Burns

    It is either UKIP or Bilderberg LibLabCon.

  • Wessex Man

    After this election is all over and dusted, I’m going to put to Steve Crowther and the NE that we need a unit up and running as soon as possible to counter the dirty dirty tricks of all the so called political parties that we have encountered in this election. It doesn’t stop there even, I read a complete load of bu****** in the letters page of my regional newspaper yesterday, was told by one of our candidates in this election that it was all culled from UNISON’S Crib sheet, looked up Officers of Unison in our area and of course the letter writer was one of their finest. Yes those democrats of Unison with the history of Falkirk writ large in the memory, Red Len, the seeker of democracy still seeks Red Len’s Utopia still!

    I have a list as long as my arm of the antics that members of other poltical parties have been getting up to, I will press and press for our own dirty tricks unit and if the NE don’t agree with me set an outside organisation to attack in the same vein.

    • HookesLaw

      Perhaps your Mr Crowther should simply tell his members to stop mouthing and twittering off – then the press would not have to report the bogoted rubbish they said. What a paranoid gimp you are.

      • Tony_E

        Don’t be stupid Hooky. We all know what is going on. The press are being fed a whole bunch of old fashioned smear stories by all three main parties – it’s just the same as the stunts that McBride used to pull.

        UKIP might well turn out to be a poor political party, a cult of personality with one simple message, one that has already peaked – but the Conservatives are pretty rubbish at being ‘New Labour’ – they just don’t have a Campbell or a McBride or the mentality to grow one – they should leave this rubbish to the professional arseholes on the other side of the chamber.

      • Penny

        Bigots exist in each party, Hookes Law. Perhaps the Press simply aren’t interested in any other party’s mouthers and twitterers.

        I really don’t think it is the case that the members or supporters of ConLabLib parties only pause in their harp-playing to indulge in a spot of halo-polishing.

      • Wessex Man

        Classic from the biggest foghorn of Tory bile come forth such a stupid remark

    • Denis_Cooper

      This is what I said two weeks ago about the Newark by-election:

      “UKIP would be wise to set up two specialist teams for the Newark by-election.

      The first to conduct a rigorous positive vetting exercise for their potential
      candidates, thoroughly investigating their backgrounds back to their childhoods and checking to see whether at any time they might have said, or done, or even thought, anything which could be twisted or distorted and used against them.

      The second team to do the same for the candidates of the three old
      parties.

      There’s a good chance that there’ll be some dirt to be dug up on all of them
      if the UKIP team search hard enough, and that could make it into the local media even if the national media chose to turn a blind eye.

      Of course UKIP doesn’t really have the resources to do that kind of trawl for
      all of the thirteen thousand or so local candidates being put up by the other
      parties in the same way that the Tories and Labour can do it for UKIP’s two
      thousand odd candidates, and most journalists in the mass media are not
      interested in doing it and are only interested in repeating and embroidering
      whatever they are fed about a small number of the UKIP candidates.

      In fact UKIP doesn’t really have the resources to do that kind of rigorous
      probe even into its own two thousand odd local candidates, let alone those of the other parties, but they could certainly do it just for say a dozen people for the Newark by-election and would be well advised to get cracking on it.”

      Of course it’s too late now to do the rigorous positive vetting for the UKIP candidate, but there’s still time to drag out all the skeletons in the cupboards of the other candidates – and there are sure to be some.

      “They have sown the wind, now they shall reap the whirlwind”

      • Penny

        I know that kind of like-for-like scouring of the opposition’s cupboard for skeletal remains is tempting but it rarely plays well with the public, Denis.

        That is not to say that people shouldn’t be held to account if they do wrong during their term of office or if, like Diane Abbot, they bleat on about the elite and public schools – and then send their own child to one. But I do think UKIP has a chance to create a clean and clear path by simply keeping in touch with the electorate via local newsletters and by steering clear of mud-raking. As I said above (and elsewhere) I know from campaigns I’ve worked on that the public are turned off by negatives. It turns them off of the party doing it, but it also helps to entrench the belief that “they’re all the same”. I’ve seen an entire town converted by sensible means (and a lot of leg work!) and I’ve seen a party lose by negative campaigning.

        We also have a problem in that it is hard to get people to stand in local elections and it’s even harder to find competent people. If would-be candidates – who may be taking up a non-paying job that will likely bring them more abuse than thanks – have to worry about a 30yr old minor skeleton being found (that even they had forgotten) and their name and that of their family members being trashed in public, then who would take the risk?

    • Penny

      How do you envisage an anti-dirty tricks unit working, Wessex Man? That’s a genuine question by the way!

      • Wessex Man

        I was astonished to find with just a few minutes of fgoogling the past convictions of lab, Tory and lib/dums pages ands pages of racilist, criminal and downright strange behaviour within the last two years by the very people who seek to smear UKip now.

        I would propose that we keep AHHH! HANG ON A MINUTE, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT I SHOULD KEEP QUIET AND ONLY SHARE WITH UKIP!!!!!!!!!!

        • Penny

          Alright – don’t shout ;-). Having floated the idea in a public forum you shouldn’t be too surprised if someone who’s never heard of such a thing asks a question. Having read a comment below yours (Denis) I wondered if that was what you meant.

          I was pretty quick out of the gate in a) attacking this current smear campaign against Farage, adding that b) in my experience negative campaigns are disliked by the public and often backfire. I can’t change that position because I know it’s true and I honestly wouldn’t advise UKIP to walk this road. A campaign to restore adult-level politics to the UK (instead of soap opera stuff we saw in the LBC interview) would be an idea. Positive and pro-active stuff is like a breath of fresh air to a disenfranchised public. I also note – with approval – that, as far as I can tell, Farage hasn’t done mud-slinging although if you and I can google dodgy candidates, he can, too.

      • saffrin

        Criminalising the Labour party and their associates would be a good start.
        Evil habitually lying, twisting, denying, bas**ds that they are.

  • Holly

    You know something is ‘going on’ when people using conservative and Labour blogs are being alienated more & more by the bods who post on them.
    THEY think that if they successfully manage to ‘chase us away’, our opinion of the political party will change.
    Oh dear. Never mind eh?

  • AnotherDave

    Ladbrokes say 82% of the EU Parliament betting has been on UKIP to win.

    http://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/05/18/ukip-and-the-betting-markets/

  • Mike Barnes

    I see Sajid Javid in The Torygraph today telling immigrants they must learn English and integrate.

    The exact same newspaper has about 15 anti-UKIP bloggers on standby praying Nigel Farage makes comments like that so they can go to town on him.

    I mean didn’t Farage say something extraordinarily similar about people being uncomfortable hearing foreign languages on a train and he was called RACIST!

    Step 1) Farage says something
    Step 2) Blogosphere reacts with outrage
    Step 3) No effect on UKIP on the polls, normal people still like them
    Step 4) Establishment muppets start aping UKIP realising they can say these things too!
    Result) Another small victory against political correctness

    Even if Nigel and UKIP never win a Westminster seat, their mere existence helps drag the Westminster elite back towards normal people. That is a massive achievement and I thank them for it.

    • abystander

      German is ok though.

      His wife who he employs on your taxpayers money is German.

      Its just any language not connected to Nigel people shouldn’t be speaking on trains.

      • Jonathan Burns

        So he employs his wife as do plenty of LibLabCons and she is German so what?
        Clegg’s wife is Spanish so what?

        • HookesLaw

          So what? Its Farage who is saying zillions are coming to take your jobs and do it in a foreign language. Its Farage who says he is different from the other parties yet your perennial excuse is that the other parties are only the same.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Farage wants to eliminate his own EUSSR job, lad. You socialists want to expand those EUSSR jobs, massively.

            • HookesLaw

              Nope laddie boy.
              How is the grand wizard these days.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …is that some EUSSR jobsworth you’re angling for, lad?

                • HookesLaw

                  No argument again Mr minor wizard? How do you keep those white sheets clean?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …do your illiterate immigrant servants clean those sheets, lad?

            • abystander

              If he wants to eliminate that “gravy train” why is he on it?

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Not following your question, lad.

          • Denis_Cooper

            Is it still true that you want to leave the EU as much as the next man?

        • abystander

          Oh , but he is different form these troughers.

          He is honest Nigel your ordinary bloke condemning things like employing relatives using the taxpayers money

          While employing his wife using taxpayers money.

          • Hexhamgeezer

            sources would be good with that. And a definition of the difference between allowances and ‘ expenses ‘

      • HookesLaw

        His wife who he employs instead of an indiginous Brit with taxpayers money. His immigration spokesman who employes 7 illegal immigrants. His party which prints its leaflets in Germany.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Is that anything like your hero Call Me Dave importing foreign campaign consultants from everywhere? How about his foreign nannies? How about his foreign central banksters?

          • HookesLaw

            I don’t give diddly squat about people legally employing people from overseas or even their wives. But its Farage, you dumbo, complaining about Brits having their jobs taken away.
            Despite this claim I see that 9 out of 10 new jobs go to Brits and that the numbers of Romanians here, who might be offended to find themselves living next to Mr and Mrs Farage, have gone down.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              You’re the socialist nutter shrieking “waaaaaaycist” at anybody complaining about your dreams of unfettered immigration, laddie. You can’t shriek hysterically for that madness and then accuse Farage of what it is you yourself want.

              Not that you socialist hypocrites would understand that.

        • Lucy Sky Diamonds

          You sound awfully racist.

          • HookesLaw

            No, I do not give a monkey’s who he employes. Its Farage who says people should not employ foreigners. Farage complains about UK parliament expenses – but employs his wife on expenses.
            It might be OK if he was actually doing something useful but he hardly ever turns up for votes.

            • Bill_der_Berg

              ‘Its Farage who says people should not employ foreigners.’

              That sounds unlikely. Can you provide a link?

            • Cyril Sneer

              Hysteria example 1:

              “Its Farage who says people should not employ foreigners.”

              Not true.

      • Denis_Cooper

        Just more proof of his xenophobia that he’s married a German.

        Hang on, that can’t be right …

        • abystander

          His kids can have English as a second language but no one else’s kid should turn up at school in that condition.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Is that what you hysterical nutters think?

          • Denis_Cooper

            How do you know that his children have English as their second language?

      • Colonel Mustard

        The last thing you are is a “abystander”. Sowing your little anti-UKIP seeds throughout the thread. “Reinforcements have arrived!”

        Who’s paying you?

      • LucieCabrol

        Its really not about that and you know it…you are just playing politics….The anger in UKIP is about people who are concerned about our country and its culture.

      • Cyril Sneer

        She seems ideal for the job, an organiser at late hours, trustworthy, understanding. This is just a simplistic and shallow argument that detracts from the real issue.

  • Denis_Cooper

    Hilarious compilation of the Mail’s own stories about Romanians:

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/18/mail-outrage-at-farage-romanians-comments/

    “Mail Outrage at Farage Romanians Comments”

  • Alexsandr

    why does the European parliament have a web page with projections of MEP’s after the election. surely this is the parliament attempting to affect the results
    http://www.elections2014.eu/en/news-room/content/20140324STO39616/html/2014-European-elections-latest-projections-of-seats-in-the-Parliament

  • Niko

    What will a UKIP majority in 2015 mean to the UK? Is it achievable?

    • Kaine

      No. You cannot go from zero to 326 MPs in a single election. The failure of the SDP shows that rather well.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      It would depend on the other parties. If the others continued on current course, then their collapse would continue on apace, and it’s theoretically possible UKIP could supplant one or more of them. But if the other parties co-opt UKIP policy, they should be able to sustain themselves, and this is what the odds say they’ll do.

      • Cyril Sneer

        Good comment.

  • abystander

    The anti Romanian, its ok though to be German, dipstick, Farage, is the most frequent guest on Question Time and has weekly columns in two mainstream newspapers.

    And yet he continues to pretend he isn’t the media’s little darling.

    • Smithersjones2013

      Oh dear more crass attacks…….

      Have UKIP been given a permanent seat on the Question Time panel like the Tories , Labour and Libdems have had for decades or do they still have to be fitted in, in between with various irrelevant nondescript celebrities and academics?

      Its not how many times Farage has personally appeared, its whether UKIP are being given the same opportunities to appear and deliver their message as the establishment parties. i suspect currently they are still not.

      • Kaine

        Why should UKIP, with no MPs, be given a permanent seat with parties which have, in various incarnations, sat in Parliament for over a century? Why not the Greens?

        • Smithersjones2013

          Oh dear. I was merely pointing out that the argument made by ‘abystander’ was specious as it is not the number of appearances made by Farage that matters but the number of appearances made in total by each party.

          You also put forward a specious argument because it doesn’t matter how long a party has been in existence whether it be 100 years or 300 years as that has little bearing on their current suitability and using such criteria panders to the old boys network / closed shop practices which are so damaging in every walk of life and suffocate real democracy in this country.

          As it happens those three establishment parties were barely supported by half of those eligible to vote in 2010 with Labour and Conservative garnering only around 37% of the eligible vote collectively. Why should parties who only represent half the population get a virtual monopoly on marketing and advertising their positions?

          What matters is whether a party is relevant to the current political scene and therefore arguably both UKIP and the Greens (and any other party who put forward sufficient candidates) who contest national elections with serious intent of winning them should be provided equal status when it comes to presenting their positions.

          Its about time our democratic system was designed to promote the maximum competition and therefore arguably the best and most informed choice for the electorate instead of pandering to the whims of the establishment parties providing them an additional layer of protection.and advantage.

    • Lucy Sky Diamonds

      Germany is a highly skilled first world country. Romania is not. There is a big difference.

  • pobinr

    What is racist in being concerned about longer NHS queues?

    What is racist in being concerned about more congested roads?

    What is racist in being concerned about the worst housing shortage since WWII?

    What is racist in being concerned about no longer being a self governing nation?

    What is racist in being concerned about classes full of kids that can’t speak English?

    What is racist in being concerned about no criminal checks on who comes here ?

    What is racist in being concerned about more of England being concreted over for housing?

    What is racist in being concerned about higher house prices & rents due increased demand?

    What is racist in being concerned about mass immigration of unskilled labour who are entitled to more benefits than they pay in tax?

    What is racist in being concerned about mass immigration of unskilled labour who are only of benefit to slumlords & minimum wage employers?

    • abystander

      Its all the Romanians’ fault.

      The English have no collective responsibility for any of the above.

      • LucieCabrol

        Labour have.

        • abystander

          The English returned a majority of Labour MPs in 1997, 2001 and 2005.

          • LucieCabrol

            and my God, how they have payed for it.

            • abystander

              So don’t blame the Romanians.

              • LucieCabrol

                I don’t…they are not stupid ….I blame Labour….total betrayal of its core voter base. Cynical gerrymandering…should be jailed, the lot of them.

      • Fergus Pickering

        I think we are talking about gypsies, aren’t we? Nobody anywhere likes gypsies.

        • abystander

          Gypsies drive around in huge 4x4s taking their kids to fee paying schools in rural Sussex?

          Didn’t know that.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Well, I suppose rich gypsies might.

        • Bill_der_Berg

          Michael Foot, the revered grand old man of the Labour Party, lost no time in pulling strings to evict an illegal Gypsy encampment on a part of Hampstead Heath where he liked to walk.

          • Fergus Pickering

            I thin prosy old fool rather than what you said, but his instincts re gypsies were sound. These dens of thieves must be rooted out.

      • Agrippina

        No, it is the rotten stinking govt of that country. They built churches every 3days(BBC) with the EU funds. No infrastructure, they pay the priests in the church, who in turn tell their flock who to vote for, a fab circle.

        We feel for the Romanians they should stay & fight for their rights in their country to improve their lot.

  • Agrippina

    The media are having a final attempt at trying to convince the electorate not to vote
    UKIP. They say that UKIP will not manage to deliver on all that they have promised or that UKIP are so far ahead, we do not need to bother to vote.

    Scare tactics, we will hold our nerve and not retreat. We intend to fight on and win and send a tremor through Westminster politics.

    We have nothing to lose, our ancestors fought and died for our freedoms, we only have to go and vote.

    Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war, for we fight for more than just our freedom, but freedom for peoples, all across Europe.

  • Cyril Sneer

    A few days before the European Elections and I have yet to read a single balanced impartial article on the cons and negatives of leaving/staying in the EU. Instead, we have smears, lies and false criminal accusations of racism. The state of our media today.

    • Smithersjones2013

      Indeed its amazing how McCarthyite tendencies can take hold once fear takes over and its clear that the establishment and its MSM stooges are running scared.

      Yesterday once more D’Ancona was a classic in dissembling and prejudiced persecution.

  • david trant

    To say that no opposition party has gone onto government without ‘winning’ the Euros is a little on the weak side. No opposition party has had a surging UKIP to contend with. Labour were never likely to ‘win’ the GE after only being out of office for one term, it has happened but it is quite unusual, just as unusual for a party in government to increase its percentage of the vote in the subsequent GE. The situation has not really changed the best either of the two main parties can expect is to be largest party in a Coalition, who it will be and with whom we have yet to see, perhaps the fog might lift a little at the end of the week, but just as likely it will not be any clearer.

    • Smithersjones2013

      Oh my how many excuses do you want to make? You really have no faith in Miliband do you and no faith despite all the advantages he has:

      1)The electoral landscape favours Labour to the extent that the Tories need at least a three point lead just to force Labour in No Overall Majority Territory and obviously a significantly larger lead to become the largest party.

      2) On forming the coalition roughly half of the Libdems (10 to 12 points vote share) support turned its back on them and rallied to Labour

      3) Cameron has split the centre right vote making it highly unlikely he can win any more of the vote than he did in 2010 (i.e. 36%).

      4) The Coalition has hardly been a odel of good governmennt either in its collective behaviour or its ability to put forward coherent credible policy. As we saw in 1997 fixing the economy only takes one so far.

      Now even if Cameron can achieve 36% does anyone seriously think given the circumstances it is likely that Miliband cannot poll 33% or more? If Miliband fails it will prove one thing. That he is the most inept and inadequate Labour leader in political history and no amount of rather petty excuses will detract from that!

      In reality UKIP or no UKIP Miliband should win the election comfortably. That he won’t does not bode well……

  • alabenn

    All over the place or just adjusted to try to throw a spanner in the works, you would have to fiddle the results to come up with this mish mash of convoluted results.
    On Thursday people will now also be thinking, would you prefer German schoolchildren next door or a house full of Romanian men.
    Now with the ballot in front of you, what fool is going to tick the latter, even Romanian families would not like them next door.

  • Denis_Cooper

    UKIP would be getting even more support if Cameron hadn’t duped a substantial segment of the population into thinking that maybe he can sort out our problems with the EU without the need to actually leave it, so he should be given a chance to try to do that.

    Only about a quarter of the population are firmly convinced that we must leave, about half would prefer to stay in but without any further integration and/or with some aspects of previous integration reversed, and it is to that half that Cameron
    has been making his deceitful pitch.

    Pity that they don’t all read this article in the Observer today:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/17/david-cameron-ukip-germans

    “One of German chancellor Angela Merkel’s closest allies has firmly rejected David Cameron’s proposal to extricate the UK from the EU’s commitment to “ever closer union”, accusing the prime minister of putting it forward in a “desperate attempt to appease Ukip”.

    The comments from Gunther Krichbaum, head of the German government’s committee on EU affairs, will cast serious doubt on Cameron’s ability to deliver on a pledge that he said a week ago was the “most important” change he wanted to see in the UK’s relations with Europe.

    The remarks, backed by other senior German politicians, come before Thursday’s European elections in which the Tories are trying to defuse the Ukip challenge with promises to renegotiate the terms of UK membership in the runup to an in/out referendum by the end of 2017.

    A week ago, Cameron said in a BBC interview with Andrew Marr that he would insist the UK was no longer bound by the commitment to “ever closer union”, which is one of the core principles of the EU rulebook.

    But Krichbaum, a Christian Democrat, told the Observer that in his view the other member states would not agree to the demand, which was central to the operation of the EU.

    “I can’t imagine that the member states would allow Britain to extricate itself from the ‘ever closer union’ clause. It looks to me like a desperate attempt on Cameron’s behalf to appease Ukip”

    • Andy

      Trouble is as we can see across Europe Krichbaum’s view does not have the support of the people. They don’t want his ‘ever closer union’ bullish*t. Pity he is too stupid to understand that.

      • Denis_Cooper

        Those people wouldn’t be at the meeting of the European Council when Cameron’s proposals for treaty change were rejected.

        • Andy

          But Krichbaum still has to persuade ‘we the people’ all across Europe. Good luck with that one.

          • Denis_Cooper

            Why does he have to persuade them, and even if he does why should that be particularly difficult?

          • Conway

            You think that the consent of the people will matter? The project rolls on regardless.

            • Andy

              Exactly. That is my point. And that is why the EU needs to be destroyed before it enslaves the whole of Europe.

    • HookesLaw

      You and Farage are the dupes. Leaving the EU and joining the EEA and remaining part of the single market will mean still obeying all single market rules and paying into EU regional funds. Just like Norway. ie there would be no material difference except we would not have any votes on the regulations.
      For this small difference loony kippers would facilitate the return of a europhile labour party and lose a referendum in 2017.

      To pretend that leaving the EU completely would not hurt our economy is of course farcical and Farage never puts forward a coherent argument for explaining why it would not. We would but billions of inward investment at risk and also risk seeing jobs like in our car industry exported abroad. All we get is some airy fairey argument that the EU will miraculously do everything we demand.

      • Denis_Cooper

        You do realise that merely repeating the same lies does nothing to make them true?

      • Lucy Sky Diamonds

        Switzerland just had a referendum to limit immigration.

        • Smithersjones2013

          In Switzerland they have democracy….

          • Conway

            They aren’t in the EU, so they must be isolated and impoverished – oh, wait …

      • Lucy Sky Diamonds

        Well we have to do everything THEY demand right now….

      • Smithersjones2013

        Blah, blah blah, define a false scenario involving the EEA, blah blah blah, gratuitious insult, blah blah blah, Norway, another gratuitous insult, blah blah blah yet another gratuitous insult

        Oh do stop trying to deceive Hooky. We’ve heard it so many times we could repeat it in our sleep but it still won’t make it true…….

        • Denis_Cooper

          He’s long ago exceeded his elastic limit.

  • Tony_E

    UKIP is a political phenomenon, one that is largely unprecedented because it taps into a source of discontentment that has never really been tapped into by a mainstream party before. The discontentment of the average man in the street. The one type of person who never had a pressure group to fight for him.

    Mainstream parties, especially of the left, have used for years the pursuit of equality and fairness to appeal to minority interests, but this occurs largely at the expense of the wider populous. So while they have added different minority interests to their voter base, finally the older core vote is starting to see what has happened and is peeling away.

    It’s happened slower with Labour because the tribal vote is stronger, but it is happening to them too.

    For the mainstream parties to undo the damage they have done to themselves, they will have to unravel themselves from the minority interests the have previously been seen to support, and start to pursue a genuinely ‘equal’ policy to all strata of the vote. That’s is going to be incredibly difficult for Labour, just as restoring the working class vote of the Thatcher years will be very difficult for the Tories.

    Shooting the messenger is no longer going to be effective. Farage is not a great politician, he will never be a good administrator, UKIP aren’t really a fully evolved political party with effective structures. That’s not the point. The more the mainstream parties and media try to trip Farage up, the more popular he becomes. They have to address the reasons for his popularity, not his personality.

    • Smithersjones2013

      UKIP is a political phenomenon, one that is largely unprecedented
      because it taps into a source of discontentment that has never really
      been tapped into by a mainstream party before

      I think it has been and successfully so. Why do you think Margaret Thatcher polled over 13 million votes in three successive elections and left a legacy of even more voters that was squandered by John Major. Nationalism in response to reckless Internationalism is not a new concept.

      • Tony_E

        I don’t think so. While the Thatcher government was pretty successful in courting working class support, they never really made the headway that UKIP have made in ‘Red Rosette on a donkey’ country.

        Thatcher’s success was a reaction against the paralysis of the 70’s, and also against the morass of the Foot/Kaufman manifesto. It was also a reaction to the loosening of borrowing, which allowed so many people to actually own assets, the value and security of which the Thatcher government sought to protect.

        Plus, the Falklands war had a real effect on the national psyche. In a strange way, a war we precipitated by poor strategic thinking came to be a defining moment it the restoration of British confidence.

        So I would suggest that UKIP is somewhat different, but would concede that it appeals to many who Thatcher appealed to.

  • cromwell

    The truth will set you free.

    http://martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/rivers_blood2.html

    An extract;
    But while to the immigrant entry to this country was admission to
    privileges and opportunities eagerly sought, the impact upon the
    existing population was very different. For reasons which they could
    not comprehend, and in pursuance of a decision by default, on which
    they were never consulted, they found themselves made strangers in
    their own country. They found their wives unable to obtain hospital
    beds in childbirth, their children unable to obtain school places,
    their homes and neighbourhoods changed beyond recognition, their plans
    and prospects for the future defeated; at work they found that
    employers hesitated to apply to the immigrant worker the standards of
    discipline and competence required of the native-born worker; they
    began to hear, as time went by, more and more voices which told them
    that they were now the unwanted. On top of this, they now learn that a
    one-way privilege is to be established by Act of Parliament: a law,
    which cannot, and is not intended, to operate to protect them or
    redress their grievances, is to be enacted to give the stranger, the
    disgruntled and the agent provocateur the power to pillory them for
    their private actions.

    • Kaine

      Sounds terrible. Thankfully has no relationship whatsoever to reality. The employer bit was particularly fun, since the urge of many employers to hire immigrants is precisely because they don’t know their rights at work, or the minimum wage, and can easily be threatened into subservience or sacked at a moment’s notice.

      Really we need to get Jan, Aleksy and Malik into trade unions. Then employers wouldn’t be able to undercut wages in the same way.

  • Penny

    Not wholly on topic, but I’d like to make mention of the LBC interview being touted around as “astonishing” and a “car crash”.

    My irritation began when I watched it and this has increased to simmering anger because these types of interviews are being passed off to the public as almost “incisive” political commentary. They are no such thing. They are a mixture of gossip, irrelevancy, character assassination and bread and circus, served up Punch & Judy style. They assume the British public can only cope with the weighty manner of politics if they are presented in a format less “Intelligence Squared” and more like “Big Brother” housemates squabbling.

    I’ve seen people attempting to defend Farage after the LBC interview. Might I suggest that you don’t – because it’s the actual format and style of these types of interviews that need attacking. They are bringing the level of political discourse down to soap opera levels when really, we must speak up for adult debate on the issues.

    • Raw England

      The problem is this:

      All the slimy, Leftist interviewers and hosts are always from the parasite city of London. They work from the cancerous assumption that all of England are London Liberals, when in fact, the rest of England outside London, Birmingham etc, is Nationalist and Right-wing.

      • Penny

        I’ve got to go out now but just as a quick response: I don’t think it matters what party we’re talking about or which sector of the public they are talking to. My concern, after seeing this program and reading the “astonishing!”, “car crash” stuff is that they are simply enabling personality politics and steering the direction of debate in a way that seeks a particular outcome.

        • Raw England

          Your concern is correct.

      • Kaine

        The rainbow flag is currently flying from Manchester town hall. So again, please don’t include us in your vile slurs.

        • Wessex Man

          get a life!

          • Kaine

            You’re the one following me around the boards mate.

            • Kitty MLB

              Its your charm, old chap, clearly.

            • Wessex Man

              No I happen to be here as is my right then you pop up with one of your little di**** and I feel the need to reply. You with your communist bile won’t shut any of us down.

              • Kaine

                And there we have the conservative victimhood complex in a nutshell; insult someone, claim doing so is a fundamental right, swear, chuck the word communist in and then pretend the person you started ranting at is oppressing you.

        • Colonel Mustard

          Do heterosexuals have a flag? If not why not? Where is the “equality” and “fairness” in that.

          I’ll tell you why. Because if heterosexuals banded together and created a flag YOU would call them bigots, that’s why.

        • Fergus Pickering

          What is the Rainbow flag? What does it look like? What does it stand for? I’ve never heard of it.

          • Kaine

            You have an internet connection, and all of human knowledge at your finger-tips.

            I’ll get you started. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_flag_(LGBT_movement)

            • Fergus Pickering

              I cannot tell you how much I dislike the idea of a flag for homosexuals. It encourages them/you to think t hat the fact that they are homosexual at least some of the time is the most important thing about them. If it is then they are people of little account. here are some homosexuals. Alexander the Great, Michelangelo, W.H. Auden, William Pitt the Younger. Was their homosexuality the defining thing about them., Is it the defining thing about you?

    • Denis_Cooper

      The fact that the supposedly very right wing Daily Mail has invited the extreme left wing interviewer to repeat and amplify his views in an article today:

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2631581/What-need-know-Nigel-Farage-vote-Thursday-JAMES-OBRIEN-LBC-radio-presenter-Ukip-aide-tried-silence.html

      might lead some to think that there’s something a bit strange going on here.

      But actually it’s easily explained; UKIP wants to leave the EU, while those leading the Tory, Labour and LibDems parties are all utterly determined to keep us in the EU at all costs, and so those three rival pro-EU parties can
      and will work together to attack their common enemy.

      • Raw England

        I also was disgusted and shocked that the Mail gave that far-Left wretch a big platform to hit UKIP again.

        I lost any faith I had in the Daily Mail a while ago. They despise the White working class.

      • Kitty MLB

        And yet Cameron is the only party leader allowing us to have a referendum, regardless of his reasons.
        Farage has also said he himself will put country
        before party and reluctantly support Cameron in this

        • Denis_Cooper

          I suggest you have a look at the comment I’ve just posted further up the thread about German politicians knocking Cameron’s renegotiation plan on the head before he’s even
          got to try it.

          • Kitty MLB

            Yes I am aware of those comments, Merkel
            has always been quite open and above board.
            She said a long while ago that if one country
            wanted to renegotiate then they all will.
            We still will be having that referendum, regardless, it should be at the end of this
            parliament in my humble opinion and I assume
            if Merkel throws her toys out of the pram
            Cameron should change sides.Although
            as Prime Minister he needs to be diplomatic.

            • Denis_Cooper

              “I assume if Merkel throws her toys out of the pram Cameron should change sides.”

              Of course he wouldn’t do that, any more than Wilson decided that having got nothing significant from his renegotiation he would change sides and recommend that we should leave.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            Frau Merkel gave us fair warning in her speech to Parliament here. We should all be grateful to her and to the other German politicians who are pointing out that Dave is having us on.

        • Conway

          Cameron is the only party leader pretending he’s going to allow us a referendum, more like. He issued a three line whip last time a referendum was on the table (2011).

        • starfish

          “allowing us to have a referendum”
          and that sums up the problem
          The mainstream parties have conspired to deny the UK that vote

          • Kitty MLB

            Its rather amusing, I am a Conservative closer
            politically to UKIP then Cameron’s bunch.Yet
            all these attacks on my party regardless of
            its current leader, are making me defend Cameron.You need to watch that with
            Conservatives.And also need I say, develope
            some policies.

            • Fergus Pickering

              I think policies are overrated. Just do what seems right at the time. Policies are dead documents cooked up by wonks you wouldn’t trust father than you could throw them.

              • Kitty MLB

                Oh Fergus, its a fools paradise. The rest of us can have that logic, but not them. We have Salmond riding his Highland Bull
                and everyone following him. We have that lovely white knight Nigel Farage riding a Unicorn with everyone following him. At this rate Scotland and England will be governed by two fish platters without a policy between them. And fish is supposed to be good for the brain. Oh I give up, I really do, all this going with the flow doesn’t bode well in my humble little and quiet
                opinion. Well I’m off to have scrambled eggs and Kippers
                for breakfast. And then I will tend to the bats in the attic.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  What are you going to do with the bats in the attic? TLC or gun law?

                • Kitty MLB

                  TLC, Fergus dear. Bats are the most adorable little things,
                  and living on the edge of woodland, one does end up living
                  with nature.
                  Oh, rescued another baby hedgehog, whose mother had been run over. That happens so much, the little prickly fellow
                  is getting on thankfully. Unfortunately spend an awful lot of time having to rescue woodland creatures.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Hurrah for the hedgehog. And the bats too. Do you know the Scots call them flittermice?. Yes realy.

                • Kitty MLB

                  How extraordinary of the Scots to call bats by such a name,
                  they are also very much maligned and misunderstood little creatures.
                  Also, how on earth are dormice called so. They are more like tiny red squirrels, who spend all of their lives in trees
                  and half of that hibernating.
                  I told the baby hedgehog that you sent him your regards. He popped his little bobble nose out at that point, so I am sure it
                  was very much appreciated.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Flittermouse is a more descriptive name than bat. I woud give us Flitterman for the comicbook hero. A dormouse is a French mouse that sleeps all the time, as in Alice in Wonderland.You see how much I know.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Yes I agree, Flittermouse opens the imagination unlike bat.
                  French mouse that sleeps all the time that sounds quite delightful. You know a lot, clearly ate all your vegetables as a little boy- Did you know that dormice snored ?
                  I love the idea Flitterman the comic book hero.
                  You would hardly know our superhero was there.
                  Just a flittering presence, light and rapid as the flash and
                  flutter of a thousand wings.
                  Can a hedgehog be in this book too? he can roll himself in
                  a prickly ball and be used as a weapon. But don’t mention
                  scrubbing brushes. The little creatures take that as a insult .

        • Fergus Pickering

          So that makes two party leaders, Kitty.

          • Kitty MLB

            Fine fellows. Yet whilst on the political battlefields it will always be. A seat, a seat , my kingdom for a seat. He who
            has the seat, wears the crown and makes the rules.

            • Fergus Pickering

              Nigel will have a seat here ere long. They have attacked his wife, his children, his coat and his hat. But he is stll here with the same wife, children and attire.

              • Kitty MLB

                Attacking his attire was below the belt! You see, they start by
                taking your hat, then your coat, then your shirt, then your skin
                and finally your soul. Would Nigel he that is anti establishment, sell his soul for a seat ?

                • Fergus Pickering

                  No he would not.He will not.

      • Penny

        I’m sure you are right, Denis. Instead of attempting to persuade by the merit of their arguments they’ve turned a very important election into a farce – and it’s this that troubles me. The more we accept this type of interview, along with the general hogwash dished up by the MSM, the more we are distracted and the more Westminster is shielded from having to face the public on the issues.

        I couldn’t care less if Cameron conducted PMQ’s while wearing flippers (or Theresa May’s snakeskin heels). I don’t care if Clegg wears Chanel lipstick in the comfort of his own home or if Milliband is a secret fan of Sooty & Sweep. What matters is how they go about the very important matters of state.

    • obiwan

      Very well said, Penny. I had almost the exact same reaction to the risible morons attempting to paint Mr Farage as – yet again – a ‘racist’ merely for stating his point of view. Every time these ‘meeja’ f*ckwits try this all they do is to remind the rest of us what a despicable bunch the fascist left really are.

      • Penny

        Thanks, obiwan. These past few weeks have shown us just how dumbed down our politics has become. To pass this particular interview off as some kind of victory has been – to my mind,anyway – rather like doing a lap of honour of the school playing fields after getting straight E’s in your GCSE’s.

        The LBC interview brought matters to a head for me. It was a car crash alright – but not for the reasons stated. It simply highlighted how patronised we are in that O’Brien (and others) think this type of fluff matters. It was full of pointless nonsense and irrelevancies – like Farage not knowing the name of a candidate (no leader would) or that he’d once met up with a dubious character (haven’t we all?) or that he’d once been a secretary (or something) of a failed business (and??). And on and on.

        Prior to the last election I recall other nonsense – like which rock group the leaders liked, or which song, or whether they were boxer shorts or briefs men. It’s enough to make you weep! Although I understand Ukip supporters defending Farage, I think those of us who care about the state of our political institutions need to challenge the dumbing down, bread and circus stuff. If we do not then, no doubt, they will continue to dish it out while saying diddly-squat about the issues. When you think about it, it’s no wonder the Westminster bubble can get away with so much.

    • terence patrick hewett

      I was always a fan of the Brian Walden interviews.

  • cargill55

    The Liblabcon oligarchy and the sycophantic MSM are so terrified about the 2014 and 2015 elections they are destroying British democracy to keep their power.
    There is a clear anti UKIP approach by the MSM to protect Liblabcon and destroy UKIP, just look at the insults , smears, sneers, lies , propaganda and misrepresentation of the Liblabcon oligarchy and the sycophantic Liblabcon protecting MSM .
    The generalised and hysterical MSM , Liblabcon and establishment anti UKIP campaign is a reality and a threat to British democracy.
    – Liblabcon are getting people to trawl through UKIP members social media accounts to find anything which can be used in anti UKIP propaganda
    – the MSM is writing hundreds of articles in the biggest smear, sneer, misrepresentation, insult and lie campaign against UKIP , the biggest in Britain’s history, all to protect the corrupt oligarchy of Liblabcon .
    – the EU is using British taxpayer money to employ trolls to propagandise against UKIP
    – the Westminster Liblabcon mob are saying the UKIP poster campaign was racist yet all UKIP wants is controlled immigration and immigrant assimilation and the British people ceratinlydo not see the poster campaign or UKIP as racist.
    – now the MSM propaganda , hysteria and anti UKIP extremism has been picked up by supporting thugs who have lost the debate to such an extent they now resort to violence against UKIP .

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes, the violence is coming. LibLabCon will kill, make no mistake. All entrenched establishments will protect their turf, by any means necessary. It’s historical reality.

    • Conway

      There have certainly been threats made to people displaying UKIP posters in their window in a town near me. It seems there is a very nasty undemocratic element about, intending to shut down a rival party.

  • cargill55

    UKIP must be doing something right .
    We are hated by the EU , MSM, Liblabcon and now even Bill Cash is having a go at us.
    Brilliant , well done Farage , well done UKIP for standing up to this anti British Establishment mafia and giving Britain a chance.

  • cargill55

    The ComRes analysis shows UKIP ahead of Labour in every English region and projected to get 29 EU seats v Labours 20 and 16 for the Tories .

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/17/UKIP-Still-in-Lead-Among-Those-Certain-to-Vote.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      If the Cameroons finish in 3rd place in every region, there could be an outbreak of soiled pants. It would start in Camerluvvie HQ, but could spread well beyond there and quickly reach epidemic proportions within the bubble.

      The baseline rate of incidence is an unknown, and local cleaners are to be on the alert for a potential massive influx of workload. Watch out for plastic bags held at arm’s length, especially those held out by recently immigrated house servants. This is a certain giveaway of a pathogen vector, from Camerluvvie poshboy to population center. Caution is advised.

  • cargill55

    A Tory minister can say we need to control immigration, immigrants must learn English and fit in with British culture.
    But if UKIP says that it’s racism .
    Why does the MSM not report Liblabcon criminality?
    Racism, homophobia, firearms offences, benefits fraud, lots of crooks in Liblabcon.
    MSM don’t seem interested, wonder why.
    The Liblabcon cartel and the MSM stooges are political mafia, disgusting hypocrites and dangerous to Britain.

  • Raw England

    Also, remember this (and no, I’m not UKIP):

    The huge, unwanted non-White population in our country cost the Tories a majority government in the last election (though I despise the Tories). Much worse than that, the non-Whites – including all the powerful non-Whites in politics/media – violently, disgustingly used their state-power to attack and massively weaken the BNP.

    And AGAIN, as always, the non-White population is still preventing the British/English people from electing a government that will serve native British interests. UKIP would have a CLEAR path to victory, in both the Euro elections and General Elections, if not for the non-White vote.

    Also, I URGE all Spectator commenters and writers to read the truly SINISTER speech Muslim MP, Sadiq Khan, gave to the anti-White Operation Black Vote and ‘BAME’ horde the other day.

    Remember Enoch Powells words.

    • Colonel Mustard

      http://press.labour.org.uk/post/85827821849/speech-to-operation-black-vote-on-tackling-race

      It is incredible that this man can use the phrase “one nation” in a speech setting out to create an ethnic apartheid in Britain. The most cynical appeal to party politics and proposing to pervert the rule of law to advance the political power of his party.

    • cromwell

      Black, Asian and ethnic minorities. In many cases Black, Asian are majorities, and indigenous white people are the ethnic minority, who will speak for them?

    • Kaine

      When Mr Powell couldn’t even be bothered to get his classical allusions right, I don’t see why I should remember anything else he said.

      • Kitty MLB

        I utterly depore the EU , Those who live here and don’t
        respect this country which is overly populated but
        that has nothing to do with colour.Utterly deplore
        racism.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    It should be noted, for the Speccie kid’s edification at least, that “Westminster” does not “expect” a 4th party to win a national election.

    Ever.

    Because it rarely happens, and not for a very long time.

    Perhaps we might get the Speccie kids to comment on the historical aspects of this election, if they can find time in between digging up smears, and sneering out insults. It would be interesting to have some balanced perspective, for those who are actually interested in a functional politics.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    But there’s no getting away from the fact that Labour THE CAMEROONS should be winning these elections—and with relative ease. No party has ever gone from opposition to government having not won the preceding European Election, EXCEPT THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS JUST 4 YEARS AGO, PERHAPS WHILE THE SPECCIE KIDS WERE PLAYING THEIR XBOX, MUCH LIKE TODAY MOST LIKELY. Combine this with the national polls and you can see why so many on the Labour side are worried CASUALLY WAITING AROUND FOR THE ELECTORATE TO SWEEP AWAY THE CAMEROONS and why the Tories are increasingly confident SOILING THEMSELVES.”

  • Andrew Price

    As a Christian it is my duty to vote. David Cameron and the Conservative Party has waged a war against Christianity.I will be voting UKIP along with hundreds of thousands of other evangelical Christians.

    • Kaine

      Yet another ‘Christian’ whose personal problems with two men kissing outstrips any other concerns.

    • Kitty MLB

      You obsurd bigoted pompous little man.What on earth has
      gay marriage got to do with saving the country from
      the ravages of the last Labour rampage got to do with
      marriage . God has no issue with Love regardless of
      what religion dictates.

  • cromwell

    Time for Britons left or right to unite to fight to be an independent nation free of the unholy alliance, then we can fight out our differences in our time hallowed democratic manner.

    • Kaine

      I take it you also want to leave NATO, the UN, the IMF, the World Bank and the other shackles of modern diplomacy? If we’re gonna be properly independent.

      • Swiss Bob

        I think that’s what is called a ‘straw man’, none of those organisations exert any sovereignty over the UK.

      • Wessex Man

        Please tell me oh wise one why on earth we would have to leave all those organisations upon leaving this lame duck organisation called the European Union.

        When the UK joined the EEC, Europe accounted for 36% og the worlds’ GDP, it now stands at 15% and falling.

        • Kaine

          I’m simply curious as to which supra-national organisations impinge our sovereignty and which do not. After all NATO obliges us to go to war.

          That the rest of the world is doing quite well doesn’t diminish Europe. Why would it?

          • LucieCabrol

            Answer the question…why tie yourself to a hogg tied corpse

            • Kaine

              Because it’s not a corpse? Because the EU remains the largest trading block in the world? Because the rise of the continent spanning BRICs nations is an argument in favour of medium-sized nations uniting, not against it? Because in this second age of globalisation national governments lack the scope to handle problems, from capital flight to environmental decay, and allying with our closest neighbours to combat them is eminently sensible?

              Relative decline is not the same as absolute decline. Britain has been relatively declining for 150 years now, but is far richer than it was then.

              • Colonel Mustard

                “…an argument in favour of medium-sized nations uniting…”

                Why did Labour devolve power to Scotland and cause the potential break up of the United Kingdom then?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  They had to burn the village in order to save it.

              • Wessex Man

                You silly person you, any of the other organisations you mention, you can walk away from without issuing Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty and then fighting two years to get out.

                None of the other organisations you mention Chair, Leader or President says as the President of the EU said after the signing of the Lisbon Treaty- ‘I see the EU as an Empire, yes a modern Day Empire, ever expanding’. Well it’s last bit of expanding is going to result in war in Europe!

                no other trading block has fallen as badly as Europe over the years. When the UK joined the EEC in the 1970s Europes share of GDP was 36%, it’s now 15% and still you want us to stay in.

                • Kaine

                  We could walk away from NATO tomorrow? With no negotiation?

                  The two year process in Lisbon simply puts a definite timescale on negotiations. If it didn’t exist you’d be complaining they could be dragged out forever. Still any UK government could ignore the provisions, it would then just be treated as a treaty-breaker and other nations would act accordingly.

                  The quote, which you don’t even cite properly, I will assume is a reference to what Barroso said. When asked how he, personally, thought of the structures of the European Union, he made the analogy to the multi-nation states of the old European Empires to demonstrate this supra-nationality wasn’t a new idea, but made the point that this time nations had joined voluntarily, and this was a key difference.

                  And again you make no argument as to why the rise of continental economic powers is an argument for dissolution of the block we are a part of. You seem to think quoting two figures from a UKIP leaflet makes an argument. Sorry darling, but all your work is still ahead of you.

  • Lady Magdalene

    I expect the

    “bigots/clowns/loonies/fruitcakes/racists won …. insignificant …. complete irrelevance, makes no difference to anything …. move along, nothing to see here ….. articles are already written.

    I hope and pray we win. It’s going to be SO enjoyable watching The Establishment, intelligentsia and chatterati squirm, wriggle and be forced to eat their words.

    • Seadog

      Oh yes!

    • Holly

      Right behind you on that one.
      To wake up next Monday to see the two main parties scrabbling to ‘win us back’, after years of taking no notice mind you, is going to make the next year FUN.

    • terence patrick hewett

      Written already using article writing software which takes the heavy lifting out of writing multiple scenarios to be tiddled up later.

  • George_Arseborne

    James l struggle to find any logic in your article. Is it because as a Tory supporter you are so desperate no to get any blame for the poor results of your Party.
    If EU referendum was an issue in this European election, then headless Cameron and the Tories would’ve been leading and looking forward to gain majority seats in the EU parliament rather than Labour that says No to Referendum.
    Remember Labour lost an Election 4 years ago and seeing them as a likely parliamentary majority in 2015 is a major shift in politics for them to spend just a term in opposition and back in Power.
    Think about that Boy

  • cromwell

    Well to report poll results unreported here.”Today’s ComRes poll gives Ukip its highest lead in a European
    elections survey, suggesting that the Eurosceptic party will scoop up
    MEP seats across the country. Among those who are certain to vote, Ukip
    is on 35 per cent, 11 points ahead of Labour, on 24 per cent, with the
    Conservatives down two points from the last ComRes poll earlier this
    month, at 20 per cent. The Green Party has pushed the Liberal Democrats
    into fifth place and is up two points to 7 per cent, while Nick Clegg’s
    party is down two to 6 per cent.”
    Seems the negative attack tactics employed by MSM has backfired and hopefully the worm has turned and UKIP will follow up with victory in the parliament, the real one that is, the UK one, and force a democratic plebiscite on membership of this unholy alliance.

  • Ricky Strong

    UKIP is like that fresh breeze on a lazy muggy summers day. Good riddance LibLabCon, close the door on your way out.

    • telemachus

      Sounds good but the electoral system is stacked against any prospect of success

      • saffrin

        Stacked against yet UKIP still top the polls, even after the anti-UKIP propaganda that hits every headline day after day.

        • telemachus

          Pointless if it cannot translate to power

          • Colonel Mustard

            That is all the Labour party and its hired shills ever think about. Power. Gaining it by any means. Keeping it by any means. And then using it to inflict misery on the English people.

            • Denis_Cooper

              They’re the dregs, and giving themselves classical pseudonyms does nothing to improve them.

            • telemachus

              Indeed
              Power is necessary to stop the Osborne clique pursuing policies which divert resources to those who have them already

              • Colonel Mustard

                So you admit your intention is to inflict misery on the English people again?

        • Kitty MLB

          Yes UKIP are at present at the top of the polls
          regarding the EU elections, I would expect them
          to be so and they are a voice of those who are fed up with politics. But the only polls that
          matter are those next spring when chosing
          The First Minister to the Queen and his/her
          government.When we think about the economy,
          education, welfare etc.etc.

          • fubarroso

            The Queen? You mean that citizen of the EU that resides at Buckingham Palace that has broken her coronation oath several times by giving Royal Assent to EU treaties?

          • Wessex Man

            Really? We the Scots referendum cahanges the UK for ever, there will be turmoil in this country and people will certainly not be turning to the parties that have caused it!

            • Kitty MLB

              Nigel is a good egg. Yet as we know the polls next year matter
              more, as you know. And the other issues I mentioned matter also, as well as the EU. Nigel needs to have some policies.

      • Ricky Strong

        They used to say that about Labour.

      • ButcombeMan

        You will shortly need to start explaining why Axlegrease thinks the task is hopeless. Something about lipstick and pigs?

        • Raw England

          ‘Axlegrease’.

          Hehe.

  • Frank

    Hola,
    Does anyone at Telegraph Towers realise that when you click on “Blogs” on the “Comment” page of the Telegraph, you get a little message from BT (?) saying that it cannot find the telegraph webpage!!
    As for Thursday’s vote, I imagine that most people will vote UKIP wherever they can. So depending on the coverage, Labour may also do fairly badly in the council elections.

    • telemachus

      Faced with the reality of the Ballot box many who have declared allegience in the polls will hold back from being seen to have identity with the BNP

      • starfish

        Why?

        Do you have access to ballot papers?

        Afaik it is secret ballot except in labour postal votes

        That is likely to boost UKIP votes

        • telemachus

          No just look at electoral demography

      • ButcombeMan

        I smile, you are more and more desperate.

        I am gathering the “Comments of telemachus” for a political book, is that OK?

        • starfish

          Penny dreadful?

      • Denis_Cooper

        The BNP hates UKIP as much as the Tories hate UKIP, which is why the Telegraph moderators are turning a blind eye to BNP trolls roaming the comments thread slagging off their common enemy.

      • Holly

        In ya dreams!
        It is the ONLY time we get a chance to kick the bods who constantly bug us….For five years!

      • Penny

        I’m not going to bother going repeating my previous comments here except to say that attempting to intimidate people is neither noble nor a victory.

        I would suggest your comment is back-to-front. As people are not “seen” in ballot boxes they are not inhibited from putting their cross where ever they choose. Conversely, the are seen or heard in polls.

    • https://belasariust.wordpress.com/ solly gratia

      It’s not BT. I can access the page from home and one place of work, but not another place of work.

  • telemachus

    “…prevent the party from sliding into irrelevance as it did in 2010 after a strong showing in the 2009 Euros. ”
    In the grand scheme of things the Irrelevance of UKIP is not the message-that clearly strike a chord with the voters
    -But the UK electoral system that will consign UKIP to a poor fourth even if they get 20% of the popular vote in a general election

    • Denis_Cooper

      And you’d be perfectly content to have a fifth of the UK electorate deprived of any representation in the UK Parliament?

      • Alexsandr

        telytubby does not want a democratically elected government. he wants an e german state with stasi secret police and a berlin wall. He said so on another topic.

      • Kaine

        So you want PR?

        • Denis_Cooper

          Not any of the conventional forms of PR.

          • Kaine

            Always happy to learn some new psephology if you’d like to outline your system.

            • Denis_Cooper

              Not at this particular time, there are other more topical matters to deal with. Maybe after May 22nd.

    • Holly

      Labour said the same about Scotland….
      Oh and Bradford.

  • @PhilKean1

    .
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10837352/These-weird-Euro-elections-are-the-sunset-of-democracy.html

    Not many times I disagree with the great Christopher Booker.

    He asks why UKIP don’t produce a plan for Britain outside the EU. If this isn’t playing the EU’s game then I don’t know what is.

    Look, leaving the EU is an unknown quantity, except in the sure knowledge that Britain would better prosper.
    Leaving the EU would be a long process, as would Scotland’s be for leaving the UK.
    There would be negotiation – PROPER negotiation, not the Cameron kind. There would be horse-trading, concessions and demands.

    All-in-all, leaving the EU would probably take 2 or 3 years of this process. How, no, WHY should people with Britain’s national interest as their first concern have to jump through these totally unquantifiable hoops?

    .

    • telemachus

      why UKIP don’t produce a plan for Britain outside the EU.
      *
      You know why
      They do not wish to face the voters with the possibility of economic collapse

      • @PhilKean1

        Very silly. You think just saying something makes it true?

        What about the pro-EU traitors being pressured to produce a plan for STAYING in the EU? Though that would pose a problem, bearing in mind the history of failure, deceit, treachery, incompetence, de-democratisation and corruption – so far.

        And a prognosis that indicates much worse as Cameron and Miliband make further efforts to sign Britain up to EU economic and political union.
        .

        • telemachus

          It is for you to refute
          *
          And you cannot

          • Colonel Mustard

            No, it’s for us to vote. And you won’t be there to “tag” that. All your disruptive blather here cannot do a thing about that.

          • Wessex Man

            in that case why on earth don’t you give all the proof you keep saying you have about UKip being racist an airing here?

          • Kitty MLB

            Yes he can.

      • UniteAgainstSocialism

        Yawn, oh my, you really are boring aren’t you.

        Nothing could ever be worse than the economic collapse caused by Gordon Brown and Ed No Balls when the shameful Labour Party were in power last.

      • starfish

        No economic collapse

        Freedom to trade without the dead hand of the EU

      • ButcombeMan

        Garbage.
        WTO trading rules apply.

      • Denis_Cooper

        Which hypothetical economic collapse would of course be entirely confined to the UK and would have no knock-on effects in other countries across the EU whose economies partly depend upon the British being able to buy their exports.

    • starfish

      Good point.

      This country has millennia of experience outside the EU

      Many of our closest and oldest trading partners have managed to struggle on outside as well

      Not sure what such a plan needs to say other than we will run our affairs to the benefit of this nation, seeking partners and alliance s for mutual benefit as we go.

      Much like we used to

      • Kaine

        “This country”, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, has only existed since 26 counties left in 1922. Britain has only existed since the Act of Union in 1707. Even if we go back to the Norman conquest, that’s not quite a thousand years.

        So what exactly is this “millennia of experience”?

        • Wessex Man

          you nitpicker you.

          • Kaine

            There may, or may not, be good arguments on either side for Britain’s diplomatic and economic prospects outside the EU. Trading patterns from the Viking Age are not among them.

            • Wessex Man

              You’ll be threatening us with a Crusade next!

              • Kaine

                Why? Starfish was the one making historical allusions.

                • Wessex Man

                  I don’t remember any mention of the Viking Age until you used it.

                • Kaine

                  He’s the one that said “millennia of experience” as if the experience of a thousand years ago affected Britain’s trade prospects now.

              • Fergus Pickering

                A Crusade? Has a fine ring to it. Christians are right. Pagans (meaning muslis) are wrong! I like it. It’s catchy.

        • Conway

          Where I am “this country” refers to England (just as, over the border, “the nation” refers to Wales). England existed before the Norman conquest.

          • Kaine

            England as a separate state existed for all of 24 years between 1042 and 1066, between when we were a vassal kingdom of the Danes and a milch-cow for the Normans.

            You can find other periods of isolation, but I could give you every year back to Alfred and that still wouldn’t add up to ‘millennia’.

            People who shout about how proud they are of our island story should try learning it.

            • Fergus Pickering

              Ever heard of Alfred the Great? Athelstan? Naw, of course you haven’t.

              • Kaine

                You mean the Alfred I mention in my reply?

                Do you even read things before you reply Fergus?

                • Fergus Pickering

                  So you did. Ten out of ten. Now tell me about Athelstan. And Penda.

        • starfish

          This island has existed as a trading entity since it was first populated at the end of the last ice age
          It is only in the last 40-odd years that we have apparently required the EU to manage our trade
          That is the point I was making
          Care to respond to the substantive point rather than aimless pedantry?

          • Kaine

            I did actually, but I’ll repeat. Whether or not Britain succeeded as a trading nation back in the age of swords and sails means sod all about our prospects today, and is nothing more than misty-eyed sentimentalism.

    • https://belasariust.wordpress.com/ solly gratia

      If you follow Booker’s buddy Richard North over on EUReferendum, you’ll see that North has been putting it about that UKIP don’t have a plan, but he does. Booker may have bought into this. No love lost between North and Farage it seems.

    • ButcombeMan

      Does not Article 50 prescribe “Two years”?

      • Denis_Cooper

        That is prescribed as the maximum period for negotiations, at the end of which with or without an agreement being concluded the EU treaties would in any case cease to apply to the withdrawing country, unless that period is extended by agreement of all parties.

        • ButcombeMan

          Well that sounds like enough. It would concentrate minds.

    • Smithersjones2013

      Any plan for leaving the EU would be nothing more than crystal ball gazing. Just look at Cameron’s initial prevarications over recovering sovereignty and compare that with the submissive drivel; he is now peddling in its place. They bare no resemblance to each oother Its crystal clear that there are too many factors (i.e. too many who can interfere) for plans to be outlined. If Booker or anyone else wants a plan he would be better off consulting Mystic Meg……

  • starfish

    Maybe we could have some objective coverage from the bubble muppets after this election

    Starting with this news organ?

    • UniteAgainstSocialism

      That’d be nice but all the Lame Stream Media incl the speccie are going to do is scream waayyyycist, homophobes, bigots, fascists, sexists etc even more. Although this is annoying, it doesnt bother me that much because all it does is attract more ppl to UKIP. One would think that the muppets in the media incl the speccie would have learned this by now.

      • cromwell

        “One would think that the muppets in the media incl the speccie would have learned this by now.” No they haven’t and never will because they live in a bubble totally isolated from the majority people of Britain but they will soon be swept aside.

        Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget;

        For we are the people of England, that never have spoken yet.

        • Shorne

          Hmm…quote from a poem by Chesterton an alleged anti-Semite.

          • RichardBaranov

            “The world owes God to the Jews,” and “I will die defending the last Jew in Europe.” Remarks by Chesterton. Your slur doesn’t wash.

            • Shorne

              “His views, which crop up in the most unexpected contexts, were most fully expressed in an essay called ‘The Problem of Zionism’ — that’s where he suggests that Jews holding high public office should dress as orientals, to remind people of their allegiance and origin ” that’s a quote from that mad lefty publication called…The Spectator. Perhaps he would have approved of yellow stars.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                You mean, like the ones you hysterics want to put on UKIP voters?

              • RichardBaranov

                Perhaps you should read Chesterton’s essay, you obviously haven’t. It is easy to misquote by taking something out of context. But then I suspect you are not interested in context only in impugning a persons good name to score cheap points.
                My wife is Jewish so the likelihood that I would defend an anti-Semite is zero.

              • Fergus Pickering

                Everybody, but everybody, was anti-semitic then. With good reason, it might be said.

                • Shorne

                  Only by racist scum like you.

                • Kitty MLB

                  I would hold your tongue before someone chops it off with a sword and stuffs it where the sun doesn’t shine- got it, Shornie..

                • Shorne

                  OOO I’m scared – don’t be stupid

          • cromwell

            “Chesterton an alleged anti-Semite.” Whats your alleged point or is it just another smear campaign. Why every time the British people stand up for themselves are they accused of antisemitism?

            • Shorne

              They aren’t

              • Colonel Mustard

                Really? Then what is your “Hmm…quote from a poem by Chesterton an alleged anti-Semite.” supposed to imply?

                Hmm?

                • telemachus

                  Do not tread in waters you cannot possibly understand

                  *

                  You need to read his essay ‘The Problem of Zionism’ — that’s where he suggests that Jews holding high public office should dress as orientals, to remind people of their allegiance and origin — in which he says: ‘It is normal for the nation to contain the family. With the Jews the family is generally divided among the nations. This may not appear to matter to those who do not believe in nations…. But I literally fail to understand anybody who does believe in patriotism thinking that this state of affairs can be consistent with it. It is in its nature intolerable from a national standpoint, that a man admittedly powerful in one nation, should be bound to a man equally powerful in another nation by ties more personal even than nationality.’
                  And on

                • Colonel Mustard

                  What part of “Really? Then what is your “Hmm…quote from a poem by Chesterton an alleged anti-Semite.” supposed to imply?” did you fail to understand?

                • telemachus

                  I council folks to keep out of such dangerous debates
                  Your friend Jeremy Clarkson may give you analogies in straying into dangerous territory

                • oldestel

                  Oh for god’s sake stop the smearing,

                • Colonel Mustard

                  I don’t know Jeremy Clarkson. You, however, have missed the point.

                • telemachus

                  Read his brilliant article on the back of Today’s Sunday Times Review to understand

                • Colonel Mustard

                  No thanks. Never cared much for him,

                • Wessex Man

                  Do you take them to the council office then?

                • vieuxceps2

                  Counsel,Tele, not council.

                • vieuxceps2

                  But Chesterton was right wasn’t he? We do have citizens of different nations with allegiances ro citizens of other nations rather than to their own.

                • Shorne

                  A man is known by the company he keeps, or quotes. In the same poem Chesterton uses the line ‘clutched at a cringing Jew.@disqus_pq9jUd5Hjx:disqus

                • Colonel Mustard

                  But the company he keeps is not the point at all. Are you really trying to suggest that because Chesterton was allegedly anti-semitic anyone who quotes him must be too? That was the rather nasty insinuation in your comment. The quote had nothing to do with Chesterton’s views on the Jewish race either.

                  And for someone apparently hyper-sensitive to discrimination I’m surprised to find you frequently resort to the ageism and inverse racism of “angry old white men” in your comments.

                  Regarding your supposed conservative credentials I note that you have asserted that you campaigned for Labour in the 1980s (I never have – have never voted for them either) and that you have mentioned Labour winning the election in 2015 several times, almost in boastful fashion. This makes all your comments suspect as to their real motivation.

                • Shorne

                  UKIPs demographic is predominantly white and male and their anger is plan from the tone of many of their comments here and elsewhere. I did vote Tory in 2010 and I have voted Labour in the past. Which party you vote for is not a life long decision like which football team you support.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Really? You have statistical evidence for that demographic do you?

                  And even if you did have the phrase “angry old white men” conveys both ageism and racism. Why should their age and ethnicity be a burden to their views in a country where the public narrative includes trotted out phrases like “accommodating the needs of youth” and the “young vote”?

                  Oh yes, the anger here is palpable and is bound to be prevalent amongst some of the older generation who can remember what the UK used to be like before the cultural revolution and the EU and who feel disenfranchised and alienated by what has happened. You might disagree with them but they are citizens and voters too, entitled to their views and not to be denigrated for those views by reason of their age, gender or race. Can you see the hypocrisy in your position when you complain about UKIP bigotry and racism but then resort to hate phrases like “angry old white men”?

                  Of course you are not required to vote for a party for life (although many do) but campaigning is rather different from just voting and throws your whole “I’m not a socialist” stance into question.

                • Shorne

                  From YouGov
                  “Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young).”
                  I concede I should perhaps say men and women
                  Yes I campaigned for Labour over 30 years ago, I did a lot of things then that I wouldn’t do know especially after the fiasco of the 1983 election.
                  I was born in 1950 and remember ” what the UK used to be like” and have no desire to see it return.

          • Denis_Cooper

            Whatever you may think of the author the substance is valid.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Do you “people of the left” ever actually do anything to positively persuade your political argument? Or is it always going to be the negativity of creating enemies of all those who choose not to conform to your ideology and then smearing them to shut them up? Or forming mobs to disrupt their meetings? Why is it that your “morally superior” ideology always seems to require intimidation, coercion and oppression to advance it (q.v. Khan’s speech) and online advocates who specialise in sneering, patronising put downs?

            By all means continue with that and it might even gain you the power you crave. But the hatred and resentment of what you represent will grow. As all tyrannies have discovered.

            • Cyril Sneer

              If they need to smear and lie to maintain power then you know they’re in the wrong and that their time is coming to an end.

              • telemachus

                Why is pointing out moral repugnance smearing?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Because you are not “pointing it out”, you are alleging it with no evidence, even if we were to agree on a criteria for “moral repugnance”. Moral repugnance is something I feel about the Labour party and your constant lies on their behalf.

                • telemachus

                  Would you like a Romanian living next to you?
                  *
                  I am not interested in the answer
                  But I do ask you spare a thought for the reaction of the ordinary Romanian family faced with this question being screamed ot in our National Media

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Asks the person who sneers about “Little Englanders” here and describes them as a mongrel nation.

                • telemachus

                  I am proud that my ancestors which family myth traces back to Vortigern were fused firstly with the Scandinavians in Yorkshire and then the (French) Hugenot weavers who migrated via the Netherlands
                  All like minded people are proud to call themselves mogrels
                  All like minded people decry the political movements inducing us to turn in on ourselves, including Farage’s little englanders

                • Colonel Mustard

                  My stepdaughter thinks you are điên.

                • telemachus

                  I suspect like you I read all the works of RD Laing

                  *

                  Insanity – a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world

                  Or to expand

                  What we call ‘normal’ is a product of repression, denial, splitting, projection, introjection and other forms of destructive action on experience. It is radically estranged from the structure of being. The more one sees this, the more senseless it is to continue with generalized descriptions of supposedly specifically schizoid, schizophrenic, hysterical ‘mechanisms.’ There are forms of alienation that are relatively strange to statistically ‘normal’ forms of alienation. The ‘normally’ alienated person, by reason of the fact that he acts more or less like everyone else, is taken to be sane. Other forms of alienation that are out of step with the prevailing state of alienation are those that are labeled by the ‘formal’ majority as bad or mad.”

                • Colonel Mustard

                  R D Laing is not answerable for my stepdaughter’s opinion of you. And she has a sound basis for knowing first hand what communist oppression entails at all its stages.

                • telemachus

                  All of which might bring me to an illustrative example of nurture but not nature
                  But then you might take offence

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You presume too much. As always.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Oh come on, now.Like Bunbury Laing is quite exploded. Another crazy Scotsman.

                • telemachus

                  I recently re read Sanity Madness and the Family and again noted the parallels with our broken society

                • Kitty MLB

                  Its not broken for much longer. The economy is improving,
                  Wages are rising and education is improving. The only thing
                  that’s broken is Labour’s broken record of gloom.

                • telemachus

                  I give that the economy is improving
                  I refute that education is improving under Criminal Gove
                  Wages may be rising but most folk are burdened down by the horrendous cost of living
                  *
                  But that is not what is meant by the broken society
                  The very fact of the uneven improvement in economic well being engineered by Osborne is fracturing further our Society
                  Farage’s racist utterances are further fracturing our society
                  Need I go on?
                  *
                  PS MLB?

                • saffrin

                  The horrendous cost of living is the consequences of thirteen years of incompetent Labour Governance.
                  As for Farages racist utterances, he hasn’t made any.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  “Need I go on?”

                  Definitely not. Your audience is hostile. Your act risible. Your time past.

                • saffrin

                  It was your lot that introduced the secret family court.
                  How many children have you stolen now?
                  How many families have you wrecked?

                • oldestel

                  “All like minded people decry the political movements inducing us to turn in on ourselves, including Farage’s little englanders”

                  And I’m proud of my Jewish heritage Telemachus and I neither need nor want the support of two faced creeps who are playing the race card because it’s this weeks party line.

                • ButcombeMan

                  Huguenot

                  Write it out 50 times

                • telemachus

                  “After the revocation of the Edicts of Nantes about 200,000 Huguenots left France, settling in non-Catholic Europe including the Netherlands, hence the widely diverse spellings of their name in the same manner as William Shakspere”

                • ButcombeMan

                  You are just an ignorant socialist and I claim my 5 pounds.

                • telemachus

                  By definition Socialists are thinking people
                  And most are a deal more educated intelligent and knowledgable that the right wing demagogues that seem to have got so much currency over the last few months

                • Wessex Man

                  Yes they sit and think about 5 and 10 year plans and how many units (human beings) will be expended in the pursuit of the plan.

                • telemachus

                  And those plans will be fair to all in Society

                • vieuxceps2

                  Especially toCommissar Telemachus of course….

                • Hexhamgeezer

                  but not the dead ones…

                • saffrin

                  Just like the socialists Stalin and Hitler, Labour too have their mind control, hate inspired agenda based on their habitual lies.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Socialism – definition:- “a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

                  policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.

                  (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.”

                  Hmm. Can’t see “thinking people” in there although the third part does imply conniving and plotting for which there is plenty of empirical evidence in modern Britain.

                  Devious self-deluding liars would be a more accurate definition.

                • vieuxceps2

                  “By definition Socialists are thinking people”-Whose definition? Yours?

                • Bill_der_Berg

                  “By definition Socialists are thinking people”.

                  I’ll take your word for it, but I have yet to see a definition that covers such a diverse as Clement Attlee, Che Guevara, Karl Marx, Trotsky, and Lenin (To name but a few).

                • ButcombeMan

                  By definition socialism is about forcing conformity and destroying the human spirit (apart from the Leaders obviously).

                  It is for this reason that it is always doomed to fail

                • Wessex Man

                  Go and get your DNA checked tele babe and I’ll guarrantte you are the same thread as everyone in your street.

                  The question posed to Nigel Farage was would you rather live next door to a German Family or a load of Romanian Men, tell the truth for once in your life!

                • telemachus

                  My private views are irrelevant
                  Now you ask yourself what the equality and diversity folk would say if you posed or answered that question in a work email
                  Whether you were the Premier CEO or not

                • saffrin

                  Now you ask yourself is the success of UKIP in the polls because of Nazis like you that have put your equality and diversity folk in positions of influence and power in the first place.
                  Your thought control police are in every aspect of our daily lives. In all forms of media.
                  UKIP is the antidote to your Orwellian 1984.

                • Bill_der_Berg

                  None of the parties, except the perhaps the Greens, are basing their campaigns on noble motives. The main themes seem to be ‘Jobs, jobs, jobs’ and ‘Immigrants are beneficial to economy’. I

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Ouch.

                  That’s sure to leave a mark.

                • John Anderson

                  You cannot have a (singular) criteria (plural). Why is it that all you who “stand up for England” can’t even speak its language properly??

                • vieuxceps2

                  I stand up for England.I speak her language properly.There is nothing wrong with ” criteria for” etc. why should there not be more than one criterion for moral repugnance?

                • Colonel Mustard

                  What is this (singular) “all you who “stand up for England”” (plural)? I am one (singular) man (singular). Do I “stand up for England”? I used to stand up for the National Anthem in the theatre or cinema before the insidious Long March of the progressives replaced deference to Monarchy and Nation with deference to Political Correctness.

                  “Although criteria is sometimes used as a singular, esp. in speech, it is most often used as a plural in Standard English.” English evolves, which is why so many people now say “bored of” instead of “bored with” which jars in my ancient ears.

                  But I am typing not ‘speaking its language’ so I have corrected my typo to avoid any doubt.

                • auntyeleet

                  Typical leftist elite arrogance, patriotism doesn`t depend on perfect grammar.

            • global city

              and there is absolutely no chance that shorne will play any part in the dictatorship on behalf of the masses, so he will most likely end up in the gulg or put against the wall…. such is the prospect for 99% of stupid lefties should their utopian dream ever become real…. as has happened over and over again when the left gets it’s hands on power.

              Stupid Lefties.

              • telemachus

                There is an absolute need for a spell of left wing administration after untrammelled Capitalist Right Wing power to restore fairness
                IDS management of welfare is such that food banks are expandingbweekly

                • global city

                  Not really.

                  Why do you equate corporatist corruption with good old capitalism? We have had no real market based entrepreneurial dynamism in the UK for thirty years.

                • ButcombeMan

                  File on Four today. You should listen it might teach you a thing or two

          • vieuxceps2

            “Chesterton an alleged anti-Semite”- How does that affect his opinion of the English people, or indeed of anything, anything at all? Are we to cease to respect the works of all creative people because they didn’t like Jews? There’d be a bloody long list of them if so,and anyway, what’s special about any group of people that they should be immune from dislike?

            • Shorne

              Because of what it leads to.

        • GeeBee36_6

          And of course, sadly, they never will either. I recall these lines being trotted out when Bliar put in motion his vile and vindictive move to ban hunting. The Countryside Alliance got a million people to march. It was organised. It had the motive. It had English people aplenty who loved hunting with real passion. But, of course, they were English: people who ‘have not spoken yet’. They hadn’t in Chesterton’s time, and I’m certainly not holding my breath expecting them to do so any time soon.

          The English masses: feckless, supine, naturally repressed and natural born canon fodder, whose greatest stirring, when troubled, is to ‘make a nice cup of tea’.

          • Conway

            Until they snap.

            • telemachus

              But they will not snap
              They will kick
              And UKIP is that kick
              But as with the Saturday night mob, after the riot the wise councils and retribution of morning will come
              After Thursday Farage will begin to be seen for what he is
              A vapid failed City broker who has hitched himself to the base racist instincts of a section of England but who does not have the intellect to carry things through

              • Fergus Pickering

                Hardly a failed broker. He made enough money to giveit up and become a politician. I don’t call that failed. You, on the other hand. Have you ever earned any money except as a political hack in your greasy little life?

                • telemachus

                  And continue to make loads o money from my thriving SME
                  *
                  So Farage is a politician?
                  Or an evangelist?

      • telemachus

        waayyyycist, homophobes, bigots, fascists, sexists
        Yes Wilhelm for that is what you are
        You are headed to win on Thursday but then the backlash
        Ordinary thinking voters will be horrified when they finally realise that they are being lumped with your line above

        • Wessex Man

          see you are still pedalling your usual tripe, you must have something useful to do, like lick m/ilibands shoes.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Ha ha! Good one!

          • telemachus

            You should be hanging your head in shame now the overt racism of Farage is being trumpeted

            • Colonel Mustard

              You should be hanging your head in shame at how many “comments” you post here that are not original, informative or true. You dominate this site with lies.

            • Fergus Pickering

              You mean that he doesn’t like gypsies. Does anyone?

        • Raddiy

          “You are headed to win on Thursday but then the backlash”

          You can bet on it, after Thursday a 100% commitment to focus on exposing the rampant paedophilia in the Labour Party. Let’s see how all your voters feel when they start getting handouts of lists of convicted elected Labour paedophiles.

          http://labour25.com/

          Are you still a kiddly fiddling supporter by association, defending your paedo supporting mates Harriet Harman, Jack Dromey, Patricia Hewitt and Jack Straw.

          You lefties are going to get this rammed down your throats, metaphorically speaking of course, from the 26th May 2014 to the 2015GE, I would imagine many of your old supporters in the north will be wanting to string you all up by your kn*ckers by the time we have finished with your party.

          • telemachus

            That is a dead story started by Crosby to deflect the media from the Downing Street Rock debacle

            • global city

              But it isn’t…the fact that you so casually dismiss it as such reveals so much about what is horrible about your credo.

              • Colonel Mustard

                More creepo than credo to be honest.

              • telemachus

                You know well that Crosby induced Dacre to dredge up a 40 year old administrative story in an umbrella organisation to protect Cameron from the Labour front bench when Rock broke

            • Wessex Man

              Much like the dead stories constantly brought back to life about expelled UKip members who made the remarks while Tory and Labour members years ago!

          • Rtd Colonel

            Of course the famous tax minimiser and wife of one of PIE eaters saw nothing, heard nothing, said something – for which she later had to apologise: for the systemic abuse of Islington children in care – clearly just a coincidence that Blair made her Minister for Childrenn – Think Husband was dead by then or imagine the carnage!!!!

        • UniteAgainstSocialism

          telemachus,

          Ordinary thinking voters are voting UKIP. The fascist left like you will be horrified, everyone else will be celebrating that your reign of terror has come to an end

          • telemachus

            As noted
            Thursday will be the high point of Farage and his band of racists
            Thank the lord it does not matter
            UKIP will lose a good 15% from may22 to next May 7

            • Colonel Mustard

              We’ll see.

            • Fergus Pickering

              And you say so, therefore it is so.

            • Andrew Price

              UKIP will poll between 35% – 40% on Thursday , so if as you say they lose 15% at the General Election UKIP will still be a huge elephant in the room come next May.

          • telemachus

            I know quite well that in a short 5 years folks will wonder what all the fuss of UKIP and it’s vapid leader was about

        • oldestel

          I am proud of my jewish heritage Telemachus and I neither need nor want the support of two faced creeps like you who play the race card because it happens to be this weeks party line.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Oh I don’t think so, Tele. I really don’t think so. It’s your kind make us retch.

    • telemachus

      You mean really exposing the racial agenda of UKIP

      • starfish

        What racial agenda?

        Proof please not inuendo

        • Shorne

          UKIP is a member of the European Freedom and Democracy (EFD) group in the European Parliament. This consists of 10 parties of which UKIP is the largest. Let’s look at some of the others,
          Italian Northern League – one of their MEPs, Mario Borghezio frequently shouts (literally) racist comments in his speeches. Farage was panicked into an attempt to limit the PR fallout from comments made by Borghezio in praise of the ideas of Oslo mass murderer Anders Breivik, by threatening first to suspend UKIP’s membership of the EFD and then demanding Borghezio’s expulsion from it, if the Italian did not issue a full retraction and apology – only to sweep the whole matter under the carpet, without any such apology or retraction forthcoming, when Borghezio’s Lega Nord colleagues threatened to walk out en masse and bring about the end of the whole group (president: one N.Farage).
          Here’s another one “Giancarlo Gentilini, Lega Nord’s Mayor of Treviso said of immigrants, that “we should dress them up like hares and bang-bang-bang”.
          If any of UKIPs much vaunted Black or Asian candidates make it to Europe they might find themselves linked to men who have called Africans ‘Ourang outangs’

          Here’s somebody from the Slovak National party”Mr Slota – leader of the SNP – has described Slovak’s Hungarian minority as a “a tumour on the body of the Slovak nation”.

          And what of the True Finns?
          In April 2009, all the leaders of Finland’s political parties signed a declaration condemning racism. Only Soini [Leader of the True Finns]refused to sign.

          I could go on but space wouldn’t permit.

          Press Statement by Nikki Sinclaire MEP

          “In protest against violent right-wing extremism, I resigned from UKIP’s political group in the European Parliament, the Europe of Freedom & Democracy (EFD). I particularly cited the racism and homophobia prevelant in the Italian Lega Nord. As a result of my stand, I had the UKIP party whip withdrawn by the party leadership.”

          UKIP racist ? “Every man is like the company he is wont to keep.” Euripides

          • Colonel Mustard

            But no actual policy evidence. Just more smearing.

            Your Labour party is pretty much affiliated here to Stalin, Mao and Honecker courtesy of telemachus.

            • Shorne

              It amuses me that you and others assume I’m some sort of communist, I voted Tory in 2010 and I used to work in a prison, not usually hotbeds of socialism among the staff or the prisoners. I have never sung ‘The Red Flag’ in my life, I don’t know the words.
              I would be astonished if UKIP had blatant racist policies. UKIP represent the thin end of a very unpleasant wedge, as recognised eventually by Nikki Sinclair, and provides a conduit for people who hold views as extreme as those you condemn ‘the Left’ for. One only has to read some of the comments here to see that
              I would be very surprised if UKIP doesn’t ‘win’ the European and local elections. However even if they win all the UK seats in the EU parliament it wouldn’t change much as that’s only 10% of the whole. What I think is the most interesting recent poll is the one which showed that if there was an in/out referendum on the UK’s EU membership then, for the first time there would be a 6% majority for staying in.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                It’s an interesting poll because you agree with it, and anybody who disagrees with you is a waaaaycist, is that it, lad?

                • Shorne

                  No it’s interesting because it’s the first time that there has been a majority for ‘staying in’. By the way why does the UKIP claque seem to think that those who oppose them have speech impediments?

                • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

                  Complete rubbish: since 1984 (no joke!) there has nearly always been a majority for staying in, certainly on the IpsosMORI trend

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, it’s interesting because it agrees with you, I’d say. By the way, why do all you hysterics always shriek “waaaaaaycist” at anybody who disagrees with you?

                • Wessex Man

                  I bet if you were to ask the 26 million people out of work, if they had the chance to vote in or out of Europe any time soon, they would all vote out.

                  Don’t really care about your polls, by the time the GE comes around, after another year of zero growth in the Euro Zone with France rapidly falling and probably needing a bail out, I confidently predict that we will be in the majority of any poll.

              • Denis_Cooper

                Cameron has fed people with the false hope that he can sort out our problems with the EU without it being necessary for us to actually leave it, see my comment on the Observer article further up the thread.

              • Ricky Strong

                Who defines that wedge, who defines what is unpleasant, who defines what is extreme?

                • Shorne

                  History

                • Wessex Man

                  Answer the question!

                • Shorne

                  I did, read some books.

                • Shorne

                  Have you worked in a prison?

                • Shorne

                  Sorry meant for ‘Smithersjones2013@

                • Wessex Man

                  have you, I only ask because you make such a meal of the fact.

              • Smithersjones2013

                Its amusing that you think working in a prison excludes you from left wing views.

                • Wessex Man

                  or indeed voting Tory in 2010!

              • Colonel Mustard

                “It amuses me that you and others assume I’m some sort of communist”

                Perhaps it has something to do with your comments and your approach to disagreeing with people…

                Plenty of socialists flying false flags and burrowing into the Tory party these days. That is all part of the plan.

              • Fergus Pickering

                I know the words of ‘The Red Flag’. I thought everybody did.

            • telemachus

              Hear Sanya-Jeet Thandi, a UKIP insider
              “when I joined three years ago. Ukip’s immigration policy, to me, was all about equality for every nationality; it was about treating Europeans and people outside the EU equally. But the recent racism scandals suggest, it seems, that most other Ukip voters and members support the policy – and the party – for a very different reason………..but Ukip is straying further and further from the policies that attracted so many of its original supporters, instead cynically pursuing ever more aggressive anti-immigrant rhetoric.”

              • Colonel Mustard

                Still not policy just the opinion of one person.

                “suggest”, “it seems”, etc.

                You asserted they are a “racist” party (something your Labour shadow ministers, including Yvette Cooper, refuted on national TV. Well, where are their racist policies? Still waiting.

                Or are you shilling for the SWP now?

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Yes, it is an organized campaign, this hysterical “waaaaaaycism” shrieking you nutters are onto.

          • Denis_Cooper

            UKIP does not “want” to keep that company, it is only “wont” to do so because otherwise it cannot form an officially recognised group under the EU Parliament rules as amended in line with the proposal from the federalist Labour MEP Richard Corbett.

            And after these elections it may be the Tory party which needs those nasty True Finns for the same reason:

            http://www.independent.co.uk/n

            “The ECR could collapse because many of its MEPs face defeat this week, meaning it will fall short of the requirement for members from seven EU countries.

            The True Finns – whose leader, Timo Soini, once said “fair immigration is an oxymoron” – and the Danish People’s Party – whose spokesman once likened the Muslim headscarf to the **** s*******a – are currently members of Ukip’s group.”

            So then you’d be able to have a go at the Tories over that.

          • Raddiy

            I think before you go on a rant, and expose yourself to be a right plonker you need to get your research up to date.

            It is common knowledge that all the moral high ground prancing around by your Conservative party friends in denying they would have anything to do with the Danish Peoples Party, or the True Finns, has been just so much hot are. Both groups who were beyond the pale, are now the acceptable face of the right wing according to the Conservative Party.

            http://www.policyreview.eu/its-ukips-eu-group-that-is-under-threat-not-the-tories/

            But hey, don’t let your rampant hypocrisy get in the way of political expediency, when it suits.

            • Denis_Cooper

              Thanks for that link.

              It says:

              “It’s central thesis was that the Tories will struggle to obtain enough support in the new EP to form a political group.”

              but of course it is likely that the principle problem for both the Tories and UKIP will not be getting “enough support” numerically but getting “support spread across at least seven countries” without enrolling MEPs with old-fashioned and in some cases unsavoury views.

              I will have less sympathy for the Tories if they find themselves boxed in like that than I will have for UKIP, simply because the Tories were strongly in favour of enlarging the EU to include countries where social attitudes were and still are a generation or two behind the west while UKIP opposed that enlargement.

          • Conway

            The way the EU works you have to group together in order to get heard. It leads to some pretty strange mixtures.

            • Denis_Cooper

              That is the way that the federalist EPP and the federalist PES have deliberately designed it to force dissidents into strange mixtures leaving some participants in a group open to charges of being guilty by association with some other participants.

              Go back fifteen years, and it was possible for enough MEPs from one country to form their own official group in the EU Parliament, and in fact at that time after the 1999 elections
              the Tories had enough MEPs to do that but chose to join up with the federalist EPP instead.

              Since then the rules have been gradually and deliberately changed so that any official group must be multinational, with the present rule going most of the way towards a proposal promoted by the then Labour MEP Richard Corbett, who is at present employed as an adviser to van Rompuy but hopes to get back in as an MEP at this election.

              That rule states:

              http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/007f2537e0/Political-groups.html

              “25 Members are needed to form a political group, and at least one-quarter of the Member States must be represented within the group.”

              This move was not primarily intended to make it more difficult for UKIP to become part of an official group without including MEPs from countries where substantial numbers of people still hold old-fashioned and in some cases unsavoury views, although it certainly has that effect; as a federalist himself Corbett’s main aim was to keep the Tory party tied in with the federalist EPP where its influence could be neutralised.

              http://europeanfoundation.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/parliament-restricts-european-political.html

              “It seems that such amendments to the European parliament’s rules of procedure were almost designed to target eurosceptic groups.”

        • Wessex Man

          There will be no answer as usal.

      • Colonel Mustard

        You have been requested before to provide evidence of a UKIP “racist” policy and you dodged that with more smears, confirming that the Labour party is the party of lies, lying and liars.

        • Andy

          He is a member of the Fascist Labour Party. We therefore know he is a liar, a rouge and a Traitor.

          • Shorne

            I bet he can spell rogue though.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Sticking up for your leftist fellow traveller, eh lad?

              Oh that’s right, you’re a “conservative”, as you told us earlier. I must have forgot.

              • Colonel Mustard

                They are incredibly stupid. telemachus can’t even disguise his unique and distinctive style when he pretends to be someone else.

            • Wessex Man

              I bet you can spell liar but what’s that got to do with it?

            • Fergus Pickering

              Well, he’s a rogue and a rouge too. As in Khmer Rouge

        • telemachus

          Read Farage’s comments over the last 3 days on Rumania
          Go to Toxteth and gauge the reaction around the mosque to the billboards

          • Colonel Mustard

            POLICY. Not your lying spin. Not the reaction of others. You describe them as a “racist party” and have been comparing them to the BNP. Prove it.

            • telemachus

              Hear Sanya-Jeet Thandi, a UKIP insider
              (reformed)

              “when I joined three years ago. Ukip’s immigration policy, to me, was all about equality for every nationality; it was about treating Europeans and people outside the EU equally. But the recent racism scandals suggest, it seems, that most other Ukip voters and members support the policy – and the party – for a very different reason………..but Ukip is straying further and further from the policies that attracted so many of its original supporters, instead cynically pursuing ever more aggressive anti-immigrant rhetoric.”

              • Colonel Mustard

                Posting the same comment twice won’t change the fact that you cannot evidence their alleged “racist” policy.

                It just confirms what a little propaganda parrot you are.

                Squawk, squawk…

          • UniteAgainstSocialism

            Go to the rest of Liverpool and gauge the reaction from working class Labour voters to that mosque being there.

          • Cyril Sneer

            You again fail to respond to the point made. Heard of the boy who cried wolf? That’s you and your ilk and you know what people are just not listening any more.

          • Colonel Mustard

            “Farage said he stood by his claim that Romanians were more likely to be criminals and denied that they were racist. “The unfortunate reality is that we are in political union with a post-communist country that has become highly susceptible to organised crime,” he said.

            “Where there are differential crime rates between nationalities, it is perfectly legitimate to point this out and to discuss it in the public sphere and I shall continue to do so.

            “Police figures are quite clear that there is a high level of criminality within the Romanian community in Britain. This is not to say for a moment that all or even most Romanian people living in the UK are criminals.

            “But it is to say that any normal and fair-minded person would have a perfect right to be concerned if a group of Romanian people suddenly moved in next door.”

            vs

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2515917/Police-hunt-Romanian-ATM-thieves-90-UK-cashpoint-fraud.html

            And so?

          • fubarroso

            i think you mean Romania. “Go to Toxteth”? Isn’t that in Piddlepool? Whatever for?

      • Cyril Sneer

        Smears & lies. The left wing no longer try to debate, they smear. You’re out of answers and out of time.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          They never have tried to debate. The left has always lied, smeared and spun.

    • global city

      The MoS article by James today confirms James as being fully paid up to the establishment cause.

    • Richard N

      Propaganda organ, you mean – like all of the UK’s media, universally controlled by the EU and its liblabcon running dogs.

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