Coffee House

Labour’s mixed up views on race and diversity are driving voters away

31 May 2014

1:28 PM

31 May 2014

1:28 PM

In the past few weeks, Sadiq Khan has made a couple of interventions that show how hopelessly confused the Labour Party is on issues of race and diversity – and Ukip looms large in the background.

First up, a couple of weeks ago, Khan made a Labour’s pitch ethnic minority votes in a speech to Operation Black Vote. He said:

‘The fact is that if you are black or Asian in Britain today: you are significantly more likely to be unemployed. You will earn less and you will live a shorter life than your white neighbours.’

Invoking Policy Exchange’s recent ‘Portrait of Modern Britain’ report, he added:

Entire racial groups are significantly poorer, have lower educational achievements and worse life chances than their [white] neighbours’.

Leaving aside the strange claim that whole races are much worse off than any white people they may live next to, this sort of language seems somewhat…divisive. Khan went on to point out how people of Bangladeshi or Pakistani descent are twice as likely to be on the Minimum Wage as – again that phrase – ‘their white neighbours’, adding that these stats show ‘an injustice that causes untold economic and social damage to our country’ and outlining a number of measures of positive discrimination to follow under a Labour government.

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You can imagine the howls of protest if these categories were reversed, and white people were highlighted as being much worse off than neighbours of another racial group. Beyond that, the idea of favouring white-skinned over dark-skinned people would be to jump straight into BNP territory.

But the idea that great injustice is being committed, based on a dubious reading of numbers wrenched from all context (like language skills), means that racial favouritism in areas like the civil service, judiciary and business, is precisely what Labour plans to implement.

After the European elections we saw a very different intervention from Khan: an open letter sent to the Express addressed at UKIP supporters.

In this, he said:

In the past, we were too quick to dismiss concerns about immigration, or even worse – accused people of prejudice… We all remember Gillian Duffy. We were wrong. We are sorry.’

Khan then ran through Labour’s list of pretty sensible but limited interventions, on the need for immigrants to learn English, not send child benefit out of the country, and for employers to actually pay the minimum wage and train local workers if they hire from outside.

These are all welcome, but the point remains that Labour does play racial politics, and does it at a time when such favouritism looks increasingly anachronistic.

Ed Miliband and his colleagues speak in hushed tones about how they understand the concerns of UKIP voters, but meanwhile Labour is promoting a ‘fightback’ campaign: ‘UKIP doesn’t speak for me. I’m fighting back’. Miliband seeks to promote Labour as a ‘One Nation’ party, but then Tessa Jowell, one of its most liked and respected figures, boasts after the local elections that ‘these results show London to be an open, tolerant and diverse city’ – in contrast to the rest of the country.

These mixed up messages reflect how Labour hasn’t come to terms with where its identity politics naturally leads. When you show preference to some groups, you shouldn’t be surprised when the others turn away.

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Show comments
  • Brazen Pillar

    Taqqiya I think they call it.

  • Hippograd

    Labour aren’t mixed up at all. They hate Britain as it traditionally was and want to destroy it. That’s why they secretly opened the borders to mass immigration. Now they’re trying to pretend they weren’t acting with malice aforethought. Their real intentions remain precisely the same as they were under Blair and Mandelson.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Yes, one of the clues is the way they scorn and ridicule people for wanting to “return” to a “mythical” past. They changed Britain by nasty subterfuge and it is their own myth of the past they now peddle. They wish anyone who can actually remember it dead.

  • Dogsnob

    Labour’s views on race and diversity are anything but mixed up. Labour are fully committed to the continuing drive to replace indigenous Britons with ‘otherness’.
    “We were wrong [to let this come out into the open]. We are sorry [that we were caught out]”
    All the talk is of their ‘working harder to put over their values’ but what they will actually do now is redouble their efforts to hoodwink the public with the same stuff as before.

  • Leo McKinstry

    We have constantly told by the supporters of mass immigration that this colossal influx of new arrivals – running at over 500,000-a-year for the last decade, the majority of them from outside the EU- is absolutely vital for our economic prosperity. According to the fashionable metropolitan narrative, that is because most members of the modern British working-class are too lazy, too unskilled, too addicted to welfare, too ill-educated and too feckless to be employable. So we have to rely on the wonderful, hard-working, well-schooled, growth-boosting migrants. “They do the jobs that we won’t,” goes the mantra of the diversity enthusiasts. Yet now Sadiq Khan, in his desperate bid to wallow in racial victimhood, has revealed the truth. As he put it, blacks and Asians are “significantly more likely to be unemployed” and have “lower educational achievements” than their white neighbours. Inadvertently, he has demolished one of the main planks of the pro-immigration case.

  • cromwell

    Of Course its all about mass immigration, its all about in indigenous Britons been ethnically replaced and when they object they are called racist.

  • cromwell

    Primitive religious views hold adherents back

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      You mean like “intelligent” design, creationism, drinking cheap red wine…?

  • jesseventura2

    Can it be that islam is holding back Pakistani and Bagladeshis who along with blacks do worse at school than other immigrants to the west like Chinese,Indian,Japanese?
    Heads filled with mumbo jumbo cannot be doing muslims any favours.

  • Q46

    And a high proportion of Black and Asians are recently arrived from poor, backward, uneducated societies, many of them are women who are not allowed to work and others are elderly too old to work.

    Comparing Britain with Pakistan or Jamaica is not a sensible comparison.

  • LucieCabrol

    I wonder what Sadiq wants to be when he grows up|?

  • Mynydd

    The anti-Labour commentators are now scrapping the bottom of the barrel to find negative Labour comments.

    • Wessex Man

      Would that be the same Anti-UKip commentators, no can’t because you love to scrape the bottom of the barrel while telling such silly lies about Ukip.

      If you can’t stand the heat get out of the Kitchen.

    • Inverted Meniscus

      Oh I do enjoy listening to the hypocrisy of the Fascist Labour Party who,without a shred of evidence, call UKIP and all of its members racist. Labour is a racist party old boy, it hates white people.

  • bricko

    Enoch Powell is looking better all the time…..the silly idea that all cultures are equal has always been ludicrous from the get go.

  • Brigantian

    The fact that Labour are still talking about RACE shows how out of touch they are. The fact is that we now have a situation where British born young men and women from a diverse range of backgrounds: white, black, brown, yellow, hindu, muslim, christian, jew, sikh, buddhist, etc are failing to even receive job interviews and EU nationals, often without appropriate language skills or qualifications are being appointed in their place, sometimes without having to attend an interview. The reason is not hard to fathom: the EU nationals are coming from countries with youth unemployment rates in excess of 50% and will work in some cases for nothing. Hardly surprising that the CBI loves the EU so much. It’s time that Ed Miliband forgot his obsession with race and remembered what the Labour Party is supposed to be about: CLASS.

  • Liz

    It’s long been recognised by Labour that certain ethnic groups are disadvantaged in society and that the reasons for this include things like language skills. I don’t see the contradiction between recognising a problem exists, understanding it’s causes and working towards solutions. Certainly a better approach that recognising a problem exists, understanding only one half of the causes and then being antagonistic about it.

    It’s not okay for some groups to be poorer than and die younger than others. Is it?

    • Hexhamgeezer

      Chrst you’re a bleedin’ comic turn, make no mistake.

      ‘things like language skills’? – that is not our responsibilty. You want to live here and receive unearned benefits? At least learn the language of your benefactors.

      ‘understanding only one half of the causes’? Oh that you would recognise a bleedin’ quarter of them.

    • vieuxceps2

      Ask yourself why “some groups” do worse than others in the same circumstances.Why Sikhs and Chinese thrive and Pakistanis don’t.Perhaps they will always be poore and die younger than their peers despite all help. And why “help” anyway? Help from where? From you maybe?

  • Chingford Man

    I spent today on Active Service for The People’s Army in Newark. A group of us, mostly inexperienced, were sent to a Labour ward on the town’s outskirts. We were very pleased with our reception. Obviously there was the odd socialist, but overwhelmingly we got a great response from the people we met and we were thoroughly energised by the day. I really recommend knocking on doors and talking to folk.

    2 stories:

    One lovely old lady told us how she had been in a nurse in WW2 and now felt so devastated at the way Britain had been let down by her politicians. I really wish I knew shorthand because what she said was so eloquent – and 100pc better than the drivel so often served up on Coffee House. She has already voted for UKIP by post.

    Another UKIP supporter showed us a leaflet Labour people from “UnionsTogether” had sent out: Farage on one side, everything in purple and yellow, and a tissue of lies about UKIP on the back. Truly disgusting, but at least you can sense the fear.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes, and you can bet the Camerluvvies are paying for that Lab campaign. LibLabCon are allies, as always.

  • Bonkim

    No brainer – Bangaldeshi and Pakistanis in Britain come mainly from the illiterate and backward classes, low language skills, cling to their medieval customs and work within their close circle of exploitative businesses. their women folk are kept under cover, have to endure arranged or forced marriages and have difficulty absorbing main-stream Britain. They are poor role models for second generation – little wonder they earn less and are disadvantaged in many other ways.

    Unless people are willing and able to adapt and change they will be left behind. Mr Sajid Khan and Labour have to give the message straight and establish policies that force minorities to discard their backward ways and join main-stream.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      If you want a Muslim third worlder for a neighbour, vote Labour.

      • Bonkim

        Rubbish – what are you doing worrying about Muslim third-worlder in Japan?

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          Suck it up Britisher pals.

      • Shazza

        If you want an islamic state in Britain, vote Labour.

      • Mangochutney

        No that’s the Turks

  • nana

    they have ignored their ‘white vote’.2 pollsters said that UKIP Voters are ill educated.and then another labour mp comes up with again Mrs duffy and bigots.
    has tessa jowell ever been on a walkabout in a ‘northern’ town.on LBC today umunna compared them to The Tea Party.with miliband saying he does things american.are they actually The British Labour Party? they are all running around like headless chickens.or dogs running after their tails.

  • Greenslime

    Penny for your vote sir? Oh, you are a member of a minority. I think that we could probably stretch that to several pennies and some other, er, incentives.

  • global city

    This should be posted on the notice board of every Labour club oop nowerth. It is true that Labour turned away from the working lass decades ago and now revile them as backward idiots and traitors to the cause.

  • Ben Smith

    It looks like the same topic discussions are going it Silicon Valley. See for instance: “Silicon Valley At The Cusp of a New Age of McCarthyism”
    http://silicon-valley-news.com/2014/05/31/silicon-valley-at-the-cusp-of-a-new-age-of-mccarthyism/

  • Lucy Sky Diamonds

    Their 13 year legacy is driving voters away. And guess what now? Tony Blair is going to make a comeback in an attempt to fight Euroscepticism.

    UKIP could not ask for a greater gift!

  • Fergus Pickering

    Yes I am delighted with Labour policy, just what we UKIPpers wanted. Keep up the good work, chaps.

    • Kitty MLB

      You are now called a Kipper, not UKIPper. Ghastly, colour
      is purple. Cats like fish. Do hope your two are not sitting
      at the dining room table with napkin around the neck and
      Cutlery within paws. Expecting a hearty meal.

      • Fergus Pickering

        Kippers eh? Not sure I want to be a kipper.

        • Kitty MLB

          You’d want to be a lobster even less, thrown live into boiling
          water ! Not sure being a kipper would suit you actually. Rather like a breath of fresh air with a fishy whiff around the
          place- No ! That would be a contradiction in terms, rather like
          a vegetarian man eating tiger.
          Fergus, being somewhat whiffy and living in fear of being
          eaten by cats and humans, that will just not do old fellow,
          it will just not do.

  • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

    We are sick to death of immigration. What don’t they understand?

    • Fergus Pickering

      They understand it. They just don’t like it.And they won’t have it.. So there.

      • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

        We are a soft-touch. 900,000 of the 1,600,000 jobs advertised in the EU last month were BRITISH.

        An over-supply of immigration not only prevents our people from finding work but it also keeps wages low. 50 years ago if you were advertising a job at £5 an hour and got no interest you would put the salary up to £6 an hour to attract interest. But these days the minimum wage has become the maximum wage among our labour-force.

        The standard of living would rocket without mass immigration. Our poorest would come off benefits and get a well paid job, then start PAYING into the system they once took from, WHAT A SYSTEM! Then with all of this extra tax and less people claiming benefits taxes could come down! WOW, that would create so much more investment! WHAT A COUNTRY!

        I call it debasing the labour market. Labour is a commodity, like any other. When you artificially inflate the supply against a static demand, such as by not lifting a finger to stop a massive influx of immigration, or rewriting immigration laws to provide such an influx, you lower the cost of labour. Businesses and Politicians collude to keep this system going, enriching both of them with campaign donations for labour savings, while it’s impoverishing the people they’re supposed to represent by making it difficult to find work, and nearly impossible to find work that will provide a good standard of living.

        A government that doesn’t act in the best interests of its citizens is one that has outlived its usefulness. A government that puts the interests of cronies and foreign nationals above its own citizens is an abomination that ought to be abolished.

        • Fergus Pickering

          You speak truth, O wise one.

        • Bonkim

          50 years back the average wage was less than £10 a week for the average working man, 5 bob an hour was good money.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Make that 60 years ago.

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            It was a hypothetical example, 50 years ago there wasn’t an over-suppy of immigration. That was my point, replace pounds with shekels.

            • Bonkim

              yes detail point taken. Regrettably 50 years back there was no EU or the pace of economic activity than improved the economic situation and allowed real wages to rise. Flow of money capital and human capital are both part of the economic flow and flow is along path of least resistance.

              You gain something, you lose something. Most jobs in Britain today are related to services of one sort or the other and yes people who are prepared to travel from another country are more competitive, adapted and also more skilled – otherwise businesses won’t employ them. Protectionism is no more, and like it or not we are in the EU and will have to accept the rules. If/when we get out it may be different.

              Supply will even out if demand goes down. Most jobs taken by immigrant workers are low skilled and people in Britain are not clamouring to get them.

              • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

                Ha, how sweet, you’ve had a go at replying.

                We don’t “gain” anything, when you lose more than you gain you lose. How are people prepared to travel “more competitive”?! much is unskilled labour desperate for work fleeing a bankrupt EU Like you say “Most jobs taken by immigrant workers are low skilled” . Businesses employ them because they’re CHEAP! I don’t like it and we will be out of the EU soon.

                Then we need to create incentives for people to take these jobs.

                • Bonkim

                  Yes the other option is to go inside your castle and shut the hatch. Britain is 75% dependent on the outside world and has to earn its keep. All through history Britain looked outward – old habits die hard and doubt if Britain will survive shutting itself in.

              • Dogsnob

                And the children of the immigrant workers? Will they ‘flow’ into the low-paid jobs or will they choose to opt out and go on the pancrack?

                • Bonkim

                  People have choices and what jobs they go to depends on their ability – What is pancrack? Your moties appear to be suspicious.

                • Dogsnob

                  What do you suspect I might be up to?

    • Inverted Meniscus

      They do understand they just don’t care. They figure that the immigrants will vote Labour and that is all they care about.

    • global city

      the fact that you are sick of immigration just says to them that you need even more…and more, and ever more.

  • RavenRandom

    Labour the party for recent immigrants, welfare claimants, and the public sector. If you are not one of those groups then voting for Labour is against your best interests. That especially includes you working class folk (double trouble if you’re white), Labour takes your votes for granted.

  • Grey Wolf

    One Nation Labour – is there a more unfunny joke?

    • Inverted Meniscus

      No.

  • Grey Wolf

    Sadiq Khan is a deluded man but then his type infest Labour, whether ‘New’ or ‘One Nation’. The fact is that Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are lagging behind not just Whites but also behind Indians and groups from Far East. What does Khan have to say to that?

  • Blindsideflanker

    It should always be remembered that Sadiq Khan, who has professed his pride of his Pakistani heritage, made the pejorative comment about English people being little Englanders. If the reverse had happened and an Englishman had expressed any view about Pakistanis, the embers of his public burning would already be going cold.

    And this man Ed Miliband thinks would be a good Minister of Justice over English people.

    • Shazza

      Sadiq Khan is rumoured to want to run for Mayor after Boris departs. Gaze upon Minaret Hamlets and see what the future holds for Greater Londonistan.

      • mrs1234

        God help London if that happens!

    • Colonel Mustard

      With Emily Thornberry as AG, aided and abetted by unelected ex-DPP Keir Starmer.

  • Blindsideflanker

    As I think it was established a few days ago when race was previously debated, the left’s race policy, which is the default British states race policy, was never meant to make any sense. It never has added up in any logical way. It is a weapon indiscriminately used by the left to do damage to those opposed to its policies, and used to shut and censor any counter argument.

  • Denis_Cooper

    The claim made by Tessa Jowell, as relayed by Charles Moore in your link:

    “London, in her implication, is an open, tolerant and diverse city because so few of its voters went for Ukip in Thursday’s local elections, whereas so many did so in the rest of England.”

    was always a stupid claim on at least two counts, of which the first seemed to be missed by journalists even though it is basic and beyond contention:

    People cannot express their support for UKIP at all if there is no UKIP candidate for whom they can vote, and if there is a single UKIP candidate in a three seat ward they are limited to giving that UKIP candidate one of their three votes.

    This is why the reported “single digit” levels of support for UKIP in the local elections in London did not reflect the real level of support which emerged in
    the EU Parliament elections when everyone could vote UKIP if they wished.

    So for example in the borough of Merton UKIP only put up 14 candidates when a full slate would have been 60, and the council duly reported that UKIP had only got 4% of the total votes cast:

    http://democracy.merton.gov.uk/mgElectionResults.aspx?ID=2

    but later when it published the results for EU Parliament election:

    http://democracy.merton.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?ID=44&RPID=0

    it emerged that UKIP’s share of the votes was 16%.

  • Agrippina

    You only have to look at Tower Hamlets and the labour creation Rahman a bangladeshi, to see that they are finished, they don’t represent anyone anymore.

    It took several days to come up with the results of the elections, subject to an inquiry now. Labour were happy to have the muslims voters when it benefitted them, even though they knew there were dubious voting practices.

    But now that the muslims are outnumbering the labour lot, they do things for themselves & their bretheren (most funding in TH has gone to muslim groups, banglas and somalis).

    Labour are finished, working class Brits were dispensed with for the asian voters. They are being replaced by the east europeans who will do just as rahman does.

    UKIP for reform.

  • Andy

    Lets set up a ‘White Police Officers Association’ with exactly the same membership criteria as the ‘black’ equivalent and see how long it takes Khan and that hag Harman to start spitting feathers. Lets also have white equivalents of all the other racist organisations that abound.

    • Shazza

      As Whites are rapidly becoming a minority in Londonistan, they should be able to as a ‘minority’ group. The emerging majority cannot object then, can they?

      • Andy

        One would assume not, but they will on the grounds that Whites are naturally racist and other ‘minority’ groups are not.

        • Shazza

          True.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          Agreed. How long will it be before the fascists of the National Socialist Labour Party enshrine that in law?

  • Richard Young

    Will never forget Gorgon [sic] Brown coming up with the wheeze of ‘affordable housing for KEY workers.The most divisive apartheid thinking ever.How long before his acolytes blow the dust off that one?

  • Kitty MLB

    So Mr Khan. Immigrants are poor in this country. Explain why did Labour promise
    them a land of milk and honey. Who on earth would not want to leave some god
    forsaken country when promised that.
    I know someone who recently visited Romania. And plastered on the walls are posters
    of London. Red buses, hardly any cars, blue skies, men in bowler hats.
    I should imagine somewhere between the 50s / 70s clearly not now.

    • global city

      this image of a poor and oppressed group of immigrants does not tally with the story we have had shoved down our throats for the last few years about how every last migrant is a dynamic worker who adds loads to the exchequer and sets up loads of business.

      You an’t have it both ways.

  • realfish
  • Smithersjones2013

    Thats not mixed up . That it’s real intent (pro-immigration, pro-multiculturalism) and contemptuous lies to a mainly white working class it now despises (we got immigration wrong). They are not sorry they are intent on carrying out their demented deranged plans for this country come what may..

    That is the Labour party; dishonest as the day is long and night is dark

    • MikeF

      Agreed – but the trick they have to pull is to hang on to enough of their old core vote especially in areas like the North West to give them electoral success where they have not yet imported enough new voters. An awful lot depends on the answer to the question of whether they can – little less, in fact, than whether this country will be worth living in a decade or two hence.

  • TRAV1S

    Ed can hang out with his Tower Hamlets buddies, and spit on traditional Labour voters like Mrs Duffy.

    • Cooper1992

      Ed would no doubt change the name to Minaret Hamlets if it meant getting himself into Number 10.

  • tres66

    I’m sure Sadiq Khan doesn’t see any inconsistency in this (racist) attitude of his towards whites. It could get very unpleasant if he were pushed on this. There are simply some questions that are so politically incorrect that it’s a thought crime in Labour circles to even think them. Certainly it’s risky to point out that Labour’s old core vote (the white working class) has noticed that positive discrimination for Asian people is negative discrimination for them. And as for sponsoring more immigration through family connections, the least said the better…………and while it might be acceptable to agree the Scots have the right to take back their country, it isn’t acceptable for the English to do the same.

    • fundamentallyflawed

      Sadiq Kahn is correct when he states that many immigrants are poor and remain poor. But they chose to continue to do enter this country because being poor in this country is far better than being poor in their native countries. Sadiq Kahn is confusing relative poverty for relative poverty. When you import immigrants from 3rd world countries without skills or finances then why would you expect them to suddenly succeed? Unless of course you are a labour MP and then it is the white mans fault.

      • Agrippina

        The figs for children doing badly at school nearly always have somalis and banglas at the bottom of the tables. They do not value education have no intention of learning the lang and integrating.

        dave said, no speak Eng, back you go, as you will not be able to work and support yourself.

        • fundamentallyflawed

          Cameron has no intention of deporting these immigrants. You can see the moralising labour headlines now “Cameron deports monsoon victims”. Our government couldn’t even bring itself to deport or prosecute the (now convicted) terrorist Abu Hamza

      • Smithersjones2013

        Although strangely never the white Labour MP who more often than not represents them decade after decade

  • http://batman-news.com The Commentator

    The curious thing is this: despite Britain being a nasty unequal and unfair society dominated by white racists (these are the people who don’t support Labour in case you were wondering), thousands of people every year are prepared to risk their lives trying to illegally enter this ghastly unfair and racist country. I wonder why that is…?

    • IainRMuir

      And how are other immigrants faring – the ones we rarely hear about – Sikhs, Chinese, etc?

      Wicked Whitey is very selective in his racism as some groups seem to encounter far fewer problems.

      And BTW, average male life expectancy in parts of Glasgow is 54. Is Mr Khan concerned about this? Is he even aware of it?

      • Wessex Man

        We now have the classic that could only happen here of Blunkett asking the police in Sheffield to intervene as racial problems and street fighting erupt in Sheffield between third and fouth generation British Black and Asians against Slovakian Roma, who now outnumber them in some places, magic!

        Meanwhile poor old deluded Gillian Duffy has been called a racial bigot again by another Labour MP! Perhaps that’s their plan make war on white grannies!

        • roger

          It was when I heard Brown in the car that I realised what a two faced sh*t he was.I expect most politicians are equally as bad.

          • David B

            I’m suprised it took you to 2010, it should have been obvious from the way he ran the treasury and tax policy attacking people he didn’t like – policies his apprentices have learned and want to bring back.

            The Labour Party love the politics of the oppressed. They believe it is their natural constituency and keeping stories like this going will keep the votes rolling in

        • evad666

          Press reports claim Mrs Duffy voted Labour with her postal vote. The Labour call her bigoted again.

        • evad666

          Labour makes war on all the whites.

      • Cyril Sneer

        Yes the presence of successful minorities is always a matter for the left to avoid at all costs.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      Seriously embarrassing when Brits, often middle age, middle class are flying the UK coop in droves, while at the same time third worlders are scrambling to get in, risking life and limb in the process. Sad when UK is your best, indeed only option.
      Jack, Japan Alps

      • vieuxceps2

        When do you leave Jack? Soon, please.

        • Blank Reg

          He signed his comment “Japan Alps”. Are you stupid?

          • vieuxceps2

            Do you suppose there are many Alps in Japan? You sign yourself Blank Reg, how stupid is that?

            • Jackthesmilingblack

              “When are you leaving?” is a typical response from risk averse losers when you make even the slightest negative comment about UK. I flew the UK coop for Japan in 1970, when I took the Trans-siberian “Express” across Europe and Russia, finally arriving in Yokohama. The best decision I ever took. In fact there are the Northern, Central and Southern Japan Alps. So on a clear day I get a good view of the active volcano which seems rather more …..
              Jack, Japan Alps

              • vieuxceps2

                Thank you for your reply.If you have been living in Japan for the last 44 years, I suggest that you have now become that most insufferable of creatures, the Expat.I have met you in many lands and you all share the strange notion that you’re all wonderful and wise and much, much better than those fools (losers) still living at “home”. After this length of time Jacky-boy,maybe you shoul keep your comments to your new homeland for you can scarcely know much of England now, can you?

                • Jackthesmilingblack

                  Face it, vieu, you`re a sorry-assed, risk-averse loser washed up on the UK beach with the rest of the trash. Namely, the flotsam and jetsam of the stream of life. Come back when you`ve got something to contribute to the debate.
                  Jack, Japan Alps

                • vieuxceps2

                  Wow,Jack-san,what a stunningly original comment. Don’t worry your pretty top-knot, i’ll be back all right, and you can read and study my thoughts from home and perhaps learn.
                  Perhaps.

                • Jackthesmilingblack

                  So you`re also saying that I`m Japanese. But when cornered will take refuge in, “It was a wind up, can`t you take a joke?”
                  That`s a cowardly bully for you from a nation of bullies.
                  Jack, the Japan Alps Brit

                • vieuxceps2

                  Well jack-san.living as you say in Japan, you must be familiar with a “nation of bullies”.If not, ask the Chinese, ask the Koreans, ask the Burmese,they’ll know.
                  I grow weary of your insane self-delusion, so will write no more to you. Sayonara jack-san.

                • George Smiley

                  Tell us about your childhood in England, or can you?!

                • Jackthesmilingblack

                  No personal information for you to twist and distort, you sick, disturbed Rochdale loser. I don`t have to provide details, far less prove anything to a pervert like you.
                  I demand an apology from you for years of asserting that I`m not 100 percent British. Now I realise this would involve a massive loss of face, but fortunately there is an alternative; you could always top yourself. Which all things considered is starting to look like your best option. Face it you are insane and you`re never going to resolve that conflict with yourself.
                  Jack, Japan Alps

                • George Smiley

                  You couldn’t be more of a Japanese if you tried! Stupid imposter!

                • George Smiley

                  And this is from a Troll?! This is rich of you!

                • George Smiley

                  More like a troll from Japan who got deported from England in the 1990s or the early noughties when he was a student or an ex-student; hence all the bizarre anti-British vitriol! And “The Trans-siberian express” in 1970, my backside!

              • George Smiley

                The so-called “Japan Alps” [sic] are really a piss-poor and absurd nationalistic imitation compared with the real article lying between France, Monaco, Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Austria, Slovenia and Croatia.

                • Jackthesmilingblack

                  So after years of denial you finally admit that the Japan Alps exist. That`s a step forward of sorts. And after repeatedly denying that the Trans-siberian train ran between London and Yokohama in the early 1970s (I should know, I rode the train in 1970), you finally admit the obvious. The break of gauge was at Brest on the Polish-Russian border. No substitute for real experience. See Spectator, I`ve been telling you for years that he`s literally barking mad. Envy`s a terrible thing, it can literally twist the mind of a demented loser inside out, causing him to go in several different directions at once. Are you really a native speaker of English? Is English really your first language? Because it doesn`t sound like it.
                  Jack, Japan Alps

                • George Smiley

                  No further reply necessary—did they refuse to let your parents replace your keyboard for your private personal computer in the private room in the mental hospital in Tokyo? Did you have a stroke, and the only way to communicate is by computer?! What language is this?! I don’t ever remember the apostrophe is being general used as such in the transcribed tongue of the common, vulgar people of the Land of the Angle-Saxons!

                • Jackthesmilingblack

                  Who uses the expression “Johnny foreigner” outside a Flashman novel? Only a xenophobic racist bigot who`s just arrived from the 19th century.

                • George Smiley

                  Why had the Labour Government never got round to give you British citizenship, a certificate of naturalisation and a British passport, I shall never know! Should had lived in the Tower Hamlets!

                • Jackthesmilingblack

                  Told you he was barking mad.

                • George Smiley

                  Resorting to talking to yourself, now?!

                • Jackthesmilingblack

                  So after years of denial you finally admit that the Japan Alps exist. That`s a step forward of sorts. And after repeatedly denying that the Trans-siberian train ran between London and Yokohama in the early 1970s (I should know, I rode the train in 1970), you finally admit the obvious. The break of gauge was at Brest on the Polish-Russian border. No substitute for real experience. See Spectator, I`ve been telling you for years that he`s literally barking mad. Envy`s a terrible thing, it can literally twist the mind of a demented loser inside out, causing him to go in several different directions at once. Are you really a native speaker of English? Is English really your first language? Because it doesn`t sound like it.
                  Jack, Japan Alps

            • Blank Reg

              from http://www.japan-alps.com:

              “The Japan Alps, the “Chubu Sangaku National Park” (Central Japan National Mountain Park), encompasses four prefectures: Niigata, Toyama, Nagano, and Gifu. Nestled at the bases of the majestic peaks of the Japan Alps are seven fascinating cities, each with its own top-class sightseeing spots.

              World-famous ski resorts such as Hakuba draw visitors in all seasons; sightseers and photographers delight in the Tateyama Kurobe Alpine Route, quaint Hida Takayama, verdant Kamikochi, scenic Azumino, and historic Matsumoto Castle. Easy access allows visitors to move from one site to another, making for a truly memorable vacation in the magnificent natural surroundings of Central Japan.”

              And your nick is “vieuxceps2” so you’re hardly in any position to be criticising others.

              • vieuxceps2

                Thanks for info Reg.I like quaint,verdant,scenic and historic sites,don’t you?

                • Blank Reg

                  I’m flattered you’re chatting me up but I’m an evil bigoted nasty racist so not your type really.

                • vieuxceps2

                  Chatting up? Really, BLANK,you should get out more. Are there no other racists where you live?

            • Jackthesmilingblack

              Let`s see, there are the Northern Alps, the Central Alps and the Southern Alps. I should know, I live in the Southern Japan Alps. You really are an ignorant fuck aren`t you vieu. And I say this with all due respect, because no respect is due.

  • Hello

    I wouldn’t get drawn into the idea that this is a debate about race. It’s not. It’s just Old Labour looking for New Inequality in order to give itself a purpose. They’re just sycophants trying to project some new misery.

    • HookesLaw

      You probably have a point there.

      • Makroon

        I am becoming bored with the Spectator’s decision to turn itself into the UKIP house magazine, and encourage this sort of claptrap.
        Why would any Tory or Liberal pay to support this increasingly opportunistic journal ?
        Nelson should get a job with the BBC.

        • Wessex Man

          two peas in a pod that are dry and as appealing as two dry prunes!

        • global city

          Did they put words into Khan’s mouth?

          Have they made up part of some fictitious speech they then suggest that he made?

          What do you mean?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …maybe you need to get over with your fellow leftists somewhere, lad? You clearly don’t want anything to do with conservatism, not that the Speccie does either, no matter your whining.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes, it’s not a debate about race, because you Camerluvvies agree with the Millipedes on all of this. Basically, this is just you Camerluvvies attempting to inflame some tribalism, and see if that helps your fortunes any. It’s hypocritical, because as mentioned you socialist Camerloons agree with Lab on all this. But you’re being rejected now, and even you dolts know it, so you’re grabbing at anything and everything. Sad.

  • DaveTheRave

    Not only are they mixed up about race, they are a total irrelevance, discredited about running the economy. More than anything, they have attempted and partially succeeded in making people like me feel an outsider in what used to be my own country.

  • Ricky Strong

    “The best I dare to hope is that by the end of the century we shall be left not with a growing and more menacing phenomenon but with fixed and almost traditional ‘foreign’ areas in certain towns and cities, which will remain as the lasting monuments of a moment of national aberration” John E. Powell

    • Cooper1992

      Of course this will be the case. Sir, I don’t know which county in
      the country you are from but speak to the good folk of Hertfordshire or
      Essex in particular and they will tell you all about being replaced.

      I am a young and generally an open-minded individual. However I would
      refuse to live in an area in England that is not at least 80% English. I
      do not want my children’s education to suffer, I do not want to have to
      hear the Muslim call to prayer on a Friday night, I do not want to have
      to hear other languages being shouted at two o clock in the morning, I
      do not want to walk past a shop and not understand the writing written
      outside it, I do not want to walk down a street and get stared at, I do
      not want my local hospital to reach breaking point because it has (quite
      understandably) not been able to handle the influx of immigrants, I do
      not want to receive funny looks because I am holding a can of lager, I
      do not want to live in a town that is not united together as one.

      I don’t want to be ‘multicultural’. I visited India last year, a
      beautiful country where I experienced the best of Indian culture.

      I do not need somebody in Westminster telling me that living next to
      the worst of Indian culture will ‘enrich my life’. It doesn’t and it
      hasn’t.

      Unfortunately I do live in an area where all of these things happen and it is absolutehrll.

      My girlfriend feels threatened because there are Arab men who hang outside in the street, blaring their music and shouting in Arabic and sometimes they throw stones at each other and all this is at 2am in the morning. I went out last week and told them to be quiet and only one of them understand me. The others just laughed and said something I could not understand. Of the 24 houses in our street only 3 are occupied by “English” people. Gah I hate it here.

      • Ricky Strong

        It would appear Sir that we have much in common. I visited India when I was 15 and it changed both my life and my outlook on life considerably. A truly wonderful country and people. I do believe that Mr Powell was also enamoured with the country, but he rightly remarked ‘a man may visit and fall in love with India but he does not expect to see it on his door step when he returns home’.

        I unfortunately live in Birmingham at this moment in my life and although there are some nice areas here there are some that could serve as film sets for Pakistan, Syria, Eastern Europe or Somalia.

        I do not object to immigration, it is healthy for a society and for people generally but as has so often been said it is a numbers game. When Enoch made his Birmingham speech he was talking about figures of 50,000, we are now talking 200,000 net. Above all else, is that there is so little integration and assimilation with this mass migration. There is almost a disdain for English and British culture.

        • Fergus Pickering

          I presume the part of India you visited was not the part where they routinely rape and kill children of inferior caste. Now what part would that be?

          • Ricky Strong

            Funny you say that. It was the north east I visited as I went to the boarder of Tibet for a few weeks. No doubt there are some bad eggs there but the people I met were all good people. I honestly didn’t see the dark side of India when I was there.

      • jaz

        “generally an open-minded individual”

        that Self-evidently isn’t true.

  • anyfool

    So Labours only policy so far, is to give all public sector jobs to ethnic minorities.
    It must be as in another column Leslie says they cannot afford to reverse the current miniscule cuts that have happened.
    They will need any spare money to pay of all the white workers redundancies as they sack them to make way for ethnics.

  • Colonel Mustard

    Following devolution, instigated by New Labour, and the likelihood of Scotland leaving the Union ‘One Nation’ is a ridiculous campaign cry, even if we were to ignore the issues of disparate student fees, disparate prescription charges and disparate parking fees at hospitals.

    New Labour’s policies were divisive in so many ways and Miliband’s idea of coercing “equality and fairness” on the basis of favoured minorities and real or imaginary “victim” groups will be disastrous. Khan’s apology for accusing people of prejudice doesn’t seem to be reflected by Miliband or in the propaganda peddled by Labour’s resident activist troll who is still howling “racists” at UKIP at every possible opportunity.

    They have admitted it’s only all about gaining power. Once they’ve got it watch conciliation change to coercion. They are national socialists, a vindictive “movement”, who believe their destiny is to be the political wing of the British people as a whole and that means espousing a single party state which has politicised society to toe their line.

    • UniteAgainstSocialism

      “One Nation” has nothing to do with Britain. Its the goal of international socialism for a one nation global government (obviously socialist controlled)

      • telemachus

        The Tory Reform Group works to promote the values of One Nation Conservatism. That is, a modern, progressive Conservatism that strives for economic efficiency and social justice; a Conservatism that supports equality, diversity and civil liberties.

        • UniteAgainstSocialism

          one nation has very different meanings to patriots and traitors like the international socialism movement

          • telemachus

            But to the voter there is only one meaning

            • UniteAgainstSocialism

              thats why its is a brilliant piece of propaganda by the fascist Labour Party, it means different things to different people. But we all know what it means to the offspring of marxist immigrants like Miliband who have no loyalty to Britain. Indeed, the communist Miliband family hate Britain and have no loyalty to it.

              • telemachus

                Dacreism

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Socialist nuttery.

                • telemachus

                  The only reasoned argument I hear about Miliband from most posters is that his father once wrote a pamphlet on Marx
                  Well most students of politics have done the same

                • James Lovelace

                  “The only reasoned argument I hear about Miliband from most posters is that his father once wrote a pamphlet on Marx. Well most students of politics have done the same”

                  You leftists are incapable of telling the truth. Here’s a list of the communist Miliband’s books:

                  The State in Capitalist Society
                  Parliamentary Socialism
                  Capitalist Democracy in Britain
                  Class War Conservatism
                  Divided Societies
                  Class Power & State Power

                  Yes, he seems like just any other bod who does a course in politics. Highgate cemetery is going to get rather crowded, what with millions of politics students wanting to be buried between the hypocrite Marx and the communist Miliband.

    • tres66

      National socialists? You are mistaken! That is the third way, espoused by the Front National led ably by Marine Le Pen.

      • Andy

        It’s the bullshit espoused by the idiot Miliband.

        • telemachus

          Miliband has been branded an “action hero” after he ran into the middle of the road to rescue a female cyclist who had flipped over her bike handlebars in north London.
          *
          As in real life so in politics
          *
          Ed and team will save us next May from the decline of these last 4 years

          • Inverted Meniscus

            No he is a preposterous, narcissistic, incompetent scumbag who hates this country almost as much as his ungrateful Father.

            • Andy

              You mean that Fascist Scumbag Ralph, the man who HATED Britain.

              • Inverted Meniscus

                Yes that’s the man. He man welcomed and saved by this country who then spat in its face.

            • telemachus

              Dacreism
              Reprehensible

              • Inverted Meniscus

                Yes you are reprehensible.

          • Andy

            What a pity he wasn’t flattened by a No 19 bus. Better luck next time.

            • telemachus

              You encapsulate a difference
              Miliband cares

              • Inverted Meniscus

                About himself and the verminous scum of the Labour Party.

                • telemachus

                  About you
                  Among others

                • James Lovelace

                  So, Ed Miliband is now the 2nd coming of Christ, as well as the son of a communist.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Don’t think so. They are authoritarian socialists who speak of “one nation”, have a penchant for “correct thinking” censorship, promoting what one could describe as a modern form of gleichschaltung* and who have described their party as “nothing less than the political wing of the British people as a whole”.

        Sounds very much like…!

        * Has also been described as “forcible co-ordination” – a policy objective to bring about adherence to a specific doctrine and way of thinking and to control as many aspects of life as possible. The increasing use of moral relativism – “Labour good, everyone else bad” is symptomatic of this objective. Political correctness is a principle tool to advance it.

        • telemachus

          Once in a while even the most recalcitrant of political blog posters see sense
          *
          Labour good, everyone else bad
          *
          It is not quite true
          The emergence of the racist Ukip party has thrown up some good points in the Coalition parties

          • Wessex Man

            Your gibberish nonsense can’t hide the dark heart of National Socialsm that courses through the labour Party!

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …and all of LibLabCon.

              • telemachus

                The mission and the roll are starting:

                David Axelrod has been in Westminster this week for his first face-to-face meetings with Ed Miliband on the role he will play in the party’s general election campaign. Claims that the former Obama strategist will give Miliband a “makeover” are, I’m told, wide of the mark. A Labour source said: “You don’t hire David Axelrod to tell you what colour tie to wear.”

                Instead, his discussions with Labour have focused on strategy, polling and messaging. After a one-on-one meeting with Miliband yesterday, he met with other senior shadow cabinet members, including Harriet Harman, Ed Balls, Douglas Alexander, Michael Dugher, Sadiq Khan, Jon Cruddas and Yvette Cooper. He later had dinner with Miliband and his wife at their home accompanied by fellow Obama staffer Larry Grisolano.

            • telemachus

              Labour’s star signing David Axelrod told the party that victory for Ed Miliband in 2015 “would send a message around the world” and that was why he was “proud to have been asked” to do the job. He added: “There is a lot of alienation and anger among voters because of how the economy is working…We need to offer solutions.”

          • Colonel Mustard

            More misrepresentation and lies.

            zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

            • telemachus

              .telemachus is heartened the the best revanchist response to declarations of truth
              *
              The cry of the defeated down the ages
              *

              • Colonel Mustard

                Go and stalk someone else. Your “comments” are far from being “declarations of truth”. You don’t know the meaning of the word truth.

                • telemachus

                  We are uninterested in you as a person Mustard
                  But have to attack anyone who takes a high Sheriff role
                  I will reply to Wessex instead

                • Colonel Mustard

                  That is simply not true. You are interested to a very unhealthy degree which has even been noted by other parties here. You have now publicly admitted them to be “attacks” which is usefully and duly noted. You do not “have to attack” anyone and therefore that assertion is rather incriminating.

                  I take no role of “High Sheriff” or otherwise but merely comment as an individual exercising my right to do so. It is a pity you do not do the same and insist instead on tagging the comments of other people for the cynical purpose of gaining maximum visibility of your pro-Labour party propaganda (q.v. above where you have now tagged almost every comment). If anyone is taking a role here it is you and that is evident from any objective examination of the threads.

              • Inverted Meniscus

                You do not determine what is the truth and what is not. You are simply a proagandist for the verminous fascists of the National Socialist Labour Party.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Calling everybody who supports UKIP (and I don’t) is a filthy lie and typical of the verminous fascist scum of the Labour Party.

            • telemachus

              It is legitimate to target the forces of racism wherever they rear their heads
              Griffin, Robinson, Farage, Le Pen
              We cannot these days lock them up but we can pursue them mercilessly

              • Inverted Meniscus

                Farage is not a racist you ridiculous fascist. He has a German wife to start with.

                • telemachus

                  All part of the same Aryan breed
                  Not like the Slav’s don’t you know

    • Damon

      “They are national socialists… .”
      I dislike Labour almost as much as you, but calling them national socialists is very silly, and devalues your whole submission.

      • Colonel Mustard

        No, unfortunately it is not very silly. I wish it were. Don’t make the mistake of presuming that the specific historic actions of some national socialists have to be replicated by all national socialists in order for the term to apply.

        You are not required to agree. But what is silly is the way that Conservatives constantly underestimate them, fail to challenge their narrative of the politicised society effectively and instead let that narrative define their own policies. Labour are permitted to make the most outrageous public statements about Tories (look at that ‘Shrinking Man’ video) whilst the Tories remain largely, like you, in a world of restrained gentleman pugilists who assert, mildly, that Labour are “incompetent, self-righteous economy wreckers” to the deafening sound of scornful laughter from all the usual suspects.

        As long as Tories continue to underestimate the malevolence of Labour’s premise and agenda and fail to carry the fight to them, gloves off, they and their fellow travellers will continue to incrementally establish their single party state and a narrowing of personal freedoms. Sometimes it even appears as if some Tories are not just failing to engage the enemy but actively aiding and abetting them.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        No it most emphatically does not. They are an authoritarian, anti-Democratic Party with a loathing of free speech. They are determined to become the permanent party of government and will do nothing to end the corrupt and anti-democratic advantages they currently enjoy through misaligned constituency boundaries. Labour fervently believes it can spend our money better than we can and will lead this country to economic ruin. Can you think of a single aspect of your life that Labour does not wish to regulate? The Labour Party is fascist to the core and hence the description of them as national socialists is entirely apposite. Or are you really that naive?

        • telemachus

          Jan 2014

          It’s farewell to your centuries-old right to free speech today, after your Conservative and Liberal Democrat MPs won their bid to get the Gagging Bill passed by the House of Lords. It won’t go back to the Commons because the Lords made no amendments.

          While you, personally, will be allowed to continue complaining about anything you want, you will no longer have the ability to link up with others to protest government actions in any meaningful way as such action may breach Liberal Democrat and Tory government-imposed spending limits. Your personal complaints will be deemed unrepresentative of the people.

          With free speech flushed away, you may still resort to public protest – but the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has that covered.

          ACPO, which is funded by the Home Office, is lobbying the government for permission to use water cannons on the streets of the UK.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            That was a tissue of lies on behalf of the Fascist Labour Party; the party of lies, lying and filthy liars. Or should that be the National Socialist Labour Party? They are after all the most dishonest, incompetent, arrogant group of verminous scum ever to soil British politics.

            • telemachus

              Sad they will rule again next year
              *
              That is for you

              • Inverted Meniscus

                Why, where are you planning to build the first Gulag?

                • telemachus

                  The Gulag will not be necessary
                  Hearts and minds Meni
                  Hearts and minds

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  Or in the real world, the usual blend of fascism, dishonesty and incompetence that marks the fascist Labour Party.

                • telemachus

                  You will come to believe
                  And you will feel better

    • Mynydd

      Please be reminded that devolution of restricted powers to Wales was the result of a referendum, the people living in Wales voted for it. If as you say it was instigated by New Labour, it is only logical that they would have ordered devolution without a referendum. I would also point out Labour have never had an overall majority in the assembly, but, have shared power with Lib Dem and/or PC and at present have 50% of the seats. Even giving these restriction the Wales government has:
      Capped fees to £3000 for all students living in Wales no matter their nationality
      For those on a doctor’s list, in Wales, pay no prescription charges no matter your nationality
      When visiting a hospital in Wales you pay no parking fees, no matter your nationality.

      • Wessex Man

        My, the people’s Republic of Wales,

        Capped fees of £3,000-courtesy of the English Tax Payers via The Barnett Formula.

        For those on a doctor’s list,in Wales, pay no prescription charges no matter your nationality-courtesy of the English Tax Payers via The Barnett Formula.

        When visiting a hospital in Wales you pay no parking fees, no matter your nationality- courtesy of the English Tax Payers via The Barnett Formula.

        We all seen how earnest Leanne Wood is for her ‘independence’ we all wish that the rest of you were as well!

        • Mynydd

          The Barnett Formula returns to Wales part of the taxes Wales pay into the UK Treasury. Putting it in simple terms you may understand, it’s the same as the UK getting a rebate from the EU.
          The Wales assembly receives a block grant, it is them down to the government to spend it as it deems fit. Because Labour doesn’t have an overall majority the budget must we agreed by other parties usually Lib Dems and PC.
          When a Welsh student attends an English University the student pays £3000 and the Wales government pays the university £6000 when the charge is £9000. Therefore the English taxpayer pay nothing.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Thanks for confirming the essential contradiction of Miliband’s ‘One Nation’ by spelling out the appallingly unfair disparity in public service costs between Wales and England.

        Trying to distance those differences from Labour responsibility is farcical.

        • Mynydd

          England had the opportunity to have regional devolution, subject to a referendum, put turned it down. That’s England’s problem nothing to do with Scotland and Wales.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Regional devolution eh? Another Labour/Eurofascist ploy. Let’s have some straightforward English devolution instead,

            • Mynydd

              Don’t just write here, get up from the keyboard, go out and campaign for it. The Welsh and Scottish did over many years, it wasn’t handed to them on a plate

              • Colonel Mustard

                When the English campaign for it they get called racists.

                You really are very naive.

                • Mynydd

                  What a silly comment, what you are saying is that all those living in Wales and Scotland including the English who voted in the referendum are racist.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  No, I’m not saying that.

                • Mynydd

                  As I have said if the people living in England want a self-determining government they should go out and campaign for it, and not just sit there and wish for it. It shouldn’t be a problem as the Welsh and Scottish MPs would be on their side.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  They do campaign for it. And then they get called racists by all the usual suspects. Which was where I started before you began with your beyond dumb and unnecessary interventions.

                • James Lovelace

                  “what you are saying is that all those living in Wales and Scotland including the English who voted in the referendum are racist.”

                  Yes.
                  An English nationalist is a racist.
                  A Welsh nationalist or a Scottish nationalist is progressive.

                  No wonder Orwell was able to write 1984 and the concept of “double think” in 1948.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        More lies by a Fascist Labour Party Troll. Ignore.

        • Mynydd

          What lies are they then?

      • Mazzzz

        … When visiting a hospital in Wales you pay no parking fees …

        You are wrong on that point!

        • Mazzzz

          Sorry, I am wrong! They changed the ruling about a year or so ago.

          • Mynydd

            You are not alone, many make comments without first checking the facts.

    • DavidL

      To summarize, Labour is in favour of having its cake, and eating it.

  • Alexsandr

    and they wonder why their traditional white core vote are turning to UKIP.
    rascist comments from flabbott dont help their cause either.

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