Coffee House

Douglas Alexander’s weasel words on Labour’s EU pledge

12 March 2014

12 March 2014

Unsurprisingly, Douglas Alexander’s Today interview about Ed Miliband’s pledge to not give the British people a referendum without saying he’s not giving you a referendum wasn’t the most edifying performance. Alexander admitted that what Miliband is promising is an ‘unlikely’ referendum, saying:

‘He will say that our priority in government would be tackling the cost-of-living crisis and getting the economy back on track, not getting Britain out of Europe. He’ll set out some very practical and I think needed changes to make Europe work better for the United Kingdom. And he’ll also be open that we are not, as a prospective Labour government, proposing a further transfer of powers to Brussels.’

Subscribe from £1 per week


But Labour is proposing reform, just not with the threat that if it doesn’t get what it wants, Britain could leave. Of course, this is what David Cameron would rather he could do, too, because he doesn’t really want to leave the EU and has made that clear enough, and Angela Merkel’s recent visit made it clear enough that he won’t get some of the bigger reforms that some of his colleagues have been pushing for.

But Labour hasn’t made a neat job of this. You know weasels have been working on a policy when the spokesman in broadcast interviews cannot respond to closed questions with the yes/no answer required, but instead a jumble of words about setting out what Miliband will say later. All of which suggests that Europe has fallen into the box of Labour policy areas that need neutralising, which includes welfare and immigration. As I said last might, perhaps Miliband thinks he can win without addressing these areas. But it’s hardly a courageous approach.


More Spectator for less. Subscribe and receive 12 issues delivered for just £12, with full web and app access. Join us.

Show comments
  • gust too

    What milliband and the weasel don’t get is that it’s not purely about Europe but more about the right to choose. It’s about giving us the people the right to choose what we want to do rather than what they tell us what we can do. They support the overseas repressed and yet as a bunch of dictatorial hypocrites they refuse us the right to make our own choice. Who do they think they are. They’ve never done a real job in their life, they come across as a pair of pacifist mice and yet they think they have the right to refuse a basic human right, that of self determination.

  • Maidmarrion

    Ah! So it’s back to ” your turn ,our turn” politics – the Cons promise something IF they are elected and the Labour party withdraw that promise WHEN they are elected.
    Goodness knows what the Liberal party is for – not a lot really, just a bed shifter .

  • Conway

    Angela Merkel’s recent visit made it clear enough that he won’t get some
    of the bigger reforms that some of his colleagues have been pushing
    for.
    ” That ‘some of’ should be ‘any of’ and you can omit the word ‘bigger’.

  • Mark D Graham

    Tory lapdogs. Hope you’ve stocked up on private health insurance you smug bastards.

  • Blazeaway

    Just an observation:

    I attended a UKIP meeting last night at which we welcomed a new member.
    In the 1980s he had been a member of the Militant Tendency which, he said, gave some excitement to a stale political scene.

    He is now retired. He said the UKIP revolt felt like the same challenge to the political establishment that he felt the Militants had offered in the 1980s. He felt a shake-up is needed now.

    The Militants were famously hard-working and I feel we are lucky to have him. I think the Labour Party of the 1980s would be ashamed to see what it has become now.

    Incidentally, we approved a Romanian as a council candidate.

    I think it’s interesting in some way.

    • Raw England

      The Labour party of old was an absolutely, utterly different entity. It was actually comprised of English people, unlike now. And it worked to help the native population.

      Now, Labour is a far Left, mainly foreign entity, working hard AGAINST the native population.

  • Raw England

    So, just to be clear: Milliband (who’s not even ethnically English or British) and Labour are going to, if elected, use the power of government and police to smash all people opposed to immigration, which is the MAJORITY. The ‘Conservatives’ are already bad enough with this; imagine what the sinister Labour will do….

    And, they’re going to openly deny basic democracy to the people on Europe.

    So, Labour is poised to ensure our racial and cultural destruction continues, and that we English become a tiny minority.

    God help us.

    • Wessex Man

      God help us from people like you, I bet you would like the chance to measure peoples noses etc wouldn’t you, get off back to the BNP!

      • Raw England

        How rude, Wessex.

        ; )

  • James Allen

    Strong words from you Isabel – you’re normally so restrained!! :)

  • global city

    The whole MO of the political class, reveling in their ability to use such weasel words and statements is hubris, borne of being allowed to for two decades now by a compliant MSM…. whilst you all go off hunting UKIP, leaving the real filth unexamined.

    Why is this?

    The MSM have helped to sponsor the glib politician who sneers at the media, whilst feeding it sound bites based on lies, because you have all let them, whilst you go hounding the few politicians who do not impose the game. Easy meat? You should all really be ashamed.

    Go after the really dangerous ones and let UKIP’s policies speak for themselves?

  • Pip

    If the period 1997 to 2010 was not enough of a warning to us all as to why Labour can never be allowed to gain power again then this shovel nosed Socialist parasite and fool is a classic example of why voting for Labour will be detrimental to the UKs prosperity and future.

  • http://batman-news.com The Commentator

    Ed Miliband’s real priority in government will be to tax those greedy fat cats who earn more than £40,000 and to lavish yet more borrowed money on the work-less, the work-shy and the criminally inclined. Apparently this is referred to as social justice.

  • http://www.CaerphillyPreserves.co.uk/ No Good Boyo

    I have two words to say to Labour’s guarantee of a referendum in the event of “a major transfer of powers”: European constitution.

  • http://www.CaerphillyPreserves.co.uk/ No Good Boyo

    If Scotland votes for independence, will our Douggie be out of a job? Please say yes

  • v wing

    Douglas Alexander, like William Hague, has been bought and paid for by the Americans.

  • arnoldo87

    There are several Labour M.P.’s and Shadow Ministers that prevaricate like Alexander when asked a simple question on Question Time or in an interview. In fact, it is hard to think of a frontbench Labour politician that is more impressive in this respect than his/her Tory counterpart.

    Come May next year, it is hard to believe that this lack of credibility and debating performance will not tell heavily against Miliband’s party. If EdM is trying to hold out for his 35% victory and in doing so omits to clearly spell out the necessary policy detail then he will surely sink to a well-deserved defeat.

  • BarkingAtTreehuggers

    By voting Labour the people will vote FOR Europe.
    By voting LibDem the people will vote FOR Europe.
    By voting Ukip the people will vote FOR Europe as it splits the vote.

    What other options do you need?
    The deal is done. Further European Integration is coming up.

    • Denis_Cooper

      You seem to have missed out a line there, let me insert it for you:

      “By voting Tory the people will vote FOR Europe.”

      • BarkingAtTreehuggers

        Oh yes, apologies but I was trying to be unambiguous.
        The Tories themselves are in turmoil about what they actually want so I did not list them.

        • Wessex Man

          oh how very very clever of you.

        • James Allen

          So no ambiguity in the fact that enough people voting for UKIP has already raised the chances of a referendum from 0 to 50%, and if more people vote for them they have a genuine chance of building a Westminster parliamentary party that could eventually force a referendum through holding the balance of power (like the Lib Dems now). No ambiguity!!!! Ha ha ha …. you’re a right one, you….

          Now go back to bed.

      • Wessex Man

        he missed the tree as well!

    • James Allen

      Funny how a vote for the only AGAINST party is a vote FOR Europe. With your twisted logic you’d fit right in at a Labour party rally….

  • realfish

    I am amazed (not really) that no one at the BBC, this morning, bothered to ask Alexander about Labour reneging on its promise to give the people a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty; nor on the consequences of that betrayal in signing away the fundamental rights of the UK to an undemocratic EU, nor on the ‘negotiated opt outs’ that have now been found to be worthless.

    • Mynydd

      Lisbon Treaty that was Cast Iron Dave.

      • realfish

        I’m speechless

      • Fergus Pickering

        ave signed the Lisbon Treaty, did he? Do you know, I could swear it was Broon.

        • realfish

          ‘Do you know, I could swear it was Broon’

          In the dead of night…out of the sight of prying eyes…avoiding all ceremony.

          BTW: I reckon that Mynydd must work for the BBC, who erased 1997 – 2010 from our consciousness. Every disastrous turn that was made in those years was the fault of Cameron (or Thatcher).

        • BarkingAtTreehuggers

          It was Millipede the Elder.

      • Tony Quintus

        No, it wasn’t, it was always Tory policy to have a Referendum on Lisbon if it hadn’t been given royal ascent before the election, once it was law it was impossible to undo without leaving the EU. If you want to talk cast iron how about Labour’s pledge to give a referendum on the EU constitution vanishing when all they did to make the Lisbon treaty was swap over the title page?

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Gordon Brown signed the Lisbon treaty and Cameron could hardly have held a referendum once the bill had received Royal assent. So yet another lie nailed.

    • Makroon

      Fair comment, but I was actually rather gratified that, for once, Ms Sarah Montague gave wee Dougie a vigorous going over. (She will probably receive a rebuke from Naughtie).

  • Denis_Cooper

    Despite Labour’s apparently strong position in the opinion polls:

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

    Miliband may come to regret nailing his EU colours to the mast at this point.

    Like the LibDems he wishes to ensure that the British people will never be able to make a free decision on proposed EU treaty changes; in the unlikely event that a referendum was ever triggered it would be straight into “Either accept these changes to the EU treaties, or leave the EU altogether”, and the people would vote under that duress.

    So the British people would never be allowed to delay the process of “ever closer union” decreed by their betters in the same way that the Irish people have done not once but twice – the first time in 2001 when they rejected the EU treaty changes embodied in the Nice Treaty, and had to be made to vote again, and the second time in 2008 when they rejected the EU treaty changes embodied in the Lisbon Treaty, and had to be made to vote again.

    There would never be any need to hold a repeat referendum and bully the British people into reversing their previous rejection of proposed treaty changes with threats that a second “no” would be taken as a vote to leave the EU, even though there is actually no mechanism in the existing EU treaties for a member state to be expelled for any reason whatsoever, because that bullying would start straight away and would in fact be prescribed by law, Miliband’s new version of the “referendum lock”.

    It should be self-evident that it will probably always be much easier for a pro-EU government to win an “in-out” referendum than to win a referendum just on the latest proposed EU treaty changes to further integration; that has been the message from opinion polls for a long time, and here is one from only last month:

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/pv0teijo60/YG-Archive-140221-OpenEurope-British.pdf

    When asked what they would prefer to happen about the EU and given various options, this was how the 2141 people in the sample split:

    “A more politically and economically integrated Europe, with substantially more decisions taken at the European level”: 10%

    “The situation more or less as it is now”: 15%

    “A less integrated Europe than now with substantially more decisions taken at a national or local level”: 37%

    “Complete British withdrawal from the European Union”: 24%

    “Don’t Know”: 14%

    If a referendum was just about treaty changes to further integration then it would be relatively easy to assemble a majority against that, 24% + 37% + 15% = 67%; if instead that referendum was presented as being a decision on whether to stay in the EU or to leave the EU then it would be a great struggle to build up an “out” majority based on the present core “out” vote of 24%.

  • Peter Stroud

    Miliband does nothing to contradict the impression, that he is unable to make up his mind about anything.

    • realfish

      I’m not so sure that it is indecisiveness. As usual, he is waiting to see which way the bandwagon will roll.

      • Denis_Cooper

        No, he has nailed his EU colours to the mast, in fact the same mast as the LibDems, and it would be very difficult to change his policy before the next election even if the Tories closed and then started to reverse his current lead in the polls, which is about 5%:

        http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

        Bear in mind that because the LibDems blocked the boundary changes the Tories still need to be about 6% ahead of Labour to have a chance of winning an overall majority in the Commons, in fact they didn’t achieve that in May 2010 even though they were then 7% ahead of Labour.

        At present he feels under no pressure to do something that he really doesn’t want to do, but even if that was to change it would be difficult for him to announce that he’d changed his mind and then go into the next election with a different policy.

        • Alexsandr

          he might if labour supporting anti eu people start changing their voting intentions to UKIP.

          • Denis_Cooper

            I guess that this could knock a percentage point or two off Labour’s poll rating, and with most of that lost support going to UKIP rather than the Tories whose own policy has already been thoroughly discredited.

            As I recall it was thought that Cameron sacrificed about 3% of the Tory party’s support when he announced his abject surrender over the Lisbon Treaty in November 2009, and the Tories gained about 4% when Cameron stood up to Merkel at the end of 2011 – all of which was lost afterwards when it became clear that she was going ahead with her “fiscal pact” anyway, and despite earlier threats he was going to allow the EU institutions to be used for that purpose, as can be seen here:

            http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/polls.html

            So while its decisions about the EU can obviously have an effect on a party’s overall poll ratings the likely magnitude of that effect should not be exaggerated.

            Even if this cost Labour say 2% of its present support and all those angry people switched their support to the Tories, which of course they wouldn’t, that effect alone would still leave Labour with a comfortable margin over the Tories and heading for a majority.

            I’d say that this will probably be bad news for the Labour candidates for the EU Parliament elections, but then they don’t matter much anyway. If Labour got no MEPs at all in May that would be a cause for celebration, but it would be very unlikely to greatly harm Labour’s chances of winning the next general election.

            • Alexsandr

              the one thing Harold Wilson got right was when he said ‘A week is a long time in politics’
              (Yes I know when he said this is in question)

      • Conway

        Perhaps he’s waiting for the results of a focus group.

    • Pip

      Miliband will always be constrained and hampered by his Marxist Indoctrination and is unfit for Government.

    • James Allen

      Absolutely right. They call it “marquee” politics apparently; trying to bring everyone onside by going out of his way not to commit to anything. I hope it’s a sign of weakness or internal unrest, but he’s probably just a ditherer…..

  • Bert

    Douglas Alexander typifies Labour as the party of lies, lying and liars.

    Patronising and smug, he is a great reason for Scotland to leave the UK.
    He gives weasels a bad name.

    • Makroon

      Ha-ha, wee Dougie even looks like a weasel.

  • alabenn

    Miliband joins Cameron in the trying to sell a pig in a poke, but witless Ed tries it without the pretence of a promise to hold a referendum.
    They truly believe the public are completely without any mental capacity whatsoever.
    Next year will prove that one way or the other.

    • HookesLaw

      Idiot.
      Farage is the one selling a big in a poke – like Salmond – he says we must come out but suggests nothing as an alternative. The reality is that beinjg Out of the EU but joining the EEA and remaining in the single maket is not really different to being In – except that we lose any votes and vetoes on EU decisions.
      Farage is peddling a big lie.

      • Alexsandr

        who says we join the EEA? OK, its an option but not cast in stone like you say.

      • Tony Quintus

        We are already in the EEA, you are thinking of EFTA, which isn’t what UKIP wants either, they want the swiss model, a seperate treaty on any change and the absolute right to not sign up to anything which is not in Britain’s best interest.

      • Pip

        Now that you start insulting people its time to call you the idiot and fool you are, few here care for your opinions so why don’t you just Foxtrot Oscar to the Guardian where your pathetic unintelligent views will be better appreciated and received, you idiot.

        • Wessex Man

          no he’s too toxic for a silly old newsrag like the Guardian, he’s on a retainer with The Mail and Telegraph!

      • James Allen

        Eh? Out, we determine our own trade policy through bilateral agreements.
        In, we stick with an unfair, one-sided arrangement with the Brussels bully-boys.

      • Wessex Man

        His whoppers would have along way to go to catch up with the whoppers of Call me Dave, Milipede, Cleggover and you!

  • swatnan

    Leaving Europe would be like sleepwalking over a precipice into an unfathomable abyss. Unthinkable. So why have a Referendum that would make it happen?

    • Pootles

      For democratic reasons ? To allow the people to have a say in an issue of fundamental (i.e., not just a policy matter) importance. Your comment could just as well apply to the Scottish referendum re the UK, and, again, the issue is one of democratic choice.

    • Michael Mckeown

      Seriously? We managed very well to micromanage ourselves for a millennium so leaving the EU and replacing it with a free trade agreement like we do with other countries would serve the purpose of the EU.

    • Tom Allalone

      Under what conditions do you believe in democracy? Only when the vote will go your way?

    • Conway

      Why is it unthinkable? I suppose you thought we’d be annihilated if we hadn’t joined the euro.

  • BigAl

    BBC carpet bombs the air waves with positive spin on remaining in Europe

    • James Strong

      Really?
      Every BBC news bulletin I’ve heard today has led with the negative: ‘Ed Miliband will NOT…’
      Positive would be ‘Ed Miliband commits to staying in…’, wouldn’t it?
      Will you, can you, give quotes and timings to support your assertion?
      I think quite a bit of the BBC bias meme is comments like yours re-inforcing other comments like yours, with no precise references.
      John Humphrys’ recent comments do not justify the description ‘carpet bombs’ and had no precision.
      I’m open to changing my mind on this in the face of evidence, but not on this comment.
      Yesterday a commenter on The Telegraph imagined that if the allegations in the Nigel Evans case were about a UKIP member then the BBC would have
      devoted an hour to it instead of skirting round the issue. The comment got loads of upticks, even though the ‘evidence’ was completely imaginary.

      • Colonel Mustard

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10235967/BBC-is-biased-toward-the-left-study-finds.html

        http://biasedbbc.org/blog/category/bbc-bias/

        http://www.cps.org.uk/files/reports/original/130814102945-BBCBiasOliverLathamfc.pdf

        http://bbcinstitutionalbias.blogspot.co.uk/

        “John Humphreys believes the BBC is “grotesuely over managed” and has always had a “broadly liberal bias” admitting that its coverage on such issues as immigration and the EU have not been sufficiently sceptical.”

        http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1953/exclusive_bbc_left_wing_political_bias_illustrated_through_uk_political_funding_revelations

        By all means continue to challenge individual comments and perceptions as though you are in a court of law demanding specific evidence, whilst choosing to ignore the mass of gathered empirical evidence of which the above links are only a small proportion. That is the nature of elephants in rooms and asking “Where exactly did you see this elephant, quotes and timings please” is rather ridiculous.

        I watch the BBC and my perception is that it is not just biased but corrupted and that on many occasions it has peddled what amounts to blatant left wing propaganda. That is my perception and I am not alone. And it is a perception not a prosecution case.

        • Pip

          Totally corrupted by Blair and New Labour to the point that it is now merely a Socialist/EU Propaganda Machine which the people are forced to fund through the Licence Fee, Goebbels and Stalin would have been proud.

        • James Strong

          Thank you, Colonel.I’ve looked at the first 4 links you gave.
          Over the last couple of years I’ve looked at BiasedBBC many times. I dismiss it now because it is nearly all along the lines of ‘I didn’t like the way the BBC reported this.’

          • Colonel Mustard

            Waffle.

            “People will see that and think, ‘Yes, they must be right.'”

            Really? I don’t think you understand how it works.

            “The regulars here, telemachus aside, are all biased.”

            telemachus is not biased? Well knock me over with a feather.

            • James Strong

              Firstly, you are right about my telemachus
              comment. In a rush I omitted to say that the regulars here, telemachus aside, are all biased towards towards the right. .
              My fault on that, clearly.
              Otherwise you are wrong. My comment is not waffle, it is no longer than it needs to be when arguing against a consensus view.
              As an example, you’d need to write longer in support of a claim, ‘Ed Miliband should never be PM’ to a Labour audience than to a Conservative audience.
              A further example, I believe Barrack Obama was elected by racists, motivated by mistaken bleeding-heart guilt. How many words do you think I’d need to explain that to an audience of Democrats?
              Also do you really believe that people don’t look at upticks and think ‘Yes, that must be right’ and then not look at the links.
              They seek confirmation, and when they find it most are satisfied and don’t look further. It’s a cognitive bias and if you deny it then ,quite simply and starkly, it’s you that doesn’t understand how it works.
              The BBC more or less reflects mainstream view of the UK chattering classes. Yes, that has a bias, no opinions are without bias, but its extent seems worse to you because you’re not in the mainstream.

          • Conway

            If you think that telemachus is the only unbiased contributor, I’m afraid the credibility of your entire contribution has just been holed below the waterline!

            • James Strong

              Clearly you are right and I was wrong.
              As I have just replied to the colonel, the regulars here, apart from telemachus, are biased towards the right.
              I wrote in a rush and made a clear error in not readibg it through.

      • Makroon

        Correct. But today, the DT had a story that Farage had used “public money” to employ his mistress and wife. It transpires that the “public money” was MEP expenses, and he is perfectly at liberty to employ whom he wishes.
        As a non-UKIPper, I see this story as typical low-life, “red-top” muck-raking – of a sort that would have caused the original, non-comic, DT to curl it’s lip. Changing times.

    • James Allen

      Radio 4 an hour ago….

      “So let’s ask a businessman whether Ed’s referendum (non) pledge will be attractive to business”…

      Enter: Martin Sorrell

      Next, interview with William Hague about EU….

      Then discussion with Chuka Umunna and Ed Davey.

      Any chance of an anti-EU spokesperson being offered a say? Not that I heard …. despite a majority of the public being in favour of exit …. (Then again, I can’t listen to Ed Davey without vomiting, so had to switch over. Was there an interview with UKIP afterwards?…. Anyone know?)

      • global city

        or even less likely, the presenter taking the counter view as they usually do… or even just ask pertinent questions.

        • James Allen

          Yes, Martha was useless with Hague, letting him get away with all kinds of half-truths and misrepresentations. The BBC has their default narrative and they’ll stick to it.

    • Conway

      They have received quite a lot of money from the EU, after all (which they tried desperately to keep secret).

  • In2minds

    Lord Mandelson approves this trick, that tells you a lot !

    • DWWolds

      It tells you everything you need to know about the greasy spin that is at the heart of the Labour Party.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Labour the party of lies, lying and liars.

        • Conway

          It should be adopted as their motto.

    • telemachus

      Mandelson is the architect of success

      *

      The “Europe has fallen into the box of Labour policy areas that need neutralising, which includes welfare and immigration” is the most ridiculous statement in a thread that says nothing
      *
      This is a read my lips moment when reasonable voters(ie not racist ukippers) will know what to vote for in May 2015

      • helicoil

        What about non racist ukippers?

        • telemachus

          All the same
          There were members of the SS who did not agree with the final solution

          • Wessex Man

            no you are not, you are far too sick in the head to be him, Stalin maybe?

            • Pootles

              Or Beria?

              • telemachus

                You know well the esteem in which Joe is now held by Russian Youth

                • Pootles

                  those that are keen on the Red-Brown alliance?

                • telemachus

                  I was recently in Yekateringburg and he is universally revered as a strong man who delivered them from murderous German hegemony and gave them National Pride

                • Pootles

                  Excellent. That will be the same place where the horrid Bolshies murdered the Tsar and his children, threw them down a mine, pouring acid on their bodies? You don’t think that sort of behaviour helped create the Bolsheviks mirror image – Nazism – by any chance do you?

                • global city

                  So, you support ubernationalism!!!

                  I have just written above about how you are intellectually all over the place.
                  The most inconsistent poster on these threads!

                • telemachus

                  The theme is the destruction of those who keep to themselves and their own the economic levers
                  *
                  Think about it

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Ah, again the thinly veiled warning of violence against those the revolution chooses to demonise.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Yes I was waiting for the threat. First the dishonesty and then the threat of violence That is the Fascist scum of today’s Labour party for you.

                • global city

                  I’d agree, but you all too often apply the dogmatic hatememe toward anything to do with western mores and ‘nationalism’.

                • Tom Allalone

                  The same murderous Germans whom Stalin was supplying with war materials right up to the day Barbarossa began? The same murderous Germans to whom Stalin sent anti-Nazi refugees? And this is the big brave Uncle Joe had a nervous breakdown when Hitler invaded, leaving Molotov to break it to the Russians. About the only part of the Stalin story that raises one’s spirits is tha he died alone and, almost certainly, in a great deal of pain and fear.

                  On a wider point, you obviously think you’re being highly amusing and brave when you post but anyone defending Stalin or Mao is moral garbage. It’s the political equivalent of supporting the PIE

                • Wessex Man

                  Don’t tell lies, you’ve never been anywhere except on here lying your head off!

          • global city

            Yeah. The only thing they had in common with the ones who pulled the triggers and poured the xyclon was a love of socialism and dogma.

        • Mark D Graham

          there arnt any, youre all immigrant hating xenophobes

          • helicoil

            Thanks for that sweeping generalisation, by your same logic labour must be stuffed with paedo lovers.

      • Wessex Man

        are you John Prescott in disguise?

        • telemachus

          John Prescott had more caring in his little toe than the whole current Cabinet

          • saffrin

            Prescott talks the talk but soon showed his true colours when Bliar bribed him with the deputy PM salary to shut-up.

            Prescot is just another Michael Martin, in it for the easy money.

          • global city

            You are all over the place. You need to look to the nasty elites that infected so much of the continent for so many decades to find a comparison to Mandelson.

            He would have you off to the gulag in an instant if he had the incontestable power that he desires, and people like you wish him and his clique to have.

            Lunatics…all of you!

          • Colonel Mustard

            He is a barely literate oaf who should have been prosecuted for common assault.

    • Makroon

      It is precisely the Brown trick on the Lisbon treaty.

  • Pootles

    We have an option – voting for UKIP. The more of us that do, the greater the pressure on the Lib/Lab/Con mobsters. Who knows, they might even begin to respond to the electorate. Mind you, given the way they have responded to other issues – Iraq, mass immigration – I suppose I had better not hold my breath.

    • HookesLaw
      • Pootles

        And our other choices ? What have they brought us – the EU = biggest loss of sovereignty in our history; unnecessary and unwanted wars costing the lives of hundreds of thousands, the loss of thousands of our people, the loss of billions to our exchequer; mass unemployment for decades; an out of control benefits system that is marked by ridiculous unwanted outcomes; mass immigration to the point that key English cities are no longer English; a housing crisis that will leave young people unable to own their homes; a Metropolitan elite that neither knows nor cares about life as lived by the overwhelming majority of the people. Nutjobs ? Yes, they’re in power, and in opposition.

        • Denis_Cooper

          Of course if somebody is so disgusted with all three of the old parties that they can’t bring themselves to vote for any of them then they do have another choice, which is not to vote at all.

          But rather than genuinely wasting their vote by not using it they might as well give, or lend, it to UKIP as a more positive step, and ignore the supporters of the present political cartel joining together to chorus that a vote for UKIP is a wasted vote.

      • WatTylersGhost

        “Nutjobs” how is that Tory Nigel Evans trial going?

        Several meanings of “nuts” in that affair.

        • Wessex Man

          and bangers!

      • global city

        You may as well just write blah, blah, blahdeblah, blah blah, nowadays, as all your posts basically say the same thing…and it’s always bollox!

      • Wessex Man

        I wonder why the Spectator took down my reply to Hooky, not at all happy, I listed all the Tory misdeeds from 2010 to 2014 as reported by the Daily Mail and the Daily Telegrpah. I also suggested that Hooky might be now involved in the dirty tricks campaign organised by the Tory Party.

        Some of the Tory Party finest who were actually involved in sleazy stuff, not made up fantasy by Tory supporting papers about my party are.

        Tim Yeo, Patrick Mercer, Lord Hanningfield (twice), Aidan Burley, Maria Miller and dear old Nigel Evans.

        • Makroon

          Let’s not be selective. Politics always has and always will attract more than it’s fair share of chancers, conmen and predators, and that applies to all parties, including ‘your party’.

          • Wessex Man

            I’m not being ‘selective’ at all, I just feel that when people like Hooky are able to list a load of lies invented by a disturbed ex member and yes I accept that she is, I should have been allowed to answer with actual true facts about the dear old Tories from 2010 to 2014 and boy arn’t there plenty!

            The reason that the Mail and the Telegraph are running such garbage is that UKip has won all the arguments about costs to us of this crazy EU, so now they are trying all the dirty tricks in the book!

      • global city

        Do you know how embarrassing it is for a grown man to be seen to be so clingy to a political party?

Close
Can't find your Web ID? Click here