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German or Romanian neighbour – which would you choose?

19 May 2014

5:53 PM

19 May 2014

5:53 PM

I would rather live next door to a German than a Romanian. I thought I’d just
make that clear. I don’t mean I’d rather live next door to SS Obergruppenfuhrer Reinhard Heydrich than the humorously surreal dramatist Eugène Ionesco. I mean, in general, on average, given what I know about the people from both countries who have come here to live.

Not all of them, obviously. Just as a generality, if you were to offer me the choice, without telling me any more about the respective merits of the people concerned, just here’s your choice, Rod – Germans or Romanians. I may be wrong, but I suspect most people in this country, if offered the same choice, would choose likewise.

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Show comments
  • Guest

    Anyone else seen Lilly Roma on Studio66? Wouldn’t mind living next door to her.

  • Matt

    Anyone seen Liily Roma on Studio66? That’s one Romanian I wouldn’t mind living next door to.

  • Kate Em

    Romanians are lovely people,
    Romanian or Hungarian or Slovakian etc. Gypsies (what’s wrong with the name Gypsy? I’d much rather be called a Gypsy than a Roma – it has some flavour to it, some senes of adventure and magic…) are a totally different story.
    I think the most racist thing we do is to forget about their culture and mentality. we see them through our European-centre-of-the-world lens and they are – Indian. they still are. they live in a caste system, they marry their daughters at 13 and they have a totally different moral code altogether. especially the poor Gypsies who are thoroughly despised by the rich ones…

  • sasboy

    Romanian.

  • mattrp

    As far as I can see, the UKIP supporters’ definition of racism is “having irrational hatred of all other races”. From this it follows:

    – calling someone a racist is an outrageous slur;
    – if your issue is with a nationality rather than an ethnic group, you are not racist;
    – if you do not hate *all* other races, you are not racist;
    – if your feelings are justified (eg Romanians really do have criminal tendencies), you are not racist;
    – if you do not openly express your hatred, you are not racist.

    This might explain why UKIP supporters are outraged and bewildered when people think Farage’s views on Romanians are racist.

  • TonyB58

    Some Romanians live next to me and there are no problems. Of course when the media speak of “Romanians” they really mean the Roma. I have never lived next to a Roma family so I cannot comment on the experience although from my observations while travelling in Ukraine and having regularly walked past the groups of Roma hanging around Park Lane I suspect it could be “challenging”.

  • CraigStrachan

    Who would you rather have sit next to you on the beach, though?

  • Bill_der_Berg

    I would hate to live next door to James O’Brien. He would lurking on the other side of the garden wall, hoping to hear somebody to use the word ‘niggardly’.

  • allymax bruce

    Rod, are you afraid the Romanian would steal your ‘stuff’; while the German wouldn’t? You live next door to us Scots; you’ve managed to find a common agreement with your Scots neighbours; regardless of our Nationality (Massie!).
    Like, you steal our oil, gas, taxes, and we steal your sheep. Fair deal?
    Time for you to put that Burkha on again, Rod; that was the funniest thing ever. That should definitely exclude you from the BBC job. But only ‘blank-personalities’ want to work for the BBC.

  • Mr Creosote

    The Romanian is likely to have a sense of humour.

  • Banjo12

    Just to be clear, is Romanian a euphemism for Gypsy?

    • Shakassoc

      No. Gypsy is a euphemism for Romanian.

  • Dacus

    It looks that UKIP and the Tories deliberately mislead the public by claiming that Eastern Europeans are coming to the UK for benefits and not to work.
    The link that I mentioned before http://tinyurl.com/nvmowwu clearly shows that people from Western Europe are far more benefit recipients than Eastern Europeans, except Poland which is on the top.

    In the world “scroungers” list, R of Ireland is on 6th place, Portugal on 9th, Slovakia ranked 14 is just ahead of the Netherland (15) and France(16). Germany is 26 above Spain (true).
    Romania and Bulgaria? At the bottom of the list ranked 46 and 101.
    So much for the” indisciplined rabble from Eastern Europe” versus the hard working Germans, French and Dutch. Even Spaniards are better than Germans!

    • LucieCabrol

      Thats because they havent had enough practice yet…give them time….also, the law for claiming has been tightened up so it will be harder for them to startoff….

  • justejudexultionis

    DEUTSCH – unter allen Umständen!

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    The difference between them would be about £50k pa of declared income.

    • Dacus

      Where is your evidence of Eastern Europeans being tax fraudsters but NOT Germans ????

  • Bonkim

    This discussion misses the point – Germans are more disciplined, tidier, more polite, and better behaved. Who wants to live next to the indisciplined rabble from Eastern Europe or some of the less developed countries inhabited by alien cultures? Racist? Certainly not – in a free society we all have choices.

    • Dacus

      It looks that German benefit scroungers is still a taboo subject.

      • Bonkim

        If a German has to come to Britain for claiming benefits – he must be mad or is a returning Brit.

        • Dacus

          Far more Germans are living on benefits in the UK than Spaniards.

          • Bonkim

            May be they feel more at home here.

    • Llamamum

      Get a dictionary. Look up ‘racist’. You’re illiterate.
      Being able to choose has nothing to do with being racist.
      For fuck’s sake try to learn basic English before you complain about other cultures.

      • Bonkim

        ?????!!!!! Calling you an idiot would be an understatement.

  • Dacus

    Difference between Romanians and a Germans?
    A German is far most likely to be a benefit “scrounger” that a Romanian. The following DWP table demonstrates it:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/
    Data for 2013 (the latest available) rearranged in descending order show that Germany is far ahead Romania in term of receiving benefits: 4590 versus 1740. The latest census gave about 274000 Germans living in UK while the number of number of Romanians in UK, is estimated at 120000. In plain English the Germans are twice as much as Romanians. The ratio of German population versus Romanian population is approximately 2.2 yet the ration of benefit recipients is 2.74.
    In terms of benefit claimants registered by the DWP, 1 out of 60 Germans is on benefits versus only 1 out of 69 Romanians. In terms of Job Seeker Allowance (JSA), the difference is even greater: 1 out of 158 Germans is getting JSA versus 1 out 197 Romanians.
    The DWP statistics shows that Romanians are more hardworking and less likely to get benefits than Germans.
    Farage’s German neighbours are more likely to be benefit scroungers than Romanians.

    • justejudexultionis

      Yes, but the Germans share our culture and the Romanians do not.

      • Dacus

        You must be joking, eh? What culture Germans share with Britain that Romanians do not share wit the UK and Germany???? Clear fact based evidence, please.

    • Llamamum

      Bigotry is bigotry.

  • Roberto Machado

    I would rather live next door to Romanians that UKIP/BNP/Conservative/Chav/British Front thugs. I wouldn’t care if they are German or Romanian.

    • Max07

      Hmmm. So you don’t like Tories and you don’t like ‘chavs’. Can’t help thinking you might be happier somewhere else.

      • Roberto Machado

        I thought the British understood Irony. You have made the point that the argument expressed is ridiculous. You cannot paint an entire group of people with a wide brush.

        • Max07

          Sorry, old chap. Clearly your use of irony has gone way over my head. I’m probably a bit of a chav. By the way, I think you mean ‘I would rather live next door to Romanians *than* UKIP’ etc.

          • Roberto Machado

            What a small person you are.

            • LucieCabrol

              Are you Italian Robert?

              • Roberto Machado

                Canadian, actually, of Portuguese extraction. I currently reside in the UK.

                • LucieCabrol

                  Stay away from our tree’s.

                • Roberto Machado

                  …?

                • LucieCabrol

                  Everybody knows that all Canadians are lumberjacks; combined with your Portuguese ancestry….we’ve seen what you guys have done to the forests of Brazil…..just being cautious that’s all.

                • Roberto Machado

                  I’ll assume you’re being Ironic.

              • Roberto Machado

                Canadian, actually, of Portuguese extraction. I currently reside in the UK.

    • alexander

      coming from a man wearing a beanie hat and sunglasses

  • Eyesee

    I think your intolerance of the remark, is probably your version of the intolerance you complain of. I grew up in England, amongst people who were ‘very much like me’. It’s a cultural thing. I now live in the centre of a large town, on a typical residential street. My neighbours are Chinese, Sri Lankan and next to them, Serbian. I have no problem with any of them (as much as any of us speak to our neighbours!). The Sri Lankans do seem to think their friends and family can park on our driveway any time they feel like it and last summer a visiting group did use my car as the wicket for their game of cricket. But generally, things are OK. But I don’t understand their upbringing, background and sensibilities. I don’t know what might cause offence, which as I do not want to do that to anyone, puts me on edge and uneasy. and I find it mildly offensive to have people, everywhere I go, not just hearing from my house and garden, speaking in foreign tongues, incessantly. I did not invite this and it feels somehow rude. I suppose even that makes me racist as I am not allowed to have any feelings or sensitivities myself. (Of course, I do understand that this feeling of helplessness and the divisiveness it engenders is precisely what the cultural Marxists intended and shows their success in undermining Western democracy and capitalism generally).

  • Karl Popper

    Answer is clear, surely will our anglo saxon kin want to live close to their germanic origins

    • LucieCabrol

      Actually I think our Saxon forebears were rather more from where Denmark and Poland is now….

  • Hippograd

    Choose? We don’t get a choice about who lives in the UK: our betters decide for us. That’s the essence of democracy and only racists would say otherwise.

    However, I know
    that immigration is a big concern for many voters and I recognise that
    we – the Labour Party – are partly to blame for this. In the past, when
    people told us about their worries, we too often dismissed them – and,
    worse, some said that legitimate concerns were based on prejudice. We
    all remember Gillian Duffy. When people told us they were worried about
    the pace of change in their community, or about their wages being
    squeezed, we were too quick to say they were stuck in the past – that
    they needed to change their views, when in reality it was us that were
    stuck in our ways. Trust me — I’m vibrant! writes Sadiq Khan

    • Donafugata

      As with recent remarks by Millipede minor, stable doors and runaway horses come to mind.

      Oops, oh course it’s time for a spot of honesty, there’s an election in the offing.

      • Simon Fay

        “it’s time for a spot of honesty,”
        Nah, it’s Ian Huntley asking the local parents to give him another chance as a babysitter, he won’t do it again etc.

  • Mynydd

    In Wales for years we have had unwanted immigrants living next door, they are called English. Does that make me a racist?

    • Bonkim

      The Welsh are racists of course – the smaller the group, the more exclusive they wish to be.

      • Llamamum

        Exactly: one person alone always assumes their superiority over the rest of humanity.

        • Neil Saunders

          Good point, Taffy. Now fuck off back to Ystradgynlais!

    • Max07

      Of course not. Antipathy towards the English is not racism. It’s perfectly acceptable for any nationality to be as rude as it likes towards us, whether or not such behaviour is justified. Should an Englishman ever dare to respond, however, this most definitely IS racism and will be treated accordingly.

      • Llamamum

        Grow up, whiner.

        • Max07

          Are you mother to a Llama

  • Agrippina

    There are always preferences to be had. I would prefer a canadian over a yank, italian over french, dutch over german, caribbean over african, irish over welsh, NZ over aussie, greek over turk, UAE over saudi, indian over pakistani, japanese over chinese etc.

    • Lucy Sky Diamonds

      Brummie over a Scouser. Welshman over a cockney. Yorkshireman over an Essexman….

      • Agrippina

        scouser over mancunian, lancashire over yorks, cockney over a snob!

        • Lucy Sky Diamonds

          Snob over a Scotsman! Geordie over a Devonian…..

          • Agrippina

            cornish over devonian?

            • Lucy Sky Diamonds

              Possibly, but Cornwall is full of yuppies these days

              • Agrippina

                cornish clotted cream with scone, delicious.

                • Lucy Sky Diamonds

                  We sound so prejudiced. Call the thought police asap.

                • Agrippina

                  That is why we have inborn preferences, for food etc, not because we are prejudiced and neither is anyone I know in UKIP. The poor old media & conlablib troughers are so afraid they are lobbing all sorts of untruths at the party and its leader. We will hold fast and keep going.

                • Lucy Sky Diamonds

                  Italians all the way. Great food great wine and great lovers. What more could a lady want?

                • Llamamum

                  Yeah, ‘cos you actually get some sort of punishment, ‘ay?
                  Oh, hang on…

              • LucieCabrol

                Yuppy over a chav

          • IainRMuir

            “Snob over a Scotsman”

            Not mutually exclusive, you know.

      • Hexhamgeezer

        Brunswick St over Wilson St..

      • Bonkim

        Not a Londoner?

    • IainRMuir

      A croft in the Highlands is probably your best bet.

    • Bonkim

      You surely are racist racist – but so are all the nationalities you mention..

    • LucieCabrol

      Is that in bed, or in the pot or at the dining table as a guest? Its not clear….

    • Llamamum

      Ah. personal preference – or even bias. At last, someone who understands the difference between that and prejudice. Me, I like the Scots more than Indians, but also more than Irish. Unless they’re talking. Irish talking is best.
      This excludes any individuals I have ever known, from anywhere. Then they’re just people: who knew?

  • Lucy Sky Diamonds

    Repeatedly things are twisted and twisted to make more of something.

    For example this Romanian thing. Initially IIRC when talking about crime in relationship to Romanians Farage said he might feel uncomfortable if a load of Romanian men moved in next door. i.e. explicitly not a Romanian family, or Romanians in general.

    Then recently an interviewer compared these Romanian men to German children. No matter where the children are from, I think you’re far less likely to have problems vs a group of men, however (un)likely you are to have problems with those men.

    Then the media turned it into Farage would rather live next to Germans than Romanians. And just now on Channel 4, John Snow suggested that NF flat out doesn’t want to live next to Romanians – no distinction as to which Romanians.

    If people say something like “I’d be concerned if a group of Anything men moved in next door” I think it is deserving to question their statement to get to the bottom of why. To explore what motivates these opinions. However when the media start repeatedly distorting and misrepresenting somebody’s words in order to make more of a story, well sorry they’ve lost me (and I think many others) there.

  • stickywicket

    Rod, prepare to be burned at the stake.

    But well said.

    • Lucy Sky Diamonds

      Rod has never been to a German brothel!

  • hdb

    Sir Patrick Leigh Fermor is not still alive but, for what it is worth, I’m fairly certain from what he wrote about the two countries he would pick Romanians rather than Germans.

  • Terry Field

    For forty years the borders have progressively opened in Europe. Now, this coincides with a massive economic crisis that hits the poor, and particularly the east European poor very hard.
    There is a subjective experience in some countries that these immigrants are more criminally minded. Some have acted and expelled large numbers of them. All very nasty.
    The perspective matters, since people decide on the basis of impressions, not usually on reality.
    THat has severe implications for the stability of Europe.
    We have been here before; the camps were full of Romanys; YET TODAY MOST OF THEM HAVE MOVED INTO THE VILLAGES DESERTED BY THE SAXONS WHO HAVE RETURNED AFTER 800 YEARS TO GERMANY UNDER THEIR ETHNIC RIGHT OF RETURN, UNDER THE GERMAN RACE LAWS.
    Now that really is racism. But it sure works!!!!!!!!!
    Farage, unintentionally makes a simple but powerful oblique point; if you do not want an extreme right wing reaction, do not bait people with an extreme left wing Agenda.
    Without Communism and its barbaric threat, there would have been no Hitler.

    • LucieCabrol

      Without Labours immigration fest, there would be a much much smaller UKIP.

      • Terry Field

        NO, the issues are more to do with the lack of democratic accountability, and the lack of a democratic mandate from the British people in respect of the EU
        .The anti-immigration, anti-foreigner, little-englander petty racism and other visceral reactions is bringing out the unintelligent and the inadequate, but democracy is the real issue.
        It is certainly true that the open door immigration policy of the quite repulsive Blair Brown autocracy has damaged England and has caused this very understandable reaction.

  • Lady Magdalene

    I’d rather live next door to a Brit.

    • statechaos

      What, White Dee? I think I’d rather live next door to a hard-working Romanian.

    • Bonkim

      If you can find one in London.

    • Bonkim

      Are you a Rumanian Gypsy?

  • ohforheavensake

    I’d be OK with either nationality.

    But if you moved in next door, Rod, I’d be gone before you took off your coat.

    • Alfred_Gubbins

      Oh, I say! You’re over here now! Spiffing! Bored with the Telegraph, old chap?
      Still spouting the same old crap, though…

    • belarusi

      Ooh! What a bitch we are today.

    • Lucy Sky Diamonds

      Will you move to Romania?

  • Donafugata

    I’d rather live next door to an SS Obergruppenfuhrer than a family of Roma.

    • ohforheavensake

      And I’d hate to live next door to you.

    • hdb

      You are clearly not Jewish or gay or any of the other myriad of categories that the SS packed people off to the death camps for. In fact you sound like a right sh*t and I doubt anyone would want to live beside you.

      • John Lea

        Oh, shut up you puffed-up numpty. It was just an off-the-cuff jokey remark. Someone further up made a similarly jokey reference to the Spanish Inquisition – why don’t you vomit your humourless indignation over them as well?

    • bwims

      The two resident foul leftie trolls got a bit worked up about this one, Donafugata. How anyone with a picture of itself swallowing a rat has cause to complain, I don’t know.

      • Donafugata

        Thanks, bwims.

        Rod’s choice was between German or Romanian, mine was between extremes of the two options.

        If trolling lefties don’t like the truth, too bad.

  • UniteAgainstSocialism

    given the choice of living next door to a gang of romanian criminals or a house full of BBC presenters with their history of sexual offences, i’d choose the Romanians, but put my house on the market pronto

    • MaxSceptic

      The truth is that Romanians are not the issue – the Roma are.

      The most anti-Roma racists I’ve ever met were Romanians.

      • Bonkim

        But then people living in Europe generally, and in Eastern Europe particularly have sharp feeling of the their ethnicity which determine their nationalities. Europe by and large is much more ethno-centric compared with Britain.

      • Bonkim

        Many in Britain think the same of British Gypsies, and Travellers.

        • General_Patten

          Or West Ham fans – they are also pikeys.

          • Bonkim

            See what happens when Gypsies and Travellers want to set up their camps even though in planning law gypsy camps and social housing – land allocation principles are the same. The local Mimbys put spanners in the works and planning committees usually look at their popular (ethnic) votes and twist the regulations – frequently losing in courts after spending huge amounts of taxpayers’ money.

            Don’t use derogatory terms like ‘Pikeys’.

        • Alexsau91

          Up until recently I did. None of the media helps with that perception, they talk of only the Roma gypsys from Romania, and not the Romanian people themselves.

          • Bonkim

            Pot calling the Kettle black!

        • global city

          before trying that pathetic attempt at some sort of moral/attitudinal equivalence you could at least check out the conditions that both groups live under?

          • Bonkim

            There is a lot of misery around the world – one only thinks about situations nearer home and which one has some hope of changing.

            • global city

              That’s fair enough, and certainly true….. but!

              It is still a nonsense to compare, say, third world hunger with people here using foodbanks.

              You asserted that the situation for travellers here was as bad as it is for Roma in the east…. really unfair and quite dumb actually.

              • Bonkim

                not like for like – Minorities have suffered in all countries of Europe simply because of their heightened sense of ethnicity and religion. Britain looked outward and the Empire and world travel gave it a more balanced sense of understanding of different cultures and religions.

                • global city

                  I do understand. I understand perfectly well that being told to ‘fuck off and get off my land you pikey’ by some irate farmer does not compare in any way what so ever with being sent with your whole family into a gas chamber as a result of government policy…..yes?

                  You also make the case perfectly for why the people and governments of the UK should not have to flagellate our/themselves on the alter of guilt and self hate over these issues.

                • Bonkim

                  Traditionally farmers and Gypsies co-existed and each helped the other – winter camps, seasonal work, etc, in recent decades with increasing planning regulations, farming businesses, etc, farms are no longer welcoming, and local authorities have not been allocating campsites (as is their legal obligation) which has increased conflict between local residents and Gypsies/travellers.

                  In a free country people should have a right to their life-choices and state should remain neutral and provide basic housing/social services according to individual choice – that does not appear to be taking place and plenty of NIMBYs objecting to Gypsy sites which in turn prompts illegal occupation, etc.

                  Eastern Europe the discrimination/exploitation is brutal with youngsters begging or women being trafficked as prostitutes – and rise of criminal gangs – a natural consequence – people have to make a living – and in some parts of Europe particularly Rumania/Bulgaria/Hungary/ex-Yugoslavia the social/economic/legal situation is no different to that prevailing pre-WW2.

      • bwims

        Here’s a good example: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/20/Romanian-agrees-with-farage

        She clearly refers to Gypsies.

  • LB

    How about a migrant who is a net contributor, rather than a net taker of other people’s tax money?

    Nice, non racist criteria.

    None of these, you can come if you are European and hence mostly white, but if you are Africa and most probably black, we will make it hard, very hard.

    • Bonkim

      If you are a net contributor, you will live in Millionaires’ Row in Knightsbridge. most there are non-Europeans.

      • LB

        And the rest are net consumers right. So when they come, they take money from other people.

        So a benefit migrant is a net consumer.

        Millionaire’s row are net contributors.

        Where is the boundary between the two?

        Well, average government spend is 11.5K per person per year. That’s over 40K in income, per migrant. Man woman and child, each. That ignores pensions at 5K per year per adult.

        That’s why mass migration is a disaster and we haven’t moved on to the side effects such the damage to the poor from wages going down.

  • Martin Jennerson

    From the same interview I also enjoyed this exchange:

    J O’B: “So are people right when they call you racist?”
    NF: “I am unsure of what you mean by racist”
    J O’B: “How can you possibly not be racist if you don’t know what it means?”

    Depressing

    • GentlemanPugilist

      Yes it is. It seems clear to me that Farage was asking for the interviewer to provide a definition of the term, which is fair enough given what constitutes racism. For example, I can remember numerous occasions where people have been accused of being racist towards Muslims, which is bizarre as it is a religion and demonstrates how prejudice is often conflated with racism.

      Furthermore is one a racist because they believe that there are biological differences between the races besides those of a superficial nature? Are, for example, Ashkenazi Jews more intelligent than aboriginal Australians, or Caucasians for that matter? Are black people faster than people from East Asia? Surely denying that different racial groups have evolved differently in order to adjust to their particular climate, contradicts Darwin’s theory of evolution? On the Origin of Species had the alternative title the Preservation of the Favoured Races in the Struggle For Life. What’s more it’s obvious to anybody that Africans have evolved to have darker skin in order to protect them from the sun’s rays, or perhaps Europeans became lighter in order to help absorb vitamin D.

      There are many different definitions of what constitutes a ‘racist’, and often it’s just a term of abuse used to silence anybody winning an argument with a ‘liberal’.

      • Martin Jennerson

        I was just appalled by the pure self-righteous thuggery of it all: accusing someone of being racist – then insisting they cannot deny being racist if they don’t quite understand what’s meant by that accusation – the reasoning being you logically cannot deny being something when you don’t know what that something is (forgetting that you can’t affirm the accusation either). Just appalling ideological thuggery, real witch-hunt stuff.

        • GeeBee36_6

          CONFESS!!!

          J O’B as Torquemada…

      • http://asa.zamo.ca/ zamo

        Race is a social construct. Ashkenazi Jews is not a “race” in the understanding you seem to give the term (you haven’t defined it either) any more than “Caucasians” and as such you are comparing groups of people based on ill-defined criteria. What exactly is “intelligence”? Have you even bothered to look at the controversies surrounding that concept? Are you aware that before African Americans were associated with basketball, it was Jews who dominated that game and it was thought to be due to their race? Are you aware of a difference between Romany and Romanians and would you be able to enunciate it?

        • robbydot

          No, you are completely wrong there. Race is not a social construct, however many times you say it is.

          • http://asa.zamo.ca/ zamo

            I only said it once. Here are a few arguments: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/what-we-mean-when-we-say-race-is-a-social-construct/275872/ – if you have counterarguments, I’d like to hear them

            • Lodovico

              Here are some other social constructs:

              – Democracy
              – Equality
              – Human Rights
              – Social Justice
              – Society
              – Mankind
              – Species
              – Ethics
              – Morality
              – Each and every abstraction and category of human reasoning

              • http://asa.zamo.ca/ zamo

                For some reason, I cannot load the page anymore. It seems that Spectator has made it “less available” as Rod Liddle worked on a better version of his article (he’s got 3 or 4 on the subject).. I am thus reply via email, not sure this will work.

    • mattrp

      I think his point was that you can’t very well go round saying “I’m definitely not a racist and nor is my party” if you then go all coquettish when someone challenges you to say what racism is. It seemed to the interviewer (and me) that Farage was doing a typical politican’s dodge of trying to reframe the question rather than answer it.

      • William_Stanier

        C**P. It’s the other way around. In the Humpty-Dumpty post-McPherson world, words mean what anyone wants them to mean. If Gobby O’Brien thinks Farage is a racist, then he is because that’s the McPherson principle. There is no defence. Guilty as charged. Off with his head!

        • mattrp

          This always seems to be the response when Farage/UKIP are challenged on anything – a question becomes a smear. “Are you a racist” becomes “You are racist” in the mind of the UKIP supporter. The presenter asked him the question and then allowed him to answer. Farage tried to dodge it by saying “what is racism”.

          • William_Stanier

            We’ll go round and round in circles on this. The dance will stop when you admit you are wrong.

            When the questioner defines the terms, it’s not a proper debate.

            • mattrp

              But the presenter specifically did not define the terms – where are you getting this stuff from? It was Farage who chose to get into definitions with “what is racism”.

              • William_Stanier

                God, you are a bit dim, aren’t you? It was O’Brien who made the accusation ON HIS TERMS.
                Go away and think about it.

          • bwims

            No he didn’t. He clearly wanted the Leftie thug to tell him what HE meant by racism.

          • LucieCabrol

            You are not seriously suggesting, having listened to that interview, that it was a balanced and reasonable attempt to get to the bottom of Farage’s views on immigration?….have a little self respect.

      • Mike

        Boll****, the problem is the left refuses to define what racism is which leaves them with the opportunity to use that expression on any subject they disagree with you on.

        All sane minded people will condemn radical Islam but many a time they’ve been accused of racism by the left when quite obviously religion and race are two totally different things.

        These people are definitely on a modern day witch hunt and use exactly the same methods in their interrogation such as ‘doublethink’ where they hold contradictory positions at the same time. Its no different to the medieval ducking stool used by witch finders, if she survived a ducking she was guilty of being a witch but if she died, she was innocent.

    • Eyesee

      The question is valid but ill phrased. He needed to point out that he couldn’t know what version of racism the presenter intended to refer to at that moment. The term of course is entirely fluid and can no longer have a dictionary definition. It applies where it is intended to apply as opposed to being subject to any test or proof. It is true because the speaker claims it to be. (The answer to which is to quote their own crap back at them; ‘there is no truth, just your version and my version).

    • robbydot

      Not depressing, Martin. Quite funny in fact and shows 0’Bien for the idiot he cleary must be to say such a ridiculous thing.

  • John Johnston

    Of course they could be Transylvanian Saxons, in which case they could be ethnic Germans of Romanian nationality.

    • Tudor Dimitriu

      Ethnic Germans of Romanian nationality, raised in the Romanian culture and natively speaking a Romance language. They wouldn’t feel particularly Germanic, as the Germans themselves found out, much to their discontent. Many Saxons moved to Germany during the eighties, only to find themselves being treated as Ausslanders really fast.

      • Porphyrogenitos

        Have many returned out of interest and what has happened to their villages?

        • Tudor Dimitriu

          Most have not returned. One has to keep in mind that the communist government was essentially selling Germans and Jews back to their countries for money. Combine this humiliating process with the economic gap between the two countries, as well as the witch hunt that went on in the late 40s and in the 50s over Transylvanian Saxons that fought in the Wehrmacht, and you’ll realize there was never much incentive for returning home. The villages are depopulated and partly run over by Gypsies and Romanian paupers that moved into the derelict houses. Some Germans have returned, but most of them are elderly chaps who haven’t got much to look forward to, anyway. There is an attempt to blow some life back into the German communities in Romania, but it’s an uphill struggle.

          • hdb

            Except that Germany wasn’t their country! The Saxons had been living in Romania since the thirteenth century. All that had in common with Germany was language.

            • Tudor Dimitriu

              Language is important enough by itself. And Romania was no longer their country either. The degradation they were exposed to quickly wiped out any illusions about that. Now, if the Germans had felt that it was not their country, they would not have paid for their emigration. If the Romanian government thought Romania was their country rather than Germany, it would not have engaged in selling them out, 5000 dollars a piece. And if the Saxons themselves felt Transylvanian/Romanian enough, they would have stayed put. In fact, those that did did exactly that.

  • Nkaplan

    And what would your answer be Rod if, like Farage, you were asked the even more farcical question: ‘would you prefer to live next door to a group or Romanian men or a group of German children?’

    • Lucy Sky Diamonds

      Blue eyed and blonde haired German children?

  • MikeF

    How many of the ‘Romanians’ arrested by the Met lately were not so much Romanian as Rom… oh you know what I mean?

    • Tudor Dimitriu

      To be honest, I don’t think it really matters. They all have Romanian passports. Now, to make things clear, I’m Romanian myself, and Britain is a tempting migration destination for me. But I can’t blame people for being angry at the general behaviour of many migrants carrying Romanian passports. After all, these people didn’t come out of nowhere, didn’t start behaving badly over night, and if Romanian society and Romanian law enforcement had been doing a good job, they wouldn’t have turned into everybody else’s problem. And if some day I decide to move from a country that taxes me to no end so it can feed an entire underclass that keeps voting the same impostors in every four years, I wouldn’t want to find out that my new home does the same, only in a more hygienic manner. I think it’s reasonable to be worried about groups with bad behavioral and criminal statistics, I think it’s great to have a system that prevents migrants from immediately claiming benefits, and I think that if those systems were properly in place, most people would feel a lot less racist or xenophobic now.

      • MikeF

        Well said – I have nothing against Romanians. In any case the real enemies of the tolerant, easy-going society that has been under sustained attack here now for 50 years or so are people who grew up in it, often in conditions of some privilege, but whose conceit and bile drives them to attempt to destroy it. What they hate about it, though, is not that it is ‘racist’, because it isn’t, but that it has a commitment to freedom of speech and belief. Those are the real targets.

        • Tudor Dimitriu

          Not to mention hard work, property, order, solvency, responsibility, history, the pursuit of truth through reasoning, debate and negotiation, in one word, Western Civilization.

          • Bonkim

            Tudor – you speak much sense.

          • GUBU

            Western Civilization – that’s two words.

            • Tudor Dimitriu

              Great nitpicking! You deserve a cookie. One concept then…

              • GUBU

                Isn’t pedantry wonderful?

              • global city

                That’s ‘racist’ is it not?

          • Roberto Machado

            Wait, are we talking about the Greeks now?

            • Tudor Dimitriu

              No, we are talking about the mutations in Western Civilization that happened roughly between the 16th and the 19th century ultimately producing what we know as modern Western Civilization. The Byzantine Empire with its religion and phylosophy is as much an offspring of the ancient Greek-Roman world as Catholic France and the protestant Low Countries. But they are worlds apart and there is much more in common between the Low Countries and France then there will ever be between any of them and the Byzantine Empire or modern Greece. Modern Western Civilization culminated in the industrial revolution and early 20th century Europe. Some of us are still opposed to the postmodern world that followed, especially the idea of forfeiting any concept of rational, transcendent truth and replacing it with a relative “personal” truth. Discussing this, however is far beyond the scope of the original blog post and best left for a nice conversation between real life friends over a good pint.

        • global city

          Always has been.

          Multiulturalism, political correctness, minority ‘rights’, etc, are all merely tools to bring about the destruction of the west, as stated and set out by Gramsci and all his mates.

          Ironically the attitudes of the Frankfurt school adherents to minorities and immigrants are also highlighted, openly stating that following such tactics would pollute then destroy western society, they are merely to be used and exploited to achieve the ends of the Marxist fetishists….. very tolerant all round I’d suggest!

      • Lady Magdalene

        I expect you would be made fairly welcome. All we want is the right to choose who comes and lives in our country.
        We want the right to keep out criminals, beggars and terrorists.
        It’s astounding that asking for something so reasonable is treated like heresy was in the 14th century.
        But then the EU is a religion to The Elite.

  • edithgrove

    Was Brancusi Romanian? Probably a lot of hammering through the night with him. And dust, I shouldn’t wonder. Otherwise probably a thoughtful soul, so it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other.

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