Coffee House

Five things you need to know about Lord Ashcroft’s latest polling

24 May 2014

9:45 PM

24 May 2014

9:45 PM

Labour is on course to win the next general election, according to Lord Ashcroft. In two polls — one of 26 Tory-Labour marginal constituencies and another national poll carried out after election day — the former Tory treasurer says there is currently a 6.5 per cent swing to Labour. That’s enough for 83 Conservative MPs to disappear and for Ed Miliband to have a working majority. Both polls highlight the significant challenge David Cameron faces to remain Prime Minister next year. Here are five things you need to know about Ashcroft’s latest polling.

1. According to the marginal polls, Labour will have a working majority

In Ashcroft’s top 26 marginal constituencies (he is keen to point out Conservative HQ may have different seats in mind), there is a ten point lead over the Conservatives for Labour. This would give Labour a majority in the House of Commons of around 70 seats, enough to govern effectively. Based on voting intentions for a general election tomorrow, Ukip are now on 20 per cent.

2. Not all Conservatives want a Tory majority government

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Most surprisingly, Ashcroft’s polling suggests that 20 per cent of Conservative voters do not want to see a Tory majority government after the next election. Although most of the voters are still overwhelmingly in favour of a majority, it seems one in five Tories have been won over by the concept of coalition.

3. Half of Ukip voters are disenchanted Tories

Just over half of those who voted Ukip at the Euro elections this week voted Conservative at the last general election. But in next year’s election, Ashcroft’s findings suggest half of these folks will go back to the Conservative party. The others mostly haven’t made up their minds yet. Two thirds of Ukippers also think David Cameron is the best person to be Prime Minister.

4. Ed Balls’ constituents trust George Osborne on the economy

In the marginal constituencies, Ashcroft reports voters are generally more optimistic (than pessimistic) about the economic outlook for the next 12 months. Outside of London, people were less optimistic than in the capital — but there was one notable exception. The people of Morley and Outwood were more optimistic on the economic outlook than the other marginals. Their MP, is one Ed Balls.

5. Half of the electorate hasn’t decided how it will vote in 2015

Although many of the findings here are consistent with the polling trends we’ve seen recently, it’s worth remembering half of those said they haven’t decided how they will vote in the next general election yet. Generally, voters become firmer in their views and voting intentions six months before an election. Although the electoral landscape looks pretty hopeless for the Tories right now, things could be different later in the year.


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Show comments
  • William Clark

    Please vote Tory. It is the only way to stop the mad, evil, anglophobic socalists. A vote for UKIP will let the lefties in – then watch out. If you think they were bad last time, we ain’t seen nothing yet. Then many will regret votign for Farage. Civil war will be the only option – especially if they only win because of Scottish and Welsh votes.

    • Denis_Cooper

      Never.

  • Smithersjones2013

    Just over half of those who voted Ukip at the Euro elections this week
    voted Conservative at the last general election. But in next year’s
    election, Ashcroft’s findings suggest half of these folks will go back
    to the Conservative party. The others mostly haven’t made up their minds
    yet. Two thirds of Ukippers also think David Cameron is the best person
    to be Prime Minister.

    And of course all those voters are going to trot back to Dave as soon as he throws a few scraps from his table and shouts heel! I do so hope that tories figure that into their election plans.

    Milestone 1 All looks bleak Miliband the Misfit is packing for Downing Street

    Milestone 2 3 million prodigal kippers return to the Tory fold

    Milestone 3 The Miracle Happens

    Milestone 4 Dave rejoices as he triumphantly claims victory from the steps of Dowing Street

    So go on Tories bet your house on a Cameron victory after all not only does Lord Ashcroft’s polls state it but Little Sebby Payne thinks you need to know it…….

  • saffrin

    3: Two thirds of Ukippers also think David Cameron is the best person to be Prime Minister.
    They was only having a laugh.

  • Mike

    UKIP’s approach is probably akin to a guerrilla war to achieve independence. When your opponents are too big to knock off their perch in one swipe you have to think strategically over how to achieve it piece by piece.

    Farage has pretty much dealt the death blow to the Libdumbs and Clegg gave him
    that strategic piece on a plate when he went like a lamb to the
    slaughter with a debate he couldn’t win. This alone gave UKIP traction and trashed the sycophantic media who played the bully boys for the Tories and Labour.

    With that out of the way, a massive increase at council level and an
    expected trashing of LabCon at EU level, Farage & UKIP can continue
    their strategic approach up to the general election.

    At this point due to the first past the post system, Farage & UKIP wont be
    able to gain enough seats at Westminster but they can put the fear of
    god into Cameron over a Labour win.

    In a struggle for fairness over self determination, many groups around the world have upset the apple cart of the status quo as a first step toward finishing off their opponents. At the next election, I can see UKIP splitting the Tory vote and slicing off a large chunk of Labours but letting Labour in as a minority government. They won’t be able to govern effectively without a majority vote and I could see a second election just 2 years afterwards where UKIP mop up far more votes. Then it will get very interesting with many foxes at Westminster.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      There will be a LabCon coalition, would be my prediction.

      • Mike

        I wouldn’t rule any deal out despite what Cameron has said over UKIP. As for the LibLabCon looters and smoochers, their hold on power however achieved is far more important that whats good for the country.

  • Denis_Cooper

    Another thing “you need to know” is on slide 6:

    “And in the general election, UKIP Euro-voters?

    51% UKIP again
    21% Conservative
    11% Labour
    14% don’t know”
    So the net benefit to the Tory party in its general election contest with Labour would be just 10% of the UKIP voters in the EU Parliament elections, which will probably be something like 10% of 30% on a 35% turnout, or about 1% of the total electorate; and with a general election turnout of say 65% that would translate to a net benefit for the Tories vis-à-vis Labour of less than 2%.
    As has been pointed out before, beating up UKIP will not do much to help the Tories win the next general election, not even if UKIP was beaten to death; it’s difficult to believe that Tory strategists don’t understand this, so there must be another explanation for the determination of the Tory leadership to crush UKIP into the dust; and the obvious explanation is that those leading the Tory party are totally committed to keeping us in the EU at all costs, while UKIP is totally committed to getting us out of the EU.

  • Denis_Cooper

    “Just over half of those who voted Ukip at the Euro elections this week voted Conservative at the last general election.”

    And of those who did not vote Tory in May 2010 there are more who say they
    voted LibDem than say they voted Labour, slide 3 here:

    http://www.conservativehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Lord-Ashcroft-battleground-presentation-May-2014.pdf

    “UKIP Euro voters

    52% voted Conservative in 2010
    15% voted Labour in 2010
    18% voted LibDem in 2010”

    But once again and in common with other opinion pollsters Lord Ashcroft has
    only asked how people voted four years ago and has failed to ask the question:

    “Which party were you supporting before you decided to switch to UKIP?”

    Because by early 2011 about 60% of those who had supported the LibDems in the general election had deserted them; and most of those who floated away from the LibDems floated to Labour at that time, which is why the Tory lead over Labour
    was reversed, but some have since floated on from Labour to UKIP.

  • Denis_Cooper

    I find this currently fashionable

    “N things you need to know …”

    formula a bit irritating.

    It’s rarely the case that the journalist is such an authority on the subject that he or she can actually tell us what we need to know.

    How about this as an alternative:

    “N things that I’ve noticed and would like to tell you …”

  • paulus

    To take a beating is an important lesson, a lesson that must be learnt. Or otherwise you will never learn to fight.

    You make every drill a battle, so every battle beomes a drill.

  • Kitty MLB

    Anyone here who says they want Cameron to fail needs to be
    reminded that you vote for a party and not the leader.
    Leaders come and go. If lovely Nigel Farage were to go
    I wonder who would be leader of his party.
    And giving Cameron a bloody nose might seem like fun
    But Labour most certainly will get back in, due to
    their unfair advantage.Scotland and Wales who will
    both vote Labour.The electorate will be the ones
    to fall.Not Cameron and his pals. They will be at their next cosy
    job.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Leaders coe and go.Indeed they do. Time for red-faced Dave to go. There have been worse leaders for sure. But there have been better and we need better.

      • telemachus

        Replaced by whom
        Even more patrician George

        • Kitty MLB

          Oh do stop buzzing around heads little wasp. Its not the silly
          season you know…Where is that swatting stick.

          • Frank

            Kitty, until the tories recognise that they have a major problem, they cannot self-cure. The context is that the tory party is facing its least credible opponent for years (ie the current labour party – evidenced by their low poll results) and the voters have given blinding clear guidance on what they care about (ie control the borders, kick out foreign criminals, prosecute white collar crime, bin all the subsidies for the green c**p, get fracking and, above all, get out of the EU). In very simple terms, if the tories had been listening and reacting to this guidance, there never would have been a need for UKIP, and the tories would be heading for a massive win in 2015.
            In business terms, you would sack the CEO (just as Mark Bolland is toast at M&S, so Dave ought to be sacked tomorrow – this is after all the guy who couldn’t win a massive majority when faced with the most incompetent Prime Minister we have had for 50 years).

      • Kitty MLB

        This sounds like Browns rainbow coalition.We had
        red, now we have pink, and yellow.Fergus and
        his likeminded kippers want purple.And blue
        Are politically out in the cold.
        So many purple plotters.Some of us are able to
        deal with all of them….

  • Kitty MLB

    Forgetting how totally Ludicrous it would be for Ed Miliband
    to become Prime Minister.
    How on earth can we give the perpetrators that caused the
    economic firestorm in this countries back the matches.
    I am not a Cameroon but I most certainly want a Majority
    Conservative Government next May.
    Coalitions do not work in this Country, the Lib Dems are finished
    and the Conservative party, the party of Thatcher is the only
    one that can govern this country next May.
    UKIP have pointed out that the legitimate political parties have
    not been listening to the electorate, I am sure they will now.
    UKIP will at some point take over from Labour as the party
    for the working classes who have been abused and abandoned
    by Labour.But in the mean time a country still needs running.

    • Fergus Pickering

      If that’s what you want, Kitty, you’d better tell Cameron to mend his ways sharpish. But since you are not a public school male, he won’t listen.

      • HookesLaw

        You are posting endless rubbish this morning. Not least being happy to sell the Tories down the river in favour of UKIP and thinking it safe to let labour back in.
        This govt despite this libdams have done a good job in clearing up labours mess.
        All the rest is hysteria from a load of bigots.

        • Kitty MLB

          UKIP want Labour back in Hookey.
          Lib Dems have made it their mantra ‘ we stopped the Tories’
          Yes tried to gerrymander constantly with the help of the
          gerrymandering Labour Party.
          Conservatives need to remember Labour are the enemy,
          and they will really know what a socialist government it then.

        • Kitty MLB

          Fergus never speaks rubbish, Hooky.
          He only speaks English, and does so very well.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Ah, well down to your usual standard, Hooky, by which I judge all is not well in Toryland.

        • Weaver

          I hate labour and the thought of them getting back in. But Cameron’s conservatives aren’t much better from my point of view.

          No thanks – I’ll go UKIP regardless of the risks from Ed – in the hope of having a better choice and chance in 2020.

    • Makroon

      Kitty, the juvenile Carswell thinks the Tories should “listen to the electorate” to the extent of having online votes on important matters, a sort of X-factor rebooted.
      In this age of zero deference or respect and declining educational standards, when every half-wit opinion is declared “equally valid”, representative democracy’s bluff has been called, and no coherent response has yet been forthcoming.

  • EschersStairs

    People poll for Labour for the same reason they prefer reading fiction over non-fiction. But when their money is on the line, they vote with a more seriousness.

  • Maurice_Gosfield

    I know that Tory, Liberal and Labour are all equally awful in the contemptuous opinion of UKIP supporters but can anyone explain how Labour under Ed Milliband winning the 2015 GE could be construed as a ‘victory’ for UKIP?

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …an even better question: How could any of LibLabCon winning in 2015 be construed as a victory for UKIP?

    • Kitty MLB

      A good question, and for any party apart from treacherous
      Lib Dems it should always be country before party before country.UKIP will eventually be the party for the working
      classes.The likes of Mrs Duffy but that will not happen
      in just a year.And the referendum will not happen two
      years later. Labour have categorically said no.
      But who knows how the electorate will vote, so thats
      the point.

      • Alexsandr

        Did you hear the awful Simon Hughes on PM programme on Friday. He seemed to think a party that has seen its popular vote wither and die still had a legitimate claim to be in government
        We should start asking lab and con how they feel about a coalition with a party roundly rejected by the electorate I think if either say they would go into a coalition with the limp dems then they do not deserve anyones vote. Otherwise a vote for the tories or labour is a vote for Clegg.

    • Fergus Pickering

      In this way. Listen carefully. Labour wins. Cameron is out. A new Tory leader of the correct, right persuasion, forges links with UKIP. Have you got it?

      • http://google.co.eu Sentinel

        After failing to win outright for the fifth time in a row, do you think the Conservative Party would survive?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          If it doesn’t change drastically, it will be dead within 10 years.

      • Alexsandr

        if UKIP were to join with the tories, and there was not a massive shift ion tory policy, then for me UKIP is not worthy of my vote.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Well, of course there would be a massive shift. That is the point.

      • Weaver

        That’s one possibility. I’d like to see UKIP become a populist, libertarian party; standing up for families, small business, and common freedoms. To rebuild the working class coalition that Thatcher had…

        • Colonel Mustard

          Conservatives in other words!

          • Weaver

            Well, I could do without some of the social attitudes and rural nimbyism, but yeah, not too far off what the conservatives used to be.

      • Colonel Mustard

        A possibility but it might not be enough given the unelected “shadow establishment” allied to the Labour party. Party politics is now almost a passive influence on actual policy given the EU and the purveyors of the huge quangocracy and fake charity la la land. Any alternative party has to somehow fight that permanently 30%+ Hydra (difficult) as well as persuading the rest of the public. Then in office – if – it has to set about somehow dismantling and disempowering that monster.

      • Kitty MLB

        Yes you want Labour to win, dont you.
        I have seen a lot of people here in a new light in the
        past few days.But alas and alark that is life.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Of course I don’t WANT Labour to win. But if Tories won’t behave like Tories what can you do?

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Come in, my wandering son. Take your place at the table. We will kill the fatted calf. We will dance and sing and make merry. We will mount Dave’s head on a spike. Then let’s go down the pub and watch the afternoon matches.

          • Kitty MLB

            There is no need to shout at me.
            I see you have Viceroy agreeing with you
            now, that says it all.
            You are not the chap I thought you were,
            you can take a pop at me for saying that
            if you like, he would.

            • Fergus Pickering

              I should hve put the want in italics. Not a shout, Kitty. Would I shout at you? Are we going to let a teeny political difference come between us? Surely not. Wait and see. It will all turn out for the best, mark my words.

              • Kitty MLB

                You are older & much wiser then I. So I shall trust that things shall turn out for the best. No, you would never shout at
                me, even when I rattle away to kingdom come, driving poor
                old Fergus up the wall. You and I do get on well enough for you to tell me to shut up, so please remember that.
                I’d better go and feed a prickly little fellow, that’s my husband
                and then a grumpy baby hedgehog.
                PS I remember what you said ages ago about UKIP-
                you only promised twice and not 3 times.

    • Alexsandr

      I think liblabcon are all as bad as one another
      why should I vote for one of them to keep the other out?
      Me, I think people should vote for the candidate they want in the commons. Is that too simple for you?

  • the viceroy’s gin

    “…the former Tory treasurer says there is currently a 6.5 per cent swing to Labour.”

    .

    And this poll is from the same toff who said the Cameroons were 2 points ahead of the Millipedes shortly before Thursday’s election. Of course, I went through the internals of that poll, and like seemingly every poll his lordship produces, its methodology was severed from any industry standard for political polling. It was flat bogus, and was clearly a driven poll.

    And now, suddenly, Lord Ashcroft of Whimsical Numerics has discovered, less than a fortnight after his previous poll had given the Cameroons the biggest deliverance miracle since the little ships, that the Cameroons are now trailing Lab by a huge margin.

    Wow. Welcome to the topsy turvy world of his lordship’s craftwork.

    I mean, one might suspect that maybe, oh, I don’t know, perchance, and just by happenstance, one or the other of these polls is pure garbage, intentionally or unintentionally. Then again, maybe they’re both garbage. I know the first one was, and why waste time on this one?

    This guy is a charlatan.

    • Fergus Pickering

      He is not a charlatan but he is no friend to Cameron and his gang either.

      • you_kid

        I will offer a second opinion:
        he is a charlatan, he is no friend to Cameron an his gang.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          I’ll offer an opinion. You and all your sockpuppets should apply for a group discount at the bolshevik coffee shops you frequent.

          • you_kid

            Lad, you need to chillax. I am agreeing with you, wholeheartedly – that should make you think …

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …if you or any of your many sockpuppets think or say it, it’s liable to be socialist nuttery, lad .

      • the viceroy’s gin

        He is a charlatan and nobody in their right mind is a friend of Call Me Dave and his rabble, so that can’t be any distinguishing factor.

    • you_kid

      I mean, come on, you are beginning to spell and write like I do. Lad.
      It’s Kraftwerk btw …

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …I like your goat sockpuppet better, lad. Can you bring that one back?

    • Makroon

      Well said viceroy.

      Like everything else in this benighted country, the “opinion polls” and their “interpretations” are irredeemably corrupt. God knows why anyone takes that totally compromised YouGov manipulator Kellner seriously with his carefully worded questions and carefully selected panels (my wife is an occasional panel member).

      Ashcroft is another would-be off-stage manipulator. His “interpretations” are tailor-made for the occasion, (a UKIP breakthrough), and right on cue, his Westminster sock-puppet (@RM the viceroy), Davis pops up with his half-baked nostrums.
      Ashcroft is the Tory equivalent of the LibDem’s Oakeshott, God knows what they want – except to manipulate their puppets into power.

  • itdoesntaddup

    Your point 3 is wrong. Check the poll and you’ll find that the data only refer to those who voted in 2010 – not the rather large contingent of NOTAs coaxed out of hiding. Ashcroft did describe it misleadingly in his write-up/speech, but a good journalist double check sources.

  • Colin

    It’s a long game. You can’t eat an elephant in one or even 2 sittings. The main, short term effect of the emergence of UKIP will be the ongoing disruption of the cosy cartel of modern UK politics. The results of last thursday are already forcing the more enlightened pundits to reassess their thinking. I note however, that some of the people normally lauded for their insight have been left floundering. It will be interesting to see how things play out. Nobody really predicted what actually happened in the council elections. Let’s see what happens after the EU results are in. Then it’s the Newark poll.

    The challenge for Farage and his pals now, is to keep their feet on the ground, maintain discipline and get back to the fight.

    All bets are now off.

    • Hello

      “The challenge for Farage and his pals now, is to keep their feet on the ground, maintain discipline and get back to the fight”

      Pfft — this is Ukip “Colin”: “discipline” is their middle name.

      • Colin

        All they need is six or maybe 7 seats at the GE. Given the disruption to the traditional balance of power they’ve caused, in key election battle grounds, that could hold the balance of power. In addition, they should concentrate on building on the Social Media presence they’ve built up.

        • Hello

          No, I don’t think they will. If Ukip hold the balance of power on six or seven seats then a minority government will be attempted and an election held later.

          Cameron would be wiser to seek support from Labour than Ukip in the commons, and Miliband would be wiser to seek support from the Conservatives than Ukip.

          Ukip is an insurgent party, it can’t afford to be responsible, and so no one can work with it. It won’t hold the balance of power.

          • Colonel Mustard

            “Cameron would be wiser to seek support from Labour than Ukip in the commons, and Miliband would be wiser to seek support from the Conservatives than Ukip.”

            That would bring some honesty back to politics. The two parties that have both moved left and pursued the same grim policies whilst pretending to fight each other deserve each other. They are like two slimy corporate advertising teams trying to sell the same stale product – more tax, more spend, bigger government, more immigration, more EU red tape – as something wonderful for the people of England.

            • Kitty MLB

              The Conservative Party has not moved left.
              We are still living with the leftie consequencues
              of the last government.We are in coalition
              with those treacherous lefties the Lib Dems.
              Cameron might not be as right wing as the
              rest of us. But allow Labour back in to
              resume their reign of destruction, and
              everyone will know what a real leftie is
              especially with Miliband.

              • Fergus Pickering

                Naw. Miliband is a weak-kneed , stupid son of his father. He will be incapable of doing anything until he is told to by his Trade Union masters. He will run out of credibility after three days.

                • telemachus

                  As your intellectual superior you ignore him at your peril

                • First L

                  You may be a troll, but at least sometimes you make me laugh out loud.

                  Miliband struggles to be the superior intellect in the room when he’s putting his infant son to bed.

                • Alexsandr

                  He is not my intellectual superior. He is a fool born with a silver spoon in his mouth with no experience of the real world. And saying to the electorate that he is intellectually superior is nearly as bad as the Harry Enfield character who boasted ‘We are considerably richer than yow!’

                • Fergus Pickering

                  You have a hnanging phrase there, tele old son. Be nice and Ill tell you what a hanging phrase is.

                • telemachus

                  Go on Fergus
                  You are a nice man and Nigel has the nicest grin I have seen in a pub for a long time

                • Colonel Mustard

                  If there is any intellectual superiority there it is the superiority of the political wonk or geek, schooled in theory through a privileged and cosseted upbringing and then raised in occupation through a privileged and cosseted sponsorship. And the operative word is ‘occupation’ rather than job.

                  He was selected for a safe Labour seat in “competetion” with another Labour spad. He has not had to struggle for anything or win anything by achievement. He was working in Channel 4 when he was “talent” spotted by that ghastly red witch Harmon and subsequently sponsored by the odious cloaked communist Brown who no doubt identified a kindred spirit.

                  How much of this “success” was promulgated on dynastic fame as Son of Communitht is unknown but can be guessed at, given the left’s penchant for the type of blinkered hagiography you indulge in here.

                • Makroon

                  Bravo ! colonel.

                • McRobbie

                  In 3 days labour in power can do massive damage to our country by driving down business optimism and increasing the welfare bill, and you underestimate the shoe licking mentality of lefties when it comes to handing behind the scenes power to the mad men in the trade unions….and they can destroy us for a generation and more..as they did until maggie sorted them out.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  They have a taste for coercive legislation too and it will be geared towards disempowering any voice of dissent.

              • Colonel Mustard

                I think they have moved left in as much as what is now considered the centre ground has moved left and the Conservatives have acknowledged and accepted many left wing presumptions or propositions rather than offering an alternative narrative. How much of this is from genuine conviction and how much from fear of provoking “outrage” from the vested interests of the vast left wing “shadow establishment” is difficult to discern.

                Most of that leftwards shift has been achieved by the same kind of emotive “blackmail” – “think like us or innocent children will die” – deployed by a certain buzzing wasp hereabouts who asserts that only his party is “reasonable” and holds the moral high ground. That deception is predicated entirely on intentions rather than consequences, but it also depends on the manipulation of language – the word “progressive” for example. Therefore the proposition “We mean well even though millions might die” (the fundamental basis for the regimes of Stalin and Mao) is accepted without any real challenge. And “progressive” becomes a word judged on the basis of intentions – or presumptions – rather than outcome.

                Probably the best example as it relates to the Labour party is the abolition of grammar schools. That was predicated on the intention of equality of education but its actual negative consequences disregarded – even after there was plenty of evidence for them. The Tories would have been forced to apologise and subjected to ritual humiliation; their crime, like the poll tax never to be forgotten and to become enshrined in left wing mythology. Labour doesn’t have to apologise and its crimes are never enshrined. It merely moves on to the next “intention”, sweeping away the evidence of the consequences of its previous follies. This is why after decades of Labour government they are still talking about the “struggle” for equality and fairness as though they have only just arrived.

                The ultimate destination of “equality and fairness” – an egalitarian ideal – must be state sponsored communism, not arising from revolution but from its artful imposition by a class of unelected apparatchiks. The creation of which we have been witness to since about 1989, coincidentally when the Cold War ended.

                Blair shifted Labour to the right, in as much as he cynically accepted a marriage between the social engineering of the left and the corporate conveniences of big business. The same sort of ideologically contradictory deal successfully pursued in China. Cameron, the self-proclaimed heir to Blair, did the same kind of sidestep but in the other direction. Already wedded to the corporate conveniences of big business he embraced the left’s social engineering agenda, albeit ineptly and frustrated by the economic constraints of recession.

                So all three parties now sit on vaguely left wing territory of the proto-Chinese model with a taste for top down “we know what’s best for you” authoritarianism wedded to tax and spend and the pandering to and raising of the tyranny of minorities. Miliband promises to clip the corporate wings but does so by re-heating the failed left wing dogma of the 1970s rather than anything truly inventive or imaginative that the corporates could not wriggle out of. Cameron just promises, this and that, here and there, pointing in various directions like a weather vane depending on which direction and how hard he sees the wind blowing.

                • Weaver

                  I fear social democracy is dead or dying with the Boomers who made it. It’s expensive promises cannot be funded…

                  Something rather slimier and corporatist seems to be taking its place.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, still socialist, but facing another (wrong) direction.

            • Mynydd

              So what is on offer from UKIP? What I have heard is, £25 to visit your GP in a privatised NHS. A flat tax rate so the those at the top get a massive tax cut whereas those at the bottom get a massive tax rise.

              • Colonel Mustard

                I don’t know, You should ask them. What is on offer from Welsh Labour and what have they actually achieved in office?

        • Fergus Pickering

          A Tory, like myself, who is going to vote UKIP at the next General Election, is one who thinks there are more important things than who is ging to be the next Prime Minister. We want Cameron to fall, Cameron and his mates.

          • telemachus

            Fergus you are perfect
            A non thinking Tory rightist who will split the vote in Tory marginals to fulfil Ashcroft’s predictions
            Reasonable folk are relying on you

            • Fergus Pickering

              Don’t worry, Tele. Cameron will come into like. The spectacular uselessness of your front bench will come to the aid of everone else. Milibum is the Tories’ friend

              • telemachus

                Folks smile when they see Ed Balls
                He puts a human face on politics
                They trust Andy Burnhan
                And Yvette is the perfect competent woman

                • Alexsandr

                  You confuse people smiling with people suffering form wind, I feel.
                  And Burnham should be in Jail for Stafford, and Milliband is damaged for supporting the paedophile apologists, the Dromeys.
                  labour25.com

                • telemachus

                  We have moved on from the 1970’s
                  Even the most ardent rightist now accepts that the Mail publicity was triggered to deflect concerns about the Rock link to the PM

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Son of Communitht is taking his party back to the 1970s. His facile “sticking it” to corporate management is straight out of the obtuse 1970s union song book. Heaven knows we have a problem with corporate exploitation in this country but it requires something a bit more imaginative than the student version of Scargill in Foot’s donkey jacket.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Yeah, right.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  I smile at him for all the wrong reasons and my smile often ends in a guffaw and expletives.

            • Alexsandr

              Ashcroft is a muppet. He hears talk of UKIP, stick his fingers in his lugoles and sings ‘la la la cant hear you’

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Well, well, burning our boats, are we?

            😉

            • Fergus Pickering

              That’s too intellectual for me.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Yeah, it’s fun to just throw intellectualism to the wind and go full tilt boogie, ain’t it?

        • Weaver

          Don’t even need the seats. At 7% in a GE and we can deprive Cameron of his political life. I’m pretty confident we’ll get more than that now.

          Then we might get a proper conservative party with the conviction to deal with the economic mess socialism has landed us with.

    • BarkingAtTreehuggers

      Why rely on betting anyway? There is no UKIP in Scotland – they don’t exist. UKIP cannot unite when UKIP don’t exist. All bets are irrelevant.

      • Colin

        The point I was trying to make is, that if UKIP can sustain momentum, everything changes.

        • BarkingAtTreehuggers

          Yes, I would suggest we got that in your first comment, my point is that you are running out of time. The Glasgow Games begin in two months time.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …wait, you’re breaking out ANOTHER of your sockpuppets, lad?

    • sarah_13

      Anything that keeps Miliband thinking he’s in with a chance I suppose is a good thing- he won’t be removed as leader which given that absolutely anyone else leading the party would mean labour would win the next election easily must be a sort of positive for the tories.

      • Kitty MLB

        No Ed Miliband and Ed Balls.Gordon Browns two
        backroom boys must stay in place.
        Regardless of the wish to give the Lib Dem led government (which is part of the problem) a bloody
        nose.It I hope will remind the voters of the reality
        that if Labour get back in we shall see the 3 horsemen
        of the apocalypse riding across the heavens.
        And to my fellow disgruntled Conservatives I would
        say Cameron was a naive fool to go into coalition,
        and he has made some wrong choices but hr
        most certainly will defeat the evil that is socialism.
        And Conservatives should know its about country
        first and stop Labour …

        • telemachus

          Interesting is it not that after 2 short days labour has replaced Ukip as the bogeyman
          We know what bogeymanisation did to the racists on Thursday
          I am hoping and praying for UKIP to top the polls in the news tomorrow
          *
          Then as I said on Thursday the proper politicians will ensure the public focus back on the real issues
          Not like Osborne yesterday pandering respect to the racists

          • Kitty MLB

            I am bored rigid with this EU election.
            Some are treating it like a general election
            when parties are under scrutiny and capable
            ministers are chosen. I want to leave the EU
            and know that only my party will offer that.
            But maybe others want your party to win
            and no EU vote.But I reluctantly agree with
            you.Cameron and Osbourne need to pull
            their socks up.

            • telemachus

              On the contrary
              Osborne is doing great things if yesterday’s media is to be believed
              Further every smug Cameron and indeed Clegg smile is another tranche of votes for the forces of reason

              • Kitty MLB

                We seem to be having a early morning buzzathon again little wasp.Socialism
                has infected everypart of our society
                And its taking time to deal with.
                And with a Conservative majority with
                Conservative capable and experienced
                MP’s who do not manipulate and play
                games we will beat you.
                After all its about country before party,
                do you get that, sweetie.

                • telemachus

                  I get that patricians like yourself and George wish to keep resources unto themselves
                  Which is why we need to return to Socialism

          • Adam Carter

            Again you avoid any policy points and just throw in your leftist slur of ‘racist’.
            What is a ‘racist’?
            Somewhere I read that a ‘racist’ is a white person who disagrees with a Progressive. That pretty much sums it up.

            • telemachus

              It in this context is a party that makes racial minorities feel uncomfortable or threatened by words or actions
              *
              Ring a bell

              • Alexsandr

                what racial minorities,
                Poles, Roumanians and bulgarians are not races. they are nations. You confuse racism and xenophobia. Uneducated lefties -Cuh!

                • telemachus

                  UKIP lumps all minorities together
                  They mention Romanians
                  And put huge billboards mentioning just immigrants in communities with Asian minorities
                  The threat and fear are there
                  This is how racists operate

                • Alexsandr

                  do you actually know any people of immigrant stock? The ones at my work say there has been too much immigration. one has Jamaican parents, the other Indian..Let us squash the idea that all non whites are lefties that shout ‘waysist’ at the slightest opportunity.

                • telemachus

                  Of course this is the response of previous immigrants to incomers
                  What we refer to are the threats and implicit threats

                • Alexsandr

                  what threats and implicit threats. you are making stuff up. Nowhere has UKIP said immigrants should leave the UK

                • telemachus

                  Implicit

                • Daidragon

                  It’s a shame they have forgotten that people like you were demonising their parents and grandparents when they migrated to the UK.

                • Alexsandr

                  I think you need to be careful. people like me agreed the limited immigration before 1997 was acceptable. What was wrong was the open doors policy during the last government. I think most intelligent people see the difference between managed immigration and letting millions in.

                • Daidragon

                  People like you moaned about the Jews in the 30’s, West indians in the 50’s, Indians in the 70’s. All coming over ere and stealing our pizzas. Or summit. Eastern Europeans are just the next group of ‘outsiders’ for xenophobes to obsess about.

                • Alexsandr

                  I have reported your comment as offensive. As far as I am convcerned you posts no longer exist. People like you should be ignored.

              • Colonel Mustard

                I feel uncomfortable and threatened by what you say about the English. That makes you a racist.

                • telemachus

                  I come from a working class Northern Town and it never occurred to me that foreign folk would enhance my life
                  *
                  Then on my staircase I met and made lifelong friends with a bloke from Trinidad, an Asian from Kenya and a seconded diplomat from one of the far east countries.
                  I understood how they could enrich our lives. Only later did I become aware of the economic benefits. And later the reinvigoration of England by those from afar(Oh yes Keith Joseph started it but it was incomplete without the migrations).
                  *
                  I detest the little engladers who try to deny my future

                • Alexsandr

                  why live here then if you hate it so much.

                • telemachus

                  I love my evolving country

          • Mike

            Labour will remain bogeymen for a very long time as we’re still paying for their economic mismanagement. Those are real facts and not like the unfounded smears against UKIP.

            The Tory party has reverted to form, AKA the Original Nasty Party, Labour is still the Financially Inept Party and the LibDumbs are the Very Nasty Party who prostitute themselves on the EU altar and harbour pedophiles. The facts support those descriptions of the LibLabCon artists !

            As for the real issues, they haven’t gone away and they are still the economy, self determination and mass immigration.

            UKIP is the ONLY party proposing an Australian or American style of immigration (and many other countries) where only those of value to the country should be let in. The electorate this week has dispelled that left wing lie that its racist to do this. To achieve this and reduce the unsustainable benefits bill, immigration criteria needs to be changed and leaving the EU is needed to allow us to do it.

            In a nutshell, UKIP’s policies are all intertwined and co-related, leaving the EU gives us self determination to address benefits abuse by everyone, tackle over crowding, remove foreign criminals & Islamic terrorists and fix the overburdened education, health & housing problems. All of these issues are a left wing disease that they brought down on Britain and apart from the deniers of the truth, its not racist to tackle this cancer on the country.

            • telemachus

              ‘their economic mismanagement’

              *
              I totally and utterly refute that
              The magnificent way Brown handled the American generated banking collapse is a textbook study in economics courses throughout the world
              We remain grateful how he led us out of recession giving, in addition Osborne the building blocks for the current economy almost blown when he choked off growth on accession

              • Alexsandr

                dysfunctional Brown left us vulnerable to economic collapse because he believed his own ‘abolished boom and bust’ b0110cks and made no provision for a rainy day. that is the action of a complete financial illiterate. And he was advised by ed b0110cks so he is culpable too.

              • Daidragon

                Spot on.

                • Alexsandr

                  are you telemachus in drag?

              • Inverted Meniscus

                Absolutely barking mad.

              • Mike

                Having been handed a positive cash flow situation by John Majors government, that one eyed Scottish git f***** it up royally by his profligacy and the costs of Labours social engineering programs.

                On both sides of the pond governments looked the other way whilst those financial pimps in banking rewarded themselves for handing out loans to those that couldn’t afford them. Brown should have reined in these banking whores but without them, how could Blair fund his illegal war and bribe the electorate for 3 terms in office.

                You seem to have a very short memory regarding Liam Byrnes famous note left at the treasury for Osborne which said “there’s no money left”. After three terms in office, that was the only truth ever heard from a socialist minister.

                Quite how Brown who bailed the banks out instead of letting market forces prevail (as they should have) and leaving massive debt behind saved the world is beyond everyone other than mental retards from the socialist side who have no grasp of reality.

        • an ex-tory voter

          As yet he has shown no sign of confronting let alone defeating the evil of socialism.

          • Kitty MLB

            Confronting socialism let alone defeating it, is
            a battle within its self. Labour did more then damage our economy, they also damaged the
            moral and social foundations of this country
            as well and after 13 years socialism has infected
            evey part of our society. There has been nothing
            but gerrymandering and caterwaulling from
            the beginning of this parliament.I admit going
            into coalition was a huge mistake and that
            Cameron is a naive easily manipulated fool.
            But we are still living with the consequencies
            Of the last governments policies.
            We are making small steps, they would have
            been bigger without the lib dems and with
            only Conservative policies, I know Conservatives
            rightly want to give Cameron more then a bloody
            nose. But allowing Labour back in will
            be a disaster, you will be giving them the bloody
            nose not Cameron.

            • an ex-tory voter

              I agree with much of what you say, although I don’t believe Cameron is as naive as you think. I see him as part of the problem because at heart he is not a conservative.
              If socialism is to be defeated his party needs a leader who holds and espouses conservative values and who strives to implement policies and to effect societal changes in accordance with those values.
              David Cameron is not a “leader” let alone the leader capable of defeating socialism. But, the reality is that the rest of his party are just as weak because if they were not the knives would have been out long ago.
              Until the party returns to “conservatism” it does not deserve the support of its core voters.
              As for Labour, they will be a disaster for this nation, but I sometimes wonder if that disaster is the price that must be paid if socialism is to be defeated here.

            • Mynydd

              Mr Cameron has been in power for 4 years so we are now living with the consequencies of his governments policies.

              • Kitty MLB

                Well things are improving.ASpot of sunshine
                after the constant thunderstorms.
                Well dohe David Cameron.

              • Colonel Mustard

                Nah, he hasn’t been in power at all. Most of the establishment are now unelected New Labour and he is in coalition with the Lib Dems, a socialist party. He has not had either a parliamentary majority or a budget surplus.

                We have had 4 years of mainly continuation.

              • Inverted Meniscus

                Yes an economy which is growing faster than any other major Western economy, record employment, a declining structural deficit, an improving education system and health care. Imagine where we would be if the Fascist scum of the Labour Party were still on power.

            • Smithersjones2013

              Just as you cannot make omelettes without breaking eggs you cannot make this country sovereign, free and democratic again without breaking Labour and you can’t break Labour in opposition (parties are never at fault in opposition). The only way to break Labour is to let them do their worst in government and feel the anger of the electorate for it. The old adage is true there is no real gain without pain….

              Beyond that voting for the Tories is pointless as they are a trashed and irrevocably broken brand (especially under Cameron) incapable of winning a majority. The sooner the right can move on from them the better.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Cameron is a friend of Blair, probably the ONLY friend the little turd has in Britain.

            • telemachus

              You are probably correct
              This is what happens to revisionists

              • Colonel Mustard

                But you voted for him no less than three times. He was your star then and a new day had dawned, had it not?

              • Kitty MLB

                Who is Milipede a friend of….Oh yes Bonkers
                Brown…but not Balls anymore….which
                is why Balls is trying to steal the crown

                • telemachus

                  He is not

                  The party will turn to him in due course for reinvigoration

                  *

                  You should read some of his great work

                  For example this on Nye Bevan:

                  *

                  First, he was a visionary whose passion and compassion alongside his hard work, persistence and patience, delivered the greatest achievement of Labour in
                  power of the last century – the National Health Service. His vision of healthcare free at the point of use, based on need and not ability to pay, was borne of his own practical experience of hardship in the valleys of south Wales.
                  And now, in its 60th anniversary, securing the NHS true to Nye’s vision is still our greatest responsibility.

                • Smithersjones2013

                  So it was Nye Bevan’s ‘vision’ that damn near bankrupted the country TWICE!

                • global city

                  But Bevin considered himself to be intensely patriotic, in the classic way of understanding it.

                  Nowadays he would be condemned by the herd/UAF, etc as a fasist/populist/bigotted littleingerlunderandstuff!

                • telemachus

                  Like all Socialists he was an imternationalist

                • global city

                  only in theory and rhetoric, he was not intellectually and emotionally hidebound by obviously stupid dogmas, unlike so many of today’s parasites.

                  He was a proud British patriot and this was the main reason for his rejection of British involvement. Most of his party compatriots were similarly minded. Obsession with the Soviet Union and revolutionary theory was largely left to establishment Tories.

              • Colonel Mustard
        • McRobbie

          I put myself back in the time when cameron had a decision to make whether to find a way to form a government or to leave the balloon brown in place until he was finally forced out. Cameron did the brave and the right thing for the country by trying to find a compromise with the libdems..and it has largely worked as we can see by the recovering economy. A coalition is always a compromise and that shows in some of the equivocation and changes in direction and uncertainty…milie does the same and he isn’t in a coalition, he is the puppet on the string of the unions and has and always will have only one solution to all problems…spend spend spend.

          • Kitty MLB

            A real test is who would you want as a Prime Minister in a
            real crisis, such as a war.
            Cameron was manipulated by the Lib Dems who have behaved dreadfully, constant babysitting.
            This just shows how much we need a Conservative Majority.
            Coalitions are nothing but a compromise and we now know
            that the country was compromised and held to ransom by
            the Lib Dems. Cameron for all his many mistakes is still
            the man who should be PM next May for the sake of this country.

            • Mynydd

              I want a prime minister who doesn’t bomb other countries when their problems are not ours.

            • Wessex Man

              Cameron Cameron in in xcharge of a war, he has been in Libya- that went well didn’t it now on the brink of ciivil war and fanatics in charge.

              No what we need is to stay out of other peoples wars!

              • Kitty MLB

                Oh keep your hair on . I said if we were at war, not someone
                else’s war. No need to pick at things dear..

                • telemachus

                  Hold on
                  I see much in common between Wessex and Mustard
                  Where is your besottedness

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  I see much in common between you and a dose of syphilis.

    • Kitty MLB

      The council elections had a very small turnout,
      UKIP won seats but not one single council full control.
      As for the EU ecections, its hardly the General Election
      where you chose a government to run a country.
      After choosing their manifesto and capable ministers.
      UKIP will win the EU elections, they are about the EU,
      And like the battles in that place.

      • Fergus Pickering

        The council elections had a ibgger turnout than they usually do, Kitty. Farage is the first political star since the blessed Margaret.

        • Kitty MLB

          Oh NIgel Farage is not worthy to be compared
          with Thatcher.He is a star alright, a shooting
          star, they shine brightly and then splat.
          You didn’t win that one.Maybe you should
          have said a asteroid,Fergus.

        • Mynydd

          I don’t want a political star, I want star policies that will improve my standard of living.

          • Colonel Mustard

            How are those “star policies” of Welsh Labour going? Did you tell them what you wanted to?

          • Kitty MLB

            You had better not vote Labour again then,
            or you will be back in that Black Hole,
            in the depths of the burning earths core.

          • Fergus Pickering

            In other words you can be bought

      • Colin

        They never won a council, granted. However, they created carnage up and down the land, for all three legacy parties.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Yes, they are driving the argument, for certain.

    • fathomwest

      Colin, I agree. I usually find the Lord Ashcroft polls interesting but with too many caveats. Like his assertion, often stated by Conservative politicians, that many UKIP voters will return to the Conservatives. I do not see that from the people I speak to. I am sure when the EU voting results are announced- and I must state that it concerns me greatly that the ballot papers have been held ‘somewhere’ since Thursday anything could have occurred?- but when those results come and UKIP are the winners that will change a great deal.
      Will David Cameron really listen, does he really ‘get it’? We shall see. He is the man that lost us the last General Election and he is on course to do the same next year.

  • you_kid

    Let’s remind ourselves of the game plan:

    – lose the EU elections
    – weaken the PM
    – hence lose Scotland
    – hence lose in 2015
    – hence no referendum

    The fruitcakes will be fuming. If stoopidity was a pathologically measurable condition, the reactions to this poll would be a means of measuring it.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …how do we measure the number of your sockpuppets, lad?

    • Alexsandr

      Ukip win the euro elections

      Libladcon are weakened (not least the MEP cash)
      UKIP gain traction
      Ukip get seats in 2014. Lot less limp dems in 2014

  • Agrippina

    I really hope folks vote UKIP. Enrichment in Cambs -Police, in 2009/10 it paid out £809,000 for translation services, an increase from £677,000 in 2008/09, figures released under the Freedom of Information Act reveal.

    In 2007/08 the bill was £540,000 down from the £805,339 in the previous year
    and £715,208 in 2005/06 – just after expansion of the EU in 2004.

    The most commonly translated languages are Eastern European including
    Polish, Czech, Bulgarian, Romanian, Russian, Slovak and Lithuanian, as well as
    French, Arabic, and Urdu.

    Read more: http://www.cambridge-news.co.u
    Tory Sth Cambs Council, still provides translations and interpreters for all
    the scroungers! Even though porky pickles said he would put a stop to that.

    • Kaine

      By what definition is a victim of crime giving a statement a ‘scrounger’?

      • Fergus Pickering

        If he can’t give it in English the he must pay someone to translate for him.This country is not charity for foreigners.

        • Agrippina

          Those figs are for the criminals arrested and subsequently charged, that is why the police have those costs.

          dave said no speak Eng, you can’t find a job & support yourself back you go!

        • Alexsandr

          try reporting a crime in any other european country and expect to speak English. They may have an english speaker available, they may not. If not, its tough luck on you.

        • Kaine

          Great idea. So a rapist who only preyed on poor immigrant women would never be caught because the police wouldn’t pay for an interpreter and the women themselves would be unable to afford it.

          • Fergus Pickering

            What rapist is that, Kaine? You invented him, didn’t you? Naughty, naughty!

            • Kaine

              That’s an example of what could happen under your system. You’re saying that people who don’t speak English to a degree of proficiency where they can give a legal statement should not get justice in Britain. That’s despicable.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Out in the REAL world, as they say, no such person exists. There do exist, in considerable numbers, immigrant muslim men who regularly rape under age white girls. You may have heard of such people. They would also wish, had they the power, to hang gay persons from cranes.Perhaps you do not know this..

    • Kitty MLB

      Vote for UKIP and no pacts. Why in Gods name.
      Yes there are issues with excessive immigration and
      and the EU. But how will UKIP be able to run a country,
      Education, welfare, police, the deficit?
      How would UKIP deal with a crisis and the rest of the world.
      Utter nonsense, UKIP are still growing and are not ready.

      • Michele Keighley

        Are you saying that all UKIP people are as children in this very complicated world? None of them are intelligent enough to grasp the intricacies of politics? That’s a tad patronising of you Kitty.

        The truth is I fear, that even kindergarten children are capable of governing better than the present mob of incompetents. UKIP should have no trouble.

      • Adam Carter

        I expect that between now and the general election UKIP will be broadening their policy statements and putting forward different spokesmen for TV and radio.
        I think they made a bit of a mistake in allowing so much of last week’s campaign to be about immigration, but they do have policies on all the major issues and they need to get those policies into the public consciousness.
        But let us never forget the major point: as long as we are in the EU we are unable to use our votes to remove from office those who make our laws. That is of the utmost importance.

      • Fergus Pickering

        Education. Bring back gramer schools. Welfare. Cut it. Police, do what the great Therese is doing, the deficit, continue to ‘pay it down’ as the stupid phrase is. Being out of the EU will help considerably. OK, that’s sorted. Took me five minutes and the back of an envelope.

        • Alexsandr

          you cant pay down a defecit. you pay down a debt. But you cant pay down a debt until you have no defecit.
          (I suspect Fergus knows this)

          • Fergus Pickering

            Indeed I do, Alexander. I was trying to speak the argot of the uneducated.Perhaps I should desist.

        • Kitty MLB

          If it were another party you’d need to write all that on the back of
          a stamp and send it to Brussels. It might help give them ideas
          for the ‘ new’ manifesto. Agree with Grammar Schools.

        • Weaver

          Hear, hear! A lot of “the right things to do” don’t require great intelligence or education. Just great conviction. That is what is lacking in our current masters.

          • Fergus Pickering

            That’s the stuff, Weaver.

      • Weaver

        I don’t know, Kitty, I have two degrees, IQ and education somewhere in the top decile, higher rate taxpayer, know more economics than Osborne and more about median voter theory than Ashcroft. And I vote UKIP.

        I’m pretty sure I could make a better fist of ministerial office than the current shower, let alone the opposition benches.

        • Kitty MLB

          Its so distasteful when one feels a need to
          brag about their education. Others might
          find modesty far more adequate.
          Ask sainted Nigel Farage for a job then,
          all politicians need all the help they can muster.

          • Weaver

            Bragging would be when I told you exactly where I was in the top decile. 😉

            But there’s no need for unpleasantness; just saying we’re not all knuckle-dragging neanderthals here in UKIP. We may actually be better equipped for some of these portfolios than the current managerial class which govern us.

            • Kitty MLB

              Always assume you are under attack, don’t
              you…Its a kipper thing.

              • Weaver

                That’s two ad hominems to zero, Kitty. Please stop.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              No “may” about it. The Cameroons are unqualified poshboys. It really wouldn’t take much to replace them.

  • WatTylersGhost

    “Two thirds of Ukippers think David Cameron is the best person to be Prime Minister”. But only for the next year. Yes and we also want Ed Milliband to stay as leader of the Labour Party. Two complete losers running the two “big” parties is just the help UKIP needs – thank you.

    • Hello

      When it comes to Ukip, I think “we” is a fairly fluid concept. “We” the 30-odd percent that voted for Ukip in the European elections, “we” the 17-percent that voted Ukip in the local elections, or we this 6-odd percent that intend to vote Ukip in the general election?

      “Two complete losers” said the fourth party. To the bigger parties.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …hmmmm, and which jelly-faced poshboy loser is going to have his head mounted on a spike 11.5 months from now, lad?

        • Fergus Pickering

          Perhaps we will need two spkes Or even three.

          • Kitty MLB

            Running around like Attila the Hun will really work.
            Democracy by rolling heads on spikes..

      • WatTylersGhost

        10pm Sunday night – the losers will be known.

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