How many people would lay down their lives for the European Union?

4 March 2014

11:05 AM

4 March 2014

11:05 AM

Whatever Russia does in the Ukraine, we know that Britain isn’t going to do much more than say ‘dear, dear’, something that was accidentally revealed when a British official was photographed bringing a document to Downing St stating as much.

We’re not going to help for a number of reasons, one of which is that Ukraine is incredibly complicated and historically and psychologically is sort of a part of Russia, or at least the eastern half is. As for the Crimea, Russia certainly has as much right to that province as the Albanians have to Kosovo.

Russia is a great power with legitimate claims to that region, and unlike Iraq, they really do have weapons of mass destruction. So pourquoi mourir pour Donetsk?


The US could possibly bluff the Russians into submission, but why would they, with such huge risks? What would it prove? The idea that allowing the Russians to hold onto the Crimea suggests some huge decline in American power is strange, considering that a quarter of a century ago the United States’ power reached as far as Bavaria, and it now surrounds Russia on almost all sides.

I’m not sure the European Union can have such an excuse, and if any good comes of this I hope it is that people start to consider what Europe means. Ukraine is a European country whose people, at least its western half, wish to be part of the European Union, and whose territory is now occupied by another state. If the EU can’t do anything about that, then what is the point of the EU?

It can’t, and the reason is this – there isn’t one man on earth who would be prepared to lay down his life for the European Union. Not one. It’s a nation for people who don’t like nations. In contrast I bet a lot of Russians would die for Russia; despite the oppression they invariably suffer at the hands of every one of their rulers, they love their country.

The EU is a post-national, universalist dream based on an idea of indiscriminate altruism. A great idea, so long as everyone else on earth practises it, but unfortunately in the real world no one else does. Not Russia, not China, not the states of the Middle East. And soft power only works so long as it is backed up by an army and an economy to fund it, something that the Europeans, cosseted for two generations by American military protection, have forgotten.

The irony is that lots of people love Europe, but it is a Europe that the Commission finds repulsive; the real Europe, that of Greece, Rome and, most of all, Christendom, not a post-national world without borders but one that has always identified itself by its separation from the lands of Islam and to a lesser extent the Asiatic empire of Moscow.

But that would sound too much like exclusive patriotism, the very thing that the European project was supposed to replace, and by doing so ending war on the continent. Brussels, as the saying goes, you had one job.

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Show comments
  • meltemian

    You’ve got it in a nutshell, the EU isn’t a ‘nation’ it’s purely a political construct and absolutely no-one feels any attachment to it.

  • Cindy

    I specifically stress that Germany, france, Britain, America(john Kerry)Canada (harper)Australia,israel will be finished you are the very countries which should be wiped out then any other xenophobic countries will follow such as Serbia,austria,nordic countries. we fn hate you all. we also will be closely monitoring all of your sneaky intentions as you are now under our conspicuation.dare to fight our people then my suggestion is to you go right ahead! you will di and funding wont exist for you as your economy is collapsing.

  • Cindy

    all Europeans should rot and stay within your own continent after all you people are the very people who are always sanctioning Russia and competing with the Asian customs, when your union goes down nobody and I mean NOBODY from asia will give a crap and will be laughing at all of you white snakes who try to conspire and beastly try to position yourselves to stoop to a whole new level just to aid America in supporting their imperialistic ways. whites in Europe are going to be no more and im glad you people get what you deserve. you make your bed you lie in it. you had the chance to not sanction Russia but you did now the cards are in play and you are going to be responsible for your very own destruction.

  • Paul Dresden

    The whole point is that, having started two World Wars, Europeans no longer have to kill each other – because we sort out our problems as a family rather than having small minded nationalism drag us into conflict. I love the European Union.

  • Millie_Woods

    I will gladly lay down my life for the EU. But first I must live a life of relative luxury without working for it, followed by a nice retirement with a fully indexed pension. After which I want the best life-extending healthcare the taxpayer can muster and to live out my last days in a taxpayer funded hospice. My last thoughts will be of the EU, I promise.

  • uberwest

    I daresay the number is tiny compared to the number who will have their lives laid down by the EU

  • John in Brum

    With a bit of luck it will be the Euro bigwigs first, followed by anybody that has an expense account of more than £500 per year.

  • justejudexultionis

    At least half of the population of the Ukraine would, Ed.

    • Kit Ingoldby

      No. Half of the population of the Ukraine might be prepared to die for the Ukraine, not for the European Union.

      A big difference.

  • saffrin

    David Dimbleby will surely die during the Clegg v Nigel TV debate. Nigel Farage will so point out Dimbleby’s pro-EU bias.

  • WorkBuyConsumeDie

    remember one thing: no one can force you to shoot- even if they put a gun in your hands.. when it comes to war- never allow to be provoked.. if necessary die for you country not for eu.. it gave you nothing but restraints and requiremenst.. and demands..

  • beenzrgud

    I certainly wouldn’t put my life on the line for the EU, and I wouldn’t recommend anyone else should either. Besides, I very much doubt you’d get any thanks.

    • saffrin

      ‘elf and safety wouldn’t allow it.

  • Gixxerboy

    The headline is the definitive rhetorical question

  • pp22pp

    One day I looked out onto a London street and I ceased to define myself as British. I have nothing in common with a large proportion of my compatriots. I now define myself as white.

    That means i have even less time for Brussels than I do for Westminster. I don’t know what to think of Putin, but he does not seem to be plotting the destruction of his own people.

  • Randy McDonald

    “Ukraine is a European country whose people, at least its western half,
    wish to be part of the European Union, and whose territory is now
    occupied by another state.”

    That simple desire alone does not a European Union member-state make, any more than the desire of some Britons for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union makes the UK a non-EU country.

    • RaymondDance

      The UK became a non-EU country the day we decided not to join the currency union.

      • Randy McDonald

        … And yet the United Kingdom is still a member-state of the European Union.

        Eurozone membership isn’t required for EU membership; Eurozone members are a subset of European Union members, rather.

        • RaymondDance

          ‘Eurozone membership isn’t required for EU membership’.

          The destination of the EU is single statehood. That requires a single currency.

  • Daniel Maris

    If Scotland can leave the UK, Crimea can leave Ukraine. But not until the Russian soldiers are back in base and there is a democratic process.

  • Mike

    Why would anyone be prepared to lay down their life for a bunch of unelected commissioners like Van Rompuy, Barrosso or that ‘ranting fishwife’ Viviane Reding. All of them are on the EU gravy train, all of them expect the British tax payer to bail out the folly of the Eurozone and none of them are accountable.

    Whilst the PIIGS are still living like parasites off the northern EU states and their corruption continues apace, why should we pay towards this dysfunctional club let alone put our lives on the line.

    When the EU commission shows intent to curb the blatant corruption in Spain, Italy and Greece (to name just 3) perhaps we might have some confidence in the EU’s future but for now they pay lip service to what is fair and what the EU rules are to avoid rocking the boat.

  • chris_xxxx

    Someone should tell the idiot Dan Hodges. His warmongering cries on the Daily Telegraph are getting tedious.

    • Andy

      Don’t be unkind. He only has one eye so can’t shoot straight.

  • global city

    I’ve just watched Farage’s latest conference speech… and I can see why the MSM ripped into a tiny part of it, because the rest was absolutely solid.

    If they had reported the highlights, as they do for every other party leader’s speech, then more across the country would have been persuaded to vote for them in the EU elections.

  • Baron

    Excellent piece, Ed, drawing alot on common sense.

    Baron has just watched the confrontation between the Ukrainian airmen and a Russian unit trying to prevent them entering the base. What the British journalist who accompanied the marching Ukrainians didn’t spot (he obviously doesn’t speak Russian) was the men on the opposing sides knew each other well, one of the marching Ukrainians was shouting to another one on the Russian side: ‘Anton, not another beer then?’

    It breaks Baron’s heart, not because he comes from the Slavonic phylum, or has any any time for Putin, any other of the autocrats there, but because of his admiration for the maligned Ivan, the simple, ordinary man of Russia, who for centuries had known nothing but suffering, pain and often death, most recently in WW2 when he lost more men, women and children than any other race. Not that the conditions under which he lives today are so fundamentally different, but they are unquestionably better, better than at any time before going back centuries.

    And the fugging Brussels apparatchiks must engineer a friction between what essentially are the same peoples. Baron isn’t a vengeful man, never has been, but this is different. Plague and pestilence on the bastards, he says.

    • Randy McDonald

      The Ukrainians insist that they aren’t the same people. That insistence, incidentally, does not mean that Ukrainians can’t also be friendly with Russians.

      • CraigStrachan

        Freud called it the narcissism of minor difference. To be fair, there’s a lot of it about.

        • Randy McDonald

          Doesn’t it strike you as a sign of worrisome arrogance when one nation insists that another doesn’t exist, notwithstanding the latter’s insistence that it does?

          • CraigStrachan

            It would, but I don’t see Russia insisting that Ukraine doesn’t exist as a nation.

      • Baron

        Who insist? All of them?

        More to the point, we are all different, not just as individuals, but as groups of individuals, too. Ss races, we are as close as it gets for large numbers.

        You and the English have been coupled for longer, you still insist on going it separately. Both you and the English would revolt if Putin wanted to attach Scotland to his Empire, the equivalent of the EU absorbing Ukraine into theirs.

        • Randy McDonald

          Baron, I’m Canadian.

          • Airey Belvoir

            Randy, of course you are. With a name like that,what else could you be?

  • tolpuddle1

    “The EU is a post-national internationalist dream” – just like today’s Britain, in fact.

    Who would lay down their lives for today’s Britain ? Only a few young lads looking for comradeship and adventure.

  • Doggie Roussel

    Ed West has noted that 22% of Old Etonians who joined the war effort in WWI were slaughtered and he was correct, although the contribution from the officer class from other public schools was mostly on a par with this figure.

    This hideous war, with its unbelievable slaughter among all ranks and all the nationalities involved was primarily the result of a squabble among the predominantly German ruling families of the United Kingdom and Germany; the Saxe-Coburg-Gothas, who now ponce a very comfortable existence from their continued indulgence from the British electorate.

    Everyone should read the late Alan Clark’s book Lions Led By Donkeys to get a realistic picture of the slaughter inflicted on so many by so few… incompetent and arrogant officers from all sides of the conflict.

    • Andy

      It was not. The Great War had its origin in ‘state sponsored terrorism’. And actually the United Kingdom was the last power to enter the war to defend Belgium. It was Russia who mobilised her army first that probably caused the war. The Kaiser actually went on holiday, yachting on the Hollenzolen.

    • Daniel Maris

      The idea that the German ruling family of UK had any real say in the decision to go to war is risible. Even the Kaiser could not have gone to war without the backing of the Reichstag and the political elite.

      It was, primarily, a war of empires. Imperialism never recovered from the great conflagration which exposed the hollowness of imperialism as a doctrine.

    • ADW

      Clark’s book is arrogant, discredited amateur nonsense. Try reading a proper historian eg richard Holmes or Gary Sheffield

    • justejudexultionis

      Alan Clark was a scoundrel of the highest order. The fact that he used to get on well with Alastair Campbell says it all.

  • Ricky Strong

    The EU, never. For my fellow Europeans in the face of the rising tide of Islam, sure.

  • Doggie Roussel

    why can I not join the discussion?

  • Dorothy

    Hear, hear.

  • Keith D

    Certainly not. Although I’d fight and die for my grandchildrens future. You know, the one Labour sold to rub our noses in it.

    • Samuel Kaine Wheeler

      Will you love your children, or great-grandchildren, less if they happen to have a Polish surname, or have a bit more melanin then you?

  • Hexhamgeezer

    I can just see the poster; ‘Baroness’ Ashton staring and pointing “Your Europe of the Regions needs YOU!”

    • Kevin T

      I would love to see polling done on “Who is Baroness Ashton?” I don’t think she’s ever even done an interview with one of the political programmes that anyone watches. It’s ludicrous she is representing us on the EU Commission, the lawmaking body in the EU.

      • Doggie Roussel

        The reason she does not give any interviews is that she cracks any camera in front of her…

      • Tim Reed

        “Risen without trace”.

    • GUBU

      Ten thousands swords will never leap from their scabbards to avenge a look that threatens Baroness Ashton with insult.

    • Tom M


    • Doggie Roussel

      Baroness Ashton is the female version of the elephant man… she is the Elephant Woman of the EU… and certainly not me, or any of my children are going to offer to die for the continuation of her freebies…

    • Noa

      The face that munched a thousand chips.

    • revkevblue

      I know what she Dam well needs.

  • Eyesee

    The question is a good one, because those of a moral bent, who would stand up and be counted on a point of principle hate the EU for exactly those reasons. And the people who get the most out of it, bureaucrats and politicians have no intention of standing up for it. They live by the creed ‘ask not what you can do for the EU, but what more the EU can do for you’. (With the sub line) ‘The people will pay’.

  • Thoughtful Skeptic

    This article is getting so many things so wrong that it is hard to figure out where to start.

    The “European Dream” was never about replacing nationalities etc but about making Europe more than just the sum of its parts, harnessing synergies and getting things done, that individual members on their own would struggle to achieve. And there are many areas where the EU has managed to do exactly that.

    “If the EU can’t do anything about that, then what is the point of the EU?”

    First of all it can, but indeed, war is not among those options. If someone thinks war alone can be the reason d’etre for a supranational entity I can only belittle him or her. Russias weak point is not its army. Engaging in a war against Russia would be madness or at least a very bloody undertaking. Its economy is however its soft side and the economy is already now taking a hard beating, merely because of market mechanisms. Contrary to common opinion Russia has more to loose economically than the EU from a souring of the relationship. Economic sanctions would hurt Russia a lot.

    • gerontius

      “This article is getting so many things so wrong that it is hard to figure out where to start.”
      Seems a reasonable enough article to me.
      tell us what some of these wrong things are.

      • mightymark

        Well, one is that it isn’t really the EU’s function – rather it would be for NATO to respond. Given that that would involve the US as part of the alliance on which our defence had been based for 60 years or so, any imprudent failure to respond would be worrying indeed. And a damned sight more so than anything arising out of yet another bit of Speccie EU bashing – however much that might excite its readers.,

      • Thoughtful Skeptic

        As mightymark mentioned, especially the Uk but also others have been working tirelessly on preventing the EU from gaining any meaningful military capabilities. I don’t necessarily criticize that, but please don’t complain afterwards when the EU has no meaningful military capabilities as Ed West seems to do above.

        The EU is running a highly integrated single market in case anyone has noticed. Such a thing is only possible with a certain degree of political union. Even though there are some growing voices which doubt the benefit of that single market I think it is still widely accepted that it gives a big advantage. Apart from that the EU grants a lot of freedoms, like the free movement of people, goods, capital and a growing range of service. Not to forget about the European sphere of academic research, a very good example of “harnessing synergies”.

        The article above also claims that the EU is about overcoming nationalities. I am not sure why anyone is so afraid of loosing national identities. Scotland is part of a bigger nation for how many centuries now? Has it lost its identity because of it? And why should member states loose their national identity just because they are member of a confederation.

        • Tim

          EU Spy Alert !!!

          Do I win a tenner ?

        • Roger Daily

          I hear some of their regulations on lawnmowers are the envy of the modern world.

          • Thoughtful Skeptic

            A single market needs harmonized regulations. Funnily all those regulations were rarely a matter of controversy as long as there existed 28 different ones for each niche issue. But when they get harmonized into one single regulation, often with a very similar if not identical content they suddenly become a big matter of ridicule. It is one of the great myths, that without the EU those regulations would go away. No, they would stay the same or even multiply 28-fold again.

          • Millie_Woods

            Roger, I know I’m late to the discussion, but your comment about lawn mowers is a zinger!

            Sir, the barbarians are storming the walls.

            Tell them that just this morning we’ve passed a resolution on the maximum torque for jam jar lids. Women will never need a man to open her jam again.

            • Roger Daily

              Quite right. Without the EU to protect the right of women to open their own jam jars, women everywhere would be treated as inferiors. What we need now is some sort of government agency employing at least 20,000 people to supervise all of this.

    • Ed West

      ‘harnessing synergies’ – it’s not quite St Crispin’s Day speech is it?

      • Samuel Kaine Wheeler

        Some of us don’t feel the exhortation to die for the dynastic glory of a Plantagenet robber-baron particularly stirring either, nor for some Near Eastern lizard stabber.

    • Tom M

      In regards to your “European Dream” paragraph I would agree. The EU was never designed to be a democracy as the voting public fondly think it should be. It was designed to be, as you allude, a supranational technocracy to carry out all the matters which time limited and competence lite national governments would find difficult to do. The trouble is it has exceeded it’s remit.
      As far as the Ukraine goes it is absolutely nothing to do with the EU at all (although they can’t bring themselves not to tinker with it). The EU is not and should be prevented from ever becoming an expansionist entity in it’s own right. The EU has no remit to impose any doctrine, political or economic, on another country.

    • sfin

      I think you miss his point. Economic sanctions don’t require the ideological tie to nationhood that is essential for a career soldier.

      I took early retirement from the army, after 28 years, two years ago, precisely because my ideology concerning my country, my Queen, the ‘great British public’ had vanished. I realised, on my third tour to Afghanistan, that I was risking my life, as an instrument of foreign policy, for politicians I despised, my country was no longer mine and increasing swathes of the public were no longer British. My ideological tie to nationhood had become “reactionary” and “xenophobic”.

      Every British soldier makes an oath of allegiance to the Queen. Sadly, what that great lady represents, something that men and women are prepared to fight and die for, is being given away.

      • Andy

        Thou art a good and faithful servant of our Sovereign Lady and some of us value the service you have rendered to Her Majesty and to we her people. God bless you Sir.

        • sfin

          Your servant Sir.

    • global city

      The EU is an enemy State.

    • Chris Bond

      Actually Russia economy is benefiting from the oil and gas price increase. The stock market drop is irrelevant.
      Without military strength, you are nothing. And there will be no economic sanctions. That’s fantasy. Please come into the real world.

      • Thoughtful Skeptic

        One could maybe claim that the economic hit is not all that disastrous, but to claim Russia actually gains from this crises economically is delusional.

  • The Laughing Cavalier

    As they prepare to go over the top the EU Nomenklatura will be bawling to the troops “Follow me boys, I’m right behind you”

    • allymax bruce

      EU are feart.

  • allymax bruce

    Neil Clark did an interesting article on RT yesterday; ‘Unelected power: Democracy on the retreat in Europe’.
    You should check it out, Ed.

  • RationalSpeculation

    The West has remembered to speak softly but has rather forgotten the big stick.

    • Trapnel

      The West has made a fetish of diplomacy and will pay the price.

  • Pootles

    The last European Army that fought and died for something that it thought was a ‘New Europe’ was, of course, the Waffen SS. By 1944, of the nearly one million in the Waffen SS, over half were from countries other than Germany. Plenty of Ukrainians too, although the ‘Greater Russians’ were to be found not in the Waffen SS, but the ‘POA’ – the Free Russia Army. In fact, more tha 10% of the German Army’s fighting strength on the Eastern Front came in the form of Russians and related types. Perhaps the EU sees all that as a model……

  • ItinerantView

    The multiculturalisation of European armies could have a profound impact, on where and when they can be deployed.
    In France they’ve already had a mutiny aboard the Foch aircraft carrier,soldiers refusing to serve in certain countries on ‘religious grounds’ and various European countries, are having to increase surveillance of their own troops !

  • White Wednesday

    Not one? What, not even Guy Verhofstadt ? Or Martin Schulz?

    I think they and other moguls in Brussels should demonstrate their virtue by arming themselves with some platitudes and marching off to war with Russia.

    I’m sure we’ll all be immensely grateful when they lay down their lives.

    • post_x_it

      What about the Nobel peace prize though? They earned it by sitting peacefully in their offices. Wouldn’t want to disturb that peace.

  • NedMissingTeeth

    I doubt the leaking of the UK’s planned lack of action was unintentional.

    • James Strong

      Absolutely right. This is not the first time a document has been photograped by journalists in this way. After it happened once there is no excuse for it to happen again.
      If it was a genuine accident then the official should be removed from any sort of responsibility at all.
      But I’m inclined to the view it was deliberate.
      So, should the official be prosecuted for a breach of the Official Secrets Act, or should we look higher to find out who authorised it?
      But ‘accidentally revealed’ ? Unlikely.

      • Tom M

        I agree, what an example of professionalism to give. After the amusingly named Bob Quick was photographed some long time ago holding some terrorist document aloft for all to photograph I thought that he should have been fired. Haven’t they ever heard of a brief case I mused?
        As they clearly haven’t and no one seems care either I can only conclude, as you do, that it is deliberate.

        • GUBU

          If only they were all as security conscious as Oliver Letwin…

  • Staedtler

    Soldiers fight wherever they are told. That’s how that goes. Saying that, though, I don’t think many of the Tory toffers would fight for anything.

  • ADW

    It’s not just the decline in nationalism and the fact that the EU isn’t going to inspire a war against Russia. The soldiers of most NATO countries are used to working time directives, comfortable air conditioned living conditions and not having to take any elf and safety risks. Hence the Dutch stood aside and let the massacres happen in the Balkans. And in Afghanistan the Italians just paid the Taliban not to shoot at them, leading to the deaths of many French who replaced them, since they hadn’t been told how the Italians were keeping the peace. British special forces are an exception, but even our generally superior armed forces were forbidden from getting stuck into Iraq (with the very notable exception of the SAS) leading to the humiliating failure in Basra. The Royal Navy had its pathetic humiliation at the hands of the Iranians too.

    • Samuel Kaine Wheeler

      I’m sorry, did you just blame the genocide at Srebrenica on health and safety?

      • ADW

        Blame lies with those who carried it out, obviously, but the Dutch might have stopped it had they been prepared to fight like, well, soldiers …

        • Brimstone52

          Perhaps you would do well to consider the orders under which they were operating.

          • ADW

            That’s your excuse? What were the orders?

  • Raimo Kangasniemi

    Probably significantly more than the number of Eton and Harrow boys etc who have died in Britain’s wars during this century.

    • Frank

      Interesting, can you explain your reasoning?

    • ADW

      Wrong! The public schools lost a higher percentage, certainly during the Great War, than the population on average. They used to teach duty and patriotism at Eton and Harrow, no idea if they still do.

      • therealpm

        The Eton crowd in Westminster don’t begin to understand the meaning of duty and patriotism so perhaps the teaching has changed.

    • Jez


    • Ed West

      22% of Old Etonians who fought in WW1 died, I believe the second highest proportion of any school in Britain. In fact all the major public school lost vastly disproportionate numbers, as they dominated the most dangerous ranks. Go to any of those great schools and the memorials will move you to tears.

      • Doggie Roussel

        Why am I not permitted to respond to this comment by Ed West ?

      • Raimo Kangasniemi

        Then we have an answer to the question “What wars are good for?”

  • D Whiggery

    “Ukraine is a European country whose people, at least its western half, wish to be part of the European Union, and whose territory is now occupied by another state.”

    No they want democracy and freedom. If you think this Maidan battle/revolution was about some desire to join the EU then you’ve just contradicted yourself Ed. However, if that were true, ti seems that the only people who would fight for the EU are those who don’t belong to it.

    The Maidan protest was about not being dominated by Russia, it was not a fight to be dominated by the EU, although the EU are spinning it another way of course. Fresh propaganda before the elections does wonders.

    • RobertC

      Maybe they were being advised by the Irish.

  • Jez

    The long term repercussions of this utter debacle will be a millstone around the necks of the current unelected EU mafiosos.

    • RobertC

      It couldn’t have happened to a nicer group of people.

  • la catholic state

    You hit the nail completely on the head Mr West. The EU hates Christendom….and that’s one reason why it hates the new Russia too. All EU leaders would rather ally with Islamist states…..than see old Christendom regroup.

    We should be asking Russia to save us from the EU.

    • MichtyMe

      Don’t know about the EU but was it not always thus, allied with the Islamic Ottoman Empire, as in 1854 Crimea.

      • mightymark

        But hardly by way of ideology or some kind of cultural empathy – that really WAS all about stopping Russian expansion!

    • dw

      Don’t talk too loud — Putin may decide to invade the UK to “rescue you” too.

    • Samuel Kaine Wheeler

      “Old Christendom” at the very latest fell with the Thirty Years War. Personally I’d say it ended once the Valois allied with the Ottomans against the Hapsburgs.

      • Nils

        In the West, yes. Meanwhile in Russia they have restored and reopened 25000 churches since communism. That is 3 a day for a generation.

      • Now and then

        Personally, I think you’re wrong again.

    • Chris Bond

      look up his speech to the Valdai group in September 2013. 11 mins onwards in particular.
      I’d take Vlad over the absolute shower of sh*t rained down upon us.

  • D Whiggery

    “How many people would lay down their lives for the European Union?”

    Hands up……………………………….anyone?

    • Jay_Sands

      Right after the unelected bureaucrats of the EU lay down theirs – I think I’m probably safe saying that.

      • D Whiggery

        As houses.

    • IainRMuir

      I’d gladly fight to protect the EU, or I would if they’d let me out unsupervised.

  • Andrew Parke

    You would have thought the likes of Clegg and Mandelson would. Then again, their ilk probably wouldn’t have the nads to lay down their lives for anything…

    • Frank

      Perhaps they could be called to the colours by Rumpy?

    • post_x_it

      Not likely! What would be the point of their EU pensions if they laid down their lives?

      • Andrew Parke

        Much better to send the proles to die for Greater Europa!

    • Andy

      Greater love hath no Man than his EU Pension. Thanks be to God.

    • saffrin

      Mandy works for a Russian think tank.