Coffee House

I’ve just seen Nazi banners in Trafalgar Square. Well, almost

2 May 2014

3:19 PM

2 May 2014

3:19 PM

Picture the scene. Skinheads march through Trafalgar Square wearing SS uniforms and holding aloft portraits of the Fuhrer. They bring along a few right-wing Members of parliament who deliver comradely speeches and swear, arms raised in a sieg heil, to stay faithful to the party and the ‘race’.

Thankfully, there would be universal outrage at such a spectacle. Having gone through the bloody 20th century to reach a point where even a nod towards fascism is political and social suicide, we don’t need a debate on the nature of Hitlerism nor to ‘put it into context’, as the effete academics like to say. The stench around racial theory and Nazism is visceral; we have been educated politically to smell it, and only the diseased individual ever comes close to apologising for or promoting Nazi-generated race murder.


But a great deal of the ocean of blood that was spilled during the last century wasn’t spilled in the name of fascism at all, but rather in the name of an ideology which, although its followers will never admit it, bears a striking resemblance to the creed of the far-right. Indeed, in terms of the sheer numbers of people killed, communism in its Stalinist guise ‘wins’ hands down. Hitler murdered six million Jews in the Holocaust. Joseph Stalin murdered 20 million during his time as leader of the Soviet Union. Type ‘Stalin’ and ’20 million’ into Google and you get 184,000 links. The likely number killed is actually far higher. As the great historian of Stalinism Robert Conquest has put it, the figure of 20 million “is almost certainly too low and might require an increase of 50 percent or so…”.

So how would you expect a civilised person to react to anyone who attempted to downplay the crimes of Stalinism or – worse – gloried in the men who headed it and instigated its worst atrocities? At the very least you’d expect them to notice.

Well the thing is we don’t need to speculate; portraits of Stalin (20 million) and Mao (45 million) were held aloft and paraded through Trafalgar Square yesterday and no one batted an eyelid. Not that I expect members of the pubic, who are undoubtedly used to all manner of crackpot waddling through the capital’s streets, to take much notice. But you would at least want to hear a small yelp from the liberal commentariat, especially when at least one ‘radical’ MP had himself pictured with a banner featuring both Stalin and Mao (combined total 65 million). If a handful of thugs had turned out to pay homage to Hitler they would have been arrested. Hundreds have just marched for Stalin and…nothing. Why the double standard?

Totalitarianism isn’t a left/right phenomenon; it’s the logical outcome of an urge to reshape humanity like a lump of clay. Because human beings are not infinitely malleable, ideologues invariably kill those they are experimenting on – sooner that than admit they might be wrong. I say this as a person of the Left, but it’s clear to me that the Right has evidently got to grips with its totalitarian past in a way that the Left has failed to. No conservative politician would dream of sharing a platform with the inheritors of the Nazi mantle, so why are those leftists who prostrate themselves before giant portraits of Stalin not also shunned like lepers, especially when they occupy seats in the British Parliament? Why, oh why, the double standard?

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Show comments
  • Quenna

    It’s a great banner. famous leaders in the world.

  • Red Ukip

    BBC statistically mention the word ”far right” fifteen times for every time they mention ”far left”. Google it.

  • Thoughtful Ulsterman

    A large proportion of the the British public are simply ignorant, a lot due to us directly fighting the Germans and being allies with the Soviets in WWII, then by not fully knowing what was going on behind the Iron Curtain, and finally a lot probably due to the overwhelming success of Neo-Marxist subversion of the West during the Cold War era.

    A good way is simply to educate.

    I watched this great “The Soviet Story” documentary recently. It highlights these double standards, the degree of collusion between NSDAP Germany and the Soviets, and touching on atrocities that we are only just discovering (if we will ever know the truth given the length of time they have been hidden):

    (Google “Soviet Story” as Spectator auto-moderation won’t let me post links)

    Share that with all your lefty friends and relatives, as none of this stuff is really seems to be taught to most school pupils.
    Additionally, these revelations from a KGB defector and propaganda expert, Yuri Bezmenov, in the 80s revealing where the KGB’s efforts really went certainly are eye-opening:

    (Google “Bezmenov subversion” as Spectator auto-moderation won’t let me post links)

    I don’t know how you could still call yourself a “liberal” after watching that! As he says, they were successful beyond their wildest dreams, to the extent that so-called “liberals” now take pride in destroying their own nations themselves!
    Then, finally, we have our own Labour Party. The true nature if which revealed here in The Spectator and Mail, but barely a peep from the Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation on what is a massive story. (Google “labour kgb” as Spectator auto-moderation won’t let me post links)

  • Nina

    “members of the pubic”

  • The PrangWizard of England

    Socialists and Marxists, like Red Ed, are people haters. Their philosophy and actions lead to human poverty, misery and mass murder.

  • David Valenza

    Square isn’t the one with a prominent statue of genocide and notorious
    racist Churchill? Bengal famine, 2-12 million indians to exploitation
    and absolute indifference.

  • Garth Barnov

    Well done to CPGB-ML for holding the banner of comrade Stalin high

  • guber

    You are so close to the truth, Sir. What you still have not processed is that Hitler was a man of the left. Hitler was a socialist, believed in class warfare, and so was Mussolini. All that fighting between red and brown was in reality infighting. It was about whether socialism should be national or international. The idea that national socialism is “right” and this whole elusive notion of “fascism” are just smoke and mirrors veiling historically undeniable truths.

    Conservative right couldn’t be farther from Hitlerism than they are from Stalinism. It’s about time for intelligent people to renounce (loud and clear) this manipulation of the would be dictators, who like to enlist all people in their silly fighting in the left camp, so that we all forget that the real choice is between peace and liberty on the right and big-government coercive statolatriy (=fascism).on the wrong side.

  • AugustineThomas

    Leftism is a satanic religion masquerading as a humanitarian belief system.

  • Retired Nurse

    According to a recent Lords Committee convened to scrutinise the Mental Capacity Act, due to what are described as ‘failures’ in the Deprivation of Liberty safeguards, ” The evidence suggests that tens of thousands of people are being
    deprived of their liberty without the protection of the law, and without
    the protection that Parliament intended.” – busy, busy social workers are ticking a ‘competency’ box and shoving WW2 veterans and vulnerable adults in nursing homes fit for dogs in order to save their time supporting them in their own homes. These ‘assessments’ take place with no legal adviser present, with no tape recording made…I think the Fascists are already in charge, don’t you?.

  • Rillian

    I wish we could stop all this ‘Fascism is right-wing’ nonsense, perpetuated by the left to distance themselves from it.

    State control, where the people are a slave to the state, is left-wing politics.

    Right wing politics is where the state is governed by the people.

  • Q46


    You mean National SOCIALISM.

    Communist Socialism and National Socialism differ only in the former uses class war, the latter race war to bring about the reordering of society; the former takes over the means of wealth production, the latter co-opts it.

    Both are sects of the same putrid ideology and have nothing to do with the Right, near or far.

    Their latter day stable mates are Social/Liberal Democracy, sanitised, detoxified and disguised, where Socialism is called Social Justice and control of the economy and collection of wealth to the centre is called ‘progressive’… for good reason. Step by step, nothing sudden to frighten the crowd.

    Quite apt that Stalin’s image is paraded in London…

  • Bill_der_Berg

    The leftist dream is to fight again the ‘Battle of Cable Street’ when, legend has it, workers led by the Communist Party put an end to the menace of Mosley’s fascists. To them, the threat of fascism has never gone away. Only the vigilance of the intrepid ant-inazis is holding it a bay
    Stalinism, on the other hand, is a spent force. It is quite possible that Uncle Joe killed more communists than Hitler ever did, but he is a relic of the past, whereas fascism has retained its potency.

    Lefties are romantics at heart.

  • Tim Reed

    An excellent article, with one omission.

    It would have been a service to us all to have named and shamed the parliamentarian who participated in this peculiarly left-wing form of holocaust denial.

  • shoppingcartforum

    Be careful when you put Hitler, Facism and Racism together. They are ALL separate. Facism erupted out of Italy around 1919, Hitler rose to power with little formal education and a major chip on his shoulder and had adopted the Fascist ideology. It’s the element of Racism (also discrimination), that makes Facism and Racism become Nazism. Facism != Nazism.

    I understood Stalin to have killed between 50-70 million (Russians), not 20, but who knows so many years after the fact.

    TBH, I don’t think as many of the kids today actually know who Mao or Stalin are, especially, the non-Europeans youths where this doesn’t affect their history. Also, keep in mind, we decide who gets taught what. That’s the problem, the victors write the history books. What needs to change is not removing these people, but rather educating these people. One is patching the problem and the other is fixing. If one is educated, then I personally wouldn’t care if they held signs with questionable photos. It’s the uneducated where those marches become violent.

  • Simon Fay

    First I’d heard of this event, unsurprisingly, given the free-ish pass the hard left gets from most of the media. As the writer implies, here forty-eight hours later, a Nazi-tribute faction in a public event attended by a Westminster MP would have been all over the news by now, dissected to death, statements of disassociation, four-eyed trainspotter BBC politico types expounding on the green with much excitement etc.
    The lop-sidedness says a lot about who/what really won WW2.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    If Stalin had lived long enough, he might well have been awarded the OBE, just like Ceausescu.

  • berosos_bubos

    Political correctness is facism and which side of the political spectrum promotes that ?

  • Liz

    What double standard?
    The police wouldn’t arrest either a far right or a far left group displaying images of their leaders in Trafalgar Square.
    The public wouldn’t pay any attention to either demonstration.
    What you’re identifying is the absence of an Anti Communist League. And presumably that’s because righties are happier indoors in the warm writing all over the Internet while lefties are happier outside in the cold protesting.
    If they protested, they’d get the media attention.

    • darwins beard

      It shouldn’t matter what political “side” your on, this is a disgusting attempt at historical revisionism akin to holocaust denial, the fact you fail to see the blatantly obvious point being made proves James’s point beautifully. Are you a labour voter by any chance ?

      • Liz

        The blatantly obvious point that right wingers are too lazy to protest outdoors against things they disagree with?

    • darwins beard

      Oh and by the way Combat 18 would be arrested on sight as its illegal to be a member

  • Natalia

    Then we have Comrade Gove staring at the picture of Comrade Lenin in his office to get inspired, I suppose…

  • Matthew Anderson

    Right now, I’d like to draw everybody’s attention to the spelling mistake on their HUGE YELLOW BANNER.

    Good work, idiots. Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao really “KEEB” your way illuminated.

    We’re supposed to take these morons seriously?

    • darwins beard

      The Irony is these idiots are they type who take the mick out of badly spelt EDL banners while sipping Pinot at a dinner party

  • Adrian

    The Secret behind communism.

  • Jack

    I was at the march (and took the photos in this article), but I don’t believe James was.

    I’m not a Stalinist. I’m a Trotskyist, and was in a tiny minority at the march. However, this article doesn’t represent it fairly. There were about a 3rd unionists – mostly RMT because of the Bob Crow/Tony Benn theme – about a 3rd Stalinists and rest anarchists/Trots/assorted other lefties. It is appalling that groups like the CPGB-ML parade portraits of Stalin, Mao and Ho Chi Minh (really) at what is meant to be the day for workers, but they weren’t the majority of the march and most people were disgusted at their presence there.

    Part of the reason why it is so dominated by tankies is that the organising committee (who I believe are made up of CPGB-ML and TUC bureaucrats) insist on having it on the 1st of May no matter what weekday it falls on, which means it’s usually a weekday when most workers can’t make it. if it was held on the weekend you’d have a much more representative (and much bigger) march full of ordinary trade unionists.

    Also, Jeremy Corbyn’s appearance in the second photo (which I also took) is purely coincidental. He wasn’t exactly posing with it.

    • darwins beard

      Most real workers dont associate themselves with holocaust deniers/historical revisionists and supporters of a defunct and bankrupt ideology whether its Trots or trade unionists. And by the way Tony Benn called Mao “the greatest man of the 20th century”. That is a disgusting statement and goes to show there is no “socialism light”.

      What your actually saying is if this had been on Saturday there would have been more normal decent people to dilute the smelly squatter anarchists and public school educated Trots and commies making it seem a little less mental then it really is. These people do more damage then good to progressive politics because its not progressive to support a twentieth century ideology that has only caused suffering to the people it is supposed to support. Trot, Stalinist Mao or Ho Chi Min, you’re all wrong.

    • Andy

      So you are a ‘Trotskyist’. You admire Leon Trotsky, a tyrant and a murderer. There is little difference between him and Stalin. And you admire scum like that. You are an idiot.

    • serialluncher

      Trotsky would not have been much different in office. If anything a bigger warmonger. At least Stalin professed a belief in keeping his poison in one country.

  • Fergus Pickering

    Because lefties are what they are and are in love with violence. Because they were bullied at school and Stalin is their big brother. Because they are twats.

  • IfItPleasethThee

    Which MP? Anyway, what cnuts.

    • post_x_it

      Galloway presumably. It’s usually him. He turns up everywhere except in the commons.

      • Andy

        Ah but you have to ‘salute [his] Indefatigability’.

  • Smithersjones2013

    Of course the great lie in this article is that the NSDAP ( Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) has anything to do with right of centre politics. it amazes me that after all these years that a party called the ‘German National Socialist Workers Party’ could ever have been associated with right of centre politics. The rule is simple. Socialism in all its forms is the enemy of liberty and democracy. NSDAP alongside the Communist Party of the USSR are the most successful purveyors of authoritarian socialist doctrine.

    Do we have to suffer these brain dead, brainwashed contemporary socialist pygmies peddling their worthless lies and propaganda?

    • Mevarryn

      The Nazis were socialist in the same way that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is democratic, for the people or a republic. It’s just a grab bag of propaganda terms. Taking their names at face value is incredibly lazy history.

      • Smithersjones2013

        And it is incredibly dishonest to pretend that the only similarity between NSDAP and other socialist parties is in the name….

        Like other socialist parties they used bigotry against wealth and class to manipulate the working classes. They believed in a heavily government controlled economy and nationalised industries as appropriate. They adopted an authoritarian approach to addressing social issues.They preached anti-capitalism as much as they preached anti-communism etc etc etc

        PS Given the woeful record of most western nations in regard to democracy that’s probably not the best comparison there is. Very few countries actually have the benefit of meaningful democracy.(the UK no longer being one of them for some decades now).

        • Donafugata

          I’m with Mevarryn on this but you have persuaded me to a degree.

          The Nazis couldn’t quote Marx because they didn’t like Jews but neither did they care for Slavs so Bolsheviks were out of the question too.

          Extremes of right and left come full-circle when they seek total control.

          • Andy

            But Mevarryn is wrong. What he is doing is saying ‘I am a Socialist and the Nazis were nothing like me’. No one is saying they were. As I say above is a Shia not a Muslim ? Is a Sunni not a Muslim ? What they both are is strands of the same belief. The Nazis have their origin in Left wing ideology and thought and it is a strain of left wing thinking. There are similarities and the Nazis many ideas from the Soviets – the role of the ‘party’ being but one.

        • Guest

          The clue is in the name, National SOCIALIST German Workers Party, and Hitler rose to power by stirring up hatred of industrialists and capitalists (sound familiar) as well a Jews until he realised he might need them to make weapons, so yes the Nazis were very Marxist really.

      • Gregory Mason

        British politicians constantly refer to Britain being a democracy when we clearly are not.

    • DaveAtherton20

      ‘I am a Socialist,’ Hitler told Otto Strasser in 1930, ‘and a very different kind of Socialist from your rich friend, Count Reventlow’. (1)

      No one at the time would have regarded it as a controversial statement. The Nazis could hardly have been more open in their socialism, describing themselves with the same terminology as our own SWP: National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

      We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.

      Speech of May 1, 1927 as quoted in John Toland (1976), Adolf Hitler: The Definitive Biography, p. 224


  • PeteCW

    Stalin and Hitler collaborated in order to invade and occupy `Poland between 1939-1941. They were actually allies. Because the Left have to remain ignorant of history in order to believe in themselves, this grotesque reality is conveniently ignored.

    Here’s the saintly Tony Benn, hero of the Left:

    Had a long talk to the Chinese First Secretary at the embassy — a very charming man called Liao Dong — and said how much I admired Mao Tse tung or Zedong, the greatest man of the twentieth century. He said that I couldn’t admire Mao more than he did. I asked him how Mao was viewed now. He said Mao was 70 per cent right and 30 per cent wrong; the Cultural Revolution didn’t work. He said he had been named after Mao — it was amusing.

    I sense that here’s actually a form of racism going on here – the millions of murdered Slavs in the Soviet Union and the millions of dead Chinese don’t really register as people worthy of life with the Left because they’re just not the type of people one would invite to supper in Hampstead, Islington or Stoke Newington. Their humanity is easily dismissed.

  • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

    Thank God they didn’t quote Churchill, they’d be in chains by noon.

  • Raw England

    YOU are a part of it. You far Left TRAITOR.

  • Lance Green

    Liking Hitler is a thoughtcrime and confers upon you the lowest status in society, in fact almost a negative status, you are shunned and burned alive by the media and society for being a witch.

    Liking Stalin however is edgy and cool and even our most respected historians (think Hobsbawm) and philosophers (think Zizek) are Stalin apologists. Their crimes do not matter as much as how our culture interprets them. If Stalin killed 20 million and Hitler only killed 6 million, yet Hitler is considered worse, he obviously must have killed more than just those 6 million, he must have killed and violated something in our moral core that is utterly repellent to us, something that we let slide for Stalin.

    I don’t know why our culture turned out this way, the lazy neo-reactionary answer is that all our media and institutions have been taken over by leftists who are instinctively warm to Stalin rather than Hitler. The lazy new-right answer is that Jewish people are moderately prominent in the media and are far more likely to push the idea of Hitler being the worst evil, over the Bolsheviks who were overwhelmingly Jewish. I don’t know the answer but it’s interesting to think about.

    • Grey Wolf

      Good writing. I think you absolutely DO know the answer but are deterred yourself by the force of PC.

    • post_x_it

      I think the answer is quite simple. Although the outcomes of both were abhorrent, the rhetoric was rather different. Nazism was about collectivism for the chosen, and overt hatred and aggression against everyone else.
      Communist rhetoric was all about making warm and fuzzy noises: universal equality, fairness, sharing of resources, progress, happiness.
      The modern, enlightened leftie looks at the former and abhors it. Then he looks at the latter, likes what he hears, and oh so desperately wants it to be true, to such an extent that he blinds himself to the outcome.

  • Simon93

    So what, James? What do you want? Arrests?

  • Simon93

    ‘If a handful of thugs had turned out to pay homage to Hitler they would have been arrested.’

    Really? Any evidence?

    • darwins beard

      Easy one, Combat 18, it illegal to be a member. Next

  • Mark McIntyre

    Methought most Reds had turned Green ?
    Unpalatable either way – whatever their shade !

    • Grey Wolf

      ”Methought most Reds had turned Green? ”
      Please, can you explain that a little? Thanks.

      • Mark McIntyre

        The Green Party – are not most of its membership ‘Watermelons’ ? !

        • post_x_it

          Yes they are, but there are not that many of them. Certainly not enough to say that “most reds” have turned green.

          • berosos_bubos

            50 per cent conned into buying toxic diesel motorcars

    • Ironside

      Watermelons. Green on the outside, red on the inside.

  • Mike Stallard

    Meanwhile a man who took a megaphone and quoted Winston Churchill (how many murders did he commit?) from the steps of the town hall is arrested.

  • you_kid

    Marx really scares the pants off me.

    • Mike Stallard

      Please do not muddle up Marx with Stalin. That is totally unfair. Parallels? Jesus and the Spanish Inquisition, Hegel and Brezhnev, the Declaration of Independence and Guantanamo Bay.

      • Grey Wolf

        One does lead to the other. If you begin with Marx, down the road there will be Stalin and Mao (and Pol Pot) wanting to drive your car.

        If you begin with Jesus (or for that matter any mid-east desert religion and its prophet or god), the inquisition is waiting round the corner to burn you for your heresy (and believe me they will find a reason) or stone you to death.

        • Mike Stallard

          This really is ridiculous. If people take a serious thinker’s words and twist them – then the original thinker is to be blamed? that cannot be right.

          • you_kid

            Wise words – hence UKIP are the biggest socialists Britain has ever seen since M&S.
            When the free market does not work in your favour you turn to UKIP’s socialist protectionism for comfort.

            • Fergus Pickering

              What are you talking about? The EU is socialist proctectionism. UKIP are against the EU. And you are an idiot.

              • you_kid

                What are you on about? UKIP are protectionist lefties. Their ads are for losers. How is it a ‘free market’ when you heavily control the main part – labour movement? Not even Millipede would come up with such nonsense. You are an idiot.

                (see what I did there?)

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Indeed I did. You clever little chap.

                • Grey Wolf

                  ”(see what I did there?)”
                  Made a perfect a r $ e of yourself.

        • Fergus Pickering

          And if you begin with Richard Dawkins…

          • Grey Wolf

            ask him

      • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

        They are indistinguishable on the spectrum.

    • Grey Wolf

      I think at this stage you don’t have to pretend that you are so conservative and so scared of Marx.

      There are far worse and dangerous saboteurs of national culture and heritage right here and in our immediate surrounding.

    • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

      Yet you oppose UKIP, under the liblabcon you are experiencing a Chinese water torture of Marxism.

  • Johnny Wong

    So you’e offended? Deal with it.

    • post_x_it

      What’s your point? He is dealing with it. He’s even written down his thoughts on the subject.

  • Curnonsky

    “Why the double standard”? Because plainly the Left have never truly repudiated totalitarianism, merely regrouped after the fall of Communism for another day.

  • Liberty

    I was with you until you said that Naziism is part of the Conservative ideological past and communism part of the Labour past. Naziism has nothing in common with the Conservatives; the Conservative ideological past is the laissez fair, libertarian, non racist and anti-totalitarian. Naziism was national socialist, racist, totalitarian, etc. The Labour party has far more in common with both Naziism and Communism. Both were totalitarian although Communism was not racist and the Labour party has definite totalitarian tendencies.

    • Mevarryn


    • Matthew Edward Cooper

      “the Conservative ideological past is laissez fair, libertarian…”

      That’s Manchester Liberalism which is what passes for conservatism in the Anglophone world these days.

      For actual conservatism try the likes of Maistre, Bonald and Cortes.

    • MikeF

      “communism was not racist” – the Tibetans in China and the Crimean Tatars in the Soviet Union are just two examples of peoples who might dissent from that assertion.

    • eccles11

      There is nothing at all libertarian about conservatism, conservatives want to and always have wanted to control what you do just as much as liberals and social democrats, they just have different ideas of what issues state violence should be used to enforce.

  • James S

    There were there last year as well, with the same banner, being addressed by Trades Unions that are major donors to the Labour party. Not a story that was covered by the BBC, obviously.

    • Vladimir

      Don’t worry: we are such good Communists that even we hate the Labour party and your far right ideology at the same level. As for us, humble Communists you all accomplish the same function of masters or slaves on a Capitalistic state.

      Very funny article I must say; I think I will come over here more often!

  • Novus

    The right doesn’t need to get to grips with its “totalitarian past”. The Nazis were collectivists just like the communists. With your last paragraph you implicitly accept and thereby perpetuate a fundamental untruth.

    • post_x_it

      Absolutely correct. Churchill and De Gaulle were men of the right. And whose side were they on in the war?

      • Liberty

        And who was it that forged links with Stalin and sold jet technology to Russia? the Labour government. Russia then put jets in MIG 15s that blew the Americans out of the sky over Korea when they were on the verge of winning. We have Atlee to thank for the US losing the Korean war and the world getting North Korea.

        • Fergus Pickering

          If ther US had lost the Korean war then there would be no South Korea at all.

          • Liberty

            Are you suggesting that that would be a good thing?

            • Gregory Mason

              A united Korea under Seoul would have been a much better than the situation is now. Why, do you like North Korea or something?

      • PeteCW

        Churchill was on Stalin’s side wasn’t he? Did you notice we were allied with the Soviets during WW2? I think there’s probably a history book about it somewhere. What’s your point?

        The Nazis were not collectivists – the Reich was only for German and Aryan peoples. Others would be enslaved or murdered as subhumans. Communism intended to make everybody who fell under it’s influence equal – nationalities, classes and religions would be eradicated by massive and appalling oppression if necessary. BUt absolute equality was the Soviet goal.

        Don’t be fooled by the Socialist in National Socialist Party. After all, the word Party in National Socialist Party doesn’t mean that they attacked Poland with balloons and streamers or murdered Jews with little sausages on sticks and Tesco lemonade.

        • Liberty

          The Russian alliance was indispensible to the Allies. If Germany had not invaded Russia and been repulsed we may not have won the war at all.

        • post_x_it

          Britain was allied with Russia due to having a common enemy that was threatening both. That doesn’t make Churchill a friend of Stalin’s, and you can’t seriously suggest that he was a supporter of Stalin’s political ideology. They had a common interest in containing an aggressive, expansionist Germany, and that’s as far as it goes.

        • Donafugata

          I think the only person being fooled is you by believing that the Soviet goal was “absolute equality”

          You sound like you’re 14 years old, do read some
          Anthony Beevor.

        • Andy

          You forget that Stalin and Hitler signed a non aggression pact and carved up Poland between them.

          • límon

            Britain and France signed a Nonaggression Pact with Hitler that “partitioned” another state — Czechoslovakia.

            • Andy

              But Britain and France did not annex Czechoslovakia. Stalin and Hitler took Poland.

        • Simon Fay

          “word Party in National Socialist Party doesn’t mean….”
          Thanks for making me chuckle at this daft image amid this uber-grim old chestnut of a debate.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          What a charmingly naive view of Russian communism. I have read many history books and you might like to try volume 6 of Churchill’s Second World War. It is called Triumph and Tragedy and it makes quite clear that he realised that we had defeated Nazism only to replace it in Eastern Europe with something worse. Some modern historians now believe that Stalin was responsible for the deaths of more than 30 million soviet citizens, most of them from ethnic minorities and non-Russians. Even that pales into insignificance compared to the 50 million or more murdered by Mao and Chinese communism. To suggest that the goal of Russian communism was equality simply makes you look a laughing stock.

    • Mevarryn

      Your thinking is too black and white. Half marks for effort.

      • Novus

        Your assertion is high-handed and conspicuously unelucidated. Zero marks for content.

  • Andy

    No one comments because the broadcast media is controlled by people who share this world view. The crimes of Stalin and Mao are swept under the proverbial carpet and the Left has been very adept at distancing themselves from the crimes of Hitler and the Nazis, who were also of the Left.

    • Mevarryn

      I guess you’re one of those ”Of course the Nazis are socialists, it even says so in the name!” But yes I agree on your comment regarding ignored crimes.

      • Andy

        I guess you’re one of those ‘Of course the Nazis are conservatives’.
        Nazisum has its origins in Socialism, as does Fascism. I suggest you study what the Nazis believed and what they themselves said.

        • PeteCW

          Didn’t they believe and say that communism and bolshevism were a Jewish plot to to take over the world?

          Now – did the Nazis admire or despise the Jews? Have a little think about it. (The answer might be on the internet somewhere if you’re having trouble).

          • Mevarryn

            Indeed. The whole Nazis being socialists lark is kinda contradicted by the fact that socialists were one of the main targets for arrest and intimidation. Unless the Nazis were trolling us…

            • post_x_it

              More to do with being the main rival political force at the time. The Nazis had to stamp them out in order to consolidate their power grab.

            • Andy

              So by your logic (if that is what it is) a Shia is not a Muslim because he is not a Sunni. Are they both not Muslims ??

              The Nazis were a type of Socialist so they persecuted other Socialist who did not share their version of it. The Left is riven by divisions as to who is the true lefty.

          • Paul Austin Murphy

            “Didn’t they believe and say that communism and bolshevism were a Jewish plot to to take over the world?”

            Your logic is staggering poor. How does the fact that Hitler and the Nazis hated the Jews automatically stop them from being socialists?

            Some of the best Jew-haters have been socialists and communists: from Marx himself all the way to Norman Finkelstein today.

            Have you read Marx’s own diatribes against the Jews? In fact he hated the Jews for the same reason that the Nazis – some 70 years later! – hated them: he fused capitalism and the Jews together in his mind. Contemporary Leftists still do that. That’s why they focus obsessively on Israel – because it is a “capitalist democracy”, not only because of Palestine, etc.

            Nazis and communists/socialists fuse on the Jews, as well as on their hatred of what they both call “capitalist democracy”.

          • Andy

            Rather a silly remark. Stalin persecuted Jews, as do many Lefty tyrannies. And today the worst Jew haters – usually covered by the ‘I’m not anti-Semitic, I’m anti-Zionist and anti-Israel’ – are on the left. You only have to look on the Guardian website and see how unhinged they become at the very mention of Israel.

            • eccles11

              “. And today the worst Jew haters – usually covered by the ‘I’m not anti-Semitic, I’m anti-Zionist and anti-Israel'”

              There is no difference between this and those who cry racism when someone criticises Islam. It’s an attempt to shut down debate by applying a crude and charged label to someone who may have legitimate criticism of the views of Islamists or zionists.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            You really are determined to make a complete fool of yourself aren’t you? The Nazis philosophy towards Judaism does not preclude them from having socialist origins. “I am a socialist” Adolf Hitler.ndifficult to be clearer than that.

        • eccles11

          Racism, social conservatism, pro-traditional family unit. They believed in a lot of very conservative things, things that are diametrically opposed to socialism.

          • Andy

            And they believed in a lot of very socialist things, things that are diametrically opposed to conservatism.

            You, as a Socialist, could support much of their programme.

            • eccles11

              Except that I am not a statist, I share almost nothing, if anything in common. You as a conservative could find much common ground.

      • Fergus Pickering

        Well Naziz are certainly not conservatives, old fruit

      • Donafugata

        I’ve come across the belief that Nazis were Socialists thing before, perhaps at Guardian Towers.

        I don’t think it is as much to do with ideology as the person’s age.
        Either the younger generation are completely ignorant of the history or there has been some serious revisionism being taught in schools.

        Sit them down in front of “The World at War”, they might learn something.

      • Gregory Mason

        “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” – Adolf Hitler

  • Billy Bob

    That was exactly my reaction when I saw this march in London a few years ago. Its an outrage that they are not held to account and pilloried on the news/newsnight for upholding such abhorrent views. Where is the so-called UAF protests against this sort of gauche-fascism?!

    • Donafugata

      “Where is the UAF…..”

      Probably on the march.

      • PeteCW

        The UAF are a front for the SWP – the grim little rape excusers that draw inspiration from Stalin. I suspect that they – like Stalin – would have ally themselves with fascists if it meant that they got the power over others that they fantasise about.

        • Thoughtful Ulsterman

          Remember that both the Nazis and Soviets used the excuse that they were “fighting Polish fascists” when they conspired together to invade Poland.

      • plutonium853

        probably collecting their pay from the muslim brotherhood

        • Vladimir

          Yeah, you uncovered us!

          Now we won’t be able to preach about the Islamic scientific atheism and our dream of a Godless society where we all go to the mosques to preach five times a day will never be a reality!.

          Sorry not to stop more, but we Leninists need to talk to some zombie Nazis to clone dinosaurs and take all over the parliament house to do a secret agreement with the Labour Party and sell the UK to black immigrants.

          • plutonium853

            my my did mum write this for you or did you copy it from the website? Caught out? no i don’t think so, the minority have known about it for years but as the main party being lib/lab/ con have suppressed the majority for so long they are getting twitchy now! go back to bed before you overdo it!

            • Vladimir

              Do not worry about my mother, as she is quite far away from here. I am just one of those dirty immigrants who come from a Mediterranean country to invade your country (A little bit of a moral vengeance for those years of terribly drunk Brits vomiting, causing problems and transforming our beaches into landfills).

              As you can imagine, your twisted far right ideas don’t interest me to even a bare minimum, nor you can offend me. However I find terribly amusing to read the comment section of those pages, and you seem to deserve a crown on ridiculous comments. And I must say that despite being accidentally defending the UAF, (although for very different reasons to you) I don’t hate them less than you. To me, they are an opportunistic, Trostkist movement. You…. well, try to remove your tinfoil hat first, is not so bad!

    • Mevarryn

      The UAF is out pretending they’re relevant.

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