Coffee House

If you really hate wind farms, David Cameron won’t help you

16 April 2014

2:32 PM

16 April 2014

2:32 PM

The Prime Minister is planning to cap the total number of onshore wind farms in Britain. But what would limiting the number of wind farms to those in existence or already in the planning system mean?

The UK already has 7.1GW worth of turbines spinning away. There are 1.8GW under construction and some 4.3GW approved but not yet built. Once all these are up and running it will bring the total to 12.2GW.

[Alt-Text]


The government plans to install between 11GW to 13GW of onshore wind by 2020. If they were to limit turbines to those built or in the process of building, it would make precisely no difference at all.

And, while we are number crunching, there is a further 8.3GW in the planning system but not yet approved. According to the industry, 1GW is enough to power 535,000 homes.

So, if you really care about wind farms, wouldn’t it be better to make sure they are built in the right place rather than introduce an arbitrary and meaningless cap?

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Show comments
  • BuBBleBus

    Meanwhile the Dutch are going after gas storage for energy security (with the help of investors from Abu Dhabi): http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article1358602.ece

  • AlecM

    At the end of 2015, the lights go out. By how much, we do’t know because it’s dependent on the economic growth and weather. This article is a taster to this economic disaster in waiting, which, if we have a month of -20 deg C in 2016 may kill perhaps upwards of a third of a million people: http://www.thejournal.co.uk/business/business-news/lights-go-out-uk-households-4393081

    So, it ain’t about windmills; they can’t work. Only the coal fired plant can do the heavy lifting until nuclear is ready, and the idiot Davey has set about making that power twice as expensive as needs be. Quite frankly, these green killers should be put on trial for malfeasance in public office.

    • dado_trunking

      Industry experts predict a capacity closures of 25GW by 2016, 40GW by 2020. This has been known for years. Lead-in design and delivery times for nuclear put that technology out of the race.

      http://www.timera-energy.com/uk-power/the-uk-generation-capacity-crunch-in-numbers/

      • AlecM

        There is a solution but it threatens those who, controlling renewables, land and grid prices, have obtained control of much of Europe, the UK in particular. Too many of our politicians have vested interests.

        What people must understand is that renewables, plus in the UK control of workers’ housing, has been aimed at creating a new aristocracy, a return to 18th Century politics with the poor to be herded into cities to die. The Green left is morphing into Fascism.

        • dado_trunking

          You committed two essential errors there.
          A- the Greens are not in power here, yet they call all the shots?
          B- the EU is not in power here either, yet they call all the shots?

          Isn’t it curious how you blame all those not in power for your ills yet those in power you conveniently omit? Last time I looked not a single Greenie profited from wind farms or otherwise. Yeo types did, holders of manorial assets did. So if it is the case that you love obsessing about ‘fascism’, why not at least get the basic facts right?

          • AlecM

            FOE indoctrinated Oxford PPE students now in politics. Tickell indoctrinated Thatcher. WWF set out to become a Corporation with carbon offsets. Greenpeace controls EU energy policy.

            Organic growing, windmills, solar, aristocratic land-owners getting control of grid prices by subsidy farming = Fascism.

            The UK source was the Coventry based Soil Association, set up in 1946 by Mosely’s Blackshirts. Jenks was a friend of Hitler’s Agriculture Minister. The SS ate organic food!

            QED

            • dado_trunking

              Hahaha! Excellent. Did they brush their teeth also with toothpaste? Ban toothpaste! It’s pure fascism.

              • AlecM

                I could bore you with how these people got control of a Midlands district council near Mosley’s family home in the mid 1990s. This was a springboard for Mosley’s Green Ticket replacement with backing from a section of the Aristocracy.

                However, the putative Great Leader’s family were involved in dodgy money making so he was dropped as a candidate for Parliament in 1999.

                • dado_trunking

                  A-hahaha! Excellent. More later, please.

                • AlecM

                  Prat

  • Kitty MLB

    Wind farms loathsome rubbish. rather like solar panels( this is England, not Italy
    we hardly get any sun) They make these atrocious monstrosities in the Nether/Much
    Wallop in Hampshire. I wish I could go there and tie them to a few pointless Lib Dems
    and just let them free- aiming for Brussels.
    They are a way to manipulate, for energy companies to become richer and the customer to become poorer. And a terrible blight on our beautiful English landscape.
    And they don’t even work on very windy days–pointless.

  • itdoesntaddup

    Perhaps the author could do with an introduction to the impact of wind farms on grid stability. The proportion of power provided by wind does matter.

    http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/is-the-uk-grid-approaching-instability/

  • Wessex Man

    They, the people who own the land are making a fortune out of all of us, try looking for a few connections to our worthy Government!

    • dado_trunking

      Who owns the land in Germany and Denmark? Why no opposition there?
      We quickly gather this IS about who owns the market and who sponges the subsidies, not about the technology and whether it delivers what it was designed to deliver.

      • Wessex Man

        It doesn’t and Solar is just as bad!

        • Kitty MLB

          Those panels are pointless. How much sun do we actually have. Its out today but you can wager it will disappear during the summer as it always does.

          • Alexsandr

            the ones that make electric are expensive and use a lot of rare minerals to make. But the ones that make hot water are worth it. But you cant use them easily with an efficient combi boiler (that dont have a hot water tank)

        • dado_trunking

          Apologies mate but all the kit I use works.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …the bong, you mean?

            • dado_trunking

              Tell me, you have never tried growing ganja on a UKIP MEP electricity allowance of £60/m2/a? The funds would amply compensate for all the bother including, you know, baksheesh for officials and somesuch.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …sorry, lad, but 10 words in and I had to quit. It’s never worth a gamble with you socialist envirowhackos, I find.

                • dado_trunking

                  What are you, a closet fruitcake wacko? Is that the opposite of the above, given you never get out much into the ‘environment? We really have no idea what your gibberish would amount to in the real world, out there, in the environment.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …you better change your bong water, lad.

  • HookesLaw

    The problem for people opposed to wind farms is the scientific establishment which advises the government. Until it is exposed we are stuck with them.

    • Alexsandr

      no. there is a lobby who like greenery cos they make money out of it. Ask Tim Yeo.

      • dado_trunking

        What’s wrong with making a profit?

        • Alexsandr

          because its a government made profit. taking money from householders for dodgy green technology.

          • dado_trunking

            That is the first time I have heard anyone assert ‘the government’ was making a profit on green crap. No they are not. Try again, be a bit harder to yourself.

        • itdoesntaddup

          Wind farms harvest subsidies. They do not make a profit.

          • dado_trunking

            Nor does Didcot, nor does Grangemouth, nor would Hinkley C. What I am saying is you fail to go compare. Not very clever, that.

            • itdoesntaddup

              Setting the rules in such a way as to make coal unprofitable is merely state and EU dictatorship, not free competition. Limiting the hours of burn and imposing arbitrary taxes screws up efficient markets.

              • dado_trunking

                Perhaps, but you fail to grasp the reason for the upgrade. Most things in life are subsidised – your military is (entirely, 100% of it), so are space programmes. Did I understand you correctly when you asserted subsidie were bad? Are they still ‘bad’ now that you know more?

                • itdoesntaddup

                  There is a difference between paying for something out of taxes (e.g. the NHS, which we might pay for out of formal insurance instead with no dramatic difference in cost) and subsidy of highly inefficient activity. Coal costs 50 £/tonne for 6000kcal/kg for 7MWh/tonne quality. That is around 22£/MWh at your choice of 32% efficiency – less than a quarter of the 95£/MWh guaranteed to onshore windfarms or a seventh of the 155£/MWh for offshore ones under Ed Davey’s Expensive Energy Bill.

                  That’s not just bad, it’s appalling.

                • you_kid
                • itdoesntaddup

                  Prices for marginal power (including power shedding) used in system balancing, not prices for contracted supply prior to gate closure. The clue is in the site name – BMreports. BM stands for Balancing Mechanism.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      The problem is you greenie envirowhackoo Camerluvvies, who love windmills and global warmingism kookiness.

  • freethinker14

    How about when the wind is not blowing? What do the 6 million homes that wind Farms power do then?

    • dado_trunking

      You switch on the backup capacity.
      Just like switching on the lights when it gets dark or hanging out your washing when the sun’s out. I admit this is too complex a thing for some and not for everyone.

      • Alexsandr

        so you do the capex to build the windmills. then more capex for backup. why not do the capex once and build a proper power station. Or not close eggborough or didcot.

        • dado_trunking

          I object to plant efficiencies below 32%. Modern USC easily delivers a 50% premium today. When outdated gas plant is also uncompetitive then why would I care?

          • itdoesntaddup

            Levelised cost – which determines the size of our bills – says otherwise.

            • dado_trunking

              ROCs are indeed levelised at an effective price of 0.87p per kWh (until 31 March 2014) and therefore make up less than 6% of your bill (by law).

              The rest are subsidies for fuel poor and upgrades.

              • itdoesntaddup

                That means that they’re marked up at 100% over the wholesale market price of power that gets no ROCs. That’s a massive subsidy. It’s only because as yet they contribute a small portion of generation that this is not so easy to spot. Moreover, “upgrades” hides the massive costs of doubling the grid capacity in a bid to try to handle the consequences of all those windfarms, which should rightly be charged to them, but is instead collected as doubled network charges – and the subsidy for the new long distance lines from Scotland so that their windfarms actually have a market outlet.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Frau Merkel is finding the German sheep are suddenly becoming resistant to such shearing.

                • dado_trunking

                  You need to weight your variables – I have just done that for you: 6% of total cost of product delivered to your front door is 6% of total cost of product delivered to your front door. I would not lose sleep over it.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            You haven’t the slightest clue about what you’re jabbering about, lad.

            • dado_trunking

              It appears neither do you.
              Are you cracker jack #3 in the set of jokers tonight?

              • the viceroy’s gin

                My clients would differ, and they put their money where their mouths are, as opposed to you socialist nutters, who put others’ money where your mouths are.

                • dado_trunking

                  When you socialist nutters run out of your own money you just print more, don’t you? Gambling addicts. You ‘make’ nothing. You need to buy that in from people who do.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …first rule of a socialist nutter:

                  Call everybody else what you yourself are… a socialist nutter.

                • dado_trunking

                  . . . which is what you have been doing for months if not years now?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  … do you even make any sense to yourself, lad?

      • freethinker14

        So this is what? Dirty polluting diesel generators like we are deploying in the UK or something more substantial? If the former then what exactly have we achieved and if the latter then why not simply build the substantial alternative? Why waste money on non-sustainable energy supplies that require further investment to cover calm periods?

        • dado_trunking

          Is everyone a nutcase on this blog? Lord almighty! Who said you HAD TO OPT FOR diesel generators as backup capacity? — Sort yourself out, lads.
          You quick fix lot ”fix it quick, fix it cheap!’ are hilarious.

          • freethinker14

            Are you a politician by any chance? They are pretty good at answering questions with waffle.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …it’s an ignorant and poorly educated socialist nutter that switches nicknames every so often and returns spewing this socialist twaddle, about global warmingism and windmills and so forth.

            • dado_trunking

              Who ‘relies’ on STOR diesel generators as backup? Is this for unexpected nuclear shut down perchance? D’oh!
              Uneducated first timer’s all round night, is it?

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …so then they’re several levels above you socialist nutters, then?

          • Politically Correct

            Well given that nuclear is only ever run flat out and provides the baseload, they are mothballing perfectly efficient coal powered generators, we aren’t allowed to drill for shale gas because of irrational protests from the greenies, we have run out of North Sea gas because of failure to invest in the fields as a result of government tax grabs, we don’t have much else left to fall back on but a bunch of diesel powered generators, hidden away in old quarries and government owned land, which cost an absolute fortune to keep on standby, a direct cost of the wind turbine foolishness.

  • athelwulf

    From an American web site:

    ‘While it may be tempting to resort to numbers of homes as a way to convey how much power a plant will generate, in the end it’s often not very accurate, nor really all that clear to most readers.’ Thus 1 MW might be said to power 1000 homes, but alternatively it may only power 250.

    Lets assume Louise Gray is working with nameplate or installed capacity for wind turbines. That is not the same as output. Burton Wold Wind Farm in Northamptonshire, for example, has an installed capacity of 20MW. But it’s output was only 25% of its potential in 2008. This is the capacity factor – the ratio of its actual output over a period of time, to its potential output if it were possible for it to operate at full nameplate capacity indefinitely. [Wikipedia].

    This afternoon wind is generating 2.27GW of electricity or 6.39% of total UK demand.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But in December 2013 wind power generated 10% of our electricity

    http://www.renewableuk.com/en/news/press-releases.cfm/2014-01-02-record-breaking-month-for-wind-energy

    • HookesLaw

      How much doies it take to power Farage’s office?

      Of course UKIP are against wind farms
      https://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/keeping-it-in-the-family-dartmouth-style/

      • dado_trunking

        answer: 50
        50 no. heads with a net contribution to the EU of £60 pa.
        Would it be wrong to highlight that it is highly unlikely the Ukip MEP Dartmouth would be one of them?

      • Alexsandr

        Good. they are a poor investment.
        and have you considered the energy needed for the manufacture, transport construction and maintenance? Bear in mind they sit on a big concrete base and concrete is very environmentally unfriendly.

        • dado_trunking

          Oh, we have a real environmentalist amongst us.
          Your prayers have been answered:
          http://www.gizmag.com/timbertower-wooden-wind-turbine/25007/

          • the viceroy’s gin

            What prayer would that be, you technically illiterate muppet?

            • dado_trunking

              Komm nach Hannover and don’t forget your camera, muppet. Your gob will be smacked with regards to what real Dipl.Ings can come up with.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                No, we’ll need a translator for that impenetrable gibberish, lad. You’re just as incoherent under this new nickname as the last 1/2 dozen.

                • dado_trunking

                  The loons come in threes. You are no.3.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …wait, so there’s 3 of you nutters now? So is there a goat for each one of you?

      • Wessex Man

        Yea, we’re in favour of nuclear energy as well and are not scared of saying so unlike your lot.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …except it’s far too expensive and should be avoided if possible.

          • dado_trunking

            . . . except that that would mean you just performed a u-turn.
            All very well, we like u-turns – they put you firmly in the club of ‘Camerluvvies’ or indeed that Ukip loon who keeps having to rewrite his energy pamphlet. Hilarious, either way.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …except you’re a clueless muppet and have no idea what you’re jabbering about.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …and so’s Dave’s immediate family, eh laddie?

    • athelwulf

      So, in brief, wind was generating 2.27GW on Tuesday afternoon, not the 7.1GW Louise Gray was posting.

    • flaxdoctor

      According to Gridwatch that magical figure of 10% in December 2013 involved wild fluctuations from 0.68% of demand on 1/12 to, briefly, over 20% on 21/12. Result, one badly destabilised grid.

      Meanwhile, during the coldest spell of winter in 2012, from 23 Jan -13 Feb, wind produced a mean 2.2% of demand, plumbing the depths of 0.06%.

      I’ll repeat that – 0.06% of demand. On the coldest nights of the year. This is beyond pathetic. Wasting billions on this worthless mediaeval technology is not only economically and scientifically absurd, it’s morally bankrupt.

      • Alexsandr

        this is the trouble with wind and solar. it fails when it is most needed.
        what is worst is an anticyclone over the country in February. Short days with 100% cloud, and long cold nights, and hardly any wind. And they stick around for weeks. Look at feb 2012. thats why we need serious 24/7 baseload generation. and soon.

  • Smithersjones2013

    Of course he won’t he doesn’t want to upset his father-in-law……..

    • dado_trunking

      You criticise the local ownership ratio here? Why not own one yourself just like that Ukip MEP?

      • Wessex Man

        Which Ukip MEP would that be then?

    • HookesLaw

      or Lord Dartmouth.

      • Wessex Man

        Come on then Hooky don’t be cryptic, tell us exactly all about lord Dartmouth, I look forward to your allegations.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …is he a multiply accused rapist? The Camerluvvies love those types. As I understand, they’re having a welcome home party for one, sometime soon here. The stalwart Camerluvvies are never to be caught short of multiply accused rapists, you may depend.

          • Wessex Man

            still waiting for this slimeball Hooky to have the courage of his propaganda, much like all Tory filth he has no basis for what he’s saying, he really is a gift to UKip.

        • dado_trunking

          None of what Denialingpole ever concocts ever turns out to be true, so this one is a real amuse gueule either way.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …so you’re doing the amuse gueule with the goat tonight, lad?

            • dado_trunking

              Nah, I just love how the fascists’ politics play out – Prof Congdon didn’t clean behind his fridge one night, ka-booom, sacked he found himself the next morning. What a joy to behold, either way.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …well, you socialist nutters are all fascists, so yeah you’d definitely enjoy how that all plays out.

    • Homsac

      Smithersjones2013. You know not what you are talking about. Wind turbines are one of the most ‘efficient’ forms of clean energy. The theoretical maximum limit (Betz limit) for taking energy out of a
      body of moving fluid that is not enclosed within a pipe is 59.3%. Modern turbines are capable of converting roughly 50-55% of the energy contained in the wind into electrical energy. Not bad, eh?
      Onshore turbines produce cheaper electricity than offshore turbines, solar photovoltaics (PV), new build nuclear, wave power and tidal power. This is an indisputable fact and a consequence of its effectiveness and maturity.
      You can’t control Russian gas and Saudi Oil any more than you can control the wind. Time to stop living in the dark ages and move into the 21st century.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        That’s all bunk, lad.

        It doesn’t matter how efficient your windmill contraptions are, if the wind doesn’t blow. And it’s that non blowing condition that drives the inefficiency of your windmill contraptions, not your wonderfully imagined “theoretical maximum limit”.

        Windmills are a waste, an inefficient waste. They suck the cash and vitality from the People. They are a pestilence.

        • Homsac

          Call it bunk all you like, ‘non blowing’ has nothing to do with efficiency. Fact is, you can’t control energy sources which rely on imported fuel and you also can’t control when/how people use electricity, so the ‘flaw’ that you lot wrongly insist on calling ‘inefficiency’ is inherent in any electricity system and not exclusive to renewable energy.

          If you have enough renewables of different types combined with energy storage then you can have a reliable, totally domestic and naturally replenishing energy system than doesn’t harm the environment. But you’re right, it sounds like a pestilence to me too.

          100% renewable electricity is technically feasible and if you talk to anyone who knows anything about the subject, they will agree, unless they don’t in fact know as much as they think.
          You anti wind farm lot really do love a good emotive adjective, much more than actually doing some research.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Non blowing has everything to do with efficiency, and your windmills are inefficient. If they were inefficient, we’d use them because they’d be cost effective. They’re not. They are a wasteful pestilence, and not even close to fossil fuels in efficiency, lad.

            Energy storage is extremely costly, lad .That’s in addition to the extreme cost of your greenie madness itself. It also harms the environment, but you obviously are technically illiterate and couldn’t possibly know how that’s so.

            I can talk to those who know about these subjects, but that wouldn’t include you, lad.

  • foxoles

    ‘1GW is enough to power 535,000 homes.’

    Not if there’s not enough wind – and, conversely, not if there’s *too much* wind, when the turbines have to be shut down for safety reasons.

    You can also make electricity from potatoes (hence the Science Museum’s famous potato clock), but I wouldn’t recommend covering the country in those, either, even if they are in ‘approved’ places 😉

    • dado_trunking

      You are right. 1,800kWh would not power a home here – more like double that making it merely 250,000 homes. When the wind occurs is irrelevant as the network balances out supply and should have the capability of bringing backup/STOR capacity online wherever required. This is not rocket science as weather is predictable on a 30min/60min lead-in time scale.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        The network doesn’t balance out supply, no matter how many times you change your nickname and spew that envirowhacko nonsense, lad.

        How’s the goat?

        • dado_trunking

          Of course it does – we currently suck in 7% from France and Holland. Because we can.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Of course it doesn’t, because it can’t.

            But you envirowhackos will have to spend some time in the dark, to learn what the knowledgeable already know.

            • dado_trunking

              Ahhhh bless. No technical knowledge whatsoever, never mind ability.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …just a bit longer ’til you socialist envirowhackos spend some time in the dark, and then we can begin your educational process.

                • dado_trunking

                  Did you know your lot had yet another new economics spokesperson, given that Ukip members appear to have a natural affinity to windmills? I suggest a logo redesign is overdue: purple windmill on yellow background.

                  That would be a good avatar . . .

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …what are you blathering about now, lad?

      • itdoesntaddup

        You have nicely demonstrated a complete lack of understanding. 1GW is a measure of power – i.e. a billion Joules per second. 1KWh is a unit of energy, i.e. 3.6 million Joules. Power consumption of the average household is perhaps of the order of 3-4MWh per year, or somewhat under 500W on average. But when dinner is being cooked, the children’s muddy clothes washed for the morning, and an electric fire is boosting the heat in the living room with the TV on on a cold winter’s evening, consumption may soar to 15kW or more. Meanwhile the average output of a 1 GW windfarm is of the order of 200-250MW. At times when the wind is light it is consuming power to keep the blades turning and prevent uneven bearing wear.

        • dado_trunking

          We know there are consumption peaks, thanks. We know that wind turbines don’t supply electricity to ANY homes when the wind does not blow, thanks. We know that installed capacity is not output, thanks.
          We know that once you add up consumption per household pa you arrive at a figure, thanks. We know that when you add up all power generated by renewables pa you also arrive at a figure, thanks.

          The rest is addressed by adjusting the grid to real time demand with backup generation by conventional means, thanks.

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Alternatively, we could spend the money wasted on wind turbines on reliable energy generation such as coal, gas and nuclear. I notice that the Germans are now building massive new power stations that will burn lignite. No doubt they will keep banging on about green energy but windmills do not get BMWs etc built at a competitive price.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            “The rest is addressed by adjusting the grid…”

            .

            …and do the socialist nutter faeries help with that?

  • Alexsandr

    how much do they make when its not windy? How much of the time do they created the amount of energy you quote?

    • telemachus

      Mattereth not
      It is all renewable

      • Alexsandr

        mattereth a lot. their prohibitive cost is added to our leccy bills. especially those who can ill afford it. Is a windmill worth a pensioner dying of hypothermia?

        • telemachus

          We are about to run out of gas and coal fired capacity
          And Nuclear has been delayed by shilly shallying
          Less chance of hypothermia if there is some renewable power to plug the gap

          • Alexsandr

            we are running out of coal fired capacity because we have closed stations like Didcot for no good reason that stupid EU regs. CLosing capacity with no plan for replacement is just stupid, and putting security of supply at risk. Eggborough may go too

            • telemachus

              The plan includes renewables that you seem not to value
              It is just as good power

              • Alexsandr

                but its not available 24/7, just when the weather is right. What do we do when we have a winter anticyclone for days on end. no wind, short cloudy days and very cold? Thats why we need proper baseload reliable power stations.

            • dado_trunking

              So what? That’s Sixties technology. SIXTIES!

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …how would you possibly know, you muppet?

                • dado_trunking

                  I know nothing at all, haven’t you previously asserted that and countered it with hard facts? Oh hang on … you didn’t. You just went off on your usual triade which so far amounts to a grand total of Σ=0. I am not holding my breath . . .

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …you’re not holding your breath because that would require sentient thought, which is beyond you, muppet.

        • dado_trunking

          Unbelievable dumbfounding hearsay – when you switch your heating on the lights come on too? You need to get that fixed, pronto.

          • Alexsandr

            try going into a household with teenage kids. they all come in, kids range round the house turning lights on but failing to turn them off while mum opens the fridge and freezer to get stuff out, and turns the oven on to make tea. All the phones and tablets etc go on charge, telly on, computer on. Now thats quite a spike. its how people live.

            • dado_trunking

              Windmills don’t HEAT homes, d’oh!
              If they did in your home then you need to get that fixed, pronto.

              • Alexsandr

                so people dont have storage heaters or electric fires then? some live where there is no gas.

                • dado_trunking

                  If that is so, then why not take advantage of one of the cheapest prices for electricity (incl. tax) in Northern Europe?
                  Your home is single glazed and uninsulated? Tough! This is Northern Europe – why not follow Owen Paterson’s line and adapt?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Heating a single glazed home with wind power is nonsense –

                  Fixed that for you, ya’ muppet.

  • brossen99
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