Coffee House

How a Ukip victory could hasten the break-up of the UK

19 May 2014

11:48 AM

19 May 2014

11:48 AM

In a sense it could be the political version of the law of unintended consequences. There is Nigel Farage insisting that he is a British unionist, that he opposes Scottish nationalism and does not want to see Scottish independence. Yet success for Farage and Ukip in the Euro elections this week could possibly do more to hasten the break-up of the UK than almost anything else.

That is the implication of a startling new poll published in the Scotsman this morning. ICM found that almost one in five Scots were more likely to vote Yes in the independence referendum if Ukip does well this week.

A total of three in five of those asked said Ukip success would make no difference to their choice in the independence referendum and 14 per cent said they did not know. A total of eight per cent said it would make them more likely to vote No but 18 per cent said it would make them more likely to vote Yes.

This finding has to be taken alongside another key part of the poll which found that support for Ukip in Scotland is languishing at nine per cent, not enough to secure a single Euro seat north of the border.


So, as things stand Ukip is poised for dramatic success all over England but is heading for a big fat zero in Scotland.

If that is indeed the result of this week’s elections, then it will create a very stark contrast between Scotland and England. England will appear increasingly Eurosceptic while Scotland will seem much more Eurofriendly.

Just for a second, imagine how this looks from north of the border. To many Scots, such a result will make it look as it England is going one way – anti-European, anti-immigration, edging towards xenophobia and embracing a little-Englander mentality – while Scotland remains largely pro-European, pro-immigration and (and this is the crucial point) essentially different.

There is, obviously, much more to it than that. That is just an over-simplified stereotype. For instance, there are many Scots who are sceptical about the European Union but this is simply about the impression that success for Ukip in England will create in Scotland. It will increase the sense felt by many north of the border that Scotland is different, that it doesn’t share the same worries and anxieties as England.

Most importantly, though, it will also heighten the feeling that Ukip is not a British party at all, but an English nationalist movement which has little or no appeal in Scotland.

That is why one in five Scots will be more likely to vote Yes in September, not because they are necessarily more pro-European, but because they will feel a growing sense of separation between Scotland and England. Alex Salmond may not like Farage and his policies but it is unlikely that he will be doing anything other than rubbing his hands with glee this week as he prepares for the European elections this week.

Not only is the SNP poised to win half of all the seats in Scotland but, if Ukip fails to win any, it will play into the ‘we are different’ agenda he has been pushing for so long.

So all those planning to vote Ukip this week should perhaps be aware that, as well as voting for the UK to leave the EU, they may also be hastening the break-up of Britain – whether they want to or not.

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Show comments
  • Thomas Tidswell

    Just as Myners described the Co-Op as ungovernable and doomed, so is Scotland. Personally, the thought of Salmond having to go cap in hand to the Germans and being told to get real, raise taxes and spend less would make a “Yes” vote adequate pay for the 300 years of having to sub’ these cattle-stealers and, even, giving the ability to bankrupt our banking system in 2008.
    If Clegg thinks that his doomed little claque is the “Eurine” vote and UKIP the “You’re out” vote then we could let all the disenfranchised English vote in the Scottish Vote make a difference, too! Perhaps we could say, vote for UKIP if you want to give Alex Salmond a kick in the groin, or even two to three kicks.
    Oh, g’wan. Kick the bugger when he’s down. That’s the safest time to do it!
    Enjoy your gruel, Jock. It’ll be thin.

  • FrankS2

    Why are only Scots living in Scotland getting a vote on independence?

  • Redrose82

    Which is a good argument for voting UKIP. But of the two I would be more happy to be independent of the EU so I will be voting Conservative as I see them as the only remotely realistic chance of getting an IN/OUT referendum without which we will never be set free

  • Conway

    If the Scots want to go it alone that’s their affair. It should not affect the way the English vote.

  • Fiona Richardson

    If we can vote out then the Scots should have that choice also, the important thing is they do it for the right reasons like us.

  • foxoles

    ‘ … this is simply about the impression that success for Ukip in England will create in Scotland. It will increase the sense felt by many north of the border that Scotland is different, that it doesn’t share the same worries and anxieties as England.’

    You mean exactly like the impression that success for the SNP in Scotland has created in England? Don’t recall any articles agonising about that.

    Sauce for the goose, and all that …

  • Robert_Eve

    So yet another very good reason to vote UKIP if you live south of the border.

  • Dexter

    Yes, over-simplified stereotype…

  • In2minds

    ” while Scotland remains ….. pro-immigration”, that is so funny. I’ve worked in Scotland and the bigotry handed out to incomers like me was relentless.

  • Zool

    The EU & the Euro Crisis plus it’s agenda to push for federalism is causing the breakup just as its causing Spain & the Ukraine to breakup. We are now witnessing the start of the Balkanization of Europe, that is the people being reduced into smaller more manageable blocks that on their own cannot oppose the EU.

    • Michael Mckeown

      Except Germany.

  • Blakenburg

    Readers have more savvey than to accept this garbage. If there is to be a break-up, that is because the seeds were already sown by the establishment ilk of Conservative, Labour and Lib Dems. UKIP is trying to save the union, but is being ambushed by the media !

    • Keith D

      And by a fair sized chunk of its own membership to be fair.

  • Denis_Cooper

    “That is just an over-simplified stereotype.”

    You don’t say.

    Look, if you want to deter me from voting for UKIP at least come up with some decent arguments rather than whatever dross you find when you scrape the barrel.

  • Smithersjones2013

    This finding has to be taken alongside another key part of the poll
    which found that support for Ukip in Scotland is languishing at nine per

    So nigh on doubling your vote share (as UKIP is in Scotland) is ‘languishing’? If they double their vote share nationally they will undoubtedly win the election quite handsomely.

    Thats about as superficially puerile an observation by MacDonnell as reading anything into 18% of voters being more likely to vote for independence without additional information (such as they currently intend to vote no). There is little or no value in those who intend to vote yes being more likely to vote yes when ‘No’ is winning in the polls. Only those who intend to change their vote from No to Yes are relevant and how many of them are there? Oh wait a minute MacDonnell does not say……..

  • Adam Carter

    UKIP is not anti-immigration.
    UKIP is in favour of controlled immigration, i.e. it is anti- uncontrolled immigration.
    You political journalists know this full well.
    Since you know this then I accuse you of dishonesty when you say that UKIP is anti-immigration.

  • Whyshouldihavetoregister

    If the party were named EnglishIP, there might be a point lurking somewhere.

  • Thoughtful Ulsterman

    We have seen a recent poll surge in favour of the “no” side. Where did this come from? I think the recent mass increase in publicity for UKIP is a factor that many in the media just don’t want to admit.

    UKIP is the most credible pan-UK Unionist party that we have, with the only mainstream vision that has potential to even partially alleviate the foreign replacement of the British nation, and strongest argument there is as to why Salmond’s notion of independence is a farce. If the “no” campaign wanted to increase their poll lead, the sensible thing would be to increase UKIP involvement!

  • GenJackRipper

    Haha, I love seeing the MSM get scared. 🙂

  • Tom

    So lets assume a couple of years down the line The Scots are in the EU but the rest of the UK is not.

    Will the Scots suddenly find they have an immigration problem.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Who knows? The political plates are shifting that’s for sure. I don’t think any of the immature politicians that “govern” us can think far enough ahead to plan for what might happen in future. They are all short term merchants or novelty/gimmick/bribe peddlers who don’t know the meaning of facing up to hard facts or being honest. Cameron for example thinks more about giving billions in borrowed money to foreign countries with taxpayers and future generations picking up the tab, promoting gay marriage because he has a lot gay Conservative friends, kidnapped Nigerian schoolgirls and posing for selfies than he does about the future prospects for this country. Miliband is dreaming of recreating Mao’s China. Clegg is just being Clegg.

  • Raddiy

    If ever there was a reason to vote UKIP, then this is it, anything to hasten departure of the Scottish whingers sailing off towards their brave new world.

    Sadly the fact you quote the ICM poll, which always gives UKIP the lowest vote in all its polls, is probably not representative of the real UKIP support in Scotland, where all the other polls suggest they are likely to be in with a shout of at least one seat.

  • Michael Mckeown

    Well the Scottish nationalists obsession with the EU is so they can secure the free trade and movement with the rest of the UK that they currently enjoy as part of the UK, should the UK leave the EU there really is no great need for Scotand to be in the EU as the trade would be negligible compared to the trade with the UK.

  • Mazzzz

    Nice try, get lost, vote UKIP!

  • Kitty MLB

    Hamish dearest. This is all getting somewhat silly, do you not think, maybe?
    Of course UKIP will win, the EU elections, my kipper chums, who I am hugely
    fond of are about the EU and are very good at keeping them in check.
    Cameron has the somewhat mundane task of keeping a country running, boring
    things such as the economy, education etc and Labour as well as the Lib Dems are history in every sense. But to say the EU elections will encourage the break up of the union is very foolish. Scotland will stay. Besides fragrant Nicola is quite concerned
    about the fate of the SNP in these EU elections and the impact on their party.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    “A total of three in five of those asked said Ukip success would make no
    difference to their choice in the independence referendum and 14 per
    cent said they did not know. A total of eight per cent said it would
    make them more likely to vote No but 18 per cent said it would make them
    more likely to vote Yes.”


    So let’s review these polling results. A supermajority of 60% say UKIP would make no difference in their independence vote. That figure alone demonstrates that UKIP will have no significant impact on the referendum vote, lad.

    Another 14% said they didn’t know, meaning 3/4 of the referendum voters don’t know or don’t care about UKIP re this referendum. So basically, we can see statistically that UKIP has little impact on this referendum.

    Now, 18% did say that UKIP would make it more likely they vote Yes, but that same 18% would likely say the same thing about a bad bowl of porridge. The 18% is a small figure, in other words, and is best considered as the hardcore of the Yes vote, which will number at or approaching over twice that 18% number, no matter UKIP.

    Then we have the 8% who say UKIP makes it more likely they vote No, which means the net of the UKIP suasion appears to be that 10% are biased to a Yes vote because of UKIP. One in ten. About the same count that will show up with blue face paint that day, no doubt.

    So basically, those who say UKIP doesn’t affect their referendum vote outnumber those who claim it will make them vote Yes by a factor of over 4-to-1, and that’s as clear a dominance as public polling can show, if you actually understand public polling and how to interpret it. Your blogpost is fatuous and a statistical insult, lad.

    Are you Speccie kids all that ignorant and poorly educated that you are caught floundering with basic statistics, every time you touch them? It really is disgraceful that you constantly expose your innumeracy, kids. And it’s a constant with you.

  • Blindsideflanker

    This article seeks to stand logic on its head. If there is a reason for the break up of the UK it is our dalliance with the EU.

  • JonBW

    So English supporters of Scottish independence really should vote UKIP?

    This is the first pro-UKIP article I’ve seen this week!

    • starfish

      Not sure he meant that 😉

      But an excellent analysis certainty no worse than the bubble muppets

  • Caps Lock

    This is a disgusting article. If by me voting for UKIP makes the Scots want to break the union with England then so be it. But it is their doing and not mine.

  • Lady Magdalene

    There are several people responsible for the possible break up of the UK.
    1. Tony Blair – and his warped devolution settlement. He was warned that devolution would not stop the drive towards separation and did it anyway.
    2. Alex Salmond – for running rings around Scottish Labour.
    3. David Cameron – for pushing the Referendum button; giving Salmond concessions like allowing 16 yr old kids to vote and for failing to run a decent campaign for the union.
    None of this is UKIP’s fault. We were the first party to say that the UK needs to move towards a federal union, so that all the member states have a Parliament and control over their own affairs.
    According to the Speccie and the rest of The Establishment, EVERY problem in the UK seems to be the fault of UKIP….. and nothing to do with the idiots in LibLabCON.
    We must be absolutely marvellous to have achieved no such when we have never been elected to Government.

  • The_Missing_Think

    “embracing a little-Englander mentality – while Scotland remains largely pro-European, pro-immigration and (and this is the crucial point) essentially different.”

    But obviously, not essentially different as say… umh… erh… Germans and Roma are essentially different?

    Of course not, that would be something essentially different again?

    Oh boy… the politics of the sandpit.

  • Wessex Man

    My word, the bashing of Ukip from all political sides continues unabated! Now we are being warned that should UKip do well in the Euro Elections it will make Scotland more likely to vote to leave the Uk.

    There was an idiot BBC Journalist on the Morning Show R5, this morning saying that if UKip doesn’t win the Euro Elections outright Farage will be judged a complete failure, you couldn’t make it up, except that it frequently is by the other political parties, the media and the BBC.

    David Cameron and the Conservative and Unionist Party are making far more of a fuss about keeping Scotland in the Union but I’ve never seen you mention the fact!

    It will come as a surprise to you and many others that quite a lot of UKip members, including myself, look forward in sweet anticipation for a Yes vote in the Independence Referendum and Scotland leaving the United Kingdom.

    The difference is that in my party, Nigel Farage, smiles when we say that, shakes his head and doesn’t try to Whip us into line as the other political parrty leaders do to their members.

    • Keith D

      Nigel pitches that just right. He knows you’re wrong, and smiles while thinking, I can afford to smile about this, no matter how that goes, UKIP is blameless and offered the ideal way forward.

  • Jez

    Is it true that UKIP topping the polls recently has awoken Godzilla?

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes, and Godzilla is a conservative. Most don’t know that. Over the years, Hollywood has tried to turn him into a metrosexual progressive victim, but let’s just keep it simple and let Godzilla be Godzilla, a great beast that knows what he is, and you idiot humans shouldn’t have built Tokyo there anyway.

  • ScaryBiscuits

    The UKIP vote is this week; the Scottish referendum is in September. I can see how Hamish might think the former will influence the latter but I doubt it. Scots have a big decision in front of them. They may choose Braveheart passion over reason and good luck to them.

    I’m not Scottish but Hamish’s vision of a Scotland less-racist than England and more pro-EU isn’t one that bears comparison with the facts, unless he’s just talking about the politico-media elite.

  • ButcombeMan

    A rather pointless article, many people in England are sick of the whingeing Scots and their anti English, contrived racism,

    Worry about what they think about my vote will not be foremost in my mind come Thursday.

    A Scotland that votes Yes will condemn itself to years of penury, capital flight and jobs flight.

    I will not be worrying about that either.

    • Henry Hooper

      Shows some evidence of this anti-Englishness you speak about

      As someone with an English background myself….your ignorance shows.

      For example, six SNP MSP’s are English

      • Wessex Man

        and your point is?

        • Henry Hooper

          The point?…there’s nothing I detest more than people like me being accused of being anti-English….it is astonishingly so far from the reality that for our mainstream media to spin, ethnicity, and religion into the equation in order to stir animosity it makes my blood curdle.
          I’ve many friends all living here, almost all Yes supporting that just happen to be English.
          Do you still not get the point?…or are you just not the sharpest knife in the drawer?

          • Raddiy

            Perhaps you should remove the Amazon rain forest of timber from you eye, that seems to be blurring your vision with regard to Anti-English attacks in Scotland.


            As somebody who has been a weekly visitor travelling around Scotland for many, many years, anybody who can’t see what is happening underneath their noses is either in denial, or supports what is going on. Which are you?

            • Henry Hooper

              I must be in denial and all my other yes supporting English friends too.

            • Henry Hooper

              Its the Daily Record doh…how they detest the Natz.

              The relentlessly negative Anti-Yes campaign has realised now that as they’ve nothing to propose, offer, commit, promise, i.e. they’ve nothing to debate can only play the man (The Weirs, Blair Jenkins, Salmond, every other Yes supporter) rather than the policy as they have none..they only do criticism. Their hatred knows no bounds.

              The tact of the Anti-Yes campaign currently is to de-legitimise the referendum via blatant dishonest smears on its funding, outright scare-mongering (particularly our pensioners/ elderly) even though the “uncertainties” been repeatedly shot down in flames. the latest now has a focus on religion and ethnics, particularly those with an English origin.
              Accusations of anti-Englishness has got to be one of the worst aspects of the Anti-Yes campaign…stirring animosity where it doesn’t exist and having people like yourself and the media believe that is what is happening …it just further emphasises there is no union..its all mud slinging and saying / doing anything and everything to bring the Yes campaign into disrepute and by doing so the referendum and Yes vote itself invalid.
              I am well and truly disgusted by all the lies twists and distortions of the Anti-Yes campaign all to gain a win in September… won’t be a win at all given the tactics at play….but this anti-English accusations really are scraping the bottom of the barrel…..and all because Scots want representative democracy
              Yes is coming sooner or later..accept it

  • Hello

    Hasten? So, it is a foregone conclusion then?

  • Darnell Jackson

    I have yet to see a single journalist anywhere give a solitary positive reason to vote UKIP

    How can they all be so out of step?

    • Colonel Mustard

      Au contraire, I think they are all in step!

      • Darnell Jackson

        Point taken.

    • Henry Hooper

      Its just like 1933 all over again…..
      The English population, so hacked off with their democratically elected representatives, decide to vote for anti-establishment charismatic populist that dictates that its everyone else’s fault…whether its the taffs, jocks, muslims, Romanians, homosexuals, or Europeans and everyone falls for it hook, line and sinker. Wake Up England, Wake Up!
      If there is one thing and one thing alone that emphasise the divergence of Scotland and rUK its the regard that such a loony is held, by first the media, our politicians and now the general UK public.
      Scotland will gain its independence sooner or inevitable when the UK public can vote for parties like UKIP

      • Wessex Man

        and I wish you well in your campaign for independence and will celebrate with may people here in England, go for it boyo!

      • Keith D

        How can you possibly denigrate people for voting UKIP when the entire fabric of their society has been deliberately destroyed by the Westminster cabal ?: Its time for a change and UKIP is the only show in town. If it serves as a means to reclaim our lost democracy then I’m all for it.

        You’re voting Yes, aren’t you?
        So tell me how pro establishment that act is then?
        Double standards.

        • Henry Hooper

          Lots of folk try to associate the SNP with UKIP as they are both anti-Westminster establishment….. they both use a few similar arguments except UKIP are;
          – Isolationist,
          – Racist
          – Anti-Europe and they have
          – No other policies except those of ….”its everyone else’s fault.”
          If you have to stoop so low as to vote UKIP to change then I would suggest you live in a very corrupt country why not change it by voting for other anti-establishment, e.g. Greens, that’s what I would do and that what I will do upon independence

          • Keith D

            Dear o dear. You also live in that country, or has Salmond won his referendum already?
            UKIP are not racist although some of its membership certainly are unfortunately. Unique in that? No. Uniquely targeted for it? You betcha , the bubble is scared..
            Anti Europe, yes, therefore pro democracy.
            Isolationist? Not intending on isolating the northern portion of our island thanks.

            I would consider a vote for any the three stooges a betrayal of my kids futures, so will not accept your description of a UKIP vote as stooping low. Its got many faults but better than any of these abominations.
            You havent bothered reading their manifesto have you?..

            Thought not.

    • Wessex Man

      there’s been plenty especially in the Regional Press not controlled by Westminster.

      • HookesLaw

        Laughable. Press controlled by Westminster.
        You actually believe all your ranting rubbish don’t you. What a berk.

      • Darnell Jackson

        I live in Barnsley East which is an absolute labour stronghold, third safest seat in the country I believe.
        All of the local / regional press trumpet labour through and through, the letters page of the Barnsley Chronicle is a labour supporters back slapping club.
        Of course this is probably not the case across the whole of the UK.

        • Alexsandr

          lets see how they vote in private, eh?

    • Raddiy

      ” I have yet to see a single journalist anywhere give a solitary positive reason to vote UKIP”

      They would have their money stopped if they did!!

  • HookesLaw

    UKIP are essensially and English Nationalist Party. They hate the Scots like they hate everyone else.

    • Sapporo

      I see the anti-UKIP troll has finally got out of bed.

      • HookesLaw

        Back from taking the dog for a walk.
        None of which changes the truth in what I say or your desire to ignore it.

        What a pity for you that some people do not agree with UKIP. What a pity that some see through the UKIP lies. What a shame that your coffee house love-in with all the other narrow minded ranters gets interrupted.

        • helicoil

          Your rant above is pretty narrow minded, full of sweeping generalisations. Probably better if you toddle off back to your paedo supporting perverts if you’re not ready for a grownup conversation.
          num-nums ready hooky.

          • HookesLaw

            There is nothing narrow minded about pointing out that farage is peddling a big lie.
            Leaving the EU for the EEA would make no difference to us. we would be in the single market (which we would need for trade and employment and inward investment) and we would still be subject to free movement of labour and pay into EU regional funds. All just like Norway.
            Norway is in Schengen.
            And for this minimal change you would let in Europhile labour.

            To leave totally and expect to be able to negotiate a different agreement is silly and totally wishful thinking. To leave totally and think that any agreement would not force us into joining Schengen and not have other EU strings attached is again wishful thinking.
            To leave totally and think that it would not affect jobs and inward investment is wishful thinking.
            Why should all the EU countries watch one of its biggest members leave and pat it on the back with a deal thats better than the one they are living by?

            So it is in fact a lie.
            The truth is that its you nutjobs who are living in fantasy land. And the more of you come out from under your stones the more we see that Farage is playing trhe race card. And thats just the start – the genie unleashed will spread its intolerant net ever wider.

            • Darnell Jackson

              We do not require membership of the single market, a simple free trade agreement is all that we need.

            • Alexsandr

              the EU countries would do a deal cos we are one of the biggest export countries for the euro zone. We don’t need the EU, the EEA etc. Or are you frit?

              • HookesLaw

                The EU can manage without a trade deal with us – but in any event to pretend that the EU would fall over itself to offer a generous deal if we walked out is wishful thinking. The issue would be a great unknown. And the downside risk enormous. And for what?

                And of course in any event the Eurozone is going to draw closer and we will need to negotiate a new position and we will have a referendum.. But not if we elect a Europhile labour govt.

                Your hysteria knows no bounds. What a saddo.

                • Alexsandr

                  my only hysteria is hysterical laughing at your inaccurate un-researched trolling.
                  If you are so keen on living in a euro superstate, why not just b0g off and live in Brussels.

            • Wessex Man

              You have a wondefrul way with words Hooky babe, the fact that they are mostly lies has never stopped you from uttering them, I give to others here the words of the last great Conservative to bless Downing Street.

              “If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.”

              Winston Churchill The House of Commons May 1th 1953.

              What a shame that the modern Tory party would not be recognised by him as a conservative party!

              • HookesLaw

                Farage is the one peddling a big lie.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  He’s paying you, Farage is. That’s the only possible explanation for you trolling conservatives as you are.

            • fubarroso

              Applying to re-join EFTA and EEA (for an interim period) is the way by which we get uninterrupted access to the single market and continued inward investment by companies wishing to do business with the EU member states. Yes it will mean continuing with freedom of movement for an interim period, but that is better than forever! Yes it will mean paying in to the EU coffers, but nothing like the amount we presently pay. What we get shot of are the CAP and the CFP and all the anti-democratic political integration ,USE nonsense, which is the reason UKIP exists.

              No it doesn’t mean we get government by fax, because most EU law relating to trade is regurgitated by the EU from trading standards issued by superior international bodies such as ISO, WTO, CEN etc. EFTA/EEA members, such as Norway, have individual seats at the top tables of all of these bodies while the UK currently has to make do with 1/28th of a voice as our place is taken by an EU bureaucrat with no reason to represent the UK’s interests over those of other member states.

              Also of course, once outside of the EU their laws need only be applied to companies that trade with the EU member states. Which is about 10% of companies if I recall correctly. The other 90% of companies, those exporting to other foreign markets and those producing for the home market will no longer be hamstrung by EU law. They will have to continue to abide with the standards of markets they do export to, but that is a far lesser burden.

            • rick hamilton

              Listen, ranting nutjob. It’s not about trade. It’s about a profoundly undemocratic, wasteful and arrogant group of unelected ‘elites’ – who will not listen to us and whom we can’t get rid of – deciding most of the laws that control our lives. If you are prepared to give up a democracy that has taken 800 years to develop for the sake of a customs union then it is you who is the nutjpb. Trade deals are negotiable and if anyone from the USA to Korea can have an acceptable trade deal with the EU why can’t we?

        • Sapporo

          More like feeding the ducks.

        • Darnell Jackson

          I can picture you walking the dog and muttering to yourself

          • HookesLaw

            Can you? Your very sad. I imagine I would get more sense out of the dog than a Kipper. In fact I would get more sense out of a kipper than a Kipper.

            There, did you like that one?
            Why not worry more ablout the perceptioomn that UKIP is a racist mined intolerant English Nationalist Party.

            • Alexsandr

              I worry about the great tory party being taken over by leftie nutters. as a brand they are finished.

            • Darnell Jackson

              You seem to have typed this in a rush.
              Quite amusing though.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            I picture that nutter kicking the dog.

      • Wessex Man

        and as usual is spouting his worn out propaganda, what a sad fella!

    • NotYouNotSure

      The UK in UKIP should give you a clue what it stands for.

  • A_Libertarian_Rebel

    So, in summary, the SNP independence campaign, predicated and increasingly reliant on anti-English xenophobia, will find it “offensive” if what it wrongly assumes to be anti-European xenophobia brings UKIP success in England.

    Got it.

    • Colin Rullkotter

      The article doesn’t state or imply that “the SNP independence campaign” would be offended by UKIP success in England. It doesn’t even use the word “offensive”, which for some reason you’ve put in quotation marks.

      • HookesLaw

        Its a good example of shooting the messenger. A good example of blinkered bigotry. Rightly or wrongly (I think rightly) UKIP are perceived as an English Nationalist Party and a pretty intolerant one at that. Kippers refuse to answer or admit to the charge.
        I see Farage has again been accused of the N-word. I see no reason why Sked should lie – he would be open to slander.

        • Sapporo

          Aaah….perceptions! You mean manipulated opinion. Again, it is the useful idiots in the Media doing the dirty work of the political establishment.

          • Moderator

            It is not perception, it is reality. UKIP is the English Nationalist party. It has very little support outside of England – they lose their deposits in Scotland.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Who are you (paid to be) supporting, lad?

              • dado_trunking

                The only one paid to produce tripe on these blogs appears to be you, lad. I mean, look at the tripe you have typed on this thread alone (!)

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Have you and all your sockpuppets returned to do some more trolling, lad?

            • Kitty MLB

              Rather like the SNP would get very little support outside Scotland. A question which might also be asked of UKIP. If
              they both achieve their goals ( considering the names on the tin) does that mean the end for them.. game over.

              • Moderator

                One would assume that the SNP would breakup quite quickly in an independent Scotland given that they are a coalition of disparate political views with one shared goal. One does forecast a resurgence in centre-right parties given their complete absence due to the Scottish Tories just being an outreach wing of the English partei.

          • HookesLaw

            No – its the direct words spoken by kipper apologists and members and spokesmen. They are not invented. They are being reported. It they were not said they would not be reported.

            Every kipper who has come on here has reinforced the perception that anybody from Scotland who reads this blog might have.
            UKIP is intolerant. UKIP hates Scotland as much as they hate all the other countris in the world. (Posibly they do not hate Scotland as much as Ukraine which apparently wants to join the EU.)

            By extension SNP supporters must be hoping that this anti Scots perception will brush off on to the rest of the English.

        • Wessex Man


          • HookesLaw

            oohhh…. shouty shouty.

            Nick Martin does not speak for me. He is a crass idiot. Indeed he looks prime kipper material.

    • Jean de Valette

      In one.

  • Pilar Carolina Mendez

    This, were it to be true, would only encourage me to vote UKIP. No one ever gave the English a vote on whether we want Scotland.

    • Colin Rullkotter

      People in England are free to elect a party offering such a vote if they want. Unlike in Scotland, they’ve chosen not to do so.

      • Wessex Man

        That’s alright, quite happy to let you vote for independence, you are going to arn’t you please pretty please!

    • you_kid

      The richness of your multi-culti moroic servings are second to none. Curiously it is absolutely dumbfounding to note that you had no say when India or Ireland left either …

      • the viceroy’s gin

        You are perpetually dumbfounded, lad. That is, you are found dumb, as are all your sockpuppets.

        • you_kid

          What does your sockpuppet Meniscus Chuzzlewitz think? Oh how we are all surprised …

          • the viceroy’s gin

            How’s the goat, by the way?

    • Max Permissible

      Your name doesn’t sound English, in fact it sounds distinctly… Continental. How are you able to vote in our elections, never mind vote UKIP?

      • Hellano

        Sounds like YOU should have/would have/did vote UKIP.

  • Sapporo

    Aah….just another ‘politics of fear’ article from the Media. What next? Voting UKIP will cause aliens to invade. Nigel Farage eats babies.

    • Henry Hooper

      you don’t like a realistic assessment so just criticise it anyway

      • Wessex Man

        I would have thought that you were preying for a UKip landslide on Thursday if the content of the article iscorrect.

        • Henry Hooper

          Nope. I would never support that type of shallow populist racist scum, whatever the knock-on effect.
          A fair deal for all would be my ideal….. I’ve just given up on the UK ability or even want to deliver it.
          I’m the forced archetypal non-SNP voting Independence supporter that detests nationalism of the flag waving, imperialist, “pushing above our weight” type so common on the rest of our island.

          • Michael Mckeown

            You detest flag waiving yet sport a flag as an avatar?

            • Max Permissible

              Yes, but he’s not “waiving” [sic] it.

              • Vehmgericht

                Does he have a “waver”, do you think? Oops! I meant “wafer”.

            • Henry Hooper

              its meant I think to signify the end of the British Empire….it’s not exactly flag “waving”..more of a statement
              You might not find it palatable and even offensive if you’re a deluded British Nationalist.
              However, like every empire before it, the British empire is in its death throes…like those it couldn’t adapt to the changing environment it found itself in.
              By collusion to preclude the 2nd question in the referendum by allowing Scots what their clear preference was back in 2012 for fundamentally important new powers in the form of Devo-Max they have made independence inevitable. Salmond again played a blinder and our representatives in Westminster through sheer arrogance fell for it all supported then as now by our compliant unchallenging mainstream media….oh the stupidty of it all
              You would think that after the loss of American and Indian colonies Westminster would have learnt lessons…but alaswhat will be reaped will reflect what has been sown…… and they pay for it with what is still one of the best looking flags in the world.
              It is as galling to me as it is to you……. the difference is only that I have accepted it and you probably have not and will not.
              Scotland is leaving the union flag…… the blue will flock to the Yes sooner or later – I dare say Westminster have lost their opportunity to keep the country together…that’s what my avatar is meant to signify

              • Michael Mckeown

                What is it with you lot and this empire that ended before most of the population was born? Independence is not inevitable in fact its not even likely and the SNP being in office forever and a day is I’m afraid just a nationalists wet dream so given all poling to date suggests a resounding no vote and given the SNP would be in there 3rd term if they win the next election its reasonable to assert that having lost the independence referendum the SNP will implode as its already a pressure cooker so when the inevitable happens who is it exactly that will be arranging the next referendum?

                • Henry Hooper

                  Dream on…independence is coming…sooner or later.
                  The vast majority of Scots understand that only the SNP have Scots and Scotland as their #1 priority..the other parties don’t and never will.
                  After a No, the SNP will have overall majority again as it is only them that will attempt to protect us from the extremes of Westminster…and CyberBritZ like you, given you’ve been on the case now for years should be well aware of the situation or are your fingers still in your ears.

                • Michael Mckeown

                  For someone that claims he is a “non-SNP voting Independence supporter that detests nationalism of the flag waving” you sure defend the SNP like the rest of the sepratists, lets do the simple test then we will know if your liying or not:

                  Was Alex Salmond wrong to spend £54.000 on a trip to the USA then refuse to publish the details of what he spend the 54 thousand on?

                • Henry Hooper

                  I defend Independence for Scotland Michael, that and that alone, If I have the knowledge I will defend anyone that I consider to be slighted, even politicians…. my vote will be going to the greens incidentally 🙂
                  As for AS…he still spent a lot less than his predecessor McConnell, but did a lot more selling Scotland….Crikey I paid £374 for one night in a cheap hotel in Aberdeen last week! and £221 for a one way train ticket to London the week before… all easily mounts up

                • Michael Mckeown

                  Point proved, no matter what you’ll defend and deflect for the dear leader so you are simply a cybernat posing as a “non-SNP voting Independence supporter”.

                • Inverted Meniscus

                  So answer came there none.

                • Vehmgericht

                  I wouldn’t call £374 for a night “cheap”, Henry. And £221 for a one way train ticket to Aberdeen? My God, you could have flown for about half that, you mad spendthrift you!

              • Conway

                You do realise that the British Empire is no more? It’s been gone a long time.

                • Henry Hooper

                  Yes, but you wouldn’t think so given all the British nationalism, British jingoism and associated nonsense such as MBE’s, CBE’s and OBE’…in the words of Billy Bragg…”that’s doesn’t sound too good to me”

      • belarusi

        So – it’s vote UKIP then.
        I wasn’t convinced until now but….

    • John Dalton

      Agree wholeheartedly. Not only is this article pretty pointless, it’s also another transparent piece of anti-UKIP propaganda: vote UKIP and the UK will be destroyed. Come off it.

      If Scotland want to go let them. I’ll be quite happy to see England being England and free from the curse of all Scotland’s dour leftie Labour MPs! And the way Farage was treated up there disgusted me.

      • HookesLaw

        What a hoot. You describe the post as propaganda (when it is only repeating poll findings) and then you embark on a diatribe which totally justifies the point.
        Poor Farage – he plays the race card and gets an egg thrown at him. He preaches intolerance what does he expect to get back in return?

        • Wessex Man

          what a lying toad you are Hooky babe, are you going to tell the truth just once in your miserable life, for example you are a member of a Political Party that will not allow any view other than the continuation of the Union with Scotland given more powers as a bribe to remain.

          Your cont zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

          • HookesLaw

            You are totally bonkers and getting worse day by day. I am not a member of any political party. I do vote Conservative, not least because I do not want to see a Europhile Labour govt in power.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …suggest you not split the UKIP vote then, lad.

        • GenJackRipper

          How very tolerant to an egg at someone…

    • starfish


      Voting UKIP will cause the
      Seas to rise
      Plagues of locusts
      Death of first born
      Moon to fall
      Fall in house prices
      Rise in house prices (no need for consistency
      Increase in suicide rates
      Crime increase
      End of the monarchy
      Lights to go out

      Seen some of those in the daily wail already…

      • Niko

        Take it easy Christ

      • Kitty MLB

        And no one will vote for any party without being fully informed
        regarding what they would do with the economy, welfare, education,
        law and order etc etc. Riding the waves of discontent could leave you
        stranded on a desert island otherwise.
        Lovely Nigel who I like by the way, needs to be more then the anti everything party and say what they are for besides leaving the EU,
        which is obvious.

        • Raddiy

          C’mon KItty you are better than that, and I would be surprised if you are unaware of other UKIP core policies. The fact that the press don’t want to talk about them is their problem not ours.

          1. Scrap the Overseas Aid Budget and restrict aid to disaster relief only.

          2. Scrap the whole Green agenda and repeal the 2008 Climate Change Act. Focus on exploiting our natural energy resources to ensure energy security, and energy pricing that is not artificially raised by Green taxes imposed by the government for domestic and industrial customers.

          3. A parliament for England in a fully federal system, if Scotland doesn’t bu**er off.

          4. An expansion of Grammar schools to once again give real opportunities for bright working class kids to reach their full potential.

          I could go on Kitty, but you are perfectly capable of looking for yourself, and anyway an outline manifesto will be available shortly after the Euros, whether the press will want to talk about it, or continue on their vendetta is up to them, but the public will hear about it through our campaigning, and that is what counts.

          • roger

            Excellent. Well said and all vote winners if the conservatives would only embrace them.

          • Adam Carter

            And a flat tax, which is a great idea. Under flat tax those with high income still pay more than those with low income, but at the same percentage rate on income after the tax free allowance. So the rich still pay at least their fair share. But everybody then has the same interests: efficient public spending with tax rates low, instead of forcing money off some to give it to others.

            • Adam Carter

              And I think UKIP are making a tactical error by allowing too much focus on immigration and next to no coverage of the rest of their policies.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                It’s the LibLabCon cabal who are focusing on “immigration”, as it’s that which allows them to shriek “waaaaaaycist”. Absent that shrieking, there’d be a full discussion about the EUSSR, which obviously Chicken Dave doesn’t want, nor do the other bubble numpties. They’d rather shriek “waaaaaaaycist”.

                • Aberrant_Apostrophe

                  It’s curious that LibLabCon are currently rapidly back-pedalling – or at least soft-pedalling – on the ‘racist’ card. Is it because someone has pointed out the inconvenient truth that any party that advocates restricting immigration, for any reason, by definition discriminates against foreigners? And that, folks, is ‘racism’ in anyone’s book, even if it is indirect discrimination. Therefore, the Tories are racist, Labour are racists and even the LibDems are racist. I think that leaves the Greens, but they have enough problems of their own making to worry about immigration.

            • Andy

              I agree. A Flat Tax is a great idea, and the politicians and the Fascist Left would loath it. It is really immoral voting to impose taxes on others that you yourself don’t pay. That is the problem with graduated tax rates. As you say everyone would have the same interest in taxes and spending.

          • roger

            I don’t like your attack on ‘green’ ideas. Green is about personal and local ideas, not about taxes or carbon credits ( a total bankers scam). One can be UKIP and Green.

            • Raddiy

              It’s not my attack on ‘green’ ideas, it is a simple reality that we cannot maintain a core industrial capacity if we price our industries out of the market. In the last couple of years we have lost both of our alluminium smelters in Northumberland and Anglesey, as both were forced out of business by a combination of ‘Green’ legislation and taxes.

              Your ‘green’ idea may be of a bucolic lifestyle, unfortunately it will neither pay the bills, keep the lights on, or keep people in work, and it

        • Colonel Mustard

          “Lovely Nigel who I like by the way, needs to be more then the anti everything party”

          Not really. With all three main parties spinning and lying about what they have done/are doing/will do the main requirement is for a clear message of rejection to reach them. The only viable way to do that is to vote UKIP.

          The vendetta against Farage and the arrogance and bluster of all three demonstrates that they have not got this message yet or think it will go away and that they can get back to business as usual.

      • CharlietheChump

        You forgot collapse of the NHS and a staggering increase in FGM

      • Smithersjones2013

        Actually what its caused is a plague of festering boils (e.g. Hookeslaw, Telemachus, Massie, Payne, Macdonnell etc. etc.)

      • NotYouNotSure

        You forget to add the most catastrophic event in the cosmos of all time: the end of David Cameron (well at least for the likes of Hookeslaw, The Spectator, Telegraph etc.)

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Yet if you substitute the word ‘Labour’ for UKIP that all sounds pretty feasible.