Coffee House

Is he or isn’t he a racist? Why politicians don’t want to give a straight answer about Farage

19 May 2014

5:14 PM

19 May 2014

5:14 PM

Mainstream politicians, never known for giving a straight answer, have been giving particularly wibbly and unclear responses to one particular question today. Is Nigel Farage a racist and was what he said about Romanians moving in next door racist?

Ed Miliband did pick a particularly tortured definition of what Nigel Farage had said when asked about it on the Today programme. It was a ‘racial slur’ but Farage is not a racist, or at least, Miliband didn’t want to make politics more ‘disagreeable’ by accusing Farage of being a racist. But he did say that Farage was right to apologise. Helpfully, Nick Griffin pitched in to tell BBC News that Farage wasn’t racist, presumably on the basis that it takes one to know one.

David Cameron decided that he would leave others to judge whether Farage was a racist, which is a very unusual example of a politician not intervening in a debate to give their own judgement. He told BBC News:

‘I think he has said in recent days some really pretty unpleasant things and he even himself has had to admit that he got it wrong. So I’ll leave others to judge, but what I’ve heard from some of the candidates, some of the donors to the party is a succession of pretty appalling things.’


Why are the party leaders dancing so carefully around what they think of Nigel Farage? The first reason is that Ukip is not a racist party and so to brand it as such would be a lie. Perhaps there is also confusion over whether stereotyping of Romanians is xenophobic rather than racist.

But the second is that to brand Ukip and Nigel Farage racist would also damage the three parties, who are all bleeding voters to Ukip. David Cameron may have upped his aggression on Ukip in the past couple of weeks, but he is still keeping his language in check, and tries to gloss over the ‘fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists’ line of yesteryear. Miliband meanwhile needs to avoid straying into Gillian Duffy-style behaviour and conflating concern about immigration with racism.

Both men know that these sorts of approaches feed the Ukip persecution complex no end, which in turn helps the party to recruit supporters. The sense that you are being persecuted by mainstream politicians and the press makes you pull together as a band of voters, not separate. Hence the careful words of the normally plain-speaking Eric Pickles at the weekend, and of Ed Miliband and then David Cameron today.

But then other MPs lower down the ranks think it’s worth accusing Farage of making racist comments. David Lammy told the Daily Politics that ‘what Nigel Farage said over the weekend was racist. So I’m clear: he’s a racist’. The Labour MP did try to avoid contrasting what he had said with Miliband’s earlier comments, saying ‘I think it’s not helpful to get into a pedantic discussion over the difference between a racial slur and racism. He is the leader of a national party. He should not be slurring whole communities of Romanians and describing them as bandits and criminals’.

Yvette Cooper also told ITV News that ‘it’s not racist to be worried about immigration or to want stronger controls, but it is racist to somehow stir up fears about Romanians living next door. So Ukip should say they were wrong on that’.

For once, then, it’s the Conservatives who have a united voice on Ukip, even if they are disguising what they really think behind careful words. Labour may want to develop a party line too on the is-he-or-isn’t-he-racist question before the entire PLP finds itself being surveyed as to whether it agrees with Miliband or with Cooper and Lammy.

Subscribe to The Spectator today for a quality of argument not found in any other publication. Get more Spectator for less – just £12 for 12 issues.

Show comments
  • John Sydenham

    There are two types of racist, those who oppose people from other races and those who want to destroy all diversity.

    The second type of racist, those who are working towards a “final solution” to the “problem” of diversity are everywhere. Most journalists are screaming racists of the second kind.

    See Modern Racism.

    We must end this sickening Establishment racism now.

  • english_pensioner

    ConLibLab are desperately seeking anything to smear UKIP.
    Guido points out today that Labour are happy to criticise UKIP for using a photograph of a War Cemetary in one of their leaflets whilst at the same time one of their own councillors publishes a leaflet showing a concentration camp with the slogan “A vote for Tories means more of the same”.
    Something about pots and kettles comes to mind!

  • The Commentator

    What is clear is that the three main parties love to put criminals into senior posts in government. Six former Labour MPs including two former ministers sent to prison, Lib Dem cabinet minister off to prison, former Tory cabinet minister sent to prison and their charismatic former candidate for Mayor of London.
    So when attributing unpleasant characteristics to UKIP members the main parties have to tread rather carefully.

  • AnotherDave

    Both Yvette Cooper, and more so her husband Ed Balls, are MPs for very UKIP-demographic seats.

  • Sapporo

    Watch Farage demolish Paxman again. I love the quip about Roger Helmer being born in the same year. Its is great to see a politician who is not speaking from the same, PR, hymn sheet.

  • Denis_Cooper

    Last night on Newsnight Nigel Farage claimed that just over the past week 17 councillors had been ARRESTED on various charges, some quite serious.

    OK, so somebody may claim that it wasn’t 17, on their count it was only 15, but the point is that these are all people elected as councillors on the recommendation of the Tory, Labour or LibDem parties who have behaved in ways that have justified their arrest for REAL CRIMES.

    Meanwhile, during this election campaign maybe about the same number of UKIP candidates have been accused not of real crimes, but merely of THOUGHT CRIMES; and those people, fewer than 1% of all the UKIP candidates, have been assiduously drawn to the attention of the public through the mass media while the arrest of Tory, Labour and LibDem councillors has been largely ignored by the same media.

    And we know who has been principally responsible for trawling through the back stories of over 2000 UKIP candidates to dig up whatever dirt they can find, and we know who has been feeding the stories to the media, apparently even with an arrangement with the newspapers that they will be provided with a stream of salacious stories provided they go easy on the Tories.

    As I have repeatedly said, there are still many decent patriotic people who are members of the Tory party, and it may be asked how they will feel about the despicable behaviour of those leading their party; perhaps we will get some indication the next time that party publishes its membership figures.

  • Thoughtful Ulsterman

    The reason they can’t agree is because there is no precise definition of the word. It was coined by Trotsky and used by his comrades to try and destroy the nation state and as a manipulative tool to shut down debate.

    Its use in any form of debate or rhetoric is totally and utterly pointless. Better debate (something which the electorate will treat you with a bit less contempt for) can be made using more precise language such as “racial hatred” or “racial identity” etc. The same goes for other Commie phrases of choice such as “sectarian”, “discrimination”, “equality”, “bigotry”, “prejudice”, “hegemony” etc. These are all used by Neo-Marxists in all major parties in a way which they think shouting any of them means that they automatically win an argument, but the public are seeing through this nonsense at large. None of these terms are either inherently positive or negative in meaning, and if you were actually debating policy for the best of the nation as your job entails, rather than party-political wrangling, then you would be discussing the nuanced arguments around such points.

    The electorate can see after years of this ad hominem nonsense that it is because politicians only care for themselves and their own positions within their parties rather than the country. The despicable behaviour of the media in the past few weeks puts them in just as bad a light, if not a worse light, for caring more about party-political one-upmanship rather than the nation.

  • Conway

    Trouble is, all the main parties are singing from the same hymn sheet, but the voters are humming a different tune.

  • Agrippina

    Channel4news, had an attempt at discussing whether or not Farage was being racist. Romanians recent and old arrivals said as follows, Oana Romocea says Ukip leader Nigel Farage’s comments are a “smokescreen” for getting Britain out of the EU, while political refugee Mariana Gordan believes Mr Farage was “not far wrong”.

    So that rather backfired as Ms Gordan (been here 30yrs) said that the Roma or gypsies as she called them, are awful and you would not want to live nextdoor to them. Jon Snow cut away quickly as that did not fit in with his news agenda at all!

  • Agrippina

    The media & politicians have been saying of Farage that ‘his mask is slipping’. Ergo they mask their own feelings and facts, slip on a mask and in the hope of hanging onto power at any cost, will say whatever is necessary to cling onto it.

    There is no mask, he is simply saying how would you feel if in a tiny 2 bed property a group of men, quite frankly of any nationality moved in. Noise levels would be high, rubbish generated & the fact the when nature calls you may have to go outdoors would lead to a pretty torrid time for all. They do not choose to live like that, probably being exploited.

    As Keir Hardie told a Select Committee in 1889 ‘that the foreigners had filthy
    habits and 6 or 7 males occupied a one-roomed hse’. He was referring to the Lithuanians hired by Glengarnock Ironworks which led to the indigenous workforce being laid off.

    It is rotten govts failing to provide for their own citizens and happy to see the low paid being exploited, that is the problem.

  • Lady Magdalene

    What Mr Farage said was considerably milder than the statement Peter Hollobone, Conservative MP had to say about the crime wave in London being perpetrated by Romanian criminal gangs.
    It was also rather milder than David Blunkett’s statement about Slovakian Roma who were behaving atrociously and were likely to cause a riot in Sheffield.
    Mr Clegg agreed with Mr Blunkett that the activities of the Slovakian Roma were reprehensible and they had to be made to change their culture to something acceptable to the British residents.
    We have Sanjiv Javid telling Asians that they have to speak English and adopt British culture. We have the Conservative Govt funding advertising vans telling illegal immigrants to go home or face arrest
    5 Labour Councillors in Middlesborough got sacked for racism.
    The Conservatives have an extremist Muslin cleric standing for them in Newnham, promising to enact policies which will suit the local Muslim community (and s0d the rest).
    Both Labour and the Tories have ex BNP members representing them.
    But the only thing the MSM report are smears against UKIP and a witchhunt against Mr Farage.
    If the think this will stop us supporting and working for our Party, they are wrong. It makes me more determined.

  • Smithersjones2013

    Even when Farage does back himself in the corner the corrupt mindset of the establishment politician kicks in

    “Rascism is evil” they say. ‘UKIP is racist’ they think but will the leaders confront it? Oh no! It might cost them votes which just goes to show what low-life self serving sewer vermin our establishment leaders are. They are not fit to adorn the underside of a Romanians shoe.

    Of course the irony is that many of the Eastern European nations have much larger racism problems than the UK. How ironic it would be if such racism is allowed to enter this country through the actions of those who so protest against it……

  • Blindsideflanker

    You see how weak the media is at pursuing racists from the Labour party.

    The Channel 4 news presenter , Ms Newman, actually asked Dianne Abbott about her racist comments ……”White people love playing ‘divide & rule'”., you might say good for her she actually raised the issue. Unfortunately that was as far as it went, she let Abbott off by claiming she was referencing the British colonial actions. What Newman failed to understand and pursue Abbott about was that Abbott had sought to discriminate on the basis of race, not colonial authorities.

  • Blindsideflanker

    The left have appointed themselves as Witch Finder Generals of what they determine as racist. Sometimes it is race, sometimes it is religion, sometimes it is national, sometimes it is culture, and when its not overt they will get you for subconscious racism. What ever the scenario the left have a racist charge ready and waiting to do you in on.

    What I find odd is that the other political parties haven’t attempted to turn the tables on them.

    Lets look at Labour, they have put racism on the statute books in the form of their constitutional dogs breakfast. How much more racist can you get than to make a people, the English people constitutional second class citizens, where they have facilitated the discrimination of the young, sick and old.

    They would also deny us our rights under the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which says Article 15(1) Everybody has a right to a nationality. And what is nation?……a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory. So who is racist, the person who says he doesn’t want to be marginalised in his own country by an influx of foreigners. or the left who will call you racist for complaining about it?

  • the viceroy’s gin

    You’re now a skipper too, lass. Constantly shrieking “waaaaaaycism” does that.

    I must say though, you have finally settled on a level of political reporting that matches your intellectual and educational levels. It’s a fit for you.

  • London Calling

    As soon as you use the word immigrants you are accused of being racist. When is it racist to carte about the impact immigration has on Great Britian. The question is, when is enough, enough? when is the right time to discuss immigration without offending others?…………. I dont think Farage is a racist, but its a sore subject with many and it is not an easy topic to talk about. I think immigration is a major concern for many in the UK and its not going away any time soon….:)

  • Dexter

    Isabel, UKIP are being persecuted and you know it…

  • HookesLaw

    Its pretty clear Farage is giving out racist and homophobic and xenophobic dog whistles. You only need to look here and see how many people are happy to jump up at the sound of the whistle.

    • southerner

      I do hope you and the socialist Camerluvvies will be available and as busy on the keyboard on Friday morning as you are today.
      By the way don’t bother with any of the following phrases : “mid term”, ” taken difficult decisions”, “general election is all that counts”, “stay the course”, “long term plan” or anything similar.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Yes, if that failed socialist Camerluvvie rabble finishes 3rd, it’s going to be time for them to face the heat.

    • Tom

      Where can you get these whistles,it would be great to post them with the leaflets.

  • Andy

    I wish a group of Romanian men go and live next door to that hag Cooper. She will soon learn that what Nigel Farage said was no one than the bloody truth. Happened to a friend of mine so I know the realty unlike big gob Cooper. You could also look at the Met Police figures where by far the greater number of foreign nationals arrested were Romanians.

    • HookesLaw

      Poor Mr Farage he says he was tired when he said nasty things about the Romanians. He always has an excuse doen’t he. Still it must mean he – and you – are (officially at least) wrong.
      Hard to see how such an obvious xenophobe as Farage can negotiate anything to our advantage.

      ‘Despite doomsday predictions of a crime wave following the arrival of
      Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants in January 2014, the number of arrests
      has barely fluctuated and charges have gone down since the beginning of
      the year, police figures show.’
      ‘In the first three months of 2014 the number of Romanians convicted of
      crimes in the whole of the UK was 1,522, a 15.3% reduction’
      ‘The figures show that “the proportion of crimes committed in London by
      Romanian nationals is in line with their representation in the
      population, if not lower,” ‘
      ‘Romanians make up roughly 2.8% of all of the arrests made in London,
      where the Met makes approximately 20,000 arrests a month. Bulgarians
      make up just 0.4% – a total of 79 in the whole month of January.’

      Faced with these facts perhaps you can explain Farage’s tired comments.
      He may well not be racist – though you would hardly think so from his comments – but he clearly pushes and prods and nudges people to be racist.
      I know he is desperate because people are not bothered about leaving the EU – but you have to be a nasty ignorant piece of work to justify yourself the way Farage does.

      • MirthaTidville

        tell you what hooky…wait till they are living next door to your gaff and lets see if you still pontificate your total horsesh$t..

        • Andy

          Exactly. When a group of Romanian men moved next door to a friend of mine the anti-social behaviour started immediately – the Police became frequent callers. The thefts started (he lost a number of things) – the Police were informed. Eventually the landlord (Asian) terminated the lease after 6 months, enough being enough. Loudmouth scum like Hookey and Cooper should have a group next door to them and then they will realise the reality. What Farage said was true, and that is what scum like Hookey can’t stand.

  • saffrin

    David Lammy told the Daily Politics that ‘what Nigel Farage said over the weekend was racist. So I’m clear: he’s a racist’.

    David Lammy, I remember him, black fella in a suit.

    • Blindsideflanker

      He is also that Black fella who said that Bernie Grant’s constituency should be kept for black people. In other words him, and not for Bernie Grant’s widow who was white.

      What is worse than a racist? A racist hypocrite.

      • Andy

        Lets set up a ‘White Police Officers Association’, with exactly the same membership terms as the Black equivalent. See how far that one goes.

      • Airey Belvoir

        So dim is David Lammy that he thought that the black smoke from the Vatican chimney during the Papal selection had racist connotations.

    • ButcombeMan

      And Channel 4 News managed to dredge up what many think is racist talking head Diane Abbott, to tell us, Farage made a racist remark.

      The way the MSM are playing this is ensuring the UKIP turn out.

      The Brtish always like an underdog.

      • Conway

        The British also have a well developed sense of fair play – something the Msm and politicos fail to appreciate.

  • MirthaTidville

    I am sick to the back teeth of clowns shouting Racist at every verse end. They have no more idea what its about than what it would be to live next door to immigrants who have a very different view of this country than the rest of Joe Public has. To express such views is plain common sense and nothing to do with ist on the end of it…

    What it has all to do with is the MSM (Speccie especially) petrified at the thought of UKIP cleaning up. Well keep going, three `lets attack UKIP` threads in one day must be a record, because the more you do the more they will clean up…..panicking dolts!!

  • SimonToo

    There are so many definitions of “racist” that everyone has to be a racist under at least one definition. (We’re all in it together).

    • wycombewanderer

      I think it should be up to the electorate to decide what is and isn’t racist, few of us need to be told by a metropolitan elitist journo or a politician!

      • HookesLaw

        Too right. Where is Raw England?

  • Laguna Beach Fogey

    The article assumes “racism” is actually a thing and that it is a bad thing.

    Who cares.

    • HookesLaw

      There – you see what Farage has done.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        He’s confronted you socialist nutters?

  • Tom

    The reason the politicians are scared to say what they think is because they want to cover all bases.
    They are all slippery and devious at least with UKIP you know what they stand for and you either vote for them or not.
    Labour commit on nothing and are the most slippery of the lot.
    Conservatives say little because every time they do they lose support to UKIP
    Libdems leader is Nick Clegg need i say more.

  • Kitty MLB

    Nigel Farage is a good egg and absolutely not a racist, I am speaking of himself.
    But of course to have an opinion the word Racist is now banded around far too much.
    Labour that party who sees colour , can they say they are not racist.
    And does being labelled racist stop you from stating the obvious and defending your country, that word is now used as a weapon by those who wish to manipulate.

    • john king

      The word “Racist” is the brainchild of a certain Communist named Trotsky.The fact that political parties seem to have a love of the word tells us more about these parties than it does the person accused of “racism”.

  • edithgrove

    We seem to be having the same problem with Mr Farage we had with witches in the middle ages, so perhaps the best thing to do would be to dunk him under water three times and see if he floats to the top. That’ll either prove he is or he isn’t.

    • Hello

      Did David Silvester propose that? I’ve not heard anyone suggest that racists float.

      • Alexsandr

        you have it the wrong way round. witches floated, non witches sank. floaters were executed. non floaters drowned.

        • Hello

          And yet, if racists don’t float, I fail to see what the exercise would reveal. I reckon I still have it the right way around.

          • Alexsandr

            floating voters? 🙂

            • Hello

              Oh, very good. Very good.

          • HookesLaw

            Ropes were attached and the non floaters pulled out – in so far as it happened at all.
            Who can it possibly be, roaming the country spouting rabble rousing rubbish against minorities, that reminds you of Matthew Hopkins?

            Tough one that.

      • edithgrove

        David Silvester, the critic who interviewed Giacometti on the BBC? He might have done.

        • Hello

          Maybe, but I think that because of the context it’s more probable that I was talking about the former Ukip councillor. But how were you to know, Gunther?

          P.S. Did you read Alex Massie’s blog earlier about how Ukip have a stupidity problem?

          • edithgrove

            Oh yes, my mistake, you’re much more likely to have heard of a Ukip councillor than two major figures in 20th century art.
            Gunther, who he?

  • Denis_Cooper

    My God, have you seen the latest?



    And to think that some people are still prepared to defend him!

  • @PhilKean1

    I don’t want ANY Romanians, or Polish, or French, or Germans –

    – or ANY other EU national living next-door to me who is allowed to come to live and work in Britain without needing to apply for a time-limited visa.

    And as for accusations that Nigel is racist? He isn’t. But I wouldn’t care if he was.

    I am voting to empower a political movement that aims to return control of Britain’s MPs back to the British people. And I wouldn’t care if the Devil himself was my ally in so noble a cause.

    • @PhilKean1

      I wish these Romanians would move next-door to all those Liberal-lefties who’re trying to smear Nigel Farage.

      • HookesLaw

        Would you like to have lived next to Fred West?

    • HookesLaw

      There we go – yep now you see what Farage has done and you prove my earlier point. Farage is happy to encourage racists like you. Indeed the more Farage is criticised the more racist you become.
      It could be that you are simply mad and a hysteric. But for me its simple – you are driven by racism. The truth is quite simply lost on you.

      • @PhilKean1

        How bold of you to accuse me of racism at the same time you hide behind a pseudonym.

        You make me want to spew, you hysterical nutter. It escapes my why you aren’t embarrassed to display your abject intellectual illiteracy.

        I defy you to find any rational, intelligent, DECENT individual who agrees with your disgraceful assertion.

        • MirthaTidville

          Wasting your breath Phil, he`s just a modern day Tory, indistinguishable from Labour…

        • JimmyLinton

          If you really wanted to, it would take no more than twenty minutes to discover who this creature really is.

      • Fergus Pickering

        Racism? You may have noticed that Somalis prefer the company of other Somalis and pakis that of other pakis. Have you noticed? So naturallly white English people prefer the company of other white English people. Are you wit me so far? Even you, Hooky, in your secret soul… Are you still here?

        You will note I used the word pakis, since everybody knows what it means. Would you prefer pakistanis or people of pakistani extraction?

        • Thoughtful Ulsterman

          The reason you can’t say such a logical shortening of the Pakistani. nationality is primarily due to Indians and because the Indians hate the Pakistanis and so kicked up fuss at any hint of association. In other words the Indians are “sectarian bigots”! I had great banter between an Indian friend when he told me about this, so since that point on his Indian nationality is now referred to properly as the full proper term of “Pakistani”! 😀

    • John Dalton

      This article really is a load of utter tosh. “Wibbly”? Really, Isabel?

      Farage is not a racist, UKIP’s not racist and neither are 98% of the people planning to vote for them despite your best efforts to stop them.

      People are allowed to question, express dismay or reject the traitorous policies of mass immigration and cultural displacement forced upon us by three main parties – who all want more of the same – without being beaten over the head until they roll over with a whimper and accept it. It’s not because they’re racist – and calling them so is just a way of trying to bully them into shutting up.

      Farage has his faults but at least he’s fighting back and he deserves to be listened to – not **** upon from a great height.

  • Roger Clague

    I was called racist for a remark I made about Muslims. Muslims are of all races. Romanians are much the same in skin tone as Farage. The word is now meaningless. It is used to say : I am more inclusive than you and I am not going to discuss the matter any more in case I lose the argument.

  • Muggy Dog

    During the same interview Farage was evidently open to a discussion about the nature of racism, asking rhetorically ‘What is racism?’ O’Brian’s response was ‘How can you say you’re not something if you don’t know what it is?’ In the face of such infantile platitudes, we were unlikely to learn very much at all. Quite why Nigel has felt the need to apologise today I don’t know. Humility, probably- a rare quality in a politician.

    • HookesLaw

      Of course Farage wants to redefine reacism – thats so he can be racist and get away with it.
      You succeed in pointing out what a really nasty piece of work Farage is. He has certainly attached himself to the tail of a very dangerous tiger.

      I am terrible aren’t I – daring to be so critical. How upseting for you all.
      But all Farage had to do was couch his arguments – such as they are in non inflamatory language. He does not because he knows those whose votes he is after do not want to listen to that.

      • Muggy Dog

        Look at you all threatened. It’s the eye of a child that fears a painted devil.

      • ButcombeMan

        You are not terrible, like LibLabCon & the MSM, you just do not comprehend why British people want secure, controlled borders and home rule. Want the freedom to decide who gets the benefits of this wonderful country, who stays and who goes.

        This tiny place cannot keep on taking economic migrants forever, without destroying that which many of them come for.

        This is obvious.

        • Colonel Mustard

          “This is obvious.”

          But sadly ignored in the pretence that it somehow doesn’t matter and won’t exacerbate all the other resource, infrastructure, law and order and funding challenges that the country faces.

  • Swiss Bob

    How is saying you’d prefer a German family to a group of Romanian men moving next door to you racist?

    • Nkaplan

      In fact what he said was even less controversial than that. O’Brien asked him if he’d have the same concern if a group of German children moved in. Far from ‘you know the difference’ being a racist response, I’d say it was pretty mild. I’d have be much ruder to O’Brien than that for asking such an idiotic question.

  • Lucy Sky Diamonds

    Between 2008-12 the Met arrested 98 Germans – and 27,775 Romanians! Despite the fact in much of that time period Romanians weren’t allowed free immigration to the UK!

    Make what you want from that.

    May Farage actually have a point?

    • Hello

      Firstly, you aren’t counting Germany correctly. You’ve taken only the Federal Republic figures, instead of the combined Germany, Federal Republic of Germany and Democratic Republic of Germany figures.

      So the correct German number is 2,421. Secondly, I expect that a lot of the Romanian figure is accounted for by illegal immigrants…being arrested…for being illegal immigrants…

      Lies, damns lies, and Ukip, I suppose.

      • Lucy Sky Diamonds

        What a load of rubbish. Romania are/were in the EU. There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant.

        • Hello

          I don’t think that will be necessary, you’ve already demonstrated your penchant for excitability and the impact it has on your ability to count.

          I’m sure that your other assumptions are equally flawed.

          • ButcombeMan


          • Aberrant_Apostrophe

            Resorting to ad hominem insults rather invalidates your points – if you had any. Why don’t you admit you have lost the argument?

            • Hello

              There is a difference between “ad hominem” and “fact based assertions”, my dear chap.

              That said, Lucy has changed his original post, so I can understand why my response seems a little odd.

              • Aberrant_Apostrophe

                I think questioning someones state of mind and mathematical ability counts as ‘ad hominem’, old bean.

                • Hello

                  No, I don’t think it does, because it…well…you know…it kind of relates to the actual argument…like…you know? I mean we are talking about figures here, so the ability to count, or not to lose count, or not to get so excited that you forget what to count…well…it kind of matters, doesn’t it? It was, after all, a specific reference to a piece of very relevant information that was skipped over by Lucy, darling.

        • Hello

          Working illegally…whatever…who cares…

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Well, we’ll see who cares when Call Me Dave’s head is mounted on a spike, 11.5 months from today.

      • SimonToo

        Hang on ! In 2008 the FDR and the DDR had long been reunited. Why on earth would the Met distinguish between the two in its records?

        And as for “German South-west Africa” …

        • Hello

          Some people probably still describe themselves as being from the GDR and FRG.

          • In2minds

            Ha ha! Like the 27,775 Romanians you have been caught!

      • Adam Carter

        Illegal immigrant.
        The clue is in the first word. I’ll help you a bit more, the first word was ‘illegal’.

    • Trofim

      Hang on, there’s something very fishy here. Is this from two centuries ago? Abyssinia!!? Belgian Congo?!!! This ain’t right. It’s a spoof.

      • Hello

        Maybe Ukippers always put themselves down as “Romanian” when they get arrested?

        • Adam Carter

          Woderful. Such an obviously ridiculous attemopt at ‘humour’ that shows that even you are now realising you started on the wrong side of this one.

      • Span Ows

        Nothing fishy: Abyssinia existed as such until 1975, many people probably still have passports if they moved to the UK back then; in some languages it is still known as that. Same for Belgian Congo (to 1960): why so hard to believe there is a few 54+ year old Congolese in the UK who may have been arrested in the last decade?

    • ButcombeMan

      Of course he has a point, he is essentially correct.

      Isabel would have been better getting into the detail you provided, that is what professional journalists should do, in preference to flying lightweight kites.

      You may also notice the Lithuanian figures.

      The real point is that the some of the eastern European countries have serious criminality, born out of their situation, post the socialism that telemachus loves so much.

      The UK is one of the more desirable places for Eastern European criminally inclined migrants to target. They all speak a bit of the language, sometimes surprisingly well (but not when being interviewed about a crime-of course-thus inflating the costs for MetPol). It will always be thus, That is why the UK of all places having complete open border for them was a mistake,

      Our politicians in LibLabCon, have let us down.Their panic at the UKIP rise is because in their hearts they know that.

    • HookesLaw

      Funny how complaining about Romanians is not a smear but calling out Farage is.
      In reality…
      Romanians and ATM crime?
      ‘Fullfact’ point out –
      ‘It can be traced back to DCI Paul Barnard, then head of the Dedicated Cheque and Plastic Crime Unit (DCPCU) – a police unit run in partnership with banks and financial services companies. DCI Barnard told ITV1’s ‘Fraud Squad’ programme that:
      “The fact is 92 per cent of all ATM fraud we see in this country is committed by Romanian nationals.”
      We spoke to the DCPCU hoping to find out more, but were told that DCI
      Barnard was no longer head of the unit, and that no further details were held on this particular claim.’
      ie its bogus.
      27000 ‘crimes’?
      ‘The data does not relate only to “serious” crimes, but covers all arrests on suspicion of any number of crimes. In fact, the figures separate out the most serious offences, such as murder, rape and other sexual offences, burglary, robbery and other violent offences. These accounted for under a fifth of all arrests, with the remaining 22,332 falling under the ‘other offences’ category.’

      — and over 5 years.
      —- and it refers to arrests not charges. Look at convictions and the pictoure is different, as I pointed out in another thread.
      ‘Romanians in the UK and the Manipulation of Statistics’
      ‘The Daily Mail claims that “For every 1000 Romanians in London, 183 are arrested”. As the number of Romanians arrested is 800, it is supposed that the total Romanian community in London is around 4,300 persons… In fact, there are more than 60,000 people.
      So, in reality, for every 1,000 Romanians in London, only 13 were arrested, which – according to the figures presented by Daily Mail (“26 Britons per 1000 are arrested in London”) – is half of the arrest rate for Britons.’

      Its pretty desperate of Farage to rely on the Mail don’t you think?
      ‘According to a recent statement of the Dedicated Cheque and Plastic Crime Unit in London: “The latest annual figures show that, in 2012, the top five countries for fraudulent activity on UK issued cards were USA, France, Luxembourg, Italy and Ireland”.’

      Farage is peddling one lie after another and you dupes are too thick to see it. But then you don’t want to do you.

      • HookesLaw

        And just to add
        ‘As mentioned in the presentation made by the Metropolitan Police, I have recently met representatives of the operation Nexus. The British
        officers reassured me that the proportion of crimes committed in London by Romanian nationals is similar to their proportion in London’s
        population. This confirms what the home secretary has recently made
        clear, that the level of crime by foreign national in the capital is in line with their representation in the population. ‘
        ‘As crime statistics show, in the last quarter the number of crimes
        committed by Romanian citizens in the UK has decreased by 20%.’

        Farage is a liar – peddling one dog whistle after another at a gullible public and of course the committed bigots are only too happy to be taken in.

        I am happy to be right wing – but activity like Farage’s makes me ashamed. He is pushing being ‘right wing’ into uber fascist territory. And those are the ones he is attracting.

        A vote for Farage is not only a wasted vote given his attendance track record – it is a vote for divisiveness and intolerance. It has nothing to do with economics or trade or parliament and increasingly nothing to do with the EU

      • ButcombeMan

        I suggest you re-read your source at Fullfact (though that organisation itself is of course suspect and need to be treated cautiously)

        It does not say that the claim about ATM crime is “bogus”.

        It points out that it was based on intelligence and would need more research

    • Fergus Pickering

      Well of course he’s got a point. How many of the arrested Romanians were actually Roma i.e. gyspies to you and me?

    • John Richmond

      I’m more worried about the two crimes committed by nationals from Antarctica. The tip of the iceberg, perhaps?

  • Ricky Strong

    They have used the word racist so many bloody times they have even forgotten what it means themselves.