Coffee House

David Cameron: Trust me to change EU, not Ukip

10 April 2014

6:35 PM

10 April 2014

6:35 PM

David Cameron launched his party’s European and local elections campaign in Manchester today. After weeks of polarised debate between Nick and Nigel, the PM had a task in suggesting that there could be some nuance between In and Out which involves a bit of shake-it-all-about. He repeated his line that both the Lib Dems and Ukip took an ‘extremist’ stance on the EU, saying:

‘Looking at the other parties, there are effectively two extremist camps. One says: “we love the European Union.” The other says: “we hate the European Union.” One says: “we want things to stay the same.” The other says: “let’s just walk away from the EU.” But in all this – there are three words they are missing, three words that sum up everything we are about in Europe. Britain’s. National. Interest. British jobs. British opportunities. British livelihoods.

‘And our argument is – you don’t maximise those interests by saying everything’s fine in Europe, you don’t maximise those interests by walking away from Europe, you get the best for Britain by rolling up your sleeves and fighting for real change in Europe.’

Cameron needs to convince voters that the Conservative party really can bring about change in Europe – and, as he admitted during a phone-in on Radio Norfolk earlier, he needs to convince them to jolly well get out and vote.

MPs will be returning to their constituencies for recess, wondering what the fall-out will be from the Maria Miller debacle. Some, like Jeremy Lefroy, have issued statements saying she should have gone sooner, which is surely an attempt to distance themselves from the snouts-in-the-trough accusations they fear they’ll face on the doorstep. It will be interesting to see how hard they feel it’s hitting the European election campaigns, regardless of how persuasive their party leader is when he says that Ukip ‘can’t change a thing in Europe and asks whether there is ‘anyone you would trust less than a group of Ukip MEPs?’. Tonight the Standard carries a poll showing support for Nigel Farage’s party hit record levels during the Miller row.

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Show comments
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  • Nicholas_Keen

    People don’t join UKIP because they trust it to change Europe, they join UKIP because they want out of Europe.

    Why is wanting self-governance and independence for your country an extreme position? Cameron is the most dishonest and manipulative PM since Harold Wilson.

  • beverley7

    A 2017 referendum will never happen anyway, as a result of the EU timetable, even if, in the most unlikely event wins the 2015 GE. Cameron is a leader of the not the Conservative anyway, take note, activists, or is it swivel eyed loons.

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    • Wessex Man

      Hooky! please note!

  • Two Bob

    Lets roll up our sleeves and hug a cast iron hoodie in the name of the big society. It is the only way to win the global race…..

    • Colonel Mustard

      and it’s the right thing to do.

    • Wessex Man

      or the boat race!

  • jamesbarn

    Cameron is in an utter panic and will say anything in the hope it might get UKIP supporters to return. Firstly he cannot discriminate against any particular group of immigrants so any action he takes MUST apply to ALL immigrants and possibly UK citizens. Failure to do so would be deemed racist. Those from the EU have a legal right to all benefits available to our own citizens. Secondly the Children’s Act would make it illegal not to offer accommodation to families regardless of where they come from. Thirdly and something I am sure he will evade in his next speech is the fact that if he makes social housing unavailable for families he MUST put families up in the private sector for which the tax payer will be funding. Both Merkle and Barroso have already said that re-negotiation wont happen. Stand by for yet another speech of useless propaganda and phoney sound bites. Remember the CAST IRON GUARENTEE.
    UKIP was right all along.

    All power, each Tyrant, every Mob
    Whose head has grown too large
    Ends by destroying its own job
    And works its own discharge

    The Benefactors :- Rudyard Kipling

  • Full Name

    David Campbell Bannerman MEP on the right of the picture (clapping) evidently does not believe Cameron: “David Campbell Bannerman has published:-

    ‘The Ultimate Plan B: A Positive Vision of an independent Britain OUTSIDE the European Union’ booklet.”

    http://www.dcbmep.org/the-ultimate-plan-b-a-positive-vision-for-britain/

    *clap-clap* Cameron.

  • Full Name

    Don’t take your eyes off the target: Farage on Article 50

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPAy_2BBvmM

    Cameron, Clegg and Miliband will use ALL their tricks and cons to distract you.

  • JoeDM

    No more British car number plates if the EU has its way !!!!

    • anyoldiron

      I have refused to buy a new car that has the EU emblem on it. I think you will find that NEW Car Showrooms will soon sell you a car with the Number Plates exactly as you wish. Do not put a deposit on a car until you see the Number plates are exactly what YOU want.

  • foxoles

    If Cameron is able to change the EU, why hasn’t he already done so?

  • edward

    Cameron is already finished – fact. In fact even Osborne now looks competent in comparison.

  • suquman

    Let’s hear the debate of the candidates for European Commission President! Please support my petition calling on the BBC to hold a televised debate of the leading candidates for the European Parliament and for Commission President. Add your name on Change.org at http://iitm.be/eucomdeb

  • Herman_U_Tick

    Gt Britain 1914
    A single market England,Scotland,Wales, Ireland — wonderful

    But the Irish realised that this ‘single market’ was a sham which
    concealed measures guaranteed to prevent the Irish from achieving their
    just potential – to keep them down.

    So they fought to get out.

    Eventually, fighting was succeeded by negotiations
    The Irish tried to argue for ‘reform’ of the (irreformable) British Empire.
    They failed, just as Mr. Cameron will fail with the EU (but which is worse??)

    The Irish chose to go their own way,
    even though it meant being less well off economically

  • jamesbarn
  • jamesbarn
  • jamesbarn
  • Smithersjones2013

    Didn’t someone tell Cameron that such jokes can only be delivered on the morning of the 1st April…..

    How many times does our thick headed dull witted Prime Minister need to be told the Trust Me I’m A Politician” schtick never works (given Blair flogged it to death).

    Frankly given Cameron’s abysmally dishonest record on the EU, the Tories should have treated these Euros as they are treating the Scottish Independence referendum and kept Cameron locked in some cellar in Downing Street. The very sight of such a duplicitous Europhiliac (let alone his insulting mealy~mouthed pleadings) is an insult to British patriots and Eurosceptics everywhere….

  • Tom Tom

    ROFL

  • Lady Magdalene

    Still pushing the completely discredited “EU = jobs” line, I see. Cameron obviously doesn’t understand that China, India, Japan, Canada, Australia, USA and dozens of other countries don’t need to be in the EU to trade with it.
    Not the sharpest tool in the box, is he? The EU is a political union, not a Free Trade Zone.
    There is no third way between Sovereign, independent and self-governing and membership of the EU which means government by an unelected, unaccountable foreign supra-national treaty organisation.
    This is about “Who governs Britain.” Not buying and selling widgets. The EU has already made it perfectly clear that it will not fundamentally change the Treaties. There will be NO significant change to our relationship – because the Federalists and kommissars do not intend giving up any of the power they have painstakingly accrued.
    It’s IN or OUT – as it’s always been, In that respect, both Farage and Clegg are being honest. Cameron is still trying to sell a lie.

  • Frank

    Heavens, this is the best Lynton Crosby can come up with?
    Secondly, how are we doing on all the promised sanctions and visa bans for prominent Russians???

  • Jimmy R

    The only way to save Britain from being swallowed whole and digested into the United States of Europe as a subservient state is to get out and to get out soon.
    For the last four decades I have heard lie after lie after lie. The first and by far the biggest was that it just a European Economic Community to assist the member States to more easily trade with one another. We were assured it would not affect our trade with the outside world especially our trade with the Commonwealth or the way our industry operated. Even worse was the lie that the EEC was not, and had no intention of becoming, at any stage, a political entity.

    Since then there have been more lies claiming time after time ‘just this one last step and then there will be no more’. The truth is that the EUSSR has in the past, is now and will continue in the future to march determinedly on and on to the destination decided on by the Brussels Eurocrats which is a fully integrated Europe, controlled from Brussels with the current Nations either forced to simply force the laws ordered by the Brussels Kremlin or be divided into Regions with new boundaries creating mixed nationalities eliminating the countries of Europe as they have been known and used for centuries.

    If anything hinders the relentless march of the Brussels Eurocrats towards their ultimate aim then they will stop and mark time for a period until circumstances have been manipulated to enable them to march on again. Should the pressure be sufficient then the Eurocrats will take a step back, to pacify the people, and then march on again towards their intended destination. When they are forced to stop they simply use the time to find ways to create a deception to distract attention whilst they quietly keep moving forward.

    Cameron, if he is still there, may well be thrown a few concessions which he can use to wave about for the benefit of the people declaring it had been signed by him and whichever of the various EUSSR Presidents (does anybody know how many there are or what useful purpose they actually serve?) is appropriate claiming ‘Success in our time’ and basking smugly in his apparent success until, after a very short period of time, it is all swept away trampled under the boot heels of the relentless march of the Eurocrats.

  • paulus

    I thought Alan Partrige worked at radio Norfolk, I bet that interview was comedy gold… Ican just hear him now.. well prime Minister do you regret the ban on sausage meat, no one can take a shotgun out in the morning and kill the sausage meat. For generations Norfolk folk have laxitated them selfs over an communal pit, stretched their arms and then hunted sausages found in abundance. I would love to see him talk his way out of it.

  • McClane

    Where’s telemachus?

    • Wessex Man

      gone for a lie down.

  • McClane

    The last person to say ‘British jobs’ was Gordon Brown. That worked.

  • Conway

    “Britain’s. National. Interest”? If the EU has its way there will be no national interests at all. Written on the wall in the EU Parliament’s Visitors Centre are the words: “National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times… The only final remedy for this supreme and catastrophic evil of our time is a federal union of the peoples…”. The only way to preserve Britain’s national interest is to leave the EU before it’s too late. Cameron is all for staying in. Says it all, really.

    • dado_trunking

      A Lord Lothian quote?

      Is he Deutsch?

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …better for you socialist nutters if he is, eh lad?

  • Freeborn John

    The relationship between UKIP and the Conservative party is the same as that between the car industry and horse industry. One needs to replace the other as rapidly as possible if we are to be a successful, prosperous self-governing nation. Don’t vote for the past ever again.

    • Makroon

      Strange that, because Farage insists he is targetting the “working class betrayed by Labour”, with considerable success.
      However, his self-appointed spokespeople on here never mention Labour, they are far too busy pouring bile on Cameron.

      • Wessex Man

        and, the working classes voted in their millions for Thatcher.

      • saffrin

        Something to do with the article I suspect.
        What with it being about another one of Cameron’s promises.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …not just pouring bile on Dave, lad… the bile is for all you Camerluvvies.

      • Two Bob

        Is there any real difference?

  • dado_trunking

    We note it’s raving pensioner loonies night.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …you mean “we” as in you and the goat?

  • Two Bob

    Ukip want to LEAVE it not change it!

    Moron.

    Shut up with the ‘roll up your sleeves’ soundbite.

    • HookesLaw

      And UKIP are selling a big lie, because if we left and stayed in the single market there would be no difference
      And if the proposal is to not join the EEA then you would not a vote to leave.

      • Hugh1

        I’ve read a few of your comments. Essentially your view is that everyone who wants the UK not to be part of the EU is a fascist. When the UK has never come within a million miles of voting a fascist party into government? And how many of our EU “partners,” either currently or historically, have such an unblemished record? Now you resort to Gleggy style b/s in your view of the Single Market. Does our membership of the EU mean that the EU regulates trade within the UK and our trade relationships with non-EU states? And will our membership of the EEA alter this position?

      • Wessex Man

        oh dear –

        I have a dream a fantasy
        To help me through the reality
        And my destination makes it worth the while
        Pushing through the darkness still another mile
        I believe in angels
        Something good in everything I see
        I believe in angels
        When I know the time is right for me
        I’ll cross the stream, I have a dram
        I’ll cross the stream, I have a dream

        with apologies to the EU for mentioning miles!

      • southerner

        Aside from the illiterate second sentence, I see you are still pushing the pro Europe agenda. Add it to the pro immigration arguments you have propounded.
        And you have the audacity on other threads to argue you are a right ring conservative. That had me falling about laughing.

      • Smithersjones2013

        And there is the biggest lie of them all. If we leave the EU we will leave the single market. We do not need to remain in the single market to have access to it or benefit from it and as the EU’s largest external market (something Norway could never dream of being) our position for negotiating a favourable arrangement to facilitate such access in our interests would be maximised.

        You really should give up with this paranoid tin-foil hat scaremongering nonsense. It just makes you look even more deranged than you seem.

  • Patricia

    “… you get the best for Britain by rolling up your sleeves and fighting for real change in Europe.’”
    I can’t say I’ve noticed any “fighting for real change” coming from Mr Cameron over the last three years.

    • Kitty MLB

      No fighting whatsoever, just complacency,
      And allowing the smaller party in the coalition to
      call all the shots.

  • Patricia

    “….you get the best for Britain by rolling up your sleeves and fighting for real change in Europe.’”
    And he’s been doing this for the last three years ?

  • Full Name

    To address the article: Labour and Liberal Democrats are working off the basis of the Status Quo to avoid referendums with the public. Mr. Cameron of the Conservatives (atm) works off the basis of:

    The Fallacy of the Middle Way Argument.

    History, facts and evidence in abundance and “cast-iron” lies all prove the fallacy of the Middle Way is impossible via Article 48 TEU Lisbon Treaty (see Hollande no Treaty change until 2019 due to triggering a French referendum he’s terrified of losing and Barroso and Shulz).

    The polls only show the ability of the establishment to keep the public ignorant and scared of losing the Single Market via economic scare-stories.

    via: “FLexit: how we would actually leave the EU” the UK can:

    Vote Out the EU
    Vote In the EEA

    via Article 50 TEU Lisbon Treaty. This is the best option for the British public to regain their: Sovereignty of Parliament, Democracy, Self-Determination, Common Law and Habeaus Corpus and hopefully Direct Democracy away from the Centralism of the Federal USE.

  • 700islands

    A great many people in the UK would like to see David Cameron’s strategy of renegotiating Britain’s relationship in the EU work so we can have access to the free market without the political aspect of ever closer union.

    However, it has to be said that it is doubtful Cameron would be heading down this path quite so far or quite so quickly if it were not for UKIP. Without a single seat at Westminster UKIP are the ones making the political weather. It is quite an extraordinary achievement. The entire centre ground surrounding what is and is not acceptable to say, or the opinions you can hold and be “sound”, on the EU has altered radically. Saying that the UK could leave the EU and do just fine is now mainstream. Labour policies on Europe and immigration are now radically different from the Blair/Brown years and much more sceptical. Even the Lib Dems now argue that the EU needs reform. Farage is largely responsible.

    The effect is not limited to Britain. Farage is now one of the most influential political figures in Europe and the only real opposition to the EU mantra of “Ever Closer Union”. Cameron says UKIP “can’t change a thing in Europe”. I’m sorry but this is simply wrong, UKIP are the principle driving force of change. Most Britons would probably not want to go as far as UKIP would want to go, but they are happy about the direction of travel. And to ask if there is anyone we could trust less than a group of UKIP MPs as Maria Miller exits stage left is a bit, well, ah, fruit-cakey, to paraphrase somebody or other.

    Cameron’s Bloomberg speach was rather good. He spoke to a lot of truths. The problem has been on the follow through, or lack there of. His well practised frown might better carry the weight of conviction if his list of renegotiating positions had not been so wet.

  • Ricky Strong

    I don’t know what is worse. The regurgitated bile that spews from that mans mouth or his complete and utter inability to listen and pay attention to the people whom he supposedly represents. Does he ever wonder why his party membership has dropped from almost 3million in the 1950’s to around 130,000 today (UK Parliament website), UKIP meanwhile steady on 30,000 and rising.

    Oh how I wish we had a conservative party to vote for.

    • Lady Magdalene

      Apparently CON Party membership has dipped below 100,000 …. but the party is (understandably) not admitting it.

      • Ricky Strong

        I don’t know what’s worse, that they won’t admit to that or they won’t admit to the fact they are no longer conservative (a few exceptions on the back benches).

  • Full Name

    There is only one HONEST and DEMOCRATIC option on the EU:

    Article 50 TEU Lisbon Treaty. Everything else is snake oil.

    RAE North has provided a comprehensive Brexit via Article 50 TEU Lisbon Treaty that allows the UK under a successful referendum to Brexit the EU and join the EEA:

    “Flexcit: how we would actually leave the EU”:
    http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=84857

    This appears to be the gold standard for Brexit imho.

    Mr. Cameron dare not look at these Brexit options nor speak nor hear about them.

  • Tony_E

    Seven Prime Ministers have gone to Brussels since Wilson’s sham negotiations and the referendum.

    Every single one of them has found themselves outnumbered and outmanoeuvred. In the instances it was because the French needed funds for the CAP and we’re able to co-opt other nations on the back of other subjects. Then came the fisheries and the inclusion of Spain and Portugal, with France again acting as the agent for more pillage of British resources including the irish box. All of those nations taking from the pot were always net recipients from the pot.

    Cameron has fared no better. We will always be Europe’s whipping boy, a cow to milk. There can be no reform. Addition of the eastern European states has not rebalanced the EU in favour of a co-operative of free trading nation states. It is still Monet’s supranational power.

    It cannot be reformed. The sooner the people of this nation wake up to that reality then the sooner we can leave.

    • Conway

      We’ve had 50 attempts to block EU regulation and not once have we been successful. What chance does Dave have? We have less and less “influence” as the EU has expanded and fewer Commissioners now. We’ve been trying to change the EEC/EU from within for 41 years and have had no luck at all. Time to try a new tack and Brexit.

      • Tony_E

        The problem is that the real issues get little airing here in the UK. Ukip and Nigel Farage are poor at ennunciating the reality of the situation. The BBC are recipient of the EU gravy train and every civil servant we send there or to the foreign office goes native with the first cup of expresso.

        We really need a better figure to lead the push back against federalism, better than Farage as a leader, more charismatic than Richard North but as knowledgeable and better than both at dealing with the mainstream media.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Well, simplifying your plan, why not just cut off the BBC? Eliminate their mandated cash flow, and take them off the public dole?

          As for the real issues, mass immigration is one, and it’s getting some play. Such issues require steady pressure, and don’t respond suddenly. But when people see how unfettered immigration is negatively affecting their own lives, they’ll respond eventually. Just keep up the steady pressure, and take away the illegitimate BBC megaphone. The mass immigration policy was never really vetted and agreed, so an extended period of public education is required.

          • Tony_E

            I would agree on the BBC. I wouldn’t miss it.
            However, Farage is making some traction over immigration but he fails to make any real traction over the democratic deficit issues. The public just don’t get it at large.
            They also don’t understand the history, the attempts to block directives that failed, they forget the cost to our farming and fishing industries, they forget that we were fined simply for passing our own maritime conservation laws. They forget that the entire purpose of the EU is to bind France and Germany together in a pact that allows them the power of an empire jointly, to stop them fighting each other. Neither do they understand the principles of Monet, spinetti, Delors, and the other supranationalists.

            If Farage could get the British people to understand the motives of the founders and the progressionists, the Conniving of the French, German, Spanish and Portuguese political classes amongst others, we would be voting this year on our exit, lest the government face the piano wire and the lamp post.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              I think you’re putting too much on one guy, or one political party. These people who have driven this project are like a pathogen. They seep in and infect, and they thrive in darkness and ignorance. Defeating them requires education and sunlight, and that all takes time. It couldn’t have happened with limited resources of one guy and one party, and I think Farage and UKIP have likely done as much as could have been done in the near term… thundering away at the R umpy P umpy types on YouTube. That provides the kickstart, but only a populist movement and real contrarianism can defeat the project’s sponsors, who will squash or buy off anything driven from the top.

              The People will have to bring on the change from here on out. It’s likely going to happen suddenly, when it happens. Something bad will occur, and then the switch will go click and the mainstream will move en masse to a new position. That’s what I’m expecting. You can see the underlying polls show the People are ready for exactly that sort of process.

        • Wessex Man

          Sorry, I think that UKip are doing a fantastic job of airing the real issues, the difference now is that people have woken up smelled the Coffee and decided that we UKip have right all along.

    • Wessex Man

      well you say that seven Prime Ministers have been ouynumbered and outmanoevred but were they really trying? I think not.

  • Full Name

    Cameron was invited to the EU Debate last week and the week before, with Farage and Clegg and he declined voluntarily. Suddenly he has a lot of free-time on his hands!

    He had his chance to talk about the EU then in front of the nation, but backed-down.

    Forget anything he says on the EU. Out of the party leaders only Clegg and Farage have a right to address the public on the EU, imo. Cameron and Miliband obviously don’t believe in the EU or the UK.

  • http://atoryblog.blogspot.com Man in a Shed

    The more people vote UKIP, the more Cameron will have to look after the UK rather than the EU. It makes no sense to vote Conservative in the Euro elections… That will just encourage the moderniser EU Quislings who back Cameron.

  • Mike Barnes

    The thing is most people actually enjoyed hearing the debate between Clegg and Farage. Dave calls them ‘extremists’, but it was actually refreshing to hear politicians stake out a position and defend it. It’s so much more appealing than Dave Cameron’s Tony Blair tribute act of triangulation, spin and snake oil.

    So if you like the EU vote Lib Dem. If you don’t like it vote UKIP. Simple, straightforward stuff.

    I’m sure there must be a reason for voting Conservative, I just can’t think of one yet…

    • HookesLaw

      So you would be happy with a Labour govt?

      • http://atoryblog.blogspot.com Man in a Shed

        We’d be happy with a sovereign government elected by the British people. That means leaving the EU. Voting Conservative keeps us in the EU.

      • Streben80

        We have one in all but name.

      • WatTylersGhost

        Hookey, how’s Maria?

      • Hugh1

        The difference is?

      • Lady Magdalene

        I’m not happy with a LibCON one. I won’t be happy with a Labour one. I won’t be happy with a Lib/Lab one.
        All 3 want the trappings of power, to milk the system ….. and the EU to govern the country.
        I want my country back. Not one of LibLabCON intends allowing that, so I won’t be happy if any of them “win” the next election on basis of around 25% of the potential votes.

      • Tom Tom

        We have one !

      • Smithersjones2013

        Irrelevant. They like you and your Tory doormats just do what Brussels tells them anyway ………

      • Hexhamgeezer

        It is possible to be unhappy with a Conliblab government and a Liblabcon or a Lablibcon as well.

    • Makroon

      ‘Most people’ couldn’t be bothered to listen to the latest TV “reality” stunt, between one of our most unpopular politicians and a bloke whose charm wears off quite quickly.
      Tune in to next week’s edition of “Battle of the sound-bites” featuring Gorgeous George Galloway and Dangerous Denny Skinner, on “Is the bedroom tax unfair to Muslims”.

  • cargill55

    Cameron cannot be trusted to govern Britain in the interests of the British people.

    • HookesLaw

      Rubbish.

      • Two Bob

        Go and be his boyfriend then.

        • WatTylersGhost

          He’s in love with Maria.

          • HookesLaw

            And your ignorance and prejudice on the subject has been exposed.

            • Wessex Man

              oh dear.

            • Hexhamgeezer

              Who is this ‘guest vote’ of yours?

      • Wessex Man

        well that’s very insightful Hooky, has the once majestic Tory party come this, you their propaganda in chief here at the Specci now issue one word statements

  • @PhilKean1

    .
    You just know that this will increase UKIP’s support level.

    I suppose the words that made the biggest impact with me were these – (not verbatim) – “Britain’s national interest is NOT served by walking away from the EU”.

    There you go. From the horse’s mouth. A man who is trying to convince us that he will offer the British people a referendum and then take Britain out of the EU if they so vote.

    Of course, by that time his actions would have made leaving the EU very difficult. More opt-ins, more inclusion in EU trade agreements and the effects that a limitless supply of EU immigrants will have on the British peoples’ decision processes.

    .

  • Raddiy

    You have to laugh!! Here is a man in Cameron who has made a career out of lying, obfuscating, dissembling and duplicity. Ignoring and insulting in equal measure hundreds of thousands of former supporters and current supporters by his actions and words. Imposing hated policies such as the billions wasted on Overseas Aid, whilst our people are being denied all sorts of basic services to pay for it.

    Why you might ask? Simply because HE thinks those policies are right, and that HE doesn’t give a toss what WE think, if our opinion was written down he would use it as he might use a roll of Andrex.

    He doesn’t care what we think or feel, he cares nothing about our concerns about the future direction of OUR country, I would question whether he, Milliband or Clegg even care about this country at all.

    He is just a sanctimonious two faced snake oil salesman, who at this moment in time needs us to support him to allow him to continue to ignore us.

    Message for Cameron, sod off!!

    • DavEd CamerBand

      Nice comment, although I don’t think Dave would have much use for a roll of “Andrex”, not after the EU have had their way with him.

    • Kitty MLB

      Cameron is a Octopus, dear Raddy.
      Without substance.And with tentacles giving
      money away and hugging the EU.What else can
      I say.

      • DavEd CamerBand

        Oh my goodness! What a great analogy, spinless too! And the suckers are sucking the lifeblood from England, and the spitting black ink represents….. need i say?

        • Kitty MLB

          As a Grass Root Tory, I need to be very careful of Octopuses
          like Cameron. Always trying to hug you, I stay away from the
          coast now, best to avoid confrontations with such creatures.

          • DavEd CamerBand

            Yes, he does have plenty of ink to sign those EU treaties that’s for sure.

    • Rossspeak

      Can’t disagree with you Raddiy – but who would you have sodding in?

      • Raddiy

        Perhaps somebody who tells the truth, says it as it is, puts the interests of the country first second and third would be a good start.

        If three ex spads who got to where they are by patronage, have no experience outside politics can achieve the leadership of the three main parties, and a chancellor whose only proper job was as a saturday boy wallpaper salesman, then it would seem perfectly feasible to me that with the exception of the 650 who sit in the Commons, a random group of 650 citizens out of the 60 million population of the UK could probably do a sodding good job.

    • Makroon

      Ah! the good old UKIP royal “we” and royal “our”.
      Of course “he thinks his policies are right”,
      Why would he be influenced by some random kipper ?

      • Raddiy

        ” Why would he be influenced by some random kipper ? ”

        He won’t be influenced by us, in the same way he doesn’t take any notice of his own supporters. I personally hope he simply carries on along his chosen path all the way to 2015, it is more advantageous to us if he does.

        • telemachus

          The advantage may be to you in the popular vote
          But not in seats
          All you will do is increase from the current 43 the Tory marginals to be delivered to the forces of reason

          • Colonel Mustard

            They are not the forces of reason though. They are the forces of cluelessness and spite.

            • Alexsandr

              & envy

        • Wessex Man

          me as well, he is a gift that keeps giving!

      • Wessex Man

        Well, lets listen to an EU Commissioner instead, yes the dear old Vivianne Reding says that yes she can confirm that 75% to 80% of all laws in all countries of the European Union are made in Brussels, confirming that Nick Clegg is a liar and that Cameron is too!

  • Christopher Horne

    Has David Cameron announced what it is he wants to change about Europe yet?

    • saffrin

      Give him a chance, he’s only been PM for four years.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Nothing I’ve seen. All woolly assurances but no visible agenda, plan or strategy.

      But in any case no change agenda is likely to succeed with the likes of Rumpy-Pumpy and Barroso running the Commission.

      • telemachus
        • Colonel Mustard

          Christ that’s not an agenda let alone a plan. It’s a list of fluffy aspirations with no structure or timetable around achieving them. Cameron is coasting along thinking if he gets kicked out he won’t have to bother and if by some miracle he gets another term he can worry about it then. Flim-flam man. Ruddy useless.

          Hard objectives with dates for delivery are required.

          “We want A by this date, Rumpy-pumpy and Barroso you clowns, and if we don’t get it we are going to do this.”

          • telemachus

            These things will always be a game with patrician Tories
            They have had their time
            Farage’s role is to finally do for them
            In this he has my vote and my blessing

            • Colonel Mustard

              Any reasonable and intelligent person knows that another Labour government will be a ticket to disaster. Unfortunately the same huge ego that drives you to barrage this site with Labour propaganda drives the Labour cabinet and it robs you all of any self awareness to be critical or circumspect about your own ideologies. So convinced are you that you are right about everything that you fall into the trap of believing your ideas must be coerced in order to achieve your intentions. And you never even think of consequences.

              Your comments reveal it often and it is not pleasant let alone “reasonable”. Labour is a dangerous party, supported by dangerous people who, unfortunately, labour under the delusion that their way is the only way.

              • telemachus

                ‘the trap of believing your ideas must be coerced in order to achieve your intentions’
                ‘labour under the delusion that their way is the only way’
                No trap
                No delusion
                It is the way
                It is the future

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Which response neatly demonstrates my whole point, thanks. You and your party do not own the future or the way to it.

                • Alexsandr

                  and dissenters vill be shot!

      • Baron

        More to the point, Colonel, it’s the Frau who calls the tune and why should she allow any meaningful change to the monstrosity when it was the EU as it is that got Germany to call the tune?

        • telemachus

          She only calls the tune because of our national schizophrenia
          We, most of us, want in but instead of constructive robust engagement we shilly shally at the edges
          Thatcher for all her damage at home knew how to play Johnny Foreigner abroad but par excellence in Brussels. But remained engaged
          Cameron in this as with Miller and all else is weak
          I see the role of Farage to coalesce the fruitcakes with the genuine eurosceptics and let the rest of us, the reasonable, peer into the abyss and conclude that our future is with the powerful 500 million country but within that powerful group move into a position of leadership
          We could never do this with the Tories
          I can see it happening with an administration contains a hard man of the calibe of Ed Balls

          • Colonel Mustard

            China believes in itself. We used to but now we conflate that confidence of identity with xenophobia and the equality agenda to believe Europe is a crutch and we have something to learn from European politics. We don’t. The idea of subordinating Parliament to the European Commission was and is preposterous. It has undermined a thousand years of history and the laissez faire constitutional tradition that lay behind our success.

            All of the treaties that have led us here were signed up to by politicians without our consent or by deceiving us.

            Don’t call me a European citizen. I’m not.

            • telemachus

              Whether in the EU or not you are a European citizen
              Wheter in the EU or not the rest of the world understand you are European
              Why not move to a position of lkeadership within the fold of the EU
              *
              You cannot deny your birthright

              • Smithersjones2013

                And that’s where nasty little authoritarians like you are wrong! We are what we decide we are not what some jumped up little despot in Brussels or their sad little doormats tells us we are!

                I am English and nothing else!

                • telemachus

                  We all live in a world conditioned by religion and trade
                  I am currently reading a learned treatise about the ‘Northmen’ who drove their influence throughout Europe and the near middle east thru trade and augmented by conquest and assimilation

                  Those who did not accede had variable but universally bad fates
                  *
                  We must embrace our destiny

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You should read it more carefully then and belay your veiled threats of coercion and violence.

                  Destiny is forged not embraced. The American revolutionary militias often had a motto on their flags “Don’t tread on me” with the image of a poisonous snake.

              • Colonel Mustard

                My birthright is English and British. Historically Britain was never considered to be part of Europe and the EU did not exist when I was born.

                I am not defined by the identity attributed to me by others but by my own. I am no more a “European citizen” than the occupied French were German citizens or citizens of ‘Europa’.

                • telemachus

                  What I truly detest about Farage is the little englishness which appears to have infested a disproportionate number of posters round her
                  Life has moved on
                  My Great Great Grandfather was a Yorkshireman and did not recognise the need to also bat for England let alone Britain
                  No doubt his Great Grandfather batted only for his West Yorkshire Valley
                  *
                  The successors in my family have moved on

                • Colonel Mustard

                  This idea of “life moving on” is one of the greatest cons perpetrated by those who set out in the late 1960s to change the way things were to conform to their political ideologies, born in Russia and matured in the Soviet Union.

                  The moronic concept that “change is good” and the arrogant presumption that what is labelled as “progressive” by intention is progressive by consequence. You and people like you have changed this country beyond recognition but don’t ever, ever, pretend that you can make me like it. Just as it won’t work by telling lies about the many crimes you have perpetrated it won’t work by resorting to silly labels like “little englishness” with the ‘e’ artfully written in lower case to demonstrate your real contempt for the national identity.

                  Cue the S*x Pistols, tel. I bet you don’t hate us as much as we hate you.

          • Baron

            Our time was after the war, telemachus, we occupied the high moral ground being the only European power neither succumbing to the idea of a cult of personality nor being conquered by a power that did, we had plenty of high quality civil servants coming home from the crumbling Empire, we could have offered these highly trained, apolitical bureaucrats to staff the new emerging European institutions, and third, we had English, a tool deadly undervalued by anyone who speaks it, but one that could have opened a window into our culture, the institutions it had bred, institutions superior to what the Europeans had.

            It was then we should have gone in at full speed, pitched for the leadership, we didn’t, we blew it. Now, it’s too late, we’ll never unseat the Frau’s crowd, the French will back them fearing they may lose the treasured CAP, the Italians will join the running horse, the’ve always done so, the rest of Europe will do as the Germans tell them, most of their trade is with them.

            Our oyster should be the world, not an incontinent Old Continent.

    • Raddiy

      I think he wants to change our minds ideally….:-)

      • Wessex Man

        I’ve never seen another man to get us to change our minds so much, unfortunately for him the effect is the exact opposite to the way he wants us to travel with him.

    • Smithersjones2013

      Well sort of.. Anything that Germany and Brussels might deign to allow….. Poor Dave’s a bit desperate these days…..

      • Wessex Man

        I don’t know, he always looks supremely happy with himself as he seems to think he is part of the project to which the Brtish people decided they wwould rather not be.

        So he’s either insane, stupid or exceedingly over-confident, probably all three.

  • Alexsandr

    it is clear the rest of the EU don’t want reform, to have a lesser EU or a watering down of the single market.
    And Dave has said he want to stay in the EU so they are not going to take him very seriously are they?
    before the 1975 referendum Wilson attempted renegotiation, got next to nothing and hailed it as a victory. so we all went and voted to stay in. Cameron will try to play the same trick. Only this time some of us have longer memories.

    • saffrin

      “it is clear the rest of the EU don’t want reform”

      Anti-EU sentiment grows daily across Europe, France, Italy, Greece, and Holland with the latest example being the unreported riots in Brussels.

      • Alexsandr

        I apologise. I should have said the political elites in europe dont want reform. The people in the EU are of no consequence to the project.

  • London Calling

    I have three words also “Get us out” Cameron maybe sincere in his thinking however you cannot reform the EU and pulling up sleeves amounts to nothing when trying…………….Trust will fall on the person who demands a referendum for the people of Britain to have their say on whether we want in or out, anything less is unacceptable, sorry Dave but its the truth………………….

  • Kitty MLB

    The whole point Prime Minister, is the fact you stared out as a man who was sick
    of the EU and wanted us to deal with the wider world. But then you
    made a he mistake by going into coalition with those whey faced miscreants,
    dabbling their sleek hands into Albion’s Gore whilst being poodles to the EU.
    As Leader of one of the largest parties in the UK and Prime Minister you should be
    putting the UK”s interests first. But all we are told is that you can reform the EU.
    Pray tell us Sir, why is that our concern or business. We are sick of hearing
    about the latest surgery on the EU..and what reforms will Angela Merkel allow us to have. Slaves do not ask for their chains to be loosened by the way, they want to be free.
    I understand the Lib Dems and Labour are against a referendum and will not
    allow us to have one, especially whilst we are in government with the Lib Dems,
    but why could we not have one at the beginning of the next parliament.

    • HookesLaw

      The next parliament?
      Because we need to know what is on offer at a time when we will have good leverage to actually negotiate something worthwhile.
      If after that you think it has not been worthwhile you can vote how you thiknk. But do you want to leave the single market? Do you want to put the UK’s considerable inward investment at risk? Do you want to put at risk the possiblilty of jobs leaving the UK for other EU countries? I can think of a number of EU countries who would be delighted if we left so they could steal our inward investment and for instance our car manufacturing.

      What guarantees do loony toon kippers give that that would not happen? And if you want to stay in the single market like Norway but still be outside the EU? Well then in that case there would be no real difference for us.

      • Wessex Man

        oh dear-

        I have a dream, a song to sing
        To help me cope with everything
        If you see the wonder of a fairy tale
        I believe in angels
        Something good in everything I see
        I believe in angels
        When I know the time is right for me
        I’ll cross the stream, I have a dream!

        • Kitty MLB

          Oh, you sing songs. Our lovely Scottish poster Allymax, writes
          the most enchanting poetry. I didn’t realise how creative the Spectator was… Apart from Hooky, I m not too
          sure about his creative gene.

      • Alexsandr

        do I want to leave the single market -yes
        do I want to put inward investment at risk -no, but I dont believe leaving the EU would
        I dont believe brit jobs would leave the eu for other countries either -because we would be outside of the stranglehold of useless EU regulations.

    • Erictheowl

      Splendid rhetoric, Ms Kitty – well said.

  • saffrin

    Dave must be as deaf as he thinks we are daft.
    The big boss in Brussels has already told him there’ll be no change. Not for him, you, me, the electorate or anybody………only Putin.

    • DavEd CamerBand

      If he could/ would he would have already.

  • DavEd CamerBand

    GIVE US A REFERENDUM TOMORROW! Why not if it’s something you truly believe in?

  • MirthaTidville

    Just come up for air, been laughing so hard on this one…its breathtaking but the one I liked best was…Is there anyone you would trust less than a group of ukip Mep`s??..yes,in a word Dave……..

    • DavEd CamerBand

      The more he opens his ignorant mouth about UKIP the more people realise what a nasty ad hominem, cynical, ignorant little man he is.

      While all the time watching the people he purports to represent join UKIP in their droves, swiveled eyed loons they ‘aint…….. While promising the central policy of the party he accuses of these things. What a fruitcake!

      “They’re a weak lot in [Westminster] you know” -Thatcher

      • HookesLaw

        Well the much vaunted debates did not change people’s views about staying or leaving the EU. So I doubt Cameron’s speech will do much either.
        Not that you or any of the other thick bigoted kippers are in anyway capable of considering a rational argument. You are just nasty homophobics (we have seen all the kipperesque comments) delighted at Farage’s efforts to make bigotry acceptable.

        • DavEd CamerBand

          As a homosexual I take issue with your bigoted sentiments.

          I can make you support UKIP within 10 comments, try me.

        • Rhoda Klapp8

          Not trusting Cameron doesn’t make me a homophobe. Does it?

          • Conway

            These days homophobia is like a badge of honour.

            • HookesLaw

              Good to see you admit the reason for your bigotry.

              • Wessex Man

                oh dear.

            • Kitty MLB

              As apposed to a straight child abusing
              wife bashing thug, Oh well at least he’s
              not gay, thats fine then.

              • HookesLaw

                Ah yes… you missed out, shaven headed tattoed etc. I think your actually listing a key BNP/EDL/UKIP knuckle-dragging demographic.

                • Wessex Man

                  oh dear, he casts the first stone.

                • Patricia

                  “Ah yes… you missed out, shaven headed tattoed etc. I think your actually listing a key BNP/EDL/UKIP knuckle-dragging demographic.”

                  If in doubt, wheel out the whiskery clichés.

          • DavEd CamerBand

            If it does, count me in!

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Well, if it does, 70% of the people in that poll are right there with you.

        • Wessex Man

          The people spoke after the debates Hooky with a very large majority expressing their support to Nigel Farage and Ukip. I don’t particularly like Clegg but at least he had the guts to stand and debate and show he has a spine, which your man showed he didn’t!

          • MirthaTidville

            Neither has Hooky..all he does is throw out personal abuse to people he doesnt know and never will. Ergo his views do not count

    • telemachus

      UKIP MEP’s are so clearly deficient individuals that to opt for preference of them over well rounded Dave is in itself a sign of character defect

      • DavEd CamerBand

        Your jokes are really rather good. Your tonge must have been firmly in your cheek as you typed that!

      • 700islands

        …its quite an audacious claim for Cameron to make while the Maria Miller’s is still visible exiting, don’t you think?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …were but that she were “exiting”. Her snout will be at the public trough for quite some time, we’d expect.

  • telemachus

    Vote Ukip in May
    The European elections do not matter
    Let Unipolar Farage have his moment of glory
    *
    Then ask the vapid man what are his policies on health, on education, on pensions, on housing, on transport and on unemployment
    *
    He is an empty vessel one issue man with no depth of expertise in his ragbag party

    • MirthaTidville

      just like you then innit

    • saffrin

      By simply leaving the EU those problems you have highlighted will be solved.
      It isn’t rocket science to realise open door mass immigration has overburdened our education and health service.
      It isn’t rocket science to realise supply and demand has pushed up property prices.
      It isn’t rocket science to realise our unemployment mountain grows with every immigrant that enters the county and it isn’t rocket science either to realise our energy costs have been driven up by EU demands we comply with their green policies regardless of the fact those policies do nothing but shift the problem somewhere else, which bye the way also adds to our unemployment mountain.

      You should vote UKIP telemachus, it isn’t rocket science to realise it’s our only chance.

      • telemachus

        Do you imagine that if Farage got in
        Or even if a competent politician was charged with implementing an out referendum
        That it would take anything less than ten years to disengage
        *
        During this time Farage would need to operate health education etc. He has no policies on these and only fruitcakes to carry through
        *
        Let them have their glory in May and then leave it to competent politicians

        • DavEd CamerBand

          He does have policies on these you just need to wait for his manifesto, just as you do Labour’s….. yet you’ve already drawn your “balanced” opinion.

          • telemachus

            The Ukip manifesto is neither credible nor signed up to by the motley crew who represent Ukip

            • DavEd CamerBand

              It doesn’t exist yet. So how can you already judge the document, unless you’re a bigot of course…

              • telemachus

                Your ragbag candidates talk about it

                • DavEd CamerBand

                  Who are these people?

                • telemachus

                  Just go and talk to any one of your Ukip council or EU parliament candidates
                  Those who can string more than 2 words together refer to their manifesto commitments
                  Then you ask them to specify a policy on say health their is either silence or flannel

                • DavEd CamerBand

                  You haven’t answered my question.

                  This is such fallacious conjecture I can’t be bothered with you, I’ll just stoop to your level to see how disgusting you must feel:

                  I spoke to a labour MP, and he said all he wanted to do is give more money to the EU than we already do……. Oh wait that’s actually the truth….

                  I give up, it’s too hard to tell lies about your beloved party, because the truth is as damaging as the lies could ever be.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Ragbag is good. A wonk-free zone is good.

            • Colonel Mustard

              Motley is good.

        • saffrin

          Ukip will be in Government for decades. Once Nigel Farage stops paying the rent they’ll be kicking us out anyway.

          • telemachus

            As you well know Ukip’s only role is to deliver the 43 Tory marginals to the forces of reason

            • saffrin

              There are no marginal’s or strongholds anymore.
              The rise of UKIP changes everything

              • telemachus

                UKIP are an In between party

                • saffrin

                  UKIP are the alternative to the one party state we have been living under these last few decades

                • telemachus

                  Evidence?
                  I see little in common between the Thatcher and the Gordon Brown administrations
                  Farage would make us a laughing stock
                  Could you imagine him in the Oval Office, in the Kremlin or in the Vatican?

                • DavEd CamerBand

                  Thatcher’s time was NOT ruled by the EU you idiot, she always hated the idea of the EU ruling us, it was subsequent govs who handed our power over, Jesus, you know so little about politics it makes me want to cry.

                  Imagine Miliband in those places, a laughing stock is an understatement, we’d have to get the pictures sanctioned as a nuclear weapon.

                • Tony_E

                  Thatcher was naive in the first instance. Then outnumbered. She got her rebate but it has always been worthless as all funds coming to the UK as part of EU regional funding has been calculated put of that rebate. The consequence is that we have not gained as we have had to refuse central funding for development and farming simply because it would have actually come from UK taxes, not the community funds that we had paid into for such exigencies.

                • DavEd CamerBand

                  18 billion wouldn’t have been a bad sum….. Had calamity Blair not given over half of it back in return for NOTHING.

                • saffrin

                  Both Brown and Bliar loved Thatcherism to the point they followed her policies to the letter and Gordon Brown turned the nation into a World laughing stock when he ran after Obama like some gibbering idiot.

                • DavEd CamerBand

                  Go on any newspaper comment threads/blogs and see for yourself, the public are singing the praises of UKIP more than any other party. UKIP are incredibly popular at the moment, and the people in our day to day lives are the only true measure of political leanings, everything else is AstroTurf statistics, UKIP are more popular than Jesus and John Lenon conjoined.

          • DavEd CamerBand

            The only argument they have against leaving is trade, its laughable, I’m sure the bankrupt EU can’t wait to stop trading with their largest export market in the world!

            • telemachus

              It is a question of influence on the trading rules

              • DavEd CamerBand

                Oh dear, you’re really exhausting your “Clegg’s handbook of talking-points”…..Influence? The same influence Iceland has to negotiate a trade deal with China?

                • telemachus

                  We have the opportunity to use our trade and banking expertise to mould the policies of the greatest trading block in the world
                  GB historically has led in the world
                  Our empire was based on trade
                  We cannot shrink into a shell

                • DavEd CamerBand

                  And we did it SPECTACULARLY without the EU!

                • Colonel Mustard

                  We don’t need a bunch of excitable Europeans to do that. Global sales are rising as EU sales fall. We need the freedom to trade off our own bat.

                • HookesLaw

                  I’m sure we could. But the EU is not going to go away and if we did then in the midst of all the confusion we would probably join the EEA (until Labour eventually took us back into the EU proper) and that would be very little different from now.
                  Indeed one demand that the EU might make as part of any negotiation might be that we join Schengen. Why if and when we have left the EU and lost all our concessions, why should the EU and several of its self interested members NOT demand that like them we should be in Schengen?
                  How can anybody guarantee that that would NOT be the case?
                  How is it that kippers can promise the moon and sixpence and be believed but everyone else is a bunch of liars?
                  Come off it. Get real. We leave the EU and the EU fall over themselves to make us even more competitive than before?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Oh, not everyone else is a “bunch of liars”, lad.

                  But you Camerluvvies are definitely liars. You lie just as easily as you take your next breath.

                  Your buddy Dave reminds me of Goebbels. Tell a big lie, and just keep repeating it. That’s the guy Dave apparently went to school on.

                • HookesLaw

                  Deary me laddo – you do live in a massive fantasy world.
                  Saint Nigel never lies of course – like the lie he told about UK contributions to the EU.
                  Cameron has not lied about the EU or anything else as far as I can see.
                  Meantime you just vomit garbage with every keystroke.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Dave hasn’t lied?

                  Yes, you Camerluvvies have learnt the Goebbels lessons well, lad.

                • Wessex Man

                  oh dear-

                  I have a dream, a song to sing
                  To help me cope with anything
                  If you see the wonder of a fairy tale
                  You can take the future even if you fail
                  I believe in angels
                  Something good in everthing I see
                  I believe in angels
                  When I know the time is right for me
                  I’ll cross the stream, I havwe a dream
                  I’ll cross the stream, I have a dream.

                  NURSE! NURSe! NURse! NUrse! Nurse” nur………..

                • Wessex Man

                  NURSE! even aSpanish nurse!

              • ButcombeMan

                Like the influence China has? Or South Korea? That will do me.

                It would do me for us actually to be represented in WTO discussions

              • Wessex Man

                er, pardon, we are not allowed to negotiate our own deals so thats gives us more influence?

            • HookesLaw

              If Germany left the EU then it would probably be its largest export market. We are one of the biggest countries in a large free trade area. It therefore follows that if we left we would be turning our back on a massive export market.

              • DavEd CamerBand

                We are actually their largest export market, it wasn’t a flippant remark.

                There’s no way on earth they would stop trading with us, they simply couldn’t afford to, and the big companies wouldn’t allow them to.

              • Rhoda Klapp8

                Idiot.

              • ButcombeMan

                We would have the same access that we have now, subject to WTO rules.

                As we are such a huge market for EU goods we are astonishingly well placed to negotiate

                • HookesLaw

                  How would be have the same access as now? Does the USA have the same access as us?
                  Like you are a genius as well.

                  Why does Norway pay (literally) for the privilige of access to the single market rather than rely on WTO rules? Why is Canada signing a comprehensive trade agreement?

                  Why should EU members fall over themselves to trade with us when they can steal our inward investment and poach our lucrative industries and keep us outside their tariff wall.
                  Why has Hitachi decided that the best place for their world rail business is in the UK inside the EU single market where it wants to sell. Why, if as you say its dead easy with WTO rules? Why should it sack its own workers and close its business down in Japan and recruit 3000 people in Britain.

                  Pah – those people at Hitachi they know nothing about international trade.

                  Why – just why – should anyone believe all your crass speculations about how it would be oh so easy? Why should anyone put their existing job at risk and for what?

                • ButcombeMan

                  Why is Ford building Transits in Turkey?

                  The whole trade thing as a reason to stay in the POLITICAL European Union is vastly overdone.

                  In or out, we will trade with Europe and they will trade with us because it is in both our interests. We represent a huge market for German, French, Italian and Spanish goods.

                  Trade is not a reason to stay in a POLITICAL Union. Yet it seems to be the only argument put forward. Why. Do you Europhiles have nothing else?

                  WTO tariff rates are fine for us. If the Germans want to sell us Miele vacs they will still need to put our 3 pin plug on. If we want to sell them Dysons, we will need to put theirs on. That is how the world operates.

                  Cameron can never get changes that will satisfy the British,

                  By temperament, history and culture we were never designed to be subjects of a European superstate. Only fools would try to do that to the British.

            • Conway

              We do more trade with the rest of the world anyway; the EU is a declining market. It’s funny how Mexico and China can trade with the EU without being members, but we wouldn’t be able to. Something doesn’t add up there.

          • Lady Magdalene

            It’s not rest, it’s Danegeld.

        • ButcombeMan

          Article 50 allows two years and would concentrate minds.

          Competent politicians? Your hero Ed Balls?

          ROFL

        • Colonel Mustard

          He’s Wat Tyler. His only purpose is to (use the kind of jargon those clowns in Parliament love) send a message to the flim-flam troika that we’ve had enough.

          • telemachus

            And it is time for his appointment with the Mayor

        • Baron

          So how come your favourite Labour had an economic policy that nearly finished us all, both parties have policies on health yet the NHS staggers from one crisis to another, similarly on crime (still sky high), education (still 15% of school leavers cannot read), foreign policy (Afghanistan, Syria…) ….

          Perhaps having no top down policies, letting the unwashed to organise things at the grass level would serve us better.

          • Makroon

            Baron as an anarchist ?
            Nah, doesn’t scan.

            • Baron

              There are times, Makroon, when the feeling that everything else is preferable to the insanity policies of our ruling elite is overpowering. These times occur almost daily, like today when Baron switched the radio on, reluctantly it must be said, was told each boardroom will have to have a fixed per cent of the female gender …. Arghhh

            • Baron

              Sorry, Makroon, Baron got censored. Putin’s to blame.

            • Baron

              Baron’s replies censored, Makroon, sorry.

        • Wessex Man

          my dear Tele, we Ukip have wisely decided to act as the other two major and one minor party and not to disclose any more of our policies until the election for Westminster. One of those that we did release was shamelessly pinched by the Tories after days.

          Call me Dave and Hooky are in a sticky place which hopefully they will be in for some time!

      • HookesLaw

        I have just been to a local NHS meeting. Despite what Labour might say our trust has just agreed to spend considerable sums on more nurses. Where can it get them? Not from england Wales or Scotland. It has tried.
        Spain is churning out thousands of nurses and there is no work for them. They are coming here.
        Despite what your prejudices may cause you think they are properly tested and integratred and mentored into place and the Matron I questioned said they were ‘wonderful’. She had fears but she is delighted.

        What a shame your policies would ruin our healthcare.

        Only misguided people vote UKIP. Only thick ignorant people promote UKIP.

        • DavEd CamerBand

          How on earth will the same immigration policies that Australia has ruin our healthcare…..? that really is a scare tactic and it shows your inability to argue rationally.

          When we NEED someone to fill a place within our labour force and we don’t have enough of our own people we allow ‘nurses’ to come in, for example.

          How dare you spread your lies on here.

          • HookesLaw

            More hilarity.
            So we did not ‘need’ all the workers from the EU we now have? Studies show that far fewer immigrants are on benefoits than home grown workers. So they are working and working in jobs we ‘need’.
            In your brave new world if the bus company cannot find any drivers that it ‘needs’ where will it go?
            I cannot believe my eyes. After all the endless ranting from loony kippers you are now saying its OK we will get them from abroad.

            Out of the EU of course we could just as easily get them from India and Pakistan – they drive on the same side of the road already. Maybe Somalia?

            • DavEd CamerBand

              I guess everyone’s entitled to one softball question.

              “Studies show that far fewer immigrants are on benefits than home grown workers” – Firstly, under Farage’s policy we wouldn’t be paying for over 700,000 immigrants on JSA that we currently are. Secondly, the ones in work, by your own logic, are taking the jobs which our “home grown workers” should be doing, who are, as you say. on benefits.

              I don’t think we will ever have much of a shortage of bus drivers, but if we do, then we provide incentives for our “home grown workers” to take those jobs, ie. making them pay more than benefits. Non-specialist jobs are really not difficult to fill with our own people, and let’s see how we get on with that. If we need some low-skilled workers we can PRAISE THE LORD AS OUR UNEMPLOYMENT FIGURES WILL BE THE LOWEST IN THE WORLD! God, I wish that would happen, we live in hope eh? Then not only will these people not be taking from the system they will be GIVING to the system. WOW, what a society, I hope your hypothesis comes true!

              Yes absolutely, it is okay to import Doctors and Nurses when we don’t have enough home-gown ones….. However, why do we need to? Let’s use the 57 million we send to the EU a day to train our own, let’s get building industries and get this country back on its feet!

              Have some bloody faith in this country you sniveling girl.

              • HookesLaw

                Why are not these home grown workers doing these jobs?
                They need to be doing yes, and thats the issue not immigration. But immigration and hating evil foreigners is a nice dog whistle.
                But meanwhile – take a bit of a look around – all countries have immigrants, including a few of ours.
                Stop using Farage’s lying figures about how much we send to the EU. We get a lot of that back.

                About 1.18 million are on JSA. Don’t pretend that 700,000 of them are immigrants.
                A recent study claimed 371,000 foreign-born claimants for out-of-work benefits (not simply JSA), out of a total 5.5 million recipients (of all benefits). Of these, 258,000 were from outside the European Economic Area.

                If you are going to lie I advise you to make it believable.

                • DavEd CamerBand

                  My goodness, I feel like I’m at the nets being bowled at by someone blowing bubbles.

                  They aren’t doing these jobs for several reasons; 1. They don’t have the skills – the government doesn’t see the necessity in training them as it is cheaper and easier in the short-term to import workers. 2. The lack of jobs, the ones who do want to work have far too much competition, especially low-skilled workers. 3. A life on benefits is often more financially and socially acceptable. There are many more aspects to this.

                  Nobody is calling foreigners evil, this is YOUR invention to try to disparage our argument, by making it look morally repugnant and racist, rather than joining a rational debate.

                  You say we get a lot of that 57 million a day back, this is untrue, we gain absolutely nothing we wouldn’t otherwise achieve from outside the EU. The EU loses 162 billion a year to corruption- their own figures. They are responsible for our industries collapsing, (both of our remaining steel smelters have closed down within the past few months due to the EU’s emissions taxes).

                  Since we joined the EEC in 1973, we have been in surplus with every continent in the world except Europe. Over those 27 years, we have run a trade deficit with the other member states that averages out at £30 million per day. In 2010 our gross contribution to the EU budget will be £14 billion. To put this figure in context, all the reductions announced by George Osborne at the Conservative Party Conference would, collectively,save £7 billion a year across the whole of government spending. On the European Commission’s own figures, the annual costs of EU regulation outweigh the advantages of the single market by €600 to €180 billion. The Common Agricultural Policy costs every family £1200 a year in higher food bills. Outside the Common Fisheries Policy, Britain could reassert control over its waters out to 200 miles or the median line, which would take in around 65 per cent of North Sea stocks. A 75% proportion of domestic laws come from Brussels, Britain would be free to negotiate much more liberal trade agreements with third countries than is possible under the Common External Tariff- just like Iceland has done with China. The countries with the highest GDP per capita in Europe are Norway and Switzerland. Both export more, proportionately, to the EU, than Britain does. Outside the EU, Britain could be a deregulated, competitive, offshore haven. Oh, and we’d be a democracy again.

                  There are 1001 reasons to leave the EU besides immigration and not a single reason to stay. But you guys love to play the racist card and make us defend us on those grounds, we destroy the lie then go after the liar, it only makes our case stronger as you cannot keep the debate rational and focuses, something to hide?

                  I didn’t mean JSA I meant benefits. The statistics you’ve provided are no doubt from the Guardian ans are very deflated….. Convenient eh?

                  Yes there are a lot from outside the EU, I mean most of our immigration is from Pakistan, after Ireland, but this doesn’t mean leaving the EU wouldn’t help on this as we would gain full control over our boarders, which we currently have none.

        • Tony_E

          Not being in the EU would not stop us employing Spanish nurses. We would simply issue them work permit and right of residence.

          • DavEd CamerBand

            Just as they do in the USA and Australia, thanks for taking time to crush these cockroach propagandists.

          • HookesLaw

            But Farage wants to stop EU immigration. So do you. Thats the point of leaving so you say.

            • DavEd CamerBand

              No it is NOT, you’re either lying or ignorant,

              You can only be forgiven for trying to deceive others as you have gone to great lengths to device yourself.

              Farage wants the GOOD immigration that benefits us, NOT the MASS immigration we have been burdened with over the last decade.

              • HookesLaw

                We are not getting mass immigration. The tory’s policy is to cut immigration thats a good policy. All we have from Farage is talk that he would somehow do better – not that he ever will since his very presence makes likely a labour govt.
                The Labour party encouraged mass immigration in the past when they ignored the transition rules.
                People come for work not to live that is the only right they have. they have no right to be benefit tourists. The crime is consigning our own people onto benefits instead of not equipping them for a life of work.
                All you are now saying is that immigration is OK and if we left the EU we would still be importing all the workers we need because we cannot recruit them locally. What a joke. You will be telling everybody that on the doorstep will you?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No need to tell them anything, they already know you Camerluvvies are socialist EUSSR lumps.

                • HookesLaw

                  Stop linking the EU with the USSR. Kippers love Putin and want to have his babies.

                  How is the Grand Wizard, Mr Redneck?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  It’s you socialist Camerluvvies who link the EUSSR and the Soviet Union, lad. That’s your model. That’s what you want to create.

                  You’re socialists. It’s what you prefer… authoritarian socialism.

                • HookesLaw

                  Everyone is a socialist to you who is not an Aryan who wears a white sheet over his head.
                  You are an extreme right wing nutjob.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, not everyone is a socialist, lad. But you Camerluvvies are, like all of your LibLabCon socialist clones.

                • HookesLaw

                  Thanks for proving my point but do tell us how the Grand Wizard is.
                  Do you know anything about British politics? Like the way hundreds of thousands of public sector jobs have been lost?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Do you know you’re a Camerluvvie socialist, lad?

                • Wessex Man

                  Have you realised lately that this buffon has run out of any sensible or silly argument so now seeks to answer the voice of reason with racist cant?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Well, he’s getting hysterical, yes, but I think all of the Cameroons are getting that way, much as they’d like to hide it. They’re doomed and they know it now.

                • Lady Magdalene

                  Our puppet Govt has no control over immigration numbers. It can’t, all the time we remain in the EU. That’s a FACT.

              • Wessex Man

                You are relatively new on this blog, don’t get upset at the rantings of one racist maddog like Hooky, who has areal problem with the British.

                • DavEd CamerBand

                  It takes a lot to make me cry.

        • saffrin

          The UK doesn’t have ‘any’ nurses, not real nurses anyway. The reason being is the same reason the UK doesn’t have enough Doctors.
          The single party state wouldn’t train enough, using it as just another excuse for keeping the immigration flood gates wide open.

        • Alexsandr

          its you who is thick. Do you think its right we fail to train enough doctors and nurses, then steal doctors and nurses from countries that sorely need such staff. We should have a proper programme to train our own staff.

        • Wessex Man

          No wonder it’s going to pot with people like you putting in your halfpenny’s worth! heaven help the NHS!

      • Makroon

        It isn’t “rocket science”, it isn’t any kind of science, it’s just tosh.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Well, you Camerluvvies would say that, wouldn’t you?

    • DavEd CamerBand

      Why not just read them in the UKIP manifesto?

      • telemachus

        I asked our local Ukip candidate and all I got was flannel and then the message that the important thig was to stay the tide of immigration and get out of Europe

        • DavEd CamerBand

          Nobody has released their manifesto for 2015 yet you idiot.

          • telemachus

            Then why do your candidates refer to it

            • DavEd CamerBand

              Probably because they saw your gimpness and decided to pounce.

          • HookesLaw

            How is he an idiot when you just said ‘read their manifesto’? Are you really this thick or is it all a pretence to make us lower our guard?

            • DavEd CamerBand

              Read it when it comes out….. You can clearly see I replied saying it hadn’t come out on a previous comment to this idiot who claimed it wasn’t a “credible” manifesto BEFORE I wrote this one. Absolutely no ambiguity even if I hadn’t already informed him that it hadn’t come out yet, as he’d still be able to read it when it came out!

              But my comment has however proved this idiot is a bigot.

              • HookesLaw

                Hillarious. ‘read the manifesto you say rather than ask a kipper at the door. Then you chide him by saying its not out!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Will it be hillarious (sic) when you look up at Dave’s head mounted on that spike, 13 months from now, lad?

                • HookesLaw

                  oooh (sic) !!!!
                  You are so keen to see a real socialist government are you? Personally I am looking forward to seeing your face when Hillary is inaugurated thanks to the work of nutjob tea party loons.

                  Well actually I hope the Republican Party gets its cr@p together and wins in 2016, but I guess you think the Republicans are a bunch of pinko commies.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Not sure what that bizarre segue has to do with the price of fish, lad, but Hillary Clinton and about everybody else in Western politics is more conservative than your hero Call Me Dave, who is a pure socialist, just like you.

                • HookesLaw

                  Hilarious. (I’ll say that again shall I?) HiLarious! Even Hillaryarious.
                  Wonderful. Keep it up. You are becoming amusing. I must say I would never have thought that.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  I must say I never thought you Camerluvvies thought.

                • DavEd CamerBand

                  I’m beginning to understand your disdain for society, I’m certain it stems from a poor education, devoid of intellect – thus your ignorant hatred, or perhaps the wanton destruction in revenge for you substandard education.

                • Wessex Man

                  please Hooky protect yourself and go and get a bit of psychotherapy.

                • DavEd CamerBand

                  The tea party is without doubt the best thing in US politics, where anyone and everyone drinks from the fountain of liberty, its truly wonderful.

                • DavEd CamerBand

                  Well apparently he’s already been to the future and read it as he described it as “not credible”…… or maybe he’s just as ignorant and irrational as you are.

        • Wessex Man

          Ah Tele mate that must have been extremely upsetting for you that a naughty Ukip member wouldn’t give you a paid up communist our policies to try and rubbish before yours are even thought of.

    • Wessex Man

      oh tele, you are a card.

  • In2minds

    Cameron, trust, two words that go well together?

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