Coffee House

Miliband says he’ll stick to his convictions in post-election fightback

27 May 2014

6:38 PM

27 May 2014

6:38 PM

Moments of grumpiness aside, Ed Miliband’s fightback speech this afternoon was very worth listening to.

The Labour leader did want to say that he understood voters’ concerns, but that this didn’t mean he was going to change his current stance on immigration or Europe. It was a brave speech in that respect, and in that he decided to talk about and name Ukip, which is something that other politicians continue to shy away from doing.

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But Miliband also talked about those who did not vote. He said:

‘And millions of people now feel that our country does not work for them, politics does not listen to them and cannot answer them. They believe the people who work hard, try and support their families and build a better future have been left behind, and the major parties work for others and not them.

‘Some of those voted for Ukip in these elections. And far more people did not vote at all. These are challenges for all political parties.’

Clearly Miliband diagnoses the problem with politics as wider than just the proportion of the electorate who backed Ukip. He sees the protest registered by those who didn’t vote at all.

This was the key passage in his speech about what the problem was. And in Miliband’s mind, it’s bigger than just immigration:

‘Let me tell you how I see it. More than anything it is about the big economic change we have seen. The industry of our country, the docks near here, the mines in Doncaster, my constituency, provided a decent wage, a decent life, a decent pension.

‘A job was not just a job. It was the foundation of community. And about thirty years ago these secure jobs with good prospects started to disappear. And they weren’t replaced by similar jobs for the future. At the same time, immigration has been changing communities fast, including here in Thurrock, with people seeking to build a better life here.

‘And the pace of change is quicker than it has ever been. So over the last decades there were big changes happening in our country. And fewer and fewer working people thought the country worked for them. That was made worse when political scandals happened, like MPs’ expenses.

‘And as a result by 2010, too many came to think that no party was standing up for them, including Labour. You in Thurrock know that the last Labour government did great things: rescuing our NHS, investing in schools and supporting working families with tax credits. But they were not enough by themselves.

‘Because ordinary working people, people who weren’t rich, felt life was getting harder. Our embrace of the future meant that some people thought we didn’t respect the loss they felt from the past.’

He didn’t toughen up Labour’s immigration policy from its current position, but instead argued that those who said ‘Labour has been too radical’ were ‘dead wrong’.

What’s Miliband up to here? Why isn’t he panicking and announcing tougher immigration policies or U-turning on an EU referendum? Well, he’s sticking by the courage of his convictions, or his ‘intellectual self-confidence’, as he likes to call it. At the Speccie, we’d rather the Conservatives had the same courage (but different convictions), but Miliband does deserve credit for realising that he’s better off being distinctively Milibandesque, rather than trying to convince voters he’s something else.


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Show comments
  • evad666

    You can tell they are worried look at the colour of their ties.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    At least we know that Ed Miliband is going to stick to his guns. The rest of his speech will be forgotten in a few days.

  • http://semipartisansam.com/ SemiPartisanSam

    If this is brave, I’d hate to see what cowardice looks like. Did you actually listen to Ed Miliband’s definition of “One Nation”? One hundred and fourteen words that say absolutely nothing:

    http://semipartisansam.com/2014/05/28/one-nation-the-intellectual-bankruptcy-of-the-labour-party/

    Forgive me, but I’m not going to bow down and praise someone for their political courage when all they have done is hedge their bets by waffling on about a political philosophy that is so broad it could mean absolutely anything.

  • jesseventura2

    Take a look at what some labour councils in Wales are doing?
    They are sending teenage white kids on courses telling them to accept the muslim immigrants?

    Cart before the horse by the labour and lib dem luvvies?
    Why not courses for the medieval uneducated immigrant on civilisation?
    No muslim grooming gangs caught in welsh run labour areas?

  • mrs1234

    Erm I am not saying that Manchester city centre is a dump but its suburbs (many of them where once really nice places to live) are in a state of terminal decline from decades of neglect – but that’s Labour councils for you eh?

  • Peter Stroud

    How can Miliband change his mind? He has to obey those who ensured his election: the trade union bosses. Pro EU, more foreign workers causing a disgruntled indigenous workforce, hence increased unionisation.

    • Mynydd

      Of course the hedge fund owner who give Call me Dave £1,500,000 did it for the good of the country.

  • Blindsideflanker

    I thought a European Judge had ruled that you didn’t have to stand by your convictions, you can now get them deleted by Google.

  • Raddiy

    Vacuous nonsense, Milliband is in the same position that David Cameron was three years ago, in total denial and consumed by his own arrogance in ignoring the public on immigration.

    Carry on Mr Milliband you will be a fine recruitment sergeant for UKIP, we will continue to trash you and take your support upto 2015, and in the event you manage to scrape into office next year, your certain incompetence and continued arrogance will ensure your fate is already certain.

  • 70sgirly

    When this privileged effete moron delivers a speech, clearly written by the latest party whizz kid in that strange formulaic politico speak, I find it hard not to throw up. Included, as always is the odd real world phrase like “dead wrong” to connect with the working class even though their policies have cr@pped on the working class and he’s basically saying they’ll carry on doing exactly the same if elected.

    UKIP gained many votes from lifelong labour voters in the European Parliament elections because people have woken up to what this means for them in their lives and they don’t like it. I don’t expect Miliband to change Labour’s policy on this one inch, he doesn’t give a sh*t.

    • Shazza

      I fervently hope that he does not change his position. I still believe that UKIP has maxed out the Conservative vote, and providing Cameron doesn’t do something stupid pre 2015 election, then the vast majority of us who voted UKIP in the EU elections (to send message) will return to the Conservatives. Milliband doesn’t realise that for voters like me, the thought of Labour having a rerun of their 13 year Reign of Terror is the stuff of nightmares. If that were to happen then it really is RIP GB.

      By not changing his position will be manna from heaven for UKIP who know just how disgusted and betrayed the old Labour supporting working class is by these Bolinger Bolsheviks and they will reap a great harvest from these rich pickings in the North and Wales – did anybody not notice just how close UKIP came, percentage wise to defeating Wales in the EU vote? I wonder why nobody in the BBC/MSM thinks it worth discussing. Head in sand…..

      Carry on Ed – we True Blues are cheering for you!

      • the viceroy’s gin

        That’s a nice fantasy, but in 11.25 months, Call Me Dave’s head is going to be mounted on a spike. The Camerloons are finished, unless they change course. The Millipede just has to wait and tweak matters as necessary, as the Camerluvvies implode.

  • chudsmania

    Run that by me again ? He’s listening , but still thinks the EU is the dogs wotsits. So he isnt actually listening at all then. Anyone would think he’s a politician.

  • Laguna Beach Fogey

    Is Miliband even English?!

    • telemachus

      Very Farage

      • Kennybhoy

        This would be the Farage with the German wife and half German weans?

        Disgusting wee troll!

      • Hexhamgeezer

        Imbecile

    • Kennybhoy

      Mentula!

  • Lucy Sky Diamonds

    Convictions? errrr

    • Smithersjones2013

      Well I do agree that Miliband, like most Labour politicians, should be convicted of something………

      • Andy

        High Treason do ?

  • Greenslime

    More tripe from Isabel! I only hope that she writes this nonsense to provoke debate and that she does not really believe it.

    So what Moribund said today was that he has listened to what the public are saying, understands but we can all sod off because he is right and the public is wrong.

    The fact that the meeting was packed with bussed in Labour supporters just adds to the insult. He is not interested in discussion. He is after stage managed situations which show happy clappy socialists watching on in adoration as Ed does weird.

    • Andy

      Indeed. A veritable Nuremberg Rally.

    • Kennybhoy

      “I only hope that she writes this nonsense to provoke debate and that she does not really believe it.”

      Ahem. She is a journalist. This is the Spectator… :-)

    • Hexhamgeezer

      She writes it because she wants a BBC job.

  • Smithersjones2013

    What’s Miliband up to here? Why isn’t he panicking and announcing tougher immigration policies or U-turning on an EU referendum?

    What’s he up to? Misdirection……

    The MISFIT has read Ashcroft’s marginals poll and presumably his own marginal polling and it tells him he’s winning where he needs to so in reality his attitude is ‘screw all those in UKIP and who are not voting. I’m not changing a thing. I’m going to win the top job in politics anyway’!

    Even Dizzy should be able to work that politicians only change policy when their jobs are at risk. The MISFIT’s is not…..

    • Kennybhoy

      Spot on analysis.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      That’s an interesting theory, but Ashcroft is a muppet and that can’t be the foundation of anybody’s serious politicking. You’ll only know for sure when UKIP’s and the Millipede’s electoral strategies reveal themselves. That won’t happen for a while, until these elections get digested. For now, it’s fully expected that the Millipede would say and do little, because that’s the smart play, as he’s clearly ahead right now.

      • Kennybhoy

        Strangely opaque and evasive response auld yin…?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …well, if a drunkard is reading it, yes.

          • Kennybhoy

            Change the record auld yin…

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …well, after you nod off maybe.

      • Kennybhoy

        Why is your Disqus activity locked auld yin?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …what are you jabbering about now, lad?

  • RavenRandom

    Courage of his convictions? The man’s a fratricidal crook fronting a bankrupt party of gerrymandering liars.

  • DaveTheRave

    They still don’t get it, do they? Actually they do – it’s just that nothing CAN stop the juggernaut heading towards the Marxist/Totalitarian Superstate which is the EU. The elite know it, we still think we can get out of it, but we may have already gone beyond the point of rescue… without a struggle.

    • Smithersjones2013

      Every empire in history has come to an end. Some relatively calmly as the British Empire and some in mayhem and anarchy as the Roman Empire but they all ended.

      The only question is how long the EU will last? However long it does last it will be in decline from now until it does.

      • Andy

        I fear – upon my soul I fear – that the EU will end with a long and very bloody War. And the seed of its destruction it itself sowed – it was the Euro.

        • Kennybhoy

          Alas I tend to agree.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Who’s going to war over the euro? Not a chance.

          Club Med will eventually default, and what are the Brussels muppets going to do, send down the panzers and mirages? Dream on.

          • Kennybhoy

            “Who’s going to war over the euro?”

            Not over the Euro per se but over the effects of it’s collapse…

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …sorry, but empty blathering isn’t of value. Hopefully you’ll sober up today and provide something useful besides “effects of it’s collapse”.

          • Andy

            I didn’t say they would go to ‘war over the Euro’. What I said was the Euro might be the seed for war. Not quite the same thing.

        • Smithersjones2013

          Nah! probably the Euro will go through an extended period of weakening with currency hawks using it to line their pockets until the major players in the EU call time on it much in the way that Major and Lamont called time on the ERM and with it will go the EU as we know it…..

          It won’t happen tomorrow but chances are it will happen…..

          • Kennybhoy

            Not over the Euro per se man but over the side effects of it’s collapse or even, in your scenario, prolonged decline and fall.

            Mass youth unemployment + mass immigration and it’s effects + rise of genuinely extreme parties on the Continent = a pretty explosive mix

      • Kennybhoy

        Remind me. How long was Rome’s decline before the fall…?

    • Hexhamgeezer

      We fight. The result has not been pre-ordained.

      • Kennybhoy

        Sound man. And even if we are doomed well… :-)

        “At last one came running, and told them all was lost: that the powers of darkness had besieged the Heavenly Mansions, that Odin was to die, and evil triumph.

        “I have been grossly deceived,” cried the virtuous person.

        “All is lost now,” said the priest.

        “I wonder if it is too late to make it up with the devil?” said the virtuous person.

        “Oh, I hope not,” said the priest. “And at any rate we can but try. But what are you doing with your axe?” says he to the rover.

        “I am off to die with Odin,” said the rover.”

        Excerpted from “Faith, Half Faith and No Faith At All” by Robert Louis Stevenson

        http://www.authorama.com/fables-16.html

  • Makroon

    Ms Hardman is being naive.
    This wasn’t “courage”, it was a Labour leader realising that he is losing the white, working-class vote to UKIP, and making up a flattering tale of yet more victimhood to try to schmooze them back into the fold.
    It won’t wash, Labour left this demographic years ago, turning them into benefit supplicants.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …so sorta like the detoxified Camerloons then?

  • Bill_der_Berg

    Do politicians ever say that they have decided to abandon their convictions? This was Ed Miliband’s declared aim as of last September. Has he changed it? Who can tell?

    “Curbs on non-EU immigration will be a key priority for an incoming Labour government, Ed Miliband has told the BBC’s Andrew Marr show.

    The Labour leader outlined plans to reduce the number of low-skilled migrants
    coming to Britain”.

    “.

    • Mynydd

      Remember that the last Labour government stopped unskilled workers from non-EU countries coming to the UK, and introduced a points system to control the number of the rest, which is still in use today.

  • ohforheavensake

    So the man’s got principles. Good for him.

    • Smithersjones2013

      No he hasn’t. He’s just able to read Ashcroft’s marginals poll.

      • Kennybhoy

        Again. Spot on.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        No, he’s just a better politician than Dave, who is a brainless muppet. The Millipede is holding his nerve.

        • Smithersjones2013

          You seriously think that misfit is an improvement on Cameron? You have gone down in my estimation!!!!!!

          • the viceroy’s gin

            They’re all muppets, if that’s what you’re asking. It’s impossible to claim any one of them is an “improvement” on another. They are different degrees of incompetence and failure. They are LibLabCon socialists, every one.

            Millipede is holding his nerve. Dave is skittering around like a ferret on crack. That is all undeniable. You’re right, it’s easier for the Millipede to hold his nerve when Call Me Dave is gifting him the game, but he’s taking advantage of the situation, and we see how Dave has thrown away advantage at every turn. On the muppet performance scale, the Millipede is out-muppeting Dave for sure.

        • Kennybhoy

          Telemachus in disguise! :-)

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Every one of you tribalist LibLabConsters thinks conservatives are the antichrist, lad. It’s normal for you.

    • Hexhamgeezer

      crib sheet man strikes again

  • Bluesman_1

    Citizen Hardman, can you provide a transcript in English please? The one provided above appears to be written in fluent bollox.

  • global city

    By twisting what Farage says and UKIP are offering he is able to maintain the arguments of the late 90s’… he even had Blair to back the sentiments of Blair!

    I must say that the idea of membership of the EU being outward looking and internationalist amuses me. Only in the crazy world of Marxist perspective analysis could it be considered a logical stance.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …and CP Dave seems to agree with them.

      • global city

        Exactly.

  • keith

    What did Miliband say, nothing, the usual platitudes, we understand, we know your worried etc, what he meant was, we know best and you will have to get used to it, your just a protest vote.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …yes, but that’s what all of LibLabCon says, isn’t it?

    • 2trueblue

      He was very concerned and said I hear you but this is what I think……..
      I am the one who matters and what I think is what more important than any message you think you are sending me. Blab,blab, blab, blab.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …so, same as the rest of LibLabCon, then.

  • Mynydd

    The phrase, post-election fightback, would be better applied to Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg rather than Mr Miliband. After all it was Cameron/Clegg that lost councils, councillor and MEPs. It would have been more appropriate to say; post-election Mr Miliband will continue to build on gains he made in the local and European elections.

    • Alexsandr

      getter get building fast then. he still has a mountain to climb. he is not nearly enough in the lead to be sure of a win in 2015. UKIP could chomp away at his core vote and the economy wont help -labour have been so wrong on finance.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …and Dave has been wrong on everything, too. That’s the Millipedes’ secret weapon… the Camerloons. They seem to be the gift that keeps on giving.

        • Kennybhoy

          I sometimes think that you are a more effective Labour sockpuppet than Tele and co…

          • the viceroy’s gin

            I don’t think the word “sockpuppet” means quite what you think it means, lad.

            • Kennybhoy

              Okay auld yin! Forgive my imprecision. Substitute mole for sockpuppet.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …let’s wait ’til you sober up before we edit the drivel, lad.

                • Kennybhoy

                  Ad hominem caca.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …like I say…

      • Kennybhoy

        “UKIP could chomp away at his core vote…”

        Aye but in places where he can afford it. Not so for the Conservatives in key marginals…

      • Mynydd

        Not as big a mountain as Mr Cameron, and Mr Farage is not even in the foot hills.

  • Swiss Bob

    Ed Miliband’s fightback speech this afternoon was very worth listening to.

    Best joke I’ve heard all day.

    • Andy

      It’s the way she tells ’em.

  • Hexhamgeezer

    If Farage gets in on any 2015 election debates he will destroy this fraudulent evasive nonentity.

    • global city

      He could easily expose their coded words and weasel sentiments, so he will not be allowed to.

      The political class have confined themselves to a false debate now, as all of them have labelled any discussion of number, pace or control of migration, which is what Farage has promoted as racist, prejudiced and xenophobic, so they will have to discuss the issue from inside their boxes.

    • Kennybhoy

      Your faith in reason is touching man…:-(

      • Hexhamgeezer

        I was’ nae suggestin’ he would turn the electoral/demographic tide – only that he would clearly destroy those cnuts live.

        • Kennybhoy

          Sorry man, I obviously read too much into your comment. The sentiment was sincere tho’ . Ah wisnae havin’ a go.

  • Reconstruct

    Look, there is a problem here which Miliband is not only right to highlight, but right to believe that, if there is any justification for having the current behemoth-sized State, it is that it might attempt to deal with it.

    He’s absolutely not wrong that the social and – yes – ethical certainties which the economy used to be presumed to support, have gone. And they have not been replaced.

    Specifically, the implicit quid-pro-quo of a liberalized labour market is that the owners of capital would thereby feel more confident to invest capital, which in turn would raise productivity. And the fruits of that rising productivity would then be something we might argue over/negotiate.

    But that has not happened, and is not happening. Instead, we are in a situation where there is pitifully little investment in productivity-raising capital – in fact the capital-per-worker is now probably falling. If you can bear the wording, the ‘capitalists’ are not fulfilling their part of the bargain.

    Now, you can tell yourself that this is all part of what globalization means, if you want. But what comfort is that to British workers who are working more, and harder, with less capital behind them, and generally an environment which is economically, socially and financially less secure?

    Of course, Mr Miliband’s ‘solutions’ are very likely to be disastrous and ruinous – one would expect nothing less from a socialist. But conservatives, including free marketeers, should recognize that he has identified and, in his own way articulated, something that is a very real problem. Now, discuss. . . .

    • Alexsandr

      would you invest your capital with the possibility of a ruinous labour government next year? Me, I’d sot on my cash and wait and see what happens next year.

      • Kennybhoy

        Personally I favour gold and/or moving it overseas…

    • nickpeters

      Aleksandr is spot on. Capital cannot be strongarmed. Right now we have question marks over interest rates, EU, the Union AND a potential left wing government next year. In the past capitalists would tend to get back into the game at the sound of the first post-recession cuckoo but the length of this recession and the unique congruence of unsettling political events (did I mention Ukraine, South China Sea etc?) means this time they are far more nervous than usual. I might reasonably say ‘But if you unlock all that can on your balance sheets, you will positively reinforce the recovery and we will all win!’ I might say that, but of course it’s not my money.

      • Reconstruct

        I hear what you say, but I’ve got to tell you that there are similar phenomena all over the developed world – the US, Japan, Europe etc. So it’s not just political uncertainty that’s the cause, or perhaps not just the political uncertainties you mention.

        Basically, all over the world, capitalists have stopped investing. It genuinely is a problem. Now, given that attempts to strongarm it are likely to be counterproductive, what can/should be done? Or do we pretend that this is not an issue to be addressed. Because, if you believe that, what ethical justification is there for a massive State.

        • Alexsandr

          one could encourage them to peer to lend -like funding circle. then if a company cant see an investment opportunity in house, then it could lend to others.

          • Reconstruct

            Certainly there’s every chance that peer-to-peer lending will do a better job of allocating capital than commercial banks can. But if you look at the surveys, it’s not the supply of lending that’s the issue, it;s the demand for funds – it’s the willingness to invest that’s the problem.

          • Kennybhoy

            Define “encourage”…?

            • Alexsandr

              tax incentives. allow bad debts to be offset against interest income. or just talk about them.

        • Kennybhoy

          “Because, if you believe that, what ethical justification is there for a massive State.”

          Er… none…?

    • anyfool

      Blair and Brown destroyed any latent correlation between the capitalist system and duty to the state and people where it operated.
      Brown especially because of his ever need for more cash slowly removed any restraint on the City and manufacturing, bringing in cheap labour while keeping his client state quiet with tax credits.
      Tax credits that removed the last vestiges of moral responsibility of employers to pay a decent wage, to such an extent we even now have the armed forces living on tax credits.

      • Reconstruct

        Interesting thesis – and not one I’d disagree with off the bat. Now, how do we fix it?

        • anyfool

          Stop all immigration except for people with a high technical ability, we have plenty workers, make them work.
          Cut all benefits like tax credits slowly over the next ten years, do this as you raise the tax threshold and minimum wage ahead of inflation.
          A start but the real progress will come when benefits correlate to what you pay in.
          Tie the corporate tax rates to the wage structure, something on the higher the lowest pay rate the bigger the offset allowances.
          After all with higher wages the government would generate more in indirect tax like vat.
          There are myriad ways, probably beyond my pay grade, but it would have to be simple with draconian penalties including prison for corporate fiddling.

          • Reconstruct

            These sound like good constructive ideas, none of which have taken you more than five minutes thought to develop. How come our political establishment has so far not only managed not to understand the problem, let alone offer potential solutions?

            I think this is a real indictment of the current government. God help us if we’re going to have to experience the multiple cock-ups to be offered by the Labour party. What does the Conservative party do with its time, to avoid encountering these issues?

            • anyfool

              Thinking is in short supply among our politicians, they all think the same because the education is delivered by unthinking clones who preach not teach.
              The teachers are avid little disciples of the education colleges, they go about their job with shining eyes as they indoctrinate children in the latest orthodoxy, that is the ones who can be bothered.

              • Andy

                I would start by reducing Corporation Tax – abolish it actually – and just tax withdrawals from companies.
                Next lets look at National Insurance – it is a tax on jobs.
                Freeze Tax Credits and allow them to wither away.
                Major reform of the benefits system – and many of IDS reforms are working and many long term unemployed are gradually getting back into work. And about time.
                Bring in a Flat Tax.
                That will do for today.

                • Kennybhoy

                  Again Andy, all good stuff. But electoral suicide…

          • Kennybhoy

            All good stuff man but try getting elected in this country on such a manifesto…

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …yes, better to stick with global warmingism, VAT increases, massive spending, homosexual marriage, bombs away in Libya and elsewhere, windmills everywhere and the HS2 spending madness, like Call Me Dave has cleverly worked out.

  • Colonel Mustard

    Slippery and duplicitous. Trying to dodge how his party deliberately changed this country for ever with a sly insinuation that it is somehow all the Tories and especially Thatcher to blame.

    13 years of New Labour and what do they claim credit for – saving the NHS (it wasn’t), investing in schools (they didn’t) and “supporting working families with tax credits” (© Brown). What does the oxymoronic invention of “tax credits” even mean? This was not any kind of bravery but just a regurgitating of the same old force fed tripe that makes up Labour’s utterly bogus but tediously repeated hymn sheet of lies and delusion, over which the whole sorry gang commune in a deranged quasi-religious mass. Like some barmy cult.

    One of his semi-literate groupies whined about countering “Tory lies”. Any concern about lying and lies ought be closer to home. Miliband’s stance is blatantly dishonest and breathtakingly arrogant but instead of delivering a few home truths to this underwhelming non-entity sailing under his father’s colours the wet and suborned media instead meekly ask “What’s going on?”. Heaven forfend that Son of Communitht should get the same sort of inquisitorial treatment and evident contempt meted out to Farage by that snake O’Brien.

    • dalai guevara

      Thirteen years of Labour government have *built* Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and so on and made them the places they are today – there was nothing there before then, Colonel, nothing. Okay, it was built on credit, agreed, but what are the current incumbents building now? They are saving the centre only, and look how they are saving it. UKIP command no authority in the centre. They have been thoroughly outsmarted, twice.

      • Alexsandr

        when i see the debts my children and grandchildren will have to pay back I need to weep. what a legacy.

        • dalai guevara

          Our congratulations go to Gidiot for doubling the debt in one term. Send him to the Lords.

          • Andy

            Actually the credit for doubling the debt should go to Gordon the Moron Brown. He set the trajectory and it is proving difficult to reverse. The mess Brown made, aided and abetted by Balls and stupid Miliband will take at the very least more than a generation to sort out, if they are ever sorted out that is.

            • Muttley

              They’ll never sort it out. An election in this country can only be won by an auction of benefits and giveaways because the Labour government induced such dependency on the state for just about everything.

              • telemachus

                Beats dependency on the City
                Which just feeds the rich
                At least there are fair shares

              • Andy

                Quite right. And you see the sort of attitude that needs confronting in the reply from the National Socialist Telemachus. ‘At least there are fair shares’ the ignorant moron says. Fair shares of an enormous debt. Fair shares of a country swamped by uncontrolled immigration, engineered by scum like him to pack the vote.

              • dalai guevara

                Child care benefit ‘dependent’ Norwegians and Germans laugh in your face.

      • Colonel Mustard

        “Thirteen years of Labour government have *built* Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and so on and made them the places they are today – there was nothing there before then, Colonel, nothing.’

        Says the revisionist mythology of the Labour party which currently owns the historical narrative of Britain via its fellow travellers infesting Academia.

        Take Manchester. Study objectively, if you can, the history of the GMCC, long before 1997, and refrain from deploying asinine rhetoric suggesting that New Labour invented the modern city. While you are at it contemplate the still deprived areas which somehow managed to escape the New Labour largesse and miracle working.

        “In spite of considerable success in rebuilding its economy over the past 25 years, the city-region retains significant pockets of multiple deprivations closely connected with the uneven spatial development of the conurbation. It can be broadly split between a more prosperous southern part transformed by the recent history of sustained economic growth and a northern part that has continued a longer-term trajectory of deprivation (Harding et al., 2010). As a consequence, some of the ‘most deprived wards in the United Kingdom’ are situated ‘only ten minutes from the glamorous café culture of Manchester’s consumer city centre’”

        Note especially that 25 years. Nothing before 1997? I suggest that you blow it out of something other than your backside.

        • telemachus

          But why Mustard why
          Could it be that the London centric Tory elite for decades have deprived the North of resources
          Labour to their credit induced the move of major institutions to Manchester
          Media City will be a magnet for more
          But we need Labour back in 2015 to continue the good work

          • Smithersjones2013

            You mean Tory elitists like Ken Livingstone?

            • telemachus

              Ken looked after the poor of the estates in the boroughs
              Which is more than you can say for Boris

              • chudsmania

                Why are they poor then ? Nothing to do with refusal to integrate with modern society is it , like Tower Hamlets for example ?

              • Smithersjones2013

                Yes Labour do like their rotten ghettoised boroughs. So much so they have kept them almost exactly the same for 50 years.

                Vote Labour Stay poor…….

                • telemachus

                  You mean Labour advocate the rights of the underprivileged boroughs to share the country’s wealth

              • mrs1234

                What rubbish!

        • dalai guevara

          I do not need to study it Colonel, I live it.
          I live that change and I know exactly when and where and why what happened – that is why I juxtapose your post, for no other reason – not because I make a Labour point, I make my point.

          Manchester is possibly the most brilliant examplar of a ‘one party state’, more than any other place in Britain. UKIP have missed that point indeed. They just fail to word it properly and therefore my verdict is that they have failed, twice.

          • Colonel Mustard

            “…that is why I juxtapose your post”

            Funny, that. telemachus likes to do the same thing. Juxtaposing – or maybe just posing.

            • dalai guevara

              Indeed, I come across this chap to – he thinks the entire planet is a Labour conspiracy and he gets away with it, here.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …yes, but what about all the rest of your sockpuppet jury, what’s their verdict, lad?

            • dalai guevara

              d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh dad d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh

              no, wait

              d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh dad d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh d’oh

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …I think you missed a few, lad.

                • dalai guevara

                  You like brightly coloured avatars? Keep it to yourself, d’oh. We know you do.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …can any other of you socialist nutters translate this nutter’s gibberish?

                • you_kid

                  Surprise!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …you’ve added another sockpuppet to the stable?

      • mrs1234

        Do you think Manchester is greatly improved? It has certainly expanded enormously and is incredibly crowded. I guess if you are talking just about the city centre it all looks very impressive. But Market St? I think it is a total mess. Also, just about every suburb from Withington to the large area of Salford that isn’t just by the Lowery Centre has been in a state of decay for years. Crumbling, pot-holed roads and pavements etc…. Those are Labour councils not Tory….

        • dalai guevara

          Manchester has hugely improved – what has not changed is that a 20 minutes drive will take to into either hills or Cheshire. It is the fastest growing large conurbation in britain and after 13+4 years there is still so much potential. I counted 75+ towers (above 23 storeys) in the planning phase in 2009. The place is booming. After the BBC, Airport City will be the next big change for that region and its centre. Perhaps one day we will be sufficient upstream supply to downstream demand a proper ballet again 😉

          • mrs1234

            Like I said you are talking about central Manchester – if you think towers constitute improvement that’s great – they certainly look impressive I’ll grant you that. But to me Market St is completely depressing, and yes, like so much of England, it is definitely growing as more as more and more people are packed in like sardines. Like I said though so many of the areas immediately outside the centre are in a state of terminal decline and are not the places they used to be. These are the areas where most people live and the councillors and town planners should e ashamed of themselves for those areas are a disgrace.

        • Erictheowl

          My family is from Manchester originally, and that’s just what most of it is, now – somewhere you come from. You wouldn’t go to it.

          • telemachus

            Media City is changing all that

            • Erictheowl

              There you go again, Tele. Knew I could depend on you for a little giggle. Like I said before, don’t change, no matter what – we need humour in these difficult and trying times.

            • Hexhamgeezer

              Obv you’ve not never been round there. Mind you the Beeboids luv the taxi geezers what with their diverse religiosity

              • telemachus

                I do go
                Twice each week
                And am impressed at the vibrancy

          • Smithersjones2013

            Ah but haven’t the ‘missonaries’ from the BBC arrived in Manchester to ‘civilize and convert’ Mancunians into urban liberal elitists who just adore the authenticity of such places…

            • Erictheowl

              Ah, yes, that’ll make all the difference then. Can’t wait.

              • telemachus

                Northerners will not change
                We will Socialise the whole UK

    • telemachus

      “same sort of inquisitorial treatment and evident contempt meted out to Farage by that snake O’Brien.”

      *

      You mean

      James O’Brien’s masterful take-down of phoney Nigel Farage’s man-of-the-people act

      O’Brien was not won over by Farage’s goofy “let’s call a spade a spade” chutzpah. There was nothing about the Ukip leader’s cartoonish features or Mr Toad attire that he found remotely adorable. O’Brien’s research was meticulous, and his demeanour that of a man on the edge of fury as he went through the party’s catalogue of gaffes and outbursts, and Farage’s associations with far-right groups in Europe.

      • chudsmania

        This is the Spectator not the Daily Mash. It must be confusing for you.

    • Kennybhoy

      Very well said.

      • telemachus

        The most significant phrase in one of Mustards customary diatribes is “blatantly dishonest and breathtakingly arrogant”

        *

        ‘This is a welcome admission of his whole approach to not only any comment on reasonable politicians but also his twisting and haughty approach to any poster who disagrees with his peculiar anarchist approach to English politics and his little englandism

        *
        Contrast this with Miliband’s masterly and conciliatory approach
        *
        Mr Miliband described many Ukip voters as “hardworking people” who “love our country”.

        But he said that Ukip’s view of Europe and immigration “is not the answer for our country”.

        “This will never be Labour’s mission or policy under my leadership’

        • saffrin

          If the Labour Party can offer no hope to its core vote, then the exodus to Ukip will surely multiply.
          Miliband has trapped himself on the wrong side.
          Be assured, Labour are finished. They learn nothing!

          • telemachus

            Labour have policies across the spectrum
            They are not racist
            They will not only survive but re-enter Government May 8

            • saffrin

              May 8th 2055 maybe.

              • telemachus

                Forget UKIP
                The 41 Scottish MPs will deliver Westminster
                Ed Miliband has insisted that Labour will defeat the Tories at the next general election in a bid to stem a flow of Labour voters planning to vote for Scottish independence to avoid further Conservative rule.

                The Labour leader said the UK “was just one Christmas away from having a Labour government which can take up the cudgels of social justice on behalf of the people of Scotland and of the UK”.

                • saffrin

                  You can’t be taking it for granted Labour will get 41 Scottish MP’s.
                  For a start, Scotland might not even be British by then.

                • telemachus

                  Twill

              • Bluesman_1

                And they can vote for the sons, daughters and grandchildren of the present gang of aerosols.

                Labour – because hereditary politics is best:

                Benn
                Straw
                Blair (John 11:35)
                Prescott
                Kinnock
                Sawford
                Gould
                At least we are spared Mandelson

                • telemachus

                  Mandelson?
                  Is Tatchell not his son

                • saffrin

                  I wouldn’t be surprised, he is certainly weird enough.

            • Colonel Mustard

              “They are not racist”

              Tell the English that. UK governments, both Labour and Tory, are in breach of the articles of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples on several counts. Those offences have been compounded by the UK government evading a definition of indigenous people to prevent any redress through the UN. When English people object to this re-invention of their country they are subject to the offensive, racist abuse of “little englander”, out of context to its original meaning and with no equivalent pejorative being used in the case of more overtly nationalist Scots, Welsh or Irish movements.

              Delve into the antecedents of the most prolific and vociferous Anglophobe racists currently operating within the public narrative in the UK and you soon find that none of them are actually English and many of them have historical axes to grind. They presume to speak for us but they are not us. The English ‘nationalist’ position is not being ‘against’ anyone but only wishes for the same right as all other nations to be able to self-identify as a sovereign people and to self-determine without being called ‘racist’.

              • telemachus

                I make no distinction between the English, Welsh, Scottish, Cornish or Irish
                We share a common heritage of marauders, language and conquest

                • Colonel Mustard

                  And by that disgusting comment you condemn yourself.

                  PS It’s not all about telemachus or the Labour party.

                • David Lindsay.

                  Not the former
                  But very definitely the latter

        • Inverted Meniscus

          The Colonel provided a persuasive and convincing argument you furnish inarticulate lies and propaganda. Your a socialist and should be ignored.

    • Kitty MLB

      Very well said Colonel. Ed Milipede might be amusing in lots of ways.
      But we must always remember the that lurks beneath and the real socialism
      that follows Milipede around like a miasmic fog. They must not be allowed
      near power again. And Conservatives have a duty to protect the electorate.

    • Mynydd

      Since the time Mr Miliband stood up and said he would freeze energy prices and sort out the broken energy market, what as happened? SSE for one has put a freeze on its prices, of course Mr Cameron/Osborne said this would not happen. The government is investigating the operation of energy market, having first said it was not broken. On a personal note, my monthly energy direct debt has gone down from £120 to £96 a nice saving for an OAP. If Mr Miliband can achieve this from the opposition benches, just think what he would do in government.

  • realfish

    You can have all of the intellectual self confidence in the world if you tell yourself a lie often enough.

    • global city

      The biggest problem for us is that the MSM are all part of the same group think lass. They cannot ask pertinent questions on ‘immigration’, the EU, etc, when they all believe that these things are all inherently good.

      They are trapped in a world constructed by culturally limited narrative, just as the lefties planned.

    • telemachus

      A 35% strategy will do

      • Kennybhoy

        Alas this utter cunnus is maybe correct here….

    • Kennybhoy

      “Perhaps this is all part of Miliband’s 35% strategy.”

      No “perhaps” about it. And the terrible thing is, much as I hate to have to keep saying it, that it might just work if the conservative vote is split in key marginals…

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …there is no conservative “split”, lad. You vote UKIP or you vote socialist Camerluvvie.

        • Kennybhoy

          You are obviously no thick so I can only conclude that you are a Labour mole…

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …that’s what most of you socialist LibLabConsters believe, that your warped world is the true world.

            Drink up, lad.

            • Kennybhoy

              Gibberish…

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …sober up, lad.

                • Kennybhoy

                  You really do have a limited repertoire auld yin…

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …you’ll soon be out though.

  • anyfool

    Having watched Clegg commit electoral suicide on Europe and immigration, he decides to follow the same path.
    Hopefully your reporting is correct in that he is saying no change, we might see the end of him and his deceitful party.

    • telemachus

      The LibDems always come back
      Flash in the pan Faragism will be the one that dies

      • Erictheowl

        Hopefully, they will return to the well-deserved obscurity they “enjoyed” for several decades. Perhaps you would like to join them?

        • telemachus

          Our hour is coming

          • Colonel Mustard

            You bet.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …yes, you fascist have a song about your hour, as I recall: “Tomorrow Belongs to Me”.

            • Kennybhoy

              Actually that was written specifically for the musical. Just sayin…

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …but it’s suitable for all you socialists, wouldn’t you agree?

          • Erictheowl

            5 minutes should see you sorted, Sweetie Pie. Then you can go back to your proper calling – keeping me amused.

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